National literally want to hide the costs of inaction on climate change

Written By: - Date published: 6:45 am, May 20th, 2015 - 134 comments
Categories: climate change, global warming, national, treasury - Tags: , , , ,

The Nats are currently “consulting” we the people on NZ’s carbon emissions target. As covered yesterday, the consultation document is largely a vehicle for Nat spin and evasion, focusing on the costs of action to reduce our emissions. The costs of inaction are ignored. But we have Treasury estimates of the costs:

Failure to cut emissions could cost $34,000 per household

Treasury figures, released by the Sustainability Council today, show failing to take action to cut greenhouse gas emissions will cost between $2,000 and $34,000 per household, the Green Party said.

The Sustainability Council has obtained figures previously redacted from a Treasury climate briefing which shows that the cost of failing to take action to cut New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions is between $3 billion and $52 billion from 2021 to 2030. The Treasury report identifies the cost of buying credits to cover a target of a 5 percent reduction below 1990 levels for the 2021-2030 period at a price of between $10 and $165 a tonne.

The costs of doing nothing are phenomenal. The topic of many past and future posts here to be sure.

But in this post I want to focus on that phrase “previously redacted”. The redacted Treasury report is here. The Sustainability Council got the figures because they got access to a different version of the report:

Simon Terry of the Sustainability Council, who obtained a copy of the Treasury document with the figures, hoped the massive price tag would frighten the Government into action now.

So where did the different version of the report come from? Yesterday in Parliament:

Hon TIM GROSER (Minister for Climate Change Issues): The range of figures contained in the redacted part of that now rather dated document was between 0.3 and 0.8 percent of GDP …

Dr Russel Norman : In light of that answer, what exactly did Treasury get wrong when it said in this paper that the cost to the Government of not cutting our greenhouse gas emissions was up to $52 billion—as Treasury said in this paper?

Hon TIM GROSER : I think what Treasury got wrong was that it did not use sufficiently sophisticated software to conceal the redacted information.

What? So we the people only learned of Treasury projections on the costs of inaction on climate change because someone screwed up a redacted document! We were never meant to know. And National’s Minister for Climate Change Issues statement on the matter is that Treasury should have done a better job of hiding this vital information from the public.

National are running a public “consultation” process where they intended to hide the most important half of the story. We have become so used to scandals that this one will probably be lost in the noise. But it is huge. What the actual hell?

134 comments on “National literally want to hide the costs of inaction on climate change ”

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  1. mickysavage 1
    20 May 2015 at 7:08 am

    I am almost lost for words. The Government wants to consult with us what we should be doing about climate change but wanted to hide the cost of business as usual?

  2. One Anonymous Bloke 2
    20 May 2015 at 8:31 am

    The National Party would not survive judicial review.

    • Sans Cle 2.1
      20 May 2015 at 10:38 am

      Dame Beverely Wakeham was on Kathryn Ryan this morning, talking about abuse of the OIA. Russell Norman asked a factual question as to why Treasury either made a mistake or changed its calculations. Tim Groser gave a facile answer, and did not answer the question. Is this questioning in Parliament subject to the OIA, and if so, can we take this to the Ombudsman?

      • Gosman 2.1.1
        20 May 2015 at 10:47 am

        I doubt very much you can take what is said in Parliament to any external body separate from Parliament. In fact to do so would be not be a good thing. The point of Parliament is that it should not have to answer to any other authority except itself. The means of holding it account outside this is via elections.

        • Tracey 2.1.1.1
          21 May 2015 at 8:25 am

          The Executive can also be held to account through Judicial Review in the Courts.

          • Gosman 2.1.1.1.1
            21 May 2015 at 8:40 am

            The Executive can be subject to judicial oversight but not Parliament. If Courts had jurisdiction over Parliament that would likely lead to a situation where politicians were restricted in what they could or would say in the House.

            • Tracey 2.1.1.1.1.1
              21 May 2015 at 8:45 am

              hence I wrote “also> It’s not “can be subject” but “is subject”.

              please don’t feel you have to answer part of my questions first Gosman, there are heaps to you here from yesterday that people asked and you haven’t answered yet.

      • Tracey 2.1.2
        21 May 2015 at 8:24 am

        She was very soft in her suggestion of why there is a problem and why it’s taken so long and what the answer is.

  3. Rosie 3
    20 May 2015 at 8:44 am

    The shame of it, the deceit – it’s just too painful. When will we ever be delivered from such arrogant fools?

    Questions about Tim Groser. Did I hear correctly, some where, some time ago that he is actually a climate change denier, or at the very least, not entirely convinced that climate change is real and in full swing? Has Tim Groser had, in the past any sympathies with lobbyist (steel and concrete industries, agriculture) referred to in the Hot Air doco?

    Finally, on the note of the sham public consultations, James Barber of Oil Free Wellington stated

    “As if to illustrate the government’s contempt for this consultation process, the Minister of Energy and Associate Minister for Climate Change Issues, Simon Bridges, was in Australia yesterday, promoting New Zealand as an exploration destination for oil companies.”

    http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=78454

    Between Bridges and Groser what hope do we have?

  4. Gosman 4
    20 May 2015 at 8:59 am

    Even if the figures are correct (which I very much doubt the 52 Billion dollar figure) this cost is because the Government has signed up to deals attempting to tackle Climate Change. The US for example won’t have any such liability as it is outside the system. Therefore it is incorrect to state the inaction on climate change is costing this figure when in fact it is the desire to do something about Climate Change that is costing this amount.

    • Lanthanide 4.1
      20 May 2015 at 9:08 am

      Sophistry, really.

      These figures are for purchasing carbon credits, which in terms of “doing something about climate change” is at the very low end of action, especially when it appears a lot of carbon credits being traded internationally are pure fabrications.

      The cost if we don’t do anything about climate change is hard to measure, because it depends on your long-term weather forecasts – the costs of droughts, floods and extreme storms.

      We just had a “1 in 100 year” weather event in the Wellington region. How much did that cost the country in direct damage, as well as lost productivity from people who couldn’t get to work?

      We’ve just had two summers of bad droughts, how much did that cost the country in lost productivity?

      • dukeofurl 4.1.1
        20 May 2015 at 10:58 am

        Where did some one say the weather event was ‘1 in 100 years’

        The rainfall records available now seem to indicate about the 2% probability in any year or ‘1 in 50 years’

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1505/S00417/yesterdays-rainfall-by-the-numbers.htm

        “On the Kapiti Coast, MacKay’s Crossing received a total of 145mm over 24 hours – the equivalent of a 1-in-40 year event at this location.”

        ‘“In the Hutt Valley, 42mm of rain was recorded in Avalon in just one-hour – that’s estimated to be in excess of a 1-in-50 year event.”

        You have to be careful picking out one weather event and calling it climate. The summer period just ended was lower rainfall than average in the Wellington region

    • Rosie 4.2
      20 May 2015 at 9:16 am

      So how you do reckon on this

      “In the next year, New Zealand would have to announce its target for the 2020 to 2030 decade. The Treasury has said if the Government tried to use the same tactic of simply buying carbon credits to offset our rising pollution, this time the price tag would be in the billions – anywhere between $3 billion and $52b.”

      when we are apparently “tackling” climate change? The above quote is from the link in Anthony’s Robins’ post. So, to recap, we are not doing anything, we are simply planning on buying carbon credits – the cost to us of the Government’s inaction on climate change.

      • Gosman 4.2.1
        20 May 2015 at 9:43 am

        The whole point of Carbon Credits is to enable nations to try and identify costs and benefits from Climate change mitigating strategies and to drive countries to come up with new innovations to reduce emissions. I do have a question for you though. If it is projected to cost 53 Billion dollars in total spend and lost economic growth to implement Climate change mitigating policies over the same period it will cost 52 Billion if we didn’t do anything about it would you still advocate that we adopt those policies?

        • Rosie 4.2.1.1
          20 May 2015 at 10:08 am

          Except they’re not really working out are they? Carbon credits are simply a capitalistic approach that allow polluters to continue polluting – there are no solutions in such a system – it’s the monetary equivalent of committing a crime and being let off for it, we simply pay to commit the crime.

          In answer to your question: I don’t care what it costs in the short term to introduce legislation to meaningfully arrest our increasing carbon emissions – the price of not doing anything is far too high.

          As Lanthanide has pointed out there is a cost we face with the consequences of living with severe weather due to climate change.
          For example, (as pointed out) the rain storm that Kapiti Coast, Porirua, the Hutt and to a lesser degree Wellington experienced last week. The year long drought in Cheviot that has forced farmers to cull their stock or send them off for grazing elsewhere. The tornado that damaged commercial buildings and houses in Mt Mauganui last week. The southerly storm that brought down sea walls and tore houses apart in Wellington in June 2013. The tornado in Auckland that killed a man a few years ago. The drought we had in the lower north Island this summer.

          The list goes on. There are economic consequences from such events.

          Don’t expect a discount on your insurance premiums any time soon.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1.1
            20 May 2015 at 10:16 am

            it’s the monetary equivalent of committing a crime and being let off for it
            Actually, it’s probably more accurate to say committing a crime and being rewarded for it.

            Six years later that vision is looking a little clouded. With the EU ETS accused of failing to reduce carbon emissions, countries outside Europe delaying companion cap-and-trade systems, and critics charging that the carbon-trading mechanism has opened the door to fraud, profiteering, and “gaming” by participants, serious questions have arisen about the future of the EU’s grand emissions plan.

            • Rosie 4.2.1.1.1.1
              20 May 2015 at 11:30 am

              Good article thanks Drax. Here’s a little nugget for Gosman re carbon credits and the dubious notion that “The whole point of Carbon Credits is to enable nations to try and identify costs and benefits from Climate change mitigating strategies and to drive countries to come up with new innovations to reduce emissions.”

              “Gwyn Prins, a professor at the London School of Economics, says the idea of raising the cost of carbon as a way of stimulating development of cleaner technologies is wrongheaded for two reasons. One, there is no guarantee higher prices will lead to the required innovations. And, two, voters, and therefore politicians, are likely to resist measures that increase energy prices.”

              • Gosman …
                20 May 2015 at 11:39 am

                Yes but any method of trying to change to cleaner sources of energy on a rapid basis is likely to lead to higher energy prices. Can you name me one that doesn’t?

                • Rosie …
                  20 May 2015 at 11:47 am

                  Not being an energy industry insider, a scientist or energy analyst I can’t tell what low cost ways we change to cleaner energy. Subsidies for those building energy efficient homes might be a very basic start, along with free public transport.
                  What I know is that I make an effort in my personal life to reduce the impact of my carbon footprint and keep it to a minimum, so in a fair world shouldn’t have to cover the costs for the polluting created by industry and agriculture.

          • Gosman 4.2.1.1.2
            20 May 2015 at 10:31 am

            I agree to a certain extent. They are the modern day equivalent of Medieval Indulgances paid to the Catholic Church. I’d prefer a Carbon tax myself that was tied to a reduction in other taxes.

            The issue is correctly pricing the cost of the externalities. Many of the events you mention (droughts and floods etc) have occured long before Human’s were even existed on the Planet. Simpy by calculati ng the cost of every one of these events will not give you an accurate estimation of costs.

            • Rosie 4.2.1.1.2.1
              20 May 2015 at 11:39 am

              Groan. Not the old “we’ve always had severe weather events”. Has the fact that they are more severe and more frequent and that we created that scenario not account for anything in your view?
              Would you prefer we do nothing about addressing climate change? Is that what it comes down to for you? From your comments below you seem quite happy with an adapt or die approach.

              It will be kinda hard to adapt to no rain (as we’ve already seen around the world) and no crops to grow, or floods wiping out those crops. No food, no life. So death it is.

              Have you thought about where your food comes from, apart from the supermarket that is?

              • Gosman …
                20 May 2015 at 11:41 am

                Ummm… I just stated I was in favour of a Carbon Tax so I’m not sure why you think I am in favour of doing precisely nothing about this topic beyond adapting to the changes as they happen (which will still need to be done no matter what option is adopted).

                • Rosie …
                  20 May 2015 at 11:50 am

                  A carbon tax IS the equivalent of doing nothing.

                  I’m bored now and am reminded of why I don’t interact with RWers on line. I have enough of your type to deal with IRL.

                  Over and out.

                  • Gosman …
                    20 May 2015 at 11:55 am

                    How’s efforts to get wider action on tackling the impacts of climate change going for you?

                    • Maui …
                      20 May 2015 at 12:57 pm

                      Pretty good when you think most of the world is invested in fossil fuels and you look at the state of the coal industry right now.

                    • Gosman …
                      21 May 2015 at 8:35 am

                      The coal industry is depressed because of all the Shale Gas production from Fracking.

                    • Tracey …
                      21 May 2015 at 8:41 am

                      OR is depressed because of that and the alleged practice by LARGE producers to drop prices to send smaller ones to the wall….

                    • Gosman …
                      21 May 2015 at 8:49 am

                      Quite possibly correct. What is clear is it isn’t a result of protest movements by climate change activists.

            • Macro 4.2.1.1.2.2
              20 May 2015 at 7:00 pm

              . I’d prefer a Carbon tax myself that was tied to a reduction in other taxes.

              That is exactly what was proposed by Clark and supported by the Green’s initially in 2003 – but the Arden and his idiots drove a tractor up the steps of Parliament and Clark lost her nerve.
              It is exactly what the Green’s campaigned on in the last election.

              • Gosman …
                21 May 2015 at 4:17 am

                Yes it was a good policy. Your point?

                • Macro …
                  21 May 2015 at 9:02 am

                  mM point is that it is still Green policy. It is the policy employed in British Columbia – resulting in a number of distinct benefits to the people of that province.

                  • Gosman …
                    21 May 2015 at 9:05 am

                    And? What is your point beyond that The Greens have a policy that I agree with?

        • Jonty 4.2.1.2
          20 May 2015 at 10:10 am

          An absurd comparison. The true cost will indescribable … unable to be measured in financial cost … through financial collapse, social breakdown, and the consequent dystopia that would follow.

          • Sabine 4.2.1.2.1
            20 May 2015 at 10:30 am

            But Gosman and the other blue shirts and their overlords won’t be living in these times.

            Or at least they will hope to not live in these times.

            This is what gets me about this whole discussion, man made or natural cycle of global warming, global cooling or weather weirding. Do they have enough money and resources to be insulated from the misery that will be ours once we run out of potable water, once we run out of food, once we or others run out of land (do to sea level rising).
            Do they really believe they are so well off, and so far removed from society that they will not suffer.

            • Gosman 4.2.1.2.1.1
              20 May 2015 at 10:37 am

              I do find these views rather funny. It is the Secular Leftist version of Religious fundamentalists saying we are living in the end times of the Bible. That is not to discount there is a real protential for massive social dislocation if the impact of Climate change is larger than expected over the next 80 or so years. However there has been greater social dislocation in the past that mankind has adapted quite well to.

              • The Murphey …
                20 May 2015 at 11:48 am

                “Not buying carbon credits = doing precisely nothing …”

                Your words Gosman

                Just stop already

              • Sabine …
                20 May 2015 at 11:54 am

                so Gosman, please tell us how are we adapting?

                We are still using fossil fuels.
                We are still driving our individual cars all by our lonesome selfs to work and back home.
                We are still living in crappy houses that are not insulated and cost a heck a lot of energy to keep either warm or cold depending the season.
                We grow cows, together with all the other nations, for one country alone, that is soon to also grow cows. Sustainable?
                We pollute our drink water sources – fracking anyone?
                We building motorways and train trecks next to a bit of beach….wellington anyone?
                We are building motorways next to a bit of magrove ….auckland anyone?
                We are building houses close to beaches….how is insurance going to handle any damages there?

                We, society, could manage to adapt to what ever change is coming our way, but alas we have world governments that refuse to do anything other then what gets them money from the oil lobby, the coal lobby, the crab food lobby, and so on.

                So Gosman, please one example where we are adapting so that you believe you and yours will be fine in about 25 years.

              • William …
                20 May 2015 at 12:33 pm

                “However there has been greater social dislocation in the past that mankind has adapted quite well to.”

                Could you please give some examples of the dislocation you have in mind here.

                • Gosman …
                  21 May 2015 at 8:52 am

                  Mao Great leap forward, WWII, WWI, Taipeng Rebellion, The Seven Years War, The Black Death, The Little Ice age, Various volcanic erruptions causing massive disruptions to the world’s weather in a very short period of time.

                  • William …
                    21 May 2015 at 2:42 pm

                    Most of those didn’t affect “mankind”, they only affected localised populations. In the case of conventional wars, once the war ended a recovery occurred, there was no continuing change to the environment or ecosystem.
                    The Black Death was self limiting as resistance in the population became dominant, and to describe the resulting social effects as being an example of adapting quite well says a lot about your world view.
                    There’s debate about how global and extensive the LIA was. The cooling anomaly during that period was significantly less than the warming that we have already seen from AGW, and occurred over a much longer period.
                    During human history volcanic eruptions have only caused short term global climate disruptions. We haven’t adapted, a few years later we’ve resumed where we were.

                    Compare the above with what we know will result from our CO2 emissions. Several degrees warming that will continue for hundreds of years, not just affecting humans but all ecosystems.

                    Considering your dismissal of concern about the effects of AGW I think your end times barb would be better corrected to;

                    “It is the Deniers version of Religious fundamentalists saying we have dominion over all the natural world.”

          • Gosman 4.2.1.2.2
            20 May 2015 at 10:33 am

            Try and push that and see where it gets you in the wider public.

            • r0b 4.2.1.2.2.1
              20 May 2015 at 11:51 am

              If the wider public were well informed then the issue would “push” itself. Which is why the Nats want to make sure we are not well informed, as per the post. You are arguing from and for ignorance.

              • Gosman …
                20 May 2015 at 11:59 am

                If only people were as clever as you eh Rob. Then they would all support the policies you do. Must be hard living in a world where most voters are not as intelligent as you would like them to be.

                • r0b …
                  20 May 2015 at 12:04 pm

                  What a snob you are Gossman. There is a difference between unintelligent and kept in the dark.

                  • The lost sheep …
                    21 May 2015 at 8:45 am

                    How are all the ‘uninformed’ prevented from accessing the same information you can rOb?

                    • felix …
                      21 May 2015 at 11:26 am

                      In part by the concerted efforts of you and your horrible kind.

                    • RealBlue …
                      21 May 2015 at 12:25 pm

                      “In part by the concerted efforts of you and your horrible kind.”

                      What? Cant they read, use a computer?

                    • The lost sheep …
                      21 May 2015 at 3:14 pm

                      If you want to jump in on the question I asked of Rob Felix, at least you could attempt to answer it instead of that silly bullshit.

                      Tell me how it is that some people are being denied access to any information that Rob or anyone else is able to access?

                • Tracey …
                  21 May 2015 at 8:42 am

                  Says the guy who dislikes many of National’s major policies so votes for ACT to allow National to govern.

        • Tracey 4.2.1.3
          21 May 2015 at 8:28 am

          Carbon Credits was an attempt to use the market system to get the greedy polluters to see a personal financial benefit to themselves to not pollute or mitigate. It has failed, mainly because the polluters used their money to lobby for watering down, and found polluting was cheaper.

    • Tracey 4.3
      21 May 2015 at 8:26 am

      ” I very much doubt the 52 Billion dollar figure”

      Do you have a consistent doubt of all figures that come out of Treasury? If yes, that must rouse you to action to have Treasury disbanded. If no, why not?

      How do you decide which Treasury figures can be relied upon?

      • Gosman 4.3.1
        21 May 2015 at 8:33 am

        Not all figures but I suspect Treasury was asked to give a costing and they decided to give a broad range of figures including the 52 Billion as a very much worse case scenario (as in it might only have a 1% chance of occuring but they put it in to cover their backsides)..

        • Tracey 4.3.1.1
          21 May 2015 at 8:44 am

          you “suspect”

          “not all figures”

          were the follow up questions too hard? There are heaps of questions from folks yesterday to you that you need to work through, if you are minded.

  5. Draco T Bastard 5
    20 May 2015 at 9:31 am

    When people don’t have the full information or have incorrect information they make the wrong decisions. National have just been shown to be purposefully hiding necessary information from the people of NZ ensuring that the people of NZ would then make a wrong decision. A decision I can only suppose that they hoped would allow National to make legislation in favour of National’s business associates rather than for the benefit of New Zealand.

    • weka 5.1
      20 May 2015 at 11:16 am

      It fits pretty neatly with their anti-democractic principles and actions of recent years. Time to wake up sleep hobbits.

  6. Colonial Viper 6
    20 May 2015 at 10:25 am

    All NZ political parties are continuing to push economic growth, greater personal spending and increased consumption as the way ahead.

    Which tells me that none of them accept, or can admit to, the painful physical realities we have set up for today’s school children to face in the next 30 or 40 years. Pretend and extend is alive and well in NZ politics, on all sides.

    • Sans Cle 6.1
      20 May 2015 at 10:33 am

      The Greens are trying to forge a future for all humanity, realising that sacrafices have to be made in terms of consumption levels, that the economy needs to be radically different, but trying to do that in a politically expedient way.

      • Gosman 6.1.1
        20 May 2015 at 10:39 am

        No they aren’t. There is nothing in The Greens policies that suggest what you state. They keep banging on about Green Growth and how we can have better lives and higher economic growth if we adopt their policy platform. There is no mention of sacrificing for the future of the Planet.

        • Lanthanide 6.1.1.1
          20 May 2015 at 10:43 am

          That’s because the unpleasant truth won’t result in them being elected.

          The Green’s platform of green growth will set the country up to face the future much better than BAU will.

        • Sans Cle 6.1.1.2
          20 May 2015 at 10:52 am

          Gosman, your propaganda is tiresome, and really rather sickening. You are myopic and trying to argue against the whole body of scientific literature about climate change. Please do not respond to something like ‘prove it’ as I direct you to numerous posts on this blog, or even you could venture to the IPCC and become informed yourself. You could also take a look at what NIWA is saying about the implications of climate change on NZ. I am sick to the teeth of climate change deniers……and sick to the teeth of those like you who say well we will adapt, or it’s not in our lifetime, so who cares.

          • Gosman 6.1.1.2.1
            20 May 2015 at 11:07 am

            Noone’s mentioned anything about the scientific literature about climate change here including me. Nice little Strawman you have constructed though.

            • Sans Cle 6.1.1.2.1.1
              20 May 2015 at 11:26 am

              Gosman, you stated:
              “I do find these views rather funny. It is the Secular Leftist version of Religious fundamentalists saying we are living in the end times of the Bible.”

              where you are directly equating the climate change argument with a belief set (or Christian religious fundamentalism).
              I am pointing out that it is not a belief set, it is accepted scientific consensus. And, with due respect I do not want to engage further with you on this matter.

              • Gosman …
                20 May 2015 at 11:36 am

                No, the view expressed that we are all going to die in some firery inferno caused by mad made climate change is the equivalent of Religious fundamentalists stating we are living in the end times predicted by the Bible. This is not even proposed as a worse case scenario in the IPCC reports. However if you can point to a firery inferno reference in one of them (or even people running out of land) I will stand corrected.

        • weka 6.1.1.3
          20 May 2015 at 11:21 am

          No they aren’t. There is nothing in The Greens policies that suggest what you state. They keep banging on about Green Growth and how we can have better lives and higher economic growth if we adopt their policy platform. There is no mention of sacrificing for the future of the Planet.

          Stop telling lies Gosman, and go an educate yourself about what the GP really is. Start with their charter (emphasis added),

          The charter is the founding document of The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand.

          The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand accepts Te Tiriti o Waitangi as the founding document of Aotearoa New Zealand; recognises Maori as Tangata Whenua in Aotearoa New Zealand; and commits to the following four Principles:

          Ecological Wisdom:

          The basis of ecological wisdom is that human beings are part of the natural world. This world is finite, therefore unlimited material growth is impossible. Ecological sustainability is paramount.

          Social Responsibility:

          Unlimited material growth is impossible. Therefore the key to social responsibility is the just distribution of social and natural resources, both locally and globally.

          Appropriate Decision-making:

          For the implementation of ecological wisdom and social responsibility, decisions will be made directly at the appropriate level by those affected.
          Non-Violence:

          Non-violent conflict resolution is the process by which ecological wisdom, social responsibility and appropriate decision making will be implemented. This principle applies at all levels.

          https://home.greens.org.nz/charter

          • Gosman 6.1.1.3.1
            20 May 2015 at 11:25 am

            What policy do they have that suggests economic growth needs to be seriously curtailed?

            • Bill 6.1.1.3.1.1
              20 May 2015 at 11:28 am

              I don’t know about the Greens Gos, but the scientific data suggests a year on year 5%+ reduction in economic growth is necessary to avoid dangerous levels of warming. In other words, effective abolition of the market economy.

              • Gosman …
                20 May 2015 at 11:31 am

                No scientific data that is widely accepted is advocating that course of action as far as I am aware. However I am willing to be shown to be wrong on this. Please provide a link.

                • Colonial Rawshark …
                  20 May 2015 at 11:41 am

                  Basically, energy consumption needs to crash by 10% or more. That’ll do you know what to the economy, including developing economies that financial markets are counting on for growth.

                • Bill …
                  20 May 2015 at 11:44 am

                  Sure. The date is widely accepted. Those that disagree with the implications of the data offer no rational alternative.

                  http://kevinanderson.info/blog/avoiding-dangerous-climate-change-demands-de-growth-strategies-from-wealthier-nations/

                  • Gosman …
                    20 May 2015 at 11:51 am

                    And this is why the wider left is on the back foot on getting action on tackling climate change. Not one Green MP would be caught dead supporting the views expressed in that Blog.

                    • Maui …
                      20 May 2015 at 12:26 pm

                      This is just the reality of what we need to do, the Green approach is more palatable to the public because it involves reforming our current economic system. Not drastically rethinking it, which has to happen when we finally address the reality of what the world faces.

                    • Bill …
                      20 May 2015 at 1:00 pm

                      I don’t believe that the NZ Green Party offers any kind of a solution. The wider left (iethe left that inhabits the real world) is certainly hobbled by the general timidity of those who tout themselves as the parliamentary representatives of the left.

                      That scientists of the calibre of Anderson and Bows-Larkin – allowing for the fact they advise government (Do they listen?) – have to run a fucking blog in an attempt to get word out there says it all.

                • Macro …
                  20 May 2015 at 6:46 pm

                  That’s because you have NFI Gos. It’s in the literature if you care to have a look and it is the basis why no govt is prepared to take the lead and actually commit to doing anything about it. It scares the pants off them. All Govt’s it seems are wedded to the endless growth myth of perpetuated by the high priests of the religion of the Hidden Hand.
                  Actually Green Economic theory is based on sustainable economics which does not involve endless growth.
                  you can read about it here:
                  http://sustainable-economy.org/

            • weka 6.1.1.3.1.2
              20 May 2015 at 11:45 am

              “What policy do they have that suggests economic growth needs to be seriously curtailed?”

              False framing in a number of ways. “Seriously curtailed” buys into the right wing narrative of the GP wanting to take us back to the dark ages, as if the mighty economic growth is something that has to be held back against its will, and as if there are no other models of managing society that support wellbeing. It also misses the importance of moving to a post-carbon world, the imperative of that (we will in fact have no choice), and the crucial aspect of transition. You can’t get there from here in one jump.

              Reread Sans Cle’s original point (which talks about pragmatics), then go look up the GP policy for yourself and see which ones are about transitioning. Bear in mind GP intent is spread out across policy and policies interrelate. I’m happy to have a conversation with you about this, but I’m not doing your homework for you.

              • Tracey …
                21 May 2015 at 8:35 am

                PLUS 1

                and no response from Gosman

                • Gosman …
                  21 May 2015 at 8:58 am

                  About what?

                  There is no question directed to me here.

                  • weka …
                    21 May 2015 at 9:40 am

                    You don’t need a question to reply Gosman, as you have just demonstrated.

                    3/10 for evasion tactics, you can do better.

                    • Gosman …
                      21 May 2015 at 10:00 am

                      I think your whole comment is nonsense and couldn’t be bothered to engage with it. It is basically taking the view that it is for individuals to understand the Greens policy rather than the Greens to articulate them in a sunsinct and clear manner.

                    • weka …
                      21 May 2015 at 10:03 am

                      No, it’s not. The Greens articulate their policy and values very clearly. I just suggested that you go read their actual website instead of telling lies about them here. I can understand why you wouldn’t be bothered doing that, because then it’d be much harder to tell the lies.

                    • Tracey …
                      21 May 2015 at 10:12 am

                      “It is basically taking the view that it is for individuals to understand the Greens policy rather than the Greens to articulate them in a sunsinct and clear manner.”

                      Well done weka, you got the champion of individual responsibility to eschew individual responsibility for his decision-making.

                      As an aside, Gosman are you saying that because someone like you makes a statement without basis in fact about what the Greens stand for, your statement magically becomes the truth because they didn’t correct you? That as a person who wants to correct wrong-headed thinking that is a little, well, wrong-headed?

                  • Tracey …
                    21 May 2015 at 9:59 am

                    You don’t answer all questions put to you so that can hardly be your criteria for replying. And you address posts that don’t ask you a question. I am flattered that you respond to my posts so quickly (even if you don’t always address what they stated) but there are people with far better questions of you, than me, who deserve your time.

                    • Gosman …
                      21 May 2015 at 10:07 am

                      I haven’t seen any here. As stated Weka is expecting me to digest all of The Greens philosophy to understand where they stand in relation to manged contraction of the economy. Any Political party that expects someone to do that doesn’t really understand the point of politics.

                    • Tracey …
                      21 May 2015 at 10:09 am

                      No, weka is expecting you to stop making definitive statements about a policy you haven’t read.

                    • Gosman …
                      21 May 2015 at 2:47 pm

                      It is quite simple.

                      Where in all The Greens pronouncements around the economy does it mention that economic activity (as measured by traditional methods) will have to reduce significantly and that their policies will be looking to manage this process?

                    • McFlock …
                      21 May 2015 at 3:23 pm

                      Any political party would expect that someone who asks a variety of nuanced questions on a range of issues is competent enough to read the policy for themselves. Similarly, any political party would understand that anyone repeating questions after the false framing has already been pointed out probably does not really want an answer.

            • Tracey 6.1.1.3.1.3
              21 May 2015 at 8:33 am

              “There is no mention of sacrificing for the future of the Planet.”

              Rather than acknowledge a wrongful basis for your statement, you focus on another statement and assume that everyone reading and therefore replying was only replying to that part of your post. In some places that would be considered arrogant or wrong headed thinking.

              • Gosman …
                21 May 2015 at 9:01 am

                Ummm… that was my main point. The Green Party is not making a zero growth or a managed contraction in the economy clear in any of the policy pronouncements they have made since they have been in Parliament (as far as I am aware).

                You seem to be stating that people should read between the lines but the question is why aren’t they more upfront if that is the case.

                • Tracey …
                  21 May 2015 at 10:03 am

                  “No they aren’t. There is nothing in The Greens policies that suggest what you state. They keep banging on about Green Growth and how we can have better lives and higher economic growth if we adopt their policy platform. There is no mention of sacrificing for the future of the Planet.”

                  I am not stating people need to read between the lines at all. I am stating that if you are permitted to only partially answer people’s comments (and you clearly are) then others need only address aspects of yours, and one aspect of yours was

                  “There is no mention of sacrificing for the future of the Planet.”

                  If you wanted to make a “main point” leave out the other points.

                • weka …
                  21 May 2015 at 10:45 am

                  “You seem to be stating that people should read between the lines but the question is why aren’t they more upfront if that is the case”

                  This has already been explained. You can’t get to a stready state economy from the current one in one leap. You have to transition in stages, over time. That’s what the GP are promoting, transition.

                  I’m willing to bet you haven’t even read GP policy, including economic policy. This is why I suggested that you do. You won’t find a policy statement saying that we have to have a zero growth economy starting 2017 because there is no way to get there from here. What you will see is the steps to that eg in the economic policy they talk about changing how we measure growth, including

                  “[developing] a set of natural resource accounts that will measure the degradation or restoration of resources such as forests, clean water and energy reserves. We will use these to ensure that economic management achieves a decrease in the overall rate at which resources are turned into waste.”

                  https://home.greens.org.nz/policysummary/economic-policy-summary

                  That’s transition away from perpetual growth that we can’t sustain. I suppose it requires a certain level of ecological literacy to understand that in more detail, but on the face of it it’s clear. Have tools to measure what we do with our resources with the aim of reducing waste (i.e. live within our means).

                  But really, if you genuinely want to understand, you do have to look at GP policy as a whole, and then you can see that the principles I linked to yesterday about degrowth are being supported across the board. However I suspect what you really want is something that affirms your inaccurate view and the lies you’ve been telling about the GP.

          • Colonial Rawshark 6.1.1.3.2
            20 May 2015 at 11:46 am

            The basis of ecological wisdom is that human beings are part of the natural world. This world is finite, therefore unlimited material growth is impossible. Ecological sustainability is paramount.

            Then why were they launching new policy using PR shots of brand new sporty $80,000 electric and hybrid cars?

            • weka 6.1.1.3.2.1
              20 May 2015 at 12:02 pm

              link and I’ll tell you.

            • Tracey 6.1.1.3.2.2
              21 May 2015 at 8:36 am

              IF this matters to you, why on earth are you attending LP regional meetings? I can’t see any party that stands for what you want, and LP is very far away from it.

              • Colonial Rawshark …
                21 May 2015 at 10:17 am

                Some people subscribe to the views of specific political parties and might even join and support those parties in an active way. Of course this is a valid, though arse-backwards view of ‘true’ democracy. Where it is the people who tell the leadership which way to go.

                • Tracey …
                  21 May 2015 at 10:19 am

                  I understand that. Kind of the mole within perspective? To try and be change within.

                  • Colonial Rawshark …
                    21 May 2015 at 10:30 am

                    If you look at the history of the NZ Labour Party, people like John A Lee and more recently like Jim Anderton finally left/were pushed out from the Labour Party.

                    But their presence and their views forced Labour further to the left of the spectrum than it would otherwise have been, and pressured the party to seriously discuss policy ideas that its own conservative and capitalist nature would have otherwise considered too radical to implement.

                    Without Lee, the original state housing programme as we know it today would have been a far more privatised formula from the start. And without Anderton, we would not have Kiwibank.

                    What Labour needs today is a thousand John and Jacqui A. Lees joining the party, and a thousand Jim and Jane Andertons joining as well. The last thing we need are more ‘YES’ types enamoured with supporting the party establishment just because.

                    By the way, John A. Lee had close associations with the branch of the Labour Party I am a member of now – the Andersons Bay Peninsula branch (Dunedin South).

        • Tracey 6.1.1.4
          21 May 2015 at 8:30 am

          they do have people and the environment first in their priorities though Gosman, rather than the economic system currently operating at one…

          • Gosman 6.1.1.4.1
            21 May 2015 at 9:03 am

            They aren’t being honest and up front about changing the emphasis away from economic growth though.

            • Tracey 6.1.1.4.1.1
              21 May 2015 at 10:05 am

              I wish they would suggest that aiming for economic growth as a silver bullet is a fallacy which is shown to not deliver much of what is promised by those extolling it, yes.

              Do you wish ACT and National were honest and upfront about all their goals for us and their intention to change their goals at will (always following an election of course)? And if yes, why do you keep voting for one to prop up the others dishonesty?

  7. Anno1701 7
    20 May 2015 at 10:47 am

    Loving the choice of picture for this article, Anybody else notice the perforations ?

    Those were great tabs if i remember correctly 🙂

  8. The Murphey 8
    20 May 2015 at 11:32 am

    “Not buying carbon credits = doing precisely nothing …”

    Just stop already

  9. Brillo 9
    20 May 2015 at 2:33 pm

    How does Gosman manage to make this an argument about himself and climate change, rather than a comment list on the Government’s lying to the public and trying to duck its responsibilities in the biggest question of our lifetime?

    Don’t engage with the obvious distraction techniques the right wing uses, and instead stick to the topic of a deceitful and evasive government.
    It’s no less than either of them deserves.

    • Tracey 9.1
      21 May 2015 at 8:37 am

      Gosman has appointed himself a fixer of wrong-headed thinking, a goal he pursues with absolute rigger in all people except himself.

      • RealBlue 9.1.1
        21 May 2015 at 12:47 pm

        ” has appointed himself a fixer of wrong-headed thinking”

        Bit of irony there Tracey.

        “Rigueur”? maybe “Vigour” ?, A Rigger is a well paid skilled labourer.

    • felix 9.2
      21 May 2015 at 8:46 am

      Gosman has written more than a quarter of the comments in this thread.

      It’s a consensus of informed opinion vs one loud lobbyist determined to create the illusion of debate without engaging in any of the substance.

      Just as it always is when climate is discussed.

  10. Robert Atack 10
    20 May 2015 at 3:34 pm

    Not sure why ‘we’ pick on National for its lack of Climate Change action/truth ?
    Every other politician is equally to blame for the general ignorance out here or in parliament.
    The Greens latest insane/suicidal idea of Kiwi Saver for newborns is a fine example of business as usual bullshit.
    The true cost of our ‘climate inaction’ is near term extinction, and I’m sure treasury, the greens, National, etal are not going to tell us that.
    All we are doing now is discussing the arrangements of the deckchairs, the ice burg is well and truly in the rear view mirror, we have water lapping our arse holes, and all we do is discuss how to make an ergonomic bailing bucket.
    Politicians and their minions simply can not tell the truth, and most people at this stage are 100% happy with that, hence National etc don’t give a fuck really, as long as fools keep voting they have done their job.
    Having no children, enjoying hot showers, regular meals, a warm safe bed, and medication that keeps me ‘comfortable’, I’m all for keeping the BS flowing. The reverse, though unavoidable, is best put off for as long as possible.
    Its such a bugger methane is going to put an end to these comfortable arrangements.
    I know this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9PshoYtoxo is way to much for the politicians and their fellow trough feeders, but some of you might have the 90 minute attention span this talk requires. Of interest to us maybe is @ 44.30 ish Jennifer talks about the 99 gas flairs they found last year off the coast of Gisborne, now ‘we’ have 766 in the same area? shhhh don’t tell anyone 😉
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11441247

    • Tracey 10.1
      21 May 2015 at 8:39 am

      I’m not sure how deriding the Greens helps the situation which appears to be what some do (even if inadvertently). If Green policy were adopted more widespread (as it has by LP and Nats in the past) then the shift to where we need to be is made a tad easier. Lambasting the Greens plays into the hands of both LP and Nats who have no intention of taking us anywhere but closer to the fire.

      NOW, were someone like you and those who agree with you to set up a party, do some mass media blasting you could make the Greens look reasonable….

      • Robert Atack 10.1.1
        21 May 2015 at 10:59 am

        Lets say I’m not deriding the Greens so much as pointing out how stupid people are to think the Greens have any answers and are telling the truth.
        I’m just using the bullshit coming from the Greens as an example of how sucked in the general dumb Green voter is.
        I’m sure most people are in agreement (well 90 od % of scientists are) that this system can’t function for much longer, let alone the 65 – 70 years a born today child/new Kiwi Saver investor would hope it would.
        Yet the Greens are promoting the idea, of not only encouraging increasing overpopulation, but increasing carbon emissions, by maintaining the very growth based system that has killed this human friendly environment ie Kiwi Saver ffs???
        We can not invest our way out of this, all investing does is increase global warming, it increases/finances all global commercial activity, which increases C02, CH4, N20, etc, etc.
        Its just unfortunate we are here now.
        The King has no clothes.

        And you can not reason with nature )

  11. Corokia 11
    20 May 2015 at 7:59 pm

    FFS Robert, you HAVE already told everyone here about your belief that doomsday is imminent and that everyone must stop breeding now. Excuse us while we actually discuss the subject of the post which is the deliberate policy of National hiding information related to the issue of climate change (that they are currently consulting on) and the incredible arrogance of Groser when challenged on it. Yes, we and our kids and grandkids are all heading for collapse of civilisation, could you just STFU because some of us would like to have a go at slowing the descent.

  13. Sable 13
    21 May 2015 at 9:14 am

    Its time people woke up to the fact this government is not a government for the people but an interest group that represents rich parasites who do not care how they make money as long as they make money. If that reality is accepted everything they do makes perfect sense.

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  • Coalition's dirge of austerity and uncertainty is driving the economy into a deeper recession
    Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • Disability Funding or Tax Cuts.
    You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago

  • Of the Goodness of Tolkien’s Eru
    April has been a quiet month at A Phuulish Fellow. I have had an exceptionally good reading month, and a decently productive writing month – for original fiction, anyway – but not much has caught my eye that suggested a blog article. It has been vaguely frustrating, to be honest. ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    3 days ago

  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #17
    A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
    Skeptical Science
    3 days ago

  • Pastor Who Abused People, Blames People
    Hi,I spent about a year on Webworm reporting on an abusive megachurch called Arise, and it made me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.I don’t regret that reporting in 2022 and 2023 — I am proud of it — but it made me angry.Over three main stories ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    3 days ago

  • Vic Uni shows how under threat free speech is
    The new Victoria University Vice-Chancellor decided to have a forum at the university about free speech and academic freedom as it is obviously a topical issue, and the Government is looking at legislating some carrots or sticks for universities to uphold their obligations under the Education and Training Act. They ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Winston remembers Gettysburg.
    Do you remember when Melania Trump got caught out using a speech that sounded awfully like one Michelle Obama had given? Uncannily so.Well it turns out that Abraham Lincoln is to Winston Peters as Michelle was to Melania. With the ANZAC speech Uncle Winston gave at Gallipoli having much in ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • 25
    She was born 25 years ago today in North Shore hospital. Her eyes were closed tightly shut, her mouth was silently moving. The whole theatre was all quiet intensity as they marked her a 2 on the APGAR test. A one-minute eternity later, she was an 8.  The universe was ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago

  • Fact Brief – Is Antarctica gaining land ice?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is Antarctica gaining land ice? ...
    Skeptical Science
    4 days ago

  • Policing protests.
    Images of US students (and others) protesting and setting up tent cities on US university campuses have been broadcast world wide and clearly demonstrate the growing rifts in US society caused by US policy toward Israel and Israel’s prosecution of … Continue reading → ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago

  • Open letter to Hon Paul Goldsmith
    Barrie Saunders writes – Dear Paul As the new Minister of Media and Communications, you will be inundated with heaps of free advice and special pleading, all in the national interest of course. For what it’s worth here is my assessment: Traditional broadcasting free to air content through ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: FastTrackWatch – The Case for the Government’s Fast Track Bill
    Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its arguments for such a bold reform. ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    5 days ago

  • Luxon gets out his butcher’s knife – briefly
    Peter Dunne writes –  The great nineteenth British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, once observed that “the first essential for a Prime Minister is to be a good butcher.” When a later British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, sacked a third of his Cabinet in July 1962, in what became ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • More tax for less
    Ele Ludemann writes – New Zealanders had the OECD’s second highest tax increase last year: New Zealanders faced the second-biggest tax raises in the developed world last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) says. The intergovernmental agency said the average change in personal income tax ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Real News vs Fake News.
    We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago

  • Another way to roll
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Share ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • Simon Clark: The climate lies you'll hear this year
    This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Simon Clark. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). This year you will be lied to! Simon Clark helps prebunk some misleading statements you'll hear about climate. The video includes ...
    Skeptical Science
    5 days ago

  • Cutting the Public Service
    It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commission’s 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    5 days ago

  • Luxon’s demoted ministers might take comfort from the British politician who bounced back after th...
    Buzz from the Beehive Two speeches delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters at Anzac Day ceremonies in Turkey are the only new posts on the government’s official website since the PM announced his Cabinet shake-up. In one of the speeches, Peters stated the obvious:  we live in a troubled ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago

  • This is how I roll over
    1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • The Waitangi Tribunal is not “a roving Commission”…
    …it has a restricted jurisdiction which must not be abused: it is not an inquisition   NOTE – this article was published before the High Court ruled that Karen Chhour does not have to appear before the Waitangi Tribunal Gary Judd writes –  The High Court ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • Is Oranga Tamariki guilty of neglect?
    Lindsay Mitchell writes – One of reasons Oranga Tamariki exists is to prevent child neglect. But could the organisation itself be guilty of the same? Oranga Tamariki’s statistics show a decrease in the number and age of children in care. “There are less children ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • Three Strikes saw lower reoffending
    David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a ‘first strike’ (that is, a “stage-1 conviction” under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a ‘second strike’. In the five years prior to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • Luxon’s ruthless show of strength is perfect for our angry era
    Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in politics. That’s refreshing and will be extremely ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • 'Lacks attention to detail and is creating double-standards.'
    TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago

  • One Night Only!
    Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago

  • What did Melissa Lee do?
    It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to “save” the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago

  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #17 2024
    Open access notables Ice acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment: In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
    Skeptical Science
    6 days ago

  • Maori Party (with “disgust”) draws attention to Chhour’s race after the High Court rules on Wa...
    Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Government’s official website – arrived in Point of Order’s email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    7 days ago

  • Who’s Going Up The Media Mountain?
    Mr Bombastic: Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
    Bowalley Road
    7 days ago

  • “That's how I roll”
    It's hard times try to make a livingYou wake up every morning in the unforgivingOut there somewhere in the cityThere's people living lives without mercy or pityI feel good, yeah I'm feeling fineI feel better then I have for the longest timeI think these pills have been good for meI ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    7 days ago

  • “Comity” versus the rule of law
    In 1974, the US Supreme Court issued its decision in United States v. Nixon, finding that the President was not a King, but was subject to the law and was required to turn over the evidence of his wrongdoing to the courts. It was a landmark decision for the rule ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago

  • Aotearoa: a live lab for failed Right-wing socio-economic zombie experiments once more…
    Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder. In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago

  • Water is at the heart of farmers’ struggle to survive in Benin
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Megan Valére Sosou Market gardening site of the Itchèléré de Itagui agricultural cooperative in Dassa-Zoumè (Image credit: Megan Valère Sossou) For the residents of Dassa-Zoumè, a city in the West African country of Benin, choosing between drinking water and having enough ...
    Skeptical Science
    1 week ago

  • At a time of media turmoil, Melissa had nothing to proclaim as Minister – and now she has been dem...
    Buzz from the Beehive   Melissa Lee – as may be discerned from the screenshot above – has not been demoted for doing something seriously wrong as Minister of ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago

  • Minister acknowledges passing of Sir Robert Martin (KNZM)
    New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago

  • Speech to New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Parliament – Annual Lecture: Challenges ...
    Good evening –   Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago

  • Accelerating airport security lines
    From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago

  • Community hui to talk about kina barrens
    People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago

  • Kiwi exporters win as NZ-EU FTA enters into force
    Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago

  • Mining resurgence a welcome sign
    There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago

  • Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill passes first reading
    The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Government to boost public EV charging network
    Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure.  The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Residential Property Managers Bill to not progress
    The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Independent review into disability support services
    The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Justice Minister updates UN on law & order plan
    Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Ending emergency housing motels in Rotorua
    The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Trade Minister travels to Riyadh, OECD, and Dubai
    Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Education priorities focused on lifting achievement
    Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • NZTA App first step towards digital driver licence
    The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say.  “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Supporting whānau out of emergency housing
    Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Tribute to Dave O'Sullivan
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Speech – Eid al-Fitr
    Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Government saves access to medicines
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff.    “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Pharmac Chair appointed
    Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Taking action on Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder
    Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says.  “Every day, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • New sports complex opens in Kaikohe
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Diplomacy needed more than ever
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges.    “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address, Buttes New British Cemetery Belgium
    Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service.  It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address – NZ National Service, Chunuk Bair
    Distinguished guests -   It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders.   Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address – Dawn Service, Gallipoli, Türkiye
    Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia.   Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • PM announces changes to portfolios
    Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New catch limits for unique fishery areas
    Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Minister welcomes hydrogen milestone
    Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Urgent changes to system through first RMA Amendment Bill
    The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Overseas decommissioning models considered
    Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Release of North Island Severe Weather Event Inquiry
    Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Justice Minister to attend Human Rights Council
    Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order.  “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Patterson reopens world’s largest wool scouring facility
    Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Speech to the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective Summit, 18 April 2024
    Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing  At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin    Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho    Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today.    I am delighted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government to introduce revised Three Strikes law
    The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions.   “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says.    “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Humanitarian support for Ethiopia and Somalia
    New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today.   “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Arts Minister congratulates Mataaho Collective
    Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale.  “It is good ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • Supporting better financial outcomes for Kiwis
    The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

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