What NZ could look like with more Cancun failures

Written By: - Date published: 1:30 pm, December 15th, 2010 - 64 comments
Categories: climate change, Environment - Tags:

How does large hunks of most of our coastal cities and thousands of acres of farmland being swallowed the sea sound? This neat graphic shows effects of sea level rises from climate change: 1m – roughly in line with official predictions; through 6m – collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet; to 14m – doomsday scenario. Even a small rise is catastrophic.

64 comments on “What NZ could look like with more Cancun failures”

  1. higherstandard 1

    “How does large hunks of most of our coastal cities and thousands of acres of farmland being swallowed (by) the sea sound?”

    Like one of the hollywood disaster movies and about as likely as one of them too.

    • Macro 1.1

      The Hauraki Plains are under distinct threat. Or have you never visited the “swamp fox” territory. A good flood now inundates them. They will be flooded by the end of this Century, or become polders as in Holland if we’re lucky.
      Make no mistake – sea level is rising and increasingly so.

      http://www.skepticalscience.com/Greenland-ice-mass-loss-after-the-2010-summer.html

      The important bit – in case you haven’t read it – referring to the Greenland ice sheet
      “The ice sheet has been steadily losing ice and the rate of ice loss has doubled over the 8 year period since gravity measurements began. The accelerating ice loss is independently confirmed by GPS measurements of uplifting bedrock. The GRACE data gives us an insight into why Greenland is losing ice mass at such an accelerating rate – ice loss has spread from the south east all the way up the west coast:”

  2. grumpy 2

    I’m still waiting for the prices of baches in the Sounds to come down but no sign yet! Keep up the scare tactics, there might be a sucker seller out there – I’m watching the Real Estate websites closely!

    • MrSmith 2.1

      You’ll find most batches in the sounds more than a few meters above sea level Grumpy, so I would get in now before the prices start going up! not down, just make sure you don’t buy one with a jetty as that will be going first.

  3. clandestino 3

    Ridiculous scare mongering. Shouldn’t we be more worried about actual events (such as the increasing drought threat) rather than serial pessimists fantasies?

    • Bright Red 3.1

      the sea level has risen 1.8mm a year on aveage since the middle of last century, and it is accelerating. the average increase since the late 1980s has been 3.3mm.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

      This isn’t scaremongering. This is the cost of doing nothing about climate change.

      • Ianmac from the UAE 3.1.1

        I knew about icemelt from back in the 50s via the International Geophysical Year(s), but a new thought to me is the expansion of water through warming. I wonder though that since frozen water expands then reduces as it thaws then expands again as it warms with it would self-cancel the effect?

        • Oscar 3.1.1.1

          Thermic expansion means that as water warms up, it shrinks. After all, water turns to steam the hotter it gets.
          When it heats up, it starts compressing (as when it cools down it starts expanding) giving us more volume which to fill.
          Try it with a bucket of water. Get a cold bucket of water in the morning, leave it in the sun all day. When you get back home from work, you’ll find that the water level has shrunk.
          Fill it up with cold water, where does it go? Back to the original level.
          So if the oceans are warming up, why are they rising?
          Simple. The lowest lying areas are always the first to be affected, hence we see the effects first. Unfortunately, most of the low lying area is at the equator, which explains why Tokelau is “sinking”
          The moon affects the tides from the equator outwards, which is why the tidal pull occurs most strongly in this area. Compare the differences in high and low tides with a place like Vanuatu, which is closer to the equator, with England, which is not.
          There isn’t anything we can do to hold back the tide. Why try to do what King Canute couldn’t? We need to start discussing how best to help the displaced and dispossessed. No ones EVER going to believe the same story. This is why COP15 and COP16 were relative failures.

          In a geological time span, the ice from Greenland would have melted, and rock lift would have taken place.
          As earth is lighter than ice, it stands to reason that if the ice is melting faster, there’s less downward pressure as a whole, so land would rise faster.
          Even as late as 2005 we were getting told Greenlands caps were growing.

          • Daniel 3.1.1.1.1

            Oscar I really, really hope this is an excellent caricature of someone really dumb.

            1. Water expands when it heats up (it’s most dense at about 3 degrees C, and expands when heated, or when frozen)

            2. Tides are not highest at the equator – when I was in Vanuatu the tide was much less than in Auckland, and the highest tides in the world are in Canada. Look up Tide on wikipedia and scroll down to “Phase and Amplitude” for a map showing tidal height around the world

            3. Earth is definitely not lighter than ice (with some exceptions) – to demonstrate, ice floats, earth doesn’t.

            • Oscar 3.1.1.1.1.1

              You believers are a strange lot aren’t you.

              You’re being disingenious with your tide explanation. Tides are highest at the equator due to the higher land level present in this area.

              Water evaporates when it heats, not expands. It expands as a vapour, but not as a liquid.

              Earth is lighter than ice, especially when there’s a ton of ice bearing down on it. Hence why earth rises up when ice is taken off it.

              • NickS

                Sadly, you’re not triggering my well trained Poe senses, so yeah, you’re an idiot who’s well worth banning because you’re ignoring any stuff that counters your bullshit.

                And unsurprisingly you’ve now claimed that water doesn’t expand as it heats, which contradicts the bit you linked to early to try and claim that water contracts as it heats. As well as denying a pretty well understood physical phenomena.

                Earth is lighter than ice, especially when there’s a ton of ice bearing down on it. Hence why earth rises up when ice is taken off it.

                Behold, stupidity so stupid it belongs on Fundies Say The Darnedest Things!, for it matches well the sort of brain destroying babble of creationists claiming such things as the flood sorting things out to match the fossil record. Or that evolution isn’t true because we don’t see cat-dogs, or ’cause chimps are still around.

                And Density, understand it you do not, nor I suspect anything more complex than a can opener, so begone fell twit, and go dwell in the dank echo rooms of that complete crank and classic crackpot Wishart’s blog where your stupidity is accepted and embraced.

                Now if you’ll excuse me, I have cider to buy, stupid programmers to curse and a terrible need to go read something far more intelligent than your babbling, and I don’t mean a Dan Brown novel, which is probably disturbingly far beyond your pathetic reading comprehension levels.*

                *unless you have a disability, but unfortunately boneheaded stupidity doesn’t count as one.

              • RedLogix

                It expands as a vapour, but not as a liquid.

                Flat out wrong.

  4. Pascal's bookie 4

    6m puts me on the shore of the harbour on Miramar island.

    • higherstandard 4.1

      Waterfront, nice.

      • Lanthanide 4.1.1

        I need 14M to get the same. At least we’ll have a Banks Island again, ‘stead of this peninsula crap we have now.

        • Just Me 4.1.1.1

          Bugger +14 meters and I still don’t get water front property.

          • NickS 4.1.1.1.1

            You’re lucky, at 14m Christchurch is mostly under water, and at 3m my part of town becomes distinctly more swampy 🙁

            • Ianmac from the UAE 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Well NickS. How about Christchurch putting a hold on rebuilding houses. Instead invest in house-boat building? Or even creating a Venice of the South Pacific. Its an ill wind……

  5. MrSmith 5

    Here is a quote I picked up somewhere that sums it up for me.

    “The (Climate change deniers) still deny that it is happening at all in the face of all of the evidence to the contrary – after all they seem to be armed with the enduring faith of stupidity. The stupid are always with us actively trying for the rapture, unfortunately also trying to drag us with them to the brink of idiocy.”

    • Ianmac from the UAE 5.1

      They’re dreaming of Utopia long gone.
      We’re dreaming of Utopia yet to come.

    • Oscar 5.2

      Here’s a quote I paraphrased. It sums it up for me as well.

      “The (Climatics) still have faith that it is happening at all in the face of all of the evidence to the contrary – after all they seem to be armed with the enduring faith of stupidity. The stupid are always with us actively trying for the rapture, unfortunately also trying to drag us with them to the brink of idiocy”

      • lprent 5.2.1

        One of mine. Referring to idiots like Wishart. But it applies to credulous fools like yourself as well.

        I’d have to say that as well as being good at misquoting, reading your comments over the last few days has been a revelation in how uninformed people like yourself are about science. In particular, you seem to have no sense of scale effects – especially timescales. As far as I can see, to you, if something is possible in a billion years then it must have it’s ultimate effect now. Your comment about the sun was highly symptomatic

        • Oscar 5.2.1.1

          /head bang

          I wonder who’s the one with no sense of scale? Everything I’m talking about is taking into consideration the geological timespan of these things.
          Even as Greenlands caps melt, the land is rising faster than expected. Can you spin that into a believers theories?
          No. You can’t.

          The sun is getting hotter. 2013 is expected to be a solar maximum year. Who on earth is going to survive if we have no atmosphere to protect us? We’re so busy getting rid of it all by limiting the burning of natural gases (taking sulfur out of fuel is a good case to start with) that we’re destroying our own natural layer.
          Sulfuric shield is one of the components that deflects the suns heat, CO2 is another.

          When was the last time the sun increased in heat? Who knows. We only know this now because of the last 200 years in which science has SLOWLY started to understand how earth works.

          • Daniel 5.2.1.1.1

            The sun varies in intensity in a cycle of about 11 years, that is what the solar maximum refers to.

            The atmosphere has lasted for several billion years, I don’t think reducing human emissions of sulphur and CO2 (emissions which have been absent for the vast majority of the earth’s history) are going to result in the destruction of the atmosphere.

            As for Greenland rising, that’s called isostatic uplift, it’s a well documented phenomenon, and as the land rises it will actually displace more water, raising sea levels elsewhere.

            I honestly don’t think I could write stupider comments than this if I was trying. I’m calling Poe (or the denialist equivalent) on this, not because I think it is, but because I don’t want to consider that you actually believe what you write

  6. Santi 6

    The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

  7. Rich 7

    A consolation is that all the beachfront land where the 4WD driving ACT supporters is going to be inundated.

    I favour shackling climate change deniers at the pre-climate change high tide mark. With a rusty saw – drown, or hack your leg off.

    • higherstandard 7.1

      Well you’d likely die from old age, exposure or a number of other causes a long time before the rise in sea levels got you, best you try another tack.

      • Oscar 7.1.1

        Couldn’t have put it better myself hs.

      • NickS 7.1.2

        Except for the annoying issue of no having worked out the positive and negative feedback loops to the point where they can be included in the IPCC reports. The main issue when it comes to positive feedback loops is water vapour, but there’s also the release of carbon stored in permafrost and methane hydrates as methane, a very, very potent greenhouse gas, that ends up oxidising to CO2, instead of conveniently dropping out of the atmosphere.

        There’s also glacier movement modelling, as while it’s not yet solid enough to be IPCC material, there are strong indications that as glaciers melt, melt water acts as a lubricant and allows glaciers to move much more freely. Leading to greater ice mass loss, and likely is the reason for the very large ice mass losses seen in the West Antarctic ice sheets.

        Thus it’s quite possible that we could be looking at far faster rises in sea levels, well within human life spans. But it’s after midnight, and I need sleep, so yeah.

        • Jeremy Harris 7.1.2.1

          That’s not true as I understand it, feedbacks were included in the IPCC AR4 report, it how you get predictions of 1.1 to 6.4 degrees of change to 2100 when lab tests show that without feedbacks a doubling of CO2 concentrations equates to about a 1 degree rise in temp in a log curve…

          • NickS 7.1.2.1.1

            Right /d’oh

            Though I’d need to dig around in the modelling stuff tomorrow to see the uncertainties involved, because iirc the IPCC scenarios don’t assume large positive feedback loops postulated by some climatologists that don’t respond linearly to reductions in atmospheric carbon.

          • lprent 7.1.2.1.2

            Only a few of the better understood ones were, like the extra heat after the sea ice stops reflecting. I think that they have some (low) estimates on gas releases from the permafrost melt. It did not include some of the more hairy ones like methyl hydrates, salination changes in ocean currents, or most of the things that really worry earth scientists.

            I’d have to check the methodology (link please), but I’m pretty sure that your lab tests are wrong if only because you cannot easily simulate tens of kilometers of atmosphere in a lab. Remember that the actual physical effect of co2 is that it lowers the energy of light. Thereby making it harder for that energy to escape the atmosphere. But the whole thing s a probalistic statistical process based on large columns of gas. You can determine the probability of elements of the process in a lab. You cannot detimine the whole air column process in the lab with any degree of certainty.

            This sounds like another stupid misinterpretation. The type so beloved by idiots like Watts or the potty peer

            • Jeremy Harris 7.1.2.1.2.1

              I’d have to check the methodology (link please),

              Would you trust the IPCC..?

              http://www.pik-potsdam.de/~stefan/Publications/Book_chapters/Rahmstorf_Zedillo_2008.pdf

              Without any feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 (which amounts to a forcing of 3.7 W/m2) would result in 1°C global warming, which is easy to calculate and is undisputed.14

              14. IPCC, Climate Change 2001: Synthesis Report.

              The generally accepted equation leads to about a 1.1 degree change with a doubling of CO2 and with no forcing, which is how I assumed the IPCC came up with their lower level estimate… So not a stupid misintrepretation actually…

              • lprent

                Yeah I thought so. You didn’t read it correctly. It is not (my bold)

                …when lab tests show that without feedbacks a doubling of CO2 concentrations..

                You are quite imprecise – it is not “lab tests”, it is a calculation from the physics and the knowledge of the air column. The relevant paragraph in FULL (you missed the relevant bit with selective quoting) is (again my bold)

                One method consists of using radiative forcing (that is, the change in radiation budget in watts per square meter, W/m2), combined with information on the strength of physical feedbacks, to compute the expected temperature change. That is what Arrhenius did with pencil and paper; today, detailed calculations employing computer models are used in order to account for all the feedbacks. Without any feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 (which amounts to a forcing of 3.7 W/m2) would result in 1°C global warming, which is easy to calculate and is undisputed.14

                As I said..

                But the whole thing s a probalistic statistical process based on large columns of gas. You can determine the probability of elements of the process in a lab. You cannot detimine the whole air column process in the lab with any degree of certainty.

                To say that it is a value from a “lab test” means that they tested a calculation in the laboratory under controlled conditions. But they cannot do that where there is a air column that is kilometers high. In this case some elements of the calculation come from controlled condition lab tests, but the totality of the calculation is quite theoretical calculated based on a theoretical averaging of the air-column. It obviously cannot be tested in the real world because of the feedbacks and varying conditions that exist in the real world.

                If you don’t think it is important to be precise on how the process of how things are figured out, then you don’t understand science.

                • Jeremy Harris

                  If you don’t think it is important to be precise on how the process of how things are figured out, then you don’t understand science.

                  It’s a calculation extrapolated from lab tests, so when I’m writing a single sentence riposte to the statement;

                  Except for the annoying issue of no having worked out the positive and negative feedback loops to the point where they can be included in the IPCC reports.

                  is perfectly justifable to use the term “lab tests”… As much as you’d like to think it is your blog isn’t a scientific authority, I’m not writing a thesis and I understand the scientific process perfectly fine having studied a branch of it at one of the top 50 universities in the world (which I believe the UoA still is and certainly was when I was there)…

        • lprent 7.1.2.2

          They did include some permafrost melt CO2 release, but from memory didn’t include methane because of the biological colonization dependency.

          I’m picking a significiant ice melt sea level rise within my remaining lifetime ( unless I die early ). There are too many potential gotchas in what we know about large ice mass loss. The observed values of mass wasting in both Greenland and the WAIS are too high for most existing theories. It was the same problem for the antarticia peninsula. Everything there is happening way way too fast for even the most pessimistic of theories.

  8. swimmer 8

    We should be embracing this and turning New Zealand into a Venice like paradise with gondolas instead of cars. Hydroponics will be our horticulture and water our export. Turbines will create our “motorways” along vast aqueducts that split off into waterslides that take people into their suburbs. 🙂

  9. MrSmith 9

    Climate Change

    This subject fascinates me mainly because everyone I talk to seems to think it is not happening or it’s just another apocalyptic scam. Now just about everybody I talk to has there head still stuck firmly up there ass though, I have read a lot about Climate change over the years it is fascinating science. I love science and the way it works, science has brought you just about everything you possess today plus your health but when these guys come up with an idea that will cost you money or more to the point cost the oil companies and car manufactures money we don’t like it , So we want to have a little cry and say that’s not true go away. If anyone here has a better theory why the earth is warming I’d like to here it! but you see know-one has come up with a better theory so maybe we should all just pray to santa/jesus then!

    • Better dumb it down a bit MrS, most people are incapable of listening to, let alone understanding logic.

    • Jeremy Harris 9.2

      @Mr Smith, I guess the major alternatives currently offered are:

      – It’s largely natural
      – It’s the sun
      – It was the CFC’s fault

      • Oscar 9.2.1

        To an extent, it was the CFCs fault. If it wasn’t for them, we wouldn’t have a holey ozone.
        The sun is getting hotter. It is a star after all,its what it does.
        It’s been well publicised that the carbon dioxide traps heat,but what it doesn’t mention is that it’s a very good deflector shield for the suns heat. The more CO2 there is, the more the suns heat is deflected. Venus shows us what it’s like with 97% C02. Sure, it’s hot as hell, but if life can survive on Arsenic, it also survives on sulfuric acid. In fact, it does!
        We can get C02 up to about 40%, and plant forests where none exist, the trees will soak up the CO2, and supply us with O2 – which only makes up 16% of the atmosphere. We can increase that level with the planting of more trees. We can still tolerate that level of C02 as it’s still way above our head height.
        Then the new lands that rise will get new forests from the birds migrating there, and building a subsoil – again over thousands of years – they will start sucking out the CO2, new caps form elsewhere, rinse and repeat.
        Except this time, those pesky humans are trying to affect natures cycles.

        Englands got the best localised shield, so it’s about to get a 1000 year winter.

        • NickS 9.2.1.1

          I have to say it, you’re worse than Andrei.

          To an extent, it was the CFCs fault. If it wasn’t for them, we wouldn’t have a holey ozone.

          Ozone only absorbs UV wavelength photons strongly, it’s IR transparent, and pray tell, how the flaming heck does the ozone hole = warming? i.e. absorption specta for ozone please.

          The sun is getting hotter. It is a star after all,its what it does.

          lolwut?

          The time frame for such increases in temperatures is hundreds of millions of years in the future, and current measurements of the sun’s output put us in a solar minima, along with the scientific evidence on climate forcings showing that the sun hasn’t played a role in recent warming and that in the longterm is mostly small orbital changes which bring about colder periods.

          It’s been well publicised that the carbon dioxide traps heat,but what it doesn’t mention is that it’s a very good deflector shield for the suns heat. The more CO2 there is, the more the suns heat is deflected.

          [Citation Needed]

          And on Venus it’s the sulphuric acid clouds that reflect the heat, not the fucking CO2.

          re, it’s hot as hell, but if life can survive on Arsenic, it also survives on sulfuric acid. In fact, it does!

          GFAJ-1? The massive fuck up? Protip; arsenic based life is still science fantasy.

          As for life on Venus, it’s utterly speculative at this stage and would only be single celled organisms with a fairly simple ecology, rather than the huge complexity we have on Earth in just a handful of topsoil.

          We can get C02 up to about 40%, and plant forests where none exist, the trees will soak up the CO2, and supply us with O2 – which only makes up 16% of the atmosphere. We can increase that level with the planting of more trees. We can still tolerate that level of C02 as it’s still way above our head height.

          Lol-fucking-wat?

          CO2 is mixed through out the atmosphere, it doesn’t merely stay down low, unless some idiot’s set off a major dry ice bomb in a sealed room, that and as temperatures increase, without enough water, plants rates of carbon fixation bottom out due to heat stress. That and the majority of the atmosphere’s O2 comes not from terrestrial sources, but from phytoplankton in teh ocean you ignoramus.

          Except this time, those pesky humans are trying to affect natures cycles.

          We’ve been doing it even since we started burning down forests, clearing and draining land, and generally altering local and regional microclimates with knock on wider scale effects. And all without fucking realising it.

          The rest, I can’t be arsed with.

          • Oscar 9.2.1.1.1

            I mention the CFCs as in the 70’s when the ozone was only just starting to be explored, we discovered the hole(s) in the ozone. One in the north, one in the south.

            However, it’s entirely possible that these holes were in existence long before we discovered them.
            As is natural for humans, when we don’t understand something, we search for a scapegoat. CFCs it was.
            Whos to say that the ozone holes didn’t exist beforehand? No one can disprove that theory as generally speaking, the holes are closer to the poles, and who lives there? Ice deposits have shown radiation levels going back thousands of years. Entirely plausible the radiation comes through the natural holes.

            It’s not orbital periods that bring about warming, it’s the changing magnetic poles. The north pole has shifted by 3 degrees lat and 4degrees long in the last 10 years alone. It’s going to keep moving.
            Eventually, the new south pole will be where England is. Don’t believe me? Believe the ancient pyroclastic flows that somehow switch their flow from N-S to S-N ad infinitum throughout Earths history.
            How else to explain the fact that that entire NW area of Europe and England is getting colder, and experiencing longer winters?

            No, I’m simply using the example of life living on sulfuric acid is possible – even if things living on arsenic is false or lab manipulated.

            As for CO2 being dispersed through the atmosphere, of course it is. I use the head height analogy because simple minded folk like yourself, understand simple things. Carbon rises, oxygen sinks. Same effect in a house fire. You stay close to the ground to keep breathing – as it is on Earth. Except in our case, we’ve got a long way to go before we even start getting close to running out of O2. The trees will die before us.

            All without fucking realising it – indeed. Now we realise it, occams razor dictates that we’re speeding up a long evolutionary natural process of earth. Ice caps have ALWAYS melted and reformed. This time’s no different.

            All the climatic theories about rising sea levels fail to take into account
            1) warming water turns to steam
            2) rises are more pronounced at equatorial level
            3) faster melting ice caps = faster rising land as in Greenland
            4) Geological time spans mean we still have a good 200+ years to deal with climate change refugees.

            Think you’re fucking King Canute do you? How about you try and do what he couldn’t.

            Humans have an extraordinary ability to adapt. We need to adapt to the changing of the poles, the ice caps, the meltwater, and adapt for the few million people that are going to need rehoming in the next 2 centuries, all the while ensuring that we don’t fry for want of an atmosphere.
            How the fuck else are we protected from the sun if we don’t have an atmosphere? The thicker the better for life. Venus has had it’s atmosphere forming over thousands of years. Here we are trying to destroy our one.

            • NickS 9.2.1.1.1.1

              I mention the CFCs as in the 70′s when the ozone was only just starting to be explored, we discovered the hole(s) in the ozone. One in the north, one in the south.

              Lolwut?

              To an extent, it was the CFCs fault. If it wasn’t for them, we wouldn’t have a holey ozone.

              Confirmation please on just what the fuck you trying to say, because it strongly looks as though you’re blaming climate change on the ozone holes.

              However, it’s entirely possible that these holes were in existence long before we discovered them.

              /facepalm

              As is natural for humans, when we don’t understand something, we search for a scapegoat. CFCs it was.

              The stupid, it burns.

              Or, it was noticed that there where increases in UV levels at the poles and higher latitudes in the south, and that lab work in the late 70’s with CFC’s showed that they catalyse the breakdown of ozone, and later on, that they do so rather more efficiently when there’s ice crystals to provide a reaction surface + concentrate CFC’s. Like there is in high polar ice clouds:
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion

              Whos to say that the ozone holes didn’t exist beforehand? No one can disprove that theory as generally speaking, the holes are closer to the poles, and who lives there? Ice deposits have shown radiation levels going back thousands of years. Entirely plausible the radiation comes through the natural holes.

              UV is not fucking cosmic radiation you ignorant douchebag, which leaves recognisable traces in the ice, and due to the earth’s magnetic field are actually attracted towards the poles.

              Also, given CFC’s don’t have a biosynthetic pathway, or produced by abiotic chemistry, prior ozone depletion would be only due to changes in solar electromagnetic radiation output, since UV levels govern the formation of ozone in the first place. Coupled with historical observations and the prior chemistry research, it’s thus obvious that the ozone hole is entirely caused by anthropogenic releases of CFC’s and nothing else. Thus to suggest otherwise, indicates possibly profound ignorance about the science, or even a priori ideological blinkers.

              So yeah, you sound just like a creationist claiming something couldn’t have possibly evolved on the basis of your own profound ignorance and inability to research.

              • lprent

                Are you still playing with Oscar? I’ve given up as he seems to be incapable of anything apart from cant, and has some of the weirdest and least thought out ideas I’ve seen for a while.

                Some of the greenhouse gases are CFC’s and a couple of artificial gases. Some are extremely powerful greenhouse gases. But they either have a very short residence time in the atmosphere or have a low volume/effect/longevity. They’re steadily being phased out anyway. Their nett effect is virtually nothing on climate change compared to CH4 and nothing compared to CO2.

                I suspect that O has read this somewhere and then conflated ozone holes with climate change.

  10. erentz 10

    Exactly why there’s no point fussing about the seabed and foreshore legislation.

    In seriousness — how accurately can the latest science predict sea level rise under whatever scenario these days? It’d be good if it were at the point where we could say with business as usual where it lays on a curve say at 2050 and 2100, so we could plot every address that will be affected under the most likely scenarios, and mail the people, tell them, and ask them what they want the government to do a) build a big dam if it happens to protect my home, assuming they can get the money from somewhere and the world isn’t in crisis, b) introduce carbon tax, c) etc…

    Also — how does one go about getting questions added to the Census? We’ve got one coming up soon and I would like to add one that asks peoples position on climate change, do they accept the science, deny the science, or something like that… I think this is perfectly valid use of the census.

    • SjS 10.1

      To your first question – working out whose homes are going to be affected in already underway in most regions in NZ, as local government has an onus under the LGA, RMA and BA, as well as LGOIMA (when issuing LIMs), to identify natural hazards (coastal erosion caused by sea level rise is considered to be a natural hazard). Council’s are already updating the extent of coastal hazard areas to reflect the MfE’s sea level rise guidelines (0.9m by 2100 I think), and this information will be passed on to landowners through LIMs, etc. The Government is also working on a National Environmental Standard for sea level rise. The bun-fight will begin when having these designations on coastal land devalues over-priced baches, however, the processes that create these changes do not require compensation to landowners (refer s.85 of the RMA).

      Re your second question – not likely. The purpose of the census is to gather demographic information, it’s not an opinion poll. What you’re talking about could be achieved through a much smaller survey of people’s opinions on climate change (depending on what confidence you sought, you may only need a few thousand respondents to get a representative sample of the NZ population). Another means is a citizen’s initiated referendum.

      • erentz 10.1.1

        CIR might be a good one, hard to organise though when its serious and meaningful. All of them so far have been a pointless waste of peoples time.

        Re demographics: We ask people what mythical gods they believe in. I think understanding the people’s education level and position on science is important information for running a country. It would tell me that I need to look at the education curriculum to incorporate more critical thinking training, teaching of problem solving methods, etc from an early age.

  11. grumpy 11

    This is bullshit, there is a rock at a mate’s bach in the sounds that we used at low tide to get into the dinghy, it’s still the same height above water level at dead low tide that it was 40 years ago!

    • MrSmith 11.1

      Take a look at this from the Ministry of the environment Grumpy : http://www.mfe.govt.nz/issues/climate/adaptation/sea-level-rise.html

      Here is another couple of analogies to think about .

      “uncertainty is not your friend” it’s a logical fallacy that any degree of doubt necessitates inaction. We all have insurance policies. We’d almost all take the advice of the 9 specialists who recommended immediate surgery to stave off death within weeks over the one who says ‘ah, but it hasn’t actually grown for a week and a half now; just let the tumour go to see what it does for a couple of months – who knows, perhaps it will heal itself?’

      P/S Grumpy: I think you will find the marlborough sounds is the only part of NZ that is slowly sinking as well . Sorry about that, maybe we will run into each other in the sounds one day and can have a laugh & a beer .

  12. dewithiel 12

    @ Grumpy

    And your PhD is in? And you’ve published your empirical observation and analysis on the height of the rock at your mate’s bach in what peer-reviewed scientific journal thus helping us understand what is happening to the climate?

  13. grumpy 13

    I don\’t need a PhD to tell me that the sea level hasn\’t risen a scrap in the last 40 years. FFS, some of these PhD types need to get out more!

    • NickS 13.1

      Fuck you’re stupid.

      One of the problems with the human brain is that it sucks at picking up long term, small changes. Which is one of the reasons why we have statistical tools for these out and working out if it’s due to chance or not on the basis of how much variation is in the data. And given that the sea level rise due to ice loss and thermal expansion is in the millimetre/year ranges, it’s no wonder you haven’t noticed a fucking change, because it occurs to slowly for you to notice via causal observation.

      • Oscar 13.1.1

        So why does thermal expansion affect sea level rises?

        Water volume by cubic metre shrinks as it warms – not expands. Icemelt will raise sea level, but thermal heating means just as much, if not more, is lost through evaporation.

        More about thermic expansion here

        • NickS 13.1.1.1

          /facepalm

          It’s clearly a positive increase in volume from 4-100°C, as a negative value isnt “- x” it’s “-x” you mathematically illiterate twit. An increase of 4.2x^10-2, which while very small in terms of increase per degree, on a the scale of oceans it works out to millimetres of expansion.

          It’s incredibly basic thermodynamics, that generally as the temperature of a substance rises, the movement of each individual atom increases, which leads to expansion as the atoms/molecules bounce of each other.

          • oscar 13.1.1.1.1

            so explain then, how and why volume increases when it gets to over 100 degrees, considering the fact water turns to vapour at this point.
            Its not the volume thats important, it’s the density of water.

            • NickS 13.1.1.1.1.1

              /facepalm

              Density = Volume/Mass
              Therefore, increase in volume with temperature = a decrease in density.

              Which obviously occurs across the scale from 4-100°C, i.e. each increase in temperature = x increase in volume and a corresponding y decrease in density. Oh utterly blockheaded one.

            • Macro 13.1.1.1.1.2

              @oscar
              OMG!! Are you for real, or are you just trying to be funny?
              I wonder where you got your science education from?
              I have never read such utter tripe in all my life.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    52 mins ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    2 hours ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 hours ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    9 hours ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    9 hours ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    9 hours ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    9 hours ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 day ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 day ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    1 day ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    1 day ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    1 day ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    1 day ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    1 day ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    4 days ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    5 days ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    5 days ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    5 days ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    5 days ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    5 days ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    6 days ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    6 days ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    6 days ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    6 days ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    7 days ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    7 days ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    1 week ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    1 week ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    1 week ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • 2018 – Submission to the NZ Government Tax Working Group
    Read our submission here ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Guardian: Poll shows DISASTER for Corbyn and the End of Times
    The Guardian - ever eager to forewarn of doom and disaster on the left - are leading with a new poll from Opinium, which puts the Conservatives 15% clear of Labour.Con 38% +2Lab 23% -1Lib Dem 15% -5Brexit 12% +1Green 4% +2This isn't good news, and it would be very ...
    1 week ago
  • How prostitution became the world’s most modern profession
    Being and Being Bought (Spinifex Press, 2013) by Kajsa Ekis Ekman  A synopsis and commentary of Chapters 1-2 by Daphna Whitmore Ekman, a Swedish journalist and critic, brings together a Marxist and feminist analysis of prostitution and surrogacy in this groundbreaking book She opens the discussion with a definition of ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Clever legal fellow on Scottish challenge to Brexit
    I make no claims to having much legal knowledge,  so I defer to those trained in this area.I am very much enjoying this twitter stream from m'learned friend in Edinburgh, deciphering the legal arguments around the Scottish court challenge to Boris Johnson, based on the charmingly obscure principle of Nobile ...
    2 weeks ago
  • An Open Letter From Closed Minds.
    Ivory Folly? The University of Auckland’s Vice-Chancellor, Professor Stuart McCutcheon, upheld the right of the radical nationalist group, Action Zealandia to exercise their freedom of speech – not matter how distasteful that speech might be. A wiser community of students and scholars would have nodded their agreement and moved on. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Extinction Rebellion members want to “eat babies”
    If you are not convinced terrorist Organisation ‘Extinction Rebellion’ is very, very dangerous – watch this video at one of their recent meetings. Not only is this obviously mentally ill Woman begging the other terrorists to promote killing and “eating” babies and children, if you watch carefully other members nod ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    2 weeks ago
  • The government needs to tell people about the OIA
    The Ombudsman has been surveying people about their knowledge of the OIA and the right to information. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that widespread:The Chief Ombudsman says too many New Zealanders were in the dark over their right to access official information. Peter Boshier said an independent survey released yesterday on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Join the rebellion
    In the wake of last Friday's climate strike, Peter McKenzie had an article in The Spinoff about protest strategies. The school strike movement is "polite" and cooperates with those in power because that's its kaupapa - its led by schoolkids who understandably don't want to risk arrest. But there's more ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Jermey Corbyn, I don’t like GNU (sorry)
    So, the latest ruminations on the gnews from Westminster (Again, sorry; I'll stop making that pun right now).  This follows on from, and likely repeats bits of, my last post, on the suggestion that a Government of National Unity (GNU) should be set up and then oversee a referendum before ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • About time
    New Zealand likes to think of itself as not a racist country (despite being founded on the racist dispossession and subjugation of Maori). But for years, we've had a racist refugee policy, which basicly excludes refugees from Africa and the Middle East unless they already have relatives here. Now, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Legal Beagle: Vexation, or Something Too Long for Twitter
    Several people have asked me whether a particular repeat litigant could be declared a vexatious litigant, in light of their recent decision to appeal an adverse High Court ruling. My nascent tweet thread was getting ridiculously long, so it became this blog post instead.The short answer is: no. The particular ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Zealandia’s Lost Boys.
    Appealing To The Past: Action Zealandia, like so many of the organisations springing up on the far-Right, across what they call the “Anglosphere”, is born out of the profound confusion over what a man is supposed to be in the twenty-first century and, more importantly, what he is supposed to do.THE STATUE OF ...
    2 weeks ago
  • British trade union and political activists defend women’s right to speak, organise
      The attempts of anti-democratic transactivists to (often violently) disrupt women’s rights organising is largely ignored by those sections of the left most prone to misogyny and authoritarianism in New Zealand.  In Britain, however, scores of trade union and left activists added their names to a letter in July, defending ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Turning their back on justice
    The Justice Committee has reported back on the Criminal Cases Review Commission Bill. The Bill would establish an independent, quasi-judicial body to investigate and review potential miscarriages of justice, and refer them back to the Court of appeal if required. It would be a vital backstop to our judiciary, help ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Further details of Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall visit to New Zealand
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed further details on the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall’s visit to New Zealand next month. Their Royal Highnesses will visit New Zealand from 17-23 November – their third joint visit to New Zealand and first in four years. They arrive in Auckland ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • O’Connor in Thailand to push for RCEP deal
    Minister of State for Trade and Export Growth and Minister of Agriculture, Damien O’Connor, heads to Thailand today to attend the final Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) Ministerial meeting, as negotiations enter their final stages. “The RCEP Agreement would anchor New Zealand in a regional agreement that covers 16 countries, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Young Pacific people can access earning and learning opportunities in Hawke’s Bay, Otago and South...
    Pacific young people living in the Hawke’s Bay, Southland and Otago regions will have access to support services that have proved successful in helping young people find new earning and learning opportunities. “Tupu Aotearoa is about changing Pacific young peoples’ lives. Our young people are talented, they are smart, they ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Protecting wellbeing – ACC HQSC Trauma Forum
    Introduction As the Minister for ACC I thank you all for the work that you do supporting New Zealanders in their literally most vulnerable moments. From those who hold people’s lives in their hands, to the people who research technique, technology and trends, your work is highly valued. A special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ economy in good shape – notes prepared for speeches in Christchurch
    Notes prepared for speeches in Christchurch – Wednesday 9 October 2019 Today’s topic, “trends and opportunities for the New Zealand economy,” is certainly one getting a great deal of commentary at the moment. Looking across the media landscape lately you’ll notice we aren’t the only ones having this discussion. There ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • World Mental Health Day a reminder of the importance of mental health work
    Minister of Health Dr David Clark and Associate Minister of Health Peeni Henare say this year’s World Mental Health Day theme is a reminder of why the Government’s work on mental health is so important. “This year the World Federation for Mental Health has made suicide prevention the main theme ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Cultural Ministers Meeting
    Associate Arts, Culture and Heritage Minister Carmel Sepuloni will represent the government at Australia’s Meeting of Cultural Ministers in Adelaide this week. “This year’s meeting is special because New Zealand is expected to become an International Member of the Meeting of Cultural Ministers at this Australian forum,” Carmel Sepuloni said. “The meeting is an opportunity to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • 608 claims resolved by GCCRS in first year
    The Greater Christchurch Claims Resolution Service has resolved 608 insurance and EQC claims in its first year in operation, Minister Megan Woods has announced. The government service, which celebrates its first birthday today, provides a one stop shop to help Cantabrians still battling to get their homes repaired or rebuilt ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ economy in good shape
    Today’s topic, “trends and opportunities for the New Zealand economy,” is certainly one getting a great deal of commentary at the moment. Looking across the media landscape lately you’ll notice we aren’t the only ones having this discussion. There has been an increasing amount of attention paid to the outlook ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZTA to refocus on safety following review
    The Government is acting swiftly to strengthen NZTA’s regulatory role following a review into the Transport Agency, and Ministry of Transport’s performance as its monitor, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. An independent review by Martin Jenkins has found NZTA failed to properly regulate the transport sector under the previous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Joint Cooperation Statement on Climate Change between the Netherlands and New Zealand
    The Netherlands and New Zealand have a long-standing and close relationship based on many shared interests and values. We value the rule of law, our democracies, and multilateralism.  And we value our environment – at home and globally. Right now there are major global challenges in all of these areas – ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government putting right Holidays Act underpayment in Health
    The Government is putting right a decade’s worth of underpayment to nurses, doctors and other health workers, says Health Minister Dr David Clark.  Initial sampling of District Health Boards payroll records has found that around $550-$650 million is owed to DHB staff to comply with the Holidays Act. It’s expected ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government accounts show strong economy
    A strong surplus and low debt show the economy is performing well, and means the Government is in a good position to meet the challenges of global economic uncertainty. “The surplus and low levels of debt show the economy is in good shape. This allows the Government to spend more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Ministers approve application to expand Waihi mine
    New applications from mining company OceanaGold to purchase land in Waihi for new tailings ponds associated with its gold mines have been approved. Minister of Finance Grant Robertson and Associate Minister of Finance David Parker considered the applications under the Overseas Investment Act. Earlier this year, applications from OceanaGold to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Tuia 250 Voyage flotilla launches with tribute to tangata whenua
    New Zealanders in Tūranganui-a-Kiwa / Poverty Bay will witness Māori, Pākehā and Pacific voyaging traditions come together today as the Tuia 250 Voyage flotilla assembles for the first time, Māori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti Minister Kelvin Davis says. “Tuia 250 is a national commemoration and an opportunity for honest conversations ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Visit to advance trade agenda with Europe and the Commonwealth
    Minister for Trade and Export Growth David Parker leaves tomorrow for Dubai, London and Berlin for a series of meetings to advance New Zealand’s trade interests.  In Dubai he will visit New Zealand’s Pavilion at Expo 2020 where construction is underway.  There he will meet Minister of State for International Cooperation, Her ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More cancer drugs confirmed – even more on horizon
    Confirmation that PHARMAC will fund two new cancer drugs is further evidence of the good progress the Government is making to improve the treatment of New Zealand’s leading cause of death, Health Minister David Clark says. From 1 December PHARMAC will fund alectinib (Alecensa) for ALK positive advanced non-small cell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago