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Campbell Live: Fletcher, Key, Clapper et al

Written By: - Date published: 7:23 pm, May 20th, 2014 - 202 comments
Categories: accountability, john key, Spying - Tags: , ,

Campbell Live is in the middle of showing broadcast a special on the GCSB.  It presented information never before made public.  It includes the US head of intelligence coming to NZ just before Key set up Ian Fletcher for the head of GCSB job.

Campbell is showing has shown how there was a major shift going on in NZ and 5 Eyes’ approach to intelligence.

3 News obviously think it’s pretty important.  They are were  streaming it live online.

Video now available online.

John Key’s claims of not having met Fletcher much in recent years look very hollow in retrospect..

Whose interest is the GCSB operating in?  Why has John Key mislead us, or at least, fudged the details?

Overview:

Dec 16th 2011, GCSB began illegal surveillance of Kim Dotcom.  Ian Fletcher had taken leave of his job in Brisbane to be in Wellington that week. John Key met the GCSB that week.  Key and Fletcher had a meeting that had never been revealed in spite of all the request for that info.

Timeline:

8 March 2011: Key announces that Lt general Jerry Mateparae has been appointed as Governor-General. He had only been director of the GCSB for a month.

15 March 2011: James R Clapper: US director of National Intelligence, flew into Wellington.  High powered dinner at the US Embassy.

16 March 2011: Meetings with senior members of NZ intelligence community.

Clapper met John Key in Wellington.

11 May 2011: GSCB director position vacant. [ Shortlist was then drawn out and later thrown out by PM]

17 May 2011: Hillary Clinton meets with Murray McCully and announces new warmer relations between NZ and the US.

17 June 2011: Key met Fletcher for breakfast at the Stamford Plaza Hotel in Auckland. Key later seemed to have forgotten this meeting.  Both Key and Fletcher have declined to answer repeated questions about who organised this meeting, how and why?

Fletcher had applied for recreation leave for just one day, 17 June 2011, from his job in Brisbane. [6 weeks after this Fletcher was successfully interviewed for the GCSB job]

6 July 2011: Shortlist for applicants for GCSB job scrapped. On some date after this, Key called Fletcher and suggested he apply for the job.

13 July 2011: Key announces he’s heading to US.

22 July 2011: Meets Obama in Oval Office.  Key looks like he’s landed the big one, and crows about how all Washinton’s doors were open to him.

26 July 2011: Fletcher interviewed for GCSB job by panel selected by John Key.

Mid July 2011: At same time as in the US, Key invited Ian Fletcher to apply for the head of GCSB – according to Fletcher on Campbell Live.

In the last year or so (2012/3?), John Key initially denied he’d called Fletcher.  He talked about  the State Services Commissioner calling him and making some recommendations.  Key also claimed he hadn’t really met Fletcher since their school days until he was recommended for the GCSB job.

3 October 2011: Meeting at British High Commissioner’s home in Wellington. Fletcher was still working in Aussie. At this meeting were:  Vicky Treddell (Brit High Commissioner to NZ), John Key, Martin Weavers (Head of Dept of PM & Cabinet & head of the committee that advises PM on security & intelligence – also on Fletcher’s interview panel), Warren Tucker (Head of SIS), John Allen (head of Ministry of Foreign Affairs), Lt Gen Richard Rhys Jones (chief of NZ Defense Force), Ian Fletcher.

At least 3 of these people had met with Clapper when he was in NZ: Key, Rhys Jones & John Allen.

They have refused to answer repeated questions about what they discussed at this dinner.

8 December 2011: Letter sent to John Key by Iain Rennie (state Services Commissioner) about the appointment of Ian Fletcher. Referred to a meeting planned between Key and Fletcher for 12 Noon 12 December. [Edited 21 May 2014]

12 December 2011: PM recorded his regular video journal in Parliament office. New cabinet had been sworn in. Fletcher had been expected to attend a major meeting in Aussie on this day, but sent an apology. From 12-16 December Fletcher took recreation leave from his Queensland employer. Fletcher was in NZ that week, using NZ government funding for the trip.

Key also met with the GCSB on 12 December.

14 December 2011: Grant Wormald, police officer in charge of Dotcom case, met with GCSB.

16 December 2011: GCSB’s “illegal surveillance” of Kim Dotcom began.

12-16 December: Fletcher met Key, Simon Murdoch (Acting GCSB Chief), Hugh Wolfenson (oversaw spying on Kim Dotcom)

But we are told that no-one told Key or Fletcher about the Kim Dotcom surveillance that week.

20 January 2012: Dotcom arrested. [Added 21 May 2014]

30 January 2012: Ian Fletcher’s start date at GCSB [Added 21 May 2014]

What changed with the GCSB?

Fletcher’s appointment signalled a shift from military, to a focus on intellectual property, economics, commerce and trade.

Last year (March 2013), Clapper was questioned by a Congressional committee about collecting data on US citizens. Clapper denied collecting mass data on Americans. This turned out to be not true.

[Update 21 May] As swordfish has identified, there’s a telling moment in clip included in the Campbell Live broadcast.  It’s a clip from an earlier date of John Key answering questions from the press. swordfish posted:

Probably at 7:46 on the video.

Key tells porkies (with body language that immediately betrays him) about his central involvement in the Fletcher appointment. Two journalists – rather obsequiously – mutter the reply “Great. Thank you. Thanks for that.”. And then, as he walks off to the right, Key, in turn, replies with a strangely high-pitched “Cool, see ya.”. And, I have to say, he reminds me very much of The Rain Man when he does this.

That high pitched squeaky voice is an indication of Key being under extreme pressure.

BLiP has updated his list of John Key’s changing and slippery version of the relevant events.  Note the continuing references to Key’s statements about not lying to parliament.

NB: Kim Dotcom was arrested when his mansion was raided on 20 January 2012.

 

202 comments on “Campbell Live: Fletcher, Key, Clapper et al”

  1. ffloyd 1

    Watching it now. Kaboom⁉⁉⁉

  2. Sacha 2

    Key is a crap liar. Look at the clips where he’s denying knowing Fletcher (when Campbell has revealed that he’d recently met him for breakfast before telling him to apply for the job).

    • weka 2.1

      Is he a crap liar, or does he just not give a shit? NZ has been letting him lie for so long now why would be bother trying to hide it?

      • vto 2.1.1

        He doesn’t care weka. You could see that he doesn’t care about pretty much everything in his Campbell Live interview at his beach house. He probably cares about his wife and kids, just, but that would be the absolute limit.

        This characteristic is dangerous in anybody, and especially so in someone with such control of the levers of power.

        He is a dangerous bad man weka.

        • weka 2.1.1.1

          +1

          I think I will swear profusely at the next person that tells me they’re not voting in the general election this year.

          • UglyTruth 2.1.1.1.1

            Oh please. It is the system that is f****d, not any particular party.

            • weka 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Who said anything about a particular party?

              Nevertheless, it’s easier to make change under a left wing govt. And right wing govts of this ilk do more damage by a sizeable margin, so the least we can do is take their power away.

              • Mary

                We won’t be getting a left-wing government for quite a while. The Greens and Mana haven’t quite got the numbers yet. Maybe one day…

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.1.2

              The system is fucked but National are also psychopathic.

            • Graeme Stanley 2.1.1.1.1.3

              John Key smiling assassin and puppet of the U.S.A. He’ll allow FBI to run show in a democracy with Dotcom and NZ Police,he’ll change our employment laws, and sell our assets to foreign corporate mates approve FIVE EYES Drone strikes on civilians 2400 dead plus? He has consistently been lying to the people of New Zealand in Parliament. He is not above the law.

            • SpaceMonkey 2.1.1.1.1.4

              This is not about a party. This is about the character of a man who has been voted into the most powerful office in New Zealand.

      • karol 2.1.2

        When I was drawing up the timeline for the post, rewinding and listening again to various bits on my recording of the programme, I noticed something when Key left a press Qu & A – one amswer where he is obviously being loose with the truth/denial, and he walks off to the right of the screen amidst the crowd/journos – he lets out a high pitched squeak. I seem to recall people pointing out somewhere way back, that the squeak was one of Key’s “tells”.

        • vto 2.1.2.1

          That would be interesting to see, if you could locate and link Karol …

        • Rosie 2.1.2.2

          Yep, that squeak didn’t escape me either. It his trademark expression when he’s in a tight spot. It literally is “eek!”

          • left for dead 2.1.2.2.1

            like a child getting out of a lie,for the moment.he he

          • Tracey 2.1.2.2.2

            he sucked in air quite heavily when finishing his answers in question time yesterday. haven’t heard it that marked in some time.

  3. Anne 3

    Did anyone else notice how haggard Key looked at his post Monday Press Conference yesterday? I contemplated commenting on it at TS but don’t think I got around to it.

    Was he given advance notice of tonight’s content? I bet he bloody was, and not from Campbell Live either.

    Congratulations John Campbell and all the team. A magnificent effort to get at the truth!

    Now how is Johnny boy going to spin this one?

    Edit: hahaha. We know now how he bought his popularity with the Yanks. He not only doesn’t care about NZ, he is devoid of any integrity whatsoever. Shame on him!

    • Richard Christie 3.1

      Was he given advance notice of tonight’s content?

      Gower works at TV3, he’d probably wet his pants at a chance to have his ears scratched by his hero in exchange for such a hat tip.

  4. vto 4

    That was fascinating.

    Key is a liar. Worked for American investment bank. Invited to the board of the new York federal reserve. Canned the standard procedure for appointment of GCSB director. Lied about getting his old school friend Fletcher the GCSB director job. Had the biggest spy boss in America come to NZ, Clapper. Clapper is the worlds biggest liar. Removed Mataparae from GCSB director role just a few months in by making him GG. Key plays golf with American President Obama. Key has home in America. Key changes laws to suit American Hollywood business. NZ police do American bidding by spying on NZ resident. Allow FBI to do as please within our borders, including ketting vital evidence be removed. More Key lies.

    On it goes….

    Fuck the Americans.

    And does anybody believe John Key anymore when he says “can’t recall”? What a blatant liar.

    liar liar liar

    • Just to clarify.
      Hawaii is occupied USA.
      America is the whole of the Americas from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego.
      Most Americans including those in the USA itself are like most NZers spied upon.
      NZ is a neo-colony of the USA.
      But we, the working people, are the big majority.
      They spy and lie because they know that.
      They track we hack.

      • vto 4.1.1

        The term ‘America’ and ‘Americans’ is clearly a colloquial reference to the USA and its people. I wouldn’t have thought it needed explaining, but there you go….. thanks for the correction…

        And the fact people in the USA (Americans) are spied on also has nada to do with it.

        The rest of your comment, well, you lost me.

    • Tracey 4.2

      if you didnt see cl last night, and i didnt, and you went to stuff and herald online for a scan of overnight stories, you would have no idea that our pm appears to have been caught in some important lies.

      the herald considers banks trial online newsworthy this morning, but stuff dont.

      most nzers today have no ida the pm was proven a liar last night.

      • Grantoc 4.2.1

        Thats because its all conjecture, tending towards conspiracy theory. You’re jumping the gun by accusing the pm of being a liar.

        Apart from that most NZders will simply say ‘so what’. It won’t produce anything but a big yawn from them.

        • Tracey 4.2.1.1

          ok. which is it. key didnt lie or no one cares that he did. you have offered both.

          john key said iain rennie suggested ian fletcher for the job. the state services commission says at a meeting rejecting four candidates key offered up fletcher and he and rennie agreed key would contact fletcher.

          that means key lied.

          so, i havent jumped the gun, you have closed your eyes thinking that will stop it being a gun.

          • Grantoc 4.2.1.1.1

            What it is is conspiracy hysteria that satisfies the needy of the left who are totally frustrated by Key and his enduring popularity.

            What is is John Campbell wanking himself silly on tv because he can’t get his jollies in any other way.

            What is does is to reveal dotcom as a narcissist fantasist.

            And whatever it is the vast bulk of Nzders couldn’t give a damn. And it will make no difference to how they vote in Sptmeber

            • karol 4.2.1.1.1.1

              The main story from the Campbell Live show, is not about Dotcom. There’s a clear narrative laid out. As I reported in my post:

              Campbell is showing has shown how there was a major shift going on in NZ and 5 Eyes’ approach to intelligence.

              […]
              Fletcher’s appointment signalled a shift from military, to a focus on intellectual property, economics, commerce and trade.

              And as shown in the timeline presented in CL, Key has led a major suck up to US military and surveillance powers – he’s basically been selling out NZ to powerful US interests.

              And the Clapper role points to the way NZ and the NZ intelligence agencies have colluded with the US mass surveillance of ordinary people and businesses.

              • mickysavage

                It is important to note the areas that Key glossed over, mostly the interaction with Fletcher. Key downplays this.

                • karol

                  True, micky.

                  Fletcher does seem to be a very important element in the shift in focus of the GCSB and the re-alignment with the US players.

                • veutoviper

                  This is probably not the right place to comment on this, but at present I am time and energy limited due to other commitments, but in the last hour or so, Paul Buchanan has posted (IMO) a really interesting comment on Russell Brown’s “Circumstance and Coincidence” post on Public Address.

                  Hope this link works.

                  http://publicaddress.net/system/profile?id=27548

                  I would not usually quote the whole comment due to length – but it stood out for me as being a very possible ‘explanation’ for what has gone down re Dotcom and the takedown of Megaload.

                  You may be correct Russell with regards to the encryption (or lack thereof,) of Megaupload, but then again there may have been more to Dotcom’s business practices than meets the eye when it comes to issues of international security. The hard fact is that it is extraordinary that US intel agencies–not just the FBI– would get involved at such length in a copyright dispute (the money laundering charges are just an add-on based on the distribution of profits reaped from Dotcom’s success). For the NSA to devote concerted and focused resources towards Dotcom intercepts, then convince its 5 eyes counterpart in NZ to continue them at the margins of the law (because the decision to illegally wiretap was made in NZ, not in the US), suggests that there was a bit more to the story than some Hollywood-DC political conspiracy.

                  Lets put it this way since I was asked by Sean if the Dotcom case was about Hollywood money going to a Joe Biden campaign: Joe Biden would not have a clue as to what a “cloud” was other than what he sees in the sky, so the suggestion that his campaign was funded by Hollywood types hating on Dotcom seems far-fetched. Moreover, Biden was the second on a party ticket in 2008 and 2012, dates that do not coincide with the Dotcom timetable in NZ. Nor dos he have any previous discernible relationship with the movie making industry, which is not as monolithic as some might think .

                  After all, unlike NZ where Hollywood people can get the government to change labour laws to suits their needs, the US is a big and varied place with more than one center of power (in fact, dozens). There are plenty of Republicans in Hollywood and pseudo-libertarians like Rand Paul who would jump at the opportunity to exploit some Obama/movie mogul cronyism for political gain. Yet none of that has happened.

                  I remain of the opinion that there was more than copyright issues involved in this case, hence the weirdness.

                  Here is a suggestion for you and other journalists now that I have put the thought of something else driving the Dotcom case into the public domain: why not ask Dotcom directly if he or his minions were ever approached by the US government with regard to installing backdoors on his servers?

                  Brown has replied that he will be following through on the last para. Regrettably PG is in there completely out of his depth as usual ….

                  Must rush, but this makes a lot of sense etc to me.

                  • karol

                    Thanks, veuto. That’s interesting. Looking at that discussion, PB’s comment followed mention of PB’s interview on Radio Live by Sean Plunket today about the CL programme.

                    Buchanan says that Clapper came down to signal the nature of the game has shifted and use the word synchronicity. This led to many things including the Dotcom arrest.

                    Buchanan also says it “denies incredulity” that Key was not away of the operation concerning Dotcom or that Fletcher was not informed in advance.

                    He said there’s something else behind the surveiellance of Dotcom. The NSA wouldn’t normally focus on a copyright issue. Dotcom was surveilled by NSA in Hong Kong and before he came to NZ. They continued to do the surveillance in NZ, and got caught out when Dotcom became a resident.

                    The US government were allowed by many internet providers – google etc into their user files (NSA access given). It is highly likely that Dotcom refused to cooperate in this way, triggering the NSA to get on his case, for (alleged) reasons that his website might include stuff being uploaded by “terrorists”.

                    In the Public Address discussion, Russell Brown said this about Question Time:

                    Key has just been pressed on the issues at Question Time.
                    – He has admitted that *both* meetings with Fletcher were organised by his office.
                    – But he insists he didn’t discuss the GCSB role at all with Fletcher at the breakfast meeting.
                    – Asked about his false statement that Rennie came to him with the proposal to hire Fletcher: “that was my recollection at the time”.
                    – He “can’t be sure” whether DPMC briefed him about Kim Dotcom on December 14.
                    The last one is absurd. He’s been repeatedly pressed on his foreknowledge of Dotcom and insisted he’d never even heard of the guy until January 19. Now he says he hasn’t even checked to see whether he got a briefing on Dotcom from his own department?
                    How on earth does he get away with this stuff?

                    Russell Brown’s post on the CL programme is also worth reading.

            • karol 4.2.1.1.1.2

              Conspiracy theories – the right has their share. Evil communists under the beds, Islamic jihads infiltrating Auckland…. etc.

    • Robert 4.3

      Crap, Fletcher is just a more acceptable frontman and PR. Dotcom the payoff. The targets are selected in the US and Canada and the data analysed their. Post 2WW NZ defence policy was simply a branch office of the Royal Navy and our intelligence efforts were basically controlled and analysed from Ottawa. NZ Intelligence was essentially a branch office of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the totally Soviet penetrated intelligence services. With the Walker brother spy ring all our communciations have been going straight to Moscow ,Murmansk or Vladivostok for ever.
      Other than Muldoon or Clark no NZ politician has had the slightest understanding of any of these issues and certainly didn’t want to know anything. The local GCSB are only the bofins doing the local; targeting. The cyber and trade the American are interested are those relevant to missiles, military computers and sonar and military surveillance. The cyber attacks are those conducted by the Russians to shut down the defence in Ukraine or Georgia a few years ago.
      What would be the point in intercepting TPP negotiations when it comes it will a defence pact between US, Canada, Japan and Australia. They hardly need to intercept MFAT calls to know that Grosser is a Maoist not a friend.

  5. ianmac 5

    Did Key know about Kim Dotcom before the raid? Key says No. The confluence of meetings and who met who must put a lie to this tonight on CL.

    • weka 5.1

      Let’s just hope KDC hasn’t been stringing us all along re the evidence.

      • karol 5.1.1

        Yes. I’m not holding my breath for a big reveal from KDC.

        • weka 5.1.1.1

          His trial is before the election though isn’t it?

        • Tracey 5.1.1.2

          rachel glucina gives space to tony astle talking about banning dotcom from antoines, and saying dotcom only started going to antoines once he knew key went there for fundraisers. timing is just coincidence, right?

  6. ianmac 7

    The trouble is that the story is just so big that unless a prime easily understood target is presented to we the public, it will be hard to get traction for those who are worried about jobs, mortages, pay, food, education etc. (Russell Brown today, was staggered that there was no wide spread outrage re the lack of Pike River prosecution. NZ Security is even bigger and will be hard to excite. )

    • Yep I agree ian – the target key was let off the hook imo – better to be explicit rather than implicit with that bastard.

    • mickysavage 8.1

      Yep the text is interesting:

      On December 16, 2011, the GCSB began its illegal surveillance of Kim Dotcom.
      Neither the Prime Minister, nor the incoming GCSB head Ian Fletcher, were told about it.
      But tonight Campbell Live can reveal that Mr Fletcher had taken leave from his job in Queensland, Australia, to be in Wellington that week, and that he and the Prime Minister met the GCSB that same week.

      Mr Key and Mr Fletcher had a secret meeting that has never previously been revealed, despite all the requests for details of when the pair had met during the year of Mr Fletcher’s somewhat controversial appointment to the job.

      Didn’t Key say repeatedly that he had not heard about Dotcom until after the raid had happened?

      If so what the GCSB talk to him about?

      EDIT: What Ianmac said …

    • karol 8.2

      Thanks. Added to post.

  7. andy (the other one) 9

    I got the feeling that JC has ‘more to come’. It all kind of ended flat without a final narrative. You don’t go big and call the PM a liar without making sure you have your bases covered.
    (bad pun)..

    I am wondering if JC is privy to parts of the Snowdon leaks, as I have said before, we are last to be revealed in the leaks about our 5 eyes involvement . The information flow has started with a drip feed and is moving to a constant flow.

    Is Hagar involved, he is very quiet. Will there be a ‘Corn Gate’ equivalent for Key?

    What sh!ts me is that Key has painted a big target on NZ’s back, for the price of a meet and greet.

    Ostensibly we are a 1st world nation with very soft security. One nation state has proved that in the Auckland harbour in the past.

    Suddenly, working in the Auckland CBD, I feel vulnerable.

    • karol 9.1

      I think this programme maybe was timed to coincide with Dotcom’s appearance in court re Banks?

      • vto 9.1.1

        There is something odd about the timing but I don’t think that is it, though close. Mine mind said, on hearing of the Obama visit announcement, Campbell went … “yup, this is the moment, run it..”.

        • felix 9.1.1.1

          Yep.

          • Anne 9.1.1.1.1

            Which means they’ve been sitting on the finished production for some time waiting for exactly the right moment. With Dotcom on the witness stand and the Obama visit announcement on the same day the CL team must have thought all their Xmas’ had come at once.

            No wonder Key is looking a little strained these days.

    • Lanthanide 9.2

      Nicky Hagar categorically denied that he had any of the Snowden leaks this morning on Morning Report.

      • karol 9.2.1

        Recently I heard Paul Buchanan on the radio about the Snowden data. He said that journos would not be given data to analyse that pertains to their own country. They could be done by their own authorities for crimes against their government or some such thing.

        He said Hagar wouldn’t have been given anything pertaining to NZ.

        • Colonial Viper 9.2.1.1

          Indeed. Targetting of journalists and degrading of the free press is a typical behaviour of security and surveillance states.

    • Grantoc 9.3

      You poor precious pussy.

      The Auckland CBD is one of the worlds terrorist hot targets. Really. Aren’t you being just a little paranoiac?

  8. North 10

    Calling BLiP calling BLiP…….

    The host of factors identified by vto@4 above are historical realities. Together they found very, very credible inference.

    Ever sat through a judge instructing a jury about circumstantial evidence ? The strands of a rope – no individual strand carrying particular weight – entwined together however ? Bam !

    You’d have to be SSlands or GooseMan or that other fuck Bowel Motion to attempt sanitation here.

    One thing we know for sure is this: when ShonKey Python said he hadn’t even heard of Dotcom until a day before the Raid On The Mansion – HE DELIBERATELY LIED TO PARLIAMENT.

    Sorry Ponce. Zero Tolerance. Resign. Bugger off and make early claim to your quid pro quo for treason. The beautiful thing is that no matter how you spin it…….’when’ he knew about KDC had long since ceased to be a matter of national security (if it ever was). When he lied The Raid On The Mansion was well in the past. No excuse there. HE DELIBERATELY LIED TO PARLIAMENT.

    Confirms the political truism – “It’s not the offence (in this case the nodding and the winking towards the illegal US directed raid), it’s the lies which comprise the cover up”.

  9. Hennie van der Merwe 11

    Mataparae was the natural sucsessor for the GCSB job and duly got it. It was surely known for a long time that the previous GG was retiring – why was Mataparae not earlier considered for that position (before appointment at GCSB) but after just one month at GCSB he got the GG job? Me smells another Key.

    • Anne 11.1

      The time lines escape me now Hennie.., but I do recall at the time figuring that Key probably received his instructions from his US masters AFTER he had already appointed Mataparae to GCSB position. That would have presented him with a dilemma – how to get him out of the position so that he could appoint Fletcher. He came up with the brilliant idea… I know, I’ll make him GG,.. that’ll solve the problem. And it came to pass…

      • Jane 11.1.1

        My interpretation also Anne. It makes no sense to appoint him for one month only when the GG role vacancy is known so far in advance. Also what’s with the media blanket over the proof now that John Key has lied (read lies a lot)? How could this not be news?

        • karol 11.1.1.1

          It’s more the secondary media covering it. Radio Live interviewed Paul Buchanan on it. Russell Brown did a post on it.

          Mainstream press and TV have been holding back – and RNZ.

  10. Awww 12

    Is there a reason comments are closed on that video??

  11. Ad 13

    Pretty easy hit for Campbell Live – after all neither Key nor any official is ever going to be able to front on the issue for operational reasons.

    Smacks of his setup with Helen Clark with the so-called Corngate interview.

    • Paul 13.1

      You’re kidding, right?

    • Colonial Viper 13.2

      Pretty easy hit for Campbell Live – after all neither Key nor any official is ever going to be able to front on the issue for operational reasons.

      Don’t buy into the BS evasive ‘trust us we know what we are doing for your own good’ propaganda. Another one: “We can’t comment on that because it’s a matter of national security.” 99% of the time what they actually mean is the security of the power-elite and their preferred status quo set up in society.

      And I think you misunderstand what valid “operational reasons” in a democracy actually are. Putting a current surveillance operation or field agent at risk, is a no-no. Disclosing specific technical abilities in ways which allow enemies of the state to counter them is a no-no.

      But the PM explaining serious inconsistencies with appointment processes, the appearance of a lack of independence of NZ state security agencies from foreign influence, and policies with regards to towards targetting your own citizens – in a real democracy of the people, for the people, all that stuff should be up for grabs and public officials need to be fronting up pronto.

      In a security and surveillance state geared to the needs and protection of a select elite, they needn’t bother of course.

    • Ergo Robertina 13.3

      Ad, your comment seems reactionary, the piece was not an ‘easy hit’ in any sense. For one, Campbell Live’s been slogging away with OIAs for years on this story, and, there was (unfortunately) no major development in the story tonight. What’s new is some further meetings revealed that elaborate the story Campbell has told before, adding credence to the narrative of New Zealand’s status as a lapdog, if not a vassal state.

  12. fisiani 14

    Innuedo but thats all. A Campbell classic that will go nowhere.Going to have to do a lot better than that to tarnish John Key.

    • North 14.1

      You’re hoping FizzyAnus. I note that you’re a significant way down the track however, in that you even acknowledge innuendo. Certainly a Campbell Classic. You’d have to be a fuckwit……oh well of course.

    • thatguynz 14.2

      :roll: Still a fucktard.

    • appleboy 14.3

      JOHN KEY IS UNTARNISHED? Oh my god…how is it in la la land. You Right Wing Nutters get me laughing every time.

    • framu 14.4

      well of course key looks untarnished if your looking close up and from just below the belt

  13. North 15

    Yeah Ad, you’re a worry sometimes, going right back to your scoffy scoffy number, from a position of stunning ignorance, about the ruination of legal aid in New Zealand.

    • North 15.1

      What was it again……..? “Boo Hoo for the lawyers”. No such civility as to consider the real victims of Simon Power’s nastiness and the bullshit, “anecdotal”, written to order nonsense of that trusty old ‘report-to-order-writer’ Dame Margaret Bazley. Victims like the residents of the town where I work. Average income $17,000 pa. Studied iconoclasm is nought more than the vanity of the igno’ guy who thinks he’s cool. You’re it.

  14. Rosie 16

    You’ve really got to hand it to John Campbell and his team. Their stories and investigations this year have been thoroughly researched and the broadcasting of them has been for the public good, synthetic cannabis just as one example, and look how influential that was.

    Tonight’s show though was a masterpiece and has really blown the lid off the Government’s dirty laundry basket – it will be interesting to see the reaction and consequences over the next few days and weeks.

    After that show Key’s upcoming trip to see Obama might not be the media love in that it usually is, perhaps. Surely NZer’s must finally and at long last see Key for who he really is, a shameless hollow puppet of the U.S.

  15. Stuart Munro 17

    Well it explains Whaleoil’s sudden Muslim hate frenzy. It’s a distractor. Might not be big enough though – wonder if we’ll merit a false flag attack.

    • Lanthanide 17.1

      Oh please.

      • Colonial Viper 17.1.1

        what’s unreasonable about considering the question?

      • Stuart Munro 17.1.2

        Do you mean to tell me Key is so scrupulous he wouldn’t do it? I don’t think there’s much he wouldn’t do myself.
        An enemy that anticipates such distractions makes a bad target.

        • Lanthanide 17.1.2.1

          Next you’ll be claiming Key is really a reptilian.

          [lprent: Whatta mean – you think he isn’t? His chief of staff was unable to find anything to say that he was not. Are you saying the Captain Panicpants didn’t look hard enough? Same on you for denigrating this hard worker of toilets…. :twisted: ]

  16. Colonial Viper 18

    Outstanding write-up karol.

    Clapper denied collecting mass data on Americans. This turned out to be not true.

    That’s very politic wording – Clapper lied in front of Congress, which is a felony offence. Of course, the “justice system” in the USA now is run by the power elite for the power elite, so Clapper is still happily running around doing his thing talking about how all this secrecy and all this technology is designed to protect “us” from the “enemy”.

    Which all makes sense when you consider “us” as the power elite and their preferred pro-corporate status quo, and the “enemy” – not Islamic Jihadists, but in fact any citizen who dares to challenge or question that hierarchy.

    So Manning gets tortured and imprisoned for 30 years, but the Apache Gunship crew in the footage released by Manning, the ones who murdered the Reuters cameraman in Iraq and killed the civilians (including children) who went to try and rescue them – zip. No charges, no prosecution.

    • karol 18.1

      Well, CV, the wording was pretty much what was used by Campbell.

      Thanks, but I just tried to draw up a timeline from the programme.

    • Anne 18.2

      One has the impression the SIS was pretty much left out of this little number – except (perhaps) being asked to research Dotcom’s background in the initial stages. If that was the case, then any such request would have been generated through the PM because he is the Minister in Charge of the SIS … oh wait, I’ve got it wrong cos John Key never knew Dotcom existed before the raid took place.

      Back to the drawing board.

    • Sacha 18.3

      “Clapper lied in front of Congress”

      And apologised for it. Guess that might be in the follow-up story after we see how the piggies wriggle.

      • Colonial Viper 18.3.1

        a sincere apology should reduce his prison sentence by 1-2 years, yes.

        The point I am making though is that he has got off scot free, no charges, no prosecution, no nothing, and Congress has no will or ability to pursue it.

        This is the appearance of democracy in amongst a whole lot of political theatre design to distract not enlighten.

  17. karol 19

    Grant Robertson has made some interesting tweets.

    On the breakfast:

    @althecat @CampbellLiveNZ The breakfast got a run in media in April 2013. Key denied in written question to me that GCSB role discussed.

    On what is new and what was not new in CL tonight:

    @althecat yeah the info from Queensland is new, as is December mtg with Fletcher. Otherwise the story put together (very well) existing info

    What Key lied about:

    @Brownie55 @richardhills777 @CampbellLiveNZ John Key lied about Fletcher appt and his role. That is the point I am making.

    • Clemgeopin 19.1

      Will be interesting to see how Key reacts top all this trying to wriggle out.
      In the end, truth will always prevail.

      Even Nixon and Clinton couldn’t lie for too long. They got exposed ultimately.

  18. North 20

    Yeah CV……..makes you weep. The people of The World are gonna turn on it in the end though. History commands it really. The sadness is it’ll probably take quite a long time. How many heroic souls are gonna be wasted in the meantime, as puffed up frauds like ShonKey Python continue to rape the ordinary people so they can have more, more, more, on an astronomical scale ?

  19. Colonial Viper 21

    This Zerohedge article on US surveillance policies is a must read

    Spitzer – the tough New York Attorney General who went after corrupt bankers more than anyone since – was snared through the Patriot Act. Former CIA director General Petraeus was brought down when the government spied on his email communications. Binney has previously said that Petraeus seems to have gotten on the government’s “enemies list”, and was thus spied on … and drummed out as CIA director. General Allen was also relieved of his position when his emails were leaked. The government has now admitted that it spied on the Associated Press. More.

    Binney has also said that “We are now in a police state”, because the government is “laundering” data generated by mass surveillance, to go after people that – for whatever reason – the government doesn’t like. This is especially concerning because it is clear that mass surveillance is being used more to crush dissent than to stop terrorism. (And that’s been true for 500 years. And see this).

    Another high-level NSA whistleblower – Russel Tice (mentioned above by Diame Roark) – says that the NSA is spying on – and blackmailing – top government officials and military officers, including Supreme Court Justices, high-ranked generals, Colin Powell and other State Department personnel, and many other top officials. And see this:

    The YouTube videos embedded are also must-see’s

    http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2014-05-19/nsa-spying-power-grab

    Bottom line: the security and surveillance state is now beyond the reach of any elected official.

  20. Draco T Bastard 22

    First time is happenstance
    Second time is coincidence
    Third time is planning

    What Campbell shows is meticulous planning.

    • Paul 22.1

      “Mr Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: ‘Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action’.”

  21. Philj 23

    xox
    Where is our NATIONAL State broadcaster, in case you forgot, Tvnz? They are a sad , overpaid bunch of giggling twits. Sell it off or a thorough clean out is needed.

    • Gosman 23.1

      This is not really featuring on Radio NZ National either. Perhaps that could be sold off at the same time.

  22. repateet 24

    Am I allowed to say from what I’ve seen over many months to do with John Key and his knowledge of and connection and association with Ian Fletcher, that I think our Prime Minister’s a lying bastard?

  23. Clemgeopin 25

    The MPs who should be greatly worried and who should hold Key accountable and DEMAND answers are the National party MPs. Sadly, I doubt if they have enough honour, integrity courage to care in order to do the right thing.
    Also remains to be seen if the general public care or just remain blaze and complacent thinking, as usual. ‘she’ll be alright, mate’!

  24. ianmac 26

    A possibility is that Key and his Legal team could slap an injunction on Campbell Live or at least the story and bring some sort of charge which would take 6 months or so to process by which time….. Think the tea-tape injunctions. If so, in the meantime no one may discuss as it would be sub-judacie. Would they get away with it? National Security is at stake ‘ya know.

    • Lanthanide 26.1

      John Key very recently said he didn’t want to have a bad relationship with the media, vis-a-vis Collins’ little outburst.

      For a PM to stick a public lawsuit over this particular piece would be PR suicide.

      In the “love to see wages drop” debacle, it was a two-bit journalist who was shut-down behind the scenes.

      • Colonial Viper 26.1.1

        For a PM to stick a public lawsuit over this particular piece would be PR suicide.

        Definitely. It would be a completely independent action taken by the police after careful and candid consultation with the SIS vis a vis an urgent issue of national security.

    • North 26.2

      No. They would not get away with it. I’m not gonna say I would be amongst those who would rally up and yell the injucted words loud and long. I know plenty who would say that they would however, and indeed would. With some glee. They are my honourable, decent mates. They would !

      ShonKey Python is a simpering, effete, lying arsehole. He is not God. Time we stopped fancying that he is. Just because Michelle Boag (“love your beautiful house Brian”) says so. No. He hasn’t the balls to dare. It’d be all on for young and old if he did. I half look forward to it actually.

  25. Redzone 27

    Pants on fire key.
    Let’s see you try and weasel out of this one. Perhaps tweet ya mate Collins for some advice? Some ‘recreational’ leave maybe?
    Lies and deceit have a funny way of catching you up and biting you in the arse!
    Nice job Campbell and perfect timing.
    QT should be fun….

  26. fisiani 28

    Put your money where your laptop is. Get on to ipredict and make a packet on National losing.

    • karol 28.1

      That is relevant to the Campbell Live programme how?

      The problem with what has been happening to the GCSB is that it is all about the money – and that is what has gone so wrong with the last couple of decades.

    • Colonial Viper 28.2

      Put your money where your laptop is. Get on to ipredict and make a packet on National losing.

      Turning our democracy and nationhood into a money making game. Thanks for your great input Fisi.

    • appleboy 28.3

      Typical – you and the Hoo Ten! brigade – all fixated on ipredict betting on the election. n eye into the right whingers mind set as ever.

    • RedLogix 28.4

      The flood of crackpot sycophancy suddenly dried up fisi?

  27. adam 29

    When our leaders do not fear us the people. They do what they want.

  28. Redzone 30

    Thanks CV my thoughts exactly

    Fisiani ipredict that you must really love this self serving corrupt crony govt. Bet on that.

  29. RedBaronCV 31

    Does John Key hold a USA passport?

  30. Gosman 32

    There is hardly a smoking gun revelation here. It looks very much like John Campbell is drawing a very long bow on this. He might have some further revelations though. Would be anticlimactic if he doesn’t.

    • appleboy 32.1

      Oh yeah, sure. Key’s lies about meetings with Fletcher are nothing. The timing of events is just coincidence. Those shifty lying eyes in the clip where Key had asked about how much contact he had had with Fletcher. La La Land again. You Right Whinging Nut Jobs crack me up.

      • Gosman 32.1.1

        Not much media pick up though. Radio NZ National is leading with cricket match fixing. Haven’t seen much on Stuff or NZ Herald about this either. Of course this might be indicative of massive media bias. I threshing it is in State owned media as well. Seems you can t escape it no matter what :-).

        • freedom 32.1.1.1

          yeah and how long did it take papers and TV to catch up to the Washington Post back in ’72?

        • Gosman 32.1.1.2

          No idea but the Washington Post at least had something substantive rather than speculative allegations.

          • vto 32.1.1.2.1

            he who laughs last laughs best gosman

            this is far from over … in fact I would suggest it has just begun

            but then, you know, maybe you are right and it is all just conspiracy theory stuff. Cause, you know, humans never conspire, especially politicians

            he who laughs last laughs best gosman…… remind me when it is all done and see who has the smile

            • Gosman 32.1.1.2.1.1

              I’m sure it will run for a bit maybe right up till the election. It certainly gets the blood up for people like yourself. However unless there is something concrete to come out it is unlikely to be much more than a fringe issue. That is not to state there is nothing behind the allegations just that at this moment there is nothing to worry National unduly.

              • freedom

                the NZ govt paying travel costs for Fletcher’s recreation leave is what ? random clerical error?

              • vto

                fine piece of pin-dancing there gosman….

                in fact it is about more than that. It is about the USA coming into my life and spying. It is about our country being compromised by the PM. It is about the FBI operating at will within our borders. It is about lies, deceit and trust. It is about my resources being used to kill innocent people with drones.

                Sure, go ahead and dismiss it all if you wish, that is your choice, but do not underestimate how intensely personal and directly applicable to our lives it is.

                It most definitely gets the blood up.

            • marty mars 32.1.1.2.1.2

              Is that really true – that he who laughs last, laughs best. I’m not arguing with you but when i think of ‘bad’ people who spend years and years ripping people off, lying and whatever bad shit bad people do and laughing all the time and then after 5/10/20years they get caught and punished and those ripped off get to laugh last – but the perps have laughed a lot longer and harder over the years and somehow just because the laugh is last it is supposed to be the best?

        • framu 32.1.1.3

          “Not much media pick up though.”

          see that – that right there? – thats you shifting the goalposts. What was wrong with your opening argument?

          you seemed so certain that this isnt a smoking gun – but wait, what – youve suddenly dropped that angle

          • Tracey 32.1.1.3.1

            Exactly

            perhaps people should disengage with mr gosman when he does it, or repeat the original matter.

            • Once was Tim 32.1.1.3.1.1

              I agree (when I can constrain myself). I notice Mr Gosman has started using the Judithism too of “drawing long bows” … dead giveaway!

    • Tracey 32.2

      please post your refutations of the cl allegations with links and sourcing so we can all examine the long bow you can see being drawn?

      lack of coverage by competitors is not proof of a long bow being drawn.

      • Gosman 32.2.1

        Not sure you understand how these things work. An allegation doesn’t necessarily have to be countered for it to be false. If I state that you are stalking me I doubt people would believe me and require you to prove that you have not been doing so. However if I provided some sort of hard evidence that you have been stalking me then I would expect people would want to know your explanation. In short, until Campbell stumps up with something a little more substantive this is not going to get much traction.

        • Tracey 32.2.1.1

          i keep seeing you demand evidence from people to support their views so i thought i would see if you would do as you ask.

          turns out you dont believe anything on cl because you dont want to believe it.

          help us all to the light, go through karols post and campbell live and counter the points being made. help us gosman.perhaps start with key statement about when he first had contact with ian fletcher, thats one area most seem divided.

          • Gosman 32.2.1.1.1

            Name me one bit of substantive evidence of some sort of inappropriate behaviour then and I will attempt to counter it or at least acknowledge there might be a bigger issue that needs to be investigated.

            • freedom 32.2.1.1.1.1

              The NZ govt paying travel costs for Fletcher’s recreation leave is what ?
              A random clerical error?

              • Gosman

                Not necessarily evidence of anything untoward. Is this illegal or even is it anything unusual? I suspect not because otherwise why formalise it. Of course I could be wrong so I would hope the opposition asks questions on this in Parliament to find out if it was illegal.

                • freedom

                  did you actually watch the broadcast? or just sit in front of the screen going lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala with your fingers in your ears and a bag over your head?

                  • Gosman

                    Seems like the rest of the media must have done the same thing then since they are as outraged as you are.

                • Tracey

                  So your basic premise is if something is not against the law, in the crimes act, it’s okee dokee by you?

                  You suspect not? Suspicion isnt enough gosman, find out, and let us know.

            • Tracey 32.2.1.1.1.2

              and there go the goalposts.

            • Stuart Munro 32.2.1.1.1.3

              Post-facto legalisation of the illegal GCSB activity.

              Post-facto legalisation is always inappropriate.

        • framu 32.2.1.2

          “require you to prove that you have not been doing so.”

          what fantasy land do you inhabit?

          if you accused someone of stalking you YOU have to show that they have been

          Obviously you f**k pigs – go on, prove you dont

          • Gosman 32.2.1.2.1

            Exactly my point. Thanks for reinforcing it even though you weren’t trying to do so.

            • Tracey 32.2.1.2.1.1

              “looks like john campbell is drawing a very long bow on this” Gosman 21 May 2014

              ‘ HOW KEY’S STORY CHANGED

              “His appointment was made by the state services commissioner.” – John Key, March 27.

              “I wouldn’t go that far. I haven’t seen the guy in a long time.” – Key, March 27, when asked if Fletcher was a friend.

              “There were no more than a handful of interactions, in total, between Key and Fletcher between the mid-2000s and the time of Fletcher’s appointment at the GCSB.” – Key’s April 2 written answer to questions from The Dominion Post, which also confirmed he made the phone call to Fletcher.

              “I’d forgotten that at that particular time.” – Key on April 3 as to why he had not disclosed the call earlier. He also admitted: “I know his number.”

              “I genuinely have no clue. I do not know how I got the number.” – Key tells Parliament on April 16.

              He then followed that with: “I did not, at that point, have Ian Fletcher’s mobile phone number. To the best of my knowledge, I actually rang the directory service to get the Queensland number. I do not actually have his number.”

              “I have once attended a dinner … at which Fletcher was one of several people present … at the residence of the British High Commissioner on October 3, 2011 … during my time as prime minister I have twice had breakfast with Fletcher before he became director of the GCSB. This happened on March 12, 2010, at the Hyatt Regency in Auckland, and June 17, 2011, at the Stamford in Auckland.” – Key, April 23.

              “He recalls the prime minister telling him at a meeting in 2009 that he knew Fletcher … the commissioner was discussing his general approach to the recruitment of chief executives. The commissioner’s recollection is that the prime minister advised him that he knew Fletcher from school in Christchurch, and that he had met Fletcher infrequently since then.” – Statement from State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie, April 23.

              The Dominion Post” APRIL 2013

              “”Last week he admitted he knew Fletcher from school days – but when quizzed about the appointment said his only role was to accept a recommendation from State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie. .” March 2013

              State Services Commission

              “On 14 June 2011, Prime Minister agreed that the following members sit on the selection panel, as proposed by the Commissioner: Mr (now Sir) Maarten Wevers, Chief Executive of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet; Mr John McKinnon, Chief Executive and Secretary of Defence, Ministry of Defence; and Ms Helene Quilter, Acting Deputy State Services Commissioner (now Secretary of Defence). The Prime Minister was invited to suggest additional members of the panel but declined to do so.”

              “On 6 July 2011, the Commissioner reported to the Prime Minister on the potential short-list of four candidates. The Commissioner advised the Prime Minister that he had concerns whether any of the candidates could undertake the role at the level of performance expected, given the context facing the GCSB. As the Prime Minister has indicated, it was agreed not to proceed further with the consideration of any of these candidates.

              Given the priority of providing GCSB with a permanent director, the focus of discussion between the Prime Minister and Commissioner was on identifying further candidates during the current appointment process. However, if not successful, it was understood that the position would need to be re-advertised in early 2012.

              As the Prime Minister has indicated, following the meeting with the Commissioner he contacted Mr Fletcher to advise him of the vacancy. Mr Wevers then advised the Commissioner of Mr Fletcher’s possible interest in the position.”

              Not a short meeting one suspects. To discuss the existing candidates and the concern they werent up to it. This is the GCSB and the PM forgot this meeting…and that he said he would call Ian Fletcher, cos I assume that is going to be your long bow defence gosman?

    • Tracey 32.3

      “looks like john campbell is drawing a very long bow on this” Gosman 21 May 2014

      ‘ HOW KEY’S STORY CHANGED

      “His appointment was made by the state services commissioner.” – John Key, March 27.

      “I wouldn’t go that far. I haven’t seen the guy in a long time.” – Key, March 27, when asked if Fletcher was a friend.

      “There were no more than a handful of interactions, in total, between Key and Fletcher between the mid-2000s and the time of Fletcher’s appointment at the GCSB.” – Key’s April 2 written answer to questions from The Dominion Post, which also confirmed he made the phone call to Fletcher.

      “I’d forgotten that at that particular time.” – Key on April 3 as to why he had not disclosed the call earlier. He also admitted: “I know his number.”

      “I genuinely have no clue. I do not know how I got the number.” – Key tells Parliament on April 16.

      He then followed that with: “I did not, at that point, have Ian Fletcher’s mobile phone number. To the best of my knowledge, I actually rang the directory service to get the Queensland number. I do not actually have his number.”

      “I have once attended a dinner … at which Fletcher was one of several people present … at the residence of the British High Commissioner on October 3, 2011 … during my time as prime minister I have twice had breakfast with Fletcher before he became director of the GCSB. This happened on March 12, 2010, at the Hyatt Regency in Auckland, and June 17, 2011, at the Stamford in Auckland.” – Key, April 23.

      “He recalls the prime minister telling him at a meeting in 2009 that he knew Fletcher … the commissioner was discussing his general approach to the recruitment of chief executives. The commissioner’s recollection is that the prime minister advised him that he knew Fletcher from school in Christchurch, and that he had met Fletcher infrequently since then.” – Statement from State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie, April 23.

      The Dominion Post” APRIL 2013

      “”Last week he admitted he knew Fletcher from school days – but when quizzed about the appointment said his only role was to accept a recommendation from State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie. .” March 2013

      State Services Commission

      “On 14 June 2011, Prime Minister agreed that the following members sit on the selection panel, as proposed by the Commissioner: Mr (now Sir) Maarten Wevers, Chief Executive of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet; Mr John McKinnon, Chief Executive and Secretary of Defence, Ministry of Defence; and Ms Helene Quilter, Acting Deputy State Services Commissioner (now Secretary of Defence). The Prime Minister was invited to suggest additional members of the panel but declined to do so.”

      “On 6 July 2011, the Commissioner reported to the Prime Minister on the potential short-list of four candidates. The Commissioner advised the Prime Minister that he had concerns whether any of the candidates could undertake the role at the level of performance expected, given the context facing the GCSB. As the Prime Minister has indicated, it was agreed not to proceed further with the consideration of any of these candidates.

      Given the priority of providing GCSB with a permanent director, the focus of discussion between the Prime Minister and Commissioner was on identifying further candidates during the current appointment process. However, if not successful, it was understood that the position would need to be re-advertised in early 2012.

      As the Prime Minister has indicated, following the meeting with the Commissioner he contacted Mr Fletcher to advise him of the vacancy. Mr Wevers then advised the Commissioner of Mr Fletcher’s possible interest in the position.”

      Not a short meeting one suspects. To discuss the existing candidates and the concern they werent up to it. This is the GCSB and the PM forgot this meeting…and that he said he would call Ian Fletcher, cos I assume that is going to be your long bow defence gosman?

    • Tracey 32.4

      so gosman, according to you, campbell was on about when key knew about dotcom and the implicattions thereof, not about key lying about his involvement in the appointment of ian fletcher and this is the long bow you say he drew… based n your comment most recently in the pants on fire thread?

      • srylands 32.4.1

        What have you got against Fletcher? He seems a golden appointment. What exactly are your concerns?

        • Tracey 32.4.1.1

          you seem particularly dense today.

          running about posting the same question and ignoring the answers given.

        • Colonial Viper 32.4.1.2

          What have you got against Fletcher? He seems a golden appointment. What exactly are your concerns?

          Yeah a golden bankster appointment, nothing like pushing your mates – who have no professional background whatsoever in the intelligence services – into plush highly paid roles in the security and surveillance machinery.

          • Tracey 32.4.1.2.1

            slylands refuses to read karols links showing he wasnt such a success in earlier roles.

  31. But conspiracies? Neh never!!!

    • vto 33.1

      I know, classic isn’t it.

      People don’t conspire.
      People don’t lie.
      People don’t cheat.
      People don’t take a shit each day.

      I laugh at anyone these days who comes out with the line “oh, you’re just a conspiracy theorist”….

      fools in the extreme

      • freedom 33.1.1

        Operation Katipo was just a nice day out for the boys, nothing to see here ….move along

        • Wayne 33.1.1.1

          Hmm, where’s the scandal here?

          Just seems like the normal range of meetings, visits and dinners that Ministers and officials have in the course of a year.

          Any Minister in the national security area in either the previous Labour govt or the current govt would have a similar diary.

          • vto 33.1.1.1.1

            Wayne, you are sounding like a Kiwiblogger there …. are you not aware of the questions that have been raised around the appointment of Fletcher? The alleged lies of the PM? The actions of the US government acting within our borders? There are many murky areas and your response above is quite astounding …..

            • Gosman 33.1.1.1.1.1

              Maybe murky, maybe not. However nothing has been presented that suggests this is likely to be murky unless you already think it might be murky in which case the murkiness of it is confirmed in your own mind.

              • vto

                gosman, Key blatantly lied about his meeting and knowledge of Fletcher. That aint murk that is outright dishonesty.

                But keep spinning, you obviously have vested interests.

                • Gosman

                  That is hardly a new allegation and there hasn’t been really any new evidence presented that changes the equation in relation to what has been stated on this previously. Of course you are unlikely to be happy with how this has been dealt with previously but you simply haven’t got anything here that changes the game on that.

                  • Tracey

                    so your failure to contradict the existing evidence (beyond just choosing to ignore it) and your proclamation there’s no new evidence is an argument that key has not lied?

                    If key lies, but it doesnt affect the polls, it doesn’t matter, does that summarise your view Gosman?

                    As for evidence.

                    try this

                    “looks like john campbell is drawing a very long bow on this” Gosman 21 May 2014

                    ‘ HOW KEY’S STORY CHANGED

                    “His appointment was made by the state services commissioner.” – John Key, March 27.

                    “I wouldn’t go that far. I haven’t seen the guy in a long time.” – Key, March 27, when asked if Fletcher was a friend.

                    “There were no more than a handful of interactions, in total, between Key and Fletcher between the mid-2000s and the time of Fletcher’s appointment at the GCSB.” – Key’s April 2 written answer to questions from The Dominion Post, which also confirmed he made the phone call to Fletcher.

                    “I’d forgotten that at that particular time.” – Key on April 3 as to why he had not disclosed the call earlier. He also admitted: “I know his number.”

                    “I genuinely have no clue. I do not know how I got the number.” – Key tells Parliament on April 16.

                    He then followed that with: “I did not, at that point, have Ian Fletcher’s mobile phone number. To the best of my knowledge, I actually rang the directory service to get the Queensland number. I do not actually have his number.”

                    “I have once attended a dinner … at which Fletcher was one of several people present … at the residence of the British High Commissioner on October 3, 2011 … during my time as prime minister I have twice had breakfast with Fletcher before he became director of the GCSB. This happened on March 12, 2010, at the Hyatt Regency in Auckland, and June 17, 2011, at the Stamford in Auckland.” – Key, April 23.

                    “He recalls the prime minister telling him at a meeting in 2009 that he knew Fletcher … the commissioner was discussing his general approach to the recruitment of chief executives. The commissioner’s recollection is that the prime minister advised him that he knew Fletcher from school in Christchurch, and that he had met Fletcher infrequently since then.” – Statement from State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie, April 23.

                    The Dominion Post” APRIL 2013

                    “”Last week he admitted he knew Fletcher from school days – but when quizzed about the appointment said his only role was to accept a recommendation from State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie. .” March 2013

                    State Services Commission

                    “On 14 June 2011, Prime Minister agreed that the following members sit on the selection panel, as proposed by the Commissioner: Mr (now Sir) Maarten Wevers, Chief Executive of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet; Mr John McKinnon, Chief Executive and Secretary of Defence, Ministry of Defence; and Ms Helene Quilter, Acting Deputy State Services Commissioner (now Secretary of Defence). The Prime Minister was invited to suggest additional members of the panel but declined to do so.”

                    “On 6 July 2011, the Commissioner reported to the Prime Minister on the potential short-list of four candidates. The Commissioner advised the Prime Minister that he had concerns whether any of the candidates could undertake the role at the level of performance expected, given the context facing the GCSB. As the Prime Minister has indicated, it was agreed not to proceed further with the consideration of any of these candidates.

                    Given the priority of providing GCSB with a permanent director, the focus of discussion between the Prime Minister and Commissioner was on identifying further candidates during the current appointment process. However, if not successful, it was understood that the position would need to be re-advertised in early 2012.

                    As the Prime Minister has indicated, following the meeting with the Commissioner he contacted Mr Fletcher to advise him of the vacancy. Mr Wevers then advised the Commissioner of Mr Fletcher’s possible interest in the position.”

                    Not a short meeting one suspects. To discuss the existing candidates and the concern they werent up to it. This is the GCSB and the PM forgot this meeting…and that he said he would call Ian Fletcher, cos I assume that is going to be your long bow defence gosman?

              • Tracey

                “looks like john campbell is drawing a very long bow on this” Gosman 21 May 2014

                ‘ HOW KEY’S STORY CHANGED

                “His appointment was made by the state services commissioner.” – John Key, March 27.

                “I wouldn’t go that far. I haven’t seen the guy in a long time.” – Key, March 27, when asked if Fletcher was a friend.

                “There were no more than a handful of interactions, in total, between Key and Fletcher between the mid-2000s and the time of Fletcher’s appointment at the GCSB.” – Key’s April 2 written answer to questions from The Dominion Post, which also confirmed he made the phone call to Fletcher.

                “I’d forgotten that at that particular time.” – Key on April 3 as to why he had not disclosed the call earlier. He also admitted: “I know his number.”

                “I genuinely have no clue. I do not know how I got the number.” – Key tells Parliament on April 16.

                He then followed that with: “I did not, at that point, have Ian Fletcher’s mobile phone number. To the best of my knowledge, I actually rang the directory service to get the Queensland number. I do not actually have his number.”

                “I have once attended a dinner … at which Fletcher was one of several people present … at the residence of the British High Commissioner on October 3, 2011 … during my time as prime minister I have twice had breakfast with Fletcher before he became director of the GCSB. This happened on March 12, 2010, at the Hyatt Regency in Auckland, and June 17, 2011, at the Stamford in Auckland.” – Key, April 23.

                “He recalls the prime minister telling him at a meeting in 2009 that he knew Fletcher … the commissioner was discussing his general approach to the recruitment of chief executives. The commissioner’s recollection is that the prime minister advised him that he knew Fletcher from school in Christchurch, and that he had met Fletcher infrequently since then.” – Statement from State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie, April 23.

                The Dominion Post” APRIL 2013

                “”Last week he admitted he knew Fletcher from school days – but when quizzed about the appointment said his only role was to accept a recommendation from State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie. .” March 2013

                State Services Commission

                “On 14 June 2011, Prime Minister agreed that the following members sit on the selection panel, as proposed by the Commissioner: Mr (now Sir) Maarten Wevers, Chief Executive of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet; Mr John McKinnon, Chief Executive and Secretary of Defence, Ministry of Defence; and Ms Helene Quilter, Acting Deputy State Services Commissioner (now Secretary of Defence). The Prime Minister was invited to suggest additional members of the panel but declined to do so.”

                “On 6 July 2011, the Commissioner reported to the Prime Minister on the potential short-list of four candidates. The Commissioner advised the Prime Minister that he had concerns whether any of the candidates could undertake the role at the level of performance expected, given the context facing the GCSB. As the Prime Minister has indicated, it was agreed not to proceed further with the consideration of any of these candidates.

                Given the priority of providing GCSB with a permanent director, the focus of discussion between the Prime Minister and Commissioner was on identifying further candidates during the current appointment process. However, if not successful, it was understood that the position would need to be re-advertised in early 2012.

                As the Prime Minister has indicated, following the meeting with the Commissioner he contacted Mr Fletcher to advise him of the vacancy. Mr Wevers then advised the Commissioner of Mr Fletcher’s possible interest in the position.”

                Not a short meeting one suspects. To discuss the existing candidates and the concern they werent up to it. This is the GCSB and the PM forgot this meeting…and that he said he would call Ian Fletcher, cos I assume that is going to be your long bow defence gosman?

              • Murky John “the smiling Assassin” Key. Yep, that sounds about right! :lol:

            • Anne 33.1.1.1.1.2

              Wayne is playing blind man’s bluff.

              • freedom

                30 odd posts on the thread are discussing the meetings and associated reasons for them but the comment he replies to, with classic distraction lines about those meetings and associated reasons for them, was a post about Katipo.

                found that a bit odd really

          • freedom 33.1.1.1.2

            According to public statements, Fletcher was neither an employee of the NZ Government, nor a representative of any official delegation representing a foreign power, when he sat at the dining table in the British High Commission’s residence on October 3 2011.

            So what was he doing there?

            Is it not a fair question for New Zealand to be given a fair answer to?

            • dv 33.1.1.1.2.1

              Whats more he was an ‘ordinary person’

              What about his security clearance for that dinner AND

              How did they KNOW he would not blab after ?

          • framu 33.1.1.1.3

            so why did key feel the need to lie wayne?

          • Tracey 33.1.1.1.4

            You are happy that the meetings and chronology all squares off nicely with Mr key’s first ever public statement about when he first communicated with Mr Fletcher?

            “Just seems like the normal range of meetings, visits and dinners that Ministers and officials have in the course of a year.”

            Just like Collins dropping in on the way tot he airport for a cuppa diary meetings and dinners you mean?

          • Tracey 33.1.1.1.5

            “looks like john campbell is drawing a very long bow on this” Gosman 21 May 2014

            ‘ HOW KEY’S STORY CHANGED

            “His appointment was made by the state services commissioner.” – John Key, March 27.

            “I wouldn’t go that far. I haven’t seen the guy in a long time.” – Key, March 27, when asked if Fletcher was a friend.

            “There were no more than a handful of interactions, in total, between Key and Fletcher between the mid-2000s and the time of Fletcher’s appointment at the GCSB.” – Key’s April 2 written answer to questions from The Dominion Post, which also confirmed he made the phone call to Fletcher.

            “I’d forgotten that at that particular time.” – Key on April 3 as to why he had not disclosed the call earlier. He also admitted: “I know his number.”

            “I genuinely have no clue. I do not know how I got the number.” – Key tells Parliament on April 16.

            He then followed that with: “I did not, at that point, have Ian Fletcher’s mobile phone number. To the best of my knowledge, I actually rang the directory service to get the Queensland number. I do not actually have his number.”

            “I have once attended a dinner … at which Fletcher was one of several people present … at the residence of the British High Commissioner on October 3, 2011 … during my time as prime minister I have twice had breakfast with Fletcher before he became director of the GCSB. This happened on March 12, 2010, at the Hyatt Regency in Auckland, and June 17, 2011, at the Stamford in Auckland.” – Key, April 23.

            “He recalls the prime minister telling him at a meeting in 2009 that he knew Fletcher … the commissioner was discussing his general approach to the recruitment of chief executives. The commissioner’s recollection is that the prime minister advised him that he knew Fletcher from school in Christchurch, and that he had met Fletcher infrequently since then.” – Statement from State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie, April 23.

            The Dominion Post” APRIL 2013

            “”Last week he admitted he knew Fletcher from school days – but when quizzed about the appointment said his only role was to accept a recommendation from State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie. .” March 2013

            State Services Commission

            “On 14 June 2011, Prime Minister agreed that the following members sit on the selection panel, as proposed by the Commissioner: Mr (now Sir) Maarten Wevers, Chief Executive of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet; Mr John McKinnon, Chief Executive and Secretary of Defence, Ministry of Defence; and Ms Helene Quilter, Acting Deputy State Services Commissioner (now Secretary of Defence). The Prime Minister was invited to suggest additional members of the panel but declined to do so.”

            “On 6 July 2011, the Commissioner reported to the Prime Minister on the potential short-list of four candidates. The Commissioner advised the Prime Minister that he had concerns whether any of the candidates could undertake the role at the level of performance expected, given the context facing the GCSB. As the Prime Minister has indicated, it was agreed not to proceed further with the consideration of any of these candidates.

            Given the priority of providing GCSB with a permanent director, the focus of discussion between the Prime Minister and Commissioner was on identifying further candidates during the current appointment process. However, if not successful, it was understood that the position would need to be re-advertised in early 2012.

            As the Prime Minister has indicated, following the meeting with the Commissioner he contacted Mr Fletcher to advise him of the vacancy. Mr Wevers then advised the Commissioner of Mr Fletcher’s possible interest in the position.”

            Not a short meeting one suspects. To discuss the existing candidates and the concern they werent up to it. This is the GCSB and the PM forgot this meeting…and that he said he would call Ian Fletcher,

            Were you really forgetful as a Minister too Wayne? Cos I wonder if you should be a Law Commissioner if that’s the case?

          • Puddleglum 33.1.1.1.6

            Wayne, please!

            The point is not that ‘dinners’ are had by Ministers. Of course they are. And why are they ‘had’?

            Presumably, to consider and discuss matters of public or political concern/interest (otherwise it would just be troughing at the public’s expense).

            It is the point and content of the discussions at these dinners/breakfasts/meetings between Key and Fletcher, Key and US officials, etc. that is of import.

            This is like the Judith Collins defence – Ministers support businesses all the time (except, of course, ‘I’ wasn’t supporting this business when I dropped in on them).

            Your point is very disingenuous Wayne. It is not about some superficial resemblance between full diaries.

            Good grief, that was one of your worst counter-arguments yet Wayne.

      • srylands 33.1.2

        People don’t conspire.
        People don’t lie.
        People don’t cheat.

        That is correct, they generally don’t. And in the New Zealand Government, almost never. You are searching for ghosts.

        I can only assume you have never worked in government in New Zealand.

        • veutoviper 33.1.2.1

          Bullshit. And I worked in government in NZ for over 40 years, as did my father before me.

        • Tracey 33.1.2.2

          People don’t conspire.
          People don’t lie.
          People don’t cheat.

          by people do you mean human beings? i only ask for clarification because human beings constantly practice a combination of those things.

          are you pretending to have worked for the nz govt now?

          thanks for the chuckle

  32. fisiani 34

    I thought Winstons’s smoking gun was a wet squib but Campbell’s conspiracy theory spooky tin foil hat breathless voiced waste of time was so pathetic that no sensible media is running with it. Campbell has face palmed .

    • grumpy 34.1

      I read the comments on this topic and feel sad for this country……………

      • Colonial Viper 34.1.1

        NZ is part of the security and surveillance state FVEYE arrangement. Snowden and Manning have helped prove the Tin Foil Hat wearers right. TPTB can and do bug your computer cables, your CPU microcode, your OS and your applications, pick up and store each keystroke you input as you input it, as well as monitor all the networking equipment, servers etc that your mobile phone and PC connects to and whatever you have stored in the “cloud”.

        The NSA philosophy from their own documents is “Collect it all.”

        Although there are many more, Key as Minister and his good mate Fletcher are the NZ public facing representatives of this system.

        • grumpy 34.1.1.1

          It’s all irrelevant, civilisation as we know it is stuffed. All the “liberal” policies, “identity” etc. are stuffed. Enjoy the last few years of even being able to pretend to be left wing…..it’s all coming to an end.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

          If the GCSB, CIA, FBI, SIS, MI5 etc. can give us a few more years we should all rejoice.

          • Colonial Viper 34.1.1.1.1

            Not sure if you are taking the piss? Do you believe in a Muslim birth rate invasion of the west?

          • Puddleglum 34.1.1.1.2

            Hi grumpy,

            You should read Steven Pinker’s ‘Better Angels of Our Nature’.

            While I disagree with various arguments he makes in that book, he does usefully point out that the whole ‘militant Islam’, ‘clash of civilisations’ rhetoric is complete nonsense when tested against the relevant numbers. From Pinker’s analysis it is clear that the ‘civilising process’ is operating on the Muslim world as much if not more so than on the ‘West’.

            Read it and sleep more easily at night.

    • TeWhareWhero 34.2

      So, people should ignore the FACTS and believe your SPIN because …you can string a load of cliches together, you are rightwing, ergo you are right?

      At what point will you concede that there is way more to this than ‘innuendo’ and the fact is Key’s pants are not just on fire, his whole suit is ash. Metaphorically speaking, he’s stark bollock naked – and the fact that the MSM keeps on insisting he’s still wearing a resplendent suit of clothes – made in NZ no less – should tell you who is paying the piper.

    • thatguynz 34.3

      :roll: Still a fucktard – now desperate as well..

  33. Tracey 35

    sorry for reposting the same stuff, but am sick of Wayne, Gosman and others movign the goalposts and ignoring genuine questions/challenges tot heir statements. They ignore such things and move on to repeat their assertions somewhere else (Wayne usually just droops and runs….)

  34. Ashley Smith 36

    Well done Blip. It’s good to see there is finally a small but growing groundswell of right thinking people in NZ who are aware that the PM is not a fit and proper person to have control of a whelks stall let along by Prime Minister.
    His flippant arrogant ways and lack of recollection suggest he may have a neurological disorder.

  35. finbar 37

    The trade craft of the snoopers was not taken care of.They left a questionalble paper trail,not good trade snooper craft leaving evidence around that could incriminate.Not that it seems to worry our cheif spy master,just shrug and dont know,with a suck in of air, his give away body lie that the public seem to like or are ignorant of.

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