web analytics
The Standard

Nats say: land owned collectively

Written By: - Date published: 12:31 pm, September 20th, 2012 - 30 comments
Categories: treaty settlements, water - Tags:

Anyone notice that the Right’s arguments against ownership of water – apart from being a willful confusion of ownership in rights to water, which is what iwi are actually inserting and which are clearly enjoyed by a range of people under our law at present, and ownership of water itself (something, apparently, limited to bottled water sellers) – would apply equally to land?

For example, today’s Dom editorial says iwi can’t own water because it was here before Maori and will be here long after we’re all gone. I look forward to their next editorial on how all land should be held communally by the same logic.

Then, there was Key on Q+A last weekend:

I think you have to accept that elements like water and wind and the sun and air and fire and all these things, and the sea, along with natural resources like oil and gas, are there for the national interest of everyone. They’re there for the benefit of all New Zealanders, not one particular group over another.

Apart from the fact that I don’t think my neighbour would be happy if I came over and told him to make space by the hearth because all fire is for the benefit of all New Zealanders, isn’t Key also saying that all land ought to be owned collectively for the good of all of us?

Forget the water, Key’s radical agenda is to nationalise all the land.

Or is it, maybe, just maybe, that the Right will pull out whatever bullshit arguments they like to defend existing privileges and avoid honouring the Treaty, and they have no attention of applying those principles at all?

30 comments on “Nats say: land owned collectively”

  1. Roy 1

    Their rural supporters would not like that. Not one little bit!

  2. BernyD 2

    Crazy thing is it’s the same argument …
    In a real time Quantum Science sense “Everyone is standing on the ground therefore they own it”
    We exist, Thanks National.

  3. CnrJoe 3

    who owns the cow piss?

  4. deemac 4

    seriously though, ownership of water is not much use without the means to distribute it. A test case in England (on whose law the NZ system is of course based) decided that water rates are not paid for the water (which is free) but for the cost of cleaning and delivering it and removing waste water.
    Not to mention upkeep of waterways…

  5. Matthew 5

    I cant wait to get my allocation of Oil, Gas, Coal, Gold, Aluminium, Steel, and any/all other natural resources that we all own.

  6. Uturn 6

    What philosophical basis has the sun as an element?

    I’ve heard of earth, fire, sea, sky and wind; or water, earth, air and fire; or fire metal earth water and wood; and believe there was at one time band called Earth Wind and Fire. But no mention of sun. This could be the core problem witholding understanding of good faith talks from Key’s mind.

    • BernyD 6.1

      The same as earth and wind, based on current quantum ideology

    • Te Reo Putake 6.2

      “What philosophical basis has the sun as an element”
       
      This one?

      • Uturn 6.2.1

        Someone check John Key’s shoes. He may be dream sent to us from the Old White People. If he is, who is the message for, anyone that can see him?

    • Roy 6.3

      I own the sun, but I am very generous so you can all use it free of charge, provided you hold me not accountable for sunburn, solar flares, droughts or other adverse outcomes of the sun or exposure to it.

  7. vto 7

    This is not surprising.

    It has become apparent that pretty much all of the right’s arguments either don’t make sense, or they don’t even follow what they preach.

    Here is another example. Christchurch CBD rebuild. Clean slate. Perfect opportunity to test out the free market approach. Never ever been a better opportunity. But what they do? Intervene in the most massive way possible. Proof clear that even they don’t believe their bullshit (oh, except when it comes to east Chch residents. Then it is “oh no we don;’t want to interfere, the market will sort it out).

    They have no credibility.

  8. interesting point about ownership of things you cant hold, water air etc, what about radio frequencies, governments have sold off radio frequencies for millions. if nobody owns water, surely that also applies to radio waves???????

    • Carol 8.2

      And ownership of ideas? Concepts? Logos?

      • BernyD 8.2.1

        You can expand a thought much more quickly that way,
        It’s the implementation that deserves re imbersement

    • Uturn 8.3

      Or possibly if you can own radio waves then you can own water?

      It depends what you’re using to measure the “can” part of the premise. Can or can’t own is the same question.

      Last night I watched a bit of “afternoon tea with old people” on Maori TV. Interesting stuff. Among other things, they got to talking about the nature of horticulture and specifically, their favourite types of maori potatoes. The young interviewer says something to the old guy along the lines of, “Maybe growing and selling peruperu is a good way for our people to get some money.” And the old guy says, “Oh no, no, just give them (pakeha) some.”.

      The idea of a thing being it’s monetary value is a dangerous idea in the minds of modern people. They get to thinking that because something can be bought, it is theirs already, they just haven’t made the monetary exchange. Not only that, but they isolate themselves from the nature of the thing they buy, what it truly is, and the nature of the person from who they buy. To some minds, to buy a peruperu would be to lower the stadning of the person who offered the food and an attempt to shut half the world out of consciousness. There is more to life than what can or can’t be owned.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1

        There is more to life than what can or can’t be owned.

        QFT

        Unfortunately, our present system was designed by people who can’t see that because all they want/ed is to have power over others and they get that through ownership.

        • Populuxe1 8.3.1.1

          Saying capitalism was “designed” is like believing in intelligent design. It’s a mightily flawed system, but it evolved organically – no secret conspiracy dreamed it up and it’s lineage can be plotted historically. Believing that it’s a conspiracy might make you feel better about basing your entire world view on the theories of a long dead German philosopher the way fundamentalist Christians thump the Bible, but misusing the English language will not make it so.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1.1.1

            It’s a mightily flawed system, but it evolved organically – no secret conspiracy dreamed it up and it’s lineage can be plotted historically.

            Yep, and the people who made up the rules about it were the people who benefited from the rules they wrote.

            Believing that it’s a conspiracy…

            I didn’t say that it was a conspiracy. The rules were written well out in the open with full input from the people…

            Oh, wait, no they weren’t. That’s why we have the OIA (which doesn’t go far enough) and why we’re getting pissed that the TPPA is being discussed behind closed doors by the people who will benefit (the corporations have a say, the people don’t).

            • Populuxe1 8.3.1.1.1.1

              I didn’t say it was fair. Cancer is natural but no one designed it.

              Oh, wait, no they weren’t. That’s why we have the OIA (which doesn’t go far enough) and why we’re getting pissed that the TPPA is being discussed behind closed doors by the people who will benefit (the corporations have a say, the people don’t).

              That’s globalisation – a largely political agenda, and a completely different kettle of fish altogether.

              • Draco T Bastard

                /facepalm

                The whole of history has been full of political agenda. Instituting capitalism while trying very hard not to allow democracy was the political agenda of the capitalists at the time. The armed serfs had their own agenda as well and that’s why we actually have representative democracy – it was pragmatism on the part of the capitalists who didn’t want to be on the receiving end of those arms that had just defeated the monarchy while also allowing them to maintain control in a hierarchical system.

                • Populuxe1

                  That’s the the traditional philosophical apology for why we haven’t wholly embraced Marxism naturally as the great man predicted – it’s someone else’s fault!

  9. Draco T Bastard 9

    …and they have no intention of applying those principles at all?

    FIFY

    And they have no principles to apply.

  10. XTASY 10

    Aqua y solar. Nice that is. So nobodye also has rights resutling of use of such? Electricity ofr a chance? I pay it every month, so is also water, power all that “free”? BSS distraction.

    Revolucion:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CvRSZxqk_I

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEM9bYidyEU&feature=related

    Viva!

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Speculator tax political stunt gone wrong
    Bill English’s admission he doesn’t know whether National’s new speculator tax will have any effect shows last weekend’s announcement by the Prime Minister was a desperate political stunt, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “This Government is so desperate to… ...
    3 hours ago
  • The value of parenting
    This week, as part of the Budget, the government introduced a bill to address child poverty. This bill will require parents receiving income support to look for part-time work once their youngest child is three years of age rather than… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    7 hours ago
  • Another new tax, another broken promise
    National has unveiled yet another new tax in this budget – a rural broadband levy that will almost certainly result in an immediate price hike for internet and telephone connections across New Zealand, Labour’s ICT spokesperson Clare Curran said “The… ...
    1 day ago
  • Anniversary of Sri Lankan Tamil Massacre
    This is not going to be a happy story but if the Green Party of Aotearoa doesn’t want to know who else will? May 18th marks the anniversary of what is known as the ‘Mullivaikal massacre’ of Tamils in 2009 at… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    1 day ago
  • Labour MPs join youth to take part in 40 hour famine
    A team of Labour MPs took part in the 2015 World Vision 40 hour famine and we were told by World Vision and the young people, that it was the first time MPs had joined them and how appreciative they… ...
    1 day ago
  • Rodeo: ‘Family entertainment’ or animal abuse?
    Recently  TVNZ ran a story with confronting footage showing rodeo animals being punched, repeatedly shocked with electronic prods and having their tails violently twisted over their backs. It was clear that significant force was being used behind the scenes to make… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers MP
    1 day ago
  • Budget puts the squeeze on police
    The Government has cut funding to the New Zealand police force in the latest Budget, says Labour’s Police spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “The reduction is a whopping $15.3 million that could put front line officers at risk. ...
    1 day ago
  • Crucial social services take another hit
    The Government looks set to slash half a million dollars of funding for critical social services, including Women’s Refuge and Barnados, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni “Taking $500,000 from organisations aimed at improving the lives of vulnerable families… ...
    1 day ago
  • Saying it Loud on Climate in Christchurch
    The Government’s Christchurch consultation meeting on New Zealand’s emission targets was inspiring – not for what was in the Ministry for the Environment’s (MFE’s) defeatist video about the obstacles to changing to a low carbon future, but for what the… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    1 day ago
  • Budget silent on small business
    The Government has completely ignored one of the most important sectors of the economy – small and medium-sized enterprises – in Budget 2015, Labour’s Small Business spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. "A stunning 41 per cent of jobs were created by… ...
    1 day ago
  • Thank you John, it’s been bloody marvellous
    The departure of John Campbell is a blow to current affairs investigative journalism, Labour’s Broadcasting Spokesperson Clare Curran says. “Campbell Live stood out in its field. Its axing comes as local broadcasting in New Zealand remains in a state of… ...
    1 day ago
  • KiwiSaver cut shows no long-term plan
    National’s cutting of the KiwiSaver kickstart is incredibly short-term thinking, typical of a Budget that is woefully short on ideas to generate wealth and opportunity, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “New Zealand’s savings rate is far too low. KiwiSaver… ...
    1 day ago
  • National hits the panic button for its 7th Budget
    National has hit the panic button for its 7th Budget in a desperate attempt to look like they’re taking action to reduce our shameful child poverty rates, but they are giving with one hand and taking with the other, Opposition… ...
    2 days ago
  • Panic and back-flips can’t hide twin deficits
    National’s token measures to fight fires they have left burning for seven long years can’t hide a Budget that is long on broken promises, short on vision and fails to reach surplus, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “After being… ...
    2 days ago
  • Auckland land measure seven years too late
    National are so desperate to look like they are doing something about the Auckland housing crisis they have dusted off Labour’s 2008 inventory of government land available for housing and re-announced it, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Despite National… ...
    2 days ago
  • Access to gender reassignment surgery essential
    I was frankly disgusted to hear the Minister for Health say that funding gender reassignment surgeries is a “nutty idea”. A recent study found that in New Zealand 1% of young people identified themselves as transgender, and 3% were unsure… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    3 days ago
  • Global milk prices now lowest in 6 years
    The latest fall in the global dairy price has brought it to the lowest level in six years and shows there must be meaningful action in tomorrow’s Budget to diversify the economy, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Dairy prices… ...
    3 days ago
  • Big risks as CYF checks stopped
    Revelations that Child, Youth and Family is no longer assisting home-based early childhood educators by vetting potential employees should set alarm bells ringing, Labour Children’s spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. “Doing away with an extra mechanism for checking potential new employees… ...
    4 days ago
  • Housing crisis about real people not numbers
    The Government’s continued failure to tackle the housing crisis is seeing thousands of vulnerable Kiwis being kept off social housing waiting lists, while others, who are on the list, are being forced to live in cars and garages, says Labour’s… ...
    4 days ago
  • Housing crisis about real people not numbers
    The Government’s continued failure to tackle the housing crisis is seeing thousands of vulnerable Kiwis being kept off social housing waiting lists, while others, who are on the list, are being forced to live in cars and garages, says Labour’s… ...
    4 days ago
  • State of origin
    Kiwis are increasingly concerned about the food they give their families. New Zealand consumers have the right to know where their food has come from, particularly when it involves animals, and should be able to expect our Government to label… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    4 days ago
  • Relationships Aotearoa
    It is disturbing that Relationships Aotearoa, a voluntary organisation set up in 1949 to help couples struggling with their relationships following the upheavals of World War II, may be forced to close, says Acting Spokesperson for the Voluntary and Community… ...
    4 days ago
  • An economy that is just working for some is an economy that is not working
    The National Party presents itself as a great manager of the economy, but if the economy is only working for some we really need to question that assertion. Alongside the perpetually elusive surplus, the levels of risk in our economy are… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    4 days ago
  • An economy that is just working for some is an economy that is not working
    The National Party presents itself as a great manager of the economy, but if the economy is only working for some we really need to question that assertion. Alongside the perpetually elusive surplus, the levels of risk in our economy are… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    4 days ago
  • House prices to a crack $1 million in 17 months
    The average Auckland home is on track to cost $1 million in 17 months’ time if nothing substantial is done to rein in soaring price rises, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Auckland’s house prices have skyrocketed 63 per cent… ...
    4 days ago
  • Vital support services can’t be left in lurch
    The National Government has big questions to answer about how a provider of services to thousands of vulnerable New Zealanders is set to fold, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. Relationships Aotearoa which provides support and counselling to families, individuals… ...
    5 days ago
  • Treasury and IRD on a capital gains tax
    Both the Treasury and IRD have been advising the National Government on the benefits of a capital gains tax. Documents released to the Green Party under an Official Information Act request show that John Key has been selective with the… ...
    GreensBy Russel Norman MP
    5 days ago
  • Charity legislation needs review
    It is unacceptable that the big corporate based charities claim  millions in annual income tax exemptions, while small community based and operated non-profit organisations  struggle to gain official charity status, Labour’s acting spokesperson for the Voluntary and Community Sector Louisa… ...
    5 days ago
  • John’s panic-Key response to housing crisis
    John Key needs to tell New Zealanders what caused his sudden change of heart that led to the Government’s scrambled and last-minute housing measures, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “The Prime Minister’s sudden rush of blood to his head followed… ...
    5 days ago
  • Keep our Assets Christchurch Campaign: An update
    I recently presented my submission to keep Christchurch Council assets at the Christchurch City Council’s public hearings on its 10 year plan on 13 May. The hearings are live-streamed and recorded so you can watch them on www.ccc.govt.nz. The Council’s… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    5 days ago
  • John Key finally admits there’s a housing crisis
    John Key’s weak measures to rein in the astronomical profits property speculators are making are an admission – finally – that there is a housing crisis, Labour Leader Andrew Little says. “But yet again National is tinkering with the housing… ...
    6 days ago
  • Government stifles voices in CYFs review
    The Government’s exclusion of the Māori Women’s Welfare League in a panel on the future of CYFs is a cynical ploy to stifle views, says Labour’s Māori Development Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta. “It's unbelievable that a significant review on the future… ...
    1 week ago
  • Speech to the Otago Chamber of Commerce
    Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. It’s a pleasure as always to be back in the town that raised me. Growing up in St Kilda meant that there was one thing that was a big… ...
    1 week ago
  • Key can’t just be Prime Minister for Parnell
    John Key must show New Zealanders in next week’s Budget that he is more than the Prime Minister for Parnell, and is also the Prime Minister for Pine Hill, Putararu and Palmerston North, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. In… ...
    1 week ago
  • Stop the conversions
    This week, some Waikato locals took me and intrepid photographer Amanda Rogers on a tour of some  lakes and waterways in their region, and up to the massive dairy conversions in the upper catchment of the Waikato River. It… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    1 week ago
  • More regional jobs go in Corrections reshape
    News that 194 Corrections staff are to lose their jobs will have ramifications not only for them and their families but for the wider community, Labour’s Corrections spokesperson Kelvin Davis says. Prison units at Waikeria, Tongariro and Rimutaka face closure… ...
    1 week ago
  • Government’s climate meetings off to a bumpy start
    On Wednesday, I attended a hui and an evening meeting that the Government had organised in Nelson as part of its climate change consultation tour, to support the Nelson community telling the Government to take meaningful action on climate change.… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    1 week ago
  • Taxpayers the only ones left feeling blue
    Ministry of Social Development bosses could have saved themselves thousands of dollars in consultants’ fees by providing staff with rose-tinted spectacles, Labour’s State Services spokesperson Kris Faafoi says. A report out today reveals the Ministry is spending over half a… ...
    1 week ago
  • Why are the regions still facing restrictions?
    Labour's Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford is questioning why the regions should continue to be saddled with LVR lending restrictions announced by the Reserve Bank today. “Labour has been calling for the regions to be exempted from LVRs for the best… ...
    1 week ago
  • The high costs of weak environmental regulation
    Te Waihora/Lake Ellesmere is described on the Department of Conservation website as “Canterbury’s largest and New Zealand’s fifth largest [lake], and an internationally important wildlife area.” But the lake is also polluted by nutrients leaching from farms in the catchment.… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    1 week ago
  • Submissions to Wellington City Council on their Gambling Venues Policy
    Every three years Councils across the country are required to check that their gambling venue policies are still fit for purpose and they can choose to consult on their policy if they are thinking of making changes. Councils don’t have… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    1 week ago
  • Reserve Bank action shows Govt out of touch and out of ideas
    The Reserve Bank’s unprecedented measures today show it understands the serious risks of the overheating housing market – in complete contrast to John Key’s refusal to acknowledge the crisis, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The Bank is right to… ...
    1 week ago
  • Send us your snaps: 25 Years of the Green Party
    This year we've hit a milestone. We're turning 25.To help celebrate a quarter of a century, please send us your photos from the last 25 years of the Green Party Aotearoa New Zealand! Note: Photos must be jpg, gif or… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 25 Years of the Green Party
    This year the Green Party sends 25. To help us celebrate a quarter of a century please send us you photos of 25 years of the Green Party!Photos must be jpg,gif or png and smaller than 2MB. If you are… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Bay growth plan too little too late
    Today’s Bay of Plenty growth study from MBIE is another example of Government spin - lots of talk but little action, says Labour’s Regional Development spokesperson David Cunliffe.  “This is a region that desperately needs to develop the downstream processing… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government bows to ACC pressure
     The Government has finally buckled to pressure from Labour and the New Zealand public in making a half billion dollar cut to ACC levies, but the full benefits are two years away,” says Opposition Leader Andrew Little.  “$500 million over… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • False figures cloud Auckland transport facts
    The Prime Minister should apologise and issue a correction after both he and Transport Minister Simon Bridges have been caught out misrepresenting facts on Auckland’s transport spending, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. "Both John Key and Simon Bridges have… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Govt books confirm National can’t post surplus
    The last publication of the Government’s books before the budget shows National will break its promise of seven years and two election campaigns and fail to get the books in order, says Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson. “The Government is… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • US state joins NZ with GE food labelling
    New Zealand has a similar law making the labelling of many GE foods compulsory, but the Government seems to let it slide.  Because the government has not monitored or enforced our GE food labelling laws since 2003, it seems the… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour Pays Tribute to Erima Henare
    “E ua e te ua tata rahi ana, Ko te hua i te kamo taheke i runga raa. No reira e te rangatira Erima takoto mai I roto I te ringa o Ihowa o nga Mano e moe e.” ...
    2 weeks ago

Public service advertisements by The Standard

Current CO2 level in the atmosphere