The Trump Dossier

Written By: - Date published: 10:30 am, January 12th, 2017 - 176 comments
Categories: International, spin, us politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

My twitter feed has been full of reports of the dossier released yesterday by Buzzfeed detailing Trump’s relationship and interaction with Russia.

My first response and the response of many was “eew”.  But then as further detail emerged the papers, if their contents can be verified, suggest that PEOTUS is completely compromised.

Two matters arise immediately.  The papers have already been with the Security Agencies for months and no doubt are being checked line by line to see if the allegations can be verified.  This process has now started publicly as the Internet adjusts to the information released. And of course the information should be analysed as a matter of priority. As pointed out by Psycho Milt in Open Mike Russia has been implicated in engaging in similar activity against other nations.

It is interesting that elements on the left as well as the right are already claiming that this is evidence of the Establishment trying to get rid of Trump. But if so then you have to ask why the FBI announced publicly that it was reopening its investigation into Hillary Clinton’s emails at the height of the presidential campaign. The campaign was that crazy that nothing can be guaranteed but if this news, fake or otherwise,  of Trump’s involvement with the Russians was announced before voting occurred anything could have happened.

He has had his first news conference since being elected.  And it was a doozie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkuYtfRBtAY

The applause that you hear is coming from rent a crowd Trump Staff members who were at the conference en masse.

What is true? Who knows. Although Trump complaining about fake news is rather rich considering that his campaign appeared to be built on fake news.

The media response to the release of the dossier has been interesting. The Washington Post has criticised Buzzfeed for overstepping the line. The New York Times has also been very circumspect in the way it has handled the issue.  Conventional media does have some bottom lines that the Internet does not.

The news is not all good for Trump. Washington Post’s analysis of the truthfulness of what he said at the conference put him in the pants on fire category.

This story is a slow burner and is going to take months to unwrap.

In comments please be respectful of each other.

176 comments on “The Trump Dossier ”

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  1. Andre 1
    12 January 2017 at 11:01 am

    Even without the dossier, there was plenty of fuel for the fire about Trump’s Russia connections.

    http://www.vox.com/2017/1/11/14232666/trump-russia-allegations

    Suppose for a moment intel comes out that Trump really truly is beholden somehow to Russia. To the point that Trump could reasonably be accused of treason. How should the intel agencies handle it, given they report to the President?

  2. Stunned Mullet 2
    12 January 2017 at 11:16 am

    I invite the fine readers to have a walk through Trumps twitter feed on the issue…

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/819164172781060096

  3. Anno1701 3
    12 January 2017 at 11:41 am

    Classic KGB technique ……

    • Stunned Mullet 3.1
      12 January 2017 at 11:50 am

      What… peeing on each other ?

      • Sabine 3.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 12:03 pm

        nah, getting someone to be very very naughty – and not with the Missus or Mister , filming it and then just you know, blackmail that very very naughty person.
        I would assume that any other agency who wants someone to do their bidding would try the same.
        But then this is a new world, and i expect soon to see such stuff live on TV and be told that he has the greatest, most tremendous and beautiful balls and he knows how to use them.

        as for the rest, fetish is as fetish does and to each their own. Consenting adults and all.

        • Stunned Mullet 3.1.1.1
          12 January 2017 at 12:14 pm

          I’m feeling decidedly old and out of place in this new world you speak of.

          • Sabine 3.1.1.1.1
            12 January 2017 at 1:19 pm

            me i am just happy that i am ‘old’ and i am grateful to nature for not blessing me with children.
            i have had a nice good life, seen lots, loved, laughed, and done lots of stupid shit so i am not feeling screwed over or believe i am missing out.

            i do feel sorry for everyone under thirty tho.

        • Pat 3.1.1.2
          12 January 2017 at 1:25 pm

          as has often been noted the US has a broad puritanical streak and your ce la vie attitude is unlikely to be widely shared there, where I suspect golden showers would be considered akin to devil worship……..blackmail risk aside.

  4. Bill 4
    12 January 2017 at 12:05 pm

    The papers have already been with the Security Agencies for months and no doubt are being checked line by line to see if the allegations can be verified.

    Apparently not micky. It took Greenwald the proverbial two minutes to discover that there was no trip to Prague by (forgetisname).

    And how exactly can anyone verify hear-say?

    The fact that the story was first reported by Mother Jones back in October and that they (and others) had the papers way back then, the question has to be asked “Why now?”. As in, why has it been left sitting and why is it suddenly being given a push? Nothing about the veracity of anything in the claims has changed in the interim, has it?

    I’m going to pick that over coming months (perhaps years) those aligning with the presently beleaguered establishment (across various countries) are going find themselves positioned against people from both the left and the right.

    I think it was Adam who speculated a while back that a parting of the ways may be on the cards for the authoritarian right and the libertarian right. I think he may be correct. And I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest the same split will happen on the left. (It’s already happening)

    That’s going to lead to some interesting alignments and oppositions. We’ve already seen the UK Labour Party work hand in glove with the Tories (independence and BREXIT). Now we’re seeing powerful elements within both the Republican Party and the Democratic Party march in formation (Russia and Trump).

    Outside the structures of power, we’ve already seen cooperation between Assange and Snowden – as far apart on the traditional political spectrum of left and right as you can get.

    The liberal ‘experiment’ is at an end.

    Some from beyond what we’d call ‘the establishment’ (supporters of or believers in both traditional parliamentary left and right) don’t want to accept that, will seek to cleave to it and will be generally supportive of beleaguered liberal expressions of power bidding to re-establish themselves. Which boils down to liberals refusing to step aside in spite of very widespread disillusionment across the English speaking world.

    Interesting times are beckoning and I just sincerely hope it doesn’t get too ugly.

    • Macro 4.1
      12 January 2017 at 12:38 pm

      The papers have already been with the Security Agencies for months and no doubt are being checked line by line to see if the allegations can be verified.

      Apparently not micky.

      I know many here don’t read The Guardian because, you know, “Fake News” but here is an outline of the history of the dossier.
      Including this statement:

      By July, the counter-intelligence contractor had collected a significant amount of material based on Russian sources who he had grown to trust over the years – not just in Moscow, but also among oligarchs living in the west. He delivered his reports, but the gravity of their contents weighed on him. If the allegations were real, their implications were overwhelming.

      He delivered a set to former colleagues in the FBI, whose counter-intelligence division would be the appropriate body to investigate. It is believed he also passed a copy to his own country’s intelligence service, but it felt constrained in what action it could take and left it up to the Americans to do their own investigation and draw their own conclusions.

      • Bill 4.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 12:52 pm

        A guy (Christopher Steele?) speaks to people he knows. They tell him stuff they claim to have overheard and what not.

        And Steele(?) compiles a report,that’s largely based on gossip, alleging a 70+ year old business tycoon with a pissing fetish has business dealings in Russia.

        I can’t be the only one thinking ‘So what?’ – Can I?

        • Clump_AKA Sam 4.1.1.1
          12 January 2017 at 12:57 pm

          We still can’t discount the theory of a shortened Trump term in some way or another. Trump has enemies, even himself. His biggest test will be when trump starts paying off debt, there by taking cash out of the economy. That will be an acid test for deficit spending. And a test of Trumps resolve, the tweets will be hectic

        • Sabine 4.1.1.2
          12 January 2017 at 2:54 pm

          for what its worth, it should be quite easy to follow some of the time lines re allegations and who was where?

          No?

        • Macro 4.1.1.3
          12 January 2017 at 4:56 pm

          a 70+ year old business tycoon with a pissing fetish has business dealings in Russia.

          But that is the whole point! A POTUS with business dealings in Russia is inconsistent with the US Constitution.
          Furthermore we do not know whether or not those dealings – or any of his dealings have been severed. To dump a pile of yellow envelops in front of a crowd of people tells the world nothing! Even if one of his paid henchmen says that it does! Until he releases his tax return and shows the world that he has no dealings with Russia we cannot trust him.
          Furthermore, we know from accounts that the allegations of “naughty” behaviour are not unlikely. From one who has been through Positive Vetting by security and undertaken courses in what to expect with foreign intelligence etc – this sort of thing is standard practice by all security agencies.
          We also know that Trump is on very cordial terms with Russia (his proposed appointment of Tillison as Secretary of State being a case in point)- has had dealings with them on a number of deals – is highly likely to have had millions of dollars in loans from them, which miraculously appeared from Deuche Bank after every bank on Wall St refused to deal with him.( He is well versed in laundering money and his Casino’s have been fined for this behaviour in the past.)
          http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/bill-conroy/2016/10/casino-owned-presidential-candidate-donald-trump-violated-us-anti-money

          • D'Esterre 4.1.1.3.1
            13 January 2017 at 12:35 am

            Macro: “A POTUS with business dealings in Russia is inconsistent with the US Constitution.”
            Say what? Would you say the same, were his business dealings with France? Russia is a democracy, and has been since the fall of communism. Best to stop seeing reds under the bed: those days are gone. Polities spy on each other: nothing singular about Russia in that regard. This polity is part of five eyes, remember.

            • Macro 4.1.1.3.1.1
              18 January 2017 at 4:56 pm

              “Say what? Would you say the same, were his business dealings with France? ”
              🙄

              Of course you nincompoop!

              Read the constitution!

              No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

              my bold
              Obviously the chump hasn’t! Or thinks he can weasel his way around it. No emolument* or what ever from any foreign power.
              This has been a concern for many in the Congress for some time..
              https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/politics/donald-trump-conflict-of-interest.html?_r=0

              *emolument: a salary, fee, or profit from employment or office.

    • D'Esterre 4.2
      13 January 2017 at 1:12 am

      Bill: “there was no trip to Prague by (forgetisname).”
      That Cohen fellow, wasn’t it?
      Yes indeed,I’m amazed that anyone at all takes this story seriously. We’ve heard it all before – or versions of it.
      The theory in this household as to why this stuff wasn’t released during the election campaign is that it was seen as being so weak. And at that stage, Clinton was seen as a shoo-in, so Trump’s opponents didn’t feel desperate enough to use it. Now he’s won, and this is a last desperate roll of the dice. If he can be white-anted now, it’ll crimp his ability to radically reset US foreign policy anent Russia in particular. After all these years, I think that the anti-Russia schtick is just risible. Just goes to show that there are as many idiots among the neocon Washington Establishment as there are among the great unwashed. More, even….

  5. Sabine 5
    12 January 2017 at 12:11 pm

    BBC – you know that fake news source with a bias and such

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyFTRVvhM5M

    and then the Wall Street – clutch yer pearls and pass the smelling salt Wall Street!! Journal seems to name the source, but hey that may too be fake news and such

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/christopher-steele-ex-british-intelligence-officer-said-to-have-prepared-dossier-on-trump-1484162553

    for mineself i don’t actually care about the current news about the orange turd. He was one of those Celebrities that was always in the tabloids in Germany for some reason – we have some really strange taste when it comes to ‘Celebrities’ and he never came across once as a human being that would fall under the category of ‘decent’.
    And the last year has him shown and filmed to be just simply a tosser of epic proportions, and for what its worth a compulsive liar that will say something one minute and deny it the next.
    but hey, he will make America Great Again, burn down Wall Street – at least the part that does not pay fealty to him, and cure all the ills of the world, and build a beautiful wall to keep people out, just like they did in East Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_German_border and in North Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Demilitarized_Zone
    and Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier.

    Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya 🙂
    Yeah, right Tui.

  6. Brutus Iscariot 6
    12 January 2017 at 12:52 pm

    Anyone who reads with a critical eye will realise that the report could have been written by anyone. Plenty of “Senior Russian official told me this” but nothing of substance.

    In fact it turns out that some of the more salacious content (golden shower) was in fact a planted 4Chan troll. The fact that the CIA chose to republish this shows how dismal their competence has become.

    The “golden shower” meme dates back to 2011 as you’ll see below:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJI-UeF6HDc

    Here’s the 4chan revelation.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-10/4chan-claims-have-fabricated-anti-trump-report-hoax

  7. Brutus Iscariot 7
    12 January 2017 at 1:01 pm

    There are another two major cases to answer:

    – the plausability of Russia “cultivating” Trump for 5-8 years is a ridiculous concept and not one that would have made to the desk of anyone with influence. Even up to one year ago the prospect of a Trump Presidency was absurd and not something any credible organisation would waste time/face on – let alone 5 years ago when he was a reality Tv show host. Almost like the Russian government resolving now to make Rhys Darby Prime Minister of NZ in 2023.

    – why would Russia, knowing that a Clinton presidency was the overwhelming likelihood (especially after “*****-gate”, go “all-in” for Trump when he was down by 10 points in the polls – and therefore risk massive retaliation once Clinton was inaugurated?

    • Sabine 7.1
      12 January 2017 at 3:02 pm

      why?

      Donald Trump tried to meet the Russian Leader in the 80’s. That is public record

      http://time.com/4437403/trump-gorbachev-history/

      and Donald Trump on nuclear weapons and working with other Nations 🙂 also in the 1980’s

      http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_spectator/2016/03/trump_s_nuclear_experience_advice_for_reagan_in_1987.html

      there is one thing that people underestimate when it comes to the russians. they are very very patient people, it is by all means and intend a totalitarian regime, and everyone might be ‘needed’ at some stage in the future, thus it is practical to have information everywhere from everyone.
      One might want to read up on the Stasi and its ‘informal informants’. A great deal of information was gathered, typed up and then stored, not to immedialty black mail people but for convenient use.

      https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/kompromat-trump-dossier/512891/

      But well, new world. It’s a brave new world.

      • reason 7.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 11:02 pm

        …. And one could read up or learn about the CIA and media ……”if you want to take history seriously “… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kws4Gy4okRc 13.40 min mark interesting

        It has all the hall marks of a russian operation ….. or a cia false flag one . Given the impossibility of telling I look at motive.

        American political ties and influence ,,,,, ” military aid to the Death Squads “mushroomed from $82 million in 1982 to $196 million in 1984—with total U.S. aid reaching $2 million per day— http://politicalhotwire.com/world-history/4229-us-imperialism-el-salvador.html

        We do trade deals with the worst modern remnants of successful mass murderer ….. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxpFSRLq4vE ….. they are still killing with impunity…… and looting their people via John Key style tax laws

        Back directly on topic and specific to the Don ‘leak’ ………..Perhaps Trump turning off the tap arming Fascists and Jihad ….. has resulted in this first soft shot at him.

      • D'Esterre 7.1.2
        14 January 2017 at 4:09 pm

        Sabine: “there is one thing that people underestimate when it comes to the russians. they are very very patient people…”

        Generalisations of this sort contribute nothing useful to the debate. Russians are just people like the rest of us, for all that they have a distinctive culture. They certainly haven’t forgotten the lessons of WW2: something Europeans – Germans in particular – would do well to remember. There was almost no Russian family unaffected by the terrible death toll in that war. This household is only too well aware of that.

        “…. it is by all means and intend a totalitarian regime…”

        It is not. Russia is a democracy, and has been since the fall of communism in 1991. In many respects, it is a more vigorous democracy than that which we have here, for instance.

        Putin almost singlehandedly rescued the Russian economy from the depredations of that old lush Yeltsin and the US neoliberals during the 1990s. There’s plenty of opposition to him, which is obvious if you read Russian media. But also plenty of support; which is why he and his party keep being re-elected.

        “One might want to read up on the Stasi and its ‘informal informants’.”

        It’s not all clear what the Stasi has to do with anything in this context. That organisation was a peculiarly German entity, staffed by Germans and operating in the GDR. It took surveillance, information-gathering and snooping on its own citizens to a level far surpassing anything done elsewhere in the old Soviet Union. Of course, the Germans of the GDR had a good model on which to draw, in the form of the old Gestapo.

        It’s a source of wry amusement in this household that US citizens – particularly but not exclusively Republicans – shriek about the perils of socialism, yet the surveillance by NSA of US society has reached a level of intrusiveness which would make the old Communist Stasi proud.

        I read that Slate article to which you linked; Trump had a point about a deal as a means to prevent nuclear proliferation. Nothing else has worked thus far. Though it’s probably too late now.

    • rhinocrates 7.2
      12 January 2017 at 7:58 pm

      the plausability of Russia “cultivating” Trump for 5-8 years is a ridiculous concept and not one that would have made to the desk of anyone with influence.

      Nope. Remember the old Russia, the old Soviet Union and the new Russia have done this literally on an industrial scale right back to the Tsars. Putin would be the last person to dismantle that apparatus.

      They may not have been expecting the Orangegropenfuhrer to go into politics, but if he was in Moscow trying to make deals worth billions, well its inevitable that they’d want leverage.

      Blackmail 101:

      the FSB kompromat operation is akin to a trawler, gathering anything and everything in its path, just in case anything good is down there. Or it puts chum in the water, and gathers the baited fish, too. It then stores it away for when the Kremlin needs just a slightly more forceful argument. I have no doubt that most every journalist and diplomat who has worked in Russia has such a file in his or her name, just waiting to be put to good use.

      https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/kompromat-trump-dossier/512891/

      Whether or not this dossier is genuine, this article is a good guide to the principles.

      [EDIT] oh, snap. Ha ha.

      • emergency mike 7.2.1
        13 January 2017 at 12:57 am

        Agreed. Once you’ve got the dirt on someone, you’ve got it for good. Assets don’t need to be constantly maintained, just activated at the right time. You collect as many assets as you can. Then you have options at your disposal, cards that can be played, but not before time. Basic spy stuff been going on for a while.

  8. Ad 8
    12 January 2017 at 1:12 pm

    Good to see the intelligence community being even handed.
    A good measure to start the term off with.

    • Clump_AKA Sam 8.1
      12 January 2017 at 3:11 pm

      I’m still wondering when some one will actually end up in court after 1/2/3 or 4 trillion dollars later on all this junk information. Theres so much there for a conservative to cut spending. That’s if you want to muck around and release fake news to fake media. This is going to be sweet. The CIA is in active revolt.

      • Ad 8.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 3:40 pm

        The more the CIA and upcoming President Trump antagonise each other, the higher the likelihood that he will do a major reform of all intelligence services.
        That would be a job worth doing, if Trump has the organisational capacity to see that scale of security cuts through House budget appropriations. Which so far I doubt.

        • Clump_AKA Sam 8.1.1.1
          12 January 2017 at 3:46 pm

          Some how I think it won’t be his idea so when it’s floated we might see more cracks appear, we already are seeing cracks

  9. Pat 9
    12 January 2017 at 1:14 pm

    – the plausability of Russia “cultivating” Trump for 5-8 years is a ridiculous concept and not one that would have made to the desk of anyone with influence. Even up to one year ago the prospect of a Trump Presidency was absurd and not something any credible organisation would waste time/face on – let alone 5 years ago when he was a reality Tv show host. Almost like the Russian government resolving now to make Rhys Darby Prime Minister of NZ in 2023.

    except as a wealthy(?) foreigner with potential influence it would be highly probable the FSB would seek to gain influence over him irrespective of political ambitions.recruiting and honey potting are hardly new techniques deployed on persons who may be of use.

    “– why would Russia, knowing that a Clinton presidency was the overwhelming likelihood (especially after “*****-gate”, go “all-in” for Trump when he was down by 10 points in the polls – and therefore risk massive retaliation once Clinton was inaugurated?”

    what retaliation? If Clinton had won the Kremlin would be treated with the same suspicion as always,…nothing to lose there.

  10. Cemetery Jones 10
    12 January 2017 at 1:50 pm

    From the dossier:

    ’22. In 2009, Trump went to the bathroom in his Moscow hotel. Once in the bathroom, he yelled out, “I hate black people!” then proceeded to relieve himself in the toilet. After he was finished, he reportedly said, “I take the biggest dumps, nobody takes bigger dumps than me, believe me” and followed with, “Y’know what I refer to my poop as – an Obama, because he’s shit, he sucks, and he was born in Kenya’

    I can understand how, though senility, vengeance, and wishful thinking John McCain might have fallen for it; I can understand how Evan McMullin may have not fallen for it, but passed it on to his CIA buddies in the hope of doing some damage; I can understand how CNN might be dim witted enough in combination with vengeance and wishful thinking to have fallen for it. But Buzzfeed falling for it? I’m kinda stunned.

    Anyone for chicken tenders?

    • billmurray 10.1
      12 January 2017 at 8:40 pm

      Cementary Jones,
      I have never heard of buzzfeed before tonight so cannot comment.
      CNN have made dreadful mistake in drumming up the story, heads should roll, apology’s offered or they will get rolled.
      Fake news is all the rage in the American MSM and already competitors are throwing barbs.
      John McCain is a war-monger, nothing else.

      • Clump_AKA Sam 10.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 9:34 pm

        Don’t get destracted. As Clump once said. A spook is a lier standing next to a hole

      • Cemetery Jones 10.1.2
        13 January 2017 at 10:49 am

        McCain is indeed an incorrigible warmonger, and I therefore find it hard to suspect anyone he vehemently opposes as being one themselves.

        • Clump_AKA Sam 10.1.2.1
          13 January 2017 at 11:02 am

          And Clinton news network (CNN) let the cat out the bagman. Remember Obama singed a bill that gives US media free rain to fight propaganda and by that I mean radicalise US citizens with there own tax payer money. Iv never seen a more ugly beast in my life. It’s going to take one hell of an effort to tame it.

  11. Ad 11
    12 January 2017 at 1:55 pm

    Today, Trump’s Transportation Secretary choice Elaine Chao breezes through another challenge-free hearings process to take up her role … while married to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

    Trump’s gonna drain the swamp, yeah right.

    • Morrissey 11.1
      12 January 2017 at 2:27 pm

      Shouldn’t you be simply endorsing him, like you did Obama yesterday?

      As horrible as Trump is, he has not ordered a single death in Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria or Iraq, nor has he insulted the world with the most appalling method acting since Clint Eastwood attempted to tear up In the Line of Fire. [1]

      Surely you should be displaying the same unquestioning loyalty to the president-elect that you have displayed to his blood-stained predecessor? [2]

      [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGZTFg8PP9Q
      [2] https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-11012017/#comment-1285612

      • Ad 11.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 2:41 pm

        Trump hasn’t started yet so he can’t order anything yet you moron.

        If you think Obama was “bloodstained”, you might want to do a relative body count for every other US President. The President of the USA ain’t ever going to be the Shaker zealot you’d like.

        But go ahead, keep going.

        • Morrissey 11.1.1.1
          12 January 2017 at 2:53 pm

          Trump hasn’t started yet so he can’t order anything yet you moron.

          Exactly. So the score is presently: Obama several thousand, Trump nil.

          If you think Obama was “bloodstained”…

          It’s not a matter of what I think, it’s a matter of public record. Maybe you need to read about what presidents actually do, rather than just luxuriating in their sonorous oratory. This would be a good start for you….

          http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/01/11/obama-the-war-criminal-butcherer-of-women-and-children/

          You know, all your desperate name-calling can’t cover up your foolish declarations of devotion for the Dear Leader yesterday.

          The President of the USA ain’t ever going to be the Shaker zealot you’d like.

          I don’t want a Shaker zealot. The nearest thing to that we’ve had in the White House was Nixon, who came from a Quaker family. All I want is a president who has the moral fortitude to stop the United States committing crimes in Europe, Africa, the Middle East, Central and South America, Asia.

          Perhaps you need to take a break from hastily typing up fanboy adulation of politicians and do some reading. Is there a library near you?

          • Sabine 11.1.1.1.1
            12 January 2017 at 3:04 pm

            i sincerely would suggest that women and children be left out of this pissing match of whom is going to be a bigger butcher.

            i think we can unequivocally say that men on the left as much of the right or the centre don’t give a flying fuck about the wellbeing of women and children.
            Neither in domestic politics nor in foreign politics.

            • Morrissey 11.1.1.1.1.1
              12 January 2017 at 3:06 pm

              Fair comment, Sabine. Let’s hope Trump’s body-count stays at zero.

              By the way, I wonder if Trump will bother with faking tears like Hopey-Changey does.

              • Sabine …
                12 January 2017 at 3:12 pm

                no Trump will allow the Republicans to defund Planned Parenthood cause abortion is icky, never mind the cancer screening,screening for sexual transmitted diseases and all the other stuff that many men consider womens stuff.

                Trump will allow the Republicans to defund Food Stams or Snap, taking food out of the mouth of babes, but then grown man are not babes so its all good.

                Trump will allow the Republicans to cancel the Afordable Care Act, thus depriving people with pre-existing conditions, or children or or or somewhat affordable Health Insurance, but hey who cares…a lot of men that work full time to get health care via their jobs (women are the largest group to work in temp/lowincome/no benefits jobs) so i guess its all good.

                and so on and so on..

                btw, you can take your hopey changey cause he is out of a job. Your man won. Rejoice.

                So again, don’t try to pretend that in your pissing match women have an iota of importance cause they don’t.

                • Morrissey …
                  12 January 2017 at 3:25 pm

                  Your man won. Rejoice.

                  You think I’m a Trump supporter?!!???!?

                  I don’t think English is your first language, is it?

                  • Sabine …
                    12 January 2017 at 3:29 pm

                    no it is not.

                    and yes, you do come across as someone who is in support of the man. of maybe your english is not good enough and clear enough to be understood by someone who speaks four languages.

                    • Morrissey …
                      12 January 2017 at 3:37 pm

                      and yes, you do come across as someone who is in support of the man.

                      That’s possibly the most outlandishly stupid thing anyone has written on this forum this year. So, according to your impeccable logic, despising one shallow and nasty politician (Obama) means one supports another shallow and nasty politician (Trump).

                      of [sic] maybe your english is not good enough and clear enough to be understood by someone who speaks four languages.

                      Do you have an equally tenuous grasp of those other languages? People you interact with must get very frustrated.

                      [Morrisey Sabine’s English is fine. Take a chill pill – MS]

                  • Ad …
                    12 January 2017 at 3:42 pm

                    Morrisey, do yourself a favour and stop attacking women and stop attacking people who don’t have English as a first language. You just look like a prick.

                    • Morrissey …
                      12 January 2017 at 6:00 pm

                      Morrisey, do yourself a favour and stop attacking women

                      So a person can say anything she wants—like calling me a Trump supporter, for pity’s sake!—and she is immune from criticism, because she is a woman?!?

                      …and stop attacking people who don’t have English as a first language.

                      I don’t attack people who don’t have English as a first language, I attack people who tell lies or write nonsense like she did.

                      You just look like a prick.

                      That would be true if that was indeed what I had done.

                  • Sabine …
                    12 January 2017 at 3:49 pm

                    mate, i don’t care about Obama. I don’t consider him one iota better or worth then Reagan, Bush1, Clinton, Bush2 and the orange turd will be in the same boat.
                    the orange turd will like they guys before him have no issue fucking any place of the world over if it gives him an advantage.

                    the difference between me and you is simple that I don’t believe that Obama was the worst of the lot, nor the best. they are all the same. literally.

                    so as i argued before the election, most people can’t do much of their countries foreign policy, so they should concentrate on how their elected representatives would work domestically and for what its worth, very much like in NZ the left – Democrats – Labour are on any given bad day still light years ahead of the right – Republicans -National.

                    so now go and congratulate yourself on how good your english is. 🙂 you earned an A+ surely

                    • Spikeyboy …
                      12 January 2017 at 4:55 pm

                      I think you might find that some of the people in the countries Morrisey was talking about may have differing views wrt the importance of domestic vs forieng policy when it comes to usa. Your stated view is very safe white western and borders on racism ie slaughtered people in third world countries don’t count?

                    • Sabine …
                      12 January 2017 at 5:21 pm

                      @spikeyboy

                      firstly: thanks for calling me a racist, i feel mighty white now. Aryan really, my Grandmother still has the booklet to prove that indeed my family was white and Aryan.

                      now that we have that gotten out of the way, let me address the rest of your comment.

                      i, as a voter, have very little influence on people that are running things.
                      I, get to pay taxes and hopefully my elected representatives don’t go around squandering that on some stupid shit.
                      i, get to choose ever few years among a selection of usually self absorbed people who believe they are the shiznit.
                      I, then can make a choice on what they have on offer.
                      No i, as a female, have some interests that are very particular to my gender, you know safety at home, access to healthcare, good schools for the children, good hospitals should i give birth you know that sort of thing that a great many men don’t really think about cause it affects them differently.
                      I can then check all the other stuff that is important to me.

                      then i realise they are all full of shite, and some are shiter then others, and I then will try to vote for the one who is least full of shite.

                      and yes, mate, by virtue of being born into Germany to german parents i am white.
                      I agree this is very mighty white of me.
                      and now i am bored.

                      oh, and no-ones vote in their home country has ever stopped our politicians from going to war.

                      case in point John Fucking Key sending troops to Iraq.

                    • UncookedSelachimorpha …
                      12 January 2017 at 5:22 pm

                      Actually, your English is better than that of many native speakers.

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      12 January 2017 at 6:45 pm

                      True dat. Many NZers can’t speak even one language properly.

          • Ad 11.1.1.1.2
            12 January 2017 at 3:13 pm

            I’m perfectly clear-eyed about the sins of all past US Presidents.
            You should simply do more than spew condemnation at one, and look at them all dispassionately.

            No sign so far shows that this upcoming president will be any good.
            If there is, I’m all ears.

            If you were able evaluate all presidents, rather than being blinded by rage at the current one, you would see that.

            • Morrissey 11.1.1.1.2.1
              12 January 2017 at 3:18 pm

              Good, Ad, I’m glad to know that you recognize they are ALL criminals. I’m not “blinded by rage” at Obama, either. I was appalled by his inflammatory and insincere speech yesterday, but I’ve been appalled by his behaviour almost from the first time I saw him posturing in front of hysterical fans.

              I don’t think Obama’s all bad, by any means. I recognize that he is a complex and intelligent person, and he’s managed to stay in power for eight years, which I seriously doubt Gropey-Attackey will be able to do.

              • Ad …
                12 January 2017 at 3:50 pm

                There are plenty of sites that show all the evaluative criteria for ranking Presidents of the USA. I did an entire post just on the New Zealand PMs.

                So do more than vent at one President. Maybe really stretch your intellectual legs, stop simply quoting other people, and start writing on where Obama sits in the good and the bad of Presidents.

  12. joe90 12
    12 January 2017 at 2:50 pm

    hmm….

    House Intel Committee voted to allow ALL House members access to classified hacking report, briefing by CIA, FBI, DNI, NSA chiefs on Friday— Deirdre Walsh (@deirdrewalshcnn) January 11, 2017

    https://twitter.com/deirdrewalshcnn/status/819277477747036160

  13. Nic the NZer 13
    12 January 2017 at 3:05 pm

    “This story is a slow burner and is going to take months to unwrap.”

    CV has not even bothered to comment on this, I suspect its more like one of those fireworks where the fuse burns the full way down and then nothing else happens!

  14. Adrian 14
    12 January 2017 at 3:06 pm

    Trump has been married to two women who grew up under systems overseen by the KGB, in Czechoslovakia the StB and Yugoslavia the KOS.
    They were both quite prominent young women able to emigrate to the west which was unusual then unless some kind of fealty was paid to the relevant authorities .
    Were they ” owned” ?
    I wouldn’t be at all surprised.

    • Sabine 15.1
      12 January 2017 at 3:59 pm

      how are you gonna live something down like that? i mean what the heck are his children thinking? Seriously what were they thinking?
      they had a nice comfortable life in a golden pleated tower not a worry in sight and now they have to live that?

      One almost has pity with them.

      • Cemetery Jones 15.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 4:36 pm

        Well given that it’s now looking a dead cert for fake news, it’s probably just going to convince them that the intelligence community really, really wanted that new Cold War which Trump’s victory has effectively cancelled. Oh, the CIA budgets that might have been…

      • Andre 15.1.2
        12 January 2017 at 5:07 pm

        Dunno, depends on what they’re into. They might just think it’s embarrassingly tame old-school. Never underestimate the inventiveness of bored rich kids.

        • Sabine 15.1.2.1
          12 January 2017 at 5:13 pm

          seriously? while they might be the presnits offspring, they are also the most ridiculed and despised people of the planet.
          Granted they all live in the same golden tower, but ouch that sort of stuff must have an effect on them.

          • Andre 15.1.2.1.1
            12 January 2017 at 5:19 pm

            I really doubt they feel it. The strength of the bubble around people like that is quite surprising.

  16. Anno1701 16
    12 January 2017 at 3:45 pm

    Trolling the “leader of the free world”

    i salute you freaks of 4chan !!!

  17. Cricklewood 17
    12 January 2017 at 4:55 pm

    4chan is one greasy corner of the internet, but you cant help but admire thier ability to troll people on an international scale…

    • Blackcap 17.1
      12 January 2017 at 5:32 pm

      All this does though is strengthen Trump’s position. When some “real” non fake news does come out it will be so much easier for him to palm it off as fake and ppl will believe that because there is so much fake out there. Oh well.

  18. UncookedSelachimorpha 18
    12 January 2017 at 5:38 pm

    Have there been any polls on Trump’s level of support to date? I am wondering if some of those who voted for him might be having second thoughts at this early stage.

    For a related laugh:

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/come-back-when-he-shags-a-dead-pig-say-jaded-brits-20170111120020

  19. Rob Gilchrist 19
    12 January 2017 at 5:49 pm

    Like I said in the other post. It’s not an intelligence report. It’s not even close to being one. It’s a fake, and a really bad one at that. However that doesn’t mean Intel agencies won’t take any notice of it. . They’ll go over it with a fine tooth comb, that’s their job. But the report itself isn’t credible IMHO.

    • Clump_AKA Sam 19.1
      12 January 2017 at 5:57 pm

      I hope I’m saying this right. I wonder how far down the chain of command this job got kicked to. The phrase really scraping the bottom of the barrel now springs to mind. The cracks are so obvious. They’re in revolution mode

      • Sabine 19.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 6:28 pm

        well for what its worth, the only reason it is now out is because everyone got briefed on it. True or not, they did their job.

        it might just be a case of this
        Once upon a time – or legend has it that LBJ wanted to spread a rumor about his opponent in a Texas election that his opponent liked to have sex with barnyard animals. One of LBJ’s aides said, “We can’t prove he’s a pig f—-r.”

        “I know that,” replied Johnson. “I just want to hear him deny it.”

        🙂

      • billmurray 19.1.2
        12 January 2017 at 8:18 pm

        Clump_AKA Sam, 5.57pm
        I believe you are 100% right in your opinion.

        • Clump_AKA Sam 19.1.2.1
          12 January 2017 at 9:18 pm

          It’s ironic trump would call something designed for direct consumption of American theatre embarrassing. There’s no intelligent design. The only barrier to a virus of secular nationalism is radicalism. The US and Britain have been strongly supporting radical Islam so one irony replaces another. That remains true if you look at any report filed by intelligence service. I wouldn’t fuck around with Trump like that, he’ll put you on ghetto blast in MTV then the first rule of spying is broken. Don’t get caught.

          The Saudis for example is given free rein with no talk of no fly zones. There is push back against the air strikes in Saudi but the police state there is so extensive every one scatters, but not in America, every one hoards around the funny lights. These are rich oil states with dictators so there for they can do what ever they like. You can generalise this to Bahrain/Syria/Kuwait or any other oil state. Like I keep saying. There are only so many tools of oppression so they all hit on the same ones, because they don’t want to go to court and be caught out lying. This is a missionary effort to spread radicalism.

          Show them the wizard of oz behind the curtain and it stops being a threat

    • Psycho Milt 19.2
      12 January 2017 at 6:43 pm

      Like I said in the other post. It’s not an intelligence report. It’s not even close to being one.

      Well, duh. It’s oppo research by Trump’s opponents in the primaries and then the presidential campaign. The fact that it was handed to intelligence services doesn’t make it an intelligence report and I’m not aware anyone’s claimed otherwise. Oppo research tends not to be fake though, because the people who do the research like to continue earning a living.

  21. Sacha 21
    12 January 2017 at 6:30 pm

    The significant stuff in the documents is nothing to do with piss, though it’s understandable that the side show gets the early attention. #snigger

    The BBC describes how late last year a joint US govt agency taskforce sought FISA spying warrants over some of the alleged financial dealings with people attached to Trump:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427

    This is the investigation Senate Democrat leader Harry Reid was angrily accusing the FBI of keeping secret during the election campaign.

    In the letter to the FBI director, James Comey, Mr Reid said: “In my communications with you and other top officials in the national security community, it has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and co-ordination between Donald Trump, his top advisers, and the Russian government – a foreign interest openly hostile to the United States, which Mr Trump praises at every opportunity.

    “The public has a right to know this information. I wrote to you months ago calling for this information to be released to the public. There is no danger to American interests from releasing it. And yet, you continue to resist calls to inform the public of this critical information.”

    • Carolyn_nth 21.1
      12 January 2017 at 7:07 pm

      though it’s understandable that the side show gets the early attention.

      But didn’t the golden stuff come fairly early in the Buzz Feed dossier? Almost as if they wanted it to get massive media/public attention.

      The BBC piece mentions more than one compromising video of Trump doing sexual activities – and coming from a different source than the guy who compiled the Buzzfeed dossier. Basically that the Russians were trying to set up Trump to blackmail him into promoting their interests.

      Didn’t that Buzzfeed dossier also say that Trump didn’t have a lot of business dealings in Russia, but that he liked putting focus on his Russian dealings to distract from his more substantial business operations in China?

      • Sacha 21.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 8:03 pm

        The documents also record that the Russian govt agencies realised they did not need to use their blackmail material due to how keenly Trump was already grabbing his ankles.

  22. exkiwiforces 22
    12 January 2017 at 6:38 pm

    Ah, the good old honey trap it was a old KGB party tick back in the days and I wouldn’t be surprise if the FSB have use it on old Crump as a insurance policy. So I think there is some element of truth in this.

    This like reading an good old spy novel.

  23. Rob Gilchrist 23
    12 January 2017 at 6:46 pm

    I’m rather confident that document is fake. I’m no Trump fan but the story on the report says something like it’s from a former Brit Spy – D I doesn’t say who he worked for but I guess MI6.

    After looking over the docs, it’s nothing like any Intel Report I’ve even seen. And I’ve seen a written a few.

    I don’t have time to pull it to bits, but will if enough people want it, but here’s my brief summary:

    The document isn’t laid out anything like a Intel Report, or even a gist report. So the format is the main thing that leads me to believe it’s fake.

    Now, what would this guy know I hear you ask… Well as our Intelligence services are based on MI6 MI6 and most other police or military. Our agencies follow very similar protocols and procedures… Including the way Intel reports, Gist reports etc are written. So NZ Intel reports are based in format / layout on the UK Intel Reports.

    This doc looks nothing like a genuine Intel report written by a person who should know what one not only looks like, but how it should be formatted.

    So, the format is just wrong, although it looks like they (the writers tried however) Them comes the content. It’s not written in a way that someone trained to write these reports would do. It’s shit, really. Like I said. I’m willing to go through it bit by bit and show you the mistakes, incorrect use of terms, lack of using real terms. Making comments wrapped in ()

    So, I don’t think this is a silver bullet. It’s fake, obviously written by people who knew enough to put the content together, and leak it. I’m not going to answer who I think it is. But the way things are sharpening up, this won’t be the last one of these.

    Again, if people want a full synopsis of the leaked report and why I think it’s fake, just ask and I’ll go through it bit by bit.

    Rob Gilchrist

    • Sacha 23.1
      12 January 2017 at 8:06 pm

      Apparently major media organisations, the US intel agencies and even John McCain do not share your skepticism enough to not investigate at least.

  24. Andre 24
    12 January 2017 at 6:55 pm

    Wonder if this dossier contributed to senators getting tougher on Tillerson?

    http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/11/14238818/rex-tillerson-senate-confirmation-hearing-russia

    • billmurray 24.1
      12 January 2017 at 8:26 pm

      Andre,
      watched most of the Tillerson grilling, like or lump Trump, I believe that Tillerson will be an asset to him and America.

  25. Rob Gilchrist 25
    12 January 2017 at 6:59 pm

    DAMN IT. I TRIED TO EDIT THE ABOVE TO MAKE IT MORE READABLE BUT IT WOULDN’T LET ME. IGNORE THE ABOVE AND I’LL REPOST AN EDITED VERSION THAT READS BETTER

  26. repateet 26
    12 January 2017 at 7:00 pm

    When Trump talked bullshit it was fine. Some though said tolerating it was diminishing ‘the system.’

    When Key talked bullshit it was fine. Some though said tolerating it was diminishing ‘the system.’

    When Collins talked bullshit it was fine. Some though said tolerating it was diminishing ‘the system.’

    What is it with people in New Zealand getting all precious about ‘the system’ being shot and with the credibility of it gone the potential is for there to be chaos?

    They crapped in our nest, we have to live with it.

  27. Rob Gilchrist 27
    12 January 2017 at 7:12 pm

    I’m rather confident that document is fake. I’m no Trump fan but the story on the report says something like it’s from a former Brit Spy Chris Steele. Steele is a real former MI6 spook.

    After quickly looking over the doc, it’s nothing like any Intel Report I’ve even seen. And I’ve seen a few and written a few.

    I don’t have time to pull it to bits, but will if enough people want it, but here’s my brief summary:

    The document isn’t laid out anything like a Intel Report, or even a GIST report. So the format is initially the main thing that leads me to believe it’s fake.

    Now, what would this guy know I hear you ask… Well as our Intelligence services are based on MI5, MI6 and most other police or military agencies worldwide. The US does things a little different but as it’s been said it’s meant to have come from a Brit. NZ agencies follow very similar protocols and procedures… (not Just in report writing but in lots of other things as well) So NZ Intel reports are based on formats / layouts on the UK and international Intel Reports. This thing does not.

    This doc looks nothing like a genuine Intel report written by a person who should know what one not only looks like, but how it should be formatted.

    So, the format is just wrong, although it looks like they (the writers) tried, they failed.

    Then comes the content. It’s not written in a way that someone trained to write these reports would do. It’s shit, really. Like I said. I’m willing to go through it bit by bit and show you the mistakes, incorrect use of terms, lack of using real terms. Making comments wrapped in () as the ‘report’ does.

    So, I don’t think this is a silver bullet. It’s fake, obviously written by people who knew enough to put some half arsed content together, and leak it. But the way things are shaping up, this won’t be the last one of these.

    Again, if people want a full synopsis of the leaked report and why I think it’s fake, just ask and I’ll go through it bit by bit.

    Rob Gilchrist

    • Sacha 27.1
      12 January 2017 at 8:11 pm

      The private company Steele heads is mainly providing corporate rather than state intel services apparently. The idea of an exec summary is well-entrenched in that culture, so maybe he has had to adapt?

      • Rob Gilchrist 27.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 8:24 pm

        Possible bit I still don’t see why they would drop something like a report format that’s been tried and tested. I’ve been involved in some corporate intelligence work recently and although a few things are modified, most of what I’ve seen is still easily identified as a result of following the format used

    • Sacha 27.2
      12 January 2017 at 8:12 pm

      Question for us non-spooks: what’s a GIST report?

      • Rob Gilchrist 27.2.1
        12 January 2017 at 8:20 pm

        A GIST report is basically a summary of something else, be it an update on a specific project or operation, or of another report etc.

        So say if someone is on the periphery of an operation but still needs to know what’s going on without all of the gory details, they’ll request a GIST report.

    • billmurray 27.3
      12 January 2017 at 8:14 pm

      Rob Gilchrist,
      I appreciate your opinions Rob, I believe you are right in stating the report is false not only for the reasons you state but I also believe if a real British agent was involved and he worked for the British consular then his name would have come out by now in British news agencies, worked out by those agencies by knowing the personnel involved and time periods of service., or his name leaked to them for nefarious reasons.
      You wrote “But the way things are shaping up, this one won’t be the last one of these”.
      Trump and his team know they have serious problems with the American Intel services caused by Trumps refusal to condemn the Russians over Syria, which they wanted.
      Trump is smart enough to know that the Americans need Russia to resolve the Syrian question.
      Trump, like you knows ‘it will not be the last one of these’ he will keep his foot on CNN’s throat and after inauguration perhaps he will also start charging and jailing people for treachery against the USA.

      • Rob Gilchrist 27.3.1
        12 January 2017 at 8:28 pm

        I sure hope not. They guys a loose cannon. Imagine tweets from @potus abusing everyone from actors to journos!

        Tell you what, it’s going to be a fun ride.

        I’d also hate to be the next president, imagine the mess he/she will have to clean up.

        • billmurray 27.3.1.1
          13 January 2017 at 6:57 am

          Rob Gilchrist,
          whoa I was completely wrong in implying that a British connection in this case would have been outed at my time of posting, if there was one.
          Well it turns out that there is a named British connection Christopher Steele.
          My apologies to one and all.
          Obviously more to come on this matter.
          John le Carre would be proud of the script unfolding.

        • Pat 27.3.2.1
          12 January 2017 at 9:59 pm

          “The Reuters news agency, citing former British intelligence officials, said Steele spent years working for MI6 in Russia and Paris, and at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London.

          Trump calls salacious allegations in Russia dossier ‘fake news’ – as it happened
          Follow the aftermath of the publication of explosive unverified allegations that Donald Trump had secret contacts with Moscow and that Russia has personally compromising material on the president-elect
          Read more
          After leaving MI6 he supplied the FBI with information on corruption at Fifa, international soccer’s governing body. In the summer of 2010, according to emails cited by Reuters, members of a New York-based FBI squad assigned to investigate “Eurasian Organised Crime” met Steele in London to discuss the Fifa allegations. His company assisted football governing bodies in their investigations, Reuters said.

          In the US presidential campaign Steele was initially hired by a Washington DC political research firm, to investigate Trump on behalf of Republicans opposed to his candidacy. He was kept on the assignment after Trump won the nomination and his information was circulated to Democratic party figures and members of the media, Reuters said.

          Eventually he began dealing with the FBI regarding the dossier, sources told Reuters, but he became frustrated at the bureau’s slow progress and cut off contact. The material then circulated in political and media circles before ultimately making its way into the public domain.”

          Whether this ends up being verified or not, one disturbing feature is the fact that going on past verified behaviour by Trump nothing alleged in the report is unlikely.

      • Sacha 27.3.3
        12 January 2017 at 9:11 pm

        “after inauguration perhaps he will also start charging and jailing people for treachery against the USA.”

        what could possibly go wrong?

    • Psycho Milt 27.4
      12 January 2017 at 9:48 pm

      After quickly looking over the doc, it’s nothing like any Intel Report I’ve even seen.

      That’s because it’s not an Intel Report. It’s opposition research by Trump’s political opponents. There’s no reason anyone would format opposition research like an Intel Report, and in fact it would probably annoy the hell out of the people who commissioned the report if it were formatted like that. The fact that something that isn’t an Intel Report isn’t formatted like an Intel Report is self-explanatory and isn’t in any sense evidence that the report is a fake or the content unreliable (ie, the content may well be unreliable, but this isn’t evidence for it).

      • Rob Gilchrist 27.4.1
        12 January 2017 at 10:34 pm

        Yes, but it’s being reported as “an intelligence report” hence my posts saying that it isn’t.

        • Clump_AKA Sam 27.4.1.1
          12 January 2017 at 10:42 pm

          I’ll back Back Robs assertion, the sentence structure is not an Intel report. It’s not short and sweet loaded with info. The dossier kind of dribbles in every sense of the word

        • Psycho Milt 27.4.1.2
          13 January 2017 at 7:55 am

          Yes, but it’s being reported as “an intelligence report”…

          The fact that some journalists are lazy and stupid doesn’t mean the report is “fake,” it means sometimes journalists don’t do their job properly.

          • Morrissey 27.4.1.2.1
            13 January 2017 at 7:56 am

            TRANSLATION: “The complete absence of evidence, plus the fact that this non-existent evidence has been stylishly presented by the world’s most notorious perjurer, just shows how water-tight our case is.”

  28. Anne 28
    12 January 2017 at 8:39 pm

    A summary of events leading up to the public release of the Trump Dossier. From the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/11/trump-russia-report-opposition-research-john-mccain

    It starts to make a bit more sense. The version released by this outfit called Buzzfeed (confess I’ve never heard of them before) may have been acquired from the original ‘client’ which could account for the claimed inaccuracies etc. since that client dropped out of the picture immediately following the Republican Primaries.

    • Anne 29.1
      12 January 2017 at 9:24 pm

      I’ll go with the Guardian investigative stories over The Daily blog.

      • Clump_AKA Sam 29.1.1
        12 January 2017 at 9:25 pm

        You’ll do what?

      • Paul 29.1.2
        12 January 2017 at 9:36 pm

        Did you believe the Guardian in its reporting of Ukraine?
        Did you believe the Guardian in its reporting of Scotland’s referendum?
        Did you believe the Guardian in its reporting of Syria?
        Did you believe the Guardian in its reporting of Libya ?
        Did you believe the Guardian in its reporting of the US election?
        Did you believe the Guardian in its reporting of the Brexit referendum?

      • Paul 29.1.3
        12 January 2017 at 9:40 pm

        Will you go with the Guardian over Patrick Cockburn?
        Will you go with the Guardian over Glenn Greenwald ?
        Will you go with the Guardian over John Pilger?
        Will you go with the Guardian over Peter Osborne?

        • Clump_AKA Sam 29.1.3.1
          12 January 2017 at 9:42 pm

          No idea. They’ve all been discredited, trump won. Catch up

          • Paul 29.1.3.1.1
            12 January 2017 at 9:48 pm

            What are you talking about?

            • Clump_AKA Sam 29.1.3.1.1.1
              12 January 2017 at 9:52 pm

              They backed the wrong horse (Clinton) and lost. There powers of deduction has been compromised by peace. This is war time.

              • Paul …
                12 January 2017 at 9:56 pm

                They?
                That does not apply to Pilger or Greenwald for sure.
                They are not mainstream corporate puppets.

                • Clump_AKA Sam …
                  12 January 2017 at 10:02 pm

                  It’s nothing against them personally. It’s that the threats have moved away from there particular skill set, from defending democracy to now, we’re in attack mode.

                  Styles make fights

            • Morrissey 29.1.3.1.1.2
              13 January 2017 at 7:33 am

              Paul, you’re trying to argue seriously with a time-wasting troll. Don’t bother.

              • Paul …
                13 January 2017 at 7:40 am

                Thanks for the reminder and for your continuing posts which I find both entertaining and enlightening.

                • Morrissey …
                  13 January 2017 at 7:50 am

                  Thanks very much Paul. And don’t worry about the sustained attacks against you by this small group of bewildered Obama-cultists and “liberals” bawling CIA black propaganda memes; it’s just a cross you’ll have to bear, I’m afraid. Stay polite and on the topic, like you have done so admirably, and if you’re lucky one or two of them will melt down and make even more hair-raisingly entertaining allegations about you. It happened to me just yesterday…

                  https://thestandard.org.nz/the-trump-dossier/#comment-1286064

      • Macro 29.1.4
        12 January 2017 at 9:46 pm

        Me too. But you know Paul 🙄

        • Paul 29.1.4.1
          12 January 2017 at 9:51 pm

          The Guardian has been badly tarnished by its coverage of the issues I mentioned above.
          Clearly you are not keeping up with recent events.

          • Macro 29.1.4.1.1
            12 January 2017 at 9:59 pm

            clearly you are heavily biased – but don’t take my word for it.

              • Macro …
                12 January 2017 at 11:00 pm

                Paul we all have cognitive bias to some extent – you more than others.
                Rejecting evidence because it comes from one source which reported something you disagree with is to border on the irrational.
                The reportage by the Guardian on this affair is in line with most other news outlets (other than RT and Fox news – who have not reported it at all) and is consistent with what is being discussed as we commune in the Senate hearings! Are you accusing the Senators of lying? Or the Guardian of misreporting what is public debate? Had you bothered to read the reportage of this affair from sources other than RT, or wherever you prefer to get your “information” these days, you would find that there are ample questions to be asked of your hero, and whether he is ever likely to be a fit person for the task ahead. These questions go right to the very basis of the US constitution, and on all of them he fails to come up to standard. I cannot see that his “Presidency” will survive more than a few months – if that. If not on this issue then on his poor handling of his business. Even Republican senators are beginning to feel uneasy, with respect to his “divesting from his business” – stupidly his final words of his speech are telling just how closely he will still be to Trump enterprises (or whatever he calls it)

                “I hope at the end of eight years I’ll come back and I’ll say, ‘Oh, you did a good job,’” he said. “Otherwise, if they do a bad job, I’ll say: ‘You’re fired.’”

                Divestment? Yeah Right!

                • Paul …
                  12 January 2017 at 11:17 pm

                  The Guardian has form.
                  Ask Corbyn’s supporters.
                  Sadly the liberal establishment is supporting a coup by the military industrial complex.
                  Remember WMD?

                • D'Esterre …
                  14 January 2017 at 11:47 pm

                  Macro: “other than RT and Fox news – who have not reported it at all”

                  I can’t speak for Fox news, but RT has certainly reported it.

                  “Had you bothered to read the reportage of this affair from sources other than RT…”

                  Hang on: didn’t you claim earlier that RT hadn’t reported it at all?

        • Psycho Milt 29.1.5.1
          13 January 2017 at 7:58 am

          Well, yes – you go for activist polemic or genuine propaganda over journalism every time, that’s why your comments tend to attract a lot of rebuttal.

          • Morrissey 29.1.5.1.1
            13 January 2017 at 8:07 am

            Paul quotes the world’s most respected journalists and thinkers—Glenn Greenwald, John Pilger, Robert Fisk, Noam Chomsky. To a degree of course, their work is indeed “activist polemic”: surely they more than almost anyone else on the planet—certainly more than a politician like Obama or, God help us, John Key—have the right to comment about the great crimes they write about.

            Your flippant and arrogant dismissal of them reminds me of John Key’s bullying and stupid opinion about Greenwald: he called him “a loser.”

            • Paul 29.1.5.1.1.1
              13 January 2017 at 8:40 am

              Apparently I am a sock puppet of Pilger and Greenwald.
              I take that as a compliment.
              PM, Red and others would appear to be sock puppets of CNN and the Washington Post. Now that would be shameful after WMD in 2003.

              • Morrissey …
                13 January 2017 at 8:46 am

                Paul, these people heaping abuse on journalists—our friend “Andre” announced sententiously yesterday that he is “losing respect” for Glenn Greenwald!—would be, if they had lived under different regimes, would have obediently ridiculed and denounced the likes of Anna Politkovskaya and Carl von Ossietzky.

            • Psycho Milt 29.1.5.1.1.2
              13 January 2017 at 8:50 am

              To a degree of course, their work is indeed “activist polemic”…

              I know, that’s why I said it. It’s also why treating sources like that as gospel while dismissing less-polemical sources as “biased” results in viewpoints like yours and Paul’s.

              • Morrissey …
                13 January 2017 at 9:01 am

                I treat no source as gospel. As Chomsky repeatedly advises his audiences: don’t trust me, check my sources.

                No journalist, no academic, is perfect. You could argue that Pilger is overbearing and too emotional, and too partisan at times, and the same goes for Robert Fisk. But Greenwald, in particular, is unimpeachable when it comes to his journalism and scholarship.

                In contrast to these journalists, the U.S. regime and its propaganda arms—the New York Times, Washington Post, the three major television networks—are about as trustworthy as an assertion by James Clapper.

          • Paul 29.1.5.1.2
            13 January 2017 at 8:34 am

            I understand why courageous independent journalists attract the ire and attention of corrupt and criminal governments and their support agents.
            Speaking truth to power tends to result in rebuttals from government and corporate agencies.
            I just don’t understand why you support the establishment narrative against such respected and fearless reporters.

  30. nzsage 30
    12 January 2017 at 9:25 pm

    I shouldn’t be surprised but not a word from Fox News on the Trump story just about every other US and world news outlet is covering: http://www.foxnews.com/

    Is ‘no news’ the same as ‘fake news’?

  31. McFlock 31
    12 January 2017 at 10:16 pm

    Dunno if it’s all (or any bit) true or not, but my main observation is that if Trump really is the victim of “fake news” being widely published by his enemies… well, you reap what you sow.

    This is where tories began taking western democracy when they started trying to tell us that tax cuts for the rich were like cash gifts to the poor, but benefits to the poor actually make them worse off: dick measurements in presidential debates and widespread rumours of golden showers for the buffoon-elect.

    • Clump_AKA Sam 31.1
      12 January 2017 at 10:24 pm

      What I don’t get is the money all this was built on was real. The boomers had an opportunity to do great things but peace brought them down. Or the debt they built up is literally festering and all the bullshit is seeping out in ugly ways

  33. Andre 33
    13 January 2017 at 8:36 am

    Stephen Colbert is not, repeat NOT, going to make jokes about the scurrilous unverified salacious details in the dossier.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/stephen-colbert-addresses-golden-shower-claims-like-a-whiz_us_58777f04e4b092a6cae56981

  34. Huginn 34
    13 January 2017 at 9:54 am

    The spooks are talking about sexual and financial kompromat.

    Trump has funny ideas about sex, but that didn’t seem to bother his electorate when they voted him in. The finances might be different.

    In October, the NY Times told us that they received 3 pages of Trump’s 1995 tax returns. The mid ’90’s were a significant time for Trump and Putin.

    Donald Trump Tax Records Show He Could Have Avoided Taxes for Nearly Two Decades, The Times Found – The New York Times

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?_r=0

  36. D'Esterre 36
    15 January 2017 at 2:15 pm

    Pat: “The strongest reason for giving this report credence is that intelligence professionals in the US take it seriously. They were sufficiently persuaded by the author’s track record to find the contents worth passing to the president and president-elect.”

    I give you: –
    1. Weapons of mass destruction dossier
    2. The yellowcake forgeries
    3. Valerie Plame
    4. Scooter Libby

    Best not to accord the Guardian credibility simply because it’s a) British and b) been around a while; it has been hopelessly compromised by past reportage on a number of issues. See above for Paul’s list.

    It’s a very long time since I took at face value any reportage on international affairs emanating from either British or American sources. Scepticism rules, ok!

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