Kia Kaha Canterbury

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1. Cinny 1

   16 February 2017 at 8:09 am

   It’s so sad what is happening down there, fires are terrifying, especially on this scale.

   Couldn’t believe what Brownlee said yesterday, already he is playing the blame game, something he is very good at, Something that isn’t going to help anyone at the present time.

   Maybe all he is thinking about are votes, trying not to make himself look like the waste of space he is.

   Those fighting the fires need to be congratulated for putting their lives on the line. It’s hard to control nature Gerry, maybe you should blame nature instead of the brave hero’s fighting the fires.
   • Sabine 1.1

     16 February 2017 at 3:55 pm

     well nothing so easy as to blame those that are volunteers.

     the waitakere voluntary brigade is currently fighting in hastings.

     but hey, they don’t get paid, so that must make it very easy to put blame on them? or something.

     yes, many of those that are fighting these fires are not full time paid firefighters.
2. marty mars 2

   16 February 2017 at 9:28 am

   Yep the new normal is terrifying and it is the first part of the slippery slope. Make personal changes now cos time has run out and everything adjusted now will make big differences in the near future.
3. Stuff The Politicians 3

   16 February 2017 at 9:33 am

   I am sure there will be many in Ch-Ch who will tell Gerry to go and, Get F–d.

   He is just another bombastic fool.
4. saveNZ 4

   16 February 2017 at 10:03 am

   The wildfires are probably Labour’s fault. sarc.

   The drought situation has to be addressed and unlikely by this government who think that holding all the water to be irrigated will be a long term situation. Instead it will make everything worse as more un suitable farms are in areas that should be converted into something more drought resistant – and more cows etc are going to pollute the groundwater more.

   So privatise the water at taxpayers expense for a small group of people and don’t worry about polluting it more. i.e. waster resources. is Natz answer.

   God knows what their answer is to the wildfires, run down and privatise civil defence to make it more efficient like the US style Hurricane Katrina???

   We have seen what the Natz answer to homeless crisis is, leave state houses empty and put the people in hotels at taxpayers expense at $1000 a week, with loans that put people into more debt and actually stop homeless people entering WINZ to get their entitlements with security guards at the door.

   And their war on P, which seems to have fizzled out with the lack of MAF and security at the borders.

   And the new CYF ideas of some sort of Aboriginal style baby snatching to put with different cultures, rather than firing the dead wood in CYF (many should have resigned with the constant scandals of mismanagement of kids), adding more and better social workers and treating them better so they can do their job, and actually ensuring through legislation that Kiwi families have enough to live on and enough mental/drug/alcohol/family violence rehabilitation treatment centres.

   NZ government can give money to Scenic hotels, the Clinton fund, Saudi Business men, US and UK embassy real estate, now even the councils are getting in on the act with rate payer money to Singapore Airlines and Westfield development malls, but sadly there is no money left over for anyone genuinely in need, basic services or to prevent imminent disasters and issues to Kiwis.

   What a government!
5. mauī 5

   16 February 2017 at 10:16 am

   Good post. The thing that worries me is that we have major wildfires that people have never seen the likes of, 40 deg heatwaves in Sydney and major (dam) infrastructure at the point of failure, and there’s no link made to climate change in the media. Our cultural state of denial is deep rooted.
   • Bill 5.1

     16 February 2017 at 10:18 am

     – snap – 😉
   • marty mars 5.2

     16 February 2017 at 10:26 am

     + 1
6. Bill 6

   16 February 2017 at 10:16 am

   Rachel Stewart gets it. That call for a mass mobilisation, as in being on a war footing, has been made by others and it’s good to hear it echoed yet again.

   My fear is that we’re too sunk in the ‘I’m all right Jack’ bullshit. So Australia melted and it was cold here. The Port Hills are ablaze, but it was hailstones and rain here.

   And I (not ‘me’, but you know what I mean) experience hailstones and rain and fail to connect that to the Port Hills or whatever because my experience is local and my understanding of CC is simply that shit heats up….but it’s only happening ‘over there’ or ‘down there’ and not here…. and just for a short time anyway.

   Oh look! Tomatoes are on special again – whoop!
   • marty mars 6.1

     16 February 2017 at 10:24 am

     + 1
     Yep the frog doesn’t know the water is killing it until a few seconds before it dies – luckily we are standy up apes and not fucken frogs – you’d hope…
     • Bill 6.1.1

       16 February 2017 at 11:30 am

       And the standy up apes that we are, we gleefully run and/or jump from frying pans to fires? The trick I think we’re trying to pull is based on the notion that if we just keep moving fast enough, we won’t get burned.
       • marty mars 6.1.1.1

         16 February 2017 at 11:38 am

         Ha! Very true.
       • jcuknz 6.1.1.2

         16 February 2017 at 2:47 pm

         Well that I gather is the theory about fire walking Bill
7. Chch_chiquita 7

   16 February 2017 at 10:42 am

   I so wish the cloud that is hanging above us at the moment was a rain cloud and not the smoke coming from Port Hills 🙁

   My husband said this morning it is not nice to hand back the rental we live in at the moment with dry grass. I told him we will not water it as there is water shortage and I have no intention of wasting water for something that we shouldn’t have here in Christchurch, or at least not at the scale we have. Very happy with our decision to move into a town house with minimal garden.

   On our summer holiday, driving through the Mackenzie basin towards Wanaka, dry as land being irrigated for…. yes, you guessed correctly – dairy farming. All I could think of was – how stupid is that?!?
8. dukeofurl 8

   16 February 2017 at 10:44 am

   Changing climate has been an ongoing issue

   28.12.1872: bush fires around Dunedin.
   9.1.1879: Carterton surrounded by a bush fire, and almost destroyed.
   2.4.1881: huge bush fire from Wellington to Makara coast.
   22.12.1882: big bush fire between Fielding and Bunnythorpe, in the Manawatu.
   1885- 86 Season: extensive fires throughout the whole country. The Taranaki town of Stratford was almost obliterated.
   22.2.1887: wind-driven fires in Wellington, Wairarapa, Seventy Mile Bush and Manawatu. Palmerston North was in extreme danger..
   1887- 88 Season: the village of Norsewood is destroyed by fire.
   7.3.1889: Port Hills and Oxford burning in Canterbury
   27.12.1890: Canterbury was beset with bush fires.
   January,1897: Drought prevailed in many parts of the country. There were several large bush fires around Whangamata and on the Coromandel Peninsula. Central Taranaki and Canterbury were again under threat, particularly around Oxford and up the Waimakariri. Fires were burning even in the swamp lands around Hamilton. However, it was the Wairarapa that got hit the hardest, with houses and other property being destroyed.
   1897- 98 Season: many large fires, mostly in central NZ, with the township of Pahiatua severely damaged.
   http://www.ruralfirehistory.org.nz/2nd.htm .
   • adam 8.1

     16 February 2017 at 12:02 pm

     Put it in some historical context duleofurl. Don’t miss out the great events that were happening to the land at the time. Our great Deforestation for farm land was happening. And if you look at the newspapers at the time, they realised this played a part, unlike you who seems in a world of denial.
     • mauī 8.1.1

       16 February 2017 at 12:24 pm

       +1, I was going to say similar. They were actively using fires back then where the opposite is true now.
       • dukeofurl 8.1.1.1

         16 February 2017 at 12:29 pm

         Why do fires spread in February?
     • dukeofurl 8.1.2

       16 February 2017 at 12:28 pm

       You mean the context like Lincoln, Canterburys annual mean temperature 100 years ago was 11.12 and in 2015 it was 12.14

       being more rigourous and using a longer period
       The 1981-2010 average at this location is 11.69C
       the 1909-1929 is 11.09
       ie 0.5C in nearly 100 years
       Climate change seems to have by passed the rural region just out of Christchurch.
       Im not denying climate change is happening just not much here. .

       http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/climate/information-and-resources/nz-temp-record/seven-station-series-temperature-data
       • weka 8.1.2.1

         16 February 2017 at 1:18 pm

         That’s not climate. That’s measurements of temperature over time. Climate is what the weather does over time, and more importantly for us, how that interrelates with human activity and other natural cycles.

         “Im not denying climate change is happening just not much here. .”

         That doesn’t make sense. Climate Change is happening to the whole planet. How could climate not be affected by it?
         • Robert Guyton 8.1.2.1.1

           16 February 2017 at 2:17 pm

           “That doesn’t make sense. Climate Change is happening to the whole planet. How could climate not be affected by it?”

           QFT
         • dukeofurl 8.1.2.1.2

           16 February 2017 at 6:39 pm

           Looking at NIWA’s rainfall anomaly in the Canterbury area over last 60 days.

           http://www.niwa.co.nz/static/climate/last60daysspi.png?1234

           fancy that , its ‘near normal’

           West Coast is extremely wet or very wet.
           • weka 8.1.2.1.2.1

             16 February 2017 at 7:03 pm

             If you have a point why don’t you make it?
             • dukeofurl …

               17 February 2017 at 10:12 am

               “it is pretty well inevitable that climate change caused or contributed to the fire.” As Ms said.
               This seems to be incorrect.
               Thats not to say it is the case for other events.
               • weka …

                 17 February 2017 at 10:35 am

                 We’re well past the point of being able to say local climate isn’t affected by CC. It’s all connected now. I’ve addressed the shortcomings in your analysis in r0b’s thread.

                 https://thestandard.org.nz/fires-are-the-new-normal/#comment-1300335
     • inspider 8.1.3

       16 February 2017 at 5:07 pm

       Canterbury was largely deforested before European settlers arrived. Maori burnt the trees off (must have been wild hangis)
9. greywarshark 9

   16 February 2017 at 3:13 pm

   The committed and trained people in the Fire Service are regularly needed and sometimes heroes. The government is trying to milk their commitment to the public good, especially worthy of commendation are the volunteers. The government in the name of efficiency, is shifting more tasks to their shoulders, being used as first on the spot medical treatment and taking the roles that police should be present to fill.
   The public need to protect our ambulance people and fire service also as the trend to see physical workers as just people to be exploited by the bums on seats with degrees and suits.

   And I understand that Fire Service personnel are poorly paid, $60000 to $70000 salary for leading positions.

   We have to watch over government very vigilant as they seek to demolish and diminish our key people that the public needs. It is strange that our PM ended up with the surname key, which sounds like an opening for all, instead he was the opposite.
10. inspider 10

    16 February 2017 at 4:36 pm

    Of course it’s climate change. Nor’westers, summer and scrub fires were unheard of in Canterbury before this one.
11. Skeptic 11

    16 February 2017 at 4:39 pm

    As a long time Chch resident – over 60 years- I can remember summers in the 50s & 60s when there would be regular burn-offs of tussock – most controlled, but quite a few not – but this was when sheep grazing was the normal use for the Hills. Gorse was burnt off quite a bit as well. The problem seems to be that pines and houses have been planted where once there was paddocks. Tinder dry conditions and accidents/mishaps do tend to happen during strong NW conditions. It was inevitable that something like this was going to happen. A word of warning for Port Hills dwellers – when I was 7, our science teacher, who was a geologist, reminded us that the Port Hills comprise largely of loess – a wind blown loose soil that is very light and packs down to form a clay like substance – over igneous rock. This a very poor substance on which to build, because when exposed (as it is now following the fires) and becomes wet – like during the next rainfall – loess has the consistency and attributes of porridge. It tends to flow downhill at a great rate of knots – especially when laying over igneous rock. So unless any building is anchored to bedrock, it too will flow downhill at a great rate of knots. I wonder if the building codes are up to scratch? I also wonder how many Port Hills buildings are future deathtraps?
    • weka 11.1

      16 February 2017 at 8:41 pm

      Not surprising the way things have been going for Chch 🙁
12. greywarshark 12

    16 February 2017 at 5:52 pm

    Radio report of how some police are handling the situation of getting people out of the fire zone. Given a few minutes to leave, the male partner took one of his three vehicles down the road for a friend to come and pick up. The police refused his friend to come up and refused the man access back to his home to get his partner still there and he didn’t have a way of communicating with her. He was threatened hy the police with handcuffs as he argued.

    It reminds me of the intransigence of police control during the earthquake, and also of the way they controlled Pike River mine, refusing to enter it themselves, and barring miners from putting forward a reasonable plan to enter with safeguards.

    It is time that police had different training so that they work with citizens. At present they are just heavyweights who enforce the law, without real interaction. It is time that they were stripped of their autonomy and had to inform people about situations not just order them around. Much of their behaviour alienates them from their fellow citizens.
    The voters should be able to decide more about their systems and ethics and practices.
13. the pigman 13

    17 February 2017 at 12:48 am

    “We need to wise up to the fact that continuing to compartmentalise our endless individual battles – pay equity, dirty dairying, transport, roading, autism funding, education, intersectional feminism, partisan politics – is a waste of precious energy.”

    If Rachel Stewart were a man and deigned to suggest that people’s niche/special interests fights were less important than the flaming inferno in the room, I know a few of the commenters here would be calling for him to be thrown into that very flaming inferno.
    • weka 13.1

      17 February 2017 at 12:57 am

      I’m not sure it’s gender that’s the qualifier so much as gender politics. If by ‘man’ you mean man who doesn’t like identity politics and wants all the other people to shut up then yeah, of course.
14. Paul Campbell 14

    19 February 2017 at 3:11 pm

    I lived in Berkeley and Oakland (across from San Francisco) for 20 years, we lived thru the Oakland Hills fire (1000 homes) and the Loma Prieta earthquake (the one that brought the bridge and freeways down) – it seemed like one disaster after another, like it would never stop.

    I understand how Christchurch must feel like right now – it will end

Links to post

1. Christchurch fire coverage « The Standard: posted on 16 February 2017 at 8:09 am

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