web analytics

Nats say: land owned collectively

Written By: - Date published: 12:31 pm, September 20th, 2012 - 30 comments
Categories: treaty settlements, water - Tags:

Anyone notice that the Right’s arguments against ownership of water – apart from being a willful confusion of ownership in rights to water, which is what iwi are actually inserting and which are clearly enjoyed by a range of people under our law at present, and ownership of water itself (something, apparently, limited to bottled water sellers) – would apply equally to land?

For example, today’s Dom editorial says iwi can’t own water because it was here before Maori and will be here long after we’re all gone. I look forward to their next editorial on how all land should be held communally by the same logic.

Then, there was Key on Q+A last weekend:

I think you have to accept that elements like water and wind and the sun and air and fire and all these things, and the sea, along with natural resources like oil and gas, are there for the national interest of everyone. They’re there for the benefit of all New Zealanders, not one particular group over another.

Apart from the fact that I don’t think my neighbour would be happy if I came over and told him to make space by the hearth because all fire is for the benefit of all New Zealanders, isn’t Key also saying that all land ought to be owned collectively for the good of all of us?

Forget the water, Key’s radical agenda is to nationalise all the land.

Or is it, maybe, just maybe, that the Right will pull out whatever bullshit arguments they like to defend existing privileges and avoid honouring the Treaty, and they have no attention of applying those principles at all?

30 comments on “Nats say: land owned collectively”

  1. Roy 1

    Their rural supporters would not like that. Not one little bit!

  2. BernyD 2

    Crazy thing is it’s the same argument …
    In a real time Quantum Science sense “Everyone is standing on the ground therefore they own it”
    We exist, Thanks National.

  3. CnrJoe 3

    who owns the cow piss?

  4. deemac 4

    seriously though, ownership of water is not much use without the means to distribute it. A test case in England (on whose law the NZ system is of course based) decided that water rates are not paid for the water (which is free) but for the cost of cleaning and delivering it and removing waste water.
    Not to mention upkeep of waterways…

  5. Matthew 5

    I cant wait to get my allocation of Oil, Gas, Coal, Gold, Aluminium, Steel, and any/all other natural resources that we all own.

  6. Uturn 6

    What philosophical basis has the sun as an element?

    I’ve heard of earth, fire, sea, sky and wind; or water, earth, air and fire; or fire metal earth water and wood; and believe there was at one time band called Earth Wind and Fire. But no mention of sun. This could be the core problem witholding understanding of good faith talks from Key’s mind.

    • BernyD 6.1

      The same as earth and wind, based on current quantum ideology

    • Te Reo Putake 6.2

      “What philosophical basis has the sun as an element”
       
      This one?

      • Uturn 6.2.1

        Someone check John Key’s shoes. He may be dream sent to us from the Old White People. If he is, who is the message for, anyone that can see him?

    • Roy 6.3

      I own the sun, but I am very generous so you can all use it free of charge, provided you hold me not accountable for sunburn, solar flares, droughts or other adverse outcomes of the sun or exposure to it.

  7. vto 7

    This is not surprising.

    It has become apparent that pretty much all of the right’s arguments either don’t make sense, or they don’t even follow what they preach.

    Here is another example. Christchurch CBD rebuild. Clean slate. Perfect opportunity to test out the free market approach. Never ever been a better opportunity. But what they do? Intervene in the most massive way possible. Proof clear that even they don’t believe their bullshit (oh, except when it comes to east Chch residents. Then it is “oh no we don;’t want to interfere, the market will sort it out).

    They have no credibility.

  8. interesting point about ownership of things you cant hold, water air etc, what about radio frequencies, governments have sold off radio frequencies for millions. if nobody owns water, surely that also applies to radio waves???????

    • Carol 8.2

      And ownership of ideas? Concepts? Logos?

      • BernyD 8.2.1

        You can expand a thought much more quickly that way,
        It’s the implementation that deserves re imbersement

    • Uturn 8.3

      Or possibly if you can own radio waves then you can own water?

      It depends what you’re using to measure the “can” part of the premise. Can or can’t own is the same question.

      Last night I watched a bit of “afternoon tea with old people” on Maori TV. Interesting stuff. Among other things, they got to talking about the nature of horticulture and specifically, their favourite types of maori potatoes. The young interviewer says something to the old guy along the lines of, “Maybe growing and selling peruperu is a good way for our people to get some money.” And the old guy says, “Oh no, no, just give them (pakeha) some.”.

      The idea of a thing being it’s monetary value is a dangerous idea in the minds of modern people. They get to thinking that because something can be bought, it is theirs already, they just haven’t made the monetary exchange. Not only that, but they isolate themselves from the nature of the thing they buy, what it truly is, and the nature of the person from who they buy. To some minds, to buy a peruperu would be to lower the stadning of the person who offered the food and an attempt to shut half the world out of consciousness. There is more to life than what can or can’t be owned.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1

        There is more to life than what can or can’t be owned.

        QFT

        Unfortunately, our present system was designed by people who can’t see that because all they want/ed is to have power over others and they get that through ownership.

        • Populuxe1 8.3.1.1

          Saying capitalism was “designed” is like believing in intelligent design. It’s a mightily flawed system, but it evolved organically – no secret conspiracy dreamed it up and it’s lineage can be plotted historically. Believing that it’s a conspiracy might make you feel better about basing your entire world view on the theories of a long dead German philosopher the way fundamentalist Christians thump the Bible, but misusing the English language will not make it so.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.3.1.1.1

            It’s a mightily flawed system, but it evolved organically – no secret conspiracy dreamed it up and it’s lineage can be plotted historically.

            Yep, and the people who made up the rules about it were the people who benefited from the rules they wrote.

            Believing that it’s a conspiracy…

            I didn’t say that it was a conspiracy. The rules were written well out in the open with full input from the people…

            Oh, wait, no they weren’t. That’s why we have the OIA (which doesn’t go far enough) and why we’re getting pissed that the TPPA is being discussed behind closed doors by the people who will benefit (the corporations have a say, the people don’t).

            • Populuxe1 8.3.1.1.1.1

              I didn’t say it was fair. Cancer is natural but no one designed it.

              Oh, wait, no they weren’t. That’s why we have the OIA (which doesn’t go far enough) and why we’re getting pissed that the TPPA is being discussed behind closed doors by the people who will benefit (the corporations have a say, the people don’t).

              That’s globalisation – a largely political agenda, and a completely different kettle of fish altogether.

              • Draco T Bastard

                /facepalm

                The whole of history has been full of political agenda. Instituting capitalism while trying very hard not to allow democracy was the political agenda of the capitalists at the time. The armed serfs had their own agenda as well and that’s why we actually have representative democracy – it was pragmatism on the part of the capitalists who didn’t want to be on the receiving end of those arms that had just defeated the monarchy while also allowing them to maintain control in a hierarchical system.

                • Populuxe1

                  That’s the the traditional philosophical apology for why we haven’t wholly embraced Marxism naturally as the great man predicted – it’s someone else’s fault!

  9. Draco T Bastard 9

    …and they have no intention of applying those principles at all?

    FIFY

    And they have no principles to apply.

  10. XTASY 10

    Aqua y solar. Nice that is. So nobodye also has rights resutling of use of such? Electricity ofr a chance? I pay it every month, so is also water, power all that “free”? BSS distraction.

    Revolucion:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CvRSZxqk_I

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEM9bYidyEU&feature=related

    Viva!

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Labour and Greens sign historic agreement to change the Government
    The Labour Party and the Green Party have announced today they have signed an historic agreement to work cooperatively to change the Government. The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the parties commits them to working cooperatively to change the Government… ...
    18 hours ago
  • Budget ignores vital role of quality ECE
    Last night I watched a fascinating programme about the Otago University 45 year study of 1000 New Zealanders. It concluded that there are ways to intervene and support people who are at risk of becoming violent. One of the key… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    2 days ago
  • More ice for Radio NZ in Budget
    Budget 2016 once again left our only public broadcaster, Radio NZ (RNZ), worse off. After eight years of funding freezes, you have to wonder if RNZ is being iced-out for ideological reasons. I believe public broadcasting is an important cornerstone… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    2 days ago
  • Fisheries inquiry must be widened to include Trident
    The Government must widen its inquiry into the Ministry for Primary Industries to include its awarding of a company owned by Sanford and Moana Pacific Fisheries to monitor commercial fishing vessels, Labour’s Fisheries spokesperson Rino Tirikatene says. The Ministry for… ...
    2 days ago
  • Government spend up on state house sell off
    The Government has spent $28.9 million and has 129 officials working on its misguided state house sell-off, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.  “This is a scandalous waste of taxpayers’ money on a policy that won’t deliver a single extra… ...
    3 days ago
  • Housing crisis has huge impact on education
    The National Government’s failure to get on top of the housing crisis is having a major impact on the quality of education a lot of school kids are getting, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says.  “There are thousands of kids… ...
    3 days ago
  • Minister celebrates while arts organisations face cuts
    Maggie Barry was full of self-congratulations for her small arts announcement in the budget, ignoring the pain that a large number of organisations are facing due to her inaction, says Arts, Culture, Heritage spokesperson Jacinda Ardern.  “The Budget delivered a… ...
    3 days ago
  • Regions miss out again in Joyce’s Koru Lounge Fund
      The regions have missed out yet again with Steven Joyce offering just $10m a year for key regional development projects while trumpeting a bunch of re-heated announcements, says Labour’s Economic Development spokesperson David Clark. “The dairy downturn has put… ...
    4 days ago
  • Children’s Commissioner misses out in Budget
      The Office of the Children’s Commissioner has missed out on a much needed boost in this year’s Budget, meaning they will be forced to continue their reduced monitoring role of CYFs residences, says Labour’s spokesperson for Children Jacinda Ardern. … ...
    4 days ago
  • Communities miss out in Budget
    Budget 2017 has left community and NGO providers feeling exposed about the services they provide to vulnerable families especially in smaller towns and communities, says Labour’s Whānau Ora Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta. “Approximately $40m will go into Whānau Ora to work… ...
    5 days ago
  • Budget2016: Two Worlds
    Sometimes I feel as if I live in two worlds. The world created by the National Government where everything is great and they’re doing a great job and the world as seen through the eyes of child advocates, community workers,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    5 days ago
  • Parekura would be proud – MTS gets boost
    The Labour Party is ecstatic that the Māori Party have shown support for one of Labour’s proudest policies, says Labour’s Māori Broadcasting Spokesperson Peeni Henare.  “The Māori Television Service was launched in 2004 by the late Hon Parekura Horomia. ...
    5 days ago
  • Māori housing in state of emergency
    The Government needs to declare a state of emergency for Māori Housing, says Labour’s Māori Development spokesperson and Te Tai Tokerau MP Kelvin Davis. “The extra $3 million a year Māori Housing Network fund will not scratch the surface in… ...
    5 days ago
  • State house sell off in disarray after provider pulls out
     The Government should cancel its planned sell-off of state houses after the second big community housing provider pulled out leaving the process in disarray, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.  “It is time for the Government to back away from… ...
    5 days ago
  • Nothing in Budget to help police to solve crime
    The Police Minister has failed to make communities safer with virtually no new money in yesterday’s Budget for police to address the appalling burglary resolution rates, says Labour’s Police spokesperson Stuart Nash.  “It’s a disgrace there’s no money or aspiration… ...
    5 days ago
  • Blog – Budget 2016: What about ordinary working people?
    Ordinary working New Zealanders don’t fare very well from this Budget. Setting aside the spin from the Government, it contains a lot to be concerned about and a fudging of the numbers. Green Party workplace relations spokesperson Denise Roche For… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    5 days ago
  • Real wages go backwards for next two years
    New Zealanders’ real wages will fall for the next two years as the cost of living outpaces forecast pay rises, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “New Zealanders have been doing it tough for far too long. They expect… ...
    5 days ago
  • The Attack on Public Education – by a thousand cuts
    Budget 2016 is another step towards the free public education system being a memory from the past. The Budget freezes the operations grant for schools and does not sufficiently cover the real increase in numbers of students entering the education system.… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    5 days ago
  • The Attack on Public Education – by a thousand cuts
    Budget 2016 is another step towards the free public education system being a memory from the past. The Budget freezes the operations grant for schools and does not sufficiently cover the real increase in numbers of students entering the education system.… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    5 days ago
  • The give with one hand – take with the other Budget
    The Minister of Health has pumped out media releases to 20 District Health Boards heralding increases in funding for their regions, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. “But when you add population growth and inflation into the figures you get… ...
    5 days ago
  • Budget offers no hope of fixing housing crisis
    The Budget’s underwhelming housing measures will give New Zealanders no hope that National is capable of fixing the housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “There isn’t a scrap of an idea to help desperate young Kiwi families into… ...
    5 days ago
  • How the budget fails new New Zealanders
    Greens co-leader James Shaw was absolutely correct to say the 2016 budget is just papering over the cracks. There’s nothing in this budget to increase wages, address inequal pay for carers or deal with the shocking pay rates and employment… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    6 days ago
  • Parents will pay more as school budgets frozen
    Parents will pay more for their kids’ education as a result of this year’s Budget after the Government froze operational funding for schools, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “This means schools are effectively going backwards. They will need to… ...
    6 days ago
  • Sticking Plaster Budget fails the test
    Bill English’s penultimate Budget fails to tackle the structural challenges facing the economy – a housing crisis, rising unemployment, underfunded health and creaking infrastructure, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “This Budget applies a sticking plaster to a compound fracture.… ...
    6 days ago
  • John Key fails middle New Zealand with no fix for housing crisis, more underfunding of health
    Middle New Zealand has again missed out in this year’s Budget with not a single fix for the housing crisis, and health and education woefully underfunded again, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “This Budget is just a patchwork… ...
    6 days ago
  • Labour Bill would back Kiwi jobs
    The Government’s $40 billion of buying power would go towards backing Kiwi businesses and jobs under a Labour Member’s Bill which will be debated by Parliament, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “My Bill – which was pulled from… ...
    6 days ago
  • Julie Anne Genter: My Budget 2016 wish is fairness
    When my parents first visited me in Auckland ten years ago, they remarked on how there were no homeless people on the streets. Coming from Los Angeles, they were used to seeing the impacts of horrendous inequality and a lack… ...
    GreensBy Julie Anne Genter
    6 days ago
  • Steffan Browning: Pesticide reduction and Organic Growth Strategy in Budget 2016
    Pesticide reduction The Budget is an opportunity for the Government to launch a pesticide reduction strategy that multiplies the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) and the Ministry for Primary Industries’ capacity to reassess pesticides and other toxins.  The Agricultural Compounds and… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning
    6 days ago
  • Steffan Browning: Pesticide reduction and Organic Growth Strategy in Budget 2016
    Pesticide reduction The Budget is an opportunity for the Government to launch a pesticide reduction strategy that multiplies the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) and the Ministry for Primary Industries’ capacity to reassess pesticides and other toxins.  The Agricultural Compounds and… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning
    6 days ago
  • Minister won’t fess up on wrong figures
    The Minister of Health was caught out telling porkies in Parliament today when he was asked about the number of people getting access to mental health and addiction services, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. ...
    7 days ago
  • Budget 2016 and our LGBTQI communities
    LGBTI people make up about a tenth of our population, and our communities face a unique set of needs and challenges. These challenges are caused or exacerbated by discrimination, invisibility and barriers to appropriate support. We have a long way… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    7 days ago
  • Budget 2016 and our LGBTQI communities
    LGBTI people make up about a tenth of our population, and our communities face a unique set of needs and challenges. These challenges are caused or exacerbated by discrimination, invisibility and barriers to appropriate support. We have a long way… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    7 days ago
  • Scrambled announcement policy on the hoof
    Paula Bennett’s scrambled desperate announcement that she will pay homeless people to move to the regions is just the latest evidence of the disarray this Government’s housing policy is in, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “This is policy… ...
    7 days ago
  • Police Minister admits resolution rates fall short of expectation
    Police Minister Judith Collins has admitted in Parliament current burglary resolution rates are not meeting the expectations of our communities, says Labour’s Police spokesman Stuart Nash “Out of 284 police stations in New Zealand in 2015, 24 stations recorded zero… ...
    7 days ago
  • Mojo Mathers: A better deal for animals in Budget 2016
    Currently we are failing animals in NZ. On the face of it farmed and domestic animals in this country have strong legal protection from abuse, cruelty and neglect. In reality it seems that only the very worst, most extreme cases… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers
    7 days ago
  • Metiria Turei: What we need from Budget 2016
    Every family deserves a warm decent home.  Everyone believes that. This housing crisis is just the latest consequence of a Government who puts the interests of the few wealthy people above the needs of NZ families.  Families are doing it… ...
    GreensBy Metiria Turei
    7 days ago
  • Dairy exports fall of 11%: Budget action on diversification needed
    Dairy exports have fallen 11 per cent compared to this time last year, a fall of almost $1.5b, showing the Government must take clear action on diversifying the economy in tomorrow’s Budget, says Labour’s Trade and Export Growth spokesperson David… ...
    7 days ago
  • Investors driving families out of homes in South and West Auckland
    Investors cashing in on skyrocketing Auckland house prices are driving families out of homes in South and West Auckland and causing homeownership rates in some of our poorest suburbs to plummet, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “New analysis shows… ...
    1 week ago
  • Budget must deliver on paid parental leave
    Budget 2016 must deliver 26 weeks paid parental leave by April 2018 – anything less will be short-changing families, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “My Bill which is before Parliament this afternoon has majority support and does just that. I… ...
    1 week ago
  • Key’s “brain fart” on tax cuts news to English
    John Key didn’t tell his own Finance Minister he was about to go on radio and announce he wanted $3b of tax cuts, just days after Bill English ruled them out, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “In Parliament today… ...
    1 week ago
  • What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 – A better start for our tamariki
    Ensuring the best start for our tamariki is a priority for me in everything I do. And so in Budget 2016, my first budget as an MP, I looking for the Government to make a real investment in the wellbeing… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    1 week ago
  • What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 – A better start for our tamariki
    Ensuring the best start for our tamariki is a priority for me in everything I do. And so in Budget 2016, my first budget as an MP, I looking for the Government to make a real investment in the wellbeing… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    1 week ago
  • Denise Roche: What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 Pt II
    Aotearoa’s new New Zealanders,  come to our country in vulnerable position: – often away from the culture, communities and families they know, sometimes in neighbourhoods without familiar faces and often encountering barriers to employment. With net migration at 50,000+ a… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Equal Pay and Budget 2016
    The last few years we’ve seen equal pay for women flagged as an undefined risk in the budget. This year we should expect to see this, as well as budgeted money to deliver equal pay to caregivers and funding for,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • Equal Pay and Budget 2016
    The last few years we’ve seen equal pay for women flagged as an undefined risk in the budget. This year we should expect to see this, as well as budgeted money to deliver equal pay to caregivers and funding for,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • A great Budget would
    A great Budget would embrace the challenge of our polluted rivers and move the money away from justifying the status quo water rules into cleaning up waterways. A great Budget would take the Ministry for the Environment freshwater budget and… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 week ago
  • Budget building materials policy backfires
    On the eve of this year’s Budget official figures show Nick Smith’s Budget 2014 centrepiece to reduce the cost of building materials has backfired, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment officials have spent the… ...
    1 week ago
  • Smarter, Better, Cleaner, Stronger
    This Thursday Bill English will deliver his eighth Budget. Will it continue the trend of previous National budgets, making tertiary education less affordable, putting only token funds into innovation, and subsidising polluters? Budgets aren’t what they used to be. Once… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    1 week ago
  • Govt must come clean on tax cuts in Budget
    National is making a mockery of the Budget process by dangling the promise of tax cuts but failing to include them in the Budget, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “National’s tax cut promises have turned into a farce. One… ...
    1 week ago
  • Grant Robertson Pre-Budget Speech
    Today I want to talk about success. As we know success can come in many different forms, from the fact you all made it here at such an early hour on a Monday, for which I am very grateful, to… ...
    1 week ago

Public service advertisements by The Standard

Current CO2 level in the atmosphere