Open mike 05/10/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, October 5th, 2013 - 110 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy). Step right up to the mike…

110 comments on “Open mike 05/10/2013 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    5 October 2013 at 6:43 am

    “This is fast becoming the defining issue in Auckland’s election and it is a good one. It might seem trivial beside long-term population plans, housing densities and commuter rail schemes”

    Is John Roughan New Zealand’s worst journalist?
    “The great berm debate ”
    Un.believable.

    The Herald is shite.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11134937

  2. Jenny 2
    5 October 2013 at 7:29 am

    Kiss your/our money goodbye.

    Solid Energy says it will need a three-year turnaround in international coal prices if it is to recover, as it revealed a $335.4 million loss and warned of more losses to come…..

    HAMISH RUTHERFORD Fairfax NZ news Oct. 5, 2013

    On the very eve of latest IPCC report:
    In New Zealand…..
    To carry out a major act of corporate welfare,
    An international treaty is broken,
    A major climate crime is committed,
    Hundreds of jobs in the renewable sector are held up.

    Honour the Majuro Declaration

    Cancel the Bail Out

    Shut Down Solid Energy

    Restart Rauauru Ma Raki

  3. tc 3
    5 October 2013 at 8:05 am

    Why arent freeview satelitte and UHF content identical, we have city freeview and rural so free depends on where you live as satellite has less than UHF, isnt is meant to be kiwi for tv.

    • karol 3.1
      5 October 2013 at 8:08 am

      Do UHF aerials not work to receive Freeview in rural areas?

      Edit: OK explained here. The satellites can’t carry the same amount of channels as the UHF terrestrial system of broadcast. And UHF signals have a limited range.

  4. stever 4
    5 October 2013 at 8:23 am

    This is a brilliant interview of Glenn Greenwald (NSA, GCHQ, 5 Eyes-exposing journalist, working on the Snowden material).

    A good illustration of a journalist (Greenwald) being interviewed by a “journalist” (Wark). Still Wark is a million times better than anyone I’ve ever seen here in NZ 🙁

  5. Jenny 5
    5 October 2013 at 8:34 am

    ‘

    Greens slam Solid Energy Bail Out
    (Labour stays silent)*

    “The National Government need to take responsibility for their mismanagement of Solid Energy and cut their losses,” said Mr Hughes.

    “The banks that made risky loans to Solid Energy need to bear the cost of their mistakes.

    “Coal is not going to be the fuel of our future if we are to stabilise our climate.

    “New Zealanders and Solid Energy workers need a just transition into more sustainable jobs – jobs that don’t fry the planet.

    Gareth Hughes’ Press statement 01 Oct. 2013

    *As does every single Standard author to date

    • Colonial Viper 5.1
      5 October 2013 at 8:47 am

      Good of you to point out what you think The Standard authors should be writing about.

    • karol 5.2
      5 October 2013 at 9:04 am

      Jenny, get off your soap box. So keen to point out you know better than everyone else. There’s been too many issues and too little time for us voluntary authors.

      There’s been posts of climate change, and, for me, issues of poverty and people struggling to survive NOW! need significant attention.

      An author has been working on a draft of a solid energy post. Now I’ve gotta get to work.
      Don’t tell us what we have to spend our hard-pressed time on. And still using your bullying tactics I see.

      • weka 5.2.1
        5 October 2013 at 9:24 am

        +100

      • Jenny 5.2.2
        5 October 2013 at 10:20 pm

        An author has been working on a draft of a solid energy post.

        karol

        Great stuff karol, I can’t wait to see it. I imagine that they will not be having an easy time.

        Will they be for it Like Labour, or against it like the Greens?

    • Rogue Trooper 5.3
      5 October 2013 at 10:47 am

      US draws ahead of Russia and Saudi Arabia
      http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/04/us-oil-natural-gas-production-russia-saudi-arabia?
      as worlds top FOSSIL FUEL extractor

    • bad12 5.4
      5 October 2013 at 12:26 pm

      Jenny, if you care to look,(past the end of your nose that is), you will find that Labour’s Clayton Cosgrove had plenty to say about Solid Energy and it’s bailout…

      • Jenny 5.4.1
        5 October 2013 at 10:15 pm

        I wouldn’t say it was plenty. But it was plenty cryptic. But I think we can safely take it as read, 12, that Clayton Cosgrove and the Labour Party would have done the same thing, if not more, to subsidise Solid Energy’s continued needless destruction of the climate.

    • QoT 5.5
      5 October 2013 at 1:29 pm

      You are a fucking liar, Jenny.

      Clayton Cosgrove quoted in Radio NZ on 1 October:

      “The Labour Party said taxpayers were footing the bill for Solid Energy’s restructure, when it was the Government’s fault that the state coal miner was in financial trouble.

      Labour’s Clayton Cosgrove said National was warned time and again that Solid Energy was in trouble, and ministers refused to listen and took no action.

      He said the deal announced on Tuesday was too little too late.”

      And on TV3’s website today:

      Labour’s state owned enterprises spokesman, Clayton Cosgrove, says the company is a mess.

      “It took a $335M hit, earnings were down 78 percent, it paid $13M in redundancy to white collar corporate staff and had to write off $150M in abandoned projects,” he said.

      “The public needs answers to how that happened.”

      • weka 5.5.1
        5 October 2013 at 4:53 pm

        Interesting switch from slandering the Green Party to slandering Labour.

      • Jenny 5.5.2
        5 October 2013 at 10:01 pm

        Thank you for this QoT I followed your links:

        Ged O’Connel of the EPMU stated the obvious, and said that with out the bail out, Solid Energy “would be likely to close down.”

        From this I think we can take it that Ged O’Connel and the EPMU support the bail out.

        Gareth Hughes said that the National Government should “cut their losses” and the “Solid Energy workers need a just transition into more sustainable jobs – that don’t fry the planet.”

        From this we can take it that Gareth Hughes and the Green party condemn the bailout.

        Clayton Cosgrove said the deal “was too little too late.”*

        Hmmm. What does this mean?

        If you take Clayton Cosgrove’s words literally, then Labour would have given Solid Energy more, sooner.

        This is probably not what Clayton Cosgrove literally meant. But I think it can be taken, that Clayton Cosgrove and the Labour Party support the bail out.

        That Labour support this chilling climate crime, that Labour coldly support the flouting of both the letter and the intent of the recently signed up to Majuro Declaration, and that Labour support the moth balling of the Rauauru Ma Raki project in favour of coal.

        I think I can see why the authors at The Standard might have a problem commenting on this.

        *Yes I did miss this. But that is not the same as being a “fucking liar” as you continually accuse me of QoT.

        • Colonial Viper 5.5.2.1
          5 October 2013 at 10:04 pm

          Being a religious fundamentalist and fanatic suits you. Perhaps you envision yourself leading some kind of Climate Change Inquisition?

          • adam 5.5.2.1.1
            5 October 2013 at 10:23 pm

            Ah colonial this is how you work abuse and yell the loudest to get your way. Rhetoric not your strong point – so you just a bully.

          • Jenny 5.5.2.1.2
            5 October 2013 at 11:03 pm

            Perhaps you envision yourself leading some kind of Climate Change Inquisition?

            Colonial Viper

            CV politics is all about pressure. To some on the receiving end of this pressure, it may feel like torture. But I assure you, it is not, it is just the psychic pain of ideologies clashing. As such it is subjective. Break on through to the other side, and you will feel much better.

            • Colonial Viper 5.5.2.1.2.1
              5 October 2013 at 11:05 pm

              You are well on the way to constructing your religion. Complete with the promise of both philosophical and ideological transformation. Congratulations.

              • Jenny …
                5 October 2013 at 11:18 pm

                I don’t think it counts as a religion if I am the only one it. That is unless you are willing to confess your sins and convert.

  6. North 6
    5 October 2013 at 8:34 am

    Judith Collins is not happy to listen to submissions as to cause and effect:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11135045

    This redoubles the arrogant, hubristic, “stroke-of-the-pen” approach employed by her predecessor in Justice Simon Power.

    The formula goes like this: scandalise and blame the practitioners, cement in the uninformed public mind a ghastly culpability, open illusory “discussion” and rapidly close it, then by stroke-of-the-pen do exactly what was intended to be done in the first place.

    The precedent is seen in Legal Aid: commission at God knows what cost the “well respected senior civil servant” (Dame Margaret Bazley) to lend the illustrious name to an already written fictitious report based in anecdote and gossip. This becomes The Bible. Use it to scandalise legal aid practitioners as a class. Engage sham discussion then by stoke-of-the-pen do what was always intended to be done. Cynical, manipulative, disingenuous framing of the debate.

    Who suffers ? It’s the The Poor that’s whom. And in the bigger picture the very ethos of Justice in New Zealand. It’s bloody lucky for Power and Collins that the Judiciary is generally constrained to bite its tongue. Well, not all of its members –

    Justice Andrew Tipping’s final sitting – speech

    Retiring Supreme Court Justice Andrew Tipping has questioned whether New Zealand’s current legal aid system is consistent with the observance of fundamental rights under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990.

    In a speech at his final Supreme Court sitting on 17 August 2012, Sir Andrew reflected on major legal developments over his 50 years as a law student, practitioner and judge, as well as issues relating to the future of the legal system and its administration.

    Considering problems in the legal aid system, he suggested “re-examining how legal aid should be delivered.”

    “My concern is that the solution those genuine problems received resembled the use of a sledgehammer to crack a nut,” he said.

    The scope of legal aid and the rates of remuneration were now at a level that seriously risked compromising the delivery of justice, at least in some fields.

    Sir Andrew asked whether the current legal aid system was consistent with the observance of these fundamental rights under section 24(d) and section 25(h) of the Bill of Rights, as well as whether the cuts to legal aid would actually save tax payer money.

    “The irony is that the money saved by not granting legal aid is very often overtaken by corresponding, if not greater costs being incurred elsewhere. I refer to the extra work needed by the registry staff and the Judges themselves when an appellant is unrepresented. It is a false economy that we seem to be pursuing,” he said.

    He also reflected on the relationship between the Ministry of Justice and the Judiciary and how it should be described as one of “mutual co-operation” rather than partnership. This separation was necessary to maintain separation and balance of powers.

    “Judges are appointed to judge and Ministry staff are appointed to administer the Courts and provide the infrastructure necessary to enable the Judges to discharge their judicial responsibilities,” Sir Andrew said.

    “The concept of partnership risks a failure to recognise the necessary separation of powers.

    “I must say that in my time as a Judge I have noticed an increasing lack of understanding and appreciation of the role of the higher courts as the third branch of government.”

    This from the Law Society website. Google “Justice Andrew Tipping – Final Sitting”

  7. Jenny 7
    5 October 2013 at 8:39 am

    A week in politics is a long time. (Especially, if you are ignoring climate change).

  8. BrucetheMoose 8
    5 October 2013 at 9:05 am

    Somebody needs to tell this government to get with the times. Fascism is so last century.

  9. Linz 9
    5 October 2013 at 9:29 am

    One for Tau:
    ‘During the second month of nursing school, our professor gave us a pop quiz. I was a conscientious student and had breezed through the questions, until I read the last one: What is the first name of the woman who cleans the school?
    Surely this was some kind of joke. I had seen the cleaning woman several times. She was tall, dark-haired and in her fifties, but how would I know her name? I handed in my paper, leaving the last question blank.
    Before the class ended, one student asked if the last question would count toward our quiz grade. ‘Absolutely,’ said the professor. ‘In your careers you will meet many people. All are significant. They deserve your attention and care, even if all you do is smile and say hello.’
    I’ve never forgotten that lesson. I also learned her name was Dorothy.’ – Joanne C. Jones

  10. tc 10
    5 October 2013 at 9:31 am

    Thanks karol, so 18 channels available, 6 each to tvnz, mediawonks neither being fully used. 6 for the rest, one of which is sky owned prime.

    A wasted allocation and aljazerra will stay UHF, what a craptacular outcome and no prizes for guessing how the VHF spectrum sellout will pan out.

    Free sports channell only to those who can receive a UHF signal, west coast and major rural sectors pretty much screwed.

    • ianmac 10.1
      5 October 2013 at 10:07 am

      In our provincial town a UHF aerial will no longer work. A dish is compulsory. And we do not get all the channels available elsewhere on Freeview. Still. Not much to see anyway.

      • tc 10.1.1
        5 October 2013 at 11:27 am

        Paltry as it may be, it should at least be consistent across both delivery mechanisms. Im sure the rural community would appreciate the free sport and aljazerra.

  11. Chooky 11
    5 October 2013 at 10:00 am

    As John Key’s and Nact’s only hope of winning the 2014 election would seem to be with Winston Peters ( and NZF) as a coalition partner

    …the Left should be very aware that it will be of number one importance in Key and Nacts eyes that a unbridgable wedge is driven between Winston Peters( and his past and present supporters) and the Left.

    What will the Nact secret spinners and strategists try and do?… given the fact that Winston hates many of their policies and has opposed them vehemently…eg.

    1)..Sale of State Assets
    2)..the GCSB bill
    3) …sale of NZ land and housing to foreigners
    4)….also Winston worked very well with Helen Clark and helped her form the last Labour govt of her term in office

    I suggest that the secret planners, strategists and spinners will try and drive a huge wedge between the Greens and Winston ….and they will try and drive a wedge between Labour and Winston ….and discredit and undermine anyone on the Left who defends Winston ….as being irrational, superficial, or not on the Left….( dont fall into their traps)

    Given the crucial importance of Winston (NZF) to Key in forming a coalition to win the 2014 election!…LOOK VERY CLOSELY AT HOW NACT WILL WANT TO PLAY THIS

    • The Al1en 11.1
      5 October 2013 at 10:09 am

      The best option is to get your friends and family out to vote Labour and/or Green so they can govern alone without NZ first and relying on flakey minor extremist parties.

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1
        5 October 2013 at 11:45 am

        True, but I think that a back up plan is needed, as Winston’s ability to engage the electorate is not to be underestimated.

        There is a pretty good chance (say 1/3 or higher) that LAB/GR will need NZF next year.

        • The Al1en 11.1.1.1
          5 October 2013 at 1:40 pm

          As I’ve said before, I’d rather have a 5% Winston in government than the 1% extremists left wing.

          Still, fingers crossed Labour and the Greens can get a working majority and can choose to leave all the cabs on the rank.

          • weka 11.1.1.1.1
            5 October 2013 at 4:56 pm

            Even if that 5% Winston supports the formation of a third term NACT govt? Seriously?

            “There is a pretty good chance (say 1/3 or higher) that LAB/GR will need NZF next year.”

            Yes, and shouldn’t the left be talking about this and what how it can be done?

            • The Al1en 11.1.1.1.1.1
              5 October 2013 at 5:14 pm

              “Even if that 5% Winston supports the formation of a third term NACT govt? Seriously?”

              Obviously not, but for the sake of clarity, I’d rather have a 5% Winston in a Lab/Green government than rely on the 1% extremist left wing.

              “Yes, and shouldn’t the left be talking about this and what how it can be done?”

              Off you go then. What do you suggest other than what I wrote in 11.1?

              • weka …
                5 October 2013 at 7:30 pm

                “Obviously not, but for the sake of clarity, I’d rather have a 5% Winston in a Lab/Green government than rely on the 1% extremist left wing.”

                Yes, and sorry to keep banging on about it, but what makes you think that there is a choice between a 5% Winston left and a 5% Winston right?

                ““Yes, and shouldn’t the left be talking about this and what how it can be done?”

                Off you go then. What do you suggest other than what I wrote in 11.1?”

                Very good advice I thought. I was meaning that the left also needs to get to grips with a 5% Winston and what that means at and after the next election. Mostly I see people either hoping that L/GP have enough to govern without NZF (or that NZF fails the 5%), or they just ignore the problem – see most posts and comments on Roy Morgan polls. In the first instance getting past the denial would be good 😉

                • The Al1en …
                  5 October 2013 at 7:45 pm

                  Sure there’s a chance Winston could go Nat, so I agree his seats and support shouldn’t be taken for granted, not that I’ve read anyone on here doing that.
                  I also don’t know anyone who votes for him, but if I did, and knew they wanted out from this key Government, I’d advise them to vote Labour and/or Green, just in case. There’s not really much else one can do about it, and certainly not until much closer to election time.

                  Gut feeling if they break the threshold, he’s getting a ministerial BMW whatever, so I reckon it’s down to who he dislikes most, Key or the Greens. At this time, I’d say Key, but like the poll result, it’d only be a guess.

                  I don’t fear him being in a Lab/Green cabinet because I think DC is capable of keeping him in check like HC did, plus he’ll be far too busy fighting off the ‘investigative’ journos from Campbell live. 😀

                  • weka …
                    5 October 2013 at 8:25 pm

                    I’m not assuming that Key will be PM this time next year. And I would like to see some indication of how Labour and the GP will negotiate with him. In the meantime, some considered speculation would be go.

                    Such as,

                    “I don’t fear him being in a Lab/Green cabinet because I think DC is capable of keeping him in check like HC did, plus he’ll be far too busy fighting off the ‘investigative’ journos from Campbell live. :grin:”

                    🙂

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      5 October 2013 at 8:31 pm

                      Norman, Turei, Cunliffe, Parker and Peters are going to have to sit in a room and knock their heads together. That’s about what it is going to boil down to trying to get a deal together IMO.

                    • weka …
                      5 October 2013 at 8:35 pm

                      “Norman, Turei, Cunliffe, Parker and Peters are going to have to sit in a room and knock their heads together. That’s about what it is going to boil down to trying to get a deal together IMO.”

                      Ok, we should just sit back and let them get on with it then.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      5 October 2013 at 8:39 pm

                      Not sure if you are being facetious or not. I will say that at this level of politics, work is done via a mix of the quality of personal relationships between the leaders, and the political realities presented by the voters.

                    • weka …
                      5 October 2013 at 9:15 pm

                      I was being sarcastic.

                      Are you saying that there is no necessity to talk about it?

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      5 October 2013 at 9:50 pm

                      I think that talk about maximising the LAB/GR vote is the most productive topic.

                  • Chooky …
                    5 October 2013 at 8:32 pm

                    +1 Allen……I am a Green voter by inclination ( despite Weka also being there lol)….but I have voted for Winston strategically, when I thought Labour and the Left couldn’t get in without him in coalition

                    Winston is entering the retirement era of his career…I don’t think he is going to want to go down with the public odium as a BETRAYER of everything he has stood for in this term ….in opposition to John Key’s NAct policies(….ie. sale of Sate Assets, GCSB Bill, foreign ownership of NZ land and houses etc)…He has been here before with a coalition with National which he destroyed and brought down the Nat govt , and it almost destroyed him politically

                    If Labour and the Greens can not win alone (which I hope they do)…..I think if Peters makes the threshold for NZF there is a good chance he would be amenable to coalition with the ‘Left’ ( rather than with NAct) if he was offered Foreign Affairs (a position inwhich he excelled under Helen Clark)…..however he would have to agree to not interfere with the Greens in coalition with Labour and in cabinet ( I wonder if some agreement on this cant be reached beforehand)

                    I could be quite wrong on this…he may choose National …but it would be at considerable cost to his mana…..and legacy….and would probably be ruinous to National

                    As the election gets closer …it remains to be seen 1)what Winston’s attitude is towards the Greens ( they are now an established party and are mainstream internationally)….2) who is going to make what overtures between Labour and NZF in the event of the Left needing him …. and 3) what Key’s spinners and strategists are going to do about this in the meantime…my guess is that they will be getting DESPERATE

                    • The Al1en …
                      5 October 2013 at 10:09 pm

                      Compared to the last foregone conclusion, this election, despite media vested interests, is going to be worth watching all the way to the wire, unless of course the racist paul henry is a panelist again.

            • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.1.1.2
              5 October 2013 at 5:45 pm

              Weka. You’re taking on the same undemocratic attitude as National did in deciding that Winston was history and needed to be pushed out of Parliament at any cost.

              The problem isn’t Winston. It’s Key and it is National.

              • weka …
                5 October 2013 at 7:35 pm

                “You’re taking on the same undemocratic attitude as National did in deciding that Winston was history and needed to be pushed out of Parliament at any cost”

                Actually, I’d like you to point to comments where I have said something like that. Or even where you think I’ve said something that.

                “The problem isn’t Winston. It’s Key and it is National.”

                Even if that were true*, I probably don’t care. As long as Peters remains untrustworthy and unreliable, he’s unreliable and untrustworthy, and a risk. If people who support Peters want to take the conversation further (about how to deal with that) all the good. But at the moment I see alot of denial or wishful thinking, and not much smart analysis or discussion of strategy.

                *which it’s not. If Key goes, and NZF support the formation of a third term NACT govt, how is Peters not part of the problem? Seriously, I’ve love to understand how you see that.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  5 October 2013 at 7:42 pm

                  If people who support Peters want to take the conversation further (about how to deal with that) all the good. But at the moment I see alot of denial or wishful thinking, and not much smart analysis or discussion of strategy.

                  I’m all for smart electoral strategy, but the way I figure it, you’re just one step from intellectually green lighting an organised campaign to take Winston Peters/NZF down. Which is of course exactly what National decided to do, going into 2008.

                  Is LAB/GR having to rely on an unreliable Winston a real risk. Yes it is. I don’t see how alienating him now is any smarter a strategy for Labour/Greens, as that would guarantee him going with the National Party post 2014.

                  • weka …
                    5 October 2013 at 8:22 pm

                    “I’m all for smart electoral strategy, but the way I figure it, you’re just one step from intellectually green lighting an organised campaign to take Winston Peters/NZF down.”

                    I’d still like you to post a link to where I have said that. Chooky thinks the same about me, but at the least you could actually ask, instead of assuming.

                    I think when I say “Peters is untrustworthy and unreliable” or “I think the country would be better off without him in parliament*”, you follow a logical line that exists in your head, but not in mine. I also think the left has a problem if I am right: how to reconcile Peters’ unreliability with a strategy other than trying to get rid of him. That’s complex and I don’t see much, if any, discussion on this yet. That’s what I’m getting at. It’s like everyone is just happy to sit and wait and see what happens (and it’s possible that that is the only thing that can be done). I’d like to see at least an attempt to solve the problem.

                    *which is an expression of my personal antipathy towards the man, not a statement of intent. If/when we get to having a conversation about how it would work, I’ll try an reign in my distaste.

              • Chooky …
                6 October 2013 at 9:40 am

                @ CV…+100%

                “Norman, Turei, Cunliffe, Parker and Peters are going to have to sit in a room and knock their heads together. That’s about what it is going to boil down to trying to get a deal together IMO.”

                To keep expressing antipathy towards Winston Peters (as Weka is doing… and therefore trying to pre-exclude him from any possible but necessary inclusion in a Left coalition ) leading up to the 2014 election, is counterproductive in the extreme.

                ….It only plays into the hands of John Key’s desperate strategists ….whose only chance of winning the 2014 election is if Peters crosses the electoral threshold and joins Nact in coalition

                …it is in Key’s interests if Weka’s strategy pre-excludes Winston and NZF from a Left coalition ( however Weka does not speak for all the Greens or all NZers)

                • weka …
                  7 October 2013 at 10:14 am

                  How does my antipathy towards Peters preclude L/GP going into coalition with NZF? That’s just daft, in the extreme. Are you suggesting that people on the left that have valid critique of Peters/NZF should shut the fuck up? Because that’s what your comment sounded like.

                  And please don’t go down the track of trying to marginalise by comments by stating that I don’t speak for all GP members. Of course I fucking don’t, and nothing I’ve said comes even close to suggesting that. I’m just going to put this down to more of your unusual debating style, but I don’t take kindly to that kind of shit.

                  Anyhoo… here’s how I see it. Peters IS problematic for the left. It’s better if we are honest about what that means and I think it bears discussing at the strategic level. The other options presented in this discussion are CVs, who reckons we can trust Turei/Norman, Cunliffe and Peters to sort it out. Or your view, which is a confusing mix of Peters is great and trustworthy and you really hope he doesn’t go with NACT and you would prefer a L/GP coalition without him, but you think he is essential to the left too and if needed he would be happy to just be foreign affairs minister and leave L/GP to get on with it, so we should…. not sure what exactly, other than trust Peters with all that.

                  Myself, I think the best thing for NZ would be a clean, NZF-free coalition govt. It will be interesting to see if the NZF left wing swing voters switch to Labour or not. But it’s likely (30% was CV’s bet) that L/GP will have to negotiate with NZF to form govt, and that presents complexities. I’d like to see those discussed before the next election, not least because a whole bunch of people vote strategically and Peters would be a crucial factor in that decision. I also note that Peters is well known for NOT stating before an election what he will do after an election, and this makes it even more complex.

          • Paul 11.1.1.1.2
            5 October 2013 at 5:18 pm

            Good try.
            The extremists are actually on the right.
            Labour is barely left of centre if you enter their policies on the political compass website.
            http://www.politicalcompass.org/
            No doubt you and Attila would share similar right wing authoritarian views on this site.

            • The Al1en 11.1.1.1.2.1
              5 October 2013 at 5:20 pm

              I’m not right wing, far from it, so prove I am or piss off with the Atilla bullshit. 😉
              I’m sure this site can accommodate both the ultras and the mainstream.

              There are extremists on all sides of the political spectrum. Only a fool would deny there isn’t, or an extremist who resents the tag.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                5 October 2013 at 5:43 pm

                Is it the left extremists that are extreme or is it that society has become right extreme and that the so called left extremists only appear extreme to those that sit in the so called centre?

                • Paul …
                  5 October 2013 at 5:50 pm

                  Go on the political website and you’ll see where the British Labour Party and the US Democrats are.
                  Both notably right wing and authoritarian.
                  My views would have been quite centrist – left of centre – in the 1970s and are now considered extreme left by Messrs Key and Joyce..

            • The Al1en 11.1.1.1.2.2
              5 October 2013 at 5:30 pm

              “No doubt you and Attila would share similar right wing authoritarian views on this site.”

              No, I’m happy to quote from the site ‘about’ link.

              “We come from a variety of backgrounds and our political views don’t always match up but it’d be fair to say that all of us share a commitment to the values and principles that underpin the broad labour movement and we hope that perspective will come through strongly as you read the blog.”

  12. Herodotus 12
    5 October 2013 at 10:11 am

    Running on iOS 7 on a iPhone.
    How am I able to make a response to a comment, as all that happens is that the comment falls to the bottom ?

    • joe90 13.1
      5 October 2013 at 7:22 pm

      So organised crime and terrorists and sexual predators are allowed be as anonymous as they want because TOR users have an absolute right to privacy?.

      • Colonial Viper 13.1.1
        5 October 2013 at 7:49 pm

        So organised crime, terrorists and sexual predators are good excuses for use in stripping back all our privacy protections and civil liberties?

      • joe90 13.1.2
        5 October 2013 at 8:03 pm

        Does your right to privacy trump all?

        • Colonial Viper 13.1.2.1
          5 October 2013 at 8:08 pm

          That’s an odd question to ask, given that the last 5 months of Edward Snowden revelations have shown that the right to privacy is a 99% joke.

        • joe90 13.1.2.2
          5 October 2013 at 8:29 pm

          Indeed, there’s no disputing that the Snowdon revelations have done us all a favour by reminding us that as users our expectations of privacy have been hopelessly naive but again, where’s the line in the sand – you and I – we’re thoroughly decent fellows so we’re entitled to privacy?

          • Colonial Viper 13.1.2.2.1
            5 October 2013 at 10:12 pm

            Civil liberties are a brake on the powers exercised by government and its agents. Privacy is not just a nice to have, it is critical to the function of a democracy and a society.

            The law has many protocols in place to safeguard privacy yet balance the need for law enforcement and investigation. These protocols have been developed over many decades.

            So what makes you think that the last of our legal protections as citizens should be stripped? Do you trust this government and all future governments that much?

  15. Foreign Waka 15
    5 October 2013 at 10:21 am

    The Swiss are going for a referendum on a universal income. Interesting in the Euro Zone where so many will applaud this as a rethink of what is perceived as work especially with the ever increasing “outsourcing” to automated processes. Of cause there are also many will not agree calling it an invitation to be lazy.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/04/us-swiss-pay-idUSBRE9930O620131004

    • ianmac 15.1
      5 October 2013 at 10:40 am

      Universal Income!
      That is what Gareth Morgan was advocating. Every adult would receive about $2,000 per month. This would end all Social Welfare payments and in NZ it would put Paula Bennett out of a job. Well worth exploring Foreign Waka!

  16. Belladonna 16
    5 October 2013 at 10:25 am

    It seems that many people havent received their voting papers for Local Body Elections. I havent received mine yet and time is rapidly running out. This is just not good enough and seems a little strange to me. Hopefully there are a few blips in the system not thousands!

  17. muzza 17
    5 October 2013 at 10:51 am

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_(Israel)

    The early mentions of the term hasbara in English mainstream print media[12] date from the late 1970s and describe hasbara as “overseas image-building.”[13] According to The Washington Post, this work “is called hasbara when the purpose is to reshape public opinion abroad.”[14] In the early 1980s, hasbara was defined as a “public relations campaign,”[15] In Newsweek it was described as “explaining.”[16] In 1986, the New York Times reported that a program for “communicating defense goals” was started in the late 1970s, and a 1984 implementation of a “Hasbara Project” to “train foreign-service officers in communications by placing them with American companies

    The Israel Citizens Information Council (ICIC) says its purpose is “to assist efforts to explain Israeli life from the vantage point of the average Israeli citizen. Towards that end, the ICIC enlists Israelis from all walks of life to participate in its various projects

    No chance of psy-op scope creep, eh!

    • Murray Olsen 17.1
      5 October 2013 at 4:13 pm

      The passion with which the state of Israel is defended in the media and the number of fervent internet defenders certainly make it look as if something organised is happening.

  18. Rogue Trooper 18
    5 October 2013 at 11:03 am

    China Invests 50B (in three months) in Energy and Infrastructure
    http://www.energytribune.com/79382/china-invests-billions-in-asia-energy-deals?#sthash.cuNEEAnN.dpbs
    In the ‘Stans

    US Shutdown
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/10357619/US-government-shutdown-the-key-figures.html
    The ‘Key’ Figures
    (and Lockheed Martin to furlough 3000 employees). and Five further unintended consequences
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/04/us-shutdown-jobs-debt-borders?

  19. Rogue Trooper 19
    5 October 2013 at 11:06 am

    and
    FUKUSHIMA
    that’s
    Fukushima

  20. Penny Bright 20
    5 October 2013 at 12:01 pm

    FYI

    PROTEST AGAINST THIS NATIONAL GOVERNMENT!

    TODAY: Saturday 5 October 2013

    Auckland: 1pm
    Aotea Square

    https://www.facebook.com/events/166849763502101/permalink/184675151719562/

    The National Government of NZ has spent the last 5 years predominantly doing little more than attacking and destroying your freedom and rights.

    From the TransPacific Partnership deals, Deep Sea Oil Drilling/Fracking and the anti-protest laws, the Privatisation of our State Assets including State Housing Sales, the Punitive Welfare Reforms, and the divestment in public health.

    Education Reform including the introduction of National Standards, and the creation of Charter Schools. Removal of Employment Rights, regressive tax and banking, a lack of investment in public transport and renewable energy sources and giving over more power to the GCSB to be allowed to spy on us all indiscriminately

    … The neo-liberalist, right-wing National Government is not serving the best interests of the people and needs to go! This Nationwide Day of Action Against the National Government is to let them known we want them gone!

    _______________________________________________________

    The speakers are confirmed for the Nationwide Day of Action Against The National Governernment!
    1pm Aotea Square in Auckland MC’d by Talk Show host and NZ Alternative Media man Vinny Eastwood

    https://www.facebook.com/events/166849763502101/

    6 speakers with 5 mins each to lay out some hard hitting facts.

    Paul Carruthers: Exposing corruption in The National Government during the Alan Hubbard Saga (background here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT1bevgQ1gM) Paul has the flu and will not be able to attend but a statement from him will be read out on the day

    Penny Bright: Teaching us about the corrupt Council for Auckland and The National Govt Agenda to privatize and sell out the city and nation to corporate interests with the TPPA (background here:http://youtu.be/ccw_1SngVlM?t=2m51s)

    Sue Henry: Covering the privatization of state housing and the massive corruption amid Glen Innes trying to prevent their community being demolished (background here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fCJBsQXtYI)

    Russell Malcolm: 10 years ago he got the whole rodney council (indluding the mayor) fired for corruption! He recently tried to do it again and was arrested without charge (5 weeks till the 2008 election) and had his bail conditions (including prohibited from contacting any NZ minister or using the internet) by John Key himself! (background here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov_kXEU6vkc)

    Kiri Campbell: Mother of 8 who made an incredible withdrawal of $15 million from TSB bank just to prove the banking system is so corrupt that it can be manipulated and money made up from nothing! She was tried inside a shut down police station and 3 cops tried to break her arm, they weren’t wearing badge numbers, secret police! (Background here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6eaaOB91VM)

    Vincent Ross Siemer: The countries most credible judicial watchdog who is going to reveal that the National Government is trying to prevent investigation into court corruption during their term! (full story here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4ip9kGMwg)

    Marama Davidson: Speaking to the Welfare reforms under National how the government is attacking our most vulnerable and disadvantaged. (back story http://youtu.be/1JcZmSmDoLY?t=1h1m18s)

  21. Rogue Trooper 21
    5 October 2013 at 12:07 pm

    Do not be surprised , brother, that the world hates you. -1 John 3:13
    http://www.ibtimes.com/here-are-two-reasons-why-ongoing-global-persecution-christians-not-trending-1414566

  22. Rogue Trooper 22
    5 October 2013 at 12:45 pm

    And…10 Easy things to make life happier (backed by science)
    http://www.altering-perspectives.com/2013/10/10-easy-things-that-will-make-you.html

    • weka 22.1
      5 October 2013 at 7:39 pm

      There’s some good things on that list 🙂 but I had to laugh at this

      “5. Go outside – happiness is maximized at 13.9°C”

      I think my happiness maximises at about 20C+ 😉

  23. fender 23
    5 October 2013 at 2:12 pm

    That’s strange, NZ Power hasn’t been introduced yet. Key said it was NZ Power that would cause blackouts…

  24. joe90 24
    5 October 2013 at 5:46 pm

    Ross Ulbricht and his ” Randian yawp” – beautiful.

    Now, my goals have shifted. I want to use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of coercion and agression (sic) amongst mankind. Just as slavery has been abolished most everywhere, I believe violence, coercion and all forms of force by one person over another can come to an end. The most widespread and systemic use of force is amongst institutions and governments, so this is my current point of effort. The best way to change a government is to change the minds of the governed, however. To that end, I am creating an economic simulation to give people a first-hand experience of what it would be like to live in a world without the systemic use of force.

    That passage would be familiar to anyone who’s ever participated in the online forums where the Internet’s seemingly endless supply of techno-libertarians roam free. A young, technically-competent young man with a hard science or engineering background, issuing his digital Randian yawp: “I’m going Galt, and I’m going to reshape the world!”

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/Backchannels/2013/1004/A-Silk-Road-to-total-freedom

    • Draco T Bastard 24.1
      5 October 2013 at 7:31 pm

      Yeah, as soon as I read that on his LinkedIn page it was: Ah, a libertarian, nope, not surprised that he contracted a couple of hits.

    • locus 25.1
      6 October 2013 at 10:42 am

      Thanks flor the link. A brilliant and sobering commentary.

      I’ve just watched ‘American History X’ and it’s frightening to see how closely the current ‘primal scream’ of the evangelicals and tea partyists echoes Edward Norton’s brilliant and passionate portrayal of Derek Vinyard’s views on the threat of immigrants and blacks to white society

      http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/american_history_x/

      • Rogue Trooper 25.1.1
        6 October 2013 at 11:44 am

        American History X is a very moving, memorable, and sobering movie. (I see Kyle Chapman is a mayoral candidate, for some light relief).

        • Colonial Viper 25.1.1.1
          6 October 2013 at 11:49 am

          An amazing movie. With scenes in it which make me still wince when I recall them.

          • Rogue Trooper 25.1.1.1.1
            6 October 2013 at 12:25 pm

            I will never forget the jaw ‘biting’ the ‘berm’ 😎 Crunch-time. (sometimes ya’ gotta do the business).

          • Rogue Trooper 25.1.1.1.2
            6 October 2013 at 12:32 pm

            btw, a week out from the LBE and there is a record low turnout -3Newz, ranging from 14% of eligible in Auckland to 32% in CHB , yet Colin James identifies the rise of a new localism (parochialism, yet, it has it’s benefits) in response to “the worst central government (power-grab) centralization since the 30’s, or even the change from Provincial Government in the 1800’s”.

            Oh well, Excellent to see the Living Wage movement gaining further traction; if the right, and the wealthy can just get over their sense if entitlement, they’d realize more equity flowing would benefit them as well.

  26. xtasy 26
    6 October 2013 at 4:06 am

    Like so often, late at night, I come across much, and some real “educational” and “informative” stuff. This is worth noting and perhaps looking at by all WINZ clients, especially those worried about medical and work ability assessments:

    http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/15326-hatchet-doctor-exposed-winz-acc-alert-hdc-office-do-cop-out/

    It seems to be getting damned serious what is going on, and this happened even before the last, new absolutely draconian changes came in in mid July this year.

    You better prepare and be aware of what may hit you!!!

  27. xtasy 27
    6 October 2013 at 7:59 am

    Viva Camilla, la Socialista:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q84DTTsKHrs

    El interview interesta, Argentina.

  28. xtasy 28
    6 October 2013 at 8:08 am

    Viva la republica, viva, la libertad, viva nosotros:

  29. xtasy 29
    6 October 2013 at 8:24 am

    El conservativo Paulsen speaks against the shit Chilean Private Education Failure!

    More neo-libs waking up and talking the walk, wow!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2vGW2UH8io

    Progress is here, only el stupidito stick to shit!