Well done to Parliament for passing the ban on "conversion therapy". And credit where it's due, to those National and ACT MPs who had previously expressed misgivings but voted for it in the end. 122-8 is a stonking result.
Interviewed this morning on TVNZ's Breakfast (not online yet), Christopher Luxon made clear he voted for the ban (good) but then squirmed when asked about the 8 Nats who voted against the bill.
He claimed MPs in other parties opposed the bill too. The interviewer (McClean) did not challenge this assertion. He should have.
So who were the eight? Simon Bridges, Simeon Brown, Melissa Lee, Todd McClay, Simon O'Connor, Chris Penk, Michael Woodhouse and Shane Reti. None of them bothered to speak to explain their hate – too ashamed, I guess
Yes, we know who the Nat MPs are, their votes are on the record.
My point was that Luxon claimed there were other MPs who didn't vote against, but secretly were.
We can speculate, of course (a few Labour and ACT MPs could be possible). But it's a claim that should be backed up with evidence. Otherwise it's just a diversion smear on all MPs from all other parties.
Michael Woodhouse is the only one that is a bit surprising. The others are predictable conservatives (even though Reti is quite sensible on Covid and other matters).
"None of them bothered to speak to explain their hate – too ashamed, I guess"
It's not 'hate' that keeps me from your own self-congratulation, it's concern.
I think – as shown in other countries where similar legislation has been passed – that due to the vague wording, and lack of separation between same sex orientation and gender identity 'conversion' therapy, we will see a tendency toward the affirmation only model in NZ. A conversion therapy of its own, which also creates harm.
Actually Molly , it may be possible to apply this law as a protection against those transwomen who badger lesbians for sex using their fully functional "female" penises.
In effect these biological males attempt to convert lesbians from their natural sexual preferences
Geez francesca alls fair in love an war right ? You make it sound like there are hoards of these transgender males out harassing poor "natural " lesbians .Whats your actual experience ?
The article itself includes quotes from a statement released by Stonewall chief executive Nancy Kelley, in which she says:
“If you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it’s worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.”
This is more explicit than previous statements. In the past Kelley has claimed that those who recognise the importance of biological sex are as morally reprehensible as those who hate Jewish people. It seems Kelley also believes homosexuality is akin to racism. Given this, one wonders on what basis Stonewall can claim to advocate for homosexuals?"
You are possibly not going to listen to the podcast Weston. So just to sumarize a public servant was attending a training run by Inisde Outabout inclusivity at her workplace.
The public servant bravely and within context pointed out that her sister was lesbian and surely she shouldn't be expected to have a sex partner who was male bodied. The tutor said, we don't use that term now. The public servant then got a letter from the Deputy CE chastising her for using this term and saying the tutor and other employees found her use of the word male bodied offensive. So challenging the rights of lesbians to not to have sex with male bodied trans women, gets you a letter from your boss. Trans women must not be referred to as male bodied. Make of that what you will.
The ridiculous thing is it took a lot of bravery for the woman to stand up at her work meeting and say this and to assert her freedom of speech to her Boss
Hi ankor only just found your reply sorry .I did listen to the podcast golly dosnt sound like a very nice place to work for the particular public servant !orwelian is a fitting description .Have to confess i find all this stuff confusing , in the times ive been involved with lesbians there was just lesbians an gays an straights more or less and amongst the lesbians i know and count as friends theyve mostly settled down now and as far as i know are much less idiologically driven .In their time though they could scaresly have been thought of as reqiring protection and were very strong women in their own right heck one of them drove a tractor into town to get her groceries and on occasion fired shots over my head to let me know i was tresspassing { she mustve thought i was thinking of doing so cause i was walking on a private path at the time !}
Hi Weston, appreciate you took the time to listen to the podcast.
It is truly Orwelian. I have recently read 1984 in which the term newspeak was used whcih is exactly what is happening here.
Things have changed a lot over the last five or 10 years. How I see it is the universities are teaching young people gender ideology and if you don't accept it, it become very problematic. There have been many posts on this site about what is happening. If you are interested in finding out more about gender ideology let me know and I'll post some links.
Geez francesca alls fair in love an war right ? You make it sound like there are hoards of these transgender males out harassing poor "natural " lesbians .Whats your actual experience ?
All's fair in love and war? Let's make it plain then. Do you believe that lesbians should date male bodied people despite being only attracted to female bodies?
Sorry for the delay replying weka my reply tab only works about one time out of five ! Should is not a word i would use in this context and why would i agree with such a silly statement ?
Lesbianism wasnt invented yesterday weka and lesbians are just human beings after all subject to pretty much all the same relationship issues as we all are whether we are seeking long term relationships or a one night stand .
I queried francesca,s statement which suggested all these transgender males were harrassing lesbians , turns out she had whatched somthing produced by BBC .Are you saying i shoudnt have asked ?
As a non-conforming Asperger's teenager, I would have been a prime candidate for ROGD if I had the access to the internet that we have now. Discomfort with puberty and a sense of not being naturally feminine, and inquisitive for answers would have me prepped and ready for gender ideology. I don't honestly know what choice I would have made.
However, I do know that the prevalence of autistic, and non-conforming children in the transgender community deserves some scrutiny and research. We may do irreparable harm to many, if the conversion therapy bill results in 'affirmation only' models of therapy and counselling. There is some indication that that is already occurring in NZ.
The contradiction of providing medical interventions for a condition no longer considered medical is without precedent as far as I know.
It strikes me that it is the Gender Critical that really don't have a problem with self expression and identity exploration. This has been ignored when discussing this issue that perpetuates gender stereotypes. It is also quite fascinating to see recent criticisms of Gender Critical Feminists being the ones to perpetuate gender stereotypes. I think this is indicative of a movement that avoids scrutiny and casts aspersions. We will see how they get on.
We also know that while the promotion and celebration is public and uplifting, the isolation and lack of support for detransitioners is invisible. This has an effect on both transition and detransition.
Badly done to Parliament for passing the badly worded piece of legislation that relied on people's abhorrence of gay conversion therapy to avoid scrutiny.
Despite not showing evidence of this particular practice being a concern in present-day New Zealand, this practice was deemed so harmful that the passing of this legislation (along with others) was considered a necessity. Despite submissions against, and requests for clarity. Despite concerns that it is not specified that effective therapy may result in a resolution of gender dysphoria. Despite the fact that this legislation in other countries had resulted in the 'affirmation only' model being practiced, a conversion therapy of its own, and so, with consequent harms. Despite the now familiar practice of including gender identity in a discussion about sexual orientation, and conflating the two.
Oh, the bigots must of course be ignored.
Strangely enough, the bigoted Equality and Human Rights Commission in the UK, recently issued a statement regarding very similar legislation for the Scottish government:
Before addressing the specific consultation questions, we have some general comments about the Government’s proposals and the consultation approach. We are supportive of measures to end harmful conversion therapy practices, but the likely significant and wide-ranging implications of the Government’s proposals for a legislative ban for criminal and civil justice, clinicians and therapists, families and religious organisations require careful and detailed consideration. The consultation document contains no clear definition of what will amount to “conversion therapy” caught by its proposals, nor of the meaning of “transgender” – a term which has no clear legal meaning, is potentially wider than the concept of gender reassignment in current UK law, and is understood by different people in different ways.
Nor does the consultation address the possible need to consider a differentiated approach in relation to sexual orientation and being transgender so as to ensure, in particular, that clinicians and therapists are not prohibited from providing appropriate care and support for individuals with gender dysphoria. Given the documented lack of evidence about conversion therapy in relation to being transgender, recent attention and litigation on the implications of medical and surgical transition, and the ongoing NHS-commissioned independent review of gender identity services for children and young people led by Dr Hilary Cass OBE, we consider that these matters require further careful and detailed consideration before legislative proposals are finalised and the implications of them can be fully understood.
Same bigoted areas of concern. Oh, well.
Remember this day years hence, when you wonder how much harm resulted from such good intentions, when all you were trying to do was be kind.
The consultation document contains no clear definition of …
Of course not. Nothing can be clearly defined anymore. Anything means whatever the individual wants it to mean.
Only a bigot expects actual definition. Actual clarity of meaning. Actual reality. Actual science. Actual critical thinking and perhaps a passing thought about long term (unintended) adverse effects.
We need to get with the program Molly…get on board that feels good train…
With the passage of this bill and the Births Deaths and Marriage Bill, wasn't your essential female nature supposed to have evaporated along with your actual existence by now?
Strangely enough Ad. Despite the slogans, and words on a piece of paper passed by parliament, I do still know what it is to be a woman, and the consequences of that reality.
"With the passage of this bill and the Births Deaths and Marriage Bill, wasn't your essential female nature supposed to have evaporated along with your actual existence by now?"
You've made this comment in various ways a couple of times now. It seems to be a projection of the external validation needed by some who claim they are being denied the right to exist. That's not me.
I still have objections to the appropriation of words and language that accurately describe being a woman or female. But existence is not dependent on other's misuse of those terms.
Don’t worry. You’ve earned your ticket …get on board.
Thank you Molly for articulating why some of us have concerns with this bill.
Currently children are being taught at school at a young age that it is possible to be born in the wrong body (no it isn't) and that there are many genders (upwards of 70 are quoted). Many kids are gender non conforming. A close relative of mine was and she grew up to be gay, this is what the research supports. She had the freedom to be a tom boy and eventually realized she was gay, in her late teens.
Now days these kids are being encourged to think they are trans. This is the beginning to social and medical transition. These kids are being given puberty blockers and cross sex hormones and the changes these cause to their bodies can not be rolled back to easily. So young women are being left with male sound voices, facial hair and Adams Apples (in some cases). So are using breast binders and some are having double masectomies and hysterectomies by the age of 19 years. this kids are left with irreversible damage. There are currently 25.000 such detransitioners on Reddit.
The Bill will mean any parent or health professional that tries to stop the path of medical transition could be considered offering a conversion practice. Rainbow Youth and their allies only want affirmation therapy for these vulnerable teans who are not old enough to consent to life altering surgery.
If you read Counting Ourselves, it is very clear that the transgender people in this survey felt they experienced conversion practice from a range of health professionals.
There is very little evidence that health professionals use what is usually considered converstion practices. Certainly no ethical ones do. So the people in this survey I think consider anything other that affirmation and confirmation of the gender identity as conversion therapy.
"The Bill will mean any parent or health professional that tries to stop the path of medical transition could be considered offering a conversion practice. "
I hope that is not the case. What is true, is that the legislation allows for interpretation where this may result. No clarification edits were made before passing.
The Counting Ourselves publication is worth a critical read. The self validation of the survey takers, has no standard by which to judge credibility or bias.
The dearth of robust data is commonplace on this issue, and its many impacts.
''The interviewer (McClean) did not challenge this assertion. He should have.''
I agree, although I doubt National MPs who voted against the bill were all religious or anti gay.
''Luxon claimed MPs in other parties opposed the bill too .''
I would say that's correct, given the high percentage of Maori and Island MPs in the Labour Party. No doubt walking past the political corpse of Louisa Wall cleared the sinuses and focused the mind when it came time to vote.
Strange when you think Faʻafafines are a part of Polynesian life.
"…but nevertheless worth celebrating as another nail in the coffin of bigotry, imho."
Such nuance, detail and understanding.
And yet, it could have been excellent legislation (although probably still unnecessary) if they had just addressed the concerns put forward by those 'bigots'. What was the prevalence of conversion therapy in NZ in 2021? Is there a difference between gay conversion therapy, and appropriate therapy for gender dysphoria that explores each individual's needs, and may result in a reconciliation between someone's biological sex and their gender identity? How do we ensure that the 'affirmation only' model for gender identity is not the result for therapists, counsellors, which in itself can be shown to be a type of conversion therapy?
But at least we did have it explained particularly ambiguously, by the Minister. (Apologies for being unable to find the sound recording where he does exceptionally well at accurately portraying the undefined nature of what exactly is being converted, and how that will be determined. It was a masterclass in bumbling obfuscation) But only 'bigots' are concerned on those points.
Robust discussion…well, it was good while it lasted.
Molly, I was replying to observer @1; you were the first person (@1.5) to introduce "bigots" and "bigoted" into this "robust discussion." I can't help feeling differently to you about this legislation, nor (imho) will any amount of robust discussion shift our respective views. Let’s agree to disagree.
Talk about a continuation of redirect from relevant content.
I have no concern with being called a 'bigot' or 'transphobic' on this issue. I have seen how and when this is deployed, and have no problem being included with those who have tried to raise concerns about the failure of such legislation to define terms and address unintended impacts and have been labelled in such a way.
I have also been told that my understanding of the words 'woman' and 'female' are exclusionary. Well, the misuse and appropriation of language is a deliberate feature here. The fact that 'bigot' is used nonsensically is par for the course.
"What was the prevalence of conversion therapy in NZ in 2021? Is there a difference between gay conversion therapy, and appropriate therapy for gender dysphoria that explores each individual's needs, and may result in a reconciliation between someone's biological sex and their gender identity? How do we ensure that the 'affirmation only' model for gender identity is not the result for therapists, counsellors, which in itself can be shown to be a type of conversion therapy?"
Any thoughts on the above? Or on the concerns raised by the EHRC on similar points in the Conversion Therapy Bill in the Scottish government?
No?
Well, we may disagree, but I contend that our disagreement comes from a complete failure on your part to do investigation and look deeper.
My evidence for this is your failure to even address those concerns listed above, and redirect to the most mundane of assumptions.
Well, we may disagree, but I contend that our disagreement comes from a complete failure on your part to do investigation and look deeper.
We most certainly do disagree, and I'm trying not to be disagreeable about that. Since my reply @1.7 to observer seems to have riled you so, and since you have judged my considered and deeply held views to derive from a complete failure on my part, that leaves me nowhere to go except to express my genuine disappointment.
My disappointment is genuine – "manipulation" is a misperception.
"Complacency", "failure" "failure" "failure", "manipulation" – no thanks.
I don't respond to such with capitulation…
None of my comments in this thread were made to elicit "capitulation" – again that's a misperception, imho. I don't need anyone's capitulation. As observer observed @1: "122-8 is a stonking result."
I respond to you in the hope that a discussion will ensue, about the concerns raised.
I don't use my emotive reaction to your comments as points worthy of expression. I consider it manipulation, I avoid the same when parenting. My comments to you are not unique in that regard.
I, however, persist in asking for discussion on the points raised.
But I understand the avoidance. There have been repeated examples of this on this topic. What is one more?
I respond to you in the hope that a discussion will ensue, about the concerns raised.
You and others have raised concerns. Some of these concerns I share to a greater or lesser extent. I have my own concerns. We have discussed this before, and in some of my comments I've provided a small amount of personal information as to where I'm coming from, but generally it seems that the more we correspond, the more heated the discussion becomes (like now), such that there is nothing to be gained by continuing – we disagree.
On balance, I support the legislation that has just been voted into law (see @1 and @1.7). The reasons underpinning my support relate mostly to personal experiences that I won't detail on this blog. If it turns out that the outcomes of that legislation are, on balance, negative for NZers, then trust me that I won't be part of a "see no evil, hear no evil" whitewash to cover up those negative outcomes.
"You and others have raised concerns. Some of these concerns I share to a greater or lesser extent. I have my own concerns. We have discussed this before, and in some of my comments I've provided a small amount of personal information as to where I'm coming from, but generally it seems that the more we correspond, the more heated the discussion becomes (like now), such that there is nothing to be gained by continuing – we disagree."
We have indeed discussed this before, and looking back on your link it is more of the same. No real addressing of content, just reiteration of perspective and feelings.
This discussion might feel heated for you, but that is not a view shared by me. I'm persistent in asking for a discussion of the issues, and not moved from this by your personal feelings.
"On balance, I support the legislation that has just been voted into law (see @1 and @1.7). The reasons underpinning my support relate in large part to personal experiences that I won't detail on this blog."
That's convenient. A possibility of actual discussion subverted once again.
"If it turns out that the outcomes of that legislation are, on balance, negative for NZers, then trust me that I won't be part of a "see no evil, hear no evil" whitewash to cover up those negative outcomes."
Yes, using a considered and precautionary approach that prevents harm occurring is such an outdated concept. I'm less reassured than you that any consequent harms for individuals won't have to number in the thousands before it gets addressed.
You have spent a considerable amount of time and words to contribute neither critique or justification.
Then given yourself permission to not provide any.
"Convenient" is your word. It wasn't, isn’t, and your concerns are moving me less and less with every comment – nonetheless I will continue to share some of them. Carry on.
I see you have participated in some discussion below with Rosemary.
I didn't aim to 'move' you with my concerns, I hoped to discuss them, and perhaps be persuaded that they were unwarranted. I'll have to go elsewhere for that as you say your points on this are unable to be articulated on this blog.
Well done, for at least making a start down below.
I'll concede that Rosemary has a more successful approach to drawing you out, and will read with interest what transpires.
Molly, not interested in persuading you that your concerns are unwarranted – on the contrary, I think that some are warranted, to various degrees. We each have views and concerns that are informed by personal experiences and other information; my personal experiences are the single most important reason that I'm pleased this legislation has been passed, and (in this particular instance) I can't help how I feel.
Any and all negative outcomes will be regrettable, and if negative outcomes are actually as numerous and/or severe as some believe then NZ's legislation may be modified or repealed. Time will tell.
"Molly, not interested in persuading you that your concerns are unwarranted – on the contrary, I think that some are warranted, to various degrees. We each have views and concerns that are informed by personal experiences and other information; my personal experiences are the single most important reason that I'm pleased this legislation has been passed, and (in this particular instance) I can't help how I feel."
Fair enough. But why engage at all if you are not prepared to discuss another perspective? I'm willing to have my ideas and perspectives challenged and be informed, but to do that I first have to articulate them and expose them for critique.
"…my personal experiences are the single most important reason that I'm pleased this legislation has been passed,…"
Once again, fair enough. But if you are unwilling to give that perspective, then don't engage.
My pseudonym comes from the Molly Whuppy story that used to be on Sunday mornings on 1ZB, and the phrase that leaps to mind is "Oh, if you could see what I see….". Said from inside a sack that was pitch dark.
Women on TS talking on various aspects of the legislation impacts have revealed sustained familial sexual abuse, personal experience of sexual attacks and other personal experiences not because they enjoy the reveal of past trauma, but in an effort to bring understanding.
Coy referrals to personal experiences, to my mind, is a dishonest method of engagement. Either keep those experiences and thoughts private, and enter the discussion regardless, or don't enter it at all. If you don't recognise this approach as manipulative in any way, then on this, we disagree.
The perspective you refer to – but don't articulate – may be of immense value in improving the discussion. But we will never know.
I see you have redirected once again on Rosemary's thread.
Once again, fair enough. But if you are unwilling to give that perspective, then don't engage.
Thanks Molly, that's good advice. I've avoided replying to your comments for a few months now, and my attempt (@1.7.1.1) to disengage was a momentary lapse on my part. Won't happen again.
….deeply held views… Can I assume that you do truly believe that the appropriate way to manage gender dysphoria is with lifelong powerful drugs and surgery to amputate or modify healthy body parts?
And that talking therapies that help a (usually quite young) person to accept the body they are born with and learn that it is perfectly ok to have a different gender is wrong and evil and should be criminalized?
Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offence in New Zealand?
Asking for a friend
My immediate answers to your very even-handed questions were going to be 'Never', and 'Of course not', but, on reflection, 'Case by case' for Q.1, and for Q.2 'It should be an individual's (even if quite young) right to have an input into decisions about what 'therapies' they are subjected to.'
It's appropriate for our government and/or health services to determine what therapies are medically acceptible/justifiable, and those determinations should be based on data relating to treatment outcomes. Those who are of the view that it never hurts to 'talk' must have led charmed lives indeed.
See. That wasn't that difficult was it? This is almost a discussion.
It's appropriate for our government and/or health services to determine what therapies are medically acceptible/justifiable,
Hmmm…do you really expect me, of Misery/Mystery/Miserly of Health fame, to accept that? Of course the Ministry is keeping up with the trend… but clearly medical science left the building when this Advisory was written, because some fool seems to think that sex is "assigned" at birth rather than being a biological fact that was observed and noted by a health professional.
And while this is a very wordy Advisory…it details no therapy other than ….
Gender affirming health care, including surgical procedures such as those listed below, are the responsibility of DHBs. Patients seeking these procedures should be referred to their local DHB provider:
feminising breast augmentation
masculinising chest reconstruction
hysterectomy (removal of the uterus)
salpingo-oophorectomy (removal of ovaries and fallopian tubes)
orchidectomy (removal of testicles)
facial feminisation
laryngeal shave (reducing the size of the Adam’s apple).
And the government…who voted to allow people to, on a whim, change the sex on their birth certificate even though 'changing sex', in human beings is a scientific impossibility? You seriously think the disparate bunch of numpties who warm the Seats can be trusted with such important decisions? These are the people who persist in confusing sex with gender.
And the data? Where is the data? Its very complicated…but you'd hope that when it came to giving pre- teens drugs with unknown long term side effects the precautionary principle would prevail. First do no harm and all that.
One that we can thank the Labour party for increasing:
We’re helping trans people to access the care they need. To help reduce wait times for gender affirming surgery, we lifted the cap on the number of publicly funded surgeries and increased funding for the service, supporting the mental health of our trans whānau.
Link to Labour bragging: https://www.labour.org.nz/rainbow
Some questions:
Can a female request breast augmentation if she identifies as female – or is that considered cosmetic surgery and not covered? What about if she identifies as non-binary? Is it possible to access breast augmentation then? Or is it only available to males? In which case, isn't that discriminatory?
How has it been determined that the mental wellbeing of breast cancer patients who have asked for both breasts to be removed instead of one, is considered non-medically justified, but the removal of two healthy breasts is considered necessary?
How are medical interventions for young people that will reduce sexual sensation, intimacy and/or enjoyment, may impact on maturity and physiological changes that are of benefit, and will sterilise many considered a suitable treatment for an apparently non-medical problem?
What is the difference between a culture that promotes and implements surgeries such as those on offer, and a culture that still performs FGM? One is performed in a pristine surgery, but the effects are the same.
As the implications sink in, maybe there'll be a huge public backlash over this legislation, even greater than that given form by the anti-mandate protesters & assorted hangers-on? Time these uppity self-important pollies and experts got a dose of reality – hang 'em high!!
That bigotry would still be with us, if at the time, those suggested law reforms you mention were put to a public referendum.
You could well be correct Blade, which demonstrates the value of progressive leadership/legislation. Those proclaiming the 'evils' of such progressive changes in the lead-up to a public or parliamentary vote tend to get less traction over time as it becomes apparent that the evils have been overstated. Think the introduction of MMP (passed by a narrow margin), or the 'anti-smacking' legislation.
2009 New Zealand child discipline referendum Voter turnout was 56.1%. 87.4% of votes answered 'no'. The result of the referendum was non-binding and the New Zealand government did not change the law in response to the outcome.
Whereas if the predictions of negative outcomes turn out to be accurate, then legislation can usually be ammended/repealed in accordance with popular opinion.
And, when progressive proposals fail to get the public nod, as in the case of the recent referendum on cannabis, the beauty of our political system is that (in the fullness of time) campaigners and/or our politicians can have another go.
For anyone interesting in looking for examples of discussion, and the circular nature of arguments all you have to do is look at the Hansard in the second reading.
I guess it's not really an issue these days for people who have stable living situations.
'New Zealand needs to stop talking about a housing crisis and accept the situation is catastrophic, the Salvation Army says.'
' “Housing is pivotal to other social issues. If we can’t get warm, safe, affordable housing for Kiwis it’s going to impact on other social issues we’re seeing now and going to see more of as the Covid tail drags on.”
Don't bother Solkta, if people don't understand the difference between a criminal case and a civil case in the US, they are unlikely to know what is meant by a settlement.
I'm well aware of what is what, Aom. However, when you make a statement such as Tony Veitch did; since deleted by Weka, I believe that has to be proven in criminal court of law, otherwise you open yourself up to legal action.
An out of court settlement doesn't necessarily mean an admission of guilt.
I've deleted the half sentence. I don't have time to sort out other people's mistakes or check what’s legal or not, the onus is on the commenter to get it right. Next time, put in a link and then it's easy to fact check, better yet check yourself. This isn't FB, for casual, slanderous comments. Another sentence and you could have made a clear political argument.
With the Queen's Platinum Jubilee celebrations will begin on Thursday, June 2, 2022, and through June 5th, that would be a great time to start to strip the monarchy right back, resign as Queen and hand over to Prince Charles.
Charles can then pull the whole royal family farce back to a minimum, and chuck out the taxpayer entitlements for all but those children directly in line of succession.
Chuck out the industry of pervert Dukes, star-fucking low-rent z-grade actors, horse-worshippers, contitutional nobodies, and the entire swirling shit-constellation of psychobabble tv and film industries.
Even the Maori Party wants them gone. Hopefully we give them all the heave in time for our bicentennary in 18 years.
How would the treaty negotiations go on if we became a republic, would they have to end because the Crown is no longer, would the treaty have to be renegotiated with the government, would there still be a legally binding treaty?
Not sure how it's worked with every peaceful independence transition, but generally it seems to be a bit like buying a company: the new structure (parliament, president, Grand Moff, whatevs) assumes the rights and responsibilities of the previous owner.
If I've got a lease, and the building owner changes without nixing the lease, I just call them about the broken washing machine, not the old owner.
Since your current gig has made you a staunch ally of the working classes, maybe your next stint could be in Te Puni Kōkiri? We could turn you into a full-spectrum wokish warrior, one govt department at a time…
"The Chiefs assembled including Chiefs not present at the assembly hereby cede absolutely to the Queen of England for ever the Government of all of their lands"
"Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand, and to the respective families and individuals thereof, the full, exclusive, and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates, Forests, Fisheries, and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess, so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession; but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the Individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of Pre-emption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate, at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective Proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf".
Not isn't. It's a living, vital treaty. Live it, PR. Your conservative, regressive views are blocking the natural flow between cultures, ideologies and concepts.
Stop dragging the chain.
Let the lively, the young, the energised, attend to these matters.
Its always a bit funny explaining this to people overseas. Despite the haka appearing quite threatening and aggressive, and being used as a challenge before a sporting contest, its actually the story of somebody hiding from his pursuers in a kumara pit.
"“You are not a sex offender. You have offended in a sexual way, but you are not a sex offender,” she said."
That statement doesn't even require comment to critique, it is perfectly circular.
'She said she did not think the man was a risk to the public.'
Well, she could be right. He really has only shown himself to be a risk for an inebriated 17 year old woman, walking home in the dark. How many of those are there?
A man's behaviour is protected from further censure because of the impact it would have on his wife. If only all non sexual offenders could boast the same, we would reduce the need for rehabilitation.
I said when the last political poll was taken that people would still be happy and in a holiday mood. But as the year ground on things would change. Well, the year hasn’t ground on very far and already a new poll is showing a shift in all directions.
Quote:
”The poll also found that an upswing in the overall national mood experienced over summer had dropped away”.
Luxon is starting to look competitive in much the same way Brash was over the months immediately following his Orewa speech … It'll be interesting to see if the trend is confirmed by the TV Polls.
Today on STUFF it was confirmed that Destiny Church had been removed from the register of Charities.
A HUGE THANKYOU TO ALL THOSE WHO SIGNED THE PETITION.
On Tuesday, February 15, the Charities Services changed the listings for Destiny Church Auckland Trust, Destiny Church Taranaki, Destiny International Trust and Te Hahi o Ngā Matamua Holdings Limited.
Their removal from the register comes two months after Charities Services revealed it launched an “initial inquiry” into the charities, having received 28 complaints about Destiny Church in the space of a few months."
Stuff story here. Unfortunately seems they are deregistered due to failure to file annual returns, rather than their “uncharitable” vile beliefs and practices. In my view religions generally should be ineligible, unless they are doing some specific and material community work.
But good news! His bank account is something the Eftpostle will really care about.
1160 new cases today. And 9 people in intensive care (after being at zero the last few days) – presumably most with Omicron? It won't be mild for all, unfortunately.
It would be good to have data on the percentage of Omicron for positive and hospital cases, as well as age demographics for each variant for vaccination status as we are vaccinating children.
It would also be good if they clarified if those in intensive care with the virus are there because of the virus. This is unclear from the article:
"There are 56 people in hospital with the coronavirus, with nine in intensive care. The average age of the current hospitalisations is 65."
I think it may have been corrected on RNZ, because my comment above included the quote: “There are 56 people in hospital with the coronavirus, with nine in intensive care. The average age of the current hospitalisations is 65.”
As I am a inveterate cut-and-paster when quoting, it looks like they may have corrected.
I've put this here to try and avoid cheap, glib covidesque quips.
There is a big of concern for the fear of the health system being overwhelmed.
I would suggest, in pockets around the country, it already is.
A couple of nights ago, a Stat 2 patient with cardiac issues was put in the ED, on a chair because the ED was full, chocka. The Ed was full because the hospital was full.
He sat on the chair for an hour and a half until he inevitably arrested.
This then added to the stress of an understaffed, overworked nursing crew, with a VERY junior skillmix who were already unable to advocate for their patients and providing the bear basics to the sick and needy.
Every pay round this issue comes up and the DHBs want a new metric, a new system to evaluate staffing needs. (I can't recall the name of the latest as my health professional isn't home ATM.)
It was suggested that perhaps the Board gets fined each time the hospital reaches a certain crisis point. Since they are the neo-liberal governance part of the system, bearing a financial penalty may motivate them. Have no fear, those at the coal face have personal consequences every shift this happens and really dire ones when there is a death or very bad outcome.
Hospitals have been stretched to the limit for years – I remember being hospitalised for a bad infection and needing to have IV antibiotics – after several hours I ended up in the heart ward…literally the only bed that was available in Auckland Hospital and this was in the last NACT governments era.
The hospital understaffing is largely due to central government, rather than the boards. The boards end up creating new systems to manage the number of towels, but that doesn't hire 50 more nurses or a registrar. It just shows effort when the minister sends another letter about the dhb "debt".
But I like the idea – if the fines are nixed and the minister is held accountable. Make it home D. A day for every time a crisis level is hit during their tenure as minister. That'll get them begging more money out of their cabinet colleagues.
Ironically, I have just found out, the Safe Staffing Review Report of the Care Capacity Demand Management (CCDM) Programme is being released tomorrow arvo.
There is a feeling of SSDD. Whatever the results I am sure it will lack teeth and accountability for those at senior management or governance levels.
Edit, TBF, this isn’t the same all through the country, but it is particularly bad here in Mid Central.
2 observations: 1 – a) Luxon reading from a prepared list of questions, not able to think on his feet and b) Simon Bridges able to extemporise as he goes along. Not as mentally agile as his shadow Finance Minister, or just inexperienced?
2 – Jacinda wiped the floor of Luxon, and so did Robertson of Bridges. No contest really!
Bridges was National's best opposition leader at Question Time, his experience as a prosecutor came through, and – as you point out – he could pick up on a previous answer and think on his feet. (Bridges' problem was not in Parliament but the other areas, like being grumpy on TV).
As for Luxon, I get the impression Ardern enjoys squashing him, she's more feisty these days. Her body language says "you think you're such a big shot CEO, let's see what you got".
Always makes me laugh when people say she's just hugs and smiles. If they can't see the steel they really should watch Question Time.
Agreed. The Prime Minister is in command of her material, her debating skills are so apparent and the opoosition have no reply to the rejoinders that they in government did little or even nothing to develop health, education, housing.
Today, Finance Minister Robertson informed the House in Question Time that the previous National government for two years spent nothing at all on new Health expenditure!
Who is going to tell the NZ Herald that Julie-Anne Genter hasn't been a minister for over a year, and Richard Prebble is now… a senile old man?
Update: It looks like they've pulled the story online (hence no link) but the opinion piece where Prebble spends an entire column attacking Julie-Anne Genter as the "associate transport minister" for reducing speed limits it is still in the print edition.
sorry, but if he can't give a clue as to what he is on about in the first thirty secs I'm struggling to know why I should spend time listening to the polemic of a RW youtuber.
‘With no need for court orders, banks can freeze personal accounts of anyone linked with the protests.’
‘Critics have noted that the prime minister voiced support for farmers in India who blocked major highways to New Delhi for a year in 2021, saying at the time: “Canada will always be there to defend the right of peaceful protest.”
"Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has taken the unprecedented step of invoking the Emergencies Act to crack down on anti-vaccine mandate protests.
Mr Trudeau said the scope of the measures would be "time-limited", "reasonable and proportionate" and would not see the military deployed.
With no need for court orders, banks can freeze personal accounts of anyone linked with the protests."
Well, that will just confirm protestors fears about overreach. It looks like an intention to add fuel to the fire.
I always considered him a numpty, and not in a good way. Now I consider him a dangerous authoritarian.
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
April has been a quiet month at A Phuulish Fellow. I have had an exceptionally good reading month, and a decently productive writing month – for original fiction, anyway – but not much has caught my eye that suggested a blog article. It has been vaguely frustrating, to be honest. ...
A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
Hi,I spent about a year on Webworm reporting on an abusive megachurch called Arise, and it made me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.I don’t regret that reporting in 2022 and 2023 — I am proud of it — but it made me angry.Over three main stories ...
The new Victoria University Vice-Chancellor decided to have a forum at the university about free speech and academic freedom as it is obviously a topical issue, and the Government is looking at legislating some carrots or sticks for universities to uphold their obligations under the Education and Training Act. They ...
Do you remember when Melania Trump got caught out using a speech that sounded awfully like one Michelle Obama had given? Uncannily so.Well it turns out that Abraham Lincoln is to Winston Peters as Michelle was to Melania. With the ANZAC speech Uncle Winston gave at Gallipoli having much in ...
She was born 25 years ago today in North Shore hospital. Her eyes were closed tightly shut, her mouth was silently moving. The whole theatre was all quiet intensity as they marked her a 2 on the APGAR test. A one-minute eternity later, she was an 8. The universe was ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is Antarctica gaining land ice? ...
Images of US students (and others) protesting and setting up tent cities on US university campuses have been broadcast world wide and clearly demonstrate the growing rifts in US society caused by US policy toward Israel and Israel’s prosecution of … Continue reading → ...
Barrie Saunders writes – Dear Paul As the new Minister of Media and Communications, you will be inundated with heaps of free advice and special pleading, all in the national interest of course. For what it’s worth here is my assessment: Traditional broadcasting free to air content through ...
Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its arguments for such a bold reform. ...
Peter Dunne writes – The great nineteenth British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, once observed that “the first essential for a Prime Minister is to be a good butcher.” When a later British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, sacked a third of his Cabinet in July 1962, in what became ...
Ele Ludemann writes – New Zealanders had the OECD’s second highest tax increase last year: New Zealanders faced the second-biggest tax raises in the developed world last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) says. The intergovernmental agency said the average change in personal income tax ...
We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Simon Clark. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). This year you will be lied to! Simon Clark helps prebunk some misleading statements you'll hear about climate. The video includes ...
It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commission’s 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
Buzz from the Beehive Two speeches delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters at Anzac Day ceremonies in Turkey are the only new posts on the government’s official website since the PM announced his Cabinet shake-up. In one of the speeches, Peters stated the obvious: we live in a troubled ...
1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
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Well done to Parliament for passing the ban on "conversion therapy". And credit where it's due, to those National and ACT MPs who had previously expressed misgivings but voted for it in the end. 122-8 is a stonking result.
Interviewed this morning on TVNZ's Breakfast (not online yet), Christopher Luxon made clear he voted for the ban (good) but then squirmed when asked about the 8 Nats who voted against the bill.
He claimed MPs in other parties opposed the bill too. The interviewer (McClean) did not challenge this assertion. He should have.
Great stuff.
http://norightturn.blogspot.com
Yes, we know who the Nat MPs are, their votes are on the record.
My point was that Luxon claimed there were other MPs who didn't vote against, but secretly were.
We can speculate, of course (a few Labour and ACT MPs could be possible). But it's a claim that should be backed up with evidence. Otherwise it's just a diversion smear on all MPs from all other parties.
Sorry, wasn't challenging the point.
Cool, I realize that.
Michael Woodhouse is the only one that is a bit surprising. The others are predictable conservatives (even though Reti is quite sensible on Covid and other matters).
"None of them bothered to speak to explain their hate – too ashamed, I guess"
It's not 'hate' that keeps me from your own self-congratulation, it's concern.
I think – as shown in other countries where similar legislation has been passed – that due to the vague wording, and lack of separation between same sex orientation and gender identity 'conversion' therapy, we will see a tendency toward the affirmation only model in NZ. A conversion therapy of its own, which also creates harm.
But call it 'hate' if that makes you feel better.
Actually Molly , it may be possible to apply this law as a protection against those transwomen who badger lesbians for sex using their fully functional "female" penises.
In effect these biological males attempt to convert lesbians from their natural sexual preferences
Geez francesca alls fair in love an war right ? You make it sound like there are hoards of these transgender males out harassing poor "natural " lesbians .Whats your actual experience ?
The BBC did a doco about it Weston .Not a lesbian , just recognise their right to same sex attraction without being vilified as bigots.
Stonewall (remember them, campaigning for homosexual rights in the UK in the 80's), has a CEO, Nancy Kelley that considers same sex orientation to be a form of societal prejudice.
The article itself includes quotes from a statement released by Stonewall chief executive Nancy Kelley, in which she says:
“If you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it’s worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.”
This is more explicit than previous statements. In the past Kelley has claimed that those who recognise the importance of biological sex are as morally reprehensible as those who hate Jewish people. It seems Kelley also believes homosexuality is akin to racism. Given this, one wonders on what basis Stonewall can claim to advocate for homosexuals?"
Yes. The organisation that successfully advocated the repeal of Section 28, now considers those with a same sex preference (and I assume opposite sex preference) possess those preferences because of "societal prejudice."
You can find many examples online on the coaching and grooming of (mainly lesbians) to accept males into their sexual partners pool.
Ah, conversion therapy. So glad it's been banned.
https://freespeech.buzzsprout.com/370355/9954982-special-report-interview-with-the-public-service-advisor-censored-for-using-the-term-male-bodied
You are possibly not going to listen to the podcast Weston. So just to sumarize a public servant was attending a training run by Inisde Outabout inclusivity at her workplace.
The public servant bravely and within context pointed out that her sister was lesbian and surely she shouldn't be expected to have a sex partner who was male bodied. The tutor said, we don't use that term now. The public servant then got a letter from the Deputy CE chastising her for using this term and saying the tutor and other employees found her use of the word male bodied offensive. So challenging the rights of lesbians to not to have sex with male bodied trans women, gets you a letter from your boss. Trans women must not be referred to as male bodied. Make of that what you will.
The ridiculous thing is it took a lot of bravery for the woman to stand up at her work meeting and say this and to assert her freedom of speech to her Boss
Hi ankor only just found your reply sorry .I did listen to the podcast golly dosnt sound like a very nice place to work for the particular public servant !orwelian is a fitting description .Have to confess i find all this stuff confusing , in the times ive been involved with lesbians there was just lesbians an gays an straights more or less and amongst the lesbians i know and count as friends theyve mostly settled down now and as far as i know are much less idiologically driven .In their time though they could scaresly have been thought of as reqiring protection and were very strong women in their own right heck one of them drove a tractor into town to get her groceries and on occasion fired shots over my head to let me know i was tresspassing { she mustve thought i was thinking of doing so cause i was walking on a private path at the time !}
Hi Weston, appreciate you took the time to listen to the podcast.
It is truly Orwelian. I have recently read 1984 in which the term newspeak was used whcih is exactly what is happening here.
Things have changed a lot over the last five or 10 years. How I see it is the universities are teaching young people gender ideology and if you don't accept it, it become very problematic. There have been many posts on this site about what is happening. If you are interested in finding out more about gender ideology let me know and I'll post some links.
All's fair in love and war? Let's make it plain then. Do you believe that lesbians should date male bodied people despite being only attracted to female bodies?
Sorry for the delay replying weka my reply tab only works about one time out of five ! Should is not a word i would use in this context and why would i agree with such a silly statement ?
Lesbianism wasnt invented yesterday weka and lesbians are just human beings after all subject to pretty much all the same relationship issues as we all are whether we are seeking long term relationships or a one night stand .
I queried francesca,s statement which suggested all these transgender males were harrassing lesbians , turns out she had whatched somthing produced by BBC .Are you saying i shoudnt have asked ?
Silver lining it would be. But I think unlikely.
As a non-conforming Asperger's teenager, I would have been a prime candidate for ROGD if I had the access to the internet that we have now. Discomfort with puberty and a sense of not being naturally feminine, and inquisitive for answers would have me prepped and ready for gender ideology. I don't honestly know what choice I would have made.
However, I do know that the prevalence of autistic, and non-conforming children in the transgender community deserves some scrutiny and research. We may do irreparable harm to many, if the conversion therapy bill results in 'affirmation only' models of therapy and counselling. There is some indication that that is already occurring in NZ.
The contradiction of providing medical interventions for a condition no longer considered medical is without precedent as far as I know.
It strikes me that it is the Gender Critical that really don't have a problem with self expression and identity exploration. This has been ignored when discussing this issue that perpetuates gender stereotypes. It is also quite fascinating to see recent criticisms of Gender Critical Feminists being the ones to perpetuate gender stereotypes. I think this is indicative of a movement that avoids scrutiny and casts aspersions. We will see how they get on.
We also know that while the promotion and celebration is public and uplifting, the isolation and lack of support for detransitioners is invisible. This has an effect on both transition and detransition.
https://youtu.be/T9UYDyqkH2E
As long as it is clearly worded only "sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression" it seems an odd thing to vote against.
Even if they are religious.
Self-correction: 112 votes for, not 122.
Badly done to Parliament for passing the badly worded piece of legislation that relied on people's abhorrence of gay conversion therapy to avoid scrutiny.
Despite not showing evidence of this particular practice being a concern in present-day New Zealand, this practice was deemed so harmful that the passing of this legislation (along with others) was considered a necessity. Despite submissions against, and requests for clarity. Despite concerns that it is not specified that effective therapy may result in a resolution of gender dysphoria. Despite the fact that this legislation in other countries had resulted in the 'affirmation only' model being practiced, a conversion therapy of its own, and so, with consequent harms. Despite the now familiar practice of including gender identity in a discussion about sexual orientation, and conflating the two.
Oh, the bigots must of course be ignored.
Strangely enough, the bigoted Equality and Human Rights Commission in the UK, recently issued a statement regarding very similar legislation for the Scottish government:
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/consultation-response-banning-conversion-therapy-26-january-2022.docx
Same bigoted areas of concern. Oh, well.
Remember this day years hence, when you wonder how much harm resulted from such good intentions, when all you were trying to do was be kind.
The consultation document contains no clear definition of …
Of course not. Nothing can be clearly defined anymore. Anything means whatever the individual wants it to mean.
Only a bigot expects actual definition. Actual clarity of meaning. Actual reality. Actual science. Actual critical thinking and perhaps a passing thought about long term (unintended) adverse effects.
We need to get with the program Molly…get on board that feels good train…
Grim day indeed.
(I think I'll wait for the grown up's train, .)
https://youtu.be/x1rEZ9TzD34?t=12
With the passage of this bill and the Births Deaths and Marriage Bill, wasn't your essential female nature supposed to have evaporated along with your actual existence by now?
Where's a parliamentary review when you need one?
No Ad , just our sex based right to have privacy and segregation from male bodies once in a while
Strangely enough Ad. Despite the slogans, and words on a piece of paper passed by parliament, I do still know what it is to be a woman, and the consequences of that reality.
"With the passage of this bill and the Births Deaths and Marriage Bill, wasn't your essential female nature supposed to have evaporated along with your actual existence by now?"
You've made this comment in various ways a couple of times now. It seems to be a projection of the external validation needed by some who claim they are being denied the right to exist. That's not me.
I still have objections to the appropriation of words and language that accurately describe being a woman or female. But existence is not dependent on other's misuse of those terms.
Don’t worry. You’ve earned your ticket …get on board.
Thank you Molly for articulating why some of us have concerns with this bill.
Currently children are being taught at school at a young age that it is possible to be born in the wrong body (no it isn't) and that there are many genders (upwards of 70 are quoted). Many kids are gender non conforming. A close relative of mine was and she grew up to be gay, this is what the research supports. She had the freedom to be a tom boy and eventually realized she was gay, in her late teens.
Now days these kids are being encourged to think they are trans. This is the beginning to social and medical transition. These kids are being given puberty blockers and cross sex hormones and the changes these cause to their bodies can not be rolled back to easily. So young women are being left with male sound voices, facial hair and Adams Apples (in some cases). So are using breast binders and some are having double masectomies and hysterectomies by the age of 19 years. this kids are left with irreversible damage. There are currently 25.000 such detransitioners on Reddit.
The Bill will mean any parent or health professional that tries to stop the path of medical transition could be considered offering a conversion practice. Rainbow Youth and their allies only want affirmation therapy for these vulnerable teans who are not old enough to consent to life altering surgery.
If you read Counting Ourselves, it is very clear that the transgender people in this survey felt they experienced conversion practice from a range of health professionals.
There is very little evidence that health professionals use what is usually considered converstion practices. Certainly no ethical ones do. So the people in this survey I think consider anything other that affirmation and confirmation of the gender identity as conversion therapy.
This is why this bill is so problematic.
"The Bill will mean any parent or health professional that tries to stop the path of medical transition could be considered offering a conversion practice. "
I hope that is not the case. What is true, is that the legislation allows for interpretation where this may result. No clarification edits were made before passing.
The Counting Ourselves publication is worth a critical read. The self validation of the survey takers, has no standard by which to judge credibility or bias.
The dearth of robust data is commonplace on this issue, and its many impacts.
''The interviewer (McClean) did not challenge this assertion. He should have.''
I agree, although I doubt National MPs who voted against the bill were all religious or anti gay.
''Luxon claimed MPs in other parties opposed the bill too .''
I would say that's correct, given the high percentage of Maori and Island MPs in the Labour Party. No doubt walking past the political corpse of Louisa Wall cleared the sinuses and focused the mind when it came time to vote.
Strange when you think Faʻafafines are a part of Polynesian life.
Thanks observer – great to see such a large majority of MPs showing some progressive common sense.
Not as big a deal as voting rights for women (20 ayes, 18 nays), homosexual law reform (49 ayes, 44 nays), or even civil unions and same-sex marriage legislation (77 ayes, 44 nays), but still well worth celebrating as another nail in the coffin of bigotry, imho.
"…but nevertheless worth celebrating as another nail in the coffin of bigotry, imho."
Such nuance, detail and understanding.
And yet, it could have been excellent legislation (although probably still unnecessary) if they had just addressed the concerns put forward by those 'bigots'. What was the prevalence of conversion therapy in NZ in 2021? Is there a difference between gay conversion therapy, and appropriate therapy for gender dysphoria that explores each individual's needs, and may result in a reconciliation between someone's biological sex and their gender identity? How do we ensure that the 'affirmation only' model for gender identity is not the result for therapists, counsellors, which in itself can be shown to be a type of conversion therapy?
But at least we did have it explained particularly ambiguously, by the Minister. (Apologies for being unable to find the sound recording where he does exceptionally well at accurately portraying the undefined nature of what exactly is being converted, and how that will be determined. It was a masterclass in bumbling obfuscation) But only 'bigots' are concerned on those points.
Robust discussion…well, it was good while it lasted.
Molly, I was replying to observer @1; you were the first person (@1.5) to introduce "bigots" and "bigoted" into this "robust discussion." I can't help feeling differently to you about this legislation, nor (imho) will any amount of robust discussion shift our respective views. Let’s agree to disagree.
Talk about a continuation of redirect from relevant content.
I have no concern with being called a 'bigot' or 'transphobic' on this issue. I have seen how and when this is deployed, and have no problem being included with those who have tried to raise concerns about the failure of such legislation to define terms and address unintended impacts and have been labelled in such a way.
I have also been told that my understanding of the words 'woman' and 'female' are exclusionary. Well, the misuse and appropriation of language is a deliberate feature here. The fact that 'bigot' is used nonsensically is par for the course.
"What was the prevalence of conversion therapy in NZ in 2021? Is there a difference between gay conversion therapy, and appropriate therapy for gender dysphoria that explores each individual's needs, and may result in a reconciliation between someone's biological sex and their gender identity? How do we ensure that the 'affirmation only' model for gender identity is not the result for therapists, counsellors, which in itself can be shown to be a type of conversion therapy?"
Any thoughts on the above? Or on the concerns raised by the EHRC on similar points in the Conversion Therapy Bill in the Scottish government?
No?
Well, we may disagree, but I contend that our disagreement comes from a complete failure on your part to do investigation and look deeper.
My evidence for this is your failure to even address those concerns listed above, and redirect to the most mundane of assumptions.
We most certainly do disagree, and I'm trying not to be disagreeable about that. Since my reply @1.7 to observer seems to have riled you so, and since you have judged my considered and deeply held views to derive from a complete failure on my part, that leaves me nowhere to go except to express my genuine disappointment.
Once again, failure to address concerns,
Yes, I made comment on your direct comment to observer, because I will not stand quietly by watching the complacency pass without comment.
The issues of concern are clearly stated, and always, always avoided.
Your disappointment is a manipulation, rather than engagement. I don't respond to such with capitulation, perhaps it works with you.
My disappointment is genuine – "manipulation" is a misperception.
"Complacency", "failure" "failure" "failure", "manipulation" – no thanks.
None of my comments in this thread were made to elicit "capitulation" – again that's a misperception, imho. I don't need anyone's capitulation. As observer observed @1: "122-8 is a stonking result."
I respond to you in the hope that a discussion will ensue, about the concerns raised.
I don't use my emotive reaction to your comments as points worthy of expression. I consider it manipulation, I avoid the same when parenting. My comments to you are not unique in that regard.
I, however, persist in asking for discussion on the points raised.
But I understand the avoidance. There have been repeated examples of this on this topic. What is one more?
You and others have raised concerns. Some of these concerns I share to a greater or lesser extent. I have my own concerns. We have discussed this before, and in some of my comments I've provided a small amount of personal information as to where I'm coming from, but generally it seems that the more we correspond, the more heated the discussion becomes (like now), such that there is nothing to be gained by continuing – we disagree.
On balance, I support the legislation that has just been voted into law (see @1 and @1.7). The reasons underpinning my support relate mostly to personal experiences that I won't detail on this blog. If it turns out that the outcomes of that legislation are, on balance, negative for NZers, then trust me that I won't be part of a "see no evil, hear no evil" whitewash to cover up those negative outcomes.
@Drowsy M. Kram
"You and others have raised concerns. Some of these concerns I share to a greater or lesser extent. I have my own concerns. We have discussed this before, and in some of my comments I've provided a small amount of personal information as to where I'm coming from, but generally it seems that the more we correspond, the more heated the discussion becomes (like now), such that there is nothing to be gained by continuing – we disagree."
We have indeed discussed this before, and looking back on your link it is more of the same. No real addressing of content, just reiteration of perspective and feelings.
This discussion might feel heated for you, but that is not a view shared by me. I'm persistent in asking for a discussion of the issues, and not moved from this by your personal feelings.
"On balance, I support the legislation that has just been voted into law (see @1 and @1.7). The reasons underpinning my support relate in large part to personal experiences that I won't detail on this blog."
That's convenient. A possibility of actual discussion subverted once again.
"If it turns out that the outcomes of that legislation are, on balance, negative for NZers, then trust me that I won't be part of a "see no evil, hear no evil" whitewash to cover up those negative outcomes."
Yes, using a considered and precautionary approach that prevents harm occurring is such an outdated concept. I'm less reassured than you that any consequent harms for individuals won't have to number in the thousands before it gets addressed.
You have spent a considerable amount of time and words to contribute neither critique or justification.
Then given yourself permission to not provide any.
This is a pattern.
"Convenient" is your word. It wasn't, isn’t, and your concerns are moving me less and less with every comment – nonetheless I will continue to share some of them. Carry on.
@Drowsy M. Kram
I see you have participated in some discussion below with Rosemary.
I didn't aim to 'move' you with my concerns, I hoped to discuss them, and perhaps be persuaded that they were unwarranted. I'll have to go elsewhere for that as you say your points on this are unable to be articulated on this blog.
Well done, for at least making a start down below.
I'll concede that Rosemary has a more successful approach to drawing you out, and will read with interest what transpires.
Molly, not interested in persuading you that your concerns are unwarranted – on the contrary, I think that some are warranted, to various degrees. We each have views and concerns that are informed by personal experiences and other information; my personal experiences are the single most important reason that I'm pleased this legislation has been passed, and (in this particular instance) I can't help how I feel.
Any and all negative outcomes will be regrettable, and if negative outcomes are actually as numerous and/or severe as some believe then NZ's legislation may be modified or repealed. Time will tell.
@Drowsy M. Kram
"Molly, not interested in persuading you that your concerns are unwarranted – on the contrary, I think that some are warranted, to various degrees. We each have views and concerns that are informed by personal experiences and other information; my personal experiences are the single most important reason that I'm pleased this legislation has been passed, and (in this particular instance) I can't help how I feel."
Fair enough. But why engage at all if you are not prepared to discuss another perspective? I'm willing to have my ideas and perspectives challenged and be informed, but to do that I first have to articulate them and expose them for critique.
"…my personal experiences are the single most important reason that I'm pleased this legislation has been passed,…"
Once again, fair enough. But if you are unwilling to give that perspective, then don't engage.
My pseudonym comes from the Molly Whuppy story that used to be on Sunday mornings on 1ZB, and the phrase that leaps to mind is "Oh, if you could see what I see….". Said from inside a sack that was pitch dark.
Women on TS talking on various aspects of the legislation impacts have revealed sustained familial sexual abuse, personal experience of sexual attacks and other personal experiences not because they enjoy the reveal of past trauma, but in an effort to bring understanding.
Coy referrals to personal experiences, to my mind, is a dishonest method of engagement. Either keep those experiences and thoughts private, and enter the discussion regardless, or don't enter it at all. If you don't recognise this approach as manipulative in any way, then on this, we disagree.
The perspective you refer to – but don't articulate – may be of immense value in improving the discussion. But we will never know.
I see you have redirected once again on Rosemary's thread.
No more to say on how well you have done there.
Thanks Molly, that's good advice. I've avoided replying to your comments for a few months now, and my attempt (@1.7.1.1) to disengage was a momentary lapse on my part. Won't happen again.
@Drowsy M. Kram
Since you contribute nothing of substance, that's probably for the best.
Spend that energy talking with others about how mean some people on TS are, expecting discourse rather than taking note of your private feelings.
….deeply held views… Can I assume that you do truly believe that the appropriate way to manage gender dysphoria is with lifelong powerful drugs and surgery to amputate or modify healthy body parts?
And that talking therapies that help a (usually quite young) person to accept the body they are born with and learn that it is perfectly ok to have a different gender is wrong and evil and should be criminalized?
Asking for a friend.
Manipulation 'cuts' both ways, imho. Did you by any chance help to write the question for the 2009 NZ child discipline referendum?
Asking for a friend
My immediate answers to your very even-handed questions were going to be 'Never', and 'Of course not', but, on reflection, 'Case by case' for Q.1, and for Q.2 'It should be an individual's (even if quite young) right to have an input into decisions about what 'therapies' they are subjected to.'
It's appropriate for our government and/or health services to determine what therapies are medically acceptible/justifiable, and those determinations should be based on data relating to treatment outcomes. Those who are of the view that it never hurts to 'talk' must have led charmed lives indeed.
See. That wasn't that difficult was it? This is almost a discussion.
It's appropriate for our government and/or health services to determine what therapies are medically acceptible/justifiable,
Hmmm…do you really expect me, of Misery/Mystery/Miserly of Health fame, to accept that? Of course the Ministry is keeping up with the trend… but clearly medical science left the building when this Advisory was written, because some fool seems to think that sex is "assigned" at birth rather than being a biological fact that was observed and noted by a health professional.
And while this is a very wordy Advisory…it details no therapy other than ….
Gender affirming health care, including surgical procedures such as those listed below, are the responsibility of DHBs. Patients seeking these procedures should be referred to their local DHB provider:
And the government…who voted to allow people to, on a whim, change the sex on their birth certificate even though 'changing sex', in human beings is a scientific impossibility? You seriously think the disparate bunch of numpties who warm the Seats can be trusted with such important decisions? These are the people who persist in confusing sex with gender.
And the data? Where is the data? Its very complicated…but you'd hope that when it came to giving pre- teens drugs with unknown long term side effects the precautionary principle would prevail. First do no harm and all that.
Yes, the Ministry have a wonderful surgical and budget capacity for treating a non-medical condition with… medical interventions.
One that we can thank the Labour party for increasing:
We’re helping trans people to access the care they need. To help reduce wait times for gender affirming surgery, we lifted the cap on the number of publicly funded surgeries and increased funding for the service, supporting the mental health of our trans whānau.
Link to Labour bragging:
https://www.labour.org.nz/rainbow
Some questions:
Can a female request breast augmentation if she identifies as female – or is that considered cosmetic surgery and not covered? What about if she identifies as non-binary? Is it possible to access breast augmentation then? Or is it only available to males? In which case, isn't that discriminatory?
How has it been determined that the mental wellbeing of breast cancer patients who have asked for both breasts to be removed instead of one, is considered non-medically justified, but the removal of two healthy breasts is considered necessary?
How are medical interventions for young people that will reduce sexual sensation, intimacy and/or enjoyment, may impact on maturity and physiological changes that are of benefit, and will sterilise many considered a suitable treatment for an apparently non-medical problem?
What is the difference between a culture that promotes and implements surgeries such as those on offer, and a culture that still performs FGM? One is performed in a pristine surgery, but the effects are the same.
As the implications sink in, maybe there'll be a huge public backlash over this legislation, even greater than that given form by the anti-mandate protesters & assorted hangers-on? Time these uppity self-important pollies and experts got a dose of reality – hang 'em high!!
You're not the boss of me now… Gawd save us.
That bigotry would still be with us, if at the time, those suggested law reforms you mention were put to a public referendum.
But as this Labour government is showing with Three Waters and handling the protesters -why let democracy stand in the way of a good thing?
You could well be correct Blade, which demonstrates the value of progressive leadership/legislation. Those proclaiming the 'evils' of such progressive changes in the lead-up to a public or parliamentary vote tend to get less traction over time as it becomes apparent that the evils have been overstated. Think the introduction of MMP (passed by a narrow margin), or the 'anti-smacking' legislation.
Whereas if the predictions of negative outcomes turn out to be accurate, then legislation can usually be ammended/repealed in accordance with popular opinion.
And, when progressive proposals fail to get the public nod, as in the case of the recent referendum on cannabis, the beauty of our political system is that (in the fullness of time) campaigners and/or our politicians can have another go.
Bills should be discussed on their own merit, not conflated with past legislattion to avoid scrutiny.
We are falling into a pattern of false equivalence very easily here. We can do better.
We should do better.
For anyone interesting in looking for examples of discussion, and the circular nature of arguments all you have to do is look at the Hansard in the second reading.
yeah, good to see.
I guess it's not really an issue these days for people who have stable living situations.
'New Zealand needs to stop talking about a housing crisis and accept the situation is catastrophic, the Salvation Army says.'
' “Housing is pivotal to other social issues. If we can’t get warm, safe, affordable housing for Kiwis it’s going to impact on other social issues we’re seeing now and going to see more of as the Covid tail drags on.”
Salvation Army: It's a housing catastrophe, not crisis | Stuff.co.nz
From the farcical (the Wellington protest) to the irrelevant:
Andrew Windsor settles out of court (for an undisclosed sum) with the girl [deleted]
All in all, quite an expensive night out.
Best not to open this blog up to a defamation lawsuit Tony.
I must have missed the court case, tell me more?
For someone who reads a lot you sure miss a lot.
I'm listening. Fill me with your wisdom. Start at the part where Andrew has been found guilty in a court of law.
Yeh nah, if you want to know what is going on then off you go.
Next time before you troll, engage your brain.
Are you still here? don't you have reading to do?
both of you stop it, now.
Don't bother Solkta, if people don't understand the difference between a criminal case and a civil case in the US, they are unlikely to know what is meant by a settlement.
I'm well aware of what is what, Aom. However, when you make a statement such as Tony Veitch did; since deleted by Weka, I believe that has to be proven in criminal court of law, otherwise you open yourself up to legal action.
An out of court settlement doesn't necessarily mean an admission of guilt.
Yes, I agree. Delete the word 'molested' and substitute the word 'knew.'
I've deleted the half sentence. I don't have time to sort out other people's mistakes or check what’s legal or not, the onus is on the commenter to get it right. Next time, put in a link and then it's easy to fact check, better yet check yourself. This isn't FB, for casual, slanderous comments. Another sentence and you could have made a clear political argument.
Sometimes it's unfair to demand a simple "Yes/No" answer. There are nuances, variables, unknowns.
But sometimes there aren't any. Sometimes it's really, really easy. Do you agree: Yes, or No?
Luxon couldn't handle it.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300518896/christopher-luxon-cant-say-whether-or-not-national-supports-minimum-wage-boost
With the Queen's Platinum Jubilee celebrations will begin on Thursday, June 2, 2022, and through June 5th, that would be a great time to start to strip the monarchy right back, resign as Queen and hand over to Prince Charles.
Charles can then pull the whole royal family farce back to a minimum, and chuck out the taxpayer entitlements for all but those children directly in line of succession.
Chuck out the industry of pervert Dukes, star-fucking low-rent z-grade actors, horse-worshippers, contitutional nobodies, and the entire swirling shit-constellation of psychobabble tv and film industries.
Even the Maori Party wants them gone. Hopefully we give them all the heave in time for our bicentennary in 18 years.
How would the treaty negotiations go on if we became a republic, would they have to end because the Crown is no longer, would the treaty have to be renegotiated with the government, would there still be a legally binding treaty?
Not sure how it's worked with every peaceful independence transition, but generally it seems to be a bit like buying a company: the new structure (parliament, president, Grand Moff, whatevs) assumes the rights and responsibilities of the previous owner.
If I've got a lease, and the building owner changes without nixing the lease, I just call them about the broken washing machine, not the old owner.
Thats a shame.
This could have been a chance to renegotiate the treaty, have one written that both parties agree on, that is updated for the world we live in today
To fix it
I doubt Māori will cede their sovereignty this time, either.
I doubt lawyers and elites would, willingly, give up gravy trains
Weird you link that with sovereignty.
Since your current gig has made you a staunch ally of the working classes, maybe your next stint could be in Te Puni Kōkiri? We could turn you into a full-spectrum wokish warrior, one govt department at a time…
I could do with a massive, bloated, unearned pay rise
couldn't we all
"The Chiefs assembled including Chiefs not present at the assembly hereby cede absolutely to the Queen of England for ever the Government of all of their lands"
"Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand, and to the respective families and individuals thereof, the full, exclusive, and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates, Forests, Fisheries, and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess, so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession; but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the Individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of Pre-emption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate, at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective Proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf".
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-NgaTrea-t1-g1-t1.html
It's not broken.
Yes it is.
We need one treaty that the government and the tribes can agree on so we can then we forward rather than always looking backwards and falling over
NZ becoming a republic would be the perfect time to do it
Not isn't. It's a living, vital treaty. Live it, PR. Your conservative, regressive views are blocking the natural flow between cultures, ideologies and concepts.
Stop dragging the chain.
Let the lively, the young, the energised, attend to these matters.
Energised and lively.
https://twitter.com/RadioGenova/status/1492776449895546885
Te Rauparaha's haka, right?
Its always a bit funny explaining this to people overseas. Despite the haka appearing quite threatening and aggressive, and being used as a challenge before a sporting contest, its actually the story of somebody hiding from his pursuers in a kumara pit.
Its over 180 years old and we still haven't got it right.
You keep looking backwards when moving forward you fall over.
Lets have a new treaty, in one language, that everyone signs at the same time, that all tribes sign, that everyone agrres on.
Lets move and look forward, together.
The Past Didn't Go Anywhere
Not bad
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/127789940/teenager-indecently-assaulted-by-taxi-driver-driving-her-home
'Judge Farish said she did not think a sentence of imprisonment was necessary to meet the principles and purposes of sentencing.'
“You are not a sex offender. You have offended in a sexual way, but you are not a sex offender,” she said.
'She said she did not think the man was a risk to the public.'
This is how you guarantee lower prison numbers
"“You are not a sex offender. You have offended in a sexual way, but you are not a sex offender,” she said."
That statement doesn't even require comment to critique, it is perfectly circular.
'She said she did not think the man was a risk to the public.'
Well, she could be right. He really has only shown himself to be a risk for an inebriated 17 year old woman, walking home in the dark. How many of those are there?
A man's behaviour is protected from further censure because of the impact it would have on his wife. If only all non sexual offenders could boast the same, we would reduce the need for rehabilitation.
"“You are not a sex offender. You have offended in a sexual way, but you are not a sex offender,” she said."
I read that and I thought I had read it wrong so I had another look and yep it still didn't make any sense
I said when the last political poll was taken that people would still be happy and in a holiday mood. But as the year ground on things would change. Well, the year hasn’t ground on very far and already a new poll is showing a shift in all directions.
Quote:
”The poll also found that an upswing in the overall national mood experienced over summer had dropped away”.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300518993/new-poll-national-surge-up-closer-to-labour-greens-and-act-down
.
Curia Poll for the Taxpayers Union:
[Fieldwork: Feb 1-10]
.
Party Support
Labour ……….. 42.3% (up 1.1)
Green …………. 6.3% (down 4.4)
Lab +Green … 48.6% (down 3.3)
.
National ……… 38.4% (up 5.4)
ACT ………………. 6.6% (down 4.9)
Nat + ACT …….. 45.0% (up 0.5)
.
Preferred PM
Ardern …………. 38.9% (up 1.4)
Luxon ………….. 28.5% (up 10.1)
.
Luxon is starting to look competitive in much the same way Brash was over the months immediately following his Orewa speech … It'll be interesting to see if the trend is confirmed by the TV Polls.
Thanks for posting the graphics. That always puts things in a more perspective frame.
Is this correct, I wonder?
"FEB 15, 2022 —
Today on STUFF it was confirmed that Destiny Church had been removed from the register of Charities.
A HUGE THANKYOU TO ALL THOSE WHO SIGNED THE PETITION.
On Tuesday, February 15, the Charities Services changed the listings for Destiny Church Auckland Trust, Destiny Church Taranaki, Destiny International Trust and Te Hahi o Ngā Matamua Holdings Limited.
Their removal from the register comes two months after Charities Services revealed it launched an “initial inquiry” into the charities, having received 28 complaints about Destiny Church in the space of a few months."
https://www.change.org/p/destiny-church-revoke-destiny-church-s-charitable-status/u/30212420
Stuff story here. Unfortunately seems they are deregistered due to failure to file annual returns, rather than their “uncharitable” vile beliefs and practices. In my view religions generally should be ineligible, unless they are doing some specific and material community work.
But good news! His bank account is something the Eftpostle will really care about.
Good news !
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/15/vaccination-reduces-chance-of-getting-long-covid-studies-find
1160 new cases today. And 9 people in intensive care (after being at zero the last few days) – presumably most with Omicron? It won't be mild for all, unfortunately.
I would love to know the % of the 9 in ICU who are unvaccinated.
It would be good to have data on the percentage of Omicron for positive and hospital cases, as well as age demographics for each variant for vaccination status as we are vaccinating children.
It would also be good if they clarified if those in intensive care with the virus are there because of the virus. This is unclear from the article:
"There are 56 people in hospital with the coronavirus, with nine in intensive care. The average age of the current hospitalisations is 65."
MOH says there are non in ICU or HDU,
https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/news-items/more-two-million-boosters-given-1160-community-cases-56-hospital
Looks like a bullshit statement.
Same in the Herald:
"Forty people were in hospital with the virus – none in ICU or HUD."
For that point, same in the article originally linked:
"There are 56 people in hospital with the coronavirus, with none in intensive care. The average age of the current hospitalisations is 65."
I think it may have been a case of genuine misreading, ie. 'nine' instead of 'none', or a typo when commenting.
Nine – none!
Either I misread or RNZ mis-wrote and corrected now.
I withdraw the comment.
Good news no one is in ICU!
Good news indeed!
I think it may have been corrected on RNZ, because my comment above included the quote:
“There are 56 people in hospital with the coronavirus, with nine in intensive care. The average age of the current hospitalisations is 65.”
As I am a inveterate cut-and-paster when quoting, it looks like they may have corrected.
Thanks! Seems it wasn't my imagination (or dirty glasses).
If I am really interested in something to do with the Covid figures I often look at this set of data from MOH. It is at 16/2/22.
Since early days of Covid
https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-case-demographics
Current
https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-current-cases
Thanks. I have that bookmarked.
I've put this here to try and avoid cheap, glib covidesque quips.
There is a big of concern for the fear of the health system being overwhelmed.
I would suggest, in pockets around the country, it already is.
A couple of nights ago, a Stat 2 patient with cardiac issues was put in the ED, on a chair because the ED was full, chocka. The Ed was full because the hospital was full.
He sat on the chair for an hour and a half until he inevitably arrested.
This then added to the stress of an understaffed, overworked nursing crew, with a VERY junior skillmix who were already unable to advocate for their patients and providing the bear basics to the sick and needy.
Every pay round this issue comes up and the DHBs want a new metric, a new system to evaluate staffing needs. (I can't recall the name of the latest as my health professional isn't home ATM.)
It was suggested that perhaps the Board gets fined each time the hospital reaches a certain crisis point. Since they are the neo-liberal governance part of the system, bearing a financial penalty may motivate them. Have no fear, those at the coal face have personal consequences every shift this happens and really dire ones when there is a death or very bad outcome.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/456765/patients-with-mental-health-needs-dhb-blames-poor-rating-on-difficulty-of-filling-liaison-role
Hospitals have been stretched to the limit for years – I remember being hospitalised for a bad infection and needing to have IV antibiotics – after several hours I ended up in the heart ward…literally the only bed that was available in Auckland Hospital and this was in the last NACT governments era.
Yep, I suppose I am talking about systemic failures.
Any surplus in a budget is a shameful state of affairs.
We have the money but lack the will.
The hospital understaffing is largely due to central government, rather than the boards. The boards end up creating new systems to manage the number of towels, but that doesn't hire 50 more nurses or a registrar. It just shows effort when the minister sends another letter about the dhb "debt".
But I like the idea – if the fines are nixed and the minister is held accountable. Make it home D. A day for every time a crisis level is hit during their tenure as minister. That'll get them begging more money out of their cabinet colleagues.
Ironically, I have just found out, the Safe Staffing Review Report of the Care Capacity Demand Management (CCDM) Programme is being released tomorrow arvo.
There is a feeling of SSDD. Whatever the results I am sure it will lack teeth and accountability for those at senior management or governance levels.
Edit, TBF, this isn’t the same all through the country, but it is particularly bad here in Mid Central.
Just watching Question Time in our House.
2 observations: 1 – a) Luxon reading from a prepared list of questions, not able to think on his feet and b) Simon Bridges able to extemporise as he goes along. Not as mentally agile as his shadow Finance Minister, or just inexperienced?
2 – Jacinda wiped the floor of Luxon, and so did Robertson of Bridges. No contest really!
Will never be reported as such in the MSM. Tripled hammered both of them. Almost embarrassing.
Will never be reported in the media because its meaningless.
Question time is a sport. Nice for entertainment but who on earth takes it seriously.
Bridges was National's best opposition leader at Question Time, his experience as a prosecutor came through, and – as you point out – he could pick up on a previous answer and think on his feet. (Bridges' problem was not in Parliament but the other areas, like being grumpy on TV).
As for Luxon, I get the impression Ardern enjoys squashing him, she's more feisty these days. Her body language says "you think you're such a big shot CEO, let's see what you got".
Always makes me laugh when people say she's just hugs and smiles. If they can't see the steel they really should watch Question Time.
In military terms (and I'm a pacifist!) – she's conducting a pre-emptive strike.
The poor bugger (Luxon) will never get up to speed if JA keeps shoving him down!
Her body language says "you think you're such a big shot CEO, let's see what you got".
So you reckon shes got a bit of an inferiority complex then, you'd have thought she'd have gotten over that being the PM and all
Nah, it must be nice having a fish in a barrel to shoot, rather than dealing with a serious opposition.
I don't understand her issue, she went from working in a fish n chip shop to working for someone alleged to be a war criminal to being PM
Thats a not too shabby rise in circumstances, I'd have thought anyone would be pleased with that
Oh, true – maybe he reminds her of back in the day, not shooting the fish but frying them until they're cooked.
Well she needs to let it go, I think shes a bit beyond settling old scores
That fish might be a bit flaky, anyway.
Now I want some fish and chips
me too.
PR, watch the Luxon link I posted above (#4). Though I'd perfectly understand if you don't want to. It's "Yes, Minister", except funnier.
You might not like Ardern's policies, but at least she knows them.
(Luxon ran an airline).
Fly-swatting is not one of the symptoms of an inferiority complex.
Still, Luxon ran an airline. You'd think he might have mentioned it. He ran an airline.
"What's your policy on the minimum wage?". "I ran an airline."
Soon it'll be, "I ran a mile".
Great to hear a tribute to the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, from Hon. Kiritapu Allan in today's debate on the PM's statement.
The ‘Boss’.
"Humble', "compassion with innate wisdom'. a 'very clear sense of purpose which gives us a sense of clarity.”
Agreed. The Prime Minister is in command of her material, her debating skills are so apparent and the opoosition have no reply to the rejoinders that they in government did little or even nothing to develop health, education, housing.
Today, Finance Minister Robertson informed the House in Question Time that the previous National government for two years spent nothing at all on new Health expenditure!
A great leadership team.
" Jacinda wiped the floor of Luxon, and so did Robertson of Bridges. No contest really!"
But you claimed that you were watching Question Time.
Can I suggest you turn the TV to Channel 31 and turn the sound on in future?
Who is going to tell the NZ Herald that Julie-Anne Genter hasn't been a minister for over a year, and Richard Prebble is now… a senile old man?
Update: It looks like they've pulled the story online (hence no link) but the opinion piece where Prebble spends an entire column attacking Julie-Anne Genter as the "associate transport minister" for reducing speed limits it is still in the print edition.
An utter debacle for the Herald.
lols
old dog barks at clouds
Another reason why I'm glad to live here and not elsewhere, just imagine if the NZ government did this
sorry, but if he can't give a clue as to what he is on about in the first thirty secs I'm struggling to know why I should spend time listening to the polemic of a RW youtuber.
Basically this:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385
‘With no need for court orders, banks can freeze personal accounts of anyone linked with the protests.’
‘Critics have noted that the prime minister voiced support for farmers in India who blocked major highways to New Delhi for a year in 2021, saying at the time: “Canada will always be there to defend the right of peaceful protest.”
Well, that will just confirm protestors fears about overreach. It looks like an intention to add fuel to the fire.
I always considered him a numpty, and not in a good way. Now I consider him a dangerous authoritarian.
"Scratch a Liberal, and a Fascist bleeds"
scratch a neoliberal
fify.
Sounds like the no true Scotsman fallacy
Tsk. More wokism.
Guy tweets a fight from finger poking to cops breaking it up, another dude asks how the cops knew who to arrest and who to ignore.
https://twitter.com/BeauTFC/status/1493781019375276037
blatant.
If you want to see what an opioid crisis looks like, fuelled by greed, watch Dopesick. Michael Keaton is superb.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopesick_(miniseries)
https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulletin/16-02-2022/preventing-an-avoidable-health-crisis
If you want to see the on the ground reality of an opioid crisis.
(careful, extremely distressing shit)
https://www.youtube.com/c/SBCNewsYouTube/featured