WhaleOil – Technically Challenged

109 comments on “WhaleOil – Technically Challenged ”

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1. Skeptic 1

   17 June 2008 at 10:16 pm

   Nice attempt at confusing people with tech babble spin Lynne. Except for one thing. The Labour Party isn’t part of the voluntary or charitable sector. It is a professional political party, with millions of dollars in assets, and through its proxies and affiliates in the EPMU and other affiliated unions, indirectly controls massive amounts of resources at its disposal for campaigning. Add in the resources of incombent government and it will spend another hundred million dollars promoting itself this year.

   Because of a law that the Standard’s writers actively promoted, even the Prime Minister’s office looks like it will have to register as a third party under the electoral finance act.

   Given that the Standard has constantly silenced anybody who’s pointed out the very obvious links between the Labour Party and the Standard, silencing anybody who points out that some of the Standard’s authors appear to be employed by the engineers union, the prime minister’s office and the labour party, it is relevant that you established the labour party’s domain.
2. illuminatedtiger 2

   17 June 2008 at 10:51 pm

   I wouldn’t even bother dignifying him with a response lp – he has nothing. All this latest rant shows is his technical incompetence.
3. KenS 3

   17 June 2008 at 10:59 pm

   How is that leaky apartment? Hope you have Labour’s servers away from the water. Bit like the great ship Labour, re-arrange the beck chairs before … you know, the sink.
4. Dean 4

   17 June 2008 at 11:02 pm

   “All this latest rant shows is his technical incompetence.”

   That might be the case, but I still think it’s interesting that the only author on this site who has “outed” themselves is SP. Which is horribly ironic given the amount of flak they give to bloggers who do make disclosure statements, all the while claiming anonymity will save them from abuse.

   LP is good enough to nail his colours to the wall, and SP too. The rest can make all the excuses they want, but then that does seem to be par for the course for the self-confessed “left”.

   (captcha “standard this”.)
5. KenS 5

   17 June 2008 at 11:05 pm

   I bet you rent, being a Labour person and ipso facto, a loser and all.
6. sweeetd 6

   17 June 2008 at 11:12 pm

   where/when did you get your MBA?
7. KenS 7

   17 June 2008 at 11:19 pm

   What a pack of wankers. Labour is fucked. Heh, they send in their IT guy to argue their case. Fuck, we lock ours in the basement. Where they can’t do any damage. Yup, Labour is truley fucked.

   IrishBill says: Banned for a month.
8. non 8

   17 June 2008 at 11:21 pm

   Sweeetd, the Lagos School of Economics.
9. sweeetd 9

   17 June 2008 at 11:26 pm

   Some other students;

   “Former Immigration Chief Mary-Anne Thompson is under investigation by police over allegations she falsified her CV, lying about a doctorate from the prestigious London School of Economics. What are some of the issues surrounding the controversy?

   Thompson claims she actually graduated from the Lagos School of Economics, a Nigerian based online University and stated as such on her CV.”

   Did you study with her?
   
   IrishBill says: banned for a week.
10. deemac 10

    17 June 2008 at 11:44 pm

    the truly pathetic comments posted here – schoolyard level stuff, long on abuse and bad language, short on anything approaching facts – show (a) they have no case, so don’t waste your time responding and (b) they are sad, bitter people who imagine everyone is as mean spirited and spiteful as they are
11. Patrick 11

    17 June 2008 at 11:56 pm

    So really, no one on the right actually has any point to argue against Lynn, do they?

    Well done Lynn, you’re doing a fantastic job, not only for The Standard but for whatever other people and organizations you choose to gift your time and expertise too.

    And it is very amusing watching Cameron and David sniffing like rats through their Apache logs desperately trying to find some dirt.
12. lprent 12

    17 June 2008 at 11:56 pm

    I see that the usual lusers have come over from the technically illiterate site.

    Well apart from Skeptic who while he didn’t know the correct word and had to work around it (begins with ‘ob’).

    S: Where have I ever said that I wasn’t a labour party supporter, activist, and donate time and money to them.

    People have been ‘silenced’ for is saying that I’m lying when I say that I pay for the site. Other people have been ‘silenced’ for saying posters are lying. Can you explain to me why on my own site, wither they or I should put up with dickheads blowing large with no proof, no rationale, or even a credible theory? They get in the way of discussion but we got tired of the repetition’s.

    KenS: Having a leaky building just makes me really REALLY ANGRY. Personally I wish I had something tangible to lash out at rather than spending so much money on court cases. Perhaps the morons from Whale’s site would provide something to work off the anger on.

    SweetD: University of Otago in 1990 according to the plaque on the wall. In fact I finished the course in 1986, but didn’t get around to completing course requirements like paying library fines until much later. I was having too much fun working. The director is up in Auckland soon (it is in the e-mail somewhere). Why don’t you ask him while you try to get entrance to the course?
13. sweeetd 13

    18 June 2008 at 12:00 am

    got one, last year, auckland uni. Geeze you come off sounding like a knob at times.
14. jbc 14

    18 June 2008 at 12:00 am

    Ummm… Skeptic and others; Lynn speaks the truth on this matter as far as I’m concerned (and I’m not a Labour supporter). Technical people tend to help others out on matter such as DNS registration and related low-cost services – often gratis.

    I worked with Lynn once, many years ago in some IT department where geeky matters where discussed, and he made no secret of his technical support of the Labour party. Big deal. Move along, nothing to see…

    So a long-standing supporter facilitates a blog with a labour-movement leaning. Where’s the news in that?

    PS: I heard a rumour that David Farrar is a National Party supporter. His blog seems to be right-leaning. Major Scoop!!! You read it here first.

    [lprent: Now you’ve got me curious…]
15. r0b 15

    18 June 2008 at 12:00 am

    Heh, they send in their IT guy to argue their case.

    If an IT case needs to be made, who better than an IT person to make it?

    Fuck, we lock ours in the basement. Where they can’t do any damage.

    What charming arrogance and stupidity. But of course you’re just ranting, because no one would be dumb enough to mistreat the only people who understand and can run their critical infrastructure. (“IT guys” are perfectly placed to extract their revenge, at least one on the inside probably had something to do with Don’s leaked emails).
16. lprent 16

    18 June 2008 at 12:06 am

    Now for the more rational comment.

    it: Yeah but I’m tired of the look alike crap that Whale tries to do even more incompetently than Wishart does. You know that they will try to cover lack of facts with insinuation and outright bullshit.

    Dean: What surprised me was how long that took. All it takes is a whereis and a few minutes to find out a lot about my activities. The reason I’m listed was because the requirements of InternetNZ require a valid name and address – much like the EFA does. The anonymous need for posters are because of idiots like KenS above, who has looked at my building festooned in scaffolding after looking at the address on the whereis.

    deemac: Oh but it useful reminder of relative levels of depravity. Of course if they get too repetitious then I will demonstrate what technical expertise can do.

    Patrick: yeah the volunteer work chews up a lot of good coding time – but it is usually fun.

    Lynn
17. lprent 17

    18 June 2008 at 12:08 am

    sweeetd – in that case you probably used one of my programs. I think that they run at least one of the management sims we wrote at Auckland Uni. I wrote them specifically to annoy MBA students worldwide as well as make money. Thank you for making a small contribution to the NZLP via my donations.
18. illuminatedtiger 18

    18 June 2008 at 12:11 am

    Helping others with DNS registration is certainly nothing new and there were never any rules against it.

    Nice try though!
19. ramsey 19

    18 June 2008 at 12:21 am

    Last time I looked this wasn’t a site devoted to geek circle jerking but maybe I’ve missed a trick.

    Take your tech talk to the appropriate usegroup please.

    I never ever want to hear any discussion about 300 series redirects ever again please.

    It makes me feel dirty.
20. lprent 20

    18 June 2008 at 12:28 am

    ramsey: ok – that has to be the best comment to date on the thread.

    So to help you with the technical education progress – here is a link to the current list of http return codes

    Status Code Definitions
21. jbc 21

    18 June 2008 at 12:33 am

    Lynn,

    Heh. A whois on my email will get a name… Not sure of that would help the memory though. You weren’t permanently in the office so I suspect a contractor. Roughly 14+ years ago. Anyways, no need to worry. I’m not one of those stalker commenters above.

    It always pisses me off when some tech person’s name comes up in some registry (DNS, APNIC, ARIN, RADB, whatever) and then all kinds of ignorant stupidity follows (eg Whaleoil).

    The emails I used to get while my name was on some ISP netblock.

    Let the nonsense continue…

    [lprent: 🙂 it always does – catch you later]
22. Skeptic 22

    18 June 2008 at 12:44 am

    So let’s see, Lynne. I appreciate you don’t lie about your Labour Party connections and have always been upfront about it.

    The issue is whether the Standard is a Labour Party proxy blog. To understand whether it is, we can consider the follow facts. Correct me if I’m wrong on any of this:

    1. Lynne Prentice is a labour party activist who also set up the Labou rParty domain and is still the registered owner of that domain. Lynne Pretnice also set up the standard website and manages it.

    2. The Standard claims it is not a labour party front.

    3. Several of the Standard’s posters are understood to be employees of the engineers union (an affiliate of the Labour Party, which has the Labour Party vice president and likely next president as its leader), the Prime Ministers office and Labour party employees. While none of the standard’s posters have ever denied this, they make a policy of banning anybody who mentions it. There’s been a lot of evidence to support this understanding, but whoever mentions it is shouted down and deleted by getting called a liar with no right of reply. The standard’s list of banned commenters must be a record for a new zealand blog.

    4. Over 95% of the Standard’s postings attack John Key or the National Party.

    When we consider that the Standards only defence for the electoral finance act last year was the catch cry of the EXCLUSIVE BRETHREN and how they supposedly ran a shady, anonymous campaign attacking Labour and the greens at the last election and how the EFA guaranteed accountability and transparency in elections it is totally ironic that the standard appears to be a secretive front blog attacking national.
23. r0b 23

    18 June 2008 at 12:52 am

    Well Skeptic, Lynn is sure going to have fun with that one! So many mistakes, and “a secretive front blog” as well! I’ll get some popcorn.

    And I wouldn’t usually do this, but ‘Sod is banned and Billy isn’t here, so just to keep the flame alive (it’s what they would have wanted) – it’s “Standard’s only defence” Skeptic, “Standard’s” – the possessive apostrophe please!
24. illuminatedtiger 24

    18 June 2008 at 12:59 am

    Skeptic reminds me of an annoying 8 year old nark who claims to have “all the evidence” and then begins to write a list in his colouring book to show the teacher after lunch. It’s cute, a great work of fiction even. Too bad it’s a load of crap when presented to a rational adult.
25. lprent 25

    18 June 2008 at 1:02 am

    Scribe – Ok
    1. Wrong. I do not own labour.org.nz which is the NZLP’s domain. I own labour.co.nz, where I have given a www redirect to labour.org.nz. I changed the owner name to the NZLP, so if I lapse the domain, the NZLP can get first dibs at it. That means that for instance 0800Labour (a commercial labouring company) doesn’t.

    3. Wrong – as far as I’m aware there are some unionists who post here. That does not mean that they are doing it for their union or in their work time.

    I do my comments etc during my breaks and compiles at work. So do most of the commentators. At least I hope so – otherwise we’re helping reduce productivity.

    Posts are written the same way (it is sometimes fascinating to look at them being rewritten). There are usually about 40-50 posts in progress or abandoned in the back end of the standard at any one time. I’ve seen up to 4 posts scheduled to come out at different times of the day.

    People get banned for saying that posters or myself are lying and NEVER producing any evidence to support the claim.

    4. Wrong Count it up sometime, use a minimum base of at least 1 month and it never gets close to 95%. Have a look at the About Us and ask yourself why people who support the labour movement (including unions) would not be concerned about a party and leader that clain to have no clear labour market policy.

    If you get some particularly daft idiocies from the nats you might get a few days at that level.

    Besides I think that John Key is a sock puppet and the Nat’s are a party that had their philosophical basis cored out of them decades ago. They make a good comedy act as they strain towards the elusive power trip. Look a bit like long-term junkies.

    Like all junkies they and their supporters tend towards bad behaviour (like some of the commentators around here on the odd occasion). The Iwi/Kiwi billboard campaign was a clear attempt to rort the last election by running a massive campaign outside of the electoral period. So the electoral period got extended to cover the true length of the electoral campaign. Other sundry matters got tidied up at the same time. The things they did were legal, but hardly moral.

    captcha: Yes fatigue
    Like me – off to bed
26. jbc 26

    18 June 2008 at 1:11 am

    Umm, and Skeptic, just to fan the flame a little more: your attention to detail is lacking. Lynn’s name has been correctly spelled many times above (including signing off the original post).

    I also suspect you have not taken the time to read the ‘About’ link at the top of the page. It answers your questions.

    Remember: you and I have both chosen anonymity too.

    I don’t agree with everything posted here but I feel strangely compelled to defend the posters on this matter.
27. ramsey 27

    18 June 2008 at 1:15 am

    😉
28. Skeptic 28

    18 June 2008 at 1:23 am

    Okay lynne like I say I didn’t accuse you of lying, just deliberately spinning away using tech babble to do it. You have said before what your links to the labour party are, and you’re the only poster on here to do so. I never said that the standards posters lie about their affiliations, but they do deliberately conceal them and go to great efforts to say that they are simply an interested group of left-wingers. That isn’t the whole truth, and you know it. It’s good to see that somebody has acknowledged that some of the posters are paid employees of a union, and we know which one it is because it’s affiliated to the Labour Party. We knew that already. It’s also clear that at least one of the posters is employed in the prime ministers office and another one at labour party headquarters.

    These are material facts that go to whether the Standard is a front blog for the labour party. After the fiasco last year when the Standard was caught out being given labour party server space (correct me if I’m wrong on this but Mike Williams did seem to admit it and there was a lot of techno-babble designed to confuse readers about what was going on) and the standard’s position as a labour party front blog becomes much clearer.

    [lprent: I don’t know that some posters are union employees (and neither do you), but from the general knowledge of settlements, comments and posts it would seem likely. The other employers I have no idea of – basically you are just stupidly pissing into the wind – it makes you look like an idiot.

    It is my blog site. Not the NZLP’s. For some reason the blog posters here are mainly sympathetic to the left – that was how it was organized at the start. Just as the people frequent Whales seem to have severe personality problems.

    I’m getting tired of answering the same thing from you again.]
    
29. r0b 29

    18 June 2008 at 1:33 am

    Skeptic, your overuse of the term “tech babble” isn’t doing you any favours. If you don’t understand the issues, perhaps you shouldn’t be commenting on them?

    It’s good to see that somebody has acknowledged that some of the posters are paid employees of a union

    They may or may not be, but as far as I know it hasn’t been acknowledged anywhere.

    It’s also clear that at least one of the posters is employed in the prime ministers office and another one at labour party headquarters.

    Clear to you maybe, but utterly baseless speculation out here in the real world. “Skeptic” you really should apply your name to evaluating the rumours that you read on Kiwiblog, instead of going round repeating them as fact because they fit your Labour hating agenda.
30. expat 30

    18 June 2008 at 2:18 am

    My technical skill set is ‘bigger’ than your technical skill set.

    Whaheeey!

    Its all going on here chaps!

    I agree with ramsey, how could I not I hear you say, its all getting a wee bit nerdy.

    [lprent: If Whale chooses to get technical, then we should really see if there are any skills under the blubber. I’m aware it isn’t his best suit – but hey he picked the topic. I just answered it.]
31. Skeptic 31

    18 June 2008 at 3:09 am

    By rumour and “baseless speculation”, rob, do you mean of the kind that the Standard has engaged in recently when it alleged that John Key bought his seat into the National Party by supposedly donating huge amounts of money, or do you mean of the kind on the standard where it says that john key got drunk with journalists at the matterhorn after boozing with journalists and then proceeded to slag off his own caucus?

    Or do you only oppose speculation when it’s not labour good national bad?
32. Felix 32

    18 June 2008 at 3:38 am

    we know which one it is because it’s affiliated to the Labour Party. We knew that already. It’s also clear that at least one of the posters is employed in the prime ministers office and another one at labour party headquarters.

    Skeptic, if “we” really know all these things then why don’t “we” offer some proof, any shred of evidence, anything at all to back them up?

    Also as r0b points out, it’s partly your embarrassing lack of understanding of even the most elemental DNS concepts which has allowed whaleoil to play you like such a fool.

    You’re less than an hour’s worth of reading away from understanding what lprent is talking about so why not give it a go? You might actually be able to keep up with the discussion.

    Start by googling “domain name system” and see where it takes you. You’re reading blogs at 3 in the morning so I’d say you’ve got some time on your hands.
33. r0b 33

    18 June 2008 at 8:22 am

    By rumour and “baseless speculation’, rob, do you mean of the kind that the Standard has engaged in recently

    When The Standard posts something which is a rumour that they can’t fully back up they say so very clearly, and state the basis for their speculation. No false claims. Compare and contrast with your straight assertion of fact: “It’s also clear that at least one of the posters is employed in the prime ministers office and another one at labour party headquarters.”

    Or do you only oppose speculation when it’s not labour good national bad?

    I don’t oppose speculation at all if it is clearly presented as speculation. I object to anyone presenting speculation as fact (which you have done in pursuit of your national good labour bad agenda). Skeptic? More like Shill.
34. vto 34

    18 June 2008 at 8:23 am

    Holy IT Ding dong batman, there are a lot of peeps who don’t sleep much.

    And argue over I’m not sure what actually … Name-calling perhaps?
35. lukas 35

    18 June 2008 at 8:27 am

    r0b…”When The Standard posts something which is a rumour that they can’t fully back up they say so very clearly, and state the basis for their speculation. No false claims.”

    Funny… I could have sworn I read some rumours about what John Key said at the ‘Horn yesterday posted on this site… no hard evidence to back it up, but put across as hard facts.

    All the rest of this techno stuff goes over my head… thats why geeks were invented!

    [lprent: thank you (I think). But geeks seem to get born that way and train later]
36. Anita 36

    18 June 2008 at 8:28 am

    One of The Standard’s NSes is on the Orcon network. Orcon is owned by Kordia, Kordia is an SOE, Minister for SOEs is Trevor Mallard, Mallard is also Minister for the Environment. QED

    Now I have proof that it is all a secret plot by the Labour-Green government to ban free speech can I guest post on Whale Oil?
37. r0b 37

    18 June 2008 at 8:47 am

    Funny I could have sworn I read some rumours about what John Key said at the ‘Horn yesterday posted on this site no hard evidence to back it up, but put across as hard facts.

    No Felix, put across as what it was, speculation based on rumour. Let’s start with the title of the post: “What went on at the ‘horn?” – spot the question mark? Know what it means? Then the opening sentence: “Reports have been circulating around Wellington…” tags this as based on rumour. And at the end: “Before the right wing commenters start attacking this as all just rumour and gossip, they might like to check with their National Party friends”, an acknowledgement that the post can be seen as rumour and an invitation to the reader to check for themselves. In short, not put across as “hard facts” by any stretch of the imagination.
38. lukas 38

    18 June 2008 at 8:53 am

    Might want to put some tags on the post to reflect that then…
    It is clearly implied in the tone of SP’s post and of the posts comments that it is indisputable that it happened.
39. burt 39

    18 June 2008 at 9:05 am

    lprent

    It looks like he has finally managed to read a DNS.

    OMG, you mean people are not born knowing how to read a DNS ?

    WhaleOil must be denigrated, he’s just worked out how to do what about 2% of the population know how to do…. OMG I can’t believe that WhaleOil isn’t all over this DNS thing… No wonder he’s he just a political blogger and not some super geek!

    Get real lpren – reading a DNS is about as simple as having a shit, but lets be honest here, most internet users use the internet and as tech-heads it’s our job to keep it at that level for them, not mock them for not knowing the shit we need to know to do our jobs.

    Do you know how to correctly wire a sewage pump on a rising main?

    [lprent: Slightly different levels of skills. In this case anyone can do it with no skills. Try this link. Type in whaleoil.co.nz, press enter. Then look at the full info. It is TRIVIAL. Whois for domains is all over the net.]
40. r0b 40

    18 June 2008 at 9:13 am

    All the rest of this techno stuff goes over my head thats why geeks were invented!

    Geeks rule! And we have a much more exciting lifestyle than is commonly imagined too:
    http://www.igeek.com/articles/Humor/Support/DrugDealersProgrammers.humor
41. burt 41

    18 June 2008 at 9:16 am

    lprent

    The changing stories about ‘The Standard’ and it’s association with Labour are the most telling, not WhaleOil’s ability to read a DNS.

    The initial position was naive disclosure… We’ve just been given a brank spanking new server cluster.

    That was quickly followed by… It was a temporary hosting, only a few weeks.

    Followed by complete denial that there was an association at all.

    Then the saga continued and people got banned all over the show for asking questions or making suggestions, as has happened in this thread.

    It’s just laughable, the anon authors of the standard supported the EFA and the disclosure and transparency implications yet you continue to hide behind a thin (and changing) veil of nonsense about the association with Labour.

    Get over yourselves!
42. lukas 42

    18 June 2008 at 9:24 am

    heh good link rOb
43. burt 43

    18 June 2008 at 9:32 am

    rOb

    “Geeks rule!” You bet, they run this show!

    They are the railway barons of the new millennium. 🙂
44. higherstandard 44

    18 June 2008 at 9:39 am

    Geeks can also be crooks (no I’m not suggesting you Lynn)

    But remember y2k anyone ? We had loons running around the hospitals like lunatics telling us the world was about to end – they must’ve made a fortune.
45. Matthew Pilott 45

    18 June 2008 at 9:40 am

    WhaleOil must be denigrated, he’s just worked out how to do what about 2% of the population know how to do . OMG I can’t believe that WhaleOil isn’t all over this DNS thing No wonder he’s he just a political blogger and not some super geek!

    Burt, if whale wants do have a techno-style rant, then he should get his facts right. If he hasn’t got them right then he can be legitimately be attacked for it. Your ignorant DNS rant just shows you’re as much of an idiot as he.

    Honestly, the things you write boggle my mind sometimes, if only for their sheer stupidity.
46. James Kearney 46

    18 June 2008 at 9:43 am

    What a laugh. Whale should stick to photoshopping kids’ faces onto porn.
47. burt 47

    18 June 2008 at 9:56 am

    lprent

    RE: the domain name you say.

    That was registered by myself a long time ago (early 90’s from memory) to give uucp e-mail addresses to labour party members in my electorate. This was before any political party apart from the greens had figured out that there was a net.

    OK, like some other people you were an early adopter of the internet and therefore saw it’s potential earlier than most. I get that.

    You then say.

    It was done to show my skeptical local politician of the potential of the net for NZ and its exports,

    Excellent, that was a good move. Uptake of ‘the net’ was rapid when it happened, the ‘packaged internet solutions’ made it accessible as people didn’t need to learn a whole pile of stuff like looking up and reading DNS. However email, as communication tool, had already been widely adopted by companies as an internal communication mechanism. Larger companies or govt departments were often using leased lines to connect between locations. Geeks had been allover it for years and the public were just catching on.

    So I don’t get this bit ?

    … and has probably helped a lot of IT companies as a consequence.

    [lprent: My usual electorate is Mt Albert (that is where I grew up) – so my local MP was at the time the deputy leader of the opposition, and is now PM. It means that she was a much earlier adopter of net technologies than most of her age group.
    Boundary changes now have me in that alien electorate of Auckland Central.]
48. burt 48

    18 June 2008 at 10:01 am

    Matthew Pilott

    Can you a bit more specific about the ignorance in my rant, I’m interested to know what part showed I had no idea what I was talking about.
49. thehairyarmpit 49

    18 June 2008 at 10:08 am

    Camoron Slater will say anything and do anything to get traffic hits for his crappy blog. He is an abomination and he shouldn’t allowed anywhere a computer or woman and children.
50. Matthew Pilott 50

    18 June 2008 at 10:19 am

    Burt, I think it was the bit where you criticised Lynn for his critique of whale. You know, where whale tried to be all technical, and lynn showed that he’s wrong, but you didn’t think it’s ok to criticise someone about their DNS knowledge despite that being the foundation of the enitre comment.

    Tell me you see the inherent idiocy in that.

    Imagine that I wrote an article about turnips. Lynn then attacks me for my abjectly poor knowledge of turnips. Then you come along and say “Not everyone knows everything about turnips! Get over yourself Lynn!”

    Now that would be a bit silly since my initial post was turnip-related, and my turnip knowledge was limited in relation to Lynn’s.

    Honestly, where you come up with these angles never ceases to amaze, Burt.
51. burt 51

    18 June 2008 at 10:33 am

    Matthew Pilott

    It think it was you that missed the point.

    Imagine that Lynn wrote an article about turnips. WhaleOil then attacks Lynn, pointing out that when Lynn said turnips, Lynn actually wrote about carrots but just changed the word ‘carrots’ to ‘turnips’ and had a picture of a turnip on the front cover.

    Lynn then justifies his long association with carrots, but claims a little spray paint and they all look the same and it’s no issue.. He’s always been a turnip, not a carrot and WhaleOil is an ignorant gardener.

    However I do agree WhaleOil’s flown a pretty feeble kite, but it looks like it’s still getting plenty of lift all the same. Perhaps it’s structurally sound even though it’s been shot at repeatedly.
52. bill brown 52

    18 June 2008 at 10:57 am

    After the fiasco last year when the Standard was caught out being given labour party server

    This was great, before this I didn’t know that the Standard existed but the free publicity advertised it very well.
53. lprent 53

    18 June 2008 at 11:00 am

    burt: Or it is just hard to damage hot air?

    You have to remember that the only thing that Whale actually said in his post was that I’m billed for labour.co.nz but the NZLP is listed as the owner. The reason for that I’ve explained above. It means that the NZLP has a right to claim the domain if I lapse it.

    Everything else was just pure hot air based around the fact I have an old AMD running as a network server under my desk at home, and that I use that server to help people. It acts as a secondary dns for The Standard and as a mail server for my domain labour.co.nz.

    I realise the whale is a bit illiterate, but this is the third time he has directly attacked me. Each time he looks more like a technical fool.

    I’m just pointing this out to the audience outside geekdom.
54. dave 54

    18 June 2008 at 11:02 am

    I help the NZLP because I want to make sure we have literate politicians.
    I think you may need to help Chris Carter more.
55. lprent 55

    18 June 2008 at 11:12 am

    dave: I am but one person.

    But I’d urge techs to help their local politicians. They appreciate the help, and they tend to make more rational decisions about tech than they’d do otherwise.

    We need to prevent too many strange policies like the Nat’s current 1.5b broadband policy. That looks like being a disaster if it was ever implemented the way it has been spun.

    It does nothing for helping the country make money – it just sounds good to people who don’t understand the issues.
56. burt 56

    18 June 2008 at 11:16 am

    lprent

    I think what you do is great, assuming that all details such as any consulting you bill the Labour party for is correctly attributed where appropriate then well done. You are doing a great job, your dedication makes you a role model. I don’t doubt for one moment you do a lot of voluntary work for this blog.

    The issue that WhaleOil, and others, will however continue to make head way on is that the standard has a, at best, murky relationship with Labour. Labour and the authors of the standard supported the EFA and the transparency, accountability and openness that it implied. Yet more and more emerges requiring more and more detailed analysis of the intertwined relationships between ‘the standard’ and Labour.

    I think life would be a lot easier if Labour simply costed an allowance for your time and the hardware/network costs as a donation to Labour and we got on with it. You guys (the standard) could then hold up a big fat “Not guilty” sign when people accuse you of “do as we say – not as we do” in relation to the EFA.
57. lprent 57

    18 June 2008 at 11:30 am

    burt: But that would probably piss off the greens amongst our writers.
    Not to mention that it wouldn’t surprise me to find alliance supporters amongst the writers. The reason that the site works is that it is broad across the left and labour movement. That is wider than the NZLP

    The writers put in the work to make the site worth reading. I just run the technical parts of the blog and pay the small amount that is its cash requirement. It is a cooperative enterprise. The nice thing about the net is that you can run something like this without even meeting the people you’re cooperating with. We don’t have to have a single opinion, and we don’t even have to agree with each other. Just get on with the taks at hand and work on the bits we do agree on.

    There is another example of that at present in the auckland Drinking Liberally mail group. That is looking like we’ll catch up with the wellington social scene sometime.
58. burt 58

    18 June 2008 at 11:39 am

    lprent

    “burt: But that would probably piss off the greens amongst our writers.
    Not to mention that it wouldn’t surprise me to find alliance supporters amongst the writers.

    Transparency and openness in political advocacy are not trumped by complication. Complication is arguably what the EFA was designed to restrict.

    Apportion the site costs across Labour, Green … whoever you like. WhaleOil, and others, will continue to make headway as long as your affiliations are strong and undeclared.
59. r0b 59

    18 June 2008 at 11:40 am

    I think life would be a lot easier if Labour simply costed an allowance for your time and the hardware/network costs as a donation to Labour and we got on with it.

    Ummm – what?

    There’s this party called the Labour Party. There’s this blog called The Standard. Lynn does volunteer work for both. But that does not make The Standard a Labour Party blog.

    Here, let me put this in terms you might understand.

    There’s this party called the National Party. There’s this blog called Kiwiblog. DPF does volunteer work for both. But that does not make Kiwiblog a National Party blog.
60. burt 60

    18 June 2008 at 11:50 am

    rOb

    I did not say “You must do this because you are a Labour party blog”. That would a) get me banned and b) possibly be incorrect.

    I suggested that making a declaration (perhaps $5K – chickenfeed to a political party) this entire shitty mess would be a non issue. Brighter days ahead as debate moves back to politics and away from technicalities of who’s hosting who etc.

    [but it would be untrue. There is no political party funding of the blog. SP]
61. lprent 61

    18 June 2008 at 11:50 am

    rOb: Yes – now think WhaleOil.
    What party should we associate him with? And how long before we get denials.
62. lprent 62

    18 June 2008 at 12:00 pm

    burt: I’m more concerned about the writers on here. If the site was ‘funded’ by the NZLP, then I suspect some or most would leave.

    You have to remember that I’m the only declared NZLP supporter amongst the people with admin, moderator, and writing access. The only reason I was hauled in here origionally was to provide technical skills.

    After having the site attacked for some extremely technically stupid reasons, I got interested enough to give the site more time, and to provide some financial support to get a better server (and move to linux/apache). Similarly the writers seemed to get more motivated as well and the number of posts started to rise.

    As bill brown says, the success of this site can in large part be attributed to our publicists on the right.
63. burt 63

    18 June 2008 at 12:01 pm

    lprent

    So are you saying it would be untrue because the standard never used a Labour party sever, never resided on a Labour party server cluster or what? Untrue because you would have been closed down like other sites that were still using that server or what?

    If DPF and National or WhaleOil and National are using political party resources then they too should be outed and held to account as well. Will you accept long winded explanations about how it came to be they are one-in-the-same from only technical perspectives if that is all the justification they can offer to say they are separate?
64. r0b 64

    18 June 2008 at 12:03 pm

    this entire shitty mess would be a non issue

    The shitty mess is all in your head Burt, and it’s already a non issue. Or if it isn’t, why aren’t you over on Kiwiblog demanding that DPF declare a donation to National?

    rOb: Yes – now think WhaleOil.

    If it’s all the same to you Lynn, I’d really rather not!
65. lprent 65

    18 June 2008 at 12:26 pm

    burt: If there had been a friendly tech with a Act party server available then I’d have used that. The problem was that the site was falling over due to loading issues because it grew faster than I had time to cope with.

    We had a number of offers for hosting support. But it didn’t seem fair to use them because it’d have exposed the donator to being pilloried by the lunatic right for guilt by association. Just like Whale is trying to do with my former employer.

    Eventually I solved the problem by just paying for hosting myself. It is cheap compared to my time playing around keeping the site running with low resources. We also don’t have to play around with finding screen real estate for advertisments like Whales ugly site has, and I don’t have to concern myself with being aware of site statistics (or rorting them like Whale seems to be doing).
66. burt 66

    18 June 2008 at 12:33 pm

    lprent

    But it didn’t seem fair to use them because it’d have exposed the donator to being pilloried by the lunatic right for guilt by association.

    How is that attack in keeping with your previous comment;

    rOb: Yes – now think WhaleOil.
    What party should we associate him with? And how long before we get denials.

    lunatics on both sides I guess.
67. Matthew Pilott 67

    18 June 2008 at 12:41 pm

    Burt, you and your bloody turnips! Get this straight – whale wrote the first article on turnips. Lynn replied and called a turnip a turnip. From there on out your vegetable analogy falls apart like a steamed lettuce.

    Just read the rest of te thread. What you’re saying, essentially, is “I don’t understand what’s going on, and others might not either. Just to satisfy me, you should pay $5,000 to an undefined collection of political parties for volunteer time and services.”

    Get off it burt. That’s like saying a paperboy who delivers pamphlets in their spare time should bill the party for their time, because it’s a professional service. Hell, I used to get paid for delivering stuff – should I be billing for the deliveries I’ve been doing lately?

    As said, your lines of attack never cease to amaze – I reckon you must be wired differently, no one else from the right ever comes close to replicating your lines. I suppose it’s more refreshing than the odd troll who just repeats national party lines and talkback dross.
68. lprent 68

    18 June 2008 at 1:01 pm

    burt: Why should the lunatic right have all of the fun. There are some on the left who should be able to participate as well. Who are we to deprive the ‘sod, randall, and others their opportunity to harry a whale (just so long as they do the human type).

    I’m a centrist and a bit of a stirrer so when it isn’t directed at me I can just watch all of the fun.

    BTW: Matt is right – you are more interesting than the trolls.
69. lprent 69

    18 June 2008 at 1:42 pm

    burt: I just noticed the bit about consulting. I do quite a bit of that – but I do not charge. I’ve haven’t charged anyone for work outside my PAYE in more than 10 years. That alone would make it very hard to figure out a ‘cost’ for me. What hourly rate would you charge?

    What I do for work is not what I do in my voluntary work. What would be the point? I do things from outside of my immediate area of expertise to pick up new skills. I usually start using the new skills later in my job. So perhaps I should pay voluntary organisations for training?

    Frankly, it was too much hassle dealing with the IRD with provisional tax. I can’t estimate the amounts I’d earn in a year, so I make sure that it is zero. It makes the equation simplier. Now there is a tax system that does need reforming – provisional tax is so archaic.

    It also means that I’m very selective about who I support/help/assist.
70. burt 70

    18 June 2008 at 5:09 pm

    lprent

    Thewre is a new option for prov tax, it’s recently been introduced. It’s called the ratio method and you can read about it here. It’s apparently ideal for people who have significant fluctuations in their earning cycles. Seasonal workers, part time consultants that kind of thing.

    Understanding the ratio option

    I had a good look at it, understood how it works but haven’t jumped into it yet, this year my company will probably fall back into prov tax again for the first time in a few years, which is a bad thing and a good thing. As Sir Bob Jones once said – having lots of tax to pay is a big problem, a good problem but a big problem all the same.

    I suspect a few companies might be declaring slightly larger profits this year compared to last year, something about imputation credits at 30% rather than 33% and hedging your bets for the possibility of reductions in the top personal tax rate to cash in the credits – but what would I know ….
71. David Baigent 71

    18 June 2008 at 5:54 pm

    Hi Iprent,

    Are you the vector for the transfer of the emails to Winston Nicky Hagar and Helen Clark
72. James Kearney 72

    18 June 2008 at 6:03 pm

    David- hiliarous:

    http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/BB2EE9C4-05CA-424A-B025-ADC6F485197E/65438/DavidBaigent1.pdf
73. lprent 73

    18 June 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Interesting on the ratio option. It is in the finest tradition of the IRD – as obtruse as possible.

    But I gather they are using a ratio from the previous year based on the GST returns. Of most interest is the section on UMOI. That was always the major hassle with provo tax, and why I got off it.

    I always got peeved with having to estimate my income when I knew that the estimates were going to be way off. I got to the point where I’d under-estimate and stop working at the threshold. Then I figured it was easier to just ‘contract’ but make the employer to pay PAYE and buy my equipment. Since I really didn’t have any costs it came out quite similar without the pain of dealing with the IRD – which was a real distraction from programming.

    Thanks for that. There are a few people who’d be interested in that.

    captcha: Smaller work
    That thing is freaky sometimes.
74. dad4justice 74

    18 June 2008 at 6:33 pm

    So our taxpayer dollars finance Laborious Party blogs .
    What a disgraceful country run by selfish people who waste money at will.
75. Lew 75

    18 June 2008 at 6:45 pm

    D4J: Refusing to let facts or logic get in the way of a good slagging off, since sometime before the Kommies got a hold of all that was good and proper in Nyu Zillun.

    L

    Captcha: `reality Beginning’. One day, perhaps it will.
76. dad4justice 76

    18 June 2008 at 6:50 pm

    Don’t talk rubbish lew, everybody knows that Helen Clark’s government and supporters are nothing but pathological liars.Just ask anybody on the street away from the deluded world of blogosphere!!
77. jafapete 77

    18 June 2008 at 6:50 pm

    D4J, Did whaleoil say anything about funding of the Standard? That’s not the issue. Is it all too complicated for you?
78. T-rex 78

    18 June 2008 at 7:12 pm

    Lew – If only it WAS a good slagging off. It’s like inanity made text.
79. randal 79

    18 June 2008 at 7:13 pm

    hey buddy can you spare a dime?
80. Lew 80

    18 June 2008 at 7:19 pm

    T-rex: A hit, sir, a very palpable hit!

    L
81. dad4justice 81

    18 June 2008 at 7:28 pm

    I really feel sorry for you people.
    Boy, this country needs a new direction.
82. Lew 82

    18 June 2008 at 7:30 pm

    It’s ok, D4J. We feel sorry for you, too.

    L
83. A REAL Kiwi Dad 83

    18 June 2008 at 7:46 pm

    So, let’s get this straight: DPF works out of National Headquarters does their private polling and is paid by the National Party – but claims to be independent. Cameron Slater is the son of a former president of the National Party. But it’s Lyn Prentice’s server that’s considered a smoking gun? C’mon! You shouldn’t even grace that fat retard with a response. He’s an embarrassment to himself and the National Party.
84. killinginginthenameof 84

    18 June 2008 at 9:23 pm

    For those who are having trouble with the technical details:

    1. Lyn Prentice runs the standard.

    2. Lyn Prentice owns another website name

    3. There is another website with a similar name

    4. Whale oil got confused.

    [lprent: You forgot, Lynn was kind enough to make sure that the domain name could go to a specific organization if he gave it up]
85. T-rex 85

    18 June 2008 at 9:29 pm

    D4J – How many of the things you’re so passionately irrational about do you think will change if National DO get into government? You always come across like just this really angry guy who’s pissed off at the world but doesn’t really have the tools to deal with it…

    Is it that you think things are going to change for the better, or do you just want to make sure a whole bunch of other people feel as miserable and ripped off by society as you do?

    Lew – Cheers, I can’t help feeling it’s a bit of a cheap shot though. Ah well… little small vents are probably the best.
86. dad4justice 86

    18 June 2008 at 9:52 pm

    I want justice.
    End of story. Goodbye !!
87. KenS 87

    18 June 2008 at 9:55 pm

    Geeze, calling labour for what it it gets one banned from this site. Proves my point.
    
    IrishBill says: no we’ve just got a low tolerance for morons. It’s two months now.
88. T-rex 88

    18 June 2008 at 9:56 pm

    That’s what I thought.

    I hope you get it, and I really hope you don’t f*ck up everything else in your world in the process.
89. burt 89

    18 June 2008 at 10:09 pm

    KenS

    Geeze, calling labour for what it it gets one banned from this site. Proves my point.

    You did lay it out straight and I agreed with most of what you said. Particularly the “Labour is fucked. Heh, they send in their IT guy to argue their case. Fuck, we lock ours in the basement. Where they can’t do any damage.” bit. So I’m hoping it was the “What a pack of wankers.” bit that the moderators found offensive because I also thought that was an inappropriate way to start a sentence. All the best, see you back here under a new name shortly 😉

    Just a thought, is this ‘Robinsod’ breaking his ban? If so his ban should be made indefinite, unless of course he’s not the only one doing it because then we should all just move on.
    
    IrishBill says: Burt, as much as you would like to see him gone, the ‘Sod has not broken his ban. You should remember you are only a commenter here and we don’t take kindly to being told how to run our blog.
90. KenS 90

    18 June 2008 at 10:12 pm

    Oh Lynn, one final point on that leaking shit-hole you live in, Labour introduced a “fast, efficient and easy” system for you to get resolution to your leaky home thingy, well that worked out good didn’t it? how long have you been waiting/will continue to wait for the Labour inspired miracle to deliver? I’m thinking about 3 years. My advice is give up, cut your loss and move on.

    IrishBill says: For somebody that thinks so little of the standard you seem pretty desperate to have your say on it. Shame that. Four months.
91. randal 91

    18 June 2008 at 10:16 pm

    kens…my advice to you is take a laxative and ten valiums and then do a course on self awareness
92. imcheezy 92

    18 June 2008 at 10:21 pm

    Sounds like the blubbery one should spend more time boning up on his IT and less time eating all the pies.
93. KenS 93

    18 June 2008 at 10:28 pm

    IrishBill says: what part of “banned” do you not understand?
94. burt 94

    18 June 2008 at 10:30 pm

    Anarchist alert!
95. Felix 95

    18 June 2008 at 10:55 pm

    mums. Or Mums. Not “mum’s”.
96. killinginginthenameof 96

    19 June 2008 at 1:44 am

    I think the adds on the blugger blog (and kiwiblog for that matter) are really just there as an attempt to push buttons over the definition of blog in the EFA.
97. zANavAShi 97

    19 June 2008 at 2:37 am

    Huh? 96 replies to this thread already?!?

    Why the buggery bollox are we even giving oxygen to anything that was stirred up in that cesspool (that some mistakenly like to call a blog) which I can’t even bring myself to type the name of in case it causes me to projectile vomit on my keyboard?

    Yanno Lynn has stated his position on this so many times that to hear it restated all over again in yet another tedious trolly thread is less interesting to me right now than charting the evolution of a single celled septic tank amoeba.

    Lynn… ma leetle chilli pepper… if this was my place I’d give these trolling mofo’s 12 hours for closing statements and lock down this classic example of what the ‘sod calls “pig-fucking” once and for all.

    Oh yeh… and a weeks ban to any participant who has already quizzed you on the facts you restated above in any previous thread at the Standard.

    PS: my captcha says “be 160th”. Even the recaptcha is exaggerating in this sodding thread sheeesh 😮

    [lprent: The cesspool owner is straying into an area of my expertise and doing it badly. He needed some feedback.]
98. expat 98

    19 June 2008 at 6:16 am

    zANavAShi

    WTF?

    [lprent: I’m aware that you aren’t really up with the play (I read your comments on whale and KB). But I think you have just been delicately called a moronic troll who likes playing in cesspits. Describing you quite well I think.]
99. Alan 99

    19 June 2008 at 7:11 am

    One can understand the confusion in Whaleoil’s mind. he is, afterall, the son of ex National Party President, John Slater and has been seen gracing the social pages of the SST in the company of Rodney Hide.
    Cameron Slater’s rants have as much credibilty as his fellow bloggers like Barnsley who have attempted to block the Labour Party hiring school halls to hold their meetings!!
100. andy 100

     19 June 2008 at 8:15 am

     kens my advice to you is take a laxative and ten valiums and then do a course on self awareness

     randal have you got a book of these gems?

     priceless (well $19.99 for a new keyboard and $3.50 for replacement coffee) 🙂
101. lprent 101

     19 June 2008 at 9:58 am

     I was offline last night. Orcon shifted my DSL from one phone line to another (so I can drop a voice line). Worked fine until someone disabled my login to their net.

     Back on again so the DNS and mail are up (and my cell has stopped ringing). Off to work.

     Update: Nope – they changed the IP number last night as well. Getting that fixed. We can’t have whale getting confused if I shift IP numbers on him can we. He might think it is a conspiracy, and it certainly won’t help with his tech confusion..

     Update2: Bugger em – I’ll just shifted the dns to the new IP while they get around to fixing the problem. I think of it as a learning experience for Whale.
102. James 102

     22 June 2008 at 4:00 pm

     “IrishBill says: Burt, as much as you would like to see him gone, the ?Sod has not broken his ban. You should remember you are only a commenter here and we don?t take kindly to being told how to run our blog.”

     Just as the rest of us don’t like Labour’s bully boys and gestapo telling us how to run our lives…..take a hint Comrade…
103. dad4justice 103

     22 June 2008 at 4:41 pm

     Well said James.
104. randal 104

     22 June 2008 at 5:02 pm

     whata load of crap…all you mad rightwingers are banned from the right wing blogs but you get a say here…whats wrong with you?
105. Lew 105

     22 June 2008 at 5:02 pm

     James: You might not like it, but the government was legitimately elected. Your recourse is at the ballot box later this year.

     If you genuinely think there’s a Labour gestapo, bully-boys doing the rounds, or that we’ve entered the communist totalitarianism your `comrade’ comment suggests, you’ll realise there’s no point in voting and I expect you to take up arms any day now to reclaim your country.

     If, on the other hand, your comment is just spectacular hyperbole based on the false victimhood often felt by poor losers, then you’ll turn up and vote as normal.

     May the best men and women win.

     L

     Captcha: `Elected moderate’. See? Even recaptcha knows more about NZ politics than you!
106. dad4justice 106

     22 June 2008 at 8:51 pm

     “all you mad rightwingers are banned from the right wing blogs but you get a say here ”

     Examples randel? Yeah right.

     “whats wrong with you?”

     Just balancing the scales of political opinion, or is that a crime on blogosphere NOW in New Zealand?

Links to post

1. Kiwiblog » Blog Archive » Blog Bits: posted on 18 June 2008 at 3:10 pm
2. The Standard 2.01: MSM columns - clueless about fact checking: posted on 14 September 2008 at 5:37 pm
3. Sunday conspiracy humour at The Standard: posted on 22 March 2009 at 8:12 pm

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