Open Mike 07/08/2018

110 comments on “Open Mike 07/08/2018 ”

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1. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 1

   7 August 2018 at 7:07 am

   What a way to start a morning – confirming perhaps what everyone knew (or suspected) about Donald Trump. Although, to be fair, it’s easy to detect a political bias in the psychiatrist’s comments.

   14 minutes.

   We’ve had a sufeit of the Donald, I’m sure, but this analysis is interesting (and frightning!).

   Psychiatrist: Trump Mental Health Urgently Deteriorating
   • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1

     7 August 2018 at 9:08 am

     I wonder how much we think we know is just reiterated propaganda.

     Skip the first five mins and from there you get a very different opinion

     https://youtu.be/0fGuNthLmNQ
   • marty mars 1.2

     7 August 2018 at 9:17 am

     This tactic of using mental health as a weapon is doomed to failure and is very detrimental to suffers of mental health issues.
   • Gosman 1.3

     7 August 2018 at 9:59 am

     This Psychiatrist is breaching the code of ethics around his profession. There is a general agreement that you don’t diagnose mental health conditions in this manner.
     • dukeofurl 1.3.1

       7 August 2018 at 10:39 am

       Its clearly not a clinical diagnosis as Trumps not his patient. But then again Trump seems to write his doctors results anyway- while he was campaigning for President and his White House doctor
     • Draco T Bastard 1.3.2

       7 August 2018 at 2:01 pm

       I’d agree with you – if Trump wasn’t POTUS. People actually do need to know.
   • Jenny 1.4

     7 August 2018 at 11:41 am

     Arguments over Donald Trump’s mental health, or lack of, is irrelevant. (Much as debates over Hitler’s mental health are irrelevant).

     What is relevant, is that tens of millions of rational human beings follow him.

     That tens of millions of American citizens feel that they are not given a voice to their concerns outside of Donald Trump, demonstrates that there is a terrible failure at the heart of our political system. This is lack of voice is most marked on the Left where candidates like Bernie Sanders are seen as beyond the pale and not worthy of mainstream Democratic Party support. Unlike the Republicans, who even against their better judgement, are prepared to hold their noses to support Trump.
     • McFlock 1.4.1

       7 August 2018 at 1:12 pm

       To be fair, I can understand why some dems got pissy about working for the party for years, then Sanders comes parachuting in for the presidential campaign. Just as I can understand why some Sanders supporters were upset that he didn’t get the nomination (FWIW, I think the repugs and their allies would have thrown just as much shit at Sanders as they did at Clinton).

       But you’re right, the leftish side of any overton window seems to tend towards “X is not ideologically sound, therefore is an enemy”, whereas the tories will often make strange bedfellows – religious zealots like Pence supporting someone like Trump, for example.
     • Draco T Bastard 1.4.2

       7 August 2018 at 1:59 pm

       That tens of millions of American citizens feel that they are not given a voice to their concerns outside of Donald Trump, demonstrates that there is a terrible failure at the heart of our political system.

       Which is the result of Representative Democracy which was specifically designed to prevent democracy in the first place and can easily be corrupted by the rich buying out the so-called representatives.

       In other words, Representative Democracy easily becomes an oligarchy/plutocracy – exactly as it was designed.
2. mac1 2

   7 August 2018 at 8:50 am

   Yesterday a psychologist friend at lunch stated that Trump was a narcissist rather than a psychopath or a sociopath though he had traits of those disorders.

   He sent me a link in which the issue is discussed.

   https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6dv8zJiggBs

   My friend said that a major difference is that a narcissist can feel shame, which the sociopath/psychopath does not, and shame is what drives a good deal of Trump’s actions. He caves in when he meets a strong leader and later is shamed to feel that he had been bested.

   How’s that for an explanation of his volte-faces and lying?
   • OnceWasTim 2.1

     7 August 2018 at 9:08 am

     Did you ask him if they were mutually exclusive? I’d have thought it possible for sociopaths to be narcissistic. I guess your first sentence gives an indication

     By the way – where is everybody this morning? Are they hanging around at Wellington bus stops waiting to get somewhere?
     • SaveNZ 2.1.1

       7 August 2018 at 9:31 am

       Good joke!
     • mac1 2.1.2

       7 August 2018 at 9:32 am

       I gathered from him that one key difference (no other reference intended) was that the narcissist could feel shame which the psychopath/sociologist did not. Just as Trump as a narcissist shows traits of sociopathy, so too a sociopath could have traits of narcissism. But I’m not a psychologist, though I trust his judgement. He had a huge reputation for his wotk with American wayward youth.

       He also spoke of an experiment in the 1980s in Hawaii where a progressive government put huge resources into lowering the incidence of domestic violence successfully by employing counsellors and assigning them to cases. The state also enforced the compulsory registration of births and the taking of parenting lessons which could be enforced by court order. The rates went down dramatically. When a conservative government which hated the expenditure on this social harm reduction programme saying it was was waste of money returned to power, they withdrew the funding.

       The rates of domestic violence returned towards previous levels.

       I hope that our PM Jacinda Ardern’s control of the Children’s portfolio, and her government, will achieve results similar to Hawaii as reported above. It can be done.
       • Anne 2.1.2.1

         7 August 2018 at 9:54 am

         Just as Trump as a narcissist shows traits of sociopathy, so too a sociopath could have traits of narcissism>

         A woman I once knew was a full blown sociopath and she also exhibited narcissistic traits. People can have several personality disorders at the one time.
       • OnceWasTim 2.1.2.2

         7 August 2018 at 1:01 pm

         Yep – we can get hung up on definitions as the guest post demonstrates:
         https://thestandard.org.nz/guest-post-the-end-of-neoliberalism-what-went-wrong/
         ‘neo’ and ‘posts’ enter into it all when someone detects a minor difference between (say) liberal economic theory and what they think we have today (neo-liberalism). Eras in time with a raft of similarities but not exactery the same (going forward, to coin a term, so-to-speak, as a matter of fact, “ekshully”, ultimately [the latest buzz] and “the truth is”).
         Modernity, Post-modernity (are we now in neo-post-modernity?).
         Liberalism, neo-liberalism, …..post-neo-liberalism.
         politically liberal? socially liberal? economically liberal. Fukyama would have it we’re in post-history (until he realised he’d royally fucked up)

         (And as an aside, part of the neo-libs pervasive agenda – Croz and Txt included – is to corrupt and manipulate the language)
         So as time and understanding progresses, I’d be interested to know @Mac1, whether your friend detects/has detected a growth in either narcissistic and/or sociopathic behaviour as we’ve promoted the idea of individualism/ultra-uber competitiveness/excessive ambition/the “end of history”/and there being “no such thing as society”

         By the way, if t.Rump is merely a narcissist and not a sociopath, what the hell was John Key?
         (Exaggeration maybe in a bid to demonstrate a point. I suspect John Key wasn’t actually bright enough, or socially aware enough to have been a sociopath but don’t be surprised if some of his next generation register on the Roastbuster scale – core!!! they’re goRGEOUS!)
       • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.3

         7 August 2018 at 2:12 pm

         I gathered from him that one key difference (no other reference intended) was that the narcissist could feel shame which the psychopath/sociologist did not. Just as Trump as a narcissist shows traits of sociopathy, so too a sociopath could have traits of narcissism.

         It’s probably more accurate to say that the conditions share some traits but not all. The combination of traits is what makes it one or the other or perhaps both. The doctor above says Trump shows traits of malignant narcissism and then goes on to describe trump having traits of narcissism and sociopathy.

         He also spoke of an experiment in the 1980s in Hawaii where a progressive government put huge resources into lowering the incidence of domestic violence successfully by employing counsellors and assigning them to cases. The state also enforced the compulsory registration of births and the taking of parenting lessons which could be enforced by court order. The rates went down dramatically. When a conservative government which hated the expenditure on this social harm reduction programme saying it was was waste of money returned to power, they withdrew the funding.

         The rates of domestic violence returned towards previous levels.

         That sounds about right. The Left put in place systems that work. The right-wing look at the new figures and declares that the successful program is no longer needed and removes it to ‘save money’ and we see a decline back to previous state where the program was needed. The decline comes with increased costs that are far more than the cost of the successful program.
   • joe90 2.2

     7 August 2018 at 1:23 pm

     Thread.

     I understand narcissistic personality disorder like the back of my hand. Trump is as familiar as an old movie, so let me share some intel.1/— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) July 9, 2017

     https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/884179117192749056
3. SaveNZ 3

   7 August 2018 at 9:07 am

   What do they expect when aged care providers pay $6 – $10 p/h less than other nurses!!

   https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/363509/nz-could-soon-be-short-of-up-to-1000-aged-care-nurses

   The aged care industry seems very profitable, wonder where is the money is going?
   This article from a few years ago, suggests it has been the top performers with annual returns of
   35 per cent in the case of Ryman Healthcare….

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11203208
   • OnceWasTim 3.1

     7 August 2018 at 9:11 am

     Ae!
     And then there’s that other little gem courtesy of the Ministry of Health which classes mentally disabled to be employers of their care givers.
     Do you think we’ll get to know who the hell came up with that scheme?
     • SaveNZ 3.1.1

       7 August 2018 at 9:29 am

       @OnceWasTim – probably an accountant or economist recommendation, totally out of touch with social reality!
     • Gabby 3.1.2

       7 August 2018 at 9:53 am

       It has the baaarp whiff of a Coleman baaarp brainwave.
     • veutoviper 3.1.3

       7 August 2018 at 10:50 am

       Tony Ryall – when Minister of Health in 2014.

       Here is a 2014 RNZ article on this with more detail re Ryall’s decision. https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/242096/disabled-care-pay-policy-'unworkable‘

       And a few more from the RNZ archives. This one on 8 Feb 2018 which also includes links to a number of other articles between 2014 and 2018.
       https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/349903/mother-wins-battle-with-health-ministry-over-carer-pay

       And this followup on Ms Moody and her son a few days later by John Campbell who spent a day with them: https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018632264/the-cost-of-looking-after-a-disabled-adult-child

       I assume your mention of this issue came from the item on this morning’s Morning Report on:
       Families caring for adult disabled children are appalled by attempts to simplify the guidelines for how much support and money they can get. Six months ago the Appeal Court suggested the Health Ministry rewrite its policy for disability support services so caregivers and disabled people could understand it. But two documents and $3000 later families say nothing has changed.

       https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018656967/family-carers-of-disabled-adults-appalled-at-support-changes

       This ridiculous situation needs to be remedied ASAP.
     • SaveNZ 3.1.4

       7 August 2018 at 12:35 pm

       Yep, we thought when Planet Key went into decline, it was over but now Planet Ministry seem to believe that the mentally and physically disabled requiring care are capable of getting those ACC, tax returns and PAYE into shape and are employers. Not government agencies as getting annoying issues of their books onto the helpless seems to be a neoliberal ploy … at the same time partners are apparently not allowed to be paid to be carers and I wonder if the onus will eventually fall on them to do all the paperwork… nonsensical.
     • Patricia Bremner 3.1.5

       7 August 2018 at 2:11 pm

       Yes Once was Tim, this must be a “do as I say Not as I do” situation, as anyone who is deemed Section 9 can not be held responsible for all sorts of things.

       To then say they can follow an employer’s manual and fulfill all the obligations which are complex is laughable.

       It is one thing to break down “Hand washing” into a series of diagrams…. quite another to break down “Paying Tax” or “ACC” or “GST”. AMAZING!! Sarc!!
   • SaveNZ 3.2

     7 August 2018 at 9:15 am

     What is happening in Australia in aged care.. and who owns them… and who wants rebates from the government…

     Profit from ageing population
     https://www.asx.com.au/education/investor-update-newsletter/201504-profit-from-ageing-population.htm
   • Venezia 3.3

     7 August 2018 at 11:44 am

     This farcical situation in the rest home industry has gone on far too long. The government need to call them out on it. While making record profits, the private providers say they are unable to pay Registered Nurses the going rate DHBs pay. They want the qualified staff & advertise this care is available, but RN cover is very thin on the ground, (one per shift in a large facility with hospital level care floor) otherwise at night, usually on call. When RN care is required, they quickly call an ambulance to transfer the resident to hospital. Another example of the private sector passing on their costs to the public taxpayer. And by the way, they pay no tax at all.
     • SaveNZ 3.3.1

       7 August 2018 at 12:26 pm

       Great insights, Venezia.
     • Patricia Bremner 3.3.2

       7 August 2018 at 2:16 pm

       This is correct Venezia. A cousin in the sector tells me they rush round doing everything to get accredited, then it goes out the window ’till next time.
       An inquiry is overdue…. but imagine what the the Nats would say!!
       Another inquiry!! God knows they left a mess.
       • OnceWasTim 3.3.2.1

         7 August 2018 at 7:34 pm

         A bit like ISO9000 ?
         Everything documented, but SFA followed, as long as there’s some sort of accredication certificate to hang on the wall and put everyone’s mind at ease to get the punters through

         /semi-sarc (or maybe /neo-sarc)
4. SaveNZ 4

   7 August 2018 at 9:26 am

   Does not seem to be any real prosecutions of aged care providers with many outrageous examples of profiteering, while relying on the age of the person so that they don’t understand what they are paying. Industry needs a clean up!

   Considering many millennials are going to have to rely on inheritance to actually own a house in NZ, they might find that that dream is taken away by big business, as the consolidating multinationals take with careful contracts large chunks of assets like the retirement housing through loopholes like ‘renovation costs’ and ensuring the house can not be sold on the open market, therefore re appropriating large quantities of individual wealth back to themselves leaving the millennial penniless and increasing over time the inequality distribution in NZ.
5. SaveNZ 5

   7 August 2018 at 10:28 am

   China’s wall of debt, article below, is like NZ’s idea’s to use debt fuelled construction as a way to pretend our economy is going rockstar! Nice and easy rather than real growth and works for a bit, then suddenly you get too much construction and it all starts going wrong, because you need more than construction you also need infrastructure to support it, and real jobs outside of that area, and it’s an issue in NZ that we can’t even afford to live in the houses being constructed on the wages that many people are given! Time to diversify away from risky construction….

   https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018656486/dinny-mcmahon-china-s-great-wall-of-debt
   • Draco T Bastard 5.1

     7 August 2018 at 2:49 pm

     But China differs somewhat from these earlier cases, McMahon says.

     “Most of the borrowing has been done by companies, but most of those companies are state-owned.”

     So who owns the debt?

     “The government has shown no inclination of taking over that debt on large scale, and debt has been taken on at the discretion of local managers under pressure from local government officials because they’re all striving hard to generate growth.”

     This is the problem with understanding Western monetary systems and transferring that understanding onto other monetary systems.

     See, what he’s describing there isn’t actually a debt but a deficit. There’s a difference and a fairly significant one. A monetary debt occurs when one person borrows from another. A monetary deficit occurs when a sovereign nation creates more money than what it’s getting back in taxes. In the former excessive amounts of it become a problem because it needs to be paid back and probably with interest. In the latter it can simply be ignored or simply written off so that it no longer exists and it will make absolutely no difference to the economy.

     Now that the Chinese government have the buildings they can now work on building up other aspects of the economy (Factories, schools, R&D establishments) to encourage people to move into them.

     We could do the same if we used solely sovereign monetary systems. Government creates the money, spends it into the economy building houses, schools, factories developing our economy and our society. The only constraint about what we could do is the availability of our own resources.

     The big point here is that we need to stop confusing a government deficit for a debt because, with sovereign money system, its not. In fact, a government should never go into debt even to its reserve bank.
6. Puckish Rogue 6

   7 August 2018 at 10:30 am

   So it begins

   http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1808/S00060/thugs-threaten-violence-at-brash-event.htm

   http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=B3E11F9F-2C2C-4E9B-A0AD-352E72A76BB6

   “The members later approached University management concerned about their ability to meet the agreement’s terms around security after becoming aware of social media posts suggesting the event could lead to violence.”

   How to stifle free speech in NZ

   Step 1: Threaten violence

   The end.
   • arkie 6.1

     7 August 2018 at 10:43 am

     Press Release: ACT New Zealand
     Thugs threaten violence at Brash event

     Yep, snowflakes gonna snowflake.
   • Carolyn_Nth 6.2

     7 August 2018 at 10:44 am

     Statement from the Vice Chancellor, Professor Thomas, does not place security concerns with the left only, but with left and right wing protesters possibly clashing.

     Blaming left activists comes from your link to a statement from ACT.

     From the Uni statement:

     Professor Thomas says she supports free speech on campus, but totally opposes hate speech. “Mr Brash’s leadership of Hobson’s Pledge and views he and its supporters espoused in relation to Māori wards on councils was clearly of concern to many staff, particularly Māori staff. Whether those views would have been repeated to students in the context of a discussion about the National Party may seem unlikely, but I have no way of knowing. In my opinion the views expressed by members of Hobson’s Pledge come dangerously close to hate speech. They are certainly not conducive with the University’ strategy of recognising the values of a Tiriti o Waitangi-led organisation.”

     “It is clear there is heightened sensitivity and passion at this time, following the protests both against and in support of Ms Southern and Mr Molyneux’s right to be heard. Our ultimate responsibility is for the safety and wellbeing of students, staff and members of the public on our campuses and under those circumstances cancelling the booking is the right thing to do. The members of the Politics Club have acted responsibly in raising their concerns with the University and are free to meet Dr Brash at another venue if they wish.”

     [My bold]

     Unfortunately some hot heads on the left (as well as many on the right) do get into threatening violence. The minority of left wingers who do that do not help the left, and frustrate many of us.

     Ultimately though, Hobson’s Pledge does oppose full implementation of Te Tiriti, and does that by mis-representing it. Given that Te Tiriti is a founding document of our country, there is a strong reason from restricting them from spreading it.
     • Puckish Rogue 6.2.1

       7 August 2018 at 11:23 am

       “Unfortunately some hot heads on the left (as well as many on the right) do get into threatening violence.”

       Yep

       The problem, as i see it, is that threatening violence to shut down debate on topics you don’t like does work in the short term but may also help lead to the raise of someone like Trump so long term is a bad idea
       • McFlock 6.2.1.1

         7 August 2018 at 1:23 pm

         Except that if the message AOC linked to counted as “threatening violence” the person signed it and left a contact phone number. Not exactly the smartest thing to do if you’re committing a crime (sending a threat via telecommunications).

         But then that sounds better than “far right wanna play victim again”
         • Puckish Rogue 6.2.1.1.1

           7 August 2018 at 3:02 pm

           I’m talking more generally, the more this kind of thing happens the more likely the push back will be
           • McFlock 6.2.1.1.1.1

             7 August 2018 at 4:15 pm

             Except “this kind of thing” didn’t actually happen, no matter how much they squeal.
     • Grantoc 6.2.2

       7 August 2018 at 1:35 pm

       So the appropriate response is to stand up to those who threaten violence, to those who behave as bullies regardless of their political allegiances; not to give into it as Massey Uni has done.

       Isn’t this exactly what anti bully advocates stress time and time again. The situation at Massey, ironically an institution that typically would not tolerate bullying behaviour, is untenable. The VC should be dismissed.

       Actually the more I think about it, the more it seems to me that the VC at Massey is using the treat of violence as an excuse to prevent Brash from speaking. She gives herself away with her rant about hate speak and her deliberate misrepresentation of Brash’s position.
       • Puckish Rogue 6.2.2.1

         7 August 2018 at 3:11 pm

         “Actually the more I think about it, the more it seems to me that the VC at Massey is using the treat of violence as an excuse to prevent Brash from speaking”

         Yeah this is exactly what it is and all it does is tell thugs that if they don’t want someone to speak then all they have to do is threaten and it’ll get canned
       • McFlock 6.2.2.2

         7 August 2018 at 4:18 pm

         Possibly.

         Could also be a double bluff – the university doesn’t want to finance tory wet dreams of victimhood, so basically says if the threat is serious, it’s a safety issue.

         To assess whether the threat is serious, ask the dude who wrote the letter. they even included their cell number.
   • dukeofurl 6.3

     7 August 2018 at 10:46 am

     you are using an ACT press release as a news source ?

     “that free speech ‘does not come free of consequences’.- sounds like a thug ?

     It was merely a criticism of the event and the hosts, the actual link doesnt threaten violence at all.
     • Carolyn_Nth 6.3.1

       7 August 2018 at 11:13 am

       And many on the left oppose the Massey Uni Vice Chancellor’s decision.

       There’s a debate happening at Auckland Uni debating Society on free speech on Thursday. Brash will be one of the debaters:

       The inaugural Think Big Debate is going to examine whether PC culture has gone too far and is limiting freedom of speech. Don Brash (of the Free Speech coalition), will affirm the motion and Fran O’Sullivan (business editor at the New Zealand Herald) and Simon Wilson (senior writer at the New Zealand Herald) will negate the motion. They will be joined by two of the Universities top debaters. The debate will also feature an address from Sir Anand Satyanand. With Freedom of Speech in the headlines both in New Zealand and overseas you won’t want to miss this event.
       • Puckish Rogue 6.3.1.1

         7 August 2018 at 11:18 am

         To me this isn’t a left v right issue and its good to see theres more than a few lefties that oppose this kind of thuggish behaviour

         ‘If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.’
       • Cinny 6.3.1.2

         7 August 2018 at 11:36 am

         Personally I’d love to attend such an event, would be very interesting.
         • Carolyn_Nth 6.3.1.2.1

           7 August 2018 at 2:21 pm

           Yes. But it’s a pity the Auckland Uni Great Debate panel is skewed to the right, Pakeha, and older ages. Given current issues about racism, etc, and the Uni context, this looks a bit worrying.

           I hope the Uni’s “top debaters” are more representative.
           • Cinny 6.3.1.2.1.1

             7 August 2018 at 2:32 pm

             Fair enough.

             Lolz all this free speech narrative and many of them making a fuss about it don’t seem to want to broadcast or debate on the net for free with a global audience.

             Am beginning to believe that for many free speech is more about supplementary income.
     • Puckish Rogue 6.3.2

       7 August 2018 at 11:15 am

       Well theres also this:

       http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=B3E11F9F-2C2C-4E9B-A0AD-352E72A76BB6
       • marty mars 6.3.2.1

         7 August 2018 at 11:22 am

         “Professor Thomas says she supports free speech on campus, but totally opposes hate speech. “Mr Brash’s leadership of Hobson’s Pledge and views he and its supporters espoused in relation to Māori wards on councils was clearly of concern to many staff, particularly Māori staff. Whether those views would have been repeated to students in the context of a discussion about the National Party may seem unlikely, but I have no way of knowing. In my opinion the views expressed by members of Hobson’s Pledge come dangerously close to hate speech. They are certainly not conducive with the University’ strategy of recognising the values of a Tiriti o Waitangi-led organisation.””

         Sounds legit to me
         • Puckish Rogue 6.3.2.1.1

           7 August 2018 at 11:47 am

           “In my opinion the views expressed by members of Hobson’s Pledge come dangerously close to hate speech.”

           In her opinion is why shes shutting it down whereas to others he’s bringing up subjects that should be debated
           • marty mars 6.3.2.1.1.1

             7 August 2018 at 11:53 am

             So find a venue and debate it. You rightie free speechers are always looking for others to do the work – get off your arse and do it yourself – you have all the advantages and power in society. You run it and own it but still it’s too hard. Lol no wonder righties are weak bullies.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               7 August 2018 at 11:57 am

               Yes dear
               • marty mars …

                 7 August 2018 at 12:25 pm

                 Ha resorting to that eh – what a fuckwit lol

                 Yeah piss off you big man – go find a crowd of alt right hammers to hide in.
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   7 August 2018 at 12:28 pm

                   Thats nice dear
                   • marty mars …

                     7 August 2018 at 1:11 pm

                     Lol at least you’re not calling women mental cases for bringing allegations of pedo shit to the publics attention anymore – even a tool like you can learn – although why you did that is a mystery…
                   • Cinny …

                     7 August 2018 at 2:21 pm

                     PR, The Red Princess, when asked about it by seymour said… that her personal view was that the university had over reacted.

                     I think seymour is feeling a bit bummed out now, he was trying so hard to stir up shite.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     7 August 2018 at 3:01 pm

                     To Cinny

                     You may well be right, politicians need exposure after all
   • Cinny 6.4

     7 August 2018 at 11:31 am

     ACT is labeling these people as left wing thugs. And there is the problem.

     Why not just label them as thugs?

     Update, they have chosen to cancel his speech and now Seymour is asking for the Vice Chancellor to step down. WOW!! Just heard it on the wireless.

     Edit… what is the name of this political club that asked Don Brash to speak please? Maybe that would reveal more information and clarity.
     • Puckish Rogue 6.4.1

       7 August 2018 at 11:52 am

       To differentiate from right wing thugs I guess?
       • Cinny 6.4.1.1

         7 August 2018 at 2:22 pm

         Nah, more like to drive division and disorder.
         • Puckish Rogue 6.4.1.1.1

           7 August 2018 at 3:00 pm

           Another reason could be that the media is pushing the idea its right wing thugs only so maybe Seymours just trying to remind the media theres thugs on both sides
           • WILD KATIPO 6.4.1.1.1.1

             7 August 2018 at 5:18 pm

             Yeah but the difference is right wing thugs use guns,… all the rest have a donk.

             Don’t need a gun when you have a Donk – Crocodile Dundee 2 …
             
   • mac1 6.5

     7 August 2018 at 11:56 am

     Just like we did in 1981, eh PR, @#6 above? There is a difference between threatening violence and acting in a way that evinced unwarranted violence in others.

     Study the difference between non-violent protest and street fighting. History provides many examples from Indian non-violent protest against the English salt taxes to the rise of the brown shirts in the Thirties.

     At an earlier time I had a friend who protested at the Mt John Observatory. He was accused of assaulting a police dog with his genitals.

     On such notes of comedy, can I place with you my deepest sympathy, Puckish Rogue, to your no doubt profound disillusionment with the beloved Judith and her faux news. I can smell the smoke from the discarded screeds of verse from here.
     • Puckish Rogue 6.5.1

       7 August 2018 at 12:01 pm

       “Just like we did in 1981, eh PR,”

       A little before my time but peaceful, lawful protest should be protected for anyone in NZ

       It sounded like a media beat up/beltway issue/fake news/nothing to see here move along 🙂
       • mac1 6.5.1.1

         7 August 2018 at 12:13 pm

         Au sujet de faux news.

         “A demoiselle nick-named Crusher
         Had a rather large rush of
         Blood to the head
         When she believed what she read.
         Apologies? A deafening hush, sir.”
         • Puckish Rogue 6.5.1.1.1

           7 August 2018 at 12:17 pm

           Damn strait!
           • mac1 6.5.1.1.1.1

             7 August 2018 at 12:39 pm

             Cook or Foveaux?

             I just heard that Simon Bridges says she and he had a discussion on the phone last night and another in person this morning.

             She said she had no discussion!

             it’s all reminiscent of another tweeter we all know.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               7 August 2018 at 12:58 pm

               Collins is boss, what she says goes
               • McFlock …

                 7 August 2018 at 3:54 pm

                 The thought of Collins as nact leader also makes me happy.

                 As poisonous as hemlock, with the teamwork skills of Muldoon, and she’ll cling on to the job like a hate-filled limpet.

                 And NZ1 will become the major right-wing party…
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   7 August 2018 at 4:14 pm

                   The thought of Collins as nact leader also makes me…well we won’t go there

                   As delicate as a flower, with the teamwork skills of Richie McCaw, and she’ll cling on to the job like a love-filled muppet.

                   And NZ1 will become the minor right-wing party…
                   • McFlock …

                     7 August 2018 at 4:25 pm

                     The flower is that one that pretends to be a corpse so as to attract flies.
                     The team the rest of the nats are on is Australia.
                     And the muppet is Crazy Harry.
           • Patricia Bremner 6.5.1.1.1.2

             7 August 2018 at 2:23 pm

             Straight my dear!!
             • mac1 …

               7 August 2018 at 4:54 pm

               “Straight’ can’t be applied to Collins, like the word ‘discussion’, whereas metaphorically a ‘strait’ divides land as Collins divides her caucus.

               A demoiselle nick-named Crusher
               When the shove came to push her,
               Promised her caucus
               A ruckus most raucous
               Rival the fall of the House of Usher.
   • ianmac 6.6

     7 August 2018 at 3:48 pm

     Yes PR. It seems that it has become so easy to block any event by threatening to bomb. I suppose being able to bury the source of such a threat in some distant country would help the “threatener.”
     Maybe we will have to ignore such threats. But look how terrorists have totally changed the security of travellers. Shoes off please.
     • Puckish Rogue 6.6.1

       7 August 2018 at 4:23 pm

       “Maybe we will have to ignore such threats. But look how terrorists have totally changed the security of travellers. Shoes off please.”

       Indeed, i’d think that for most people in NZ a good, stiff prison term would deter most
   • Gabby 6.7

     7 August 2018 at 10:03 pm

     Big Judee been threatening people again puckers?
     • Puckish Rogue 6.7.1

       8 August 2018 at 9:35 am

       It is her destiny

       https://pixels.com/featured/a-hero-will-rise-lesley-dehaan.html
7. te reo putake 7

   7 August 2018 at 10:53 am

   The Nurses Organisation have accepted the latest pay and conditions offer, with the majority voting yes in the latest ballot.

   Good on the negotiating team, they’ve been put under real pressure by some of their members, but appear to have done a sterling job delivering both pay and staffing improvements.
   • Ad 7.1

     7 August 2018 at 11:09 am

     +100

     Union!
     • John up North 7.1.1

       7 August 2018 at 11:57 am

       There’s power in a UNION! Billy Bragg
   • Jenny 7.2

     7 August 2018 at 12:12 pm

     They union officials had little choice.

     The government have made it very clear that they were not prepared to budge.

     While strikes at the point of private production and profit are generally very effective at squeezing more out of an employer,

     Strikes at the point of consumption and cost are very hard to win. Instead of stopping the flow of profits, they stop the flow of expense.

     I am informed of this by the massive nurses strike in Zimbabwe, where the government took the opportunity to sack all the nurses gaining a massive cost cut for the government.

     At one time Zimbabwe had one of the best public health systems in Africa.

     And the government was very keen to have an excuse to cut government expenditure on public health provision even more.

     New Zealand is not Zimbabwe, but you get the point.

     https://www.reuters.com/article/us-zimbabwe-healthcare-strike/zimbabwe-fires-16000-striking-nurses-for-politically-motivated-move-idUSKBN1HP2OR

     The only way out of this quandary would be for the nurses to get support from the workers at the point of profit taking.

     If the nurses had voted to strike, the union leaders (if they wanted to get a win for their members) would have had little choice but to call for support strikes from the profit taking part of the economy.

     Maybe next time.
     • Gosman 7.2.1

       7 August 2018 at 12:20 pm

       A good old General strike. Be careful what you wish for because if you think the environment for Trade Union’s are tough now wait until that ever happens to see how hostile the reaction of members of the public will be.
   • Psych nurse 7.3

     7 August 2018 at 12:17 pm

     NOT
8. Jenny 8

   7 August 2018 at 12:19 pm

   The Planet Is Dangerously Close to the Tipping Point for a ‘Hothouse Earth’
   Yasemin Saplakoglu – Live Science, August 6, 2018

   The roof, the roof, the roof is on fire…

   If I go to hell at least I’ll burn well…
   • Jenny 8.1

     7 August 2018 at 1:21 pm

     Domino-effect of climate events could push Earth into a ‘hothouse’ state
     Johnathan Watts – The Guardian, August 6, 2018

     Leading scientists warn that passing such a point would make efforts to reduce emissions increasingly futile

     The window to act is closing.
9. Chris T 9

   7 August 2018 at 12:30 pm

   Now after Southern a few threatening, wannabe censors have stopped Brash from talking at Massey

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/don-brash-uninvited-from-massey-university-speaking-event.html
   • Anne 9.1

     7 August 2018 at 1:05 pm

     From the link:

     ACT Party leader David Seymour says Professor Thomas should resign for the “cowardly barring” of Dr Brash.

     “I have long feared that American-style anti-intellectual, violent intolerance would come here,” Mr Seymour said.

     Oh dear Mr Seymour you are in a real muddle aren’t you. It is the two Canadians, Southern and Molyneaux who are the provocateurs with their American -style, anti intellectual, violent intolerance and you support them.

     No wonder Massey University had to cancel the meeting no doubt for the safety of everyone including Don Brash himself. The invitation was extended two months ago young man. Next time think a little before you and Dr Don Brash (who should know better) jump on the bandwagon of the enablers of violence and thuggery because there are always consequences!

     The problem is, blind and stupid ideology gets in the way of rational thought.
     • Carolyn_Nth 9.1.1

       7 August 2018 at 1:17 pm

       I think Massey uni should have been prepared to accept that protests would happen. Brash’s event was largely a Nat Party event, and would not have been an open debate. It would have been difficult to provide an alternative viewpoint, so protests would have been inevitable.

       The bigger issue was not complying with the Uni’s commitment to te Tiriti – with no alternative views, i could see how that might have been considered a problem.
       • Pat 9.1.1.1

         7 August 2018 at 10:01 pm

         “The university said Dr Brash had been invited by the students in his capacity as a former National Party leader to discuss the party as part of a series of talks involving current leader Simon Bridges and an MP considered a potential future leader, Chris Bishop.”

         https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/363534/don-brash-s-talk-to-massey-students-canned
   • Gabby 9.2

     7 August 2018 at 9:53 pm

     So the students association couldn’t invite him to speak on their own premises?
10. joe90 10

    7 August 2018 at 1:07 pm

    Die, FB.

    Facebook Inc. FB 4.45% wants your financial data.

    The social-media giant has asked large U.S. banks to share detailed financial information about their customers, including card transactions and checking-account balances, as part of an effort to offer new services to users.

    Facebook increasingly wants to be a platform where people buy and sell goods and services, besides connecting with friends. The company over the past year asked JPMorgan Chase JPM 0.03% & Co., Wells Fargo WFC 0.10% & Co., Citigroup Inc. C 0.01% and U.S. Bancorp USB 0.04% to discuss potential offerings it could host for bank customers on Facebook Messenger, said people familiar with the matter.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-to-banks-give-us-your-data-well-give-you-our-users-1533564049?mod=e2tw
    • dV 10.1

      7 August 2018 at 1:12 pm

      NO. NO NO NO
    • infused 10.2

      7 August 2018 at 3:29 pm

      This has been happening for some time now. The trade section on facebook is killing trademe.
11. Morrissey 11

    7 August 2018 at 2:28 pm

    The right is extremely touchy about the subject of National’s dead duck “leader” and the poisonous woman working assiduously at replacing him.

    This writer, i.e. moi, has just been pink carded over at Kiwi Blog. The crime: reminding everyone just how dire the National Party is…

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/08/general_debate_7_august_2018.html/comment-page-1#comment-2275095
    • Cinny 11.1

      7 August 2018 at 2:39 pm

      lmao, not sure what a ‘pink card’ is, but it makes your comment stand out like dogs balls 🙂 PS love your work over there.
    • Bewildered 11.2

      7 August 2018 at 3:48 pm

      old Simon not doing great but Nats are far less reliant on bridges as leader than labour and coalition are on Arden, she chucks it in for what ever reason it’s over rover Let alone as people begin to tire of her vacuous feel good nothings and working groups, let’s have a discussion….Likewise replacing Simon probably only upside for National so stop encouraging it morrisy
    • ianmac 11.3

      7 August 2018 at 3:53 pm

      Aha. So Morrissey carries a pink card. Is he a real Commie now?
12. greywarshark 12

    7 August 2018 at 5:07 pm

    Striking city shots and Russian-Indian Dance and song flash mob.
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAn2EWgrfLk
13. Jenny 13

    8 August 2018 at 5:23 am

    We need to dump the “Fast Follower” Doctrine of John Key.

    More than ever New Zealand needs to lead.

    ‘Many parts of Earth could become uninhabitable’: Study’s grim warning
    Blake Foden – Canberra Times, August 7, 2018

    “… Sitting on our hands means we are at risk of driving the Earth – and human wellbeing – beyond an irreversible point of no return.”

    The study, titled Trajectories of the Earth System in the Anthropocene, says temperatures could hit the level needed to send the planet down the “Hothouse Earth” path in just a few decades.

    No time for half measures

    The government needs to put an immediate moratorium on all new oil exploration right now.
14. corodale 14

    8 August 2018 at 5:27 am

    Hey, where Southern and Molyneux shut down at the last minute by NZ’s national security? Thats the way it’s looking to me.
    • corodale 14.1

      8 August 2018 at 5:38 am

      Noting, they could actually have helped us socialists develop dialog on positive alternatives to neo-liberalism. Nation states of socialism, being the logical replacement. The connection between Nation States of Socialism and National Socialism may still need some working through.

      I was reading up on the Israeli Free Mason website… didn’t know that Hitler’s book also black listed the Free Masons. It’s only the Joos ya hear about in media these days. The lose of some 200,000 Masons is also significant. But I’m assuming Hitler didn’t mention the banking influence of the Jesuits, cheeky choir boy. That’s the art of quality propaganda. It’s not so much about lying, it’s more about excluding the inconvenient truths.
15. eco maori 15

    8 August 2018 at 8:30 am

    Good Morning The Am Show There are a lot of people in the same error as gone brash
    that will have smoke coming out there———– because We are winding back all there inhumane discriminatory policy’s .
    Last year jerry came out with the line I cant spell who was he copying trying to raise his profile into the prime minister’s office .A lot of people are not happy about the way don.s m8 have been running Aotearoa for the wealthy any other issues were swept under the carpet we no they are cheats .
    As Eco Maori travels around Aotearoa I see most people smiling looking tidy they are happy ka pai kia kaha this is how people should be in a country with all the treasurer of natural resources the most for non carbon based economy’s on Papatuanuku . The Capitalist like gone want’s to keep all the gains for him and his m8 greed Eco says who cares about the side effects of there greed ie tangata dieing in the streets high suicide rate’s 5 x that of Brittan school health and housing all in a mess thanks gone.
    Loyd boris jonson is a puppet of the capitalist they don’t like humane policy’s force on them from the European Union they want to set Britain up for the bankers and wealthy at the expense of the poor common person bankers don’t like being put in there place and told what to do .They think they can turn Britain into Hong Kong the bank of Europe .The captilast are greedy fools.
    Your guest yesterday was talking like he wanted to get rid of the Pharmac model he was attaching it we mite need to fine tune it a bit I argree that some more cancer Drugs should funded I could see your guest want’s to scrap Pharmac .
    Eco Maori will defend any policy’s that I see that are good for all tangata and attack any policys or views that I see as putting the wealthy before the poor common Kiwi’s
    Equality . Ka kite ano

    .
    .
16. eco maori 16

    8 August 2018 at 9:12 am

    The threat to Democracy is wealthy people using lobbyist to minuplate policy’s and get them into Law that take away from the many poor and give to the wealthy.
    Policys that does not think about the future we leave the Mokopunas and the future of Papatuanuku and all her create’s they lie about Human caused global warming because of there love of power control and mone .
    The treat to Democracy is the capitalist using computa data and videos on the net to win elections feeding people with lies that’s cheating in Eco Maori’s book .
    Ka kite ano .P.S I can see the capitalist money flowing into your pocket’s
17. eco maori 17

    8 August 2018 at 11:20 am

    Here we go trump is going to slap China with more trade tariffs he is going around Papatuanuku lying to everyone that America is getting ripped off in trade with most other nations YEA RIGHT what he forgets about is we have a computa a common sense
    and Intelligence to see that all he is worried about is his voter’s polling’s and his hip pocket .
    Most of the Papatuanuku is forced into using the Green back to trade in exports and imports so when we trade in US currency we have to pay a % to use this currency.
    And I will bet trump has got the printing press running over time printing cash this action devalues the US mone that other country’s /people hold so its a double win for America Papatuanuku trade is about 17 trillon so American banks get a % of this mone just for running there computers thats a fact who is ripping whom trump the internet is the Equalizer . If a country trys to trade with its OWN currency they will make a excuse to fight terrorist invade that country and change the leaders we have seen this with our own eyes trump why is no media talking about Global Warming is it because you are playing with democry and have a silent ban so the world media cannot use the words Human Caused Global Warming . There is only one country that’s has there tentacles that can reach into every country and do this and trump has no morels so he will do what ever it takes to win thats what bullies do link below Ka kite ano.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/106093721/new-us-slap-against-china-tighter-curbs-on-tech-investment
18. eco maori 18

    8 August 2018 at 11:36 am

    The Europeen Union has made the correct call to just carry on trading with other nations Ka pai link below. Ka kite ano

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/07/eu-foreign-policy-chief-calls-on-firms-to-defy-trump-over-iran trump ana to kai
19. eco maori 19

    8 August 2018 at 6:45 pm

    Good evening Newshub that new catapult bungy jump looks really intense in Queens town that will give all the thrill seeker a good Adrenalin rush ka pai .
    The Gray Mouth Bar is really scarey I have been over it in bad weather that’s a thrilling ride there even when the skipper’s had 20 years experience.
    There you go boris the capitalist using the race card to bolster his voter rateing fool
    My cousin shot most of the cats back home and the rats stoats possums you should see all the bird life they are thriving I like my cats I put a bell on mine he passed 3 years ago he was 7 years old big fluffy and black theirs the od pest left but not many.
    Eco has been a Elon Mus fan for years good one the oil barons will be pulling out what hair they have left I have seen the smear campaign they have been running against Elon and his company’s .
    Kith urban looks like he’s got a ta moko if it is Ka pai .
    Ka kite ano P.S I have 3 boards going at the same time ana to kai
20. eco maori 20

    8 August 2018 at 7:20 pm

    The Crowd Goes Wild James and Mulls its cool that these guys like Billy and Simon retire when there are ready Its a logical move.
    The Chiefs did ok this year with changes of couches and all the injuries they had .
    James you could put korua design on your beard I’m not aloud a beard . That’s hilarious James calling shonky Jacinda Ka pai E hoa I got a sore face now Ka kite ano
    • solkta 20.1

      8 August 2018 at 7:35 pm

      Who is this “Chiefs” group that you talk about? Are they an Anarcho-syndicalist group with an ironic name? Did they get their injuries fighting the Fascists?
21. eco maori 21

    8 August 2018 at 10:10 pm

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