Tories still bigots at heart

47 comments on “Tories still bigots at heart ”

• Comments are now closed

1. lprent 1

   13 October 2008 at 12:38 am

   Yeah I was just commenting about how tired the senior Nay’s are looking. There have been video of both Key and English on the site in the last week. Both looked half-dead at the eyes. The legendary Key smile seems to have dropped an inch down the face, and I’d almost swear that he is receding really fast.

   I saw Helen last week and she was looking pretty relaxed. I only glimpsed her today – too many damn people in the way (and I was talking to Chris T about the seachange going on). But she has been getting pretty good at pacing herself for these campaigns. Was certainly moving at a fast clip……..

   The way it is going, by election time, the senior Nay’s could have serious fatigue problems. We should just book them into a hospital now for a few weeks. Nah – that is no good, it’d leave Helen all revved up and only minor figures in the Nays to torment.
2. Killinginthenameof 2

   13 October 2008 at 1:31 am

   Film your mates breaking the law and put it on youtube, way to go guys!

   It actually really fucks me off idiots doing stupid things like his video of the WRX. Stupid, dangerous, reflects really badly on people like me who like to own a nice Japanese car, but don’t want to be called boy racers, or at least to not have the term “boy racer” applied too that kind of behavior. He’s bloody lucky the license plate isn’t shown, I’d be reporting him if it was.

   What a pathetic school play ground insult too.
3. Razorlight 3

   13 October 2008 at 6:23 am

   SP

   Relax, I dont know you but you seem to have so much hate and anger in you.

   Those people on the opposite side of the political spectrum don’t eat babies. They are normal average kiwi’s who believe in a different means to the same end we all desire. It is simple as that. Not a reason to carry around anger.

   To constantly label the tories as bigoted or whatever other name you have for the day is so incredibly divisive.

   I am a proud rightie and hope they win, but if they don’t we will move on. I can’t begin to comprehend how anyone could sleep at night with the amount of hate you so obviously have inside you.
4. maxq 4

   13 October 2008 at 6:31 am

   fair question though -how can you be trusted if you are not honest enough to put your real photo on your billboard.

   Classic Steve/Pierson spin there.
5. Andrew 5

   13 October 2008 at 6:40 am

   Damn Steve, it’s staring to sound like she’s your girlfriend :o)

   “Clark looks great at 58, she’s fit and trim, and hasn’t been aged by the pressures of leading in the way others have”

   Just which Helen are we talking about?
6. Robinsod 6

   13 October 2008 at 7:04 am

   What ever happened to the Nats’ positive and ambitions campaign?
7. Robinsod 7

   13 October 2008 at 7:22 am

   Of course I meant “ambitious”. Just watched the clip – what a bunch of losers! I see English was very keen to make it clear that Key was the one who cut Winnie out…
8. outofbed 8

   13 October 2008 at 7:30 am

   “What ever happened to the Nats’ positive and ambitions campaign?”
   I dunno , Bill English looked even more feral and angry then usual on Agenda Sunday morning
   I don’t know why, he is in a strong position. If National lose , which is looking increasingly likely, then he will be the leader.
   If National win, which is looking increasingly unlikely, then he will be the leader
   Its a win win for Bill I would have thought
9. RedLogix 9

   13 October 2008 at 7:56 am

   And this seems a good place to mention the 6 or so emails I’ve seen circulating over the last few months, all puporting to be a joke about Helen Clark, but in reality thinly disguised bits of sexist bigotry. They all had the common thread denigrating Helen Clark’s age and appearance, and there was no doubt they had a common source.

   I haven’t seen one for a few weeks now. Possibly they were so pathetically bad that someone realised that their mass circulation was getting to be counterproductive.
10. appleboy 10

    13 October 2008 at 8:02 am

    The interesting thing I thought was Key and his likening of running a business being the same as running a country. That’s just it – it’s a very different thing. I believe this is where National are a real contrast. In their choice of leaders, they National pick these outsiders, reserve bankers and currency traders, who fly in like some CEO to “bring the company round’.When after 5 – 6 years they fail and don’t get the top job, off they go. No commitment, no substance.
11. higherstandard 11

    13 October 2008 at 8:07 am

    Keep calm SP

    I very much doubt Clark gives a damn about what the National party say about her much as I doubt that Key gives a damn what Labour says about him.

    As for youtube debate questions these are bound to be attract the same kind of people who think it’s clever to graffiti campaign hoardings and distrubte fliers of politicians with their pants on fire.
12. higherstandard 12

    13 October 2008 at 8:10 am

    And in terms of bigots you’d have to be one of the most bigoted people I’ve ever come across
13. Robinsod 13

    13 October 2008 at 8:15 am

    Jeez HS – you’re getting angrier every day…
14. RedLogix 14

    13 October 2008 at 8:18 am

    And that’s it from from me for a day or two. Moving house…now. See ya’s.
15. higherstandard 15

    13 October 2008 at 8:42 am

    And you’re getting more ass-inine.

    He haw
16. Conor 16

    13 October 2008 at 8:43 am

    Robinsods comment very pertinent, English underlining it was Key wot cut Nz1st out of a post election deal
17. forgetaboutthelastone 17

    13 October 2008 at 9:14 am

    what about M Williamson holding up his upside-down National billboard? i lol’d.
18. Steve Pierson 18

    13 October 2008 at 9:22 am

    ‘ass-ine’ classic. bigoted? How so? Am I wrong to criticise Bill English and other Nats for making such offensive remarks?
19. illuminatedtiger 19

    13 October 2008 at 10:00 am

    Helen has fared remarkably well over the past 27 years of tory attacks and other beatups. With Key on the other hand it’s easy to see the grey hairs and the wrinkles – after only, what 18 months? I’m sorry Tory boy but if you are having issues managing your stress in opposition being PM will be a whole new kettle of fish!
20. randal 20

    13 October 2008 at 10:05 am

    he’s got a “loose” wig too!
21. higherstandard 21

    13 October 2008 at 10:06 am

    SP

    Biggoted in relation to the Nats – you can’t seem to post about them without ranting on about fat old white men, born to rule rich boys, misogynist murderers etc etc.

    It’s like the bloggers of the right frothing about the lesbian left wing labour party and their plans to have all men exterminated and families outlawed
22. higherstandard 22

    13 October 2008 at 10:06 am

    Best he take some advice from Winston or Peter Dunne then Randal.
23. Rodney Grub 23

    13 October 2008 at 10:08 am

    . . . and did I hear Matthew Hooten say to Winston on Eye to Eye “don’t laugh like a girl”?
24. Steve Pierson 24

    13 October 2008 at 10:18 am

    HS. we don’t have to tolerate the intolerant, we should have the courage to attack them for what they are.

    The misogyny (and racism, and homophobia, and anti-poor attitudes) we see coming from the Tories is deeply rooted in the mindset of a group that beleives it has a pre-ordained right to rule.
25. higherstandard 25

    13 October 2008 at 10:23 am

    That’s fine SP I understand now.

    One can only be accused of being bigoted if it’s people that you personally disagree with.
26. Clint Heine 26

    13 October 2008 at 10:48 am

    Pfffft, you guys are strong enough to ignore that clip. I’ve seen far nastier stuff on You Tube about both parties. The question does go begging – why all the photoshopping? This election is about TRUST. 🙂

    [lprent: Removed you from moderation – haven’t had a reason to moderate for a while. BTW: What is it with all of the shouting in pale blue on your site?]
27. J Mex 27

    13 October 2008 at 11:08 am

    Come on. There’s not one person that’s seen those billboards and thought – “that’s not the real Helen Clark…”

    You need to direct your disdain to the Labour campaign team, who thought they couldn’t win an election without trying, as you say, to make Clark look like a former beauty queen.
28. Daveski 28

    13 October 2008 at 11:25 am

    Wild and unsupported comments like SP’s shouldn’t be tolerated – as pointed out gross generalisations could be thrown at Labour supporters and LP would rightfully boot me.

    The ultimate irony of accusing the Nats of personalising the election is that SP has been waging a one-person campaign against Key for some months.

    “We don’t have to tolerate the intolerant” – how very dangerous. Any one who doesn’t agree with your values and viewpoints I assume is intolerant. Not what I would have expected from champions of free speech.

    [lprent: We’re not the champions of free speech, I think you have us confused with someone else – probably where the comments sections have degenerated into the lowest common denominator sewer. We’d prefer to operate with free speech, however there are too many numb nuts who appear to seldom use their brain for much except screaming what their beliefs are (and never bothering to listen). It interferes with dialogue.

    This is an opinion site, and you’re reading a post reflecting an opinion of SP. You’re welcome to disagree – we’re tolerant of dissenting views.

    However you’re also confusing our moderation policies with the opinions of the posters. I’m personally not particularly tolerant of the types of views that my late great-grandmother had to put up with at the start of the 20th century (as she vehemently expressed). Expressors of those opinions usually don’t have a point to their comments, just some kind of anger. We mainly keep them off the site because their main aim seems to be to start flamewars. In other words we dislike their behaviour.

    However if someone can argue rationally for a conservative (or any other) viewpoint, then their behaviour doesn’t offend and they don’t get moderated or banned.

    That is tolerance – it is not a ‘right’ to free speech. They are two quite separate ways of operating.]
29. Ben R 29

    13 October 2008 at 11:46 am

    “old, fat, white men”

    No bigotry in that statement? I suppose old white men are uniquely racist, intolerant, greedy, and violent by nature? No other groups display in-group/outgroup biases, ethnocentric or sexist views?
30. QoT 30

    13 October 2008 at 11:52 am

    Holy shit, Clark’s 58? I would quite honestly never have guessed.

    All the people rabbiting on about “photoshop = no trust” have clearly not been paying attention to any pictorial media produced in this society in at least the past 50 years.
31. relic 31

    13 October 2008 at 12:00 pm

    Well once you start gauging old white obese blokes by their politics as well, then I am afraid that SP is generally on the mark. Chat to a tory that has no reason to suspect that you are not one of them and wait for the spiteful torrentI do this in a rural area. Some tory women are ballistic on Helen C particularly too. Someone else can investigate the psychology of that!

    I don’t think bigotry is an equal opportunity state of being ie being a left leaning bigot. It is a poisonous quality that sometimes has nasty real world effects and deserves no quarter.
32. Policy Parrot 32

    13 October 2008 at 12:20 pm

    Until he recants, this guy is going to be laughed out of every job/career opportunity that is connected to anyone who happens to be pro-Labour.

    This is the same type of person who would be calling Obama a “terrorist” – a bigot straight out of the Palin playbook. Its not OK to be a big0t. Key should come out and denounce these ad hoemenum attacks as unacceptable – but he wont – because people who hold such views form a large percentage of his voters.
33. Daveski 33

    13 October 2008 at 12:22 pm

    Relic and others

    Let’s say I was to make comments about a discussion I had with a Maori or Samoan and then tried to claim it was representative of all such people.

    Guess what you’d call me then.

    The issue is not that these people don’t exist. They do. But SP is claiming ALL exhibit these qualities. Poor indeed and detracts IMO from the constructive posts he makes with all those damn charts!
34. Ben R 34

    13 October 2008 at 12:36 pm

    “This is the same type of person who would be calling Obama a “terrorist’ – a bigot straight out of the Palin playbook.”

    Well, the ‘terrorist’ Obama is accused of “palling around with”, William Ayers, is white, so I’m not sure bigot is the right word in that context. Misleading seems more appropriate.

    The McCain campaign has actually avoided some more obvious attack points like the ACORN association & Jeremiah Wright. I think they have just in the last few days done an ad on ACORN, which has been involved in voter fraud.

    It’s not surprising the McCain campaign has avoided this. The media accuse Republicans of racism on the most contrived of pretexts (for instance the NY Times suggested the Britney & Paris ad was appealing to fears of interacial s8x, while the William Ayers association was suggested as ‘racially tinged’). The media seem to have the same view as SP, that whites are uniquely greedy & nasty, so any criticism of non-whites is immediately suspect.
35. Pascal's bookie 35

    13 October 2008 at 12:46 pm

    Ben, heard of Lee Atwater?
36. Ari 36

    13 October 2008 at 12:47 pm

    You know what, they should really look in the mirror before they go criticising Helen Clark. At least her pictures look okay after they’ve been retouched. 😛

    In an ideal world, we wouldn’t need retouching for politician’s photos. But sadly, in this world, people judge politicians far too much by their appearance, and not enough by their leadership ability- and this is even more true for female politicians like Helen Clark. Even if John Key didn’t try to smarten himself up on his billboards- he’d still be at an advantage, because as a man he’s judged by his appearance to a lesser extent.
37. Ben R 37

    13 October 2008 at 12:57 pm

    “Ben, heard of Lee Atwater?”

    Yep, and I read he actually apologised before he passed away!

    The McCain campaign is being run by Steve Schmidt who worked on the 2004 Bush campaign under Rove, and they are running a typically dirty campaign. Given that they’re lying about a number of things, you’d expect them though to also mention things like Jeremiah Wright, or the ACORN association. I think the fact they haven’t is because the media will accuse them of racism. I’m not sure that bringing up the dodgy practices that ACORN were involved in is necessarily racist though. Also, Palin’s wacky religious beliefs have also been brought up.
38. Pascal's bookie 38

    13 October 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Yep, Atwater apologised. Doesn’t mean the GOP stopped dogwhistling.

    The ACORN stuff is mostly a beat up. Registration fraud is not in any way the same thing as voter fraud.

    Palin’s religious beliefs have gotten very little attention compared to Wright. To argue otherwise is just insane.
39. Ben R 39

    13 October 2008 at 1:03 pm

    “sadly, in this world, people judge politicians far too much by their appearance, and not enough by their leadership ability ”

    Very true – attractive photogenic politicians like JFK, Obama & Bill Clinton do have a major advantage.
40. Pascal's bookie 40

    13 October 2008 at 1:04 pm

    The typical Rove/Atwater operation has surrogates doing the dirty work. The official campaign stears clear.
41. lprent 41

    13 October 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Daveski: On that I’d agree. Not all conservatives wish to return to social structures at the end of the 19th century. Especially my conservative female friends.

    SP probably overstated that case to make his point. However he was talking about two particular people also expressing their opinion and effectively stating how close to a stereotype they conformed. Now I have to say that watching those two idiots made my blood boil as well – but I was slightly more restrained (as you can see from my comment first up on this thread).

    I’d agree with SP that it is a crappy look for the conservatives when you get the same old stupid idiocies about female appearance not only from the nutters, but also from the deputy leader of the main conservative party. What in the hell does it matter if Key looks like a penguin. Or Helen looks like she is aging. You’d have to wonder who in the hell he was trying to send that message to – his daughters?
42. Ben R 42

    13 October 2008 at 1:07 pm

    “Palin’s religious beliefs have gotten very little attention compared to Wright. To argue otherwise is just insane.”

    I don’t know about that – about the first thing I heard about Palin was that she thought the Flintstones was based on a true story. I thought the reason the Wright thing got such major play was because of the YouTube footage rather than the media actually investigating. I think Palin has been pretty effectively branded as a religious wacko who is a female version of George W Bush, but less intelligent (of course that does actually seem to be the case).
43. randal 43

    13 October 2008 at 1:08 pm

    the reason the tories are bigots is this. they believe that somehow the possession of money has conferred upon them a right to do what they like and what they like to do is bash people around because as Adam smith opined so many years ago now that command over labour provides the greatest psychological satisfaction. They cant pick on their mates so they go for anybody not able to fight back and more importantly who they are most scared of. The poor and the coloured. q.e.d.
44. Ben R 44

    13 October 2008 at 1:17 pm

    “the reason the tories are bigots is this”

    Randal, being intolerant to people who are different to you, or who hold different views, occurs in all human societies. You certainly don’t need to be in possession of money to be bigoted.

    [randal is not saying all bigots are rich. SP]
45. Daveski 45

    13 October 2008 at 3:24 pm

    LP – agreed

    My frustration as I think it’s clear is that I believe that Maori could benefit more from working with National such being the vagaries of MMP.

    Maori economic independence sits natively with National’s pro-business – Maori sovereignty may not site so comfortably with National, but economic independence does.

    I readily agree that some nats are still in the 19C. Not all. And if the Nats could be smarter, they could develop a strong relationship for the betterment of NZ.

    Sadly for my viewpoint, I see a majority of Maori are still of the opinion that their best interests are served by voting Labour. I’d love to see the Maori Party bringing something different to the table with the Nats.
46. lprent 46

    13 October 2008 at 3:44 pm

    There is a difference between the economic objectives espoused by the Nay’s and Maori iwi organisations. At least according to my understanding from family involved in it either directly or observing.

    The iwi corps are building or trying to build a long-term asset base largely in long-term property investments (sort of a reverse land-grab). They are often leasing these out in multi-decade leases. They then use the revenues to finance the types of things that they need in their communities. Some they are using to finance their way into purchasing other land. Obviously the reason for this is that they are planning on running century long acquisition campaigns, which they can do because the ownership is vested in the iwi itself. Hopefully, it is a lot more difficult to alienate than in the 19C. Of course they are acutely aware of what happened in the 19C with the government writing laws to allow asset alienation by changing the ownership arrangements away from the customary in-common hapu/iwi ‘ownership’.

    Normal business people do not do that kind of long-term planning. By Maori standards they are all short-term get-rich speculators. The nearest western analogy to what the iwi are doing is the churches who operate on a similar time scales. Guess what, they don’t like the speculators getting access to their businesses either.
47. Dom 47

    14 October 2008 at 8:37 am

    Did anyone else notice how National used ‘We Are Family’ at their launch – a tried and tested gay anthem? Sort of ironic, given how many of them voted against Civil Unions… Then again, perhaps they trying to encourage the closeted National gay male MPs to come out…

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS