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The US election discussion post

Written By: - Date published: 6:05 am, October 18th, 2016 - 167 comments
Categories: us politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , ,

Clinton Trump

This week we are trialling something new. In order to free up Open Mike and Daily Review for other conversations we are asking that all discussion, posting of links etc on the US election goes in this dedicated thread rather than OM or DR.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

There will continue to be author-written posts on the US election as well, usual rules apply there too.

167 comments on “The US election discussion post ”

  1. Paul 1

    Caption contest?

  2. Tory 2

    Reading the waring factions ‘discussions’ on TS is better than watching the Trump/Clinton debates on TV

  3. Tory 3

    This will be a blow to Trump supporters, proof he is actually a Reptilian Shapeshifter….

    This will be a blow to Clinton supporters, proof she is actually a Reptilian Shapeshifter..


    [you wouldn’t be so stupid as to waste a moderator’s time by flaming would you? – weka]

    • tory 3.1

      I am pointing out the political electoral system in the USA (and corresponding arguments here and elsewhere) where a population in which 12 million believe reptilian lizard people run the USA, 43 million believe in Bigfoot and 40 million believe Obama is the antichrist (although there may be some truth to that…) and we are supposed to take them and their arguments seriously?

      It seems the whole discussion has turned into who can post a link to a story the fastest to get some ‘brownie points’ the quickest.


      Good luck on the moderation……….

      [thanks, and thanks for clarifying, it always helps to have the actual point made rather than people having to guess whether its a windup or not – weka]

      • Andre 3.1.1

        Nice save, tory.

        Personally, I thought this is an excellent place for it if it was a wind-up. But hey, I’m not going to argue with the mods.

        • weka

          lol, I thought it was a nice save too.

          Anything that creates more work for the authors/mods unnecessarily, especially as things are tense already, is unlikely to go down well.

  4. Andre 4

    An interesting discussion about the relationships between leaks of hacked material, the press, and democracy.


  5. Manuka AOR 5

    “Senators Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) appeared side-by-side in Denver on Sunday evening to once again make the case to progressive voters that a vote for Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton is still a vote for “political revolution.” ”

    Bernie “laid out the “two-fold struggle” for progressive voters. First, he said, Clinton needs to win by “landslide proportions so there is no doubt in anybody’s mind that this country is going to reject that sexism, that racism, the xenophobia of the Trump campaign.”

    Secondly, Sanders said that we must “bring millions of people together to create a political revolution and to create a government…that works for all of us that works for all of us, not just the one percent.”

    “Understand that if we do not get our act together,” he warned, “this country is going to slide into oligarchy, where a handful of billionaires will control the economic and political life of this nation and we will not allow that to happen.” ”
    Vid of their speeches at the link

  6. Lara 6

    Like a great many women and a fair amount of men too, I’m disgusted (but not surprised) with the misogyny expressed by Trump. While he’s trying to brush it off as “just talk” the media is ignoring a charge of child rape against him recently filed in New York. Why is this being ignored?

    I notice also that Trump throws accusations at Hillary of what Bill has done. Seems he hasn’t noticed that Hillary and Bill are not the same person. Sure looks like women are still being held accountable for the actions of men.

    I don’t see anyone trolling through the pasts of Trumps wives and girlfriends and holding him accountable for anything they may have done which could be considered wrong.

    This is not to say I’d vote for Hillary, I wouldn’t. But I do see the misogyny, blatant sexism and sexual predation of Trump as much worse than Hillary in general. Probably because I’m a woman and this kind of behaviour from men has directly impacted me in my life. It’s serious to me.

    • Wayne 6.1

      I had also noted this story some months ago. It remains essentially unreported. Presumably there are many journalists who are well aware of the case, so the question is; why is it not being reported, especially in light of all the recent disclosures?

      • Andre 6.1.1

        Maybe the press is wary that there may be some fishhooks in that particular case?


        But I would have thought there would have been more reference to older instances of similar sexual assault allegations (such as Jill Harth) to reinforce that the latest allegations against Trump are just the continuance of a pattern.

      • weka 6.1.2

        I had also noted this story some months ago. It remains essentially unreported. Presumably there are many journalists who are well aware of the case, so the question is; why is it not being reported, especially in light of all the recent disclosures?

        The article references why,

        An anonymous “Jane Doe” filed a federal lawsuit against GOP presumptive nominee Donald Trump last week, accusing him of raping her in 1994 when she was thirteen years old. The mainstream media ignored the filing.

        If the Bill Cosby case has taught us anything, it is to not disregard rape cases against famous men. Serious journalists have publicly apologized for turning a blind eye to the Cosby accusers for over a decade, notwithstanding the large number of women who had come forward with credible claims. And now history is repeating itself.

        In covering a story, a media outlet is not finding guilt. It is simply reporting the news that a lawsuit has been filed against Mr. Trump, and ideally putting the complaint in context. Unproven allegations are just that – unproven, and should be identified that way. (Mr. Trump’s lawyer says the charges are “categorically untrue, completely fabricated and politically motivated.”) Proof comes later, at trial. But the November election will come well before any trial. And while Mr. Trump is presumed innocent, we are permitted – no, we are obligated — to analyze the case’s viability now.

        No outsider can say whether Mr. Trump is innocent or guilty of these new rape charges. But we can look at his record, analyze the court filings here, and make a determination as to credibility – whether the allegations are believable enough for us to take them seriously and investigate them, keeping in mind his denial and reporting new facts as they develop.

        I have done that. And the answer is a clear “yes.” These allegations are credible. They ought not be ignored. Mainstream media, I’m looking at you.

        • Puckish Rogue

          I don’t get it, the media are seemingly keen to report on anything unsavoury about Trump yet when something legit comes up they ignore it…

          I’d have thought they’d be all over this

          • Wayne

            Well, you certainly would think the media would be all over it now, but they are not. Whatever reason they had in not reporting it before would seem no longer relevant.

            A bit of a mystery.

    • + 1 Lara good points

    • Manuka AOR 6.3

      Here is another link to that case:
      It includes a link to the court filed documents.

      • RedLogix 6.3.1

        The lesson here is that many high profile males have this kind of past that people are rapidly waking up to. Start the list at Bill Cosby and work downwards. Men we were encouraged to admire, respect or just consider celebrities usually have an over-entitled, predatory sexual past.

        And old friend of mine, a lawyer, once told me” the bigger you are in this town, the bigger the skeleton in your closet”. And that was just Auckland.

        As I said in a previous thread, I’m expecting serial rapist Trump to be convicted and imprisoned on this one. Another massive nail in the fast sealing coffin of male sexual entitlement and aggression.

        • Colonial Viper

          Hillary Clinton doesn’t get a single day in court for repeatedly breaking national security and State Dept security protocols, all her staff get immunity from prosecution, but they will drag something up from 20 years ago just weeks before the election to try and get Trump with.

          Interesting “democracy.”

          As I said in a previous thread, I’m expecting serial rapist Trump to be convicted and imprisoned on this one.

          And will it be primarily for the crime of abusing this girl, or will it be primarily for the crime of opposing the Deep State?

          BTW is the DoJ busy preparing rape charges against Bill Clinton? Based on all the time Bill Clinton spent on Epstein’s private jet and private love island? No?

          • RedLogix

            Who said it was fair CV? What part of thousands of years of enslavement, rape, demeaning and control of women by men was fair either?

            What we are seeing with numerous prominent males, is eventually a background of criminal sex offenses is exposed by people who’ve had to hide their fear, shame or guilt for decades. There is a pattern here. A women are no longer willing to tolerate it.

            • Colonial Viper

              Ahhhh, I see.

              So now womens outrage is to be weaponised as a political tool. If you are Donald Trump and you hung out with Epstein, you will be crucified. If you are Bill Clinton and you hung out with Epstein you will be protected (and kept in line).

              When you say that “there is a pattern here” I agree with you, but it has nothing to do with bringing justice for girls or for women.

              • McFlock

                Oh, stop projecting your own callous abuse of suffering onto the rest of us.

                Donald Trump is not being crucified because he hung out with Epstein, he’s lost millions of votes because he is facing sexual assault and misconduct allegations from over a dozen women, including that he did exactly what he boasted about doing on a separate recording, and hung out with a wall street billionaire who was discovered to be a (probably serial) sex offender.

          • TheExtremist

            “BTW is the DoJ busy preparing rape charges against Bill Clinton? Based on all the time Bill Clinton spent on Epstein’s private jet and private love island? No?”

            We’ll they’ll need evidence and for someone to come forward and accuses Clinton. You know, like the 9 woman who have accused Trump

            • Colonial Viper

              That’s right, there’s no list of women who have come out and accused Bill Clinton of rape and sexual assault stretching all the way back to his Governor days is there, TheExtremist?

              Is there?

              • TheExtremist

                Um, I was referring to your specific claim:
                “BTW is the DoJ busy preparing rape charges against Bill Clinton? Based on all the time Bill Clinton spent on Epstein’s private jet and private love island?”

                • Colonial Viper

                  Except you wrote this:

                  We’ll they’ll need evidence and for someone to come forward and accuses Clinton. You know, like the 9 woman who have accused Trump

                  And as I replied, there is a long list of women who have accused Clinton.

                  • TheExtremist

                    No, you made the claim that there are rape charges stemming from Epstein’s private jet and private love island. So in order to prosecute “They’ll need evidence and for someone to come forward and accuses Clinton. You know, like the 9 woman who have accused Trump”

                    I’m replying to your specific claim. No matter how hard you try muddy the waters and make it sound like I am saying something I’m not.

                  • McFlock

                    there is a long list of women who have accused Clinton.

                    Actually, there’s not. There are three women who have accused him of offences of various degrees. Three too many, but it’s not a “long list” like trump’s.

                    But then of course even if there were equivalence between WJC and Trump, WJC isn’t running for president. Heck, he was already president when the first allegations came to light.

                    • Andre

                      Uh, at least some of the allegations of offences were a feature of the 1992 campaign. If I recall correctly, at that time the status of Broaddrick’s claim (that actual rape allegation) was that the allegations were public and she denied that rape had occurred.

                    • McFlock

                      Ah, fair call. Done a bit more reading (I was still in school lol).

                      Apparently in late 1992 she did speak to a a couple of Republicans, but subsequently refused to speak to reporters and the republicans refused to release the tapes they’d made of the conversation. So it surfaced briefly but fizzled as a story until well into his second term.

          • dukeofurl

            DoJ ?
            One the FBI investigates only federal crimes. the DOJ doesnt do criminal investigations
            Two it would likely be a state that would investigate any crime like rape.
            Three This is all fanatsy anyway

          • Psycho Milt

            Hillary Clinton doesn’t get a single day in court for repeatedly breaking national security and State Dept security protocols, all her staff get immunity from prosecution, but they will drag something up from 20 years ago just weeks before the election to try and get Trump with.

            Does “they” in the above sentence refer to the lizard people or the Illuminati? I’ve lost track.

        • Andre

          All the news about groping and worse will hopefully mean more people stop tolerating it.

          But there’s an interesting argument that maybe Trump’s run at president and particularly his threats to jail Clinton might help to protect him from being held accountable, since it might be seen to be politically motivated.


          • Colonial Viper

            That’s right, Trump can ask the DoJ for immunity from prosecution – they seem to be handing those out like candy to the Clinton team.

            • TheExtremist

              You do understand why immunity is given right? Hint: it isn’t about protecting Clinton

              • Colonial Viper

                And still, no charges filed over anything, and further, her staffers were allowed to destroy evidence (laptops) as part of the deal.

                • TheExtremist

                  Immunity is used to protect the informer in order to gain information from which could potentially lead to a prosecution. Which obviously they didn’t get enough information about to continue. It *isn’t* about protecting Clinton – in fact the complete opposite.

                  now that this has been explained to you I trust you’ll stop bring up the immunity issue…but then again, you have been pretty intellectually dishonest thus far so I imagine you’ll keep screaming “But but IMMUNITY!!!” despite being shown why this is invalid as an argument.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    You describe how immunity from prosecution is *supposed* to work.

                    And by the way…you only need immunity from prosecution when you have done something wrong.

                    • TheExtremist

                      “You describe how immunity from prosecution is *supposed* to work.”

                      Excellent – so I guess you have some evidence then it was used inappropriately in this instance.

                      “you only need immunity from prosecution when you have done something wrong”


                    • Colonial Viper

                      You want evidence? There’s plenty lying around for those who are interested.

                      “In my 25 years with the bureau, I never had any ground rules in my interviews,” said retired agent Dennis V. Hughes, the first chief of the FBI’s computer investigations unit.

                      Instead of going to prosecutors and insisting on using grand jury leverage to compel testimony and seize evidence, Comey allowed immunity for several key witnesses, including potential targets.

                      The immunity agreements came with outrageous side deals, including preventing agents from searching for any documents on a Dell laptop owned by former Clinton chief of staff Cheryl Mills generated after Jan. 31, 2015, when she communicated with the server administrator who destroyed subpoenaed emails.

                      Comey also agreed to have Mills’ laptop destroyed after the restricted search, denying Congress the chance to look at it and making the FBI an accomplice to the destruction of evidence.

                      Comey’s immunized witnesses nonetheless suffered chronic lapses in memory, made unsubstantiated claims of attorney-client privilege upon tougher questioning and at least two gave demonstrably false statements. And yet Comey indulged it all.

                      What’s more, Comey cut a deal to give Clinton a “voluntary” witness interview on a major holiday, and even let her ex-chief of staff sit in on the interview as a lawyer, even though she, too, was under investigation.


                    • dukeofurl

                      Well the FBI director did explain

                      “He said that the Justice Department wrote Mills’ lawyer a letter granting her active production immunity.

                      That type of immunity, which is different than personal immunity, protected Mills from prosecution for anything found on the computer.”

                      As she was a lawyer herself they would normally have privledged communications with clients
                      ““Fairly common tool in criminal investigations,” Comey said.”

                • dukeofurl

                  They were lawyers, law enforcement in general cant be privy to lawyer-client communications.

    • Chooky 6.4

      re “Like a great many women and a fair amount of men too, I’m disgusted (but not surprised) with the misogyny expressed by Trump.”

      This is interesting:

      ‘Women more likely to use misogynistic terms online, report finds’


      “Women in the UK and US are more likely to use misogynist language on social media than men, according to the results of a four-year study.
      The research was carried out by the social media research firm Brandwatch and looked at 19 million tweets over a four-year period to assess the levels of anti-woman sentiment expressed online.

      The study found that over that period there were 3 million posts which contained terms abusive to women – with women most likely to have posted them…

      The report was carried out for anti-bullying charity Ditch The Label, and found that words like “bitch,” “cow” and “slut” had passed into common usage by women online…

      • Lara 6.4.1

        Oh FFS. You want to trot out one stupid bloody “study” which shows how women use language? And that proves what exactly? That women are worse than men?

        It wasn’t women who have abused me in my lifetime. It was men.

        I’ve never been groped, raped, or sexually harassed by a woman. Men. Every. Time.

        When women experience the lower level of sexual harassment and abuse, particularly when it’s “only” verbal, we don’t report it to police. Because we bloody well know they don’t give a shit. They will do absolutely nothing. Hell, they watched RoastBusters gang rape under age girls and did nothing. It was police who raped Louise Nichols and the rest of them did nothing.

        Trumps overt misogyny certainly looks like it’s not just words. Multiple women have stated he raped them, groped them, assaulted them. When he said he could do anything he liked, “grab them by the pussy” he was TELLING US WHAT HE DOES.

        So how about you start listening to the millions of women who are telling you what their lives are like. Start reading some of the stuff on the EveryDaySexismProject. Or start looking at the comments here.

        And stop fucking telling me women are worse. That’s not going to work.

  7. Ad 7

    For a slight improvement in the US system, there would need to be both a Democrat President, AND a change in the Senate to Democrat majority.

    What’s slightly more likely is that four of the five seats really in play turn from Republican to Democrat. That would make the 2017 Senate 50-50.

    That would give a shot of the mid terms rolling one more for a majority. Which would make life fractionally easier for a Democrat president than Obama had.

    Sure, that’s a long way from substantial change.
    But it would be a slight improvement.

    • Andre 7.1

      Except the 2018 mid-terms have more Dems defending seats in marginal states.
      Mid-terms also generally swing against the party with the presidency.


      • Ad 7.1.1

        Which makes it more than likely that it will take a President who is at least as activist as Obama to change things (who has a major list of creditable achievements and is by a long way the most leftie Us President I’ve seen in my lifetime).

        Currently, the best to hope for out of this entire election is Washington is status quo in political balance.

  8. Manuka AOR 8

    Keith Olbermann GQ vid, on the “Vast right wing conspiracy”
    ” It wasn’t vast, but it sure had stamina”

    • Puckish Rogue 9.1

      Makes Key, Peters and Little look not so bad…which is saying something

      • Liberal Realist 9.1.1

        Makes Key, Peters and Little look not so bad…which is saying something

        Key not so bad? You’ve clearly forgotten about his ponytail pulling fetish…

        That said, I guess a perverted dishonest neoliberal PM is not quite as bad as a pay for play warmonger or a bigoted orange predator…

    • Pasupial 9.2

      I didn’t think that Somebody’s Sister song was too bad; dated, yes – but for its genre; I’ve heard worse. I understand that LWT is a comedy show and a presidential hopeful’s earnest folk-rock is like shooting fish in a barrel, plus they’re certainly no Midnight Oil. Still, if you listen to the whole (6 minute!) song then it works better than just taking the second verse out of context (the topic link will get you to the rest of the album, some of which is a bit formulaic – especially the guitar solos):

  9. Puckish Rogue 10

    Everyones more attractive when they smile, even Trump 🙂

  10. Sabine 11

    i so wanted Clinton vs Sanders.
    oh the debates we could have had.
    instead…they team her up with an orange hued buffon.

  11. xanthe 12

    Hmmm……. i think trump will turn this !
    He only has to discredit two accusers this week for this to turn again (dont for one minute think i am suggesting that accusations are false or true ! The one thing i am sure of is that no one here knows the facts) it is not necessary for the accusation to be false for trump to “”discredit”” it . Thats how this game works, he can, and very likely will, regardless of the truth
    There is a good reason why these issues should not be electioneering issues , the truth is deliberatly obscured by all parties and the abuse is compounded. This is a very sick electioneering process and it succeeds to the extent that each of us buy into it.

  12. Andre 13

    A brief discussion on why the the ability to appoint Supreme Court justices really really matters this time.


    • joe90 13.1

      After eight years obstructing Republicans think more of the same will be a winner.

      McCain today promised that Senate Republicans will oppose "any Supreme Court nominee" Clinton puts up if elected https://t.co/nt8a1zK06d pic.twitter.com/9xVoVYZjB0— Christopher Massie (@chrismassie) October 17, 2016

      • Andre 13.1.1

        That seems a bit surprising, I had thought McCain was better than that. It seems he’s already walked it back.

        • joe90

          Seems his walkback wasn’t exactly sincere.

          MORE: McCain in #AZSen debate: "We only have 8 Supreme Court justices & I'd much rather have 8 Supreme Court justices" than risking liberal.— Kelly Steele (@steelekelly) October 17, 2016

  13. Observer Tokoroa 14

    . The Green Party and Russia

    Recent commentary on The Standard has seen great praise for Vlad Putin and Julie Stein, a spokesperson for the USA Green Party.

    CV is a major supporter of Putin as he appears to think that Russia is not part of the Western World. Julie Stein seems to be very dismissive of Western Politics. But not of Putin’s. I think some clarity is required.

    Does the Green Party here in New Zealand have strong threads to Russian Oligarchy.?

    Also, does this coziness with Russian political management mean that the Greens here will get more local respect and more seats in Parliament?


    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      Jill Stein is the US Green Party presidential candidate.

    • tom 14.2

      Observer Tokoroa at 14

      Honestly read a bit wider, please, please!!!
      an absolutely ridiculous post, wake up man!
      give yourself some context thru research
      it really does not dignify any more of a response than that

  14. Mike Yardley, commentator for The Press is sure Hillary will win, barring a monumental Wikileaks dump or an Act of God.

    Is she still at risk of being snared by a grand jury over the e-mail server?

  15. Colonial Viper 17

    Clinton’s loving inclusive supporters firebomb N.C. Republican Offices, tell Nazi GOP’ers to leave town

    I regard this kind of thing as noise, but since joe90 and others keep trying to impugn Trump based on his deplorable supporters:

    A Republican party office in North Carolina was firebombed overnight and a nearby building was scrawled with graffiti warning “Nazi Republicans” to “leave town or else,” authorities said Sunday.


      • Colonial Viper 17.1.1

        Well, that’s nice of them. Did they manage to identify the violent hate group within the local Democratic Party?

        • Peter Swift

          “Did they manage to identify the violent hate group within the local Democratic Party?”

          Yep, well done Dunedin labour.

          [I reckon there’s an element of pointless abuse in both CV’s comment and your reply, PS. No references to real life identities please, and let’s wait until the attack is investigated before apportioning blame, OK? TRP]

        • Sabine

          and you know it was some violent hate group within the local democratic party?
          care to share your sources?

          or are you just now flinging shit about cause that’s all you got left?

    • Pasupial 17.2


      Is there any evidence about who was responsible? Maybe I’m just being cynical here, but if I was running a failing campaign then I might consider; a false flag sympathy gambit (if I was short sighted and narcissistic enough).

    • joe90 17.3

      but since joe90 and others keep trying to impugn Trump based on his deplorable supporters:

      Another deplorable obliges.

      In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, a Donald Trump supporter at an Ohio rally alluded to the need to assassinate Hillary Clinton if she won the presidency, calling it his duty as a “patriot.”


      The Boston Globe‘s Matt Viser also encountered Bowman, and reported on even more troubling comments.“If she’s in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot. That’s how I feel about it…” he said. “We’re going to have a revolution and take them out of office if that’s what it takes. There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed.”

      Viser said on CNN that Bowman’s rhetoric was widespread at the rally he attended and that Trump himself deserved some of the blame, noting his comments that only “Second Amendment people” could stop Clinton. “That language is sort of leading at least some of his supporters to sort of engage in some of the violent rhetoric,” he argued.

      (video inside)


      • Colonial Viper 17.3.1

        Video proof that Democratic operatives started violence at Trump rallies to shut them down

        In this explosive new video from Project Veritas Action, a Democratic dirty tricks operative unwittingly provides a dark money trail to the DNC and Clinton campaign.

        The video documents violence at Trump rallies that is traced to the Clinton campaign and the DNC through a process called “bird-dogging.”

        A shady coordinated communications chain between the DNC, Clinton Campaign, Hillary Clinton’s Super PAC (Priorities) and other organizations are revealed.

        A key Clinton operative is on camera saying, “It doesn’t matter what the friggin’ legal and ethics people say, we need to win this motherfucker.”

        There is much more including

        “So if we do a protest and if its branded a DNC protest, right away the press is going to say partisan,” Minter went on. “But if I’m in there coordinating with all the groups on the ground and sort of playing field general but they are the ones talking to the cameras, then its actually people. But if we send out press advisories with DNC on them and Clinton campaign doesn’t have that same effect.”


        • joe90

          James O’Keefe, really?.


          1. condom jar
          2. dildos
          3. Music

          a. Alicia keys [sic]
          b. 80s romance songs, things that are typically James
          c. avoid Marvin Gaye as too cliche

          4. lube
          5. ceiling mirror
          6. posters and paintings of naked women
          7. playboys [sic] and pornographic magazines
          8. candles
          9. Viagra and stamina pills
          10. fuzzy handcuffs
          11. blindfold[24]



        • Sabine

          yep, just flinging shit about.

        • Chooky

          +100 CV…a MUST WATCH!

          …dirty fascist tricks, black ops smear campaign is coming from the Clinton camp in order to provoke/disrupt Trump supporters and rallies…then cry foul and wolf!…and blaming Trump and his supporters!

          ….and exploiting /using the homeless and mentally unstable ….disgraceful!

          ….although sadly i don’t think anyone here will watch it …let alone make it a Post

          ( more like try and bury it)

          …however other people around the world ARE watching!

  16. Curious George 18

    you guys should keep an eye on this twitter feed


    also look at all sources even those you don’t agree with to gauge the climate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1vpV6_F6GY Tariq Nasheed
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu41CPQw0hg Minister Louis Farrakhan “Nation of Islam”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbNI48XOJo8 the Hayes Brothers

    Would like peoples opinion of the above email chain, read from bottom to top, and the inclusion of the NZ embassy in the list of lobbyists?
    Did the NZ Embassy supply funds to the Clinton foundation or a separate DNC party/Clinton from 6/10/13 – Current ?

    And if the money went to the Clinton Foundation as donations why is Dennis Cheng National Finance Director Hillary for America dcheng@hillaryclinton.com, using the term lobbyists?

    • Chooky 18.1

      re “Did the NZ Embassy supply funds to the Clinton foundation or a separate DNC party/Clinton from 6/10/13 – Current ?”

      This question should be asked in Parliament

      • Curious George 18.1.1

        I agree.

        Funny when I look at this site it reminds me of a maze with lots of dead ends, almost as if it were designed to ensure debate goes nowhere.

        Be interesting to draw a little flow diagram of thread structures, someone that works with systems design or maintenance would easily discern if this is by accident or design.

        idle thought:
        An asylum where the insane have been given uniforms and put in charge unaware they are now their own keepers, locking themselves securely into their own padded cells, or safe spaces as they like to call them, and if perchance a casual stranger should look in they are ready to descend upon them en-mass all tooth and claw until the strange flees in terror.

        Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.

  17. Henry Filth 19

    Thanks to Mister Trump for saving us from the horrors Cruz, Bush, Rubio, Christie et al.

    Any of whom might have proved electable.

    • Stuart Munro 19.1

      They should’ve retreaded McCain – the only one they’ve got left who’s even close to sane.

      • Andre 19.1.1

        Judging by his vow to block any Clinton appointee to the Supreme Court, it seems he’s finally lost his marbles too.

        • Stuart Munro

          Perhaps – not his finest move certainly. But even with that he’s a classier act than any of the others. Hardly a high bar mind.

  18. GregJ 20

    @ Lara made a comment (rather than nesting it under the lengthy exchange I’ve posted it separately):

    don’t see anyone trolling through the pasts of Trumps wives and girlfriends and holding him accountable for anything they may have done which could be considered wrong.

    That’s not entirely the case though – Melania Trump has had her Immigration status questioned and various claims made that she was an escort before she meet Trump as well as several “racy” photos republished from her time as a model. They have been fairly low key and (fortunately/thankfully?) the progressive media has largely stayed away from the stories but they are in the general flavour of the same type of attacks (if nowhere the intensity and vitriol of the Clinton smears). Even the reporting of her libel threats and the subsequent retractions of course plays into the news cycle.

    • Lara 20.1

      A fair point.

      I missed that.

      Probably because it was fairly low key as you say.

      And also because I’ve just had enough of this shitstorm that is the US elections. I wish they’d get it over with already.

  19. adam 21

    Trump Tee’s

  20. Curious George 22
  21. Andre 23

    The Clinton campaign has finally figured out where Trump gets his ideas from.

    Watch it all the way to the end.

    • Colonial Viper 24.1

      Obama has already talked about joining Wall St/hedge fund management.

      Surprise surprise.

  22. joe90 25


    Trump was deposed during the divorce, too. According to a report by the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement, which examined the divorce records, Trump invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination approximately a hundred times when Ivana’s lawyers asked him about adulterous relations with other women.


  23. joe90 29

    So, Clinton was telling the truth and documents were actually retroactively classified to block FOI requests.

    The new FBI docs make it clear that most of the @HillaryClinton "classified" emails were retroactively classified when the press FOIAed them pic.twitter.com/0KED8xjddL— Kevin Poulsen (@kpoulsen) October 17, 2016

  24. rhinocrates 30

    Just a reminder about far right terrorism in the USA:


    Federal authorities arrested three members of a right-wing, Kansas-based group who dubbed themselves “The Crusaders” on suspicion of plotting the bombing of a mosque and housing complex in Garden City, Kansas, on Friday.

    The complex has approximately 120 residents, many of whom are Somali… In one transcript, one of the self-proclaimed Crusaders says, “the only fucking way this country’s ever going to get turned around is it will be a bloodbath and it will be a nasty, messy motherfucker.”

    The attackers planned to hit the mosque the day after election day.

    • Colonial Viper 30.1

      Federal authorities arrested three members of a right-wing, Kansas-based group who dubbed themselves “The Crusaders” on suspicion of plotting the bombing of a mosque and housing complex in Garden City, Kansas, on Friday.

      that’s small scale noise.

      If you want to kill Muslims on a massive scale, say hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of them, you need the military and financial war machine, or at least the armaments and funding of, the Government of the United States of America.

      7 countries where the Obama has killed (helped kill) Muslims in the last 5 years:

      1) Afghanistan.
      2) Iraq.
      3) Libya.
      4) Syria.
      5) Somalia.
      6) Pakistan.
      7) Yemen.

      And just this week the US launched its first direct attacks on Yemen, under the pretext that its naval vessels were launched at by shore based rockets.

      • rhinocrates 30.1.1

        Yay! you score more points!

        The point is that the US has a deeply Islamophobic streak within its borders that is willing to kill en masse. No more, no less.

        Of course you just see dead bodies as points in some crass, mindless game.

        How’s this supposed to go next? Do I quote some statistics about Muslims killed by ISIS, or Russian airstrikes? If someone’s blown to pieces, do I get to count separate body parts? If you want to reduce it to a sick game.

        • rhinocrates

          I don’t think any of it’s good. The dead are dead, the saved are lucky. This reflexive resort to a morbid game of one-upmanship shows a disconnection from these people as anything but statistics.

        • Colonial Viper

          The point is that the US has a deeply Islamophobic streak within its borders that is willing to kill en masse. No more, no less.

          This was deliberately cultivated by the US Deep State, which required a new enemy for the American people after the collapse of the USSR in the 1990s, particularly one which would justify massive new US intervention in the Middle East.

          Through the decades however, the US Deep State has found Islamic fundamentalism of great help to its cause.

          • rhinocrates

            I forget, are the Deep State Lizards, Greys, Illuminati or Daleks?

            Joking aside, indeed the interest that Lockheed, Haliburton and whatever Blackwater’s called this week or the interest that Exxon et al have in controlling the world’s supply of oil is undeniable, as is the power of their lobbyists in Washington.

            I’m not going to defend drones etc at all. I note of course the US’s support of the Taleban when they were ‘useful’ to oppose the Soviet Union.

            However, you really don’t need a conspiracy theory to explain violent xenophobia on the ground. First, they always assume far more competence and co-ordination than has ever been shown in real life and second, It’s potential wired into human nature – what I refer as myself as the Strangelove principle: the most base impulses will be rationalised by the most elevated seeming idealism or the most dispassionate realpolitik.

            This reported incident highlights the possibility – and indeed desire – for internecine warfare in America (far more chaotic than a civil war). There are plenty who would play Milosevic of Karadzic.

            • Colonial Viper

              Although one has to admit that this is hardly new. The incidents with the Branch Davidians at Waco and the Oklahoma City bombing, for instance.

              This is after all a nation which was founded on internecine warfare. (After massacring millions of indians of course).

              • AmaKiwi

                Historical fact checking.

                The Indian massacres were mostly from the 1870’s onward, 100 years after the USA was founded. Most of the Indians east of the Mississippi River died of infections diseases before the settlers moved in. Small box killed many as early as 1600, brought by sailors on fishing vessels who went ashore to gather supplies to sail back to Europe.

                The first African slaves were brought to Virginia as early as 1607.

                • ropata

                  The War of Independence, the Civil War, the Texas Revolution, the Mexican-American War, the Wild West, the KKK, . . . And now, shooting deaths are set to outnumber road fatalities.

              • Colonial Viper

                After the 1870’s? I am dumbfounded it occurred so late. I had somehow assumed that it had mostly occurred pre-Civil War in more ‘primitive times’, and that the lads Washington, Jefferson, et al saw to it under their watch.

                Thanks for the correction.

      • Stuart Munro 30.1.2

        I’m afraid we need more context.

        There’s not an armed force in the world that won’t return fire – which is appropriate if it is proportionate. Likely it wasn’t – but surmise is not fact.

        Probably the US vessels should not have been within the Yemeni engagement envelope – that’s the point of territorial waters after all.


        It seems to have been a relatively limited tit-for-tat, excessive given that Yemeni ordnance fell short. Not a civilian bombardment however.

  25. Ad 31

    Hillary to win.

    Senate tied. But Vice President is the Senate tie-breaker.

    President Hillary gets four Supreme Court nominees through in one term.

    Trump buys a minority of Fox News and just has a good time presenting.

    Pretty much status quo in Washington. Fun though!

    • McFlock 31.1

      Not so sure about senate: if RNC ditch support for trump they’ll focus on house and senate campaigns.

      Nice thought though.

      • Colonial Viper 31.1.1

        The RNC has already effectively ditched support for Trump – RNC spending on the Trump ad campaign has been a grand total of $0


        Hillary could possibly win…but President Hillary is going to quickly morph into President Kaine because her health is just not going to hold up.

        I am still picking Trump for 290 electoral votes. Although I have to admit the odds appear slim to nil…

        • McFlock

          lol she seemed all good during the debates.

        • b waghorn

          Didn’t jw jnr knock off at 5pm when he was boss , old hillary could do the same . it’s probably more tiring campaigning in a country the size of the us than it is to run it.

        • rhinocrates

          because her health is just not going to hold up.

          Don’t be ridiculous. Lockheed Martin will just build another one. With laser eyes.

        • TheExtremist

          Yeah, now that’s a smear CV. Baseless claims repeated without a shred of evidence.

          Oh but all the woman coming forward with sexual assault claims. Bah! Smear campaign!

          • Colonial Viper

            Please explain how it can be a smear when it is almost certainly true? Special blue sunglasses, special blue contact lenses, uncontrolled head movement caught on video, uncoordinated eye movements, loss of limb control, a record of poorly explained falls, multiple instances of health incidents due to “dehydration”, pneumonia which doesn’t behave like pneumonia, odd head and neck reactions to lights and sounds, etc.

    • dukeofurl 31.2

      Trump doesnt do anything that involves real money.
      Murdochs wont sell their crown jewels.
      Breitbart news might morph into Trump Lies.

  26. wow

    “Donald Trump has continued an unprecedented effort by a major presidential candidate to effectively declare the presidential election invalid before voters have even had their say.

    On Monday, just over three weeks before election day, the Republican nominee repeated his unsupported claim that voter fraud was rampant and specifically stated in a rally in Green Bay, Wisconsin that ballots cast by illegal immigrants led to Barack Obama’s victory in North Carolina in 2008. “People who died 10 years ago are still voting,” he claimed…

    …On Monday he specifically said that 1.8 million dead people would vote – and for “somebody else”. The statement was apparently a reference to the fact that one 2012 study found up to 1.8 million active voter registrations from deceased voters. In reality the study it found no evidence of fraud or that any illegitimate ballots were cast – it simply meant state voter databases were out of date.

    Trump also insisted without evidence: “We have voters all over the country where they’re not even citizens of the country and they’re voting.”

    The Republican nominee’s unsupported allegations came as he continued to attack the press for reporting on a series of accusations against him of sexual assault and misconduct.”


    I quoted a bit because it answers the lies that trump is using.

    But I think this is a BIG mistake by trump. Trying to ferment a civil war is not only treason imo but more importantly for trump – you can’t monitise anything if people are dying and being killed – perhaps he has munitions investments – who knows.

  27. joe90 33

    Putting the needle in.

    🙌🏾 Michigan. Arabic billboard: "Donald Trump: He can't read this, but he is afraid of it." https://t.co/LFkEiy2Ci2 pic.twitter.com/9VpBKzurTc— Ismat Sarah Mangla (@ismat) October 17, 2016

  28. Curious George 35

    joe90 that was already posted same link above, it is a bit old,

    here is something new to digest


  29. Onya Tom Hanks

    “The “Inferno” star railed against the Republican presidential candidate and his horrific comments condoning sexual assault in a leaked 2005 audio recording revealed last week. Though Trump later brushed off his remarks as mere “locker-room talk,” Hanks said that the candidate’s comments were anything but.

    “He was at work, man. He wasn’t in a locker room. He was at work. He was showing up to do a thing on camera,” Hanks told the Press Association during an interview for his new movie. “Look… I’m offended as a man. I’m not offended as a husband or a father. I’m offended as a guy.”

    The actor, clearly growing more and more agitated, added, “That’s just not right, I’m sorry. It’s not right at work, it’s not right in the locker room. It’s wrong, period. The end. That’s all.”


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