Tracy Watkins wrote the following in the Dominion Post on the 21st November.
“What would it take to quieten Camp Cunliffe after Labour’s pro forma backing of David Shearer? An olive branch, and preferably with the heads of Trevor Mallard, Annette King and Phil Goff skewered on it.
Because the tussle between Camp Cunliffe and Camp Shearer is not just over performance, or personality, though both are big factors behind the train wreck leading up to yesterday’s 100 per cent backing of Mr Shearer.
It is also about direction and resentment within parts of Labour at the role played by the “old guard” in last year’s leadership run-off.”
So what effort has there been by “the old guard” to extend an olive branch?
Has an ’eminent arbitrator’ been been sent to look for middle ground for the sake of the country?
Have the supporters of Cunliffe been asked into Shearer’s office for a team-building chat?
Me thinks not. Why, you ask!
The mindset behind the Tamihere affair and the Curran bullying plan indicates that the Caucus leadership is pushing further and harder down the anti “vox populi” road.
The common themes in these two messes are rejection of the members preferences and brow beating of the NZ Council. Those themes align with the Caucus leadership’s fury over the 40/60 threshold vote at Conference and the demotion of Cunliffe for this “defeat”.
So, the party needs to find a path that binds the wounds and stops the Tamihere and Curran style hara-kiri acts of the current Caucus leadership.
If the membership are to be denied involvement in a February selection process then, in return, they have to see a new modus-vivendi for the whole Caucus.
A February 100% endorsement of Shearer without any change to the composition, mind-set and behaviour of the current Caucus Leadership will have a withering effect on the membership. Cynicism, resignation, defection and revulsion will weaken the party very significantly.
That type of no-vote/no change scenario in February is not an option.
Moira Coatsworth, Tim Barnett, senior NZ Council members and former MPs must intervene to break this deadlock.
The reality on the streets of Dunedin South is – to put it very politely and in the most generous terms – that voters in the electorate have experienced growing distance with the MP.
From past voting figures, the Labour predecessor won a significant number of votes and held an impressive majority, while maintaining or even improving both the electorate and party votes at those levels (1999 – 2005).
However, the numbers in this dark red Labour bastion have dropped quite noticeably under the current MP’s watch in terms of the electorate vote for the MP and, very worryingly, Labour’s party vote which was just recently LOST to National!
Party vote:
The predecessor oversaw a significant 10,656 party vote majority (in 2005).
Under the current MP’s watch, the party vote plummeted by about 3,000 votes (in 2008), and then last year, fell more dramatically by 5,000 votes with the result that the party vote was LOST (!!!) to National. National won the party vote with a majority of 1,837.
Electorate vote:
The electorate votes dropped by about a thousand for the MP’s first election (from the predecessor’s 20,033 in 2005 to 19,199 votes in 2008), and despite having the advantage of being a sitting member, this MP’s electorate votes fell some more by another 2,355 (to 16,844) last year.
At the rate things are trending for this MP, the future might see Labour lose also the electorate vote.
I live and breath south d everyday, I’ve been deep red labour since high school, but enough is enough, we need an functioning party, an inclusive vibrant energised organised with modern operational tecniques. There are people on the sideline who can will and want to contribute and bring about a labour victory NOW.
I’m a professional of sorts, educated in operational management and marketing and have a skill set that is in dire need but dismayed at the power clique, the knive plays, the gate keepers and revolving chairperson positions.
I have witnessed the rock solid safe seat of Dunedin south turn blue….CC lost the party vote.
My eye weeped red blood tears at state of this once proud and strong seat.
Now I’ve met CC a nice caring too be sure person who has paid her dues but enough is enough.
A symptom of the misguided philosophy that has been adopted by the elite parliament wing which have devolved the party to merely silent letterbox stuffers.
The Tories in my electorate where more organised connected resourced and more flexible -they won….learn CC and take it too the Tories NOW.
“I have witnessed the rock solid safe seat of Dunedin south turn blue….CC lost the party vote.
My eye weeped red blood tears at state of this once proud and strong seat”
Yes, some major reconnecting and rebuilding needed.
Interestingly, she says is concerned about bloggers criticising “other party members”. This convenient demotion of herself, other MPS and party management, to mere members for the purposes of spin really pisses me off. It is outright dishonest to deliberately misrepresent the power relations in the issue, and to pretend that serious political criticism is a personal matter between members.
Also, she claims to have found CV’s identity from personal emails from CV to her*, rather than via red-alert. I suspect this may be untrue. Will be interesting to watch this unfold.
*I’d be gobsmacked if CV has sent any emails signed-off as CV. Comparing email addresses between RA and MP correspondance is a completely different animal.
fta: “Ms.Curran said she had sought discussion at the party council level about what was an ”acceptable” standard of behaviour, particularly when a member was expressing views anonymously, in a way in which was intended to damage other party members and the party overall.” [emph. mine]
Big claim, cc. Hope you have some solid examples of that.
Clare, let’s have the letter out in the open so no-one can accuse you of sniping from behind closed doors in a way that could be construed as intending to damage other party members and the party overall.
No, a i’m suggesting an MP release a letter she wrote about party members to the council. She is busy saying what the letter contains, so why not release it?
The MP can release her letter of complaint which she talks about so much, without revealing, or causing to be revealed, the identity of any pseudonymised blogger.
Or she may agree that those who are in receipt of her complaint letter may release that letter on request, while protecting the identity of the blogger.
I don’t think it’s legal to publicly release the correspondence from CV that identified him from personal emails without his permission to do so, and I don’t think it’s ethical to release a private email from Clare Curran to Labours council concerning how the party might deal with cyberwarfare. These are both private matters.
Only a moron would think that some of the comments on The Standard weren’t designed to damage Labour.
There are no two ways about this. Even my less interested colleagues and friends can see the bullying, threatening and gagging that is driving the complaint letter. This is continuing to reflect poorly on the MP, the leadership and the party overall.
Way to sidestep the issue of wanting private correspondence publicly release… But since you have obviously attained the letter yourself to be able to make such grandiose claims, why don’t you release it Jim Viperald? What’s that… You don’t actually have the letter? “Bullying, threatening and gagging” are pretty big claims to make about a letter that you’ve never even read eh!
So if a party member is intent on damaging the party they belong to, should the party still accept them no questions asked One Tāne Viper? The intention was to damage Labour, whether the subsequent actions have actually damaged Labour is debatable.
For example, my saying I think Shearer is a mumbling bumbling disaster is an attempt to improve the Labour Party, not damage it.
There are rules in place to discipline or expel members who bring the party into disrepute, for example, but they say nothing about “intention” because intention is basically impossible to prove.
I contend that John Tamihere, for example, had the intention of boosting his own fragile ego and expressing his puerile opinions, but he was expelled for the disrepute he brings to the party, not his “intentions”
There’s a huge divide between creative criticism and criticism for the sake of it One Tāne Viper… And clearly that’s a decision for Labour to make, which is obviously why Clare Curran was seeking further advice on the issue.
Hence the relevant test is “to bring into disrepute”, not “to intend to bring into disrepute”.
PS: “seeking further advice”. That’s a very pretty spin you’ve got there. Have you seen her letter so that you can make such a bold interpretation of her intent?
You’re playing with semantics One Tāne Viper. Someone can intend and attempt to bring a political party into disrepute… Whether they succeed or fail doesn’t detract from their initial intention, an intention that most bonafide members of a political party wouldn’t dream of.
You contend that I don’t know the content of the letter Curran wrote to Labours council, so cannot say if she was simply seeking advice or not. That to me would seem like the most plausible thing to do, for an MP to seek advice about members of their political party that were bringing that party into disrepute through access to information that only a member could have.
MP’s must at all time ensure that they and the party they belong to aren’t brought into disrepute whether this is actual or only perceived. In effect Clare Curran was trying to adhere to that rule by informing the council of the problem so that they could make an informed decision in order to reduce the amount of damage some bloggers and commentators were causing to the Labour party. Perhaps you don’t like my argument because it is too reasonable and not controversial enough?
You’re argument amounts to; none of the comments on The Standard matter and nobody believes what is written here anyway so they couldn’t have caused harm to the Labour party. Unfortunately this recent spat of infighting somewhat validates your argument One Tāne Viper.
“Plausible” – speculation!
“Intention” – impossible to ascertain without a specific statement of intent.
“Disrepute” – how does demanding open debate and a more democratic party constitute disrepute?
“Damage” – if the Labour Party can be damaged by public debate, the Labour Party is the problem, not the debate.
My argument amounts to – “The Standard is an open forum devoted to political debate, which cannot be anything but healthy, and those who seek to attack it belong in a wingnut gulag like the National Party, not the left.” FIFY.
Another pretty decent semantic argument there One Tāne Viper, however the intentions were obviously acted upon. Besides, intent is still viewed as a crime under current law… And obviously people who intend to undermine Labour shouldn’t be member’s of the party.
I really don’t get where anyone can say CV had the intent to undermine Labour. Clare Curran and co may feel that what he writes does that, and that his words were ill-considered (I don’t think that btw) but imo in no way did he intend to undermine the party.
He advocated for membership and left wing values. If that doesn’t suit the current leadership that still doesn’t mean he intended to undermine the party.
And she’s being disingenuous when she is complaining that he is aiming at other party members. The barbs were directed at her and other right-leaning labourites in caucus. She in turn should be aiming to the right with her own barbs, not to the left, and maybe we’ll all be a bit happier.
But CV’s stated intentions weren’t to “undermine” labour, but to improve it. And his comments, while strong, were pretty consistent with that intent.
There is a difference between criticizing the performance of elected representatives and simply referring to party members as “frontbums” or whatever JT’s wording was.
I’m still at a loss to know why you think Clare Curran’s letter to the council was about CV?
While not saying who her complaints were against, several left-wing bloggers named the person as ”Colonial Viper”, from Dunedin, a member of the party.
It might be easier for some commentators here at The Standard to use CV as an example, but as far as I can tell Clare Curran hasn’t sought disciplinary action against any particular individual.
So why are you now saying my commentary about people who attempt to damage a party they belong to is strictly talking about CV rosy viper?
But CV’s stated intentions weren’t to “undermine” labour, but to improve it.
I must have missed that comment, care to link to it McFliper? People can state their intentions and then do the complete opposite btw, just look at what National promised before the last election.
I really don’t get where anyone can say CV had the intent to undermine Labour.
Clare Curran thinks that the Green Party releasing policies which attract Labour voters is “undermining Labour”, so anything’s possible when she’s involved.
Tell you what:
I’ll go back over the arguments I’ve had with CV over the last 3 months just to link to some of the numerous comments where he said Labour should follow policies xyz in order to INCREASE labour support…
…When you supply the content of Curran’s email that you have been so earnestly defending here.
I don’t think it’s legal to publicly release the correspondence from CV that identified him from personal emails without his permission to do so, and I don’t think it’s ethical to release a private email from Clare Curran to Labours council concerning how the party might deal with cyberwarfare. These are both private matters.
The only letter anyone suggested releasing was the one from Curran to the council. She has been describing the contents of that letter. It is the contents of that letter that are in dispute. Releasing it would clear things up.
I’d also suggest that there is a public interest, and at least the membership would have access to Council documents? It would have been minuted by the Council secretary?
Yes! So if that letter is already accessible to party members, why don’t the party members who are claiming such things point to the actual paragraphs where Clare Curran says she will name and shame CV etc? That would constitute evidence, and that’s what is currently missing from this debate.
Um Jackel you are drawing a lot of conclusions from something you have not seen.
There is no way that CV wanted or intended to or did damage the party. All he has done is engage in robust debate.
The party has always enjoyed robust debate. You only have to attend a good old fashioned meeting of trade unionists to understand what has always gone on.
And the debate here has reflected this.
Curran’s attempt to stifle this debate is rather bizarre. And to allow Tamihere back into the party despite what he said yet punish CV for something he may think is weird.
As for the letter why shouldn’t members be allowed to see it? We have a say in constitution of the party list and on selection of MPs so any evidence about their approach to things is relevant.
You only have to attend a good old fashioned meeting of trade unionists to understand what has always gone on.
You only had to attend Labour Party conferences in the 70s and early to mid 80s to recognise that the robust debates on the conference floor (Wellington Town Hall – remember folks?) have now been transferred to the internet. As a supposed expert in communications, one would think CC could have figured that one out for herself!
Um Jackel you are drawing a lot of conclusions from something you have not seen.
As are others… The difference being that my conclusions align with what Clare Curran has been reported as saying and they do not malign a Labour party MP.
There is no way that CV wanted or intended to or did damage the party. All he has done is engage in robust debate.
It appears that Clare Curran’s letter wasn’t specifically about CV, and it’s difficult to say what his intentions were when he made numerous claims that clearly undermined David Shearer. In my opinion there was no positive aspect to many of CV’s critical comments.
Curran’s attempt to stifle this debate is rather bizarre.
I don’t think Clare Curran was trying to stifle debate, I think she was wanting to limit the damage to Labour that has occurred through the leaking of information by party members.
And to allow Tamihere back into the party despite what he said yet punish CV for something he may think is weird.
CV being punished by Clare Curran or CV self flagellating? I agree that letting Tamihere back into the party was weird.
As for the letter why shouldn’t members be allowed to see it?
Perhaps because it might involve potential policy that hasn’t been properly devised yet? I think the council should be given a chance to consult and then present a potential solution to the party’s membership first, that way nobody can claim things from what amounts to a private conversation in correspondence.
It’s also a private letter between Clare Curran and the council. They’re under no obligation to release it even to the membership.
Having said that I think the claims that have been made about what the letter might contain are probably more detrimental than what the letter is actually likely to contain, so it should be released.
Or if you are sophisticated, comparing the IP numbers in the header of emails against ones at red alert – which is pretty trivial.
Based on the known misuses that went on at Red Alert last year, Occams razor would tend to suggest the simplier explanation of technical means is a damn sight more likely than someone referring to themselves by their psuedonym in a email. Matching email addresses or IPs for a admin at RedAlert is a hell of a lot more likely.
But I suspect it isn’t that likely he was signed as colonial viper. We know that CC spoke to CV about being CV in person on at least one occasion. When she was threatening to “out” him during lobbying at this years conference.
In any case, he was operating under a psuedonym all and saying no more than you’d expect a party member to say. If describing the deficiencies of last years campaign is making the party lok bad, then the MP’s and their staff should look in a frigging mirror.
Quite simply you kind of think that Clare and some of the other MP’s would prefer that we were mindless bots…
Having reread the article I linked to, with the benefit of one and a half coffees on board, I see, Curran claims that CV was open with her about his online identity, in correspondance, and in person. Can we get a confirm or deny on this particular matter?
edit I see Lprent has suggested that the so-called conversations in which CV identified himself, were, in fact one occasion in which Curran identified CV , and threatened him with it.
I had a conversation with CC just after the last election and I stated I posted on TS and she then bugged me to disclose the online pseudo name of the said person involved here who,s real name is still held in confidence by the few who know.
So the knives were out at that time.
Long live CV and freedom to speak and critique in a constructive and reasoned manner.
Problem is that there have been similar leaks like this from people at Red Alert in the past. One resulted in someone losing their job.
Basically when it comes to breaches on the net, you have to look at what is likely from the access and what has happened in the past. The presumption is that there won’t be any definitive proof and usually the behaviours are not illegal. So you warn people about likely idiotic behaviours instead.
Some people running Red Alert have been doing some seriously stupid stuff for quite some time. Threatening to out people for mere political advantage kind of tops even the previous low of getting someone fired for comments that they left on RA.
I’m merely voicing my opinion on exactly how people should avoid such arseholes of the net. If you don’t trust me to recognize such fools, then that is your problem. Go leave comments there.
Having reread the article I linked to, with the benefit of one and a half coffees on board, I see, Curran claims that CV was open with her about his online identity, in correspondance, and in person. Can we get a confirm or deny on this particular matter?
It would be pretty unlikely. CV changed from a previous psuedonym because he thought it had been compromised by the right. At the time I told him that it was unwise to tell anyone.
From what I understand she has reversed the order of events. She asked if he was CV after getting it from other means, and he confirmed it after she pestered. After all what would a Labour MP do to Labour member, right? You can trust them right?
…she has reversed the order of events. She asked if he was CV after getting it from other means, and he confirmed it after she pestered.
That’s pretty much what I was told. Given her apparent unrepentant attitude, I will reveal something else. The pestering started well before the Conference.
This is what can happen when individuals are parachuted in from elsewhere… without having gone through the normal process of climbing the party ladder and learning the ropes of the political game (what you can and can’t do) in the process.
So on one hand we have people complaining that Labour is full of the old guard, but when Labour get some new blood people complain about that as well.
You believing 1prent concerning things he/she is speculating about is particularly naive. Perhaps 1prent might like to provide some information ie evidence and facts to base such a claim on?
I suggest you are the one being naive and might I add childish over this affair. You don’t read comments properly then base your argument on the misread – see Pascal’s bookie @ 2.1.1
You bet I believe 1prent, and he isn’t speculating as you well know. I also believe other people with whom I am acquainted whose reliability and integrity I know to be impeccable. Now grow up Jackal and show respect for those who, for various reasons, are in a position to know more about this matter than you obviously do yourself.
You bet I believe 1prent, and he isn’t speculating as you well know.
I know nothing of the sort hence my questioning 1prent for some evidence? I’m asking because at this stage it appears to be complete speculation that Clare Curran gained CV’s identity through his comments at Red Alert. Curran has now refuted that claim made by 1prent and others, which means 1prent needs to supply evidence for making such claims. Otherwise I’m going to call bullshit on such Whaleoil tactics.
Now grow up Jackal and show respect for those who, for various reasons, are in a position to know more about this matter than you obviously do yourself.
You mean I shouldn’t question the baseless claims of people on The Standard because they’re in a position of power? Get fucking real Anne.
People get as much respect as they deserve from me, and as an outside observer it would appear that 1prent and others have lied in order to discredit a Labour MP. I happen to believe her when she says she found out who CV was through an email over mere speculation by people who cannot back up that speculation with evidence.
All the way through this saga you’ve claimed that people are bullshitting, then when it’s turned out they were right, you’ve shifted your position to needing evidence of something else while continuing to claim people are bullshitting.
The only bullshitting that’s going on here is you bullshitting yourself.
Just to clarify, I think 1prent is bullshitting when he/she tries to speak with authority about knowing Clare Curran learnt CV’s identity through the Red Alert blog. I now have even more reason to not believe The Standards administrator. I’ve always asserted that and nothing has changed. I have also learnt that it’s bullshit that the intention of Clare Curran’s letter to the Labour council was to publicly name and shame CV.
You’re welcome to point out where I’ve actually been wrong quartz?
I was pretty insistant at the time of IB’s post that the facts needed to come out. I felt that the LP was being tarred because of one MP’s bullying and that was unfair on the wider party. I still feel that way, but I now know more of the detail, though I have not seen Curran’s letter.
In summary, what I’m told is that Curran wrote to the NZ Council of the Labour Party moaning about CV. CV’s real name was not used in the letter. The NZ council threw the letter in the the big round bin, because it was just soooo stoopid.
In addition, from reading comments here, I pick up that Curran has previously, and concurrently, tried to intimidate CV in person. That intimidation has now worked, with CV being too scared to comment further. In my eyes, that makes Curran a bully and not fit to be a member of the party.
In addition, I had an interesting chat with a senior LP official that was quite illuminating. In short, it appears the party considers that the internet is only useful for sending emails. And therein lies the problem. The LP only wants the internet to be used if it can control the content. I find it distressing that such a pre-Obama mindset is in place. Its clearly one of the reasons why Labour can’t get traction in the polls; they have no modern communication strategy.
On a final note, can the Standard please drop Shearer Sezzzzz. While a member of his caucus is attacking Labour Party members here and in the msm and suppressing free speech, in solidarity with the victim/s, we should not be allowing his d’ohpinion pieces to see the light of day.
Its clearly one of the reasons why Labour can’t get traction in the polls; they have no modern communication strategy?
Have you looked at National’s woeful excuse for an interactive website? Clearly Labours modern communication strategy is light years ahead of theirs, so your claim that this is a reason for the lackluster poll results is obviously something else… Perhaps the baseless claims by various bloggers and commentators who are also Labour party members might be a more plausible reason?
Perhaps the baseless claims by various bloggers and commentators…
You mean like the letter that Curran sent to NZ Council? Why do you think that was baseless. Or do you have a yet another new explanation. Looking at your posts over the last few days it seems to me that you’re simply saying that they are baseless purely as a act of dumb and blind faith rather than thinking.
That’s nothing new, Red Alert has a policy of identifying commentators through their IP and an active email address so that their details can be passed onto the police if needed. Most blogsites automatically log such details these days.
Yeah? Link to it. Or is this just matter of you and others making crap up after the fact. I’ve been pointed out to the people at Red Alert when they started that they needed clear written down policies specifically to avoid this kind of idiotic stupidity. In fact something like your own clearly written one would have been enough.
So it wasn’t Claire Curran that named Colonial Viper, it was CV himself and other left wing bloggers. This contradicts the claims that Curran was targeting any specific dissident members of the Labour party and threatened to out them ie make their real name publicly known.
According to Clare Curran who will of course conveniently be unable to release the relevant e-mails. Of course that doesn’t explain the two cases last year that had to be done from Red Alert data.
But ignoring all that as you’re doing as being inconvenient to observe. CV told me on the Saturday morning of the conference that he’d been threatened with being outed by Curran the previous night if he didn’t vote the way that she wanted. He wasn’t representing her electorate. Now in your curious timeline, this appears to be well before the NZ Council where she was seeking ‘guidance’ on it. It was also simply outright bullying, well beyond the scope of any of the other rather intense lobbying that was going on that night (and which I suspect actually lost the caucus the vote).
What I find interesting is that you seem to be saying that members don’t have a right to debate anything about the Labour party. And yet your own Welcome states
The Jackal is a New Zealand blog for politics, satire and everything in between. We’re a light-hearted bunch and appreciate the time you take to post your ideas on this site. We think that a healthy world requires healthy debate…
Except apparently when it regards the actions of Labour MP’s. There is a word beginning with ‘H’ that seems to be dropping to my lips.. But perhaps you are merely the Pete George of the Left – pontificating because you can stretch your legs over a pungent slit toilet without ever looking or smelling at the crap below (as the walls crumble under your feet).
Could it just be that you never want to see any of these things? Or don’t you think that MP’s should be criticized for their behaviour? After all as well as representing the voters, they are also meant to represent us. And as a group they really are doing a really crappy job of it right now.
The claims that she wanted to out people are clearly a fabrication promoted by people who want to further damage Labour for some reason. Interestingly enough they’re the same so-called left wing bloggers and commentators who promoted the Cunliffe coup, which also makes me question where their loyalties lie? They clearly have no place within Labour if they constantly try to undermine the party by attacking its leadership.
Ah, you obviously didn’t read any of the posts or at least not carefully. The only post that was calling for Cunliffe as leader was by QoT, who isn’t even a Labour member. Eddie, Irish and myself were essentially saying that the caucus was out of control and that the caucus discipline was about as useless as it was possible to get. r0b and Mike wrote posts supporting the leadership (while carefully not looking at the caucus I might add)…. As far as I can see the great Cunliffe ‘coup’ was just a nice fiction for the whips to do something to clamp down on caucus. Hopefully it will improve the caucus discipline. So far that doesn’t appear to have been the case – but these are early days.
All the caucus have to do to stop attracting my ire is to stop acting like ill-disciplined dickheads. For the last 4-5 years on this site we’ve had a virtually uninterrupted series of complete screw ups from the Labour caucus that we’ve been trying to ignore or gloss over. You can see each of these screw ups displayed in large spikes in the page views for this site that I’d have preferred not to have to have dealt with.
Each time it gets keeps getting harder to explain exactly why the black comedy in Wellington has been worth supporting. And I’ll swear that the frequency of the screw ups has simply increased.
What you are objecting to are some long-time party members and supporters giving the idiots of the party who appear to be concentrated in caucus some idea of our irritation. Personally I’ve come to the conclusion that they could do with some scathing analysis of their faults because they appear to spend far too much time seeking wisdom in that little village in the mid-country. Quite a few other people appear to have hit the limits of their toleration as well.
You’re just going to have to get used to it. Because what we’re expressing is what much of the actual activists inside the party are at least thinking. And all they have to do to stop me being permanently irritated is to stop screwing up…. damnit and do their bloody job without MP’s like Jones and Curran doing something mind-numbingly stupid every other month. Hell I’m sure that most of the MP’s are sick of this continuous level of wasted opportunities.
I believe if Labour knew how to communicate well, they’d be creaming National in the polls. National and Labour are both treading water, poll wise, but it’s up to the opposition to lift their game if they want a decent majority, not just limping to a one or two seat victory.
I’m not talking about either party’s websites, I’m talking about using the internet in all its aspects, including the issue du jour; blogging. The official I spoke to was convinced that the internet was basically irrelevant, which is an astonishing position to take, IMHO. It’s far from the experience of the Obama campaigns, for example, where the ‘net was used for organising, fundraising and policy promotion. And winning elctions, obviously.
Anne: Thank you. I agree Shearer is indebted to the likes of Mallard, but I’m also convinced that the vast majority of caucus now see Shearer as their only hope of keeping their jobs. Which is terribly sad, not just because it shows a lack of ambition, but because it shows a caucus beaten down by mediocrity and malice.
Perhaps the baseless claims by various bloggers and commentators…
You mean like the letter that Curran sent to NZ Council?
No! Like your claims that Clare Curran was going to out CV and was bullying. What was there not to understand there 1prent? I’m pretty sure the letter is not proof of the claims of bullying or of how exactly Clare Curran learnt CV’s identity. It is more likely a letter to draw the problem to a head so that the Council can deal with the matter.
Or is this just matter of you and others making crap up after the fact.
Not at all, I simply read lots and remember things 1prent. Last year sometime Red Alert came under a lot of attack and it was then that they said commentators had to be real identifiable people with working email addresses. So not strictly a policy, but a clear indication that commentators would be identified. I can waste a large amount of time trying to find the actual quotes if you like (and I agree they should have an easy to find commentating policy), or you could look it up yourself.
According to Clare Curran who will of course conveniently be unable to release the relevant e-mails.
Yes! According to Clare Curren who’s a duly elected MP and somebody I have no reason to disbelieve. The relevant emails you refer to are one from CV that identifies who he is and a letter to the council. Both of these would be protected by various privacy laws and agreements.
Unfortunately for you, her statement today directly contradicts yours 1prent, I have chosen to disbelieve you… Sorry about that.
Of course that doesn’t explain the two cases last year that had to be done from Red Alert data.
Could you link to this or explain what cases you’re talking about 1prent? As an avid reader of all New Zealand blogs I fail to reference any similar cases.
Now in your curious timeline, this appears to be well before the NZ Council where she was seeking ‘guidance’ on it.
My curious timeline? I don’t recall ever providing a timeline 1prent apart from saying it has taken a very long time for CV, Irish Bill and yourself to inform us. Three weeks in fact since the Labour conference?
Could you explain the association between Clare Curran and John Tamihere that might cause her to threaten a member of the Labour party to ensure he was allowed back into Labour? You see there are many holes in your story that just don’t add up.
It was also simply outright bullying, well beyond the scope of any of the other rather intense lobbying that was going on that night.
According to CV, somebody who has been continuously negative about Labour and has also promoted numerous untruths to undermine them. You can see why I find such claims hard to believe.
What I find interesting is that you seem to be saying that members don’t have a right to debate anything about the Labour party.
What makes you think that? My argument is that you and others should be able to back up your claims with evidence, especially when you’re making such serious claims that malign an MP. You haven’t verified even a small amount of what you’re claiming 1prent.
Let me put it another way. You have often said that attacking the writers at The Standard is the best way to gain your ire. This is particularly true when those attacks are made with claims that are baseless ie not factual. To me, it appears that you’re not adhering to that philosophy by attacking Clare Curran 1prent without having any verifiable evidence for us to see to back up your claims. Therefore the word beginning with H seems to apply more succinctly to you than myself 1prent. I think you should live by, well your own standards.
We think that a healthy world requires healthy debate…
Except apparently when it regards the actions of Labour MP’s.
Healthy debate shouldn’t include speculation in order to malign an MP 1prent. Healthy debate shouldn’t include undermining a Labour MPs with claims that cannot be verified.
But perhaps you are merely the Pete George of the Left – pontificating because you can stretch your legs over a pungent slit toilet without ever looking or smelling at the crap below (as the walls crumble under your feet).
Pete George of the left? Fuck that for a joke!
If you want to trade insults… Perhaps you’re the real bully of the left 1prent. Unhappy that the candidate you supported didn’t achieve leadership. So vindictive in that disappointment as to attack the party you once supported. So deluded as to think the Greens might welcome somebody who has shown a complete lack of loyalty. Why don’t you confirm your hypocritical philosophy by banning somebody for speaking their mind 1prent, simply because they don’t agree with you.
I’m interested to know why you have copy and pasted some of my blog post about this over to here, instead of commenting at The Jackal?
Or don’t you think that MP’s should be criticized for their behaviour?
How many times do I have to say the same thing before it works its way into your cranium? I welcome criticism of MPs when it’s warranted and based on evidence. I don’t when it’s baseless and cannot be verified.
As far as I can see the great Cunliffe ‘coup’ was just a nice fiction for the whips to do something to clamp down on caucus.
And my observation was that the so-called coup was a fabrication invented by Cunliffe supporters/bloggers on The Standard, that was then picked up by the MSM.
You can see each of these screw ups displayed in large spikes in the page views for this site that I’d have preferred not to have to have dealt with.
? You don’t like the increased readership such controversy creates? Don’t make me laugh 1prent.
I’ve come to the conclusion that they could do with some scathing analysis of their faults because they appear to spend far too much time seeking wisdom in that little village in the mid-country.
Well that’s all well and good if you can back up your claims with evidence 1prent. In my opinion the claims you’re making malign Clare Curran and Labour… That in turn undermines the left wing. I’m all for harsh criticism where its due when such critisism has some semblance of evidence attached to it. Presently you’re basing your beliefs and accusations on nothing more than heresay.
You’re just going to have to get used to it. Because what we’re expressing is what much of the actual activists inside the party are at least thinking.
I should just accept claims without supporting evidence? I don’t think so 1prent. You’re wanting me to accept whatever you say without question… There’s that H word again. If you can actually supply some evidence of your claims then I’ll withdraw, but presently it appears to me you’re making shit up 1prent. In other words I’m calling you a liar!
As for claiming that other activists inside the Labour party are in agreement with you, that doesn’t particularly support your claims. As we all know, many people can be deluded, just look at who New Zealand elected as the government in 2011.
Te Reo Viper
I believe if Labour knew how to communicate well, they’d be creaming National in the polls.
I would have to agree with you then. Most political party’s have an issue with communicating with the public. Thankfully the Greens appear to have overcome that disability.
Jackal: I have misgivings about the accusations being flung around by some highly respected posters on this site. As a more distant supporter all I can see is critics of Labour who make mountains out of scraps of real or imagined faults and which sound so much like the NAct trolls. To me regardless of the justification they seem intent on undoing any Labour solidarity at a critical time in the cycle.
So by 2014 the cry will go up that they have won a huge victory, and that victory will to have split the Party into factions – and been wiped of the Electoral platform.
Solidarity wins Elections. Being Fractionated doesn’t.
If she had released any of my details she would be explaining to the Police and as many Lawyers I could get to roast her ass..
Time to resign Curren, as this is the sort of cyber bullying is just what we are supposed to be teaching our children NOT to do. And here we have a Member of Parliament doing it. Nope sorry immediate resignation, because a slapping down from Shearer ain’t going to happen, because he’s too weak, when faced with the ‘old guard’.
I’m not sure this is covered by the Privacy Act. Neither the Labour party website nor Red Alert have visible privacy policies. They’re private organisations. Do they have a legal obligation to not make use of private details like email addresses or IPs?
Yes. I don’t have time to lay my hands on the detail, but in NZ law you have to give explicit permission for whatever private information that you give to be used for other than the purpose for which it was given. The act for that went through in either the late 90’s or early 00’s. (my brain is fried with coding)
There is probably a massive grey area around IP’s as they are almost an artefact of the process rather than something you give voluntarily. There is no such grey area around e-mails.
However I also seem to recall that there is a major set of exemptions around political parties…
” but in NZ law you have to give explicit permission for whatever private information that you give to be used for other than the purpose for which it was given.”
Not sure that’s quite it. The person/organisation who holds the information can release it if they genuinely believe that the person who the information is about would be ok with that (that’s me badly paraphrasing, I think it’s more that they are unaware of any reason why the person wouldn’t want the information released). This is why medical records can be shared between practitioners without specific, explicit permission. It happens all the time. It’s also why many organisations are now routinely asking patients/clients to sign generic (usually badly worded and without information) consent forms to share information with whoever they want in order to provide service.
What I am unclear about is whether a Labour Party member posting at Red Alert would be considered to have given implicit permission by being part of the Labour Party (given that Red Alert is a Labour blog). I’m thinking no in terms of the intention of the privacy act, but unclear about how that would play out in reality.
Re the emails, does that mean releasing email addresses to spammers is illegal, unless someone has given permission?
Not sure that’s quite it. The person/organisation who holds the information can release it if they genuinely believe that the person who the information is about would be ok with that (that’s me badly paraphrasing, I think it’s more that they are unaware of any reason why the person wouldn’t want the information released). This is why medical records can be shared between practitioners without specific, explicit permission. It happens all the time. It’s also why many organisations are now routinely asking patients/clients to sign generic (usually badly worded and without information) consent forms to share information with whoever they want in order to provide service.
No. Medical records and information are also covered by the Health Code. Patients / clients must give consent for their health information to be released or shared. While generally there may be a blanket consent process in place, usually at the time a person registers into a health service, that blanket does not extend towards granting everyone within the health service access to a person’s health information. The obligation on the health service is to protect the privacy of health information from anyone not directly involved in the care of the person concerned.
Should there be a need to discuss someone’s health information as part of a wider forum identity (name) is removed.
Nevertheless, health practitioners routinely share information without explicit permission. This is because when you share information with your GP, it is assumed that you are ok with your GP sharing that information with whoever they deem needs it. Happens all the time. My understanding is that the Privacy Act doesn’t say don’t share information without express permission, it says you can share information if you have no good reason to believe the person wouldn’t want it shared. Hence a GP can send medical records to a hospital but not a newpaper, because it is assumed that the patient would be ok with the first but not the second.
(and this is why, as mentioned, some health organisations now ask patients to sign generic waivers when they first become clients. They usually contain the phrase something like “we may not be able to provide this service without this permission” which is coercive and complete crap. They don’t usually point out that it’s entirely optional).
Likewise, if someone shares information with the Labour Party (name, address etc), it’s probably assumed that the Labour Party can share that information within its own systems, but not hand that information over the the Greens, or a mail order company. The reason the former is ok, is because it’s assumed that the person supplying information about themselves will be ok with this.
Not sure how many people realise this, but when you share information with your GP you are in fact sharing it with the practice as a whole not the individual doctor. Likewise, it might be that sharing information with Red Alert is seen to be sharing information with Labour as a whole. Still a shitty and unethical practice, but not sure it’s illegal.
While generally there may be a blanket consent process in place, usually at the time a person registers into a health service, that blanket does not extend towards granting everyone within the health service access to a person’s health information.
When I signed up with a new clinic, I didn’t sign anything that gave consent for the clinic to share information outside of the clinic. But the clinic considers it has the right to do so (and afaik the law supports this). This doesn’t mean that any old person in the health system can ask for information about me and be given it, but if for instance a specialist wants some information about me from my GP file, they will go straight to the GP practice, they won’t come to me. Actually they will come to me in my case, because I make sure that every person I give info to knows that they have to consult with me before sharing information. But if I didn’t do that, the law says that if the practitioner has no good reason to think I wouldn’t want the relevant information shared, then they can share it.
(1) A health agency that holds health information must not disclose the information unless the agency believes, on reasonable grounds, that—
(a) the disclosure is to—
(i) the individual concerned; or
(ii) the individual’s representative where the individual is dead or is unable to exercise his or her rights under these rules; or
(b) the disclosure is authorised by—
(i) the individual concerned; or
(ii) the individual’s representative where the individual is dead or is unable to give his or her authority under this rule; or
(2) Compliance with subrule (1)(b) is not necessary if the health agency believes on reasonable grounds that it is either not desirable or not practicable to obtain authorisation from the individual concerned and that—
(a) the disclosure of the information is directly related to one of the purposes in connection with which the information was obtained; or
That is my point. A health system cannot share a person’s health information to anyone unrelated to that person’s care or treatment. When I visit a GP she / he tells me what she / he intends to do in terms of my care including seeking the advice of a specialist. When I visit the specialist she / he explains to me the steps necessary for my treatment including what other specialities may be consulted in respect to my treatment.
At all points along the care pathway I have a absolute right to be fully informed on any matter pertaining to my care and an absolute expectation that whomever gets to view my health information is a necessary part of that care pathway. The passages that you quote simply confirms:
That a health agency must disclose a person’s health information to the person concerned, or to their representative (next of kin or spouse) if they should happen to be dead or dying, or by authorisation (usually in written form).
2(a) reaffirms that the information cannot be released to all and sundry and should only be released to those agencies or others directly involved in that person’s treatment or care.
Privacy of other types of personal information follows a similar logic.
Um – just to throw another spanner in the works, the Health Act also allows personal information to be gathered from any source by the minister’s various review committees, e.g. mortality review committees. This is distinct from coronial and police investigations. And the powers under the Health Act are significantly more extensive than criminal investigations.
I think we are talking at cross purposes here. My point was that information can be shared without express permission. We see that in the health system, and I suspect that information sharing between Red Alert and the rest of Labour would be considered legal in the same way as it is in the health system. I don’t know for sure, but I’m not yet convinced that such sharing would be illegal.
Re the Health System, I think you are talking about best practice. Many times however information is shared, as a matter of course or in unusual ways, without the patient being aware, and certainly not with express permission. For many patients this is not a problem. For others it is.
well, I’m somewhat surprised that CV is a member, given his comments (especially about Shearer). If I were that pissed off I’d have gone somewhere else long ago.
Be that as it may, the next time someone rips shit out of someone for not having the “guts” to use our real names, this is another clear example as to why those with less power need to be able to speak publicly without fear of repercussions from those with more power.
Curran’s been solid but unspectacular as an electorate MP, from what I’ve seen. But as a politician, she seems to be well accommodated in the vindictive area, but undersupplied with tact, strategic foresight and discretion.
Not going somewhere else may involve holding one’s party to account. If there is no hope of that, what hope is there that one will hold one’s party in government to account?
true, but when the parting of ways reaches a certain level, surely one should choose another party that is closer to one’s beliefs rather than flogging a dead horse.
but undersupplied with tact, strategic foresight and discretion.
That’s funny! That’s how I would currently describe CV, 1prent, Irish Bill and others when they chose to publish lots of speculation and then weren’t able to back it up with any evidence. I’m still waiting for that evidence to show Clare Curran was going to publicly name CV after finding out his identity through comments at Red Alert?
Holding a political party to account is all well and good Jim Viperald, but blaming Shearer for what previous Labour governments have done (which was always the main crux of CV’s argument) isn’t particularly beneficial to the party he signed up for. Being that there are alternatives, it appears CV is/was a member only in order to gain information to complain about, and much of his complaining was baseless!
“John Key is a better politician than David Shearer”, C’mon CV… Cat got your tongue?
Jackal, your allegations of speculation are themselves speculations. Perhaps you just aren’t in the loop.
My accusations aren’t speculations because Clare Curran has confirmed much of my argument by refuting the speculation that has been made here on The Standard.
The desperate scramble for relevance. Sad but true?
Um! Just in case you haven’t noticed, I’m an anonymous blogger One Tāne Viper. Relevance ie recognition is clearly not what I want to achieve. Perhaps you might like to actually debate the issues instead of resorting to stupid personal insults?
IrishBill
You sound desperate Jackel. For someone who’s not even a member you seem to have a lot invested in denying what’s right in front of you. What’s up with that?
Isn’t it obvious? I’m concerned with so-called Labour activists undermining their own party with what appears to be baseless speculation to the detriment of the entire left wing. It’s not desperation and you haven’t presented any evidence for it to be “right in front” of me IrishBill.
By all means perform harakiri on yourselves sometime in the future, in other words when I’ve had enough time to ensure the Greens have enough support to be the main opposition party in New Zealand.
You sound desperate Jackel. For someone who’s not even a member you seem to have a lot invested in denying what’s right in front of you. What’s up with that?
Apparently the PM is royly plezed with the downstream benefits of the success of the Hobbit and Warner studios here. Any truth in the rumour that the producers of the Muppets are being invited here. They certainly have a ready cast awaiting them. Any suggestions as to who might play the leading roles
It’s not that bad I admit the lappie is a bit hard to use in bed, but way easier than using my Smartphone. I gotta Blog in bed as I gave up the Ciggies 🙂
Trotter’s piece seems to confirm what was seen when Labour was last in power. And is confirmed by this vipergate shit. And was seen in Trotter’s example of Lange and Prebble etc.
That is ……. the Labour party people resist having to abide by the decisions of the people. They resist democratic principles. This is what the accusation was during Clark’s term – that they were too busybody, telling people what to do and wear and eat and shit. Bossy school teachers (apologies to our fine teachers…) treating everybody else like a class of school children.
And still it goes on.
How on earth can Labour claim to be a party of the people when it resists listening to and being directed by the people?
I have seen a chain of emails from/to an active LP member who was barred from RedAlert last year because of comments she made on the Standard during the Leadership battle.
The chain includes emails to/from Trevor Mallard, Moira Coatsworth and Grant Robertson.
The practice of looking in RedAlerts for real names, electorates and email addresses of people who are critical of certain party MPs is openly admitted.
Shearer was a c.c. in some. Prior to the barring, the information was used in an approach to the member’s nearest MP.
Robertson saw no problems with the practice and effectively endorsed it. Mallard administered the practice. Moira was aware of the practice. Clare Curran is just one of the cast in this farce.
Has Winston Peter’s crossed the line by allegedly leaking sources phone numbers?
Reading an article on Stuff today regarding allegations Winston Peters leaked not just the TAB phone records to the media, but also contact details of individuals is appalling.
My opinion below what do you think?
I find any leaking of private phone numbers to be totally unacceptable. Brendan is quite right, some taxpayers have phone conversations with members of Parliament in the MP’s capacity as spokesperson’s on various portfolio’s. In Brendan case one of his roles was as NZ First’s industrial relations spokesperson.
At times information could be regarded as sensitive and an expectation is that the call is in ‘confidence.’
Winston Peters should know some sources may ‘expect’ a high degree of confidentiality. Certainly ‘not’ to have their contact phone numbers handed over to the media, if this is true?
Having had phone conversations with Brendan in his capacity as a NZFirst spokesperson on industrial relations, I am mortified to hear these allegations & will give consideration to ‘laying a complaint’ if my rights have been breached?
p.s Bret your opinion is yesterday’s news so spare us your opinion son!
Winston Peters is above the law –
in HIS party he is the almighty, and will continue to do whatever suits him under Parliamentary Privilege.
Ask him when is he going to pay back the $148,000 he stole from the taxpayers.
This continuous undermining of David Cunliffe is so wearying, destructive and stupid. Shearer should be brave and attempt to unite the caucus rather than allowing this continuous undermining to occur. If he does not the party is going to go through a rough time.
Mmm it says Parker was sitting in the Chairperon seat when Cunliffe arrived.
That is surprising from Parker. I’ve only experienced courtesy and impeccable manners from him.
Perhaps he too is being bullied? I suspect he was told that Shearer or Hipkins had sanctioned it
There is some serious petty bad-attitude from sone staffers in the Labour offices in Parliament.
People can say what they like about Heather Simpson nut she would never have allowed the buggers muddle that is the current Labour caucus and staffers to have occurred during her time.
The nicest interpretation for Parker is that some underling said “Oh hey David P, you’re taking over from David C at that meeting” and he assumed this meant it had all been sorted out with David C.
‘ Shearer should be brave and attempt to unite the caucus rather than allowing this continuous undermining to occur.’
LOL mickey, what like his immediate stamping on all those caucus leaks or his strong leadership in reigning the loose Curran and co in so he looks in control and electable.
Works as per specification, just what the hollowmen ordered.
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“…a member was expressing views anonymously, in a way in which was intended to damage other party members and the party overall.”
“Intended”? This snivelling wretch thinks she’s entitled to her own facts?
Let’s be clear about this: Curran is personally responsible for any “damage” that ensues from her authoritarian brain fart. She is the disease in the Labour Party.
A negotiation heard between Lucifer and St Peter recently.
(St P) Watch that Labour Caucus go, they really desire power…now that’s a good thing is’nt it?
(L) Lust in my book
(St P) And look how they turned off that challenge from the members, a quick vote and all, clever?
(L) Yes, eating too eagerly of their power, Gluttony no less, had their cake and ate it too. Nice bit of trickery and manipulation of their authority, very devilish losing the floor vote to the members then kicking them in the teeth with a quick Caucus vote…grabbed far more power than they needed…now that’s Greed in my book.
(St P) Yes, but in doing that they failed to act on democratic principle, or even within the spirit of what the Party at large asked of them.
(L) Yes that is Sloth, a failure to do what you should.
(St P) And sort of vindictive?
(L) Yes, full of Wrath. Nice bit of nastiness.
(St P) And now they have one of them outing the members on a blog and attempting to “discipline” them.
(L) Quite so, now they have tasted blood they show an insatiable desire for more, they covet power , they want what the membership took back. That’s pure Envy.
(St P) And that particular MP, she is pushing her way to the top over the bodies of bloggers etc, she thinks she knows best, that she is more important?.
(L) Yes, the deadliest of all sins, Pride. I win their souls with a full set of the Seven Deadly Sins.
(St P) Looks like as you say “The Devil take the hindmost”……no argument from me on this lot.
Clare Curran: latest (immensely unsurprising) addition to the list of People Who Don’t Fucking Understand The Difference Between Anonymous and Pseudonymous.
The clue is that if it were truly anonymous, Clare, you wouldn’t have a pseudonym to bully people over.
I see the government is looking at legal action against those responsible for the CTV building collapse in the Christchurch earthquake (among others).
If only the government itself would take responsibility in the exact same way for its exact same failings. i.e. changes and failings around mine safety regulations which led directly to the deaths of 29 men at Pike River.
The Ministers of the Crown who oversaw those mine safety regulations being changed, ignored, reviewed etc are directly culpable for the deaths of those men. What say you Gerry Brownlee, kate Wilkinson, and those others back in the 90s? You caused death by your actions and non-actions. Gonna stand up and be responsible?
yeah right
Kind of funny how you include the recent National ministers then the 90s government but no mention of the Labour government in the middle. Surely if the ministers of the 90s are directly culpable you should also be calling for the early 00s ministers to be held accountable as well.
It appears that Tau Henare has thrown in the towel in His bid to become Speaker of the Parliament, within His abdication statement Tau is muttering darkly about the Maori Party promising to support Him in His bid for the Speakers job and then not doing so,
Gosh politics,never a dull moment and i would like to take a moment here to fall about the place in gales of mad laughter at the poetic nature of such a snubbing, previous NZFirst voters will also, along with Winston be having one hell of a giggle about Tau’s latest failure to rise, (perhaps a extra teaspoon of baking powder might help),
Tau doesn’t seem to have the ability to see that His particular place on the National Party list is there solely by dint of His previous desertion of the voters who elected Him to the Parliament in the first place as a NZFirst MP where He set about on a mission of destruction by quitting that Party along with 4 of its MPs,
Face it Tau, you have been well rewarded by National for the previous hatchet job on NZFirst, you don’t seriously believe that they are now going to give you any position of actual power do you….
To SHG (Not Colonial Viper). If you read the Dom Post story carefully, you’ll see Parker was already in Cunliffe’s seat when C turned up at the meeting. That itells me this was a “set up”. And what is the dithering Leader doing when his staff DECIDE who can sit on a Trust without his knowledge – why wasn’t he involved in that decision ? Definitely a set up. And yes, I think the nasty sods can kick a man when he’s down. I watched them do it, over and over again, in caucus
– to David Lange. This is almost the last straw for me : I’ve stopped my VFL, and I’m not going to be delivering or organising delivery of any pamphlets after the New Year ! or anything else for that matter. Its time NZ Council got serious with these rogue MPs, and told the ditherer to reinstate Cunliffe. Until they do so, that VFL remains stopped.
One interesting clanger by the Prime Minister has emerged in the judgment. He filed an affidavit in the case that said the following:
“Ministers were clear throughout the process that particular Māori iwi/hapū have rights and interests in specific water and geothermal resources in rohe. If the applicants are seeking to suggest otherwise that is simply wrong”.
I have tried to but no matter how hard I try I cannot reconcile this statement by Key with his comment that “no one owns water”.
I see Crusher Collins does not agree with the high court Judge they employed from Canada to look into compensation for David Bain. Now doesn’t that sound familiar and usual from these right wing arseoles. I remember Justice Mahon who gave a verdict which has been proved to be correct on the DC10 crash on Mt Erebus when he said there was a litany of lies. Muldoom nearly feel out of his tree as this was not the answer that Mahon was employed to give. This is why Crusher Collins is seeking “further” advice because the right wing shit have not got the answer they wanted. She will “seek” advice until they find someone who will give them the answer they want. And that is don’t pay Bain a penny
Fucking arseoles I don’t know if Bain is guilty or not, but like Ellis they have been found “NOT GUILTY” and have spent a considerable amount of their time incarcerated They deserve something.
The National Party and in particular Judith Collins are acting more and more like the German National Socialist politicians of the late 1930′s. Collins, herself a second rate lawyer, has the audacity to belittle the retired Puisne Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, Ian Binnie; doe’s Collins really believe that her blatant political interference will be seen for anything other than what it is?
All she will achieve, with this latest fiasco, is to yet again bring New Zealand’s legal system into disrepute, cause international observers to conclude that the country’s Parliament and so called democracy is a fucking joke….an international laughing stock!
The Justice Binnie’s report needs to be released immediately so that tax paying New Zealander’s (the people that are funding the Beehives vendetta) can make up their own minds – What is Judith Collins trying to conceal by hiding the report?
Faith in Lynn. And non-permanent IPs, and non-obvious email addresses (e.g. not j.smith@… but mcflock@… or similar). Not perfect, but at least makes it slightly difficult.
The thing is that someone could still narrow me down to a few folk from my comments, but they will still be guessing. So my comments won’t be bringing my employer into disrepute, or whatever some tory (or wannabe machiavelli in Labour caucus) would try to fuck me with for no good reason.
Working on it. Because of the proposed “cyber bullying” bill and it’s innovative approach to removing the ‘anonomity’ on psuedonyms I will be removing all identifying information on this aite into non reversible hashes. A complaint seems to be all that will actually be required as far as I can tell for whatever structure happens to force me to reveal ino otherwise. This means that all identifying information will be transitory in nature and would require direct control of the server or man in the middle access – both of which are far more difficult than a enforceable order by a quango.
It will be a bit more awkward to moderate, but the would have happened anyway as more people went ipv6 on the site.
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Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Genterwocky After a hard days marching, Sir Doocey calls in at the Village Tavern For a pint of ale and a pork pie. The grim villagers stare at him. “Do not be travelling on the forest road,” warns a crusty old beak. “And why is that, antique peasant?” Grins Sir ...
Political conferences after a party returns to power are usually a chance for some healthy, even unhealthy backslapping. Yet National Party president Sylvia Wood’s address to its mainland representatives on Saturday hardly contained the unalloyed delight that one might have expected following National’s escape from the wilderness of opposition. Yes, ...
Comment: Almost half the world is voting in national elections this year and artificial intelligence is the elephant in the room. There are genuine fears AI-generated or AI-edited deepfakes will potentially manipulate election outcomes not just in the US and UK, but critically in countries such as India. For that ...
Ahead of the reality franchise’s return to New Zealand, allow us to introduce the eight brides and grooms. Chuck on a veil and tie back your man bun, because it’s time to say “I do” to a new season of Married at First Sight NZ. The reality TV “social experiment” ...
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Tracy Watkins wrote the following in the Dominion Post on the 21st November.
“What would it take to quieten Camp Cunliffe after Labour’s pro forma backing of David Shearer? An olive branch, and preferably with the heads of Trevor Mallard, Annette King and Phil Goff skewered on it.
Because the tussle between Camp Cunliffe and Camp Shearer is not just over performance, or personality, though both are big factors behind the train wreck leading up to yesterday’s 100 per cent backing of Mr Shearer.
It is also about direction and resentment within parts of Labour at the role played by the “old guard” in last year’s leadership run-off.”
So what effort has there been by “the old guard” to extend an olive branch?
Has an ’eminent arbitrator’ been been sent to look for middle ground for the sake of the country?
Have the supporters of Cunliffe been asked into Shearer’s office for a team-building chat?
Me thinks not. Why, you ask!
The mindset behind the Tamihere affair and the Curran bullying plan indicates that the Caucus leadership is pushing further and harder down the anti “vox populi” road.
The common themes in these two messes are rejection of the members preferences and brow beating of the NZ Council. Those themes align with the Caucus leadership’s fury over the 40/60 threshold vote at Conference and the demotion of Cunliffe for this “defeat”.
So, the party needs to find a path that binds the wounds and stops the Tamihere and Curran style hara-kiri acts of the current Caucus leadership.
If the membership are to be denied involvement in a February selection process then, in return, they have to see a new modus-vivendi for the whole Caucus.
A February 100% endorsement of Shearer without any change to the composition, mind-set and behaviour of the current Caucus Leadership will have a withering effect on the membership. Cynicism, resignation, defection and revulsion will weaken the party very significantly.
That type of no-vote/no change scenario in February is not an option.
Moira Coatsworth, Tim Barnett, senior NZ Council members and former MPs must intervene to break this deadlock.
Watch out Khandalla Man. Clare will be out to get you …
The reality on the streets of Dunedin South is – to put it very politely and in the most generous terms – that voters in the electorate have experienced growing distance with the MP.
From past voting figures, the Labour predecessor won a significant number of votes and held an impressive majority, while maintaining or even improving both the electorate and party votes at those levels (1999 – 2005).
However, the numbers in this dark red Labour bastion have dropped quite noticeably under the current MP’s watch in terms of the electorate vote for the MP and, very worryingly, Labour’s party vote which was just recently LOST to National!
Party vote:
The predecessor oversaw a significant 10,656 party vote majority (in 2005).
Under the current MP’s watch, the party vote plummeted by about 3,000 votes (in 2008), and then last year, fell more dramatically by 5,000 votes with the result that the party vote was LOST (!!!) to National. National won the party vote with a majority of 1,837.
Electorate vote:
The electorate votes dropped by about a thousand for the MP’s first election (from the predecessor’s 20,033 in 2005 to 19,199 votes in 2008), and despite having the advantage of being a sitting member, this MP’s electorate votes fell some more by another 2,355 (to 16,844) last year.
At the rate things are trending for this MP, the future might see Labour lose also the electorate vote.
deep red, rather
I live and breath south d everyday, I’ve been deep red labour since high school, but enough is enough, we need an functioning party, an inclusive vibrant energised organised with modern operational tecniques. There are people on the sideline who can will and want to contribute and bring about a labour victory NOW.
I’m a professional of sorts, educated in operational management and marketing and have a skill set that is in dire need but dismayed at the power clique, the knive plays, the gate keepers and revolving chairperson positions.
I have witnessed the rock solid safe seat of Dunedin south turn blue….CC lost the party vote.
My eye weeped red blood tears at state of this once proud and strong seat.
Now I’ve met CC a nice caring too be sure person who has paid her dues but enough is enough.
A symptom of the misguided philosophy that has been adopted by the elite parliament wing which have devolved the party to merely silent letterbox stuffers.
The Tories in my electorate where more organised connected resourced and more flexible -they won….learn CC and take it too the Tories NOW.
“I have witnessed the rock solid safe seat of Dunedin south turn blue….CC lost the party vote.
My eye weeped red blood tears at state of this once proud and strong seat”
Yes, some major reconnecting and rebuilding needed.
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/238634/curran-hits-out-online-critics
Ms Curran responds.
Interestingly, she says is concerned about bloggers criticising “other party members”. This convenient demotion of herself, other MPS and party management, to mere members for the purposes of spin really pisses me off. It is outright dishonest to deliberately misrepresent the power relations in the issue, and to pretend that serious political criticism is a personal matter between members.
Also, she claims to have found CV’s identity from personal emails from CV to her*, rather than via red-alert. I suspect this may be untrue. Will be interesting to watch this unfold.
*I’d be gobsmacked if CV has sent any emails signed-off as CV. Comparing email addresses between RA and MP correspondance is a completely different animal.
lol @ cc.
fta: “Ms.Curran said she had sought discussion at the party council level about what was an ”acceptable” standard of behaviour, particularly when a member was expressing views anonymously, in a way in which was intended to damage other party members and the party overall.” [emph. mine]
Big claim, cc. Hope you have some solid examples of that.
And it would be much clearer if she just released the letter she wrote to council, rather than just characterising it.
It really would.
Clare, let’s have the letter out in the open so no-one can accuse you of sniping from behind closed doors in a way that could be construed as intending to damage other party members and the party overall.
pic related
You want an MP to release a private letter from a party member in breach of confidentiality laws? What a couple of morons!
No, a i’m suggesting an MP release a letter she wrote about party members to the council. She is busy saying what the letter contains, so why not release it?
What letter are you on about?
The MP can release her letter of complaint which she talks about so much, without revealing, or causing to be revealed, the identity of any pseudonymised blogger.
Or she may agree that those who are in receipt of her complaint letter may release that letter on request, while protecting the identity of the blogger.
I don’t think it’s legal to publicly release the correspondence from CV that identified him from personal emails without his permission to do so, and I don’t think it’s ethical to release a private email from Clare Curran to Labours council concerning how the party might deal with cyberwarfare. These are both private matters.
Only a moron would think that some of the comments on The Standard weren’t designed to damage Labour.
There are no two ways about this. Even my less interested colleagues and friends can see the bullying, threatening and gagging that is driving the complaint letter. This is continuing to reflect poorly on the MP, the leadership and the party overall.
Way to sidestep the issue of wanting private correspondence publicly release… But since you have obviously attained the letter yourself to be able to make such grandiose claims, why don’t you release it Jim Viperald? What’s that… You don’t actually have the letter? “Bullying, threatening and gagging” are pretty big claims to make about a letter that you’ve never even read eh!
I hope you are reading your own comments when you type them, as well as what others have written.
Only an authoritarian would attempt to discipline someone for their “intention”.
So if a party member is intent on damaging the party they belong to, should the party still accept them no questions asked One Tāne Viper? The intention was to damage Labour, whether the subsequent actions have actually damaged Labour is debatable.
How do you know the intention was to damage?
For example, my saying I think Shearer is a mumbling bumbling disaster is an attempt to improve the Labour Party, not damage it.
There are rules in place to discipline or expel members who bring the party into disrepute, for example, but they say nothing about “intention” because intention is basically impossible to prove.
I contend that John Tamihere, for example, had the intention of boosting his own fragile ego and expressing his puerile opinions, but he was expelled for the disrepute he brings to the party, not his “intentions”
There’s a huge divide between creative criticism and criticism for the sake of it One Tāne Viper… And clearly that’s a decision for Labour to make, which is obviously why Clare Curran was seeking further advice on the issue.
Hence the relevant test is “to bring into disrepute”, not “to intend to bring into disrepute”.
PS: “seeking further advice”. That’s a very pretty spin you’ve got there. Have you seen her letter so that you can make such a bold interpretation of her intent?
You’re playing with semantics One Tāne Viper. Someone can intend and attempt to bring a political party into disrepute… Whether they succeed or fail doesn’t detract from their initial intention, an intention that most bonafide members of a political party wouldn’t dream of.
You contend that I don’t know the content of the letter Curran wrote to Labours council, so cannot say if she was simply seeking advice or not. That to me would seem like the most plausible thing to do, for an MP to seek advice about members of their political party that were bringing that party into disrepute through access to information that only a member could have.
MP’s must at all time ensure that they and the party they belong to aren’t brought into disrepute whether this is actual or only perceived. In effect Clare Curran was trying to adhere to that rule by informing the council of the problem so that they could make an informed decision in order to reduce the amount of damage some bloggers and commentators were causing to the Labour party. Perhaps you don’t like my argument because it is too reasonable and not controversial enough?
You’re argument amounts to; none of the comments on The Standard matter and nobody believes what is written here anyway so they couldn’t have caused harm to the Labour party. Unfortunately this recent spat of infighting somewhat validates your argument One Tāne Viper.
Do you mean “invalidates”?
“Plausible” – speculation!
“Intention” – impossible to ascertain without a specific statement of intent.
“Disrepute” – how does demanding open debate and a more democratic party constitute disrepute?
“Damage” – if the Labour Party can be damaged by public debate, the Labour Party is the problem, not the debate.
My argument amounts to – “The Standard is an open forum devoted to political debate, which cannot be anything but healthy, and those who seek to attack it belong in a wingnut gulag like the National Party, not the left.” FIFY.
lol
+1
Another pretty decent semantic argument there One Tāne Viper, however the intentions were obviously acted upon. Besides, intent is still viewed as a crime under current law… And obviously people who intend to undermine Labour shouldn’t be member’s of the party.
I really don’t get where anyone can say CV had the intent to undermine Labour. Clare Curran and co may feel that what he writes does that, and that his words were ill-considered (I don’t think that btw) but imo in no way did he intend to undermine the party.
He advocated for membership and left wing values. If that doesn’t suit the current leadership that still doesn’t mean he intended to undermine the party.
And she’s being disingenuous when she is complaining that he is aiming at other party members. The barbs were directed at her and other right-leaning labourites in caucus. She in turn should be aiming to the right with her own barbs, not to the left, and maybe we’ll all be a bit happier.
But CV’s stated intentions weren’t to “undermine” labour, but to improve it. And his comments, while strong, were pretty consistent with that intent.
There is a difference between criticizing the performance of elected representatives and simply referring to party members as “frontbums” or whatever JT’s wording was.
I’m still at a loss to know why you think Clare Curran’s letter to the council was about CV?
It might be easier for some commentators here at The Standard to use CV as an example, but as far as I can tell Clare Curran hasn’t sought disciplinary action against any particular individual.
So why are you now saying my commentary about people who attempt to damage a party they belong to is strictly talking about CV rosy viper?
I must have missed that comment, care to link to it McFliper? People can state their intentions and then do the complete opposite btw, just look at what National promised before the last election.
Hey Jackel.
Have you read the letter? If not why are you going out so far on a limb? Perhaps you should read it first and then comment.
I really don’t get where anyone can say CV had the intent to undermine Labour.
Clare Curran thinks that the Green Party releasing policies which attract Labour voters is “undermining Labour”, so anything’s possible when she’s involved.
Tell you what:
I’ll go back over the arguments I’ve had with CV over the last 3 months just to link to some of the numerous comments where he said Labour should follow policies xyz in order to INCREASE labour support…
…When you supply the content of Curran’s email that you have been so earnestly defending here.
“Pete G of the left” indeed.
I don’t think it’s legal to publicly release the correspondence from CV that identified him from personal emails without his permission to do so, and I don’t think it’s ethical to release a private email from Clare Curran to Labours council concerning how the party might deal with cyberwarfare. These are both private matters.
The only letter anyone suggested releasing was the one from Curran to the council. She has been describing the contents of that letter. It is the contents of that letter that are in dispute. Releasing it would clear things up.
I’d also suggest that there is a public interest, and at least the membership would have access to Council documents? It would have been minuted by the Council secretary?
Yes! So if that letter is already accessible to party members, why don’t the party members who are claiming such things point to the actual paragraphs where Clare Curran says she will name and shame CV etc? That would constitute evidence, and that’s what is currently missing from this debate.
lol
“Public” as well as “party” interest.
Although if council correspondence were genuinely available to the membership, chances are a copy would have already been leaked…
I thought it already had, with Eddie writing:
Or is this just more speculation?
Um Jackel you are drawing a lot of conclusions from something you have not seen.
There is no way that CV wanted or intended to or did damage the party. All he has done is engage in robust debate.
The party has always enjoyed robust debate. You only have to attend a good old fashioned meeting of trade unionists to understand what has always gone on.
And the debate here has reflected this.
Curran’s attempt to stifle this debate is rather bizarre. And to allow Tamihere back into the party despite what he said yet punish CV for something he may think is weird.
As for the letter why shouldn’t members be allowed to see it? We have a say in constitution of the party list and on selection of MPs so any evidence about their approach to things is relevant.
You only had to attend Labour Party conferences in the 70s and early to mid 80s to recognise that the robust debates on the conference floor (Wellington Town Hall – remember folks?) have now been transferred to the internet. As a supposed expert in communications, one would think CC could have figured that one out for herself!
“Supposed”
I think you may have hit the nail on the head there Anne.
mickyviper in solidarity
As are others… The difference being that my conclusions align with what Clare Curran has been reported as saying and they do not malign a Labour party MP.
It appears that Clare Curran’s letter wasn’t specifically about CV, and it’s difficult to say what his intentions were when he made numerous claims that clearly undermined David Shearer. In my opinion there was no positive aspect to many of CV’s critical comments.
I don’t think Clare Curran was trying to stifle debate, I think she was wanting to limit the damage to Labour that has occurred through the leaking of information by party members.
CV being punished by Clare Curran or CV self flagellating? I agree that letting Tamihere back into the party was weird.
Perhaps because it might involve potential policy that hasn’t been properly devised yet? I think the council should be given a chance to consult and then present a potential solution to the party’s membership first, that way nobody can claim things from what amounts to a private conversation in correspondence.
It’s also a private letter between Clare Curran and the council. They’re under no obligation to release it even to the membership.
Having said that I think the claims that have been made about what the letter might contain are probably more detrimental than what the letter is actually likely to contain, so it should be released.
Bullshit. It’s a letter to a representative committee. As inward correspondence it should be on record for membership.
There is no such thing as “private” correspondence to representative committees.
Or if you are sophisticated, comparing the IP numbers in the header of emails against ones at red alert – which is pretty trivial.
Based on the known misuses that went on at Red Alert last year, Occams razor would tend to suggest the simplier explanation of technical means is a damn sight more likely than someone referring to themselves by their psuedonym in a email. Matching email addresses or IPs for a admin at RedAlert is a hell of a lot more likely.
But I suspect it isn’t that likely he was signed as colonial viper. We know that CC spoke to CV about being CV in person on at least one occasion. When she was threatening to “out” him during lobbying at this years conference.
In any case, he was operating under a psuedonym all and saying no more than you’d expect a party member to say. If describing the deficiencies of last years campaign is making the party lok bad, then the MP’s and their staff should look in a frigging mirror.
Quite simply you kind of think that Clare and some of the other MP’s would prefer that we were mindless bots…
Having reread the article I linked to, with the benefit of one and a half coffees on board, I see, Curran claims that CV was open with her about his online identity, in correspondance, and in person. Can we get a confirm or deny on this particular matter?
edit I see Lprent has suggested that the so-called conversations in which CV identified himself, were, in fact one occasion in which Curran identified CV , and threatened him with it.
I had a conversation with CC just after the last election and I stated I posted on TS and she then bugged me to disclose the online pseudo name of the said person involved here who,s real name is still held in confidence by the few who know.
So the knives were out at that time.
Long live CV and freedom to speak and critique in a constructive and reasoned manner.
“A damn sight more likely” or just more speculation without any evidence from you 1prent?
Problem is that there have been similar leaks like this from people at Red Alert in the past. One resulted in someone losing their job.
Basically when it comes to breaches on the net, you have to look at what is likely from the access and what has happened in the past. The presumption is that there won’t be any definitive proof and usually the behaviours are not illegal. So you warn people about likely idiotic behaviours instead.
Some people running Red Alert have been doing some seriously stupid stuff for quite some time. Threatening to out people for mere political advantage kind of tops even the previous low of getting someone fired for comments that they left on RA.
I’m merely voicing my opinion on exactly how people should avoid such arseholes of the net. If you don’t trust me to recognize such fools, then that is your problem. Go leave comments there.
Having reread the article I linked to, with the benefit of one and a half coffees on board, I see, Curran claims that CV was open with her about his online identity, in correspondance, and in person. Can we get a confirm or deny on this particular matter?
It would be pretty unlikely. CV changed from a previous psuedonym because he thought it had been compromised by the right. At the time I told him that it was unwise to tell anyone.
From what I understand she has reversed the order of events. She asked if he was CV after getting it from other means, and he confirmed it after she pestered. After all what would a Labour MP do to Labour member, right? You can trust them right?
Evidently not.
Edit: pesky iPad.
That’s pretty much what I was told. Given her apparent unrepentant attitude, I will reveal something else. The pestering started well before the Conference.
This is what can happen when individuals are parachuted in from elsewhere… without having gone through the normal process of climbing the party ladder and learning the ropes of the political game (what you can and can’t do) in the process.
So on one hand we have people complaining that Labour is full of the old guard, but when Labour get some new blood people complain about that as well.
You believing 1prent concerning things he/she is speculating about is particularly naive. Perhaps 1prent might like to provide some information ie evidence and facts to base such a claim on?
I suggest you are the one being naive and might I add childish over this affair. You don’t read comments properly then base your argument on the misread – see Pascal’s bookie @ 2.1.1
You bet I believe 1prent, and he isn’t speculating as you well know. I also believe other people with whom I am acquainted whose reliability and integrity I know to be impeccable. Now grow up Jackal and show respect for those who, for various reasons, are in a position to know more about this matter than you obviously do yourself.
I know nothing of the sort hence my questioning 1prent for some evidence? I’m asking because at this stage it appears to be complete speculation that Clare Curran gained CV’s identity through his comments at Red Alert. Curran has now refuted that claim made by 1prent and others, which means 1prent needs to supply evidence for making such claims. Otherwise I’m going to call bullshit on such Whaleoil tactics.
You mean I shouldn’t question the baseless claims of people on The Standard because they’re in a position of power? Get fucking real Anne.
People get as much respect as they deserve from me, and as an outside observer it would appear that 1prent and others have lied in order to discredit a Labour MP. I happen to believe her when she says she found out who CV was through an email over mere speculation by people who cannot back up that speculation with evidence.
All the way through this saga you’ve claimed that people are bullshitting, then when it’s turned out they were right, you’ve shifted your position to needing evidence of something else while continuing to claim people are bullshitting.
The only bullshitting that’s going on here is you bullshitting yourself.
Pft! What a silly argument quartz.
Just to clarify, I think 1prent is bullshitting when he/she tries to speak with authority about knowing Clare Curran learnt CV’s identity through the Red Alert blog. I now have even more reason to not believe The Standards administrator. I’ve always asserted that and nothing has changed. I have also learnt that it’s bullshit that the intention of Clare Curran’s letter to the Labour council was to publicly name and shame CV.
You’re welcome to point out where I’ve actually been wrong quartz?
Nicely put, quartz.
I was pretty insistant at the time of IB’s post that the facts needed to come out. I felt that the LP was being tarred because of one MP’s bullying and that was unfair on the wider party. I still feel that way, but I now know more of the detail, though I have not seen Curran’s letter.
In summary, what I’m told is that Curran wrote to the NZ Council of the Labour Party moaning about CV. CV’s real name was not used in the letter. The NZ council threw the letter in the the big round bin, because it was just soooo stoopid.
In addition, from reading comments here, I pick up that Curran has previously, and concurrently, tried to intimidate CV in person. That intimidation has now worked, with CV being too scared to comment further. In my eyes, that makes Curran a bully and not fit to be a member of the party.
In addition, I had an interesting chat with a senior LP official that was quite illuminating. In short, it appears the party considers that the internet is only useful for sending emails. And therein lies the problem. The LP only wants the internet to be used if it can control the content. I find it distressing that such a pre-Obama mindset is in place. Its clearly one of the reasons why Labour can’t get traction in the polls; they have no modern communication strategy.
On a final note, can the Standard please drop Shearer Sezzzzz. While a member of his caucus is attacking Labour Party members here and in the msm and suppressing free speech, in solidarity with the victim/s, we should not be allowing his d’ohpinion pieces to see the light of day.
Have you looked at National’s woeful excuse for an interactive website? Clearly Labours modern communication strategy is light years ahead of theirs, so your claim that this is a reason for the lackluster poll results is obviously something else… Perhaps the baseless claims by various bloggers and commentators who are also Labour party members might be a more plausible reason?
You mean like the letter that Curran sent to NZ Council? Why do you think that was baseless. Or do you have a yet another new explanation. Looking at your posts over the last few days it seems to me that you’re simply saying that they are baseless purely as a act of dumb and blind faith rather than thinking.
For instance this one…
Yeah? Link to it. Or is this just matter of you and others making crap up after the fact. I’ve been pointed out to the people at Red Alert when they started that they needed clear written down policies specifically to avoid this kind of idiotic stupidity. In fact something like your own clearly written one would have been enough.
According to Clare Curran who will of course conveniently be unable to release the relevant e-mails. Of course that doesn’t explain the two cases last year that had to be done from Red Alert data.
But ignoring all that as you’re doing as being inconvenient to observe. CV told me on the Saturday morning of the conference that he’d been threatened with being outed by Curran the previous night if he didn’t vote the way that she wanted. He wasn’t representing her electorate. Now in your curious timeline, this appears to be well before the NZ Council where she was seeking ‘guidance’ on it. It was also simply outright bullying, well beyond the scope of any of the other rather intense lobbying that was going on that night (and which I suspect actually lost the caucus the vote).
What I find interesting is that you seem to be saying that members don’t have a right to debate anything about the Labour party. And yet your own Welcome states
Except apparently when it regards the actions of Labour MP’s. There is a word beginning with ‘H’ that seems to be dropping to my lips.. But perhaps you are merely the Pete George of the Left – pontificating because you can stretch your legs over a pungent slit toilet without ever looking or smelling at the crap below (as the walls crumble under your feet).
Could it just be that you never want to see any of these things? Or don’t you think that MP’s should be criticized for their behaviour? After all as well as representing the voters, they are also meant to represent us. And as a group they really are doing a really crappy job of it right now.
Ah, you obviously didn’t read any of the posts or at least not carefully. The only post that was calling for Cunliffe as leader was by QoT, who isn’t even a Labour member. Eddie, Irish and myself were essentially saying that the caucus was out of control and that the caucus discipline was about as useless as it was possible to get. r0b and Mike wrote posts supporting the leadership (while carefully not looking at the caucus I might add)…. As far as I can see the great Cunliffe ‘coup’ was just a nice fiction for the whips to do something to clamp down on caucus. Hopefully it will improve the caucus discipline. So far that doesn’t appear to have been the case – but these are early days.
All the caucus have to do to stop attracting my ire is to stop acting like ill-disciplined dickheads. For the last 4-5 years on this site we’ve had a virtually uninterrupted series of complete screw ups from the Labour caucus that we’ve been trying to ignore or gloss over. You can see each of these screw ups displayed in large spikes in the page views for this site that I’d have preferred not to have to have dealt with.
Each time it gets keeps getting harder to explain exactly why the black comedy in Wellington has been worth supporting. And I’ll swear that the frequency of the screw ups has simply increased.
What you are objecting to are some long-time party members and supporters giving the idiots of the party who appear to be concentrated in caucus some idea of our irritation. Personally I’ve come to the conclusion that they could do with some scathing analysis of their faults because they appear to spend far too much time seeking wisdom in that little village in the mid-country. Quite a few other people appear to have hit the limits of their toleration as well.
You’re just going to have to get used to it. Because what we’re expressing is what much of the actual activists inside the party are at least thinking. And all they have to do to stop me being permanently irritated is to stop screwing up…. damnit and do their bloody job without MP’s like Jones and Curran doing something mind-numbingly stupid every other month. Hell I’m sure that most of the MP’s are sick of this continuous level of wasted opportunities.
Thanks TRP. You’ve put it clearly and succinctly.
My own impression is that Shearer can’t control the Mallarfia. To some extent he is indebted to them, so he has to be careful how he treats them?
Jackal: you miss my point.
I believe if Labour knew how to communicate well, they’d be creaming National in the polls. National and Labour are both treading water, poll wise, but it’s up to the opposition to lift their game if they want a decent majority, not just limping to a one or two seat victory.
I’m not talking about either party’s websites, I’m talking about using the internet in all its aspects, including the issue du jour; blogging. The official I spoke to was convinced that the internet was basically irrelevant, which is an astonishing position to take, IMHO. It’s far from the experience of the Obama campaigns, for example, where the ‘net was used for organising, fundraising and policy promotion. And winning elctions, obviously.
Anne: Thank you. I agree Shearer is indebted to the likes of Mallard, but I’m also convinced that the vast majority of caucus now see Shearer as their only hope of keeping their jobs. Which is terribly sad, not just because it shows a lack of ambition, but because it shows a caucus beaten down by mediocrity and malice.
“Mediocrity and malice”.
‘kinoath!
Add fear and distrust – the curse of the mediocre, manifested in the way passion and ability are regarded as a threat rather than an asset.
cf: David Shearer’s Cunliffe-phobic handicap, or Clare Curran’s wretched Quisling attempt to attack The Standard.
+1
Lprent: he taonga.
Edit – a response to LP at 5:55.
1prent
No! Like your claims that Clare Curran was going to out CV and was bullying. What was there not to understand there 1prent? I’m pretty sure the letter is not proof of the claims of bullying or of how exactly Clare Curran learnt CV’s identity. It is more likely a letter to draw the problem to a head so that the Council can deal with the matter.
Not at all, I simply read lots and remember things 1prent. Last year sometime Red Alert came under a lot of attack and it was then that they said commentators had to be real identifiable people with working email addresses. So not strictly a policy, but a clear indication that commentators would be identified. I can waste a large amount of time trying to find the actual quotes if you like (and I agree they should have an easy to find commentating policy), or you could look it up yourself.
Yes! According to Clare Curren who’s a duly elected MP and somebody I have no reason to disbelieve. The relevant emails you refer to are one from CV that identifies who he is and a letter to the council. Both of these would be protected by various privacy laws and agreements.
Unfortunately for you, her statement today directly contradicts yours 1prent, I have chosen to disbelieve you… Sorry about that.
Could you link to this or explain what cases you’re talking about 1prent? As an avid reader of all New Zealand blogs I fail to reference any similar cases.
My curious timeline? I don’t recall ever providing a timeline 1prent apart from saying it has taken a very long time for CV, Irish Bill and yourself to inform us. Three weeks in fact since the Labour conference?
Could you explain the association between Clare Curran and John Tamihere that might cause her to threaten a member of the Labour party to ensure he was allowed back into Labour? You see there are many holes in your story that just don’t add up.
According to CV, somebody who has been continuously negative about Labour and has also promoted numerous untruths to undermine them. You can see why I find such claims hard to believe.
What makes you think that? My argument is that you and others should be able to back up your claims with evidence, especially when you’re making such serious claims that malign an MP. You haven’t verified even a small amount of what you’re claiming 1prent.
Let me put it another way. You have often said that attacking the writers at The Standard is the best way to gain your ire. This is particularly true when those attacks are made with claims that are baseless ie not factual. To me, it appears that you’re not adhering to that philosophy by attacking Clare Curran 1prent without having any verifiable evidence for us to see to back up your claims. Therefore the word beginning with H seems to apply more succinctly to you than myself 1prent. I think you should live by, well your own standards.
Healthy debate shouldn’t include speculation in order to malign an MP 1prent. Healthy debate shouldn’t include undermining a Labour MPs with claims that cannot be verified.
Pete George of the left? Fuck that for a joke!
If you want to trade insults… Perhaps you’re the real bully of the left 1prent. Unhappy that the candidate you supported didn’t achieve leadership. So vindictive in that disappointment as to attack the party you once supported. So deluded as to think the Greens might welcome somebody who has shown a complete lack of loyalty. Why don’t you confirm your hypocritical philosophy by banning somebody for speaking their mind 1prent, simply because they don’t agree with you.
I’m interested to know why you have copy and pasted some of my blog post about this over to here, instead of commenting at The Jackal?
How many times do I have to say the same thing before it works its way into your cranium? I welcome criticism of MPs when it’s warranted and based on evidence. I don’t when it’s baseless and cannot be verified.
And my observation was that the so-called coup was a fabrication invented by Cunliffe supporters/bloggers on The Standard, that was then picked up by the MSM.
? You don’t like the increased readership such controversy creates? Don’t make me laugh 1prent.
Well that’s all well and good if you can back up your claims with evidence 1prent. In my opinion the claims you’re making malign Clare Curran and Labour… That in turn undermines the left wing. I’m all for harsh criticism where its due when such critisism has some semblance of evidence attached to it. Presently you’re basing your beliefs and accusations on nothing more than heresay.
I should just accept claims without supporting evidence? I don’t think so 1prent. You’re wanting me to accept whatever you say without question… There’s that H word again. If you can actually supply some evidence of your claims then I’ll withdraw, but presently it appears to me you’re making shit up 1prent. In other words I’m calling you a liar!
As for claiming that other activists inside the Labour party are in agreement with you, that doesn’t particularly support your claims. As we all know, many people can be deluded, just look at who New Zealand elected as the government in 2011.
Te Reo Viper
I would have to agree with you then. Most political party’s have an issue with communicating with the public. Thankfully the Greens appear to have overcome that disability.
“The Pete George of the Left.”
Burn.
Not an original “burn” though eh!
I happen to believe her when she says she found out who CV was through an email…
Your ignorance is profound.
Jackal: I have misgivings about the accusations being flung around by some highly respected posters on this site. As a more distant supporter all I can see is critics of Labour who make mountains out of scraps of real or imagined faults and which sound so much like the NAct trolls. To me regardless of the justification they seem intent on undoing any Labour solidarity at a critical time in the cycle.
So by 2014 the cry will go up that they have won a huge victory, and that victory will to have split the Party into factions – and been wiped of the Electoral platform.
Solidarity wins Elections. Being Fractionated doesn’t.
I have no idea how a duplicate of my last comment just materialised above. need more coffee
Coffee, keyboard, darn involves getting out of bed..
Enough to reduce me to tears. There are some good people in that caucus.
If she had released any of my details she would be explaining to the Police and as many Lawyers I could get to roast her ass..
Time to resign Curren, as this is the sort of cyber bullying is just what we are supposed to be teaching our children NOT to do. And here we have a Member of Parliament doing it. Nope sorry immediate resignation, because a slapping down from Shearer ain’t going to happen, because he’s too weak, when faced with the ‘old guard’.
I’m not sure this is covered by the Privacy Act. Neither the Labour party website nor Red Alert have visible privacy policies. They’re private organisations. Do they have a legal obligation to not make use of private details like email addresses or IPs?
Yes. I don’t have time to lay my hands on the detail, but in NZ law you have to give explicit permission for whatever private information that you give to be used for other than the purpose for which it was given. The act for that went through in either the late 90’s or early 00’s. (my brain is fried with coding)
There is probably a massive grey area around IP’s as they are almost an artefact of the process rather than something you give voluntarily. There is no such grey area around e-mails.
However I also seem to recall that there is a major set of exemptions around political parties…
” but in NZ law you have to give explicit permission for whatever private information that you give to be used for other than the purpose for which it was given.”
Not sure that’s quite it. The person/organisation who holds the information can release it if they genuinely believe that the person who the information is about would be ok with that (that’s me badly paraphrasing, I think it’s more that they are unaware of any reason why the person wouldn’t want the information released). This is why medical records can be shared between practitioners without specific, explicit permission. It happens all the time. It’s also why many organisations are now routinely asking patients/clients to sign generic (usually badly worded and without information) consent forms to share information with whoever they want in order to provide service.
What I am unclear about is whether a Labour Party member posting at Red Alert would be considered to have given implicit permission by being part of the Labour Party (given that Red Alert is a Labour blog). I’m thinking no in terms of the intention of the privacy act, but unclear about how that would play out in reality.
Re the emails, does that mean releasing email addresses to spammers is illegal, unless someone has given permission?
Kiaora Colonial Weka
Not sure that’s quite it. The person/organisation who holds the information can release it if they genuinely believe that the person who the information is about would be ok with that (that’s me badly paraphrasing, I think it’s more that they are unaware of any reason why the person wouldn’t want the information released). This is why medical records can be shared between practitioners without specific, explicit permission. It happens all the time. It’s also why many organisations are now routinely asking patients/clients to sign generic (usually badly worded and without information) consent forms to share information with whoever they want in order to provide service.
No. Medical records and information are also covered by the Health Code. Patients / clients must give consent for their health information to be released or shared. While generally there may be a blanket consent process in place, usually at the time a person registers into a health service, that blanket does not extend towards granting everyone within the health service access to a person’s health information. The obligation on the health service is to protect the privacy of health information from anyone not directly involved in the care of the person concerned.
Should there be a need to discuss someone’s health information as part of a wider forum identity (name) is removed.
Kiaora Adele,
Nevertheless, health practitioners routinely share information without explicit permission. This is because when you share information with your GP, it is assumed that you are ok with your GP sharing that information with whoever they deem needs it. Happens all the time. My understanding is that the Privacy Act doesn’t say don’t share information without express permission, it says you can share information if you have no good reason to believe the person wouldn’t want it shared. Hence a GP can send medical records to a hospital but not a newpaper, because it is assumed that the patient would be ok with the first but not the second.
(and this is why, as mentioned, some health organisations now ask patients to sign generic waivers when they first become clients. They usually contain the phrase something like “we may not be able to provide this service without this permission” which is coercive and complete crap. They don’t usually point out that it’s entirely optional).
Likewise, if someone shares information with the Labour Party (name, address etc), it’s probably assumed that the Labour Party can share that information within its own systems, but not hand that information over the the Greens, or a mail order company. The reason the former is ok, is because it’s assumed that the person supplying information about themselves will be ok with this.
Not sure how many people realise this, but when you share information with your GP you are in fact sharing it with the practice as a whole not the individual doctor. Likewise, it might be that sharing information with Red Alert is seen to be sharing information with Labour as a whole. Still a shitty and unethical practice, but not sure it’s illegal.
And just to clarify
When I signed up with a new clinic, I didn’t sign anything that gave consent for the clinic to share information outside of the clinic. But the clinic considers it has the right to do so (and afaik the law supports this). This doesn’t mean that any old person in the health system can ask for information about me and be given it, but if for instance a specialist wants some information about me from my GP file, they will go straight to the GP practice, they won’t come to me. Actually they will come to me in my case, because I make sure that every person I give info to knows that they have to consult with me before sharing information. But if I didn’t do that, the law says that if the practitioner has no good reason to think I wouldn’t want the relevant information shared, then they can share it.
http://privacy.org.nz/assets/Files/Codes-of-Practice-materials/HIPC-1994-incl.-amendments-revised-commentary.pdf
Kiaora Colonial Weka,
That is my point. A health system cannot share a person’s health information to anyone unrelated to that person’s care or treatment. When I visit a GP she / he tells me what she / he intends to do in terms of my care including seeking the advice of a specialist. When I visit the specialist she / he explains to me the steps necessary for my treatment including what other specialities may be consulted in respect to my treatment.
At all points along the care pathway I have a absolute right to be fully informed on any matter pertaining to my care and an absolute expectation that whomever gets to view my health information is a necessary part of that care pathway. The passages that you quote simply confirms:
That a health agency must disclose a person’s health information to the person concerned, or to their representative (next of kin or spouse) if they should happen to be dead or dying, or by authorisation (usually in written form).
2(a) reaffirms that the information cannot be released to all and sundry and should only be released to those agencies or others directly involved in that person’s treatment or care.
Privacy of other types of personal information follows a similar logic.
Um – just to throw another spanner in the works, the Health Act also allows personal information to be gathered from any source by the minister’s various review committees, e.g. mortality review committees. This is distinct from coronial and police investigations. And the powers under the Health Act are significantly more extensive than criminal investigations.
Kiaora Adele,
I think we are talking at cross purposes here. My point was that information can be shared without express permission. We see that in the health system, and I suspect that information sharing between Red Alert and the rest of Labour would be considered legal in the same way as it is in the health system. I don’t know for sure, but I’m not yet convinced that such sharing would be illegal.
Re the Health System, I think you are talking about best practice. Many times however information is shared, as a matter of course or in unusual ways, without the patient being aware, and certainly not with express permission. For many patients this is not a problem. For others it is.
From the Redalert FAQ’s (How to comment):
“Enter your name (can be an alias if you prefer).
Enter your email adddress (won’t be shown publically).”
Of, course Curran could use the Dunnokeyo style excuse that as ‘publicly’ is misspelled, it doesn’t mean what we think it does.
Ta, hadn’t seen that. Still, there is a difference between ‘wont’ be shown publicly’ and ‘won’t be shared within our organisation’.
I’m still trying to figure out what it is that CV has said that is so bad (compared to what everyone else has been saying).
well, I’m somewhat surprised that CV is a member, given his comments (especially about Shearer). If I were that pissed off I’d have gone somewhere else long ago.
Be that as it may, the next time someone rips shit out of someone for not having the “guts” to use our real names, this is another clear example as to why those with less power need to be able to speak publicly without fear of repercussions from those with more power.
Curran’s been solid but unspectacular as an electorate MP, from what I’ve seen. But as a politician, she seems to be well accommodated in the vindictive area, but undersupplied with tact, strategic foresight and discretion.
Not going somewhere else may involve holding one’s party to account. If there is no hope of that, what hope is there that one will hold one’s party in government to account?
true, but when the parting of ways reaches a certain level, surely one should choose another party that is closer to one’s beliefs rather than flogging a dead horse.
That’s funny! That’s how I would currently describe CV, 1prent, Irish Bill and others when they chose to publish lots of speculation and then weren’t able to back it up with any evidence. I’m still waiting for that evidence to show Clare Curran was going to publicly name CV after finding out his identity through comments at Red Alert?
Holding a political party to account is all well and good Jim Viperald, but blaming Shearer for what previous Labour governments have done (which was always the main crux of CV’s argument) isn’t particularly beneficial to the party he signed up for. Being that there are alternatives, it appears CV is/was a member only in order to gain information to complain about, and much of his complaining was baseless!
“John Key is a better politician than David Shearer”, C’mon CV… Cat got your tongue?
Jackal, your allegations of speculation are themselves speculations. Perhaps you just aren’t in the loop.
One Tāne Viper
My accusations aren’t speculations because Clare Curran has confirmed much of my argument by refuting the speculation that has been made here on The Standard.
Um! Just in case you haven’t noticed, I’m an anonymous blogger One Tāne Viper. Relevance ie recognition is clearly not what I want to achieve. Perhaps you might like to actually debate the issues instead of resorting to stupid personal insults?
IrishBill
Isn’t it obvious? I’m concerned with so-called Labour activists undermining their own party with what appears to be baseless speculation to the detriment of the entire left wing. It’s not desperation and you haven’t presented any evidence for it to be “right in front” of me IrishBill.
By all means perform harakiri on yourselves sometime in the future, in other words when I’ve had enough time to ensure the Greens have enough support to be the main opposition party in New Zealand.
You sound desperate Jackel. For someone who’s not even a member you seem to have a lot invested in denying what’s right in front of you. What’s up with that?
The desperate scramble for relevance. Sad but true?
Apparently the PM is royly plezed with the downstream benefits of the success of the Hobbit and Warner studios here. Any truth in the rumour that the producers of the Muppets are being invited here. They certainly have a ready cast awaiting them. Any suggestions as to who might play the leading roles
Lol. Very good. Except the Muppets are 😎
Apparently it’s no contest for Miss Piggy.
If the casting requirement is gender neutralised, there should be strong competition.
Don’t get up yet. I’m amazed that you can blog before you rise. In cigarette smokers, having a fag in bed first thing is considered a bad sign 🙂
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/mistaken-assumptions-labours-anti.html
Chris Trotter;s latest blog on the issue.
edit – damn, this was meant to be a reply to Lprent at 2.3.1
It’s not that bad I admit the lappie is a bit hard to use in bed, but way easier than using my Smartphone. I gotta Blog in bed as I gave up the Ciggies 🙂
Trotter’s piece seems to confirm what was seen when Labour was last in power. And is confirmed by this vipergate shit. And was seen in Trotter’s example of Lange and Prebble etc.
That is ……. the Labour party people resist having to abide by the decisions of the people. They resist democratic principles. This is what the accusation was during Clark’s term – that they were too busybody, telling people what to do and wear and eat and shit. Bossy school teachers (apologies to our fine teachers…) treating everybody else like a class of school children.
And still it goes on.
How on earth can Labour claim to be a party of the people when it resists listening to and being directed by the people?
Sounds like a sham to me.
“having a fag in bed first thing is considered a bad thing”
My God, I hope you aren’t talking about your education at an English Public school?
I have seen a chain of emails from/to an active LP member who was barred from RedAlert last year because of comments she made on the Standard during the Leadership battle.
The chain includes emails to/from Trevor Mallard, Moira Coatsworth and Grant Robertson.
The practice of looking in RedAlerts for real names, electorates and email addresses of people who are critical of certain party MPs is openly admitted.
Shearer was a c.c. in some. Prior to the barring, the information was used in an approach to the member’s nearest MP.
Robertson saw no problems with the practice and effectively endorsed it. Mallard administered the practice. Moira was aware of the practice. Clare Curran is just one of the cast in this farce.
Has Winston Peter’s crossed the line by allegedly leaking sources phone numbers?
Reading an article on Stuff today regarding allegations Winston Peters leaked not just the TAB phone records to the media, but also contact details of individuals is appalling.
My opinion below what do you think?
I find any leaking of private phone numbers to be totally unacceptable. Brendan is quite right, some taxpayers have phone conversations with members of Parliament in the MP’s capacity as spokesperson’s on various portfolio’s. In Brendan case one of his roles was as NZ First’s industrial relations spokesperson.
At times information could be regarded as sensitive and an expectation is that the call is in ‘confidence.’
Winston Peters should know some sources may ‘expect’ a high degree of confidentiality. Certainly ‘not’ to have their contact phone numbers handed over to the media, if this is true?
Having had phone conversations with Brendan in his capacity as a NZFirst spokesperson on industrial relations, I am mortified to hear these allegations & will give consideration to ‘laying a complaint’ if my rights have been breached?
p.s Bret your opinion is yesterday’s news so spare us your opinion son!
Unless you are the TAB, I doubt your rights have been breached
Skinny
Winston Peters is above the law –
in HIS party he is the almighty, and will continue to do whatever suits him under Parliamentary Privilege.
Ask him when is he going to pay back the $148,000 he stole from the taxpayers.
Oh dear ABC is at it again …
This continuous undermining of David Cunliffe is so wearying, destructive and stupid. Shearer should be brave and attempt to unite the caucus rather than allowing this continuous undermining to occur. If he does not the party is going to go through a rough time.
Mmm it says Parker was sitting in the Chairperon seat when Cunliffe arrived.
That is surprising from Parker. I’ve only experienced courtesy and impeccable manners from him.
Perhaps he too is being bullied? I suspect he was told that Shearer or Hipkins had sanctioned it
There is some serious petty bad-attitude from sone staffers in the Labour offices in Parliament.
People can say what they like about Heather Simpson nut she would never have allowed the buggers muddle that is the current Labour caucus and staffers to have occurred during her time.
The nicest interpretation for Parker is that some underling said “Oh hey David P, you’re taking over from David C at that meeting” and he assumed this meant it had all been sorted out with David C.
There are less nice interpretations.
Hmm. So you’re saying that it’s better that he be stupid and naive rather than a player?
I’d say he’s
fuckedcompromised either way.I doubt DC would be a Bill Rowling type of Leftie Leader, the last true socialist Labour Leader in my opinion.
I really believe the Party needs a clean out of pretenders start with Chris Hipkins & keep on rolling rolling!
‘ Shearer should be brave and attempt to unite the caucus rather than allowing this continuous undermining to occur.’
LOL mickey, what like his immediate stamping on all those caucus leaks or his strong leadership in reigning the loose Curran and co in so he looks in control and electable.
Works as per specification, just what the hollowmen ordered.
I see that Telecom has had a major system failure yet again.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10853234
And on telecoms website..
We apologise for the inconvenience caused by this outage, which occurred when a problem arose during a scheduled software upgrade on one of our main internet servers.
http://www.telecom.co.nz/whatsnew/broadbandservicestatus/?f=all
Don’t they error check and test Software upgrades before they implement them??
I mean it’s not the home PC with windoze 7 and autoupdating is it.
Anyone care to respond?
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/238634/curran-hits-out-online-critics
Wow, Curran playing the victim? Never saw THAT coming.
/sarcasm
“…a member was expressing views anonymously, in a way in which was intended to damage other party members and the party overall.”
“Intended”? This snivelling wretch thinks she’s entitled to her own facts?
Let’s be clear about this: Curran is personally responsible for any “damage” that ensues from her authoritarian brain fart. She is the disease in the Labour Party.
A negotiation heard between Lucifer and St Peter recently.
(St P) Watch that Labour Caucus go, they really desire power…now that’s a good thing is’nt it?
(L) Lust in my book
(St P) And look how they turned off that challenge from the members, a quick vote and all, clever?
(L) Yes, eating too eagerly of their power, Gluttony no less, had their cake and ate it too. Nice bit of trickery and manipulation of their authority, very devilish losing the floor vote to the members then kicking them in the teeth with a quick Caucus vote…grabbed far more power than they needed…now that’s Greed in my book.
(St P) Yes, but in doing that they failed to act on democratic principle, or even within the spirit of what the Party at large asked of them.
(L) Yes that is Sloth, a failure to do what you should.
(St P) And sort of vindictive?
(L) Yes, full of Wrath. Nice bit of nastiness.
(St P) And now they have one of them outing the members on a blog and attempting to “discipline” them.
(L) Quite so, now they have tasted blood they show an insatiable desire for more, they covet power , they want what the membership took back. That’s pure Envy.
(St P) And that particular MP, she is pushing her way to the top over the bodies of bloggers etc, she thinks she knows best, that she is more important?.
(L) Yes, the deadliest of all sins, Pride. I win their souls with a full set of the Seven Deadly Sins.
(St P) Looks like as you say “The Devil take the hindmost”……no argument from me on this lot.
Clare Curran: latest (immensely unsurprising) addition to the list of People Who Don’t Fucking Understand The Difference Between Anonymous and Pseudonymous.
The clue is that if it were truly anonymous, Clare, you wouldn’t have a pseudonym to bully people over.
Aah, but perhaps she has a new job lined up, LOL!
http://www.imperatorfish.com/2012/12/new-zealand-cricket-recruits-fresh.html
Brilliant!
I see the government is looking at legal action against those responsible for the CTV building collapse in the Christchurch earthquake (among others).
If only the government itself would take responsibility in the exact same way for its exact same failings. i.e. changes and failings around mine safety regulations which led directly to the deaths of 29 men at Pike River.
The Ministers of the Crown who oversaw those mine safety regulations being changed, ignored, reviewed etc are directly culpable for the deaths of those men. What say you Gerry Brownlee, kate Wilkinson, and those others back in the 90s? You caused death by your actions and non-actions. Gonna stand up and be responsible?
yeah right
Kind of funny how you include the recent National ministers then the 90s government but no mention of the Labour government in the middle. Surely if the ministers of the 90s are directly culpable you should also be calling for the early 00s ministers to be held accountable as well.
Yes I do. inadvertantly left out.
It appears that Tau Henare has thrown in the towel in His bid to become Speaker of the Parliament, within His abdication statement Tau is muttering darkly about the Maori Party promising to support Him in His bid for the Speakers job and then not doing so,
Gosh politics,never a dull moment and i would like to take a moment here to fall about the place in gales of mad laughter at the poetic nature of such a snubbing, previous NZFirst voters will also, along with Winston be having one hell of a giggle about Tau’s latest failure to rise, (perhaps a extra teaspoon of baking powder might help),
Tau doesn’t seem to have the ability to see that His particular place on the National Party list is there solely by dint of His previous desertion of the voters who elected Him to the Parliament in the first place as a NZFirst MP where He set about on a mission of destruction by quitting that Party along with 4 of its MPs,
Face it Tau, you have been well rewarded by National for the previous hatchet job on NZFirst, you don’t seriously believe that they are now going to give you any position of actual power do you….
+1
Tau would be a useless speaker IMO, even a 90 day trial would be torture.
Key (or the puppet master Joyce) would have told the Maori Party to renege on any promise they had made.
I’m not saying the current Labour leadership are the types to kick a man when he’s down, but
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8061291/Trust-dumping-slip-up-further-insult-to-Cunliffe
To SHG (Not Colonial Viper). If you read the Dom Post story carefully, you’ll see Parker was already in Cunliffe’s seat when C turned up at the meeting. That itells me this was a “set up”. And what is the dithering Leader doing when his staff DECIDE who can sit on a Trust without his knowledge – why wasn’t he involved in that decision ? Definitely a set up. And yes, I think the nasty sods can kick a man when he’s down. I watched them do it, over and over again, in caucus
– to David Lange. This is almost the last straw for me : I’ve stopped my VFL, and I’m not going to be delivering or organising delivery of any pamphlets after the New Year ! or anything else for that matter. Its time NZ Council got serious with these rogue MPs, and told the ditherer to reinstate Cunliffe. Until they do so, that VFL remains stopped.
And the High Court have ruled against the Maori Council in the water case. Off to the Court of Appeal we go …
One interesting clanger by the Prime Minister has emerged in the judgment. He filed an affidavit in the case that said the following:
“Ministers were clear throughout the process that particular Māori iwi/hapū have rights and interests in specific water and geothermal resources in rohe. If the applicants are seeking to suggest otherwise that is simply wrong”.
I have tried to but no matter how hard I try I cannot reconcile this statement by Key with his comment that “no one owns water”.
So is this evidence of him telling a porkie?
That would be “perjury”, no?
The corrupt low-life often referred to as “The Right Honourable John Key, Prime Minister” seems to believe that facts are a matter of opinion.
I see Crusher Collins does not agree with the high court Judge they employed from Canada to look into compensation for David Bain. Now doesn’t that sound familiar and usual from these right wing arseoles. I remember Justice Mahon who gave a verdict which has been proved to be correct on the DC10 crash on Mt Erebus when he said there was a litany of lies. Muldoom nearly feel out of his tree as this was not the answer that Mahon was employed to give. This is why Crusher Collins is seeking “further” advice because the right wing shit have not got the answer they wanted. She will “seek” advice until they find someone who will give them the answer they want. And that is don’t pay Bain a penny
Fucking arseoles I don’t know if Bain is guilty or not, but like Ellis they have been found “NOT GUILTY” and have spent a considerable amount of their time incarcerated They deserve something.
In the corrupt low-life’s defence she has asserted that “The review would not have an impact on Bain’s claim, other than to delay it…”
Judge Judy: Collins slams Binnie’s Bain report
Going well in NZ at present innit /sarc!
omg so you are all vipers now!!!!
I just can’t believe nobody’s made a snakes on the muthafucking plane joke yet.
Bahaha they have now
On a frakkin’ battlestar, you mean.
Given that website Red Alert has allowed its private information to be used for other purposes what websites are considered safe to visit?
Whale oil? Kiwiblog? Scoop? Pundit? Handcream? This site?
I mean, pretty much the game is over is it not? There can be no certainty that identification of people is securely held. By any site.
Faith in Lynn. And non-permanent IPs, and non-obvious email addresses (e.g. not j.smith@… but mcflock@… or similar). Not perfect, but at least makes it slightly difficult.
The thing is that someone could still narrow me down to a few folk from my comments, but they will still be guessing. So my comments won’t be bringing my employer into disrepute, or whatever some tory (or wannabe machiavelli in Labour caucus) would try to fuck me with for no good reason.
Working on it. Because of the proposed “cyber bullying” bill and it’s innovative approach to removing the ‘anonomity’ on psuedonyms I will be removing all identifying information on this aite into non reversible hashes. A complaint seems to be all that will actually be required as far as I can tell for whatever structure happens to force me to reveal ino otherwise. This means that all identifying information will be transitory in nature and would require direct control of the server or man in the middle access – both of which are far more difficult than a enforceable order by a quango.
It will be a bit more awkward to moderate, but the would have happened anyway as more people went ipv6 on the site.
Hi all,
Can anyone tell me when the Leadership vote in February will actually take place… most places/people just say, “in February”…
Cheers.