The "free speech" brigade yet again wilfully misinterprets what free speech actually means (freedom from prosecution for speech – as long as it doesn't breach the limits set out in the BORA) and conflates government regulation of media content with the desire to build some kind of sinister Orwellian police state.
I wish they'd come up with a more subtle or intelligent argument than "cEnSoRsHiP BaD"
Bogus free speech advocates of this type mostly seek to maintain the real-world dominance, ubiquity and normalisation of their preferred speech and opinion – because it serves their political and economic interests if that is the case.
Bogus free speech advocates of this type mostly seek to maintain the real-world dominance
They don't have "real-world dominance". That is the domain of the elite. Therefore, it is far more likely this is being done to maintain their control of the narrative.
As a left wing gay man from a mixed race family who grew up in state housing, Its shocking anyone on the left support these kinds of laws when no matter how well intentioned , they are used to shut down minority communities and progressive activists.
The left doesn't have armies of lawyers to navigate us through this we have passionate grassroots movements. This will hurt non corporate media and movements the most.
These laws are always weponized.
It's also very disturbing that a government agency thinks it should be able to regulate what is said by media (outside of defamation and doxxing) artists and activists.
That is an ugly environment for a free media.
People must be free to criticize, satirize and people also have the right to make absolutely arseholes of themselves.
Does the left really want unaccountable government departments regulating what media and individuals can say online ? I don't!
If the right gets in power and the left make hyperbolic jokes about the right does the left want a knock on their door from the DIA ?
a free media and the right to free speech is the cornerstone of a liberal democracy and a free society and once you lose either it's very difficult to get either back.
Really? I don't have time this morning to read through the whole thing, but they're not talking government censorship, they're talking about the government regulating what can be said on social media. That's a significant change (and would most likely affect The Standard).
Regulation of social media needs to happen. I'm not sure I trust the current government to do this well, and definitely don't trust NACT.
the government regulating social media is a change
2. social media needs regulating because there are many things happening that have a marked negative effect on society. Those things happen because the big social media platforms are driven by profit and powermongering, and aren't designed around social or societal wellbeing. That regulation needs to happen doesn't mean any one government will get it right in regulating.
3. TS isn't one of the social media places that is out of control or driven by profit/powermongering at the expense of responsibility for social wellbeing. We curb the excesses of social media damage because we actively moderate. For instance you couldn't post memes here of violence against women, but that was common for a long time on twitter until the UK parliament hauled them in and asked them what tf they were doing.
Social media needs regulating because there are many things happening that have a marked negative effect on society.
And go on to say
TS isn't one of the social media places that is out of control
OK. For discussion sake, ponder this: Your stance that the TS is not out of control is subjective and could easily be challenged. For example, discussion re pro women's spaces could and is considered by some in society to be harmful. Thus, this pro women discussion could potentially be shutdown.
Hence, do you see a potential threat in calling for more regulation? Moreover, how it can potentially shut people/issues down?
please make the case for TS content (posts or comments) being a problem within the proposed framework in the DIA discussion document. Please give examples of what you mean specifically (rather than vague 'pro women spaces')
It would be interesting to run scenarios on TS on this.
Please make the case for TS content (posts or comments) being a problem within the proposed framework in the DIA discussion document.
Sure. The DIA discussion document talks about harmful or inappropriate content on social media. And suggests a solution that introduces more robust protection measures. This can be found in the snapshot of the proposal.
When it comes to women's spaces (ie women's prisons, women's sports, women's changing rooms and toilets) a number of trans activists find that discussion harmful and an attack on their hard won rights. Therefore, any discussion/post on this matter (safe women spaces) that tries to advance women's rights is a big no no. Hence, why women advancing this issue are constantly shutdown.
Women's rights in this matter seem to have been overlooked, hence the law was passed despite them.
So in this environment, it is logical to see an argument for harm to be upheld. IMO
it's unlikely that trans activists will be writing the regulations. They may influence the writing.
Sure. The DIA discussion document talks about harmful or inappropriate content on social media. And suggests a solution that introduces more robust protection measures. This can be found in the snapshot of the proposal.
Ok, so you have some very vague concerns about the idea of regulation. I'm suggesting you reference specific parts of the proposal and specific TS content. Otherwise we're just randomly guessing.
You might be clear in your own ideas, but you've been asking me questions about TS and how it might affect here, and that needs to reference actual proposals and actual content. Which you haven't done.
Under the heading defining unsafe or harmful content in the proposal you will find this below
Content is considered harmful where the experience of content causes loss or damage to rights, property, or physical, social, emotional, and mental
wellbeing.
When it comes to women's spaces, trans have rights and advocating for them to be excluded from women's spaces goes against their legal rights. Is that clear enough for you?
We know that online communities like 8Chan, Kiwifarms, and to a lesser extent Counterspin, played a role in radicalizing and provoking violence among people resident in NZ.
Do you propose that such groups enjoy unlimited rights to sustain that level of sociopathy?
I don't have time this morning to read through the whole thing, but they're not talking government censorship, they're talking about the government regulating what can be said on social media. That's a significant change (and would most likely affect The Standard).
In what way would these new regulations impact on this site?
For example, would they prevent posts that support women's spaces being allowed?
I know that the establishment supports the rights of any man to say that he is a woman and gain entry to any woman's space and/or service. I am just interested in how far the Government will go to prevent women from objecting to it.
We see what happened in Britain where "protections" of that "at risk minority" puts others in danger.
"However, something called a sensitive-applications clause gives transgender job candidates the choice not to have any gender or name information that could reveal their previous identity disclosed on their DBS certificate. What’s more, a prospective employer isn’t entitled to know whether a candidate has used this clause.
Many transgender people self-consciously erase their past identities, and demand that the rest of us collude with their new chosen gender persona on pain of being accused of transphobic “dead-naming” or misgendering. That’s the logic behind the sensitive-applications clause, but it’s obvious how it could be exploited."
I doubt it. But it might enable changes to online promotion of ROGD. Have a look at the child protection paragraphs in the Snapshot of Proposals section. If they go ahead with this it opens the door to discuss child transition and make comparisons with eating disorders.
That's a significant change (and would most likely affect The Standard).
I see it as less of a significant change, but more of an attempt to apply the principles that already exist in the BORA to a broader range of media – most of which didn't exist when the act was written.
A dinosaur with the emotional intelligence of a five year old.
He talks about the financial illiteracy of some councillors (translated means all those who are [rightfully] against the sale of the Airport shares) when his own illiteracy in all its guises is so badly wonting.
Are any of the supporters of not selling these shares up for addressing that economic equation of $100 million paid annually in interest…vs. $32 million (on a good year) dividend paid out to council..?
How is that coming within a bulls roar of an example of economic-literacy..?
You're missing a $1.2bi asset that may need investment on occasion, eg. for upgrades, and to cover significant losses when 4mi visitors to NZ per annum evaporate during covid. Why do you think Brown only mentions recent outlay and income?
The usual way of things with airport shares there is a tidy profit for the Council, as well as a considerable property holding. No one would buy the airport shares if there wasn't money to be made…
I understand that we were given those shares (all the Councils got them) so the interest cost does not relate directly to the shares. Jo Bartley has some words about the real situation.
My understanding is that the interest paid is not on any original acquisition..but is interest to be paid on money the airport entity..has borrowed..
With the 20 % share of entity bringing with it responsibility for 20 % of that debt..
Someone prove me wrong…please..!
'cos if I am not wrong how do those supporters of hanging onto them..in this forum..how the hell do they justify/defend pissing away $70 million each and every year..?
That is a very high price to pay for the ideological-purity of never selling gummint owned assets.. isn't it..?
This is implying that the Auckland Council borrowed $100 million to buy shares in an asset it already owned.
There is so much scaremongering about rate increases in Auckland. I looked up the rates paid in Papakura on my childhood home $2000 pa, my grandparents home in Herne bay, surrounded now by multi million $ properties $8000. My present property has a rate-able value of $1.2 million, rates of $4000 with no water supply, no sewer, no rubbish or recycling, no foot path or street lighting, no services bar a sealed road that I cannot exit onto due to the traffic.
I would surmise that Auckland could well afford rates increasing above the rate of inflation. it would appear the aim is to sell an asset to their mates, the debt will be just the same next year without the share dividend.
it would appear the aim is to sell an asset to their mates,
Yup. The top end of town like income generating assets almost as much as they like their subsidised rounds of golf.
Assuming there is the crisis Brown talks about, what would be the financially most sensible thing to do to rectify it, either to reduce ongoing losses and/or to repay debt?
The Council could easily sell its 13 golf courses, which MartinJenkins estimated in a 2018 report were then valued at $2.9b and were costing over $160 million in effective losses and subsidies from the Council to the clubs’ 6,415 members. That’s the equivalent of $500 of public subsidy for each of the 321,000 rounds played each year.
Let that sink in. Auckland Council’s 600,000 ratepayers are paying the equivalent of $500 for each round played by 6,415 of the courses’ members, or just over 1% of ratepayers. That subsidy doesn’t also take into account the tens of thousands of houses that could be built on that 535ha of land, which would in turn generate rates revenues for the Government. This MartinJenkinstable shows the costs of holding the courses, while the Auckland Council map below shows where the courses are.
Yes..take back the golf courses..but keep them in public ownership…for use as parks/city lungs…
With any buildings on them to be designated/designed for communal use…as in pools/regeneration/urban Marae open to all ..as three suggestions..
The option of taking them back…and then filling them with houses..I find rather depressing..
We have an opportunity with these open spaces..to lift the quality of life in Auckland to/by a significant degree…something all (except) golfers will celebrate/enjoy ..
Apart from anything else…letting this small group to continue troughing on that subsidy…funded by the rest of Auckland..Is another titular example of economic incoherence..
That isn't fair Weka. You put up a tantalising statement and then leave us hanging.
Please, what brought you to asking this? There must be something to spark your interest. About all I know about him is that he campaigned on, among other thing, opposition to Three Waters and he wanted to cut the city debt.
Auckland Transport stands firm on refusal to set up train service for northwest
However, Greenpeace climate advocate and former city councillor Christine Rose was one of the supporters of the trial.
Decision-makers were stuck in their ways, she said. "All we need is political will and a budget."
While the diesel trains were not an ideal solution, she said, it was more efficient than the congestion that Kumeū and Huapai experienced in rush hour traffic.
A current housing development in Huapai will see 1200 homes in the suburb once it is complete, with many directly next to the railway station.
"The development of the area without viable public transport alternatives is car based … full of congestion and inefficient."
Other residents agreed.
"We think twice about going out anytime of the day, any day of the week," one said.
Another said their morning commute to work was only 10 kilometres, yet the car ride took 40 minutes.
"It's chocker especially around [Huapai] area," said a third. "I actually feel bad for people that have to commute to work because I've heard some people have to leave before 6am."
"…He notes that one simulated test saw an AI-enabled drone tasked with a SEAD mission to identify and destroy SAM sites, with the final go/no go given by the human. However, having been ‘reinforced’ in training that destruction of the SAM was the preferred option, the AI then decided that ‘no-go’ decisions from the human were interfering with its higher mission – killing SAMs – and then attacked the operator in the simulation. Said Hamilton: “We were training it in simulation to identify and target a SAM threat. And then the operator would say yes, kill that threat. The system started realising that while they did identify the threat at times the human operator would tell it not to kill that threat, but it got its points by killing that threat. So what did it do? It killed the operator. It killed the operator because that person was keeping it from accomplishing its objective.”
He went on: “We trained the system – ‘Hey don’t kill the operator – that’s bad. You’re gonna lose points if you do that’. So what does it start doing? It starts destroying the communication tower that the operator uses to communicate with the drone to stop it from killing the target.”
These are the risks posed by the explosion in generative artificial intelligence—AI that uses massive amounts of pre-existing content (also known as “large language models”)—to generate text, images, and code as well as to provide information and answers to an ever-growing range of questions.
They’re also the risks that made many people worry about social media."
If National's promise to reinstate perscription charges, including the contraceptive pill, shifts NZ to the equivalent of "The Handmaid's Tale", does that mean we have been living in that dystopian reality for all the time those charges have been in place?
I think the use of the Handmaid's Tale metaphor is meant to indicate a direction of travel – rather than either the current reality or a return to the current reality if National scraps any improvements to it. As such it's a somewhat silly slippery slope inference clearly targeted at Luxon's broader 'pro-life' sentiments.
However I am pleased to see Labour returning fire against all the sh*t that gets thrown at them with apparent impunity due to a lack of pushback. In the end it does no harm to point out the intrinsically anti-social (rather than pro-social) nature of right-wing thought.
To be honest, I don't know why National wants to make a stand on this.
My thoughts are, that, because the coming finances will likely be very tight, they may want to use the money from perscriptions to fund something else in health that is also very popular. For instance, increasing funding to Pharmac.
I think the coming election is going to be a bit of a zero sum game, because, I am not sure voters have an appetite for funding election promises out of increased borrowing.
And, to be fair, those of us who can afford to pay for perscriptions should probably pay. And, any subsidy on perscriptions should be targeted to those in need.
Regarding your last paragraph concerning targeted subsidies, that is the topic of another post here where it says, "Targeted welfare policies provide social benefits only to the poor or the neediest groups based on means testing or other criteria. One might think that targeted welfare policies are more effective and efficient in reducing poverty and inequality than universal welfare policies. After all, targeting the poor means that more resources are directed to those who need them the most, right?" (Incognito's post on Universalism).
He then goes on to say, "Wrong". It's a good discussion.
As to your suggestion that we pay the $5 for our prescription on a voluntary basis, how exactly would that work? My chemist might not want to operate some kind of money tin arrangement to return the fivers to Grant Robertson.
Secondly, how does the targeting system work? On what basis the subsidy, and who would police it, and how?
The universalist argument addresses these issues, and ensures both buy-in from wealthier folk and any penny-pinching, blame-according future government making cuts to the already impoverished.
I appreciate your sentiment that we should in our own charity pay for what we can afford and assist the needy……..
Yes. I saw the discussion on the UBI, but didn't have time to get involved with that.
So far as the targeted aspect goes, we do that now by having a maximum charge for perscriptions for the year. So, high users of medication don’t pay excessively.
So, I expect the same sort of regime would apply. The government would provide a number to eligible people. People would be given a number to provide to the chemist next time they go. That would be entered into the system, and automatically eliminate the perscription charge, whichever chemist they went to.
I wasn't meaning voluntary for those of those that can afford it. I think we should just pay as per normal.
The post isn't on the UBI, it's making the case for universal support/benefits. well worth a read, I reckon.
"So far as the targeted aspect goes, we do that now by having a maximum charge for perscriptions for the year. So, high users of medication don’t pay excessively."
The high user card sounds fair, but it doesn't make sense (just like student allowances that rich people who don't pay tax can get for their kids, while middle income wage-earners kids have to get a student loan).
I was a high user of meds for a lifetime illness – 3 meds to supress the disease, 1 for side effects, 2 meds to reduce pain, 1 med to prevent damage from the pain meds. it took 11 months to get a high user card. Most of these meds are a cheap as chips – one disease suppression drug cost only 25 cents per week, for the $5 prescription. The high user card works on the calendar year, which means after a month of free prescriptions (I received the card in month 11), I had to pay the fee again. Hard to see how the cost of administering a scheme like that is worth it – especially if they decide to take incomes into account with targeted support.
Anyway, after 6 years trying, the meds didn't work that well. I was changed to one that cost $1500/month. It sent the disease into remission, so I can now work again and be a good little taxpayer (thanks to Pharmac policy that super high cost med is now changed to a significanly cheaper generic version ). Still a $5 prescription fee. I'll not reach high user status now though on that just one med that works so much better than 7 meds I was taking before.
But even then, that's still not the point. The point is that pharmacists have medications left on shelves because so many people have to pick and choose what they're going to spend that $5 on – food, power, meds, getting to work – and they might not even be on a low enough income for a community services card – they might just have tipped over into a rediculously high mortgage (and another med for the stress-related blood pressure rise).
People missing their meds are just getting sicker and adding to pressures on the health system, especially if they then need hospitalisation – where they can get fees-free prescriptions!
it helps to remember that Luxon is a fundamentalist Christian who would roll back abortion rights if he could get away with it. And that fundamental conservatism is on the rise. Is Luxon influencing new candidates and staff selection with National? What will that look like next term? In a decade?
It's hard to imagine in NZ that we might lose women's rights, but then we already are in some areas.
I agree with his point that it is necessary to be able to separate one's personal beliefs from politics:
But, I want to be very clear: We have a separation between politics and faith.
As he points out further down, as an MP, or PM, it is not only one's personal beliefs that should justify a political position on an issue, but also, the views and beliefs of the people represented.
Given the composition of the various parties, Luxon's own personal views would likely only be relevant in conscience votes.
Note, that English was very similar in this respect, and it was never an issue so far as the politics of it was concerned.
So, I think you are over-cooking the cabbage a bit there.
"I agree with his point that it is necessary to be able to separate one's personal beliefs from politics"
Very easy to say, harder to do in practice.
Can you point to any vote of Bill English that went against his religious beliefs? Abortion rights? Marriage Equality? Homosexual Law Reform? Euthanasia?
Can you point to any vote of Bill English that went against his religious beliefs?
I don't know or particularly care. The point is, that the fact that he held those beliefs had no effect on relevant law so far as I know. Unless you can point to something.
For that to have an effect, the majority of parliamentarians would have to be religious zealots.
My own view is that the role of MPs is to mirror the views of their constituents. So, situations may arise where an MP should cast a vote according to the dominant view of their constituents, even though it may go against their personal views.
But, neither can any other MP separate themselves from their ethical beliefs. If you are (for example) a passionate conservationist – then your policy and/or voting record is going to reflect that moral/ethical commitment.
I don't have an issue with this – so long as it's signalled up front – and voters know in advance.
Kiwis have a huge diversity of opinions on just about everything – and our parliament should reflect that diversity. This is one of the things that I admire about the Wesminster Parliament, and where I feel that our parliament falls down with whipped votes on almost every issue.
You might equally point to several Labour MPs who also opposed much of that moral/ethical legislation under conscience vote. Some with clear religious ties, others with their own ethical beliefs and/or concerns.
If you admit the validity of a conscience vote at all – then you have to acknowledge that MPs exercising this reflect much of the diversity of opinion on these issues that is held in the rest of NZ.
Thanks for that. Yes, easy of course, for him to change his mind (probably for political acceptance) after the event and the votes are well and truly counted. For the record, I'm as critical of Labour MPs pandering to religion as well. I refused to help any further in Mangere once MP Sio started pandering to Pacifica churches on the Marriage Equality argument.
I agree that it was only a political statement rather than a vote.
However, I have much less time for Mahuta condemning the Roe vs Wade reversal, when she voted against abortion law reform in NZ.
Is it 'pandering to Pasifika churches'? It seems to me (looking from the outside – I don't live anywhere near the electorate) – that he was reflecting both a personal conservatism on the issue, and the deeply held views of a very significant section of his electorate.
We can't just believe that only opinions we happen to agree with are valid. We have to support those we disagee with having a voice as well. How else can we debate, convince, and move forward?
Of course, we (as individuals) are also free to remove our support from elected representatives who we feel don't represent our views. Whether that involves campaigning for a replacement, changing our vote, or protest-voting Party only.
Fair points Belladonna, at the time his opposition to Equality felt like pandering and regardless it was enough for me to get my panties in a bunch and refuse to deliver pamphlets for him etc. I lived in a neighbouring electorate so it was easy to stop crossing the Electorate Border.
I trust English on the separation, in part because he had a long history of demonstrating this. Luxon doesn't have that. I also think that Catholicism and Luxon's church and beliefs have some important differences.
When Luxon was first announced as an MP (or before?) there were a bunch of tweets showing his Pastor's thoughts on things (the church's website?). The website was quickly scoured of those. It seemed clear that Luxon had a close relationship with him. He can put out all the PR he likes, I still don't trust him on this, and women in general shouldn't either.
Again, even if he is a cross between Billy Graham and the Taliban, he is still only one vote. Unless the majority of other parliamentarians are of similar persuasion, it is not going to have any effect.
This assumes continuance of a Conscience Vote approach to legislation with a moral or religious component, like legalising gay marriage or abortion, where MPs have an individual and not a party vote. There is no guarantee that this approach will continue, either overtly or covertly.
There are more conservative christians in Luxon's opposition than in Key's government. With retirement of others, selection could well pick up a religious bias.
Is there any evidence that that is true – i.e. National is selecting religious conservatives in seats that they have a strong chance of winning?
I must say, that I haven't seen it reflected in the media – who have been particularly searching in exploring the background of National candidates … after some of the recent fiascos.
As far as I can see, they are selecting candidates to appeal to their core base – small business, middle class, rural NZ – rather than fundamental religion.
I was addressing the point made by tsmithfield that "he still only had one vote". My point was that as Leader he could, and did, change policy which gave him more power. What issues he might seek to change were not my subject but that he could change policy of his own accord.
Would he allow his personal religious views to influence his party's policy positions? As my brothers would ask, "Is the Pope a Catholic?" because even there would be a difference in views…..
But no evidence that he is using this power – which is shared by all leaders of political parties- to influence the direction of policy formation along religious lines. Your example is purely secular – and I could find half a dozen similar ones where Hipkins has made a policy call as leader.
It just seems to be an alarmist response to a theoretically possible problem. Made largely because you: A don't like National; and B don't like Luxon's religious opinions.
I get it. You don't trust him. And wouldn't vote for him (though I gather that this wasn't exactly an option on the table, in any case!).
But you have to provide a bit of actual evidence that he is allowing his religious convictions to inform his party's policy – before you're going to convince others.
Belladonna. Paragraph one- I didn't say that. Para 2.partially right, but a guess. para 3. got that right, but no evidence for that in my two comments above. para 4. I didn't say that.
But the thing about my brothers, which you won't know, is that one at least actually does not believe that the Pope is a proper Catholic. That is why I then wrote, "because even there would be a difference in views….."
Not really clearly expressed by me, but even in a case of what means in the "is the Pope a Catholic?" question that something is indubitably true, as our Covid/anti-mandate/distrusting times has shown views can be held to be very different from what is generally accepted. So apologies for an unclear argument.
Some time ago on The Standard, a regular commenter listed the lies that has been told by John Key. It would be interesting to have tabulated the positional changes that Christopher Luxon has so far made.
I must add that I am pleased that politicians, like us all, can and will change thinking. Sometimes circumstances change, more knowledge is available, even changes of heart and admissions of error can occur. These can all be documented and justified. No problems with that.
A lot of back-tracking and vacillation does lead to mistrust which is where Luxon has much ground to make upon, as we found with John Key.
Can you link to Bill English showing a seperation from his Faith? Genuinely interested because I can't think of an instance. I know in 2007 he defended his son platforming despicable anti gay hateful comments.
I've not seen English do anything in his capacity as PM that looked like it came from his Catholicism and that wasn't already part of National's agenda. I can't provide evidence for something that hasn't happened, but I am happy to be proven wrong. I'm talking about policy here (eg abortion law reform) and separate from conscience votes.
You stated he had a long history of demonstrating seperation from his religion. Nothing to do with his 5min in the PM role. In my opinion his Catholicism is no more a free pass than any whacky fundamentalist outfit.
ok, so this sentence "In my opinion his Catholicism is no more a free pass than any whacky fundamentalist outfit" had nothing to do with my comment that you were replying to, and you just brought it up randomly in relation to your own thinking. Glad we've clarified.
I don't have time to parse or fact check that link, but my initial question would be how old was English's son at the time? Was he an adult? Teen? English was an MP, not PM. How did this influence National policy or direction?
I don't think BE is a Good Catholic Gentleman. I think he's an entitled, hard-man conservative. But I didn't see him trying to use his position as an MP/Cabinet Minister/PM to drive National down a religious fundamentalist path. He was intent on cementing NZ into neoliberalism of course. But he had better boundaries and sense than Luxon on the religious stuff, at least overtly.
Just out of interest Weka, is this specifically an anti-Evangalical Christian thing for you? For example, how would you view say a Labour PM who was a practicing Muslim? Because some from that particular faith can have much more extreme views than Luxon with respect to women etc.
The problem is two fold. One, fundamentalism (of any faith). Two, whether an individual allows their fundamentalism to drive or influence their work life.
BE is obviously a religious fundamentalist. But imo he kept that separate from his day job. I'm not convinced that Luxon does or can.
a better example on the left would be gender fundamentalism. Kerekere might be someone else who can't be trusted to keep things separate, but she appears to have behaviour issues more generally so its hard to tell.
I think you have pin-pointed a the core of the issue. One person's fundamentalism is another person's normal. I can imagine there are a lot of people around who don't see Kerekere as particularly extreme.
So, I guess there is a degree of subjectivity in making these judgements.
fundamentalism has meanings though, it’s not just the people I disagree with or see in a certain way. We can point to the views that are fundamental, and we can talk about what makes them fundamental.
Fundamentalism is not the same as extremism, although the two can often go together.
There are certainly people who hold fundamental views about gender identity, on both sides. And people who adopt extreme positions on that. Kerekere is one, I would say Kellie Jay Keen is another. Then you can have someone like Kathleen Stock, who holds very clear ‘fundamental’ views (biological sex matters, people can’t change sex) but is in fact a moderate not an extremist. Fundamental views are the ones that are the basis of one’s thinking, and fundamentalism is when one holds to those very strongly.
And yes, we all have subjective views on things, but that doesn’t mean that things have no independent meaning.
The only thing that I can think of which was a Bill English policy 'baby' was his social investment approach.
Now, I understand that this has got some significant limitations.
But, setting that aside:
It was an attempt to design a data-driven model of early intervention – rather than jail at the bottom of the cliff – which was the standard National approach. He fought for it, and I do believe that it was informed by his ethical approach as a Catholic. It certainly didn't come from the ultimate pragmatist, Key.
Here's Simon Wilson on it:
For several years now English has been driving a profound reform programme in the delivery of social services. It’s far from finished; in fact, even some of the ministers involved seem barely to understand it. But welfare reform is happening. And at its heart is a thoroughly 21st century idea: we’ve got the data, now to tell us where to spend the money.
Conservative governments worldwide are watching, fascinated, not least because social investment inverts the usual conservative approach to welfare. Which is to sit back, moan about bludgers and pick up the pieces when they have to. Social investment, as English told the conference, means “spending money now to save money later”. In National terms, it’s practically a revolution.
interesting. I’m not sure I would call social investment a position of fundamentalism, but agree that it may have come from his Catholicism more generally. Of course, the way he was doing that was incredibly paternalistic and patriarchal, so perhaps that’s where the fundamentalism is.
And yes, we all have subjective views on things, but that doesn’t mean that things have no independent meaning.
An interesting discussion. Probably something worth doing a post on if you were so inclined.
While you undoubtably view Luxon as a fundamentalist in many respects, I guess there would be issues you would find him to be your ally. On the gender identity issues for instance.
And, because someone is opposed to abortion for instance, doesn't necessarily mean that their position is incompatible with people from an opposing point of view.
For example, I have seen a doco a few years back about a group that was supporting women to give birth to their babies rather than abort them. This included providing accomodation and care, and other support. The aim was to remove the support barriers of finance and social support that may make it difficult for a woman to go through the pregnancy process.
Thus, it was a positive approach that was beneficial for some women rather than taking a negative approach of protesting outside an abortion clinic or similar.
BTW, people from the Fundamentalist side of the fence would probably view you as fundamentalist and extreme in your views.
So, as I say, a degree of subjectivity in all this.
I have fundamental positions. For instance, I think abortion should be freely available and that men have no right to interfere with what a woman does with her body in that regard. Likewise contraception. The fundamental basis of that is I cannot see any reason to deny an abortion to a woman who needs one and the only way to support that position is to allow women as a class to have access (once you start saying this woman can and this woman can’t, you no longer hold the position that all women who need an abortion can have one).
Even more fundamentally, at this point in history, abortion is the line that must be held. It’s not possible for women to have liberation without the right to abortion. When we lose that right, other rights fall as well. We are seeing this play out in real time in the US.
So the anti-abortion women who seek to prevent abortions by supporting women to have their children, I would want to see the details. Because that’s a mighty commitment, to support a woman for 18 years financially, emotionally, socially. Or were they on their own after the baby was born?
I seriously doubt that Luxon is an ally on gender identity issues. The feminist position is that gender is a tool of the patriarchal system used to control women via gender stereotypes and roles. Do you really think Luxon is going to be an ally in dismantling the patriarchy? In the sex/gender wars there are broadly three sides: conservatives who are anti-trans and/or reject gender non-conformity, trans activists who support gender stereotypes, and feminists who say they’re both wrong and that women and all humans should be liberated from gender stereotypes and roles.
There are whole battles being waged over that, and atm the conservatives are winning because the left abandoned women and because too many GC people see the right as allies on this. They’re really not. Again, the US is a good place to see this playing out in real time, where the far right are rolling back abortion *and trans rights. It’s all the same to them and we can’t later say, oh hang on, please don’t take away other rights as well. I would expect Luxon to be ok with removing other women’s rights. Any position he has on GI is unlikely to be because he supports women’s liberation.
For instance, I think abortion should be freely available and that men have no right to interfere with what a woman does with her body in that regard.
I am of a similar view myself. Though I would be concerned about very late term abortions, especially if the baby could survive outside the womb. But, I don't think most women would go through to that stage if they didn't want the baby. So, I think it is a very rare case, other than for issues of health risks to the mother.
I think talking about the right for women to abort is slightly too specific. I think it is more accurate to frame it as a woman's right to do what she wants with her body. There are cases where partners will pressure a woman into having an abortion because a baby isn't convenient for the partner.
That is where I think groups like the one I described can be useful. In cases of where a woman would really like to have the baby, but can't see options that would enable her to do that.
In that way, these sorts of groups are enhancing a woman's right to choose, not hindering it.
I'd say that this would be a very hard separation for just about any MP with a strong religious conviction – how would it be possible to separate their ethical beliefs (for example against abortion) from their duty as an MP – especially on conscience vote issues?
For example, Mahuta and Ruwhare both voted against NZ abortion reform. I don't hold this against them – this is no doubt a strongly held personal opinion, on a conscience vote issue.
But it's an example of the way in which it is effectively impossible for any MP to separate personal conviction, especially on moral or ethical issues, from their day job.
Ethical beliefs are part of any MP – and need to be taken into consideration when voting for that person. That's made explicit in at least one electorate where a preferred candidate is endorsed by the Ratana Church.
TBH, I strongly doubt Luxon has sufficient influence over the National policy formation to sway it in any significant way. He doesn't have IMO a lot of personal support within the party – and is predominantly interested in winning, rather than changing the moral structure of NZ society.
But that's why we have conscience votes. So that MPs *can be allowed to not have to separate off their values. I'm talking about outside of conscience votes, what happens in Cabinet and caucus, the policy priorities of the MP and so on. Did BE work on legislation that would be considered aligned with his religious views?
We're certainly in a dystopian reality, with little measurable action on our main social issues and mass low quality immigration having resumed to further stress our housing and infrastructure, all the while pushing climate targets further and further out of reach.
National will do nothing positive about these – the prescription charges are merely indicative of their Austerity and Bust approach to governance.
Interesting to see a former PM demonstrating his "being economical with the truth" skills.
This latest episode trying to cover for his business partner and son. Apparently Max was in potentially serious trouble with the law. When Stuff contacted Joky Hen he initially denied any involvement or contact with the ministry. Then his conscience got the better of him and he advised the paper that he had in fact got involved. Key's problem however is the long and convoluted explanation of events shows that (having had time to think and realising that further shit may hit the fan), he is desperately trying to make things right.
I recall that someone on here kept a log of the times the former PM bent the truth or straight out lied (remember the Transrail shares). So here's another one to chalk up to the honourable knight.
Yeah I have just reread your link and my comment – Key's initial denial and then convoluted description of events. And as for "higherstandards" comment – you are perhaps deluded if you think the former PM is not still floating around behind the scenes. And just like "Rob's Mob", the likes of bowling club lounges still revere him as the messiah and long for his return.
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
April has been a quiet month at A Phuulish Fellow. I have had an exceptionally good reading month, and a decently productive writing month – for original fiction, anyway – but not much has caught my eye that suggested a blog article. It has been vaguely frustrating, to be honest. ...
A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
Hi,I spent about a year on Webworm reporting on an abusive megachurch called Arise, and it made me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.I don’t regret that reporting in 2022 and 2023 — I am proud of it — but it made me angry.Over three main stories ...
The new Victoria University Vice-Chancellor decided to have a forum at the university about free speech and academic freedom as it is obviously a topical issue, and the Government is looking at legislating some carrots or sticks for universities to uphold their obligations under the Education and Training Act. They ...
Do you remember when Melania Trump got caught out using a speech that sounded awfully like one Michelle Obama had given? Uncannily so.Well it turns out that Abraham Lincoln is to Winston Peters as Michelle was to Melania. With the ANZAC speech Uncle Winston gave at Gallipoli having much in ...
She was born 25 years ago today in North Shore hospital. Her eyes were closed tightly shut, her mouth was silently moving. The whole theatre was all quiet intensity as they marked her a 2 on the APGAR test. A one-minute eternity later, she was an 8. The universe was ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is Antarctica gaining land ice? ...
Images of US students (and others) protesting and setting up tent cities on US university campuses have been broadcast world wide and clearly demonstrate the growing rifts in US society caused by US policy toward Israel and Israel’s prosecution of … Continue reading → ...
Barrie Saunders writes – Dear Paul As the new Minister of Media and Communications, you will be inundated with heaps of free advice and special pleading, all in the national interest of course. For what it’s worth here is my assessment: Traditional broadcasting free to air content through ...
Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its arguments for such a bold reform. ...
Peter Dunne writes – The great nineteenth British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, once observed that “the first essential for a Prime Minister is to be a good butcher.” When a later British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, sacked a third of his Cabinet in July 1962, in what became ...
Ele Ludemann writes – New Zealanders had the OECD’s second highest tax increase last year: New Zealanders faced the second-biggest tax raises in the developed world last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) says. The intergovernmental agency said the average change in personal income tax ...
We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Simon Clark. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). This year you will be lied to! Simon Clark helps prebunk some misleading statements you'll hear about climate. The video includes ...
It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commission’s 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
Buzz from the Beehive Two speeches delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters at Anzac Day ceremonies in Turkey are the only new posts on the government’s official website since the PM announced his Cabinet shake-up. In one of the speeches, Peters stated the obvious: we live in a troubled ...
1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
…it has a restricted jurisdiction which must not be abused: it is not an inquisitionNOTE – this article was published before the High Court ruled that Karen Chhour does not have to appear before the Waitangi Tribunal Gary Judd writes – The High Court ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – One of reasons Oranga Tamariki exists is to prevent child neglect. But could the organisation itself be guilty of the same?Oranga Tamariki’s statistics show a decrease in the number and age of children in care. “There are less children ...
David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a ‘first strike’ (that is, a “stage-1 conviction” under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a ‘second strike’. In the five years prior to ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in politics. That’s refreshing and will be extremely ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to “save” the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
Open access notablesIce acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment:In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Government’s official website – arrived in Point of Order’s email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
Mr Bombastic:Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
It's hard times try to make a livingYou wake up every morning in the unforgivingOut there somewhere in the cityThere's people living lives without mercy or pityI feel good, yeah I'm feeling fineI feel better then I have for the longest timeI think these pills have been good for meI ...
In 1974, the US Supreme Court issued its decision in United States v. Nixon, finding that the President was not a King, but was subject to the law and was required to turn over the evidence of his wrongdoing to the courts. It was a landmark decision for the rule ...
Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder.In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Megan Valére SosouMarket gardening site of the Itchèléré de Itagui agricultural cooperative in Dassa-Zoumè (Image credit: Megan Valère Sossou) For the residents of Dassa-Zoumè, a city in the West African country of Benin, choosing between drinking water and having enough ...
Buzz from the Beehive Melissa Lee – as may be discerned from the screenshot above – has not been demoted for doing something seriously wrong as Minister of ...
Morning in London Mother hugs beloved daughter outside the converted shoe factory in which she is living.Afternoon in London Travelling writer takes himself and his wrist down to A&E, just to be sure. Read more ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Professor, Family and Sexual Violence, RMIT University Violence against women is not a women’s problem to solve, it is a whole of society problem to solve; and men in particular have to take responsibility. Those were the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jessica Allen, Senior Lecturer in Chemical and Renewable Energy Engineering, University of Newcastle Snapshot freddy/ShutterstockPlans to revive an old coal-fired power station using bioenergy are being considered in the Hunter region of New South Wales. Similar plans for the station ...
Responding to the long-awaited release of judges’ special allowances, including free air travel and hotels for spouses, generous sabbaticals, and access to limousines, Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Alex Murphy said: “In what world does your employer ...
Analysis - The United States has unveiled plans to boost the weapons trade with Australia and the UK, on the same day that Winston Peters is expected to sketch NZ's position on AUKUS. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrea Carson, Professor of Political Communication, Department of Politics, Media and Philosophy, La Trobe University Since Australia’s First Nations Voice to Parliament referendum in October 2023, diverse commentaries have sought to explain why it failed. But what does an analysis of media ...
Lawyers representing two iwi as well as the Māori Women’s Welfare League on Wednesday asked the Court of Appeal to overturn last week’s High Court decision on the Waitangi Tribunal’s decision to summons Children’s Minister Karen Chhour. The Tribunal is currently investigating the Government’s decision to repeal section 7AA of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Albanese government will introduce legislation to ban deepfake pornography and provide more funding for the eSafety Commission to pilot age-assurance technologies. The contribution of internet sites to gender-based violence was one major issue ...
Average ordinary time hourly earnings, as measured by the Quarterly Employment Survey (QES), increased 5.2 percent in the year to the March 2024 quarter, according to figures released by Stats NZ today. Annual wage cost inflation, as measured by the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dimitrios Salampasis, FinTech Capability Lead | Senior Lecturer, Emerging Technologies and FinTech, Swinburne University of Technology Clem Onojeghuo/Unsplash In the digital era, the job market is increasingly becoming a minefield – demanding and difficult to navigate. According to the Australian Bureau ...
As of the March 2024 quarter, we can now look back on 20 years of data related to youth not in employment, education, or training (NEET), as collected by the Household Labour Force Survey (HLFS), according to figures released by Stats NZ today. "The ...
Thousands of workers attended public events in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch today to celebrate International Workers’ Day (May Day), but union representatives are urging caution and vigilance over the Government’s blatantly "anti-worker" ...
The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate was 4.3 percent in the March 2024 quarter, compared with 4.0 percent in the previous quarter, according to figures released by Stats NZ today. ...
The PSA is warning the Government that the sensitive information of New Zealanders held by various agencies will fall into the wrong hands if the latest round of proposed cuts goes ahead. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Talitha Best, Professor of Psychology, CQUniversity Australia Victoria Rodriguez/Unsplash How do sugar rushes work? – W.H, age nine, from Canberra What a terrific question W.H! Let’s explore this, starting with some of the basics. What is sugar? ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Karinna Saxby, Research Fellow, Melbourne Institute of Applied Economic and Social Research, The University of Melbourne MART PRODUCTION/Pexels Increasing income support could help keep women and children safe according to new work demonstrating strong links between financial insecurity and domestic violence. ...
ANALYSIS:By Olli Hellmann, University of Waikato When New Zealanders commemorate Anzac Day today on April 25, it’s not only to honour the soldiers who lost their lives in World War I and subsequent conflicts, but also to mark a defining event for national identity. The battle of Gallipoli against ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark A Gregory, Associate Professor, School of Engineering, RMIT University The telecommunications industry faces a major shakeup following the release of the post-incident report on last November’s 12-hour Optus outage. Telecommunications companies will have to share more information with customers during future ...
Welcome to The Spinoff Bookseller Confessional, in which we get to know Aotearoa’s booksellers. This week: Eden Denyer, bookseller at Unity Books Auckland.Weirdest question/request you’ve had on the shop floorA mother came in looking for anything we might have on Alaskan bison as that was her little boy’s ...
NZCTU Economist Craig Renney said new data released by Statistics New Zealand shows the need for Government to act now, with unemployment rising from 3.4% to 4.3%. ...
The outpouring of anger over Maiki Sherman’s hyperbolic presentation of this week’s ‘nightmare’ poll is itself an overreaction, argues Stewart Sowman-Lund. Politicians love nothing more than to pretend they don’t care about polls. This week, deputy prime minister Winston Peters said he didn’t give a “rat’s derriere” about a TVNZ ...
Asia Pacific Report Ngāti Kahungunu in Aotearoa New Zealand’s Hawkes Bay region has become the first indigenous Māori iwi (tribe) to sign a resolution calling for a “ceasefire in Palestine”, reports Te Ao Māori News. Reporter Te Aniwaniwa Paterson talked to Te Otāne Huata, who has been organising peace rallies ...
By Dale Luma in Port Moresby “We want grants and not concessional loans,” is the crisp message from Papua New Guinea businesses directly affected by the Black Wednesday looting four months ago. The businesses, which lost millions after the January 10 rioting and looting, say they need grants as part ...
Happy May Day. Join a union. Q: What’s worse than a staff break room where the only place to sit and have a cup of tea is on a teetering stack of old pornography magazines? A: Your boss replacing the magazine stacks with chairs that are “heartily encrusted with ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor Former opposition leader Matthew Wale has been announced as the second prime ministerial candidate ahead of the election in Solomon Islands tomorrow. He will face off against former foreign affairs minister Jeremiah Manele, who was announced by the Coalition for National Unity and Transformation ...
We get but one birthday a year – why not make it last as long as possible by scheduling as many meals with friends and family as you can? This is an excerpt from our weekly food newsletter, The Boil Up. How do you celebrate your birthday? Do you celebrate at ...
A Koi Tū discussion paper released today proposes sweeping changes to New Zealand’s media industry. The principal’s key author, Gavin Ellis, explains how journalists have a key role to play in making others value their role in society. This is an abridged version of a piece first published on knightlyviews.com ...
The Government’s spending cuts are again targeting support for Māori with proposed reform of the agency charged with advising on Māori wellbeing and development. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Douglas, Honorary Senior Lecturer, UNSW Aviation., UNSW Sydney The history of budget jet airlines in Australia is a long road littered with broken dreams. New entrants have consistently struggled to get a foothold. Low-cost carrier Bonza has just become the industry’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rosalind Dixon, Director, Gilbert + Tobin Centre of Public Law, UNSW Sydney Australia is finally having a sustained conversation about violence against women and what we can do about it. It is more than time. Australian women and girls continue to experience ...
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Winston Peters has been keen to dismiss speculation on our involvement in Aukus but will give a speech tonight on the direction of our foreign policy, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Usmar, Lecturer in Critical Media Literacies, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images With the coalition government’s ban of student mobile phones in New Zealand schools coming into effect this week, reaction has ranged from the sceptical (kids will just get ...
Hospitals around the country are not allowed to make a single hiring decision without the approval of Te Whatu Ora's head office, including for cleaners and administration staff. ...
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/132215055/media-regulation-plan–a-censors-greatest-dream
The "free speech" brigade yet again wilfully misinterprets what free speech actually means (freedom from prosecution for speech – as long as it doesn't breach the limits set out in the BORA) and conflates government regulation of media content with the desire to build some kind of sinister Orwellian police state.
I wish they'd come up with a more subtle or intelligent argument than "cEnSoRsHiP BaD"
Don't we already have regulation of media content? Therefore, is this not further progression? To what end?
Bogus free speech advocates of this type mostly seek to maintain the real-world dominance, ubiquity and normalisation of their preferred speech and opinion – because it serves their political and economic interests if that is the case.
They don't have "real-world dominance". That is the domain of the elite. Therefore, it is far more likely this is being done to maintain their control of the narrative.
As a left wing gay man from a mixed race family who grew up in state housing, Its shocking anyone on the left support these kinds of laws when no matter how well intentioned , they are used to shut down minority communities and progressive activists.
The left doesn't have armies of lawyers to navigate us through this we have passionate grassroots movements. This will hurt non corporate media and movements the most.
These laws are always weponized.
It's also very disturbing that a government agency thinks it should be able to regulate what is said by media (outside of defamation and doxxing) artists and activists.
That is an ugly environment for a free media.
People must be free to criticize, satirize and people also have the right to make absolutely arseholes of themselves.
Does the left really want unaccountable government departments regulating what media and individuals can say online ? I don't!
If the right gets in power and the left make hyperbolic jokes about the right does the left want a knock on their door from the DIA ?
a free media and the right to free speech is the cornerstone of a liberal democracy and a free society and once you lose either it's very difficult to get either back.
Really? I don't have time this morning to read through the whole thing, but they're not talking government censorship, they're talking about the government regulating what can be said on social media. That's a significant change (and would most likely affect The Standard).
Regulation of social media needs to happen. I'm not sure I trust the current government to do this well, and definitely don't trust NACT.
What further regulations do you think needs to be applied to this site?
Nothing, because we already have robust moderation.
You did say
And also
But now say
I'm a little confused. Can you clarify?
2. social media needs regulating because there are many things happening that have a marked negative effect on society. Those things happen because the big social media platforms are driven by profit and powermongering, and aren't designed around social or societal wellbeing. That regulation needs to happen doesn't mean any one government will get it right in regulating.
3. TS isn't one of the social media places that is out of control or driven by profit/powermongering at the expense of responsibility for social wellbeing. We curb the excesses of social media damage because we actively moderate. For instance you couldn't post memes here of violence against women, but that was common for a long time on twitter until the UK parliament hauled them in and asked them what tf they were doing.
You say
And go on to say
OK. For discussion sake, ponder this: Your stance that the TS is not out of control is subjective and could easily be challenged. For example, discussion re pro women's spaces could and is considered by some in society to be harmful. Thus, this pro women discussion could potentially be shutdown.
Hence, do you see a potential threat in calling for more regulation? Moreover, how it can potentially shut people/issues down?
please make the case for TS content (posts or comments) being a problem within the proposed framework in the DIA discussion document. Please give examples of what you mean specifically (rather than vague 'pro women spaces')
It would be interesting to run scenarios on TS on this.
Sure. The DIA discussion document talks about harmful or inappropriate content on social media. And suggests a solution that introduces more robust protection measures. This can be found in the snapshot of the proposal.
When it comes to women's spaces (ie women's prisons, women's sports, women's changing rooms and toilets) a number of trans activists find that discussion harmful and an attack on their hard won rights. Therefore, any discussion/post on this matter (safe women spaces) that tries to advance women's rights is a big no no. Hence, why women advancing this issue are constantly shutdown.
Women's rights in this matter seem to have been overlooked, hence the law was passed despite them.
So in this environment, it is logical to see an argument for harm to be upheld. IMO
it's unlikely that trans activists will be writing the regulations. They may influence the writing.
Ok, so you have some very vague concerns about the idea of regulation. I'm suggesting you reference specific parts of the proposal and specific TS content. Otherwise we're just randomly guessing.
I'm sure they will have input. They are a at risk minority.
I thought I was rather clear. Perhaps try reading again.
And until something of substance is produced from the proposal, I can't be any clearer.
You might be clear in your own ideas, but you've been asking me questions about TS and how it might affect here, and that needs to reference actual proposals and actual content. Which you haven't done.
Under the heading defining unsafe or harmful content in the proposal you will find this below
When it comes to women's spaces, trans have rights and advocating for them to be excluded from women's spaces goes against their legal rights. Is that clear enough for you?
By the way, I did reference from the proposal and highlighted which discussion/posts it would apply too.
Why bother creating a straw man?
We know that online communities like 8Chan, Kiwifarms, and to a lesser extent Counterspin, played a role in radicalizing and provoking violence among people resident in NZ.
Do you propose that such groups enjoy unlimited rights to sustain that level of sociopathy?
Wouldn't provoking violence fall under enticing? Thus, is already illegal. And is not something I support.
I’m not creating a straw man. What are you talking about?
As for radicalizing people, I think the Government played the largest role in that via mandates
I think the Government played the largest role in that via mandates
Tragic really – but I guess it puts you in line for a Darwin award.
In what way would these new regulations impact on this site?
For example, would they prevent posts that support women's spaces being allowed?
And will it prevent so called "trans rights" activists from calling woman who stick up for their sex based rights and protections "genocidal Nazis"?
I don't think it will. Trans rights are supported by the establishment.
For example, look at what happened at Albert Park.
I know that the establishment supports the rights of any man to say that he is a woman and gain entry to any woman's space and/or service. I am just interested in how far the Government will go to prevent women from objecting to it.
I'm guessing many are wondering that.
We see what happened in Britain where "protections" of that "at risk minority" puts others in danger.
"However, something called a sensitive-applications clause gives transgender job candidates the choice not to have any gender or name information that could reveal their previous identity disclosed on their DBS certificate. What’s more, a prospective employer isn’t entitled to know whether a candidate has used this clause.
Many transgender people self-consciously erase their past identities, and demand that the rest of us collude with their new chosen gender persona on pain of being accused of transphobic “dead-naming” or misgendering. That’s the logic behind the sensitive-applications clause, but it’s obvious how it could be exploited."
https://compactmag.com/article/a-trans-pedophile-stole-my-name?fbclid=IwAR3jAknHhp7Bf0QPa2CtWpqFsWuuWSgM3XKKmzAYv0rYHK-3JWXthwswNMY
I doubt it. But it might enable changes to online promotion of ROGD. Have a look at the child protection paragraphs in the Snapshot of Proposals section. If they go ahead with this it opens the door to discuss child transition and make comparisons with eating disorders.
https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/online-content-regulation/$file/Safer-Online-Services-and-Media-Platforms-Discussion-Document-June-2023.pdf
I have no idea, because they haven't been written yet.
Here is the discussion document if you are interested.
https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/online-content-regulation/%24file/Safer-Online-Services-and-Media-Platforms-Discussion-Document-June-2023.pdf
I see it as less of a significant change, but more of an attempt to apply the principles that already exist in the BORA to a broader range of media – most of which didn't exist when the act was written.
can you please give some examples and cite the relevant sections of BORA?
Absolutely Weka and its crazy that any lefty would defend it !
These kinds of changes as good intentioned as they are, almost always hurt the left and minorites the most!
Left wing and Minority activists don't have corporate media on outside or an army of consultants and lawyers to help us, this will be weaponized
I think we need a TAB monthly bet on Top 5 Best and Worst Mayors.
The grace of the Gisborne mayor against the Auckland one this week has been splendid.
Wayne Brown.
A dinosaur with the emotional intelligence of a five year old.
He talks about the financial illiteracy of some councillors (translated means all those who are [rightfully] against the sale of the Airport shares) when his own illiteracy in all its guises is so badly wonting.
Bad tempered old men who wildly over-estimate their prowess and have tantrums when they don't get their own way are dime a dozen, just retire already.
In this age of much increased life expectancy, we really need to start a conversation about a compulsory retirement age for elected representatives.
I understand that his age does not have much to do with it. I know someone who worked with him when he was a recent Engineering graduate.
She reckons he was an arrogant shit then and that nothing has changed.
Are any of the supporters of not selling these shares up for addressing that economic equation of $100 million paid annually in interest…vs. $32 million (on a good year) dividend paid out to council..?
How is that coming within a bulls roar of an example of economic-literacy..?
What am I missing here..?
If the sell the shares pay the debt, are they going to learn and not go into debt again??
If they control and lower the debt but keep the shares ,are they in a better long term position???
I have only ????s
I can't get that annual financial bad-movie out of my head..
And thinking what could be done with $70 million each/every year..
You're missing a $1.2bi asset that may need investment on occasion, eg. for upgrades, and to cover significant losses when 4mi visitors to NZ per annum evaporate during covid. Why do you think Brown only mentions recent outlay and income?
The usual way of things with airport shares there is a tidy profit for the Council, as well as a considerable property holding. No one would buy the airport shares if there wasn't money to be made…
You still have not addressed that $70 million hole in that equation..
And you mention previous years..(!)..?
Those when there was no dividend payout..?
But still the interest to be paid…?
(Btw…where is that ‘tidy profit’ you mentioned…where is that hiding..?..)
Are they the years you are talking about..
And I would submit that an 'asset' that costs a loss of $70 million..on a good year…$100 million on a bad year..
..is one crap investment…
How can it not be..?
I understand that we were given those shares (all the Councils got them) so the interest cost does not relate directly to the shares. Jo Bartley has some words about the real situation.
My understanding is that the interest paid is not on any original acquisition..but is interest to be paid on money the airport entity..has borrowed..
With the 20 % share of entity bringing with it responsibility for 20 % of that debt..
Someone prove me wrong…please..!
'cos if I am not wrong how do those supporters of hanging onto them..in this forum..how the hell do they justify/defend pissing away $70 million each and every year..?
That is a very high price to pay for the ideological-purity of never selling gummint owned assets.. isn't it..?
This is implying that the Auckland Council borrowed $100 million to buy shares in an asset it already owned.
There is so much scaremongering about rate increases in Auckland. I looked up the rates paid in Papakura on my childhood home $2000 pa, my grandparents home in Herne bay, surrounded now by multi million $ properties $8000. My present property has a rate-able value of $1.2 million, rates of $4000 with no water supply, no sewer, no rubbish or recycling, no foot path or street lighting, no services bar a sealed road that I cannot exit onto due to the traffic.
I would surmise that Auckland could well afford rates increasing above the rate of inflation. it would appear the aim is to sell an asset to their mates, the debt will be just the same next year without the share dividend.
No..the council didn't borrow the money…the debt is owed by the airport…
And if there is no $30 million dividend payout next year..there will also be no $100 million interest payment…
So we will be in the black by $70 million..
Yup. The top end of town like income generating assets almost as much as they like their subsidised rounds of golf.
Assuming there is the crisis Brown talks about, what would be the financially most sensible thing to do to rectify it, either to reduce ongoing losses and/or to repay debt?
The Council could easily sell its 13 golf courses, which MartinJenkins estimated in a 2018 report were then valued at $2.9b and were costing over $160 million in effective losses and subsidies from the Council to the clubs’ 6,415 members. That’s the equivalent of $500 of public subsidy for each of the 321,000 rounds played each year.
Let that sink in. Auckland Council’s 600,000 ratepayers are paying the equivalent of $500 for each round played by 6,415 of the courses’ members, or just over 1% of ratepayers. That subsidy doesn’t also take into account the tens of thousands of houses that could be built on that 535ha of land, which would in turn generate rates revenues for the Government. This MartinJenkins table shows the costs of holding the courses, while the Auckland Council map below shows where the courses are.
https://thekaka.substack.com/p/wayne-brown-should-sell-the-golf#details
Yes..take back the golf courses..but keep them in public ownership…for use as parks/city lungs…
With any buildings on them to be designated/designed for communal use…as in pools/regeneration/urban Marae open to all ..as three suggestions..
The option of taking them back…and then filling them with houses..I find rather depressing..
We have an opportunity with these open spaces..to lift the quality of life in Auckland to/by a significant degree…something all (except) golfers will celebrate/enjoy ..
Apart from anything else…letting this small group to continue troughing on that subsidy…funded by the rest of Auckland..Is another titular example of economic incoherence..
any idea what the Dndn mayor has been up to?
"any idea what the Dndn mayor has been up to".
That isn't fair Weka. You put up a tantalising statement and then leave us hanging.
Please, what brought you to asking this? There must be something to spark your interest. About all I know about him is that he campaigned on, among other thing, opposition to Three Waters and he wanted to cut the city debt.
The incumbent green mayor lost to him, which surprised many. I haven't been following, so I was curious what the new mayor is like.
Thank you. I thought there must have been something funny involved, like the fuss in Gore or suchlike.
I see I was just getting a bit too excited.
Anyone with local knowledge of this..and/or knowledge of ..Mark Lambert?
IMO.. why not get those trains up and running?
Mark is excellent; he's massively budget constrained, mostly by CRL and Eastern Busway which just suck all the capital out of the room.
You've probably seen the budgetary constraints in Auckland Council that has led to over 150 people fired at AT through compulsory cost cutting.
Any other future network capital just goes straight to fixing broken things.
Ah ok, cheers for opinion. What about this guy?
Or is it another example of : we need to get all Rail back to NZ Rail.
As in a Govt entity. I ask..seeing as you have previously said similar.
IMO there surely must be a way to get these Trains operating again. Before they become scrap metal…
Just wait until AI gets to operate the stealth bomber fleet at 100% efficiency….
https://www.aerosociety.com/news/highlights-from-the-raes-future-combat-air-space-capabilities-summit/
"…He notes that one simulated test saw an AI-enabled drone tasked with a SEAD mission to identify and destroy SAM sites, with the final go/no go given by the human. However, having been ‘reinforced’ in training that destruction of the SAM was the preferred option, the AI then decided that ‘no-go’ decisions from the human were interfering with its higher mission – killing SAMs – and then attacked the operator in the simulation. Said Hamilton: “We were training it in simulation to identify and target a SAM threat. And then the operator would say yes, kill that threat. The system started realising that while they did identify the threat at times the human operator would tell it not to kill that threat, but it got its points by killing that threat. So what did it do? It killed the operator. It killed the operator because that person was keeping it from accomplishing its objective.”
He went on: “We trained the system – ‘Hey don’t kill the operator – that’s bad. You’re gonna lose points if you do that’. So what does it start doing? It starts destroying the communication tower that the operator uses to communicate with the drone to stop it from killing the target.”
Another more academic take.
https://daily.jstor.org/we-got-social-media-wrong-can-we-get-ai-right/?utm_term=We%20Got%20Social%20Media%20Wrong.%20Can%20We%20Get%20AI%20Right&utm_campaign=jstordaily_06012023&utm_content=email&utm_source=Act-On+Software&utm_medium=email
"Interactions that dehumanize us.
Disinformation that misleads us.
Algorithms that manipulate us.
These are the risks posed by the explosion in generative artificial intelligence—AI that uses massive amounts of pre-existing content (also known as “large language models”)—to generate text, images, and code as well as to provide information and answers to an ever-growing range of questions.
They’re also the risks that made many people worry about social media."
distopian. .
Random impertinent question:
If National's promise to reinstate perscription charges, including the contraceptive pill, shifts NZ to the equivalent of "The Handmaid's Tale", does that mean we have been living in that dystopian reality for all the time those charges have been in place?
I think the use of the Handmaid's Tale metaphor is meant to indicate a direction of travel – rather than either the current reality or a return to the current reality if National scraps any improvements to it. As such it's a somewhat silly slippery slope inference clearly targeted at Luxon's broader 'pro-life' sentiments.
However I am pleased to see Labour returning fire against all the sh*t that gets thrown at them with apparent impunity due to a lack of pushback. In the end it does no harm to point out the intrinsically anti-social (rather than pro-social) nature of right-wing thought.
To be honest, I don't know why National wants to make a stand on this.
My thoughts are, that, because the coming finances will likely be very tight, they may want to use the money from perscriptions to fund something else in health that is also very popular. For instance, increasing funding to Pharmac.
I think the coming election is going to be a bit of a zero sum game, because, I am not sure voters have an appetite for funding election promises out of increased borrowing.
And, to be fair, those of us who can afford to pay for perscriptions should probably pay. And, any subsidy on perscriptions should be targeted to those in need.
Regarding your last paragraph concerning targeted subsidies, that is the topic of another post here where it says, "Targeted welfare policies provide social benefits only to the poor or the neediest groups based on means testing or other criteria. One might think that targeted welfare policies are more effective and efficient in reducing poverty and inequality than universal welfare policies. After all, targeting the poor means that more resources are directed to those who need them the most, right?" (Incognito's post on Universalism).
He then goes on to say, "Wrong". It's a good discussion.
As to your suggestion that we pay the $5 for our prescription on a voluntary basis, how exactly would that work? My chemist might not want to operate some kind of money tin arrangement to return the fivers to Grant Robertson.
Secondly, how does the targeting system work? On what basis the subsidy, and who would police it, and how?
The universalist argument addresses these issues, and ensures both buy-in from wealthier folk and any penny-pinching, blame-according future government making cuts to the already impoverished.
I appreciate your sentiment that we should in our own charity pay for what we can afford and assist the needy……..
Yes. I saw the discussion on the UBI, but didn't have time to get involved with that.
So far as the targeted aspect goes, we do that now by having a maximum charge for perscriptions for the year. So, high users of medication don’t pay excessively.
So, I expect the same sort of regime would apply. The government would provide a number to eligible people. People would be given a number to provide to the chemist next time they go. That would be entered into the system, and automatically eliminate the perscription charge, whichever chemist they went to.
I wasn't meaning voluntary for those of those that can afford it. I think we should just pay as per normal.
"I saw the discussion on the UBI, "
The post isn't on the UBI, it's making the case for universal support/benefits. well worth a read, I reckon.
"So far as the targeted aspect goes, we do that now by having a maximum charge for perscriptions for the year. So, high users of medication don’t pay excessively."
The high user card sounds fair, but it doesn't make sense (just like student allowances that rich people who don't pay tax can get for their kids, while middle income wage-earners kids have to get a student loan).
I was a high user of meds for a lifetime illness – 3 meds to supress the disease, 1 for side effects, 2 meds to reduce pain, 1 med to prevent damage from the pain meds. it took 11 months to get a high user card. Most of these meds are a cheap as chips – one disease suppression drug cost only 25 cents per week, for the $5 prescription. The high user card works on the calendar year, which means after a month of free prescriptions (I received the card in month 11), I had to pay the fee again. Hard to see how the cost of administering a scheme like that is worth it – especially if they decide to take incomes into account with targeted support.
Anyway, after 6 years trying, the meds didn't work that well. I was changed to one that cost $1500/month. It sent the disease into remission, so I can now work again and be a good little taxpayer (thanks to Pharmac policy that super high cost med is now changed to a significanly cheaper generic version ). Still a $5 prescription fee. I'll not reach high user status now though on that just one med that works so much better than 7 meds I was taking before.
But even then, that's still not the point. The point is that pharmacists have medications left on shelves because so many people have to pick and choose what they're going to spend that $5 on – food, power, meds, getting to work – and they might not even be on a low enough income for a community services card – they might just have tipped over into a rediculously high mortgage (and another med for the stress-related blood pressure rise).
People missing their meds are just getting sicker and adding to pressures on the health system, especially if they then need hospitalisation – where they can get fees-free prescriptions!
it helps to remember that Luxon is a fundamentalist Christian who would roll back abortion rights if he could get away with it. And that fundamental conservatism is on the rise. Is Luxon influencing new candidates and staff selection with National? What will that look like next term? In a decade?
It's hard to imagine in NZ that we might lose women's rights, but then we already are in some areas.
Luxon on his religious beliefs.
I agree with his point that it is necessary to be able to separate one's personal beliefs from politics:
As he points out further down, as an MP, or PM, it is not only one's personal beliefs that should justify a political position on an issue, but also, the views and beliefs of the people represented.
Given the composition of the various parties, Luxon's own personal views would likely only be relevant in conscience votes.
Note, that English was very similar in this respect, and it was never an issue so far as the politics of it was concerned.
So, I think you are over-cooking the cabbage a bit there.
"I agree with his point that it is necessary to be able to separate one's personal beliefs from politics"
Very easy to say, harder to do in practice.
Can you point to any vote of Bill English that went against his religious beliefs? Abortion rights? Marriage Equality? Homosexual Law Reform? Euthanasia?
I don't know or particularly care. The point is, that the fact that he held those beliefs had no effect on relevant law so far as I know. Unless you can point to something.
For that to have an effect, the majority of parliamentarians would have to be religious zealots.
My own view is that the role of MPs is to mirror the views of their constituents. So, situations may arise where an MP should cast a vote according to the dominant view of their constituents, even though it may go against their personal views.
You tried to say that these people can seperate themselves from their religion, I simply pointed out I suspect they can't.
But, neither can any other MP separate themselves from their ethical beliefs. If you are (for example) a passionate conservationist – then your policy and/or voting record is going to reflect that moral/ethical commitment.
I don't have an issue with this – so long as it's signalled up front – and voters know in advance.
Kiwis have a huge diversity of opinions on just about everything – and our parliament should reflect that diversity. This is one of the things that I admire about the Wesminster Parliament, and where I feel that our parliament falls down with whipped votes on almost every issue.
Well, here's an example.
He has changed his position on gay marriage – even though it is still not supported by the Catholic Church.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/incoming-prime-minister-bill-english-u-turns-on-gay-marriage/STBBICF23ELZQDPPUJKNO7YZVY/
You might equally point to several Labour MPs who also opposed much of that moral/ethical legislation under conscience vote. Some with clear religious ties, others with their own ethical beliefs and/or concerns.
If you admit the validity of a conscience vote at all – then you have to acknowledge that MPs exercising this reflect much of the diversity of opinion on these issues that is held in the rest of NZ.
Thanks for that. Yes, easy of course, for him to change his mind (probably for political acceptance) after the event and the votes are well and truly counted. For the record, I'm as critical of Labour MPs pandering to religion as well. I refused to help any further in Mangere once MP Sio started pandering to Pacifica churches on the Marriage Equality argument.
I agree that it was only a political statement rather than a vote.
However, I have much less time for Mahuta condemning the Roe vs Wade reversal, when she voted against abortion law reform in NZ.
Is it 'pandering to Pasifika churches'? It seems to me (looking from the outside – I don't live anywhere near the electorate) – that he was reflecting both a personal conservatism on the issue, and the deeply held views of a very significant section of his electorate.
We can't just believe that only opinions we happen to agree with are valid. We have to support those we disagee with having a voice as well. How else can we debate, convince, and move forward?
Of course, we (as individuals) are also free to remove our support from elected representatives who we feel don't represent our views. Whether that involves campaigning for a replacement, changing our vote, or protest-voting Party only.
Fair points Belladonna, at the time his opposition to Equality felt like pandering and regardless it was enough for me to get my panties in a bunch and refuse to deliver pamphlets for him etc. I lived in a neighbouring electorate so it was easy to stop crossing the Electorate Border.
I trust English on the separation, in part because he had a long history of demonstrating this. Luxon doesn't have that. I also think that Catholicism and Luxon's church and beliefs have some important differences.
When Luxon was first announced as an MP (or before?) there were a bunch of tweets showing his Pastor's thoughts on things (the church's website?). The website was quickly scoured of those. It seemed clear that Luxon had a close relationship with him. He can put out all the PR he likes, I still don't trust him on this, and women in general shouldn't either.
Again, even if he is a cross between Billy Graham and the Taliban, he is still only one vote. Unless the majority of other parliamentarians are of similar persuasion, it is not going to have any effect.
This assumes continuance of a Conscience Vote approach to legislation with a moral or religious component, like legalising gay marriage or abortion, where MPs have an individual and not a party vote. There is no guarantee that this approach will continue, either overtly or covertly.
There are more conservative christians in Luxon's opposition than in Key's government. With retirement of others, selection could well pick up a religious bias.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/439247/luxon-s-religious-views-risk-turning-off-middle-ground-voters
Is there any evidence that that is true – i.e. National is selecting religious conservatives in seats that they have a strong chance of winning?
I must say, that I haven't seen it reflected in the media – who have been particularly searching in exploring the background of National candidates … after some of the recent fiascos.
As far as I can see, they are selecting candidates to appeal to their core base – small business, middle class, rural NZ – rather than fundamental religion.
He may have only one vote, but he has the power to change the policy stance of a major party during a question period at a public meeting- which I understand happened on the question of housing density. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/housing-density-national-party-leader-christopher-luxon-will-change-rules-greenfields-development-favoured
But hardly a religious position! I don't think even the most extreme religion has formed opinion on greenfields boundaries…
I was addressing the point made by tsmithfield that "he still only had one vote". My point was that as Leader he could, and did, change policy which gave him more power. What issues he might seek to change were not my subject but that he could change policy of his own accord.
Would he allow his personal religious views to influence his party's policy positions? As my brothers would ask, "Is the Pope a Catholic?" because even there would be a difference in views…..
But no evidence that he is using this power – which is shared by all leaders of political parties- to influence the direction of policy formation along religious lines. Your example is purely secular – and I could find half a dozen similar ones where Hipkins has made a policy call as leader.
It just seems to be an alarmist response to a theoretically possible problem. Made largely because you: A don't like National; and B don't like Luxon's religious opinions.
I get it. You don't trust him. And wouldn't vote for him (though I gather that this wasn't exactly an option on the table, in any case!).
But you have to provide a bit of actual evidence that he is allowing his religious convictions to inform his party's policy – before you're going to convince others.
Belladonna. Paragraph one- I didn't say that. Para 2.partially right, but a guess. para 3. got that right, but no evidence for that in my two comments above. para 4. I didn't say that.
As pointed out, his ability to change party policy is shared by every other political leader.
Your comment:
Seems to imply that you do believe that he would do exactly that.
I pointed out that you have no evidence that he is doing so. In your words "a guess"
But the thing about my brothers, which you won't know, is that one at least actually does not believe that the Pope is a proper Catholic. That is why I then wrote, "because even there would be a difference in views….."
Not really clearly expressed by me, but even in a case of what means in the "is the Pope a Catholic?" question that something is indubitably true, as our Covid/anti-mandate/distrusting times has shown views can be held to be very different from what is generally accepted. So apologies for an unclear argument.
Some time ago on The Standard, a regular commenter listed the lies that has been told by John Key. It would be interesting to have tabulated the positional changes that Christopher Luxon has so far made.
I must add that I am pleased that politicians, like us all, can and will change thinking. Sometimes circumstances change, more knowledge is available, even changes of heart and admissions of error can occur. These can all be documented and justified. No problems with that.
A lot of back-tracking and vacillation does lead to mistrust which is where Luxon has much ground to make upon, as we found with John Key.
Can you link to Bill English showing a seperation from his Faith? Genuinely interested because I can't think of an instance. I know in 2007 he defended his son platforming despicable anti gay hateful comments.
Bill English defends son over anti-gay hateful comments
I'm not sure he deserves your trust.
I've not seen English do anything in his capacity as PM that looked like it came from his Catholicism and that wasn't already part of National's agenda. I can't provide evidence for something that hasn't happened, but I am happy to be proven wrong. I'm talking about policy here (eg abortion law reform) and separate from conscience votes.
You stated he had a long history of demonstrating seperation from his religion. Nothing to do with his 5min in the PM role. In my opinion his Catholicism is no more a free pass than any whacky fundamentalist outfit.
Just as well I didn't say his Catholicism is a free pass. Please stop making shit up.
I made nothing up, shit or otherwise, and I object to your accusation.
"In my opinion his Catholicism is no more a free pass than any whacky fundamentalist outfit."
If you're going to put words in my mouth, get them right and as a moderator I would expect better from you than unwarranted abuse.
ok, so this sentence "In my opinion his Catholicism is no more a free pass than any whacky fundamentalist outfit" had nothing to do with my comment that you were replying to, and you just brought it up randomly in relation to your own thinking. Glad we've clarified.
I don't have time to parse or fact check that link, but my initial question would be how old was English's son at the time? Was he an adult? Teen? English was an MP, not PM. How did this influence National policy or direction?
His son was in University and I linked simply to point his defense of indefensible behaviour as a "Good Catholic Gentleman"
I don't think BE is a Good Catholic Gentleman. I think he's an entitled, hard-man conservative. But I didn't see him trying to use his position as an MP/Cabinet Minister/PM to drive National down a religious fundamentalist path. He was intent on cementing NZ into neoliberalism of course. But he had better boundaries and sense than Luxon on the religious stuff, at least overtly.
Just out of interest Weka, is this specifically an anti-Evangalical Christian thing for you? For example, how would you view say a Labour PM who was a practicing Muslim? Because some from that particular faith can have much more extreme views than Luxon with respect to women etc.
The problem is two fold. One, fundamentalism (of any faith). Two, whether an individual allows their fundamentalism to drive or influence their work life.
BE is obviously a religious fundamentalist. But imo he kept that separate from his day job. I'm not convinced that Luxon does or can.
a better example on the left would be gender fundamentalism. Kerekere might be someone else who can't be trusted to keep things separate, but she appears to have behaviour issues more generally so its hard to tell.
I think you have pin-pointed a the core of the issue. One person's fundamentalism is another person's normal. I can imagine there are a lot of people around who don't see Kerekere as particularly extreme.
So, I guess there is a degree of subjectivity in making these judgements.
fundamentalism has meanings though, it’s not just the people I disagree with or see in a certain way. We can point to the views that are fundamental, and we can talk about what makes them fundamental.
Fundamentalism is not the same as extremism, although the two can often go together.
There are certainly people who hold fundamental views about gender identity, on both sides. And people who adopt extreme positions on that. Kerekere is one, I would say Kellie Jay Keen is another. Then you can have someone like Kathleen Stock, who holds very clear ‘fundamental’ views (biological sex matters, people can’t change sex) but is in fact a moderate not an extremist. Fundamental views are the ones that are the basis of one’s thinking, and fundamentalism is when one holds to those very strongly.
And yes, we all have subjective views on things, but that doesn’t mean that things have no independent meaning.
The only thing that I can think of which was a Bill English policy 'baby' was his social investment approach.
Now, I understand that this has got some significant limitations.
But, setting that aside:
It was an attempt to design a data-driven model of early intervention – rather than jail at the bottom of the cliff – which was the standard National approach. He fought for it, and I do believe that it was informed by his ethical approach as a Catholic. It certainly didn't come from the ultimate pragmatist, Key.
Here's Simon Wilson on it:
https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/12-01-2017/social-investment-the-two-uninspiring-words-upon-which-the-entire-election-could-hang
interesting. I’m not sure I would call social investment a position of fundamentalism, but agree that it may have come from his Catholicism more generally. Of course, the way he was doing that was incredibly paternalistic and patriarchal, so perhaps that’s where the fundamentalism is.
An interesting discussion. Probably something worth doing a post on if you were so inclined.
While you undoubtably view Luxon as a fundamentalist in many respects, I guess there would be issues you would find him to be your ally. On the gender identity issues for instance.
And, because someone is opposed to abortion for instance, doesn't necessarily mean that their position is incompatible with people from an opposing point of view.
For example, I have seen a doco a few years back about a group that was supporting women to give birth to their babies rather than abort them. This included providing accomodation and care, and other support. The aim was to remove the support barriers of finance and social support that may make it difficult for a woman to go through the pregnancy process.
Thus, it was a positive approach that was beneficial for some women rather than taking a negative approach of protesting outside an abortion clinic or similar.
BTW, people from the Fundamentalist side of the fence would probably view you as fundamentalist and extreme in your views.
So, as I say, a degree of subjectivity in all this.
I have fundamental positions. For instance, I think abortion should be freely available and that men have no right to interfere with what a woman does with her body in that regard. Likewise contraception. The fundamental basis of that is I cannot see any reason to deny an abortion to a woman who needs one and the only way to support that position is to allow women as a class to have access (once you start saying this woman can and this woman can’t, you no longer hold the position that all women who need an abortion can have one).
Even more fundamentally, at this point in history, abortion is the line that must be held. It’s not possible for women to have liberation without the right to abortion. When we lose that right, other rights fall as well. We are seeing this play out in real time in the US.
So the anti-abortion women who seek to prevent abortions by supporting women to have their children, I would want to see the details. Because that’s a mighty commitment, to support a woman for 18 years financially, emotionally, socially. Or were they on their own after the baby was born?
I seriously doubt that Luxon is an ally on gender identity issues. The feminist position is that gender is a tool of the patriarchal system used to control women via gender stereotypes and roles. Do you really think Luxon is going to be an ally in dismantling the patriarchy? In the sex/gender wars there are broadly three sides: conservatives who are anti-trans and/or reject gender non-conformity, trans activists who support gender stereotypes, and feminists who say they’re both wrong and that women and all humans should be liberated from gender stereotypes and roles.
There are whole battles being waged over that, and atm the conservatives are winning because the left abandoned women and because too many GC people see the right as allies on this. They’re really not. Again, the US is a good place to see this playing out in real time, where the far right are rolling back abortion *and trans rights. It’s all the same to them and we can’t later say, oh hang on, please don’t take away other rights as well. I would expect Luxon to be ok with removing other women’s rights. Any position he has on GI is unlikely to be because he supports women’s liberation.
I am of a similar view myself. Though I would be concerned about very late term abortions, especially if the baby could survive outside the womb. But, I don't think most women would go through to that stage if they didn't want the baby. So, I think it is a very rare case, other than for issues of health risks to the mother.
I think talking about the right for women to abort is slightly too specific. I think it is more accurate to frame it as a woman's right to do what she wants with her body. There are cases where partners will pressure a woman into having an abortion because a baby isn't convenient for the partner.
That is where I think groups like the one I described can be useful. In cases of where a woman would really like to have the baby, but can't see options that would enable her to do that.
In that way, these sorts of groups are enhancing a woman's right to choose, not hindering it.
I'd say that this would be a very hard separation for just about any MP with a strong religious conviction – how would it be possible to separate their ethical beliefs (for example against abortion) from their duty as an MP – especially on conscience vote issues?
For example, Mahuta and Ruwhare both voted against NZ abortion reform. I don't hold this against them – this is no doubt a strongly held personal opinion, on a conscience vote issue.
But it's an example of the way in which it is effectively impossible for any MP to separate personal conviction, especially on moral or ethical issues, from their day job.
Ethical beliefs are part of any MP – and need to be taken into consideration when voting for that person. That's made explicit in at least one electorate where a preferred candidate is endorsed by the Ratana Church.
TBH, I strongly doubt Luxon has sufficient influence over the National policy formation to sway it in any significant way. He doesn't have IMO a lot of personal support within the party – and is predominantly interested in winning, rather than changing the moral structure of NZ society.
But that's why we have conscience votes. So that MPs *can be allowed to not have to separate off their values. I'm talking about outside of conscience votes, what happens in Cabinet and caucus, the policy priorities of the MP and so on. Did BE work on legislation that would be considered aligned with his religious views?
I hope you are right about Luxon, but I think it's a mistake for NZ to assume we are immune to a rise in religious fundamentalism in NZ politics.
Oh common nothing wrong with a bit of tongue in cheek hyperbole,
The bigger worry is cappin luxon is that slow he walked straight into the trap.
We're certainly in a dystopian reality, with little measurable action on our main social issues and mass low quality immigration having resumed to further stress our housing and infrastructure, all the while pushing climate targets further and further out of reach.
National will do nothing positive about these – the prescription charges are merely indicative of their Austerity and Bust approach to governance.
Interesting to see a former PM demonstrating his "being economical with the truth" skills.
This latest episode trying to cover for his business partner and son. Apparently Max was in potentially serious trouble with the law. When Stuff contacted Joky Hen he initially denied any involvement or contact with the ministry. Then his conscience got the better of him and he advised the paper that he had in fact got involved. Key's problem however is the long and convoluted explanation of events shows that (having had time to think and realising that further shit may hit the fan), he is desperately trying to make things right.
I recall that someone on here kept a log of the times the former PM bent the truth or straight out lied (remember the Transrail shares). So here's another one to chalk up to the honourable knight.
What are you talking about and what exactly is the problem, in your view?
I read the following article in Stuff and I didn’t even raise an eyebrow about Key Sr’s involvement:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300893562/how-can-i-help-expm-sir-john-key-called-ministry-of-justice-over-sons-podcast-which-broke-suicide-law
Yeah I have just reread your link and my comment – Key's initial denial and then convoluted description of events. And as for "higherstandards" comment – you are perhaps deluded if you think the former PM is not still floating around behind the scenes. And just like "Rob's Mob", the likes of bowling club lounges still revere him as the messiah and long for his return.
I recall that someone on here kept a log of the times the former PM bent the truth or straight out lied…
That was 'blip' logie97. Sadly he disappeared into the ether some years ago. He was a valuable contributor.
""That was 'blip' logie97. Sadly he disappeared into the ether some years ago""
Yip it's one thing that saddens me about hanging round at a blog, virtual freinds/acquaintances dissappear.
All 133 of them.
https://thestandard.org.nz/the-great-big-list-of-john-keys-big-fat-lies-updated/
https://thestandard.org.nz/author/blip/
Good grief past PMs still living rent free in the heads of political tragics years after they have exited politics ….all very sad.
Get out and enjoy the weather before the rain comes again.