Open mike 13/08/2014

118 comments on “Open mike 13/08/2014 ”

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1. Andrew 1

   13 August 2014 at 7:17 am

   A few people may be interested in this Vote Switching analysis.

   http://www.colmarbrunton.co.nz/index.php/polls-and-surveys/political-polls/vote-switching-analysis-2014

   Interesting where the undecideds are coming from.
2. crocodill 2

   13 August 2014 at 7:55 am

   You say on your blog that vote switch polls may actually be designed to increase undecided voters? I guess everyone has an angle. Yours is pretty obscure though, it’s not even like an ad for ice cream that blinks so fast people go into epileptic shock. Most guys who support the incumbent party just shout something like, “You guys are losing there is no hope!” then leave. Your angle is far more subtle. I like it, but it appeals to a small fragment of the available voters who are unlikely to be reading this blog. Have you taken a poll on how effective it is to suggest people become undecided, from non-poll obsessed people, taking into account the likely no response rate to questions likely to result in no response? I am totally standing by my phone waiting for your call. Speak to you around 6pm then?
   • Andrew 2.1

     13 August 2014 at 12:37 pm

     Maybe you see my angle as ‘pretty obscure’ because I’m a Labour/Green supporter.

     Aside from that, I have no idea what you’re talking about.
3. vto 3

   13 August 2014 at 7:58 am

   The defence for the South Canterbury Finance case has prised the lid a little on the reasons for Bill English allowing SCG into the Retail Deposit Guarantee Scheme… http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/10376937/Defence-slates-inept-SFO-inquiry-into-SCF

   SCF should never have been let in, or kept in, and Bill English knows this. This is the bigger fraud – the biggest in NZ;s history, and carried out by Bill English and his cohort John Key. The Crown, in its case against the defendants, has gone to great lengths and efforts to thwart any investigation into the reasons for SCF being let in. They have actively avoided and diverted enquiries away from this very issue. Evidence for this is provided ….

   “What we now know is that these people were never questioned by the SFO about their entrance into the Crown Deed of Guarantee”

   and

   “”The most alarming example of the deficiency of the SFO’s investigation concerns the charge concerning the Crown Deed of Guarantee”

   and

   “Equally disturbing is that when interviewed, none of the defendants was asked about the entry into the Crown Deed of Guarantee – they were simply charged with the biggest fraud in New Zealand’s history without ever being given the chance to explain what had in fact happened back in 2008 and the role they had played”

   and

   “Neither Treasury nor the Reserve Bank were asked to provide any of their analysis into SCF. It was left to defence to find three key documents, recording the reason why SCF was admitted into the scheme”

   and

   “Key witnesses were not interviewed, including Treasury secretary John Whitehead, who was the gateholder to the scheme.”

   and finally

   “The Crown’s case had shifted from causing the $1.58b payout by getting into the scheme using inaccurate information to getting into the scheme earlier than it otherwise would. “It is now said that the inaccurate information provided by SCF merely avoided a delay of an unspecified length.” ”

   ..

   I tells ya – this is the shit that stinks. SCF should never had been let in but Bill English wanted to ensure his type of people were looked after.

   It was fraud. These defence statements provide a great big whiff of the stench and fraud of this government.

   When will it ever be investigated?
   • Molly 3.1

     13 August 2014 at 8:20 am

     Just hanging out the clothes after checking The Standard, and while doing so thought to myself – why didn’t we ever get any investigative articles into the bailout of SCF – considering they did not meet the criteria?

     … came in and found your comment – and hope the MSM reading this pick up and run with it.

     I agree with your “SCF should never had been let in but Bill English wanted to ensure his type of people were looked after.” comment. It is what I’ve always felt what the reasoning behind this bailout.
   • Weepus beard 3.2

     13 August 2014 at 9:10 am

     I remember Bill English looking petrified when delivering the news to camera that day. And you’re right, just looking after his kind of people.
     • phillip ure 3.2.1

       13 August 2014 at 10:46 am

       what was particularly puke-inducing was every financial-adviser in town..despite there being wide knowledge of how shaky/shonky s.c.f.was..

       ..them all advising their clients to pile into sth canterbury..

       ..’cos it didn’t matter about the rumours/impending-failure..

       ..’cos their investment was govt-guaranteed..

       ..it was money in the bank..

       ..so those snickering elites did just that..they took the taxpayers of nz outside for a good fucking..

       ..the other takeaway from that clusterfuck..

       ..is one to throw in the face of racist-ratbags..

       ..namely..that more money was paid out to those greedy/stealing investors..

       ..than had been paid out in all treaty settlements to date..

       ..that’s a fact that’s best not to forget..

       ..it does so put things into some perspective..i find..
       • Bearded Git 3.2.1.1

         13 August 2014 at 2:48 pm

         +1 phillip
4. Tiger Mountain 4

   13 August 2014 at 8:06 am

   …Bad

   …when he was good he was bad12

   …when he was bad he was very bad indeed

   …whatev you *#!%&! get those flyers out and lets win this election

   …that would be very good
   • idlegus 4.1

     13 August 2014 at 12:45 pm

     saw internet mana party last night in dunedin, great speakers, good crowd of people, smiles & laughter. am very encouraged.
     • Tiger Mountain 4.1.1

       13 August 2014 at 1:24 pm

       Going straight to the people is the way to proceed in this election, circumvent the machine wherever possible. Sometimes a bit of leadership is all it takes–it is OK to take action–FJK

       Labour are getting out and about too with the big red bus, partner is doing a day on it as a volunteer. It will be ending up at Henderson nightmarkets on Friday around 7pm for any Westies in the area to come and support.
5. marty mars 5

   13 August 2014 at 8:14 am

   Jeepers – a few days ago my laptop began whineing – this was after it kept cutting out when trying to watch videos – I tried the old ignore and it will fix itself trick – nah – so I had to take some time out – I didn’t want to but it has been good although a bit shocked to see that bad is banned for life now – oh well.

   I am loving this election 🙂
   • karol 5.1

     13 August 2014 at 8:21 am

     Good that you are back. The machines try to rule us.
   • phillip ure 5.2

     13 August 2014 at 8:29 am

     “.. a bit shocked to see that bad is banned for life now…”

     ..+ 1..
     • Stephanie Rodgers 5.2.1

       13 August 2014 at 10:53 am

       As has already been mentioned, anyone lamenting bad’s banning should consider that there are a (growing) number of unpublished comments by him which are openly abusive. Phrases like “two bit gutter trash” are among the mildest of the crap bad has thrown at Standard moderators over the past two days.
       • phillip ure 5.2.1.1

         13 August 2014 at 11:10 am

         can we know what the original ban from you..which set him off..was for..?
         • Stephanie Rodgers 5.2.1.1.1

           13 August 2014 at 11:19 am

           I resent your statement that my actions “set him off”. bad was given multiple moderator warnings and deliberately chose to post personal abuse at me and was banned for doing so.

           weka has linked to the relevant comments at 5.4 below. Read it yourself.
           • phillip ure 5.2.1.1.1.1

             13 August 2014 at 11:32 am

             no..i went to that link..that doesn’t have what he said..there is only him saying he shouldn’t respond to you because he cd get banned..

             ..his response to your retraction-demand (in link)..that he got banned for..that has been redacted..

             ..are we able to know what that was..?

             ..as an object-lesson..?..if nothing else..

             .and maybe a modicum of justice being seen to be done..?

             [Stephanie: No, phillip. I’m not going to repeat the abusive, misogynist crap bad posted at me just to “prove” to you that “justice was done”. You can either accept that bad crossed a line, despite being warned multiple times and despite playing the martyr when he was warned about his behaviour, or you can not, but continuing to imply that I am to blame for bad’s wilful abusiveness is a seriously stupid move on your part.]
             • weka …

               13 August 2014 at 1:26 pm

               Bad calling Lynn, in his moderator role, an impotent little prick is still visible. Does that not tell you enough?

               That link also shows bad12 referring to a couple of days ago when he was warned and he commented that he was aware of the implications of the warning. You can find that pretty easily along with the rest of the context that day.

               It never ceases to amaze me that people on the internet don’t get moderation 101: my blog, my rules. Instead many people seem to think that blogs/forums etc should operate according to their own mores instead of the mores of the people that run the site. This despite the fact that the internet has always operated by moderation 101. Pretty much like everywhere else, when in Rome do as the Romans do.

               I think that newbies can get caught out on ts sometimes by the moderation styles, but there is no way in hell that bad didn’t know what he was doing.
       • Rosie 5.2.1.2

         13 August 2014 at 11:13 am

         Hi Stephanie. I’m sorry that you have been abused, it’s uncalled for, and never ever excusable. I hope you’re feeling ok, I wouldn’t be if I had copped such abuse.

         Knowing bad, I can only imagine the unpublish-able stuff would have been………..very bad.

         I would like to see him back in the future, if he can temper that antagonism. He does have a keen eye for political manipulations and I have taken on board some of his wiser observations. Some “theory” I disagreed with wholeheartedly (like the Pike River non existent “insurance job” which I thought was an insulting suggestion that disrespected the dead and their loved ones), some I ignored but I did appreciate his quirky grumpy ways most of the time.

         Kia Kaha
       • Clemgeopin 5.2.1.3

         13 August 2014 at 11:29 am

         I am quite disappointed that bad12 has been banned for whatever reason. He is a brilliant writer, funny and with good analytical skills. Too bad that in his enthusiasm for politics and his dear causes, at times his abuse/swear words was too crass and over the top.

         May be he is depressed, unwell, upset about something or something else is going on in his life.

         We all make mistakes. Egos can cause chaos and destroy people.

         Perhaps there could be an amicable privately conducted correspondence to settle the issue, forget and forgive, have this ban revoked and make a fresh start.

         That is how I feel anyway.

         [Stephanie: bad was not banned “for whatever reason”. He was openly and aggressively abusive to multiple moderators of this site. He threatened to continue to troll this site under new pseudonyms if banned. He posted at least a dozen further abusive comments after being banned and clearly has no desire for an “amicable” “fresh start”.

         This conversation has been entirely played out and I must ask that no further comments be posted which question the decision of moderators to ban a clearly abusive troll.]
         • Bearded Git 5.2.1.3.1

           13 August 2014 at 2:47 pm

           +1 Clem. I’ve never been overly offended to my knowledge by bad12’s stuff.

           Time-soakers like Pete George, fisiani and srylands, with their multitude of posts irritate me more. Maybe a limit on the number of posts/day would be an idea, though probably impractical.

           [Stephanie: It would really pay to read what the moderators have said on this matter. It is irrelevant if you, personally, were never “overly offended” by his comments because you, personally, weren’t being subjected to personal abuse.

           bad12 was not banned because he was “irritating”. He was banned for being abusive, as detailed in many places on this thread.]
           • greywarbler 5.2.1.3.1.1

             15 August 2014 at 10:29 am

             @Bearded Git 2.47
             But bad did go in for a multitude of posts quite often. Just like the others you mention, and longer than them too. I don’t see TS as regarding itself as a place for someone to have bad tempered spats with other commenters. It’s lively but bad pushed the limits. I gave up when he was rude when I suggested something that I thought he would have been interested in.

             It’s a pity that he can’t control his aggressive language but I don’t think he will ever do that and ends up as disruptive as any RW troll, yet with a left slant.
       • marty mars 5.2.1.4

         13 August 2014 at 11:34 am

         I’m not lamenting just noting that in a few days a lot can change. He knew the rules and abused a moderator and unpleasantly misrepresented their views so he got what was coming to him.
         • Stephanie Rodgers 5.2.1.4.1

           13 August 2014 at 11:42 am

           As you can see from phillip’s comments above, there are people who refuse to accept that bad did anything that bad …
           • marty mars 5.2.1.4.1.1

             13 August 2014 at 12:04 pm

             I’m sorry you received that abuse. Kia kaha.
           • phillip ure 5.2.1.4.1.2

             13 August 2014 at 2:32 pm

             could you plse stop putting words into my mouth..

             ..i said/inferred no such thing..

             ..i fully accept that he nutted off..and said all that shit..

             ..what puzzles me..and no doubt others..is that he is/was so practised at walking that fine line..

             ..so the puzzlement is about what was the trigger..

             (it didn’t happn in a vaccuum..)

             ..not everything that came afterwards..

             ..that is all i was asking..

             ..but as asking draws threats of being banned..

             .. the power-imbalance in this conversation is such i must withdraw..

             ..so forget i even asked…eh..?
             • Stephanie Rodgers …

               13 August 2014 at 9:55 pm

               Stop playing such a bloody martyr, phillip. All the links are up there for you to make whatever guesses you like. Maybe bad can’t handle being told “no” by a woman. Certainly he was holding a grudge over our previous conversations about abortion rights.

               Demanding proof of the “justification” for bad’s banning, and insisting that we talk about the “trigger” for his behaviour is nothing more than making excuses for abuse.
     • Tracey 5.2.2

       13 August 2014 at 10:57 am

       He did and wrote stuff for which many that support the Right have suffered bans.
       • Draco T Bastard 5.2.2.1

         13 August 2014 at 12:09 pm

         Not just the Right-wing but also those on the Left. Lprent uses Equal Opportunity Excessive Moderation 😈
         • Tracey 5.2.2.1.1

           13 August 2014 at 4:42 pm

           I was t7rying to convey that
   • Pasupial 5.3

     13 August 2014 at 9:06 am

     MM

     The thing that surprised me was that bad12 appears to banned from even reading the site (until he changes his ISP anyway). However it did seem to be richly deserved. Anyway, I imagine that he will be included in the post-election amnesty, so; “banned for life”, may not be as long as it sounds.

     [lprent: He was banned for attacking authors in the crudest terms.

     He got banned from reading the site to make the point. That was because he started channelling Gollum in the auto-spam like this. That puts him in the dad4justice league of people who get removed from the site.

     You cannot tho patrol the site 24/7 and when the bad’s choose to give you another little lesson in just how impotent you really are, the bad’s will,

     But I see that he leaked through a comment this morning. I’ll have a look at the logs and firewall shortly to see how that happened. ]
     • McFlock 5.3.1

       13 August 2014 at 3:07 pm

       Lynn,

       I noticed yesterday that when I tried to read TS from home I was redirected to a “lad’s mag” site (only for a couple of minutes).

       Would that be a little bit of “banned from reading” collateral damage? 🙂
       I figured it was probably a tory hacker until I read the self-immolation thread.
   • weka 5.4

     13 August 2014 at 9:26 am

     Bad12 has been building up to it. What surprises me isn’t the ban, but that he knowingly did the very specific things to get himself not just a short ban but a permanent one. I think the place would be better for him having some time off, he was getting less legible and more antagonistic recently, but am sad that he has gone permanently. He often brought in on to it perspectives.

     Here’s the context if anyone wants to see it.

     http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-12082014/#comment-864456
     • McFlock 5.4.1

       13 August 2014 at 3:09 pm

       yeah, I suspect he has other issues going on at the moment.

       If so, I hope they get worked out ok.
       • weka 5.4.1.1

         13 August 2014 at 3:48 pm

         My thoughts too, on both counts.
   • Murray Olsen 5.5

     14 August 2014 at 1:30 am

     I’m sad to see bad12 go. He said a lot of useful stuff, which I think will be missed. His personal attacks on people and over the top abuse won’t be missed by me at all.

     As for the election – after Nicky Hager’s book, September 20 will tell us what sort of people we are as a whole. If we vote Key back in, that will mean that we think filth like Whalespew have an important place in our formal democracy. It will mean that we don’t care how a PM maintains power, as long as he looks after the material interests of the 1% and lets us all believe we have a chance to join them.

     I never thought we were like that, and I still hope most of us aren’t.
6. karol 6

   13 August 2014 at 8:24 am

   Press Release from Jane Kelsey, on how the US redrafts legislation for other countries via trade agreements – and is likely to be able to do it for NZ’s leglislation via TPPA.

   TPPA’s dirty little secret:

   Similar communications might never be released under New Zealand’s Official Information Act, because they involveinformation entrusted to the government in confidence from another government.

   ‘In other words New Zealanders, including MPs, might never know that the US was involved in writing our laws and demanding the right to sign them off even before Parliament gets to see them’, Professor Kelsey warned.
   • Tracey 6.1

     13 August 2014 at 10:59 am

     Wayne says it’s okee dokke… the TPP, Jane just researches the TPP…
     • aerobubble 6.1.1

       13 August 2014 at 4:37 pm

       Key distracts, first the teapot sideshow, now the drunks shouting f.j.k. But I was thinking, isn’t it a mistake for Key to highlight drinking problems. I mean he’s pro-alcohol industry. How does coming off as a prude about alcohol, how he’s no boozy. That might get out. That he doesn’t. He owns the wine company but doesn’t drink excessively. What has this got to do with TPP? Well big alcohol is a global businesses, even our local breweries have foreign investors. So here’s the risk, that Kiwis wake up one day to the extortion of a TPP and realize that not only would they not drink excessively anymore, but when they did they would buy locally owned brew.

       All works of humans have risks, neo-liberalism caused the GFC, TPP will cause huge loses when the profits start flowing out due to hidden legal extortion’s in the legislation become public. So why do they keep producing bad law, bad practice, shit in the rivers. Because they make their money on the margin. Key was a money broker after all. The neo-liberalism produce his ilk. TPP does not serve the interests of free trade, or NZ, and should it become law as stated above, I believe many politicians should be prosecuted for treason.

       Lucky Key will however be living in Hawaii in his mansion, in the boss-um of beast so to speak.
       • Tracey 6.1.1.1

         13 August 2014 at 4:41 pm

         you mean like when he pretended to vote to raise the drinking age…. but hadnt voted to increase.

         sharp as a tack our john key. a bright mind… until he became a MP and he suddenly deteriorated.
         • aerobubble 6.1.1.1.1

           13 August 2014 at 4:49 pm

           Its worse. People should realize he owns a wine company, or has a wine name after him, or something. Why would you drink more excessively than your politicians? Do they want us to be to drunk to notice what they get up to. Now Muldoon was straight up, straight boozed up and nobody could probably keep up. But why would breweries want the idea getting out that politicians aren’t drinking, least consumers start cutting back too. When did you last see Key, or Whyte, slurring their word, or having a little wobble as they made their way to the podium.

           Its just wrong. I’m cutting back starting right now. Until I see my politicians getting legless again, its not going to happen to me or mine. Key wants us all drunk and stupefied.
7. marty mars 7

   13 August 2014 at 9:01 am

   key is such a slimeball

   “Key said he had drawn a “natural conclusion” when young people in the effigy-burning video were chanting the same thing as students at an Internet-Mana Party event. However, he was happy to accept he had been wrong.”

   yep fuck john key is hardly ever heard in the streets, but wait there’s more

   “”The picture of my face that was burnt as part of the effigy looked extremely similar to the one I saw in the previous Dotcom video,” Key said.”

   umm it was off your election material I think there key

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10373743/Dotcom-effigy-video-links-logical-Key

   Running scared, they will say and do anything to retain power – lying is the least of our worries.
   • Puckish Rogue 7.1

     13 August 2014 at 10:16 am

     The guy trying (and failing) to defend his actions helpfully put up pictures of his tickets to the party party so theres a decent link between them

     But then no one ever suggested IMP supporters were intelligent
     • marty mars 7.1.1

       13 August 2014 at 10:27 am

       chuck the link up old chap there’s a good fellow
       • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.1

         13 August 2014 at 10:53 am

         No point, the proof is some screen shots from the guys facebook account that whaleoil posted and as we all know the posters on here get an attack of the vapours and have to rush to their perfumed hankies whenever whaleoils mentioned

         [lprent: The odour of untreated arsecrack is a bit overwhelming otherwise. ]
         • Tracey 7.1.1.1.1

           13 August 2014 at 11:02 am

           and he would never lie or deliberately break a law now would he, oh wait a minute…. you agree with hispolitical views so his behaviour is just fine by you, and you rely on him for some of your information upon which to form your vote

           http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4127070/Whale-Oil-blogger-Cameron-Slater-guilty

           so let’s pop off the “but but vandalizing billboards is illegal” and “if an IMP supporter or 500 says fuck john key then a burning effigy must be by the same people” high horse shall we.
           • vto 7.1.1.1.1.1

             13 August 2014 at 11:08 am

             Contempt of court, tracey? You don’t say.. That is certainly one of the more serious crimes in the land…. isn’t it.

             And did you say he is decrying youthful amendments of election billboards with spraypaint?

             Is he trying to equate the two? Surely not. For his own credibility of course……
             • Tracey …

               13 August 2014 at 11:13 am

               I only know what slater is saying by those who come panting over here posting it as their latest piece of fact or gold
           • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.1.1.2

             13 August 2014 at 11:43 am

             So he got charged, found guilty, convicted, paid his debt to society and now is vigilant about people breaking name suppression

             This is a bad thing how exactly?
             • McFlock …

               13 August 2014 at 3:16 pm

               what is this thing you hu-mons call “hypocrisy”?
             • Tracey …

               13 August 2014 at 4:39 pm

               so you agree kdc criminal convictions are behind him now and irrelevant to current behaviour?
         • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.1.2

           13 August 2014 at 11:16 am

           http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/explaining-really-losing-ethan-bryant/

           • You lot will like this one as it includes a whaleoil apology

           Also

           http://www.oninstagram.com/profile/esbmediaethan

           So planned as well
           • marty mars 7.1.1.1.2.1

             13 August 2014 at 11:45 am

             That just proves he had nothing to do with the IMP so fail there you big puck.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               13 August 2014 at 11:58 am

               No but it proves theres more then a casual link
               • marty mars …

                 13 August 2014 at 12:08 pm

                 No it doesn’t prove that at all – lol – or is it because he went to a party? Seriously, that is weak.
               • felix …

                 13 August 2014 at 12:25 pm

                 If your “connection” is that he went to a party, that’s pretty much the definition of “casual link”.

                 Also, what does it say about Key’s casual links? Guess he now has to be held to account for the actions of everyone who votes national, writes on blogs for them, or goes to all black games.

                 Also also, real nice of you to leap all over the guy’s mum for no reason at all. Nasty little Govt-sanctioned brownshirt fascist creeps.
           • joe90 7.1.1.1.2.2

             13 August 2014 at 11:52 am

             So planned as well

             Well imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

             http://www.burningman.com/
         • Pascals bookie 7.1.1.1.3

           13 August 2014 at 11:35 am

           So the links between Key and WO mean Key approves of WO’s crusade against muslims I suppose.

           WO links to various neo-fascist stuff on Islam. I guess this is why National mouthpieces have been going hard calling people fascist then. Chilling stuff.
           • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1.1.3.1

             13 August 2014 at 11:56 am

             He may do but fortunately thats not the line being pushed in the msm
             • Pascals bookie …

               13 August 2014 at 11:59 am

               You like fascists then huh. Rightio.
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 13 August 2014 at 1:36 pm

                 Nope but I do like John Key as leader of the country
           • Gosman 7.1.1.1.3.2

             13 August 2014 at 12:20 pm

             Umm,,, you do realise you can dislike Islam and not be a neo-fascist don’t you? You can also link to an article that may be hosted by someone with neo-fascist views but that does not make the article neo-fascist and nor by extension does that make you one. I would draw you a Venn diagram to illustrate this but I’m not sure you would comprehend even if I did.
             • felix …

               13 August 2014 at 12:27 pm

               Go ahead and draw it up. Slater, Lusk, and Ede go in the middle section.
             • Pascals bookie …

               13 August 2014 at 12:31 pm

               Sure, but if you link to stuff about Islam being an existential threat to our way of life, and talking about the terribel effects of immigration and how Islam is a cancerous thing that western values can;t deal with blah blah, an how liberal elites just don’t get it blah blah…

               …then the similarity between that stuff and how fascists used to talk about Jews kinda screams out. And when you link to Marine le Pen, then shit, it isn’t your opponents who have any explaining to do.
               • Gosman …

                 13 August 2014 at 12:42 pm

                 Except anti-Jewish views are based more on race. I have no problem with secular Arabs or even religious ones who accept their faith should not interfere with the wider public sphere. I do have an issue with the mainstream view of Islam where upon there is no separation of religion from governance and the unequal treatment of non Muslims as a result of attempting to implement this view.
                 • Pascals bookie …

                   13 August 2014 at 12:45 pm

                   Cool story bro.
                 • tricledrown …

                   13 August 2014 at 4:18 pm

                   Most religions take that view Gossipman the Elusive Brethren especially!
             • Molly …

               13 August 2014 at 2:25 pm

               ” I would draw you a Venn diagram to illustrate this but I’m not sure you would comprehend even if I did.”

               … I’m guessing Felix’s comment to you yesterday re Venn diagrams hit a sensitive nerve.

               Good to see you have used such stellar material, but you should really give credit for this comeback to the author who introduced you to it yesterday – take a bow Felix, for providing Gosman with a better turn of phrase than the usual.
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 13 August 2014 at 3:11 pm

                 People can ask what they like or they can make up their own minds about things whether they be right or wrong but it doesn’t mean I have to answer everything especially when I think its pointless and adds nothing to the thread
                 • thatguynz …

                   13 August 2014 at 3:23 pm

                   Odd. You don’t normally offer anything to the thread so I struggle to see why you’d start being concerned about it now?
               • McFlock …

                 13 August 2014 at 3:19 pm

                 that’s the thing about tories – they steal the language of the left and use it to continue their oppression 🙂
   • aerobubble 7.2

     13 August 2014 at 4:41 pm

     John Key says drunken students shouting f.j.k is part of
     a loathsome dirty tricks campaign. I thought he was pro-alcohol,
     why the turn around? Does he hate booze now? Are opposition using
     booze to attack Key, how can Key stop them without coming across
     as attack on big alcohol. Oh, the evil b*st***s
8. Karen 8

   13 August 2014 at 10:17 am

   Wow. Just watched a replay of David Cunliffe this morning on TV3. He is so good.

   http://www.3news.co.nz/Govts-education-plans-privatisation-by-stealth—Cunliffe/tabid/1607/articleID/356624/Default.aspx

   No wonder Hooten keeps promoting David Shearer as leader. Can you imagine how awful Shearer would have been in these interviews. Labour would have had no show.
   • phillip ure 8.1

     13 August 2014 at 10:35 am

     that is a good interview..

     ..and i have shared that thought re shearer over recent days..

     ..labour/the progressive cause missed a bullet there..

     ..he will be fine as a minister..but as party leader..?.

     no..no…no….no..
     • felix 8.1.1

       13 August 2014 at 4:15 pm

       Yep it was a very good interview, and not the only one.

       It’d be nice if Labour could capitalise on his talents by putting his face on the billboards.
   • Kiwiri 8.2

     13 August 2014 at 12:43 pm

     Nice! Like!
     Good stuff!
   • Bearded Git 8.3

     13 August 2014 at 2:53 pm

     Agreed karen-this is why NZ Herald, DomPost, Hooton, Gower etc ad infinitum tried to destroy Cunliffe before the campaign.

     They failed, and even Chris Trotter has come round to the fact that Cunliffe might now win this. See his latest at:

     http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/we-have-lift-off-some-thoughts-on.html
     • Rodel 8.3.1

       13 August 2014 at 8:05 pm

       Karen
       Thanks for the link. He’s good! Very good.
9. Draco T Bastard 9

   13 August 2014 at 11:52 am

   James Allan’s Democracy in Decline is now available in Auckland Libraries (Well, it will be as soon as I finish reading it 😀 )

   To tide you over here’s a video of his NZ tour.
10. crocodill 10

    13 August 2014 at 12:20 pm

    Always curious about how our culture believes in a hierarchy of human pain, and presumably, if you’re further up the hierarchy, no one else’s pain counts. It’s like trading kid’s fantasy game cards. You got beat up? Well I got run over, twice, so shut up I win the attention!

    Simonne Butler has written a book about her younger years and about knowing Antoine Dixon, just before he attacked her with a sword. She says of her book, “A lot of people would come across me who had way less crap in their lives and they’re letting it drag them down and nothing drags me down, nothing ever has, and that is very helpful to people…It’s full of violence. My hands getting chopped off was just one bad day in my life. I was getting beaten up every other day. For everyone else that was this really bad thing, but for me it was just one more day in my life.”

    Where on the hierarchy of pain does defacing election signs lie? What about having to share your neighbourhood with poor people? What about having the grass on the city berms grow a bit too long? What about depression?

    If general impressions are true, all those things are much further down the scale. I was just wondering what Ms. Butler would have said to Robin Williams a few weeks ago, had they met – would he be dead today? Would she point out the fantastic life he had despite his pain, compared to hers, and that would inspire him to buck up, harden up, grow a thick skin or whatever it is you’re meant to do to “get over yourself” and come to believe that everyone is exactly the same, mentally and emotionally, as the next person? Or would she say, “Hey Robin, you know if all indicators are correct, life isn’t the end. There could be better comedy material in death than in life. You’ll do what’s right for you.” And maybe he would have used the reply he once said his Father liked to use for stupid ideas, and said, “Hmmm. Interesting concept.” and then gone ahead and done whatever he was always going to do, as his own reality dictated.

    Butler says she was young and dumb, a bit stupid. Life requires all types, and being able to think can drag a person down. Ms. Butler doesn’t let anything drag her down and hopefully for her she’ll continue along that path. She’s created quite the conundrum for me, though. If I buy her book it might encourage her to keep writing, but writing usually involves thinking and then she’ll lose the shield of ignorance and things will start to drag her down. If I don’t buy her book, she might wonder why and start to think and get all down about it, or she won’t, and she’ll move on with life. So possibly the problem isn’t the book, or the thinking. The problem might be that most people look for validation of their personal worth from outside circumstances or achievements.

    So bear in mind today, if you have no food in the house, no money, are ill, jobless, about to be evicted; maybe you’re about to release your book, or someone just done wrote over John Key’s face; at least you still have your hands and no one has beaten you up. Quit your whining and think of the children in Africa. They don’t even have pictures of John Key.

    Remember that despite your problems, right now, somewhere inside, somewhere deep deep inside, (and if you’re voting Right this Spring…) somewhere way way waaaay deep down near your hidden core, somewhere no one can see or know about, you’re good enough. Whatever it is that keeps your heart beating is the ultimate validation. Rich or poor, Dark or Light, man or woman, healthy or not, whether you acknowledge it or not, it’s the same unconditional power.
11. Saarbo 11

    13 August 2014 at 1:06 pm

    An interesting article from Bill English where he states that we don’t need to worry about Chinese buying our dairy farms because they are hopeless businesses, and sooner or later they will realise this and sell up.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/10372225/Pengxin-may-not-survive-Bill-English.

    Amazingly it goes completely against what Fonterra is saying about the future of the Dairy industry.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/10373405/Marginal-return-on-milk-solids-argument-flawed

    Isn’t DAIRY FARMING at the centre of National’s economic development plan…must be some ammo in this. National really have no fuckin idea what they are doing, nor do the 46% people voting for them.
12. Pasupial 12

    13 August 2014 at 2:22 pm

    I’m no friend of David Clark; Labour electorate MP for Dunedin North, which is why I feel it important to note when he gets something right:

    Nurse-to-patient ratios in Dunedin Hospital’s emergency department are being stretched to as many as one to 10… Dr Clark, who is Labour’s associate health spokesman, said nurses were carrying more than the standard accepted workload of one nurse to three patients in an ”increasingly desperate” situation.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/312430/too-few-nurses-mp

    I have talked to nurses over the past year who are utterly frustrated with the shortsighted costcutting of SDHB management. The long hours shift work make regular life very difficult, especially when you factor in the exhaustion from excessive workload. But the most telling sign of contempt for ED nurses, and wider community health, is this measure that is still being bitterly fought (despite what this article and the Nurse’s own union claim):

    Some emergency department nurses fought a change that has them laundering their uniforms, Dunedin Hospital ED specialist John Chambers says… nurses felt ”very strongly” about the possible infection risk from washing their own uniform. They had appealed to management citing scientific evidence, but the change went ahead… North Dunedin MP David Clark said the problem of antibiotic resistance made hygiene practices more central to infection control, and he could understand the nurses’ concern.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/309610/some-nurses-unwilling-wash-uniforms

    Note that this is at one of the country’s leading teaching hospitals. So that these penny pinching measures will become the norm across the entire health system as University & Polytech graduates disperse throughout the country.

    Dunedin North’s other leading electorate MP candidate; Woodhouse of the Nats, has no problem with any of this so long as the numbers look good on paper. But then, he is often seen as a parliamentary representative of the private-health industry, and shares responsibility in the long project of undermining the ACC:

    National MP and Dunedin North candidate Michael Woodhouse yesterday dismissed Dr Clark’s claims as nothing more than ”desperate electioneering”.

    ”This Government has lifted Southern’s annual funding to a record $833 million – over $120 million more than in 2008 – and there are now 116 extra nurses and 62 extra doctors employed by Southern DHB compared to 2008.
    • Murray Olsen 12.1

      14 August 2014 at 2:00 am

      One nurse to three patients seems like a low ratio for an emergency department. I was in a transplant ward in Brisbane for a while recently, and their ratio was one to two. In Emergency I assume it would be higher. One to ten is asking for disaster. It’s good to see the Labour guy taking a stand. I can’t see the Tories being interested in much more than the cut of the nurses’ uniforms.
13. Bearded Git 13

    13 August 2014 at 2:23 pm

    This is fascinating if you are interested in peak oil, climate change or economics.

    A highlight for me:

    “The major companies are struggling to find viable reserves, forcing them take on ever more leverage to explore in marginal basins, often gambling that much higher prices in the future will come to the rescue. Global output of conventional oil peaked in 2005 despite huge investment…..The International Energy Agency in Paris says global investment in fossil fuel supply rose from $400bn to $900bn during the boom from 2000 and 2008, doubling in real terms. It has since levelled off, reaching $950bn last year. The returns have been meagre. Not a single large oil project has come on stream at a break-even cost below $80 a barrel for almost three years.”

    It’s all here:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11024845/Oil-and-gas-company-debt-soars-to-danger-levels-to-cover-shortfall-in-cash.html
14. Puckish Rogue 14

    13 August 2014 at 3:13 pm

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/08/internet-party-vote-winning-strategy-harassing-blacks/

    • I don’t think that was the real Dan Carter (why would he really bother following the internet party) but if it was then having a go at him will lose you more votes then you’ll gain
    • marty mars 14.1

      13 August 2014 at 5:44 pm

      puck that is pretty confused – may be dan, may not be, and apart from that crucial information the actual content is uncontroversial. Come on fella surely there are better shit storms than this out there for the right or have you lot given up .
15. Puckish Rogue 15

    13 August 2014 at 3:41 pm

    Vote positive

    http://i1.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Mallard-Nazi.png
    • felix 15.1

      13 August 2014 at 4:10 pm

      What’s your problem with the tweet? Seems fairly uncontroversial to me.
      • Puckish Rogue 15.1.1

        13 August 2014 at 4:14 pm

        I’m sure you think its uncontroversial an MP linking John Key to Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini
        • felix 15.1.1.1

          13 August 2014 at 4:22 pm

          Yep, if the comparison is appropriate.

          You don’t get to go around boasting that you’ve hated unions since you were 15 and expect no-one will ever link you to others with the same views.
        • The Al1en 15.1.1.2

          13 August 2014 at 4:25 pm

          I think it’s more a dig at the states, and jk, being so tightly inserted into uncle sam’s corporate bum, is bound to cop it by ‎arseociation (sic), and cop a share when the the sh!t goes down.

          Edit:

          Send that joke to a comedian and tell them they can use it for free as long as they donate a food basket to the sallies in Hamilton.
          • marty mars 15.1.1.2.1

            13 August 2014 at 5:47 pm

            it isn’t funny allen sorry bub
            • The Al1en 15.1.1.2.1.1

              13 August 2014 at 6:54 pm

              Everyone’s a critic an all, but worry not, like the subject matter of the joke, it’s just a wise crack from a smarter arse 😉 🙂
      • weka 15.1.2

        13 August 2014 at 4:14 pm

        PR get’s paid per click through for WO, so any old thing works, doesn’t matter if its relevant or making sense.
        • felix 15.1.2.1

          13 August 2014 at 4:22 pm

          Ah of course.
        • Puckish Rogue 15.1.2.2

          13 August 2014 at 4:26 pm

          Everytime you click on whaleoil I get more shares in NZs power companies
          • Rodel 15.1.2.2.1

            13 August 2014 at 8:13 pm

            Why would anyone here want to click on waloil? We wouldn’t want to waste one grey matter cell.
16. The Al1en 16

    13 August 2014 at 3:53 pm

    Thousands still not enrolled to vote a week before deadline
    http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/thousands-still-not-enrolled-vote-week-before-deadline-6055519

    “Nearly 400,000 people may miss the chance for a quicker vote on election day if they don’t enrol in the next week.
    The Electoral Commission says there are still 380,000 eligible New Zealanders who haven’t enrolled to vote on September 20”

    There’s the 800,000 that didn’t vote last time, with half of them ready to go this time out, which will do nicely if they’re inclined to vote key out.
    Getting more involved and participating would be nice, but even if only half of those 400k turnout on election day, that’ll see national gone before supper time.

    “and over half of them are under 30.”

    I was going to say it shows even 3 mil and celebrity rock ‘n roll can’t get reach kids, that or shows some kids can’t be bought by flashing lights and cult infamy smoke and mirrors, but to be fair, green or red hasn’t got them yet either, so no need for a dig for the sake of it. :halo:
    • marty mars 16.1

      13 August 2014 at 5:51 pm

      at least IMP are trying – all you do is moan and spin like a trade me washing machine
      • The Al1en 16.1.1

        13 August 2014 at 10:00 pm

        When in Rome, Obelix.
17. aerobubble 17

    13 August 2014 at 4:52 pm

    Protest John Key, don’t drink, he’s the front man for big alcohol, or he thinks drunks are at the heart of a political conspiracy, whichever, its about time politicians got drunk on TV to show their do as they say not do as they do.
18. Colonial Viper 18

    13 August 2014 at 7:14 pm

    From the Dim-Post:

    I will blog on it at length later, but after a speed read the big reveals are:

    1. The Prime Minister’s office hacked into Labour’s servers, obtaining information about its donors and membership, passed the information onto Cameron Slater and then lied about it.

    2. The Prime Minister’s office told Slater to OIA classified SIS documents, then had the SIS declassify them and released to Slater.

    You can be sure that with this kind of intelligence services access, the Tories are running black lists of names in every part of NZ society.

    [lprent: I have moved this to OpenMike as being a thread rapidly becoming unrelated to the post. ]
    • karol 18.1

      13 August 2014 at 7:19 pm

      The book also claims they planned to attack Peter Dunne through his (alleged) secret donors from the tobacco industry.
      • Te Reo Putake 18.1.1

        13 August 2014 at 7:44 pm

        Peter Dunne, associate Minister of Health from 2005 to 2013? Say it ain’t so. Boy, has he got some big decisions to make tonight. Deny, bluster and threaten to sue or wave bye bye to Ohariu. Gone in a puff of smoke?
    • infused 18.2

      13 August 2014 at 7:58 pm

      lol hacked. The website was left open by a bug, which promptly got fixed.

      [lprent: A statement that isn’t related to either the post, nor to the comment you responded to. Why? Are you looking for a ban for trolling off-topic? ]
      • infused 18.2.1

        13 August 2014 at 8:03 pm

        Might be time to see spec savers lprent.

        1. The Prime Minister’s office hacked into Labour’s servers, obtaining information about its donors and membership, passed the information onto Cameron Slater and then lied about it.

        [lprent: Apologies. You are correct, I thought you were referring to Slaters system being hacked rather than the NZLP.

        BTW: The NZLP site wasn’t left open by a “bug”. It was obviously left open by someone deleting the Document page that protected the site and leaving the default file indexing on, which left the sites files visible. It was just stupid and something that most people using apache have managed to do at some point in time.

        Unfortunately that default configuration was a flaw (the old design docs for apache made the quite clear). However it was a deliberate flaw that took more than a decade to get corrected. ]
      • karol 18.2.2

        13 August 2014 at 8:11 pm

        I guess them saying the website was left open (and not hacked) was the lie.
      • infused 18.2.3

        13 August 2014 at 8:13 pm

        Here is what I am referring to, which is what I suspect the book is referring to.

        http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2011/06/labour-leaks-how-i-did-it/

        and

        Hence my reference to lol hacked.
        • Macro 18.2.3.1

          13 August 2014 at 8:24 pm

          So if you leave your back door open one day – and I go inside and read all your mail and take copies in order to embarrass you at some point – that’s totally ok is it?
    • weka 18.3

      13 August 2014 at 8:18 pm

      You really want us to take Slater’s word for something at this point, lol?

      “Hence my reference to lol hacked.”

      So could Joe and Joelene Blogs have accessed the data? (I assume not). Or did it need specialist knowledge? Where’s the line between hacking and not?
      • weka 18.3.1

        13 August 2014 at 8:21 pm

        arrrg, comments disappearing all over the place.
    • Colonial Viper 18.4

      13 August 2014 at 11:16 pm

      Thanks lprent.
19. The Other Mike 19

    13 August 2014 at 9:20 pm

    Just seen this (troll warning I guess!)

    http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020920/full/news020916-17.html

    Suicide and political regime in New South Wales and Australia during the 20th century

    Snip: “A nation’s suicide rate increases under right-wing governments according two studies that have looked at Australia and Britain over the past century.

    Alienation and isolation may run higher in societies driven by competitive market forces, suggest the teams behind the findings. Left-wing rule, focusing more on equality, might put people under less pressure.

    Governments should consider their role in public health beyond spending, says social scientist Mary Shaw of the University of Bristol, UK. “We need to look not just at the immediate biomedical factors affecting health, but also how we organize society,” she says.

    In New South Wales, Australia, suicides soared when federal and state governments were Conservative, a team at the University of Sydney has found. They were lowest when the Labour Party ruled both.”
20. lprent 20

    13 August 2014 at 9:35 pm

    In reply to http://thestandard.org.nz/cameron-slater-dirties-john-key-or-vice-versa/#comment-865694

    Do you know anything about the hacking of Labour’s computers, Lprent?

    Not particularly. I asked a couple of non-tech people inside Labour afterwards. Their description of what happened is characteristic. I have set up a lot of IIS, nginx and apache2 servers including this one (many times).

    This is from the ubuntu 10.04 guide about apache2. My bold

    Default Settings
    This section explains configuration of the Apache2 server default settings. For example, if you add a virtual host, the settings you configure for the virtual host take precedence for that virtual host. For a directive not defined within the virtual host settings, the default value is used.

    The DirectoryIndex is the default page served by the server when a user requests an index of a directory by specifying a forward slash (/) at the end of the directory name.

    For example, when a user requests the page http://www.example.com/this_directory/, he or she will get either the DirectoryIndex page if it exists, a server-generated directory list if it does not and the Indexes option is specified, or a Permission Denied page if neither is true. The server will try to find one of the files listed in the DirectoryIndex directive and will return the first one it finds. If it does not find any of these files and if Options Indexes is set for that directory, the server will generate and return a list, in HTML format, of the subdirectories and files in the directory. The default value, found in /etc/apache2/mods-available/dir.conf is “index.html index.cgi index.pl index.php index.xhtml index.htm”. Thus, if Apache2 finds a file in a requested directory matching any of these names, the first will be displayed.
    • Tom Jackson 20.1

      13 August 2014 at 9:47 pm

      Cheers. I’m not super computer-literate, but I see how that would work. Also painfully evident from the extracts I’ve seen that National lied egregiously about what they did with it.
21. Clemgeopin 21

    13 August 2014 at 10:03 pm

    Back Benches tonight.

    Wednesday 10:45PM

    Wallace and Damian ignite debate over Labour’s $280M plan to provide free GP visits for some. Plus, are burning effigies and racial slurs just a glimpse at the future of campaigning? PGR
22. Mike 22

    15 August 2014 at 10:50 am

    Funny, no-one on your blog seems to be talking about the latest Stuff Poll.

    National

    55.1%
    Change +0.3 pts

    Labour

    22.5%
    Change -2.4 pts

    Greens

    11.3%
    Change -1.1 pts

    NZ First

    3.4%
    Change +0.8 pts

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