Open Mike 22/06/2018

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1. Jenny 1

   22 June 2018 at 6:52 am

   The Elephant in the Nursery

   “PM Jacinda Ardern’s baby: What the future will look like for a child born today?”
   stuff.co.nz –

   Stuff has published an article today with the above headline.

   Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern gave birth on Thursday, and her baby will grow up to be part of a generation that, based on statistics, could live a long life that lasts well into the next century.

   Obviously, life will be different for Ardern and her partner Clarke Gayford’s baby for at least some time as the child of the leader of the country.

   But there’s a lot that their baby will share with the nation’s other newborns.

   Stuff.co.nz – Last updated 20:39, June 21 2018

   Maybe Stuff were planning on a bigger article, but in the end settled on three sub headlines, on what it might be like for the Prime Minister’s child growing up.

   They were, “lifespan”, “Career”, “lifestyle”.

   The one other guaranteed certainty that could have been briefly covered, on what the Prime Minister’s growing daughter will share with the nation’s other newborns, is climate change.

   Maybe our more courageous and informed commenters could go where the mainstream media fear to tread?
   • Incognito 1.1

     22 June 2018 at 7:55 am

     We all face, or should contemplate, throughout life, these inter-related aspects of life:

     1) Quality of life; health & well-being with rich supportive and nurturing social communities and networks.

     2) Quality of occupation; meaningful occupation(s) that allows for individual and collective development.

     3) Quality of environment; a safe but stimulating environment with a place to live that provides a sense of connectedness and belonging.

     All of the above could be extended, added to, and elaborated on; they are the basis and consequence of our personal and collective values (and opinions).
   • Rosemary McDonald 1.2

     22 June 2018 at 8:44 am

     Is today a good day to yet again demand that this Coalition honours it’s promise to repeal Section 70A?
     Just so the less privileged child can feel,well, a little less underprivileged.
     • AsleepWhileWalking 1.2.1

       22 June 2018 at 9:18 am

       Good call Rosemary. They really need to follow through.
2. The Chairman 2

   22 June 2018 at 7:44 am

   Patient safety requires more money but the Government claims there is no more money to put on the table.

   Yet, when it comes to foreign aid, the Government can muster up a billion dollars. Or in the case of eradicating M.bovis, the Government is able to commit to signing a blank cheque.

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/06/grant-robertson-signs-blank-cheque-to-tackle-mycoplasma-bovis.html

   Who else thinks the Government has got its priorities wrong?
   • AsleepWhileWalking 2.1

     22 June 2018 at 9:23 am

     Yep.

     I think more people should watch Death Aid. Particularly the bit where foreign aid people planted a food crop (tomatoes?) along a bank. The locals who were experiencing famine laughed at them. The crop was maturing and was totally destroyed by rhinos or something.

     Not the doco but still good overview https://youtu.be/8FkVNpNiLd0

     Anyway, hey Govt stop misallocating our capital.
     • saveNZ 2.1.1

       22 June 2018 at 9:48 am

       I hear there is good aid money for conference centres and hotels in Nuie, and the maintenance contracts to run the hotels… to help the locals train to be waiters and chefs on minimum wages and a few million of aid for the rich list foreign owner/managers to run the hotels of course. wink, wink.

       There is also the Hillary foundation to contribute in. A few million of ‘aid’ to somebodies ex politican’s private charity seems obligatory for today’s small country politician’s for an eye on future career opportunities and influence.
   • Psych nurse 2.2

     22 June 2018 at 10:37 am

     Me but I have a vested interest. If a health professional carried on willingly spreading contagious disease as farmers have done you would lose both livelyhood and liberty. People are jailed for the same offence.
     • saveNZ 2.2.1

       22 June 2018 at 12:25 pm

       Sick people are less of a priority than sick cows because business loses money on sick cows but sick people are a commodity that can be replaced easier and cheaper than that cow, if you believe in one dimensional economics without social order and based on flawed models.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.3

     22 June 2018 at 4:31 pm

     Definitely got it’s priorities wrong – it’s still supporting capitalism.
3. Adrian 3

   22 June 2018 at 7:46 am

   The lead story on line from the Herald about Fonterra is the important one this morning and it goes a long way to explaining Shane Jones, Winston and Damien O’Connor publicly giving Fonterra a kicking.
   It illustrates how dopey dairy farmers in particular are with their adoption of TAF share trading and loud and strenuous objection to NAIT, both against reasoned advice.
   Both decisions have come to bite them on the arse like a rabid cattle dog with really bad financial decisions by Fonterra and the MB spread.
   Serve them right, but it has cost the country dearly.
   • dv 3.1

     22 June 2018 at 8:19 am

     RE Nait and compo to farmers

     ONLY those farmers whose cows are infected and who can show via NAIT their stock movements should be eligible for compensation.

     No compliance, NO compensation.
     • patricia bremner 3.1.1

       22 June 2018 at 9:19 am

       Farmers… comply or your stock die and you get nout.
     • Adrian 3.1.2

       22 June 2018 at 9:30 am

       Couldn’t agree more. The outrage in the rural newspapers that only farmers get had to be seen to be believed, the majority said then that they wouldn’t comply.
       Who is the biggest enabler… fucking Fonterra.
       No compliance, no milk pick up.
       This is the sort of Fonterra piss poor management that Shane Jones is on about,
       Kia kaha, Shane.
       • dv 3.1.2.1

         22 June 2018 at 11:22 am

         Yes agree, NAIT compliance should extend to milk pick up too.
   • OnceWasTim 3.2

     22 June 2018 at 1:49 pm

     Agreed!!!
     TAF , from what I recall was a means by which the idea of a corrupting a co-operative by appealing to a farmer’s desire for treats and trinkets could be achieved – the ability to sell (for an earn) the results of their shareholding without actually giving up ownership. Short term gain, long term pain.
     There were warnings at the time. I seem to remember Nine to Noon with its host (with a balanced portfolio and a work/life balance) had a couple of very sensible guests on alerting everyone to what has now come to pass.

     And for those farmers for whom things have, (or are about to) go(ne) tits up, they have an expectation that a “pretty communist” will come to the rescue in true communist style.

     There are those that are STILL not complying with NAIT quite obviously.
     I’m not sure what’s happened to @ Countryboy, but I’d be interested in hearing his perspective.

     (Parallels btw with the firearms register)
     • Jimmy 3.2.1

       22 June 2018 at 5:05 pm

       Firearms register?
       No such thing unless you own pistols or automatic weapons.
       • OnceWasTim 3.2.1.1

         22 June 2018 at 11:43 pm

         exactly
4. Ed 4

   22 June 2018 at 8:29 am

   Galloway nails it.

   “If you support Israel’s crimes, if you supported the assault that broke Libya, if you supported the “infestation” of Syria by foreign head-choppers, if you back the genocide in Yemen but are upset by crying children in your own camps – you are just a hypocrite. That’s all. “
   • Bewildered 4.1

     22 June 2018 at 9:54 am

     😺
   • Puckish Rogue 4.2

     22 June 2018 at 10:17 am

     https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/06/us_should_pull_out_of_un_human_rights_council.html

     “This tweet sums it up nicely. In the last ten years Israel has been condemned 68 times and China, Russia and Venezuela not once.”
     • Stuart Munro 4.2.1

       22 June 2018 at 10:26 am

       Poor babies – did they desist? Then no surprise that they are condemned.
       • Baba Yaga 4.2.1.1

         22 June 2018 at 12:56 pm

         Desist from what? Defending themselves against terrorism?
         • Wensleydale 4.2.1.1.1

           22 June 2018 at 1:19 pm

           Yes, because shooting a medic dressed in white with her arms raised to indicate she was there only to attend to the injured is totally defending yourself against terrorism. Well done, Israeli snipers. (You have scopes on those rifles, right? You might want to clean them occasionally so you can, you know, see who you’re about to shoot.) That dreadful terrorist. She would probably have thrown band-aids and antiseptic cream at them.
         • Stuart Munro 4.2.1.1.2

           22 June 2018 at 3:13 pm

           Disproportionate use of force BY.

           Heinlein got it – you don’t spank a baby with an axe. Unless you’re FITH like Trump.
     • crashcart 4.2.2

       22 June 2018 at 11:24 am

       All of those have been condemned multiple times in the security council. On the other hand Israel hasn’t due to the US being able to veto it there. The weight passes to smaller orgs to try and do something about it.

       https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/945004761618833409
   • mauī 4.3

     22 June 2018 at 11:09 am

     The centre left media puppets find their heart. Looks a lot like Hosking.
     https://youtu.be/TdPCMozwPbg
     • Bewildered 4.3.1

       22 June 2018 at 11:49 am

       Irrespective of view on this matter, really unprofessional performance
5. ScottGN 5

   22 June 2018 at 8:38 am

   Dominion Road light rail is now “city to Mangere” rather than “city to airport” as AT belatedly tries to refocus on what is really the whole point of that LRT. Which is as a commuter line servicing the southwestern city that just happens to terminate at the airport.
   And which eventually may extend north across the harbour (via tunnels) to Takapuna and Albany if/when the Northern Busway is converted to light rail.
   • saveNZ 5.1

     22 June 2018 at 9:43 am

     Funny tho, all the ‘high profile’ money pits seem to involve big business benefiting. No interest in the city rail loop until Sky City got their own stop and rebranded “city to Mangere” now has the airport piggy backing onto it with all that extra traffic, the rate payers and resident fitting the bill.

     Isn’t Auckland airport one of the most profitable in the world per journey. No wonder when you get poorer residents forced to contribute to bills.

     Likewise Sky City gets another sweetener onto of everything else. Are they still having China air having quicker entry for visas for Sky Cities VIP gambling clients?

     AT ‘consultation’ is the same as ‘Auckland University’ consultation, they made the decision before they had the consultation. might as well just not bother pretending to consult. The decision is made and nobody can change through consultation apart from a tiny bit of tinkering. Like RMA and OIA. It’s rubber-stamping for 99% of decisions.
   • Wensleydale 5.2

     22 June 2018 at 1:23 pm

     So, affluent white people probably won’t use it then. They’d rather chew their own legs off than visit Mangere. Unless it’s Mangere Bridge, which has been sufficiently gentrified. (And I say that as a resident of Mangere.)
     • saveNZ 5.2.1

       22 June 2018 at 2:34 pm

       The way gentrification is going I think it’s not so much colour based aka affluent white people (Auckland 50% Asian) but more class based what is happening.

       By the time the rail way line gets built I doubt there will be the traditional Maori and Pacific Islanders living in South Auckland, they will have been displaced by high rents and the cost of living.

       Note in Auckland even food has gone up $21 since the start of the year, add in rates which will impact mortgages/rents, power, metro water, petrol, insurance and travel charges aka train/bus

       The government will get their way of race displacement in Auckland. History is going to show it. The stats already say what has happened in only a decade with how the neoliberal government policy is playing out.
       • saveNZ 5.2.1.1

         22 June 2018 at 2:44 pm

         Remember how we were all fed that lie about Metrowater fees being necessary as well as council rates so we could have that 21c separation of pipes… tricked Yah!

         http://trendingnowgh.com/opposition-grows-to-pumping-sewage-into-waitemata-harbour-near-the-harbour-bridge/
6. One Anonymous Bloke 6

   22 June 2018 at 8:54 am

   Good to see Andrew Little showing public disdain for Garrett and McVicar and their pathetic vengeance fantasies. Wiped the floor with Mitchell in the House yesterday.

   Nice to see Key’s molestation offences formally recorded in Hansard too.
   • Adrian 6.1

     22 June 2018 at 9:33 am

     Keys molestation offences? Not Max’s surely?
     • veutoviper 6.1.1

       22 June 2018 at 1:26 pm

       Key senior’s inability to keep his hands off of a certain female cafe worker’s hair.

       Here is the link to the Mitchell/Little exchange under Question 4 yesterday:

       https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=201056

       Mitchell did not come off well.

       Paula Bennett had tried a similar approach to trying to ‘pin’ Little for alleged belittling (unintended pun) the seriousness of the pinching assault of a female prison officer under Question 1 to the Prime Minister (answered by the Acting Prime Minister):

       https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=201056

       Having not done too well in that exchange and Mitchell also failing in his attempts, Bennett then tried again later under Question 6 to trap Julie Ann Genter as Minister for Women into disagreeing with Little re the same incident – without success:

       https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=201060

       To give her some due, as Deputy Opposition Leader, Bennett had been the first in the House yesterday to congratulate Ardern, wish her well etc on going into labour in a Motion Without Notice during the earlier morning session under Urgency of the House:
       https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=201011

       Between the above Questions and also others such as Question 3 (Amy Adams to David Parker – see 11.1.1 below) it was an interesting Thursday QT for a change. Thursday QT are not usually so “vibrant”. LOL.
7. saveNZ 7

   22 June 2018 at 9:35 am

   Weird we can give away free water overseas for 40 “never never” jobs of unknown duration and quality ( “full production is hardly a date”), but happy to see our educational outcomes reduced and lose 40 jobs immediately at our highest ranked university….

   Didn’t exactly see our politicians worrying about those jobs. If it’s not cows or trade or fake/low level degrees for residency then the politicians seem to think it’s outside their radar… someones got our politicians trained for neoliberalism down to a t.

   At the end of the day who cares about the arts, architecture, music and planning when you can just import farm workers, aged care workers and chefs and become another low wage asian economy, more consumers with low level education, easier for banks, construction and infrastructure companies to profit from, as they harvest natural assets, which is some economists and our local and central governments dream position for NZ.

   http://teu.ac.nz/2018/06/auckland-library-cuts/
8. Puckish Rogue 8

   22 June 2018 at 10:13 am

   David Parker now making a run for title of dodgiest Labour minister

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104911541/david-parker-denies-accusation-over-foreign-buyers-ban

   Richard Harmon went more in depth behind a paywall on Politik, apologies for the length of the post

   ==Labour and the Queenstown Property Developer==

   Published: 21 June 2018 By Richard Harman (author)

   Questions are being asked about how a group of Labour MPs on a Select Committee agreed to grant an exemption from the overseas buyers ban to a luxury Northland property development where sections are valued at up to $4.5 million each.

   The exemption has now been removed for procedural reasons but how it got where it did raises some intriguing questions.

   They are accentuated because the inclusion is so unusual, particularly for a Labour Government, to grant what in effect was a special favour to wealthy property developers.

   Labour disputes that and says it was actually granting a favour to the local iwi who stood to be substantially disadvantaged if the development did not go ahead.

   But POLITIK has found that the iwi have only a minority interest in the development.

   On the face of it, the exemption flew in the face of everything Labour has been saying about property development since it became the Government.

   For example, only 12 days ago, the Minister in charge of the Overseas Investment Amendment Bill, which implements the ban, David Parker, said this:

   “We want the prices of New Zealand homes, whether it be a lakeside station, the best houses in the Bay of Islands or the modest homes in our towns and cities, to be set by local buyers, not on the international market,” he said.

   “It’s also a matter of values. We believe New Zealand homes should not be traded on an international market and New Zealanders should not be outbid by wealthier foreign buyers.”

   But that is precisely what the developers of Te Arai are intending with their building lots which have rating valuations of up to $4.5 million each being offered on the international market.

   Also worrying was that the exemption was granted to only one development; a point the Speaker was later to fasten on pointing out that the possibility of an exemption had not been offered to other developers.

   —The development—

   The development itself consists of 100 sites spread through a forest adjacent to a pristine east coast beach.

   Its history is complex and involves two Maori entities; Te Uri o Hau and Ngati Manuhiri.

   The Maori entities, beginning in 2000, reached two treaty settlements with the crown which entailed, among other things, then purchasing two crown forests totalling 1370 hectares adjacent to beachfront south of Mangawhai on the east coast of Northland.

   The crown valuation for the forests was set at their “highest and best” land use, which was not forestry but included tourism and residential uses.

   In a submission to Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee, the hapu and the iwi said:

   “While they were commercial forests, the trees were low-grade third rotation pine and the lands’ true economic value was based on subdividing the land into residential lots and forest rural lifestyle lots (under 5 hectares) and developing the land and recreational and tourism uses.

   Initial plans for the Mangawhai North Forest were for a coastal subdivision of around 700 properties.

   The Mangawhai South Forest could have delivered a larger number of properties.

   This would have seen the two forests largely clear-felled and replaced with around 1500 new homes just south of Mangawhai.”

   Unveiled in 2005, this would have created a town nearly twice the size of Mangawhai immediately to its south effectively setting up a new urban centre on the Northland east coast.

   The proposal almost immediately ran into local objections and resource consent difficulties with the-then Rodney District Council.

   —Enter John Darby—

   So thwarted in their property development ambitions, and with little access to more capital, the following year the Maori sold 75 per cent of their holding to NZ Land Trust Holdings, a Queenstown based company for $21.8 million and the two sides formed a new company, Te Arai Coastal Lands to continue the development.

   NZ Land Trust Holdings is a company associated with a Queenstown landscape architect and property developer, John Darby.

   On his website he describes himself as one of the most successful investors in New Zealand, with investment interests in multiple industries.

   He has near-celebrity status in Central Otago.

   He has developed a string of luxury lodges and resorts including Millbrook, Blanket Bay on the shores of Lake Wakatipu near Glenorchy, the upmarket Jacks Point golf course and clubhouse, Clearwater Resort and Golf Course in Christchurch and Michael Hill’s private golf course.

   Darby’s background is in landscape architecture and he’s a HarvardUniversity-trained golf course architect and resort planner.

   He is also a high profile networker and has a connection with Labour’s Associate Finance Minister David Parker as well as a public relations firm with close Labour connections.

   His highest profile networking came when he hosted the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge at his Amisfield winery in 2014.

   He was to turn Te Arai from a proposed beachside town into a boutique upmarket luxury development aimed at the international market.

   Initially the directors of Te Arai Coastal Lands were two local Maori; Rawson Wright and the late Russell Kemp and a Dunedin lawyer, Fraser Goldsmith.

   Goldsmith was working at the time for Anderson Lloyd, an Otago law firm that acted for Darby and co-incidentally also employed David Parker before he entered Parliament.

   Darby had another connection with Parker. Both worked with and were friends of the Otago entrepreneur, the late Howard Patterson.

   Darby’s relationship with Patterson saw Patterson become one of the original shareholders in the NZ Land Trust which was the vehicle Darby used to buy into Te Arai.

   —The golfing billionaire—

   Once Darby’s company had control of Te Arai, the proposal was changed several times until an application in 2009 for 180 sites was turned down by planning commissioners.

   This was the point where things appear to have changed.

   In 2012, a Los Angeles Billionaire and fanatical golfer, Rick Kayne bought 230 hectares of the Te Arai forest and began turning it into what is now regarded as one of the best golf courses in the world – Tara Iti.

   It was where John Key played his round with Barrack Obama.

   Tara Iti set the tone for what was now happening.

   Te Arai now be a boutique development aimed at the world’s super-wealthy. .

   In 2014 Te Arai gifted a 400-hectare publicly-owned coastal reserve, with the vesting of the entire beach frontages and sensitive ecological areas in both forests to Auckland Council.

   This created a 15km publicly owned stretch of beachfront.

   But behind the reserve running along the beachfront, Te Arai obtained permission to develop 46 homesites.

   The lots will sit behind at least 200 metres of reserve land on a 5.2-kilometre coastal stretch and will not be visible from the beach.

   In its submission to the Select Committee Te Arai emphasised that the buyers would be overseas people.

   “The time and cost to develop projects of such a high calibre and amenity value, with limited number of allowable home sites, results in these properties requiring to be sold into the high-value market,” it said.

   “Purchasers of these types of sites would typically spend between two-to-three times the purchase price of the bare land on building improvements.

   “For projects such as ours to be undertaken, we require a large pool of potential purchasers.

   “Due to the required price point for such home sites to be economical, and the relatively small size of the New Zealand/Australian buyer pool in this price point, such a purchaser pool is necessarily going to be a wider international one. “

   QV currently shows sections in the development with rating valuations of up to $4.5 million each.

   —NZ First objects—

   There have been consistent objections to the development — not the least from New Zealand First.

   In February last year NZ First Leader Winston Peters issued a press statement saying that Finance Minister Steven Joyce had signed off a change to the Te Arai beach access road without even discussing it with the community.

   “Mr Joyce said in his answers that ‘it is important to remember that this is iwi-owned land,” said Peters.

   “He neglected to mention that the iwi, seriously financially challenged, have had to partner with US billionaire Ric Kayne’s company Te Arai North Ltd, to get a return on their money or lose it.”

   In fact the partnership is also with John Darby and the iwi have been left with only 25 per cent of the holding company.

   Even the Maori representatives on the company board are no longer there.

   Instead the directors are John Darby and one of his executives, Jim Castiglione

   —Overplaying the iwi role—

   The question of the iwi role is important.

   Speaker Trevor Mallard has ruled that the inclusion of the exemption for Te Arai was improper for procedural reasons.

   There were other ways the exemption could probably have been granted, he said.

   But even though the Committee was advised what it was doing in recommending the exemption was improper and even though the Opposition opposed it, the Committee went ahead and recommended it.

   Mallard, however, appeared to excuse them.

   “I appreciate that the amendment was made by the Finance and Expenditure Committee at the request of the landowner in order to preserve the value of the land purchased as commercial redress following Treaty of Waitangi settlements,” he said.

   “The committee was motivated by a desire to assist and to be fair to the landowner.”

   It would appear that Parliament was under the misapprehension that this development was essentially an iwi development when in fact it was a high priced luxury development 75 per cent owned by a property development company that boasts of having completed $2 billion of developments.

   There is another casual link between Te Arai and the Government — Te Arai’s public relations consultant is David Lewis, a former press secretary to Helen Clark and business partner of Gordon-John Thompson who filled in as Jacinda Ardern’s Chief of Staff when the Government was being formed.

   What all this adds up to is what Parliamentary insiders would call an “untidy” process

   Was it because Parliament misunderstood who really owned Te Arai that led to the exemption being granted and did Parker know what was going on.

   Did he know people he knew were deeply involved in getting the exemption?

   In a way, it doesn’t matter because Mallard has struck the exemption from the Bill.

   But the opposition may not see it that way. they may well want to pursue this matter further.
   • marty mars 8.1

     22 June 2018 at 10:24 am

     Jeeze mate did one of your minions put that shocker up – bit of a fail imo.
     • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1

       22 June 2018 at 10:42 am

       Yeah I didn’t quite realise how long it was until I posted it, i know how annoying it is to scroll through screeds and screeds of stuff and then I go and do it myself

       That being that its also not the first time David Parker has got himself into a spot of bother:

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10373671

       “In respect of my own life I’ve done a lot more in my life than a lot of people have and overall I am proud of my achievements, but I’m certainly ashamed of this particular mistake,” he said last night. With the benefit of hindsight I was a bit glib in the way I ticked the form and sent it in.”
       • alwyn 8.1.1.1

         22 June 2018 at 10:59 am

         Wasn’t he the most modest of men in those days? Reminds me of The Donald in that way. I can just imagine Parker describing himself as “a very stable genius”.
         Pity he didn’t stay that way. I’m afraid he has now lost the plot.
         Still, aren’t we so privileged to have someone of his calibre in our Parliament.
         Rather like the 0.177 air rifle I had as a kid.
       • Pat 8.1.1.2

         22 June 2018 at 11:14 am

         really?…if youre going to trawl back to 2006 at least report the outcome….

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10379118

         “David Parker will be reinstated to the Cabinet next week after a Companies Office inquiry emphatically cleared him of filing false returns – but he is unlikely to regain his role as Attorney-General.

         A smiling Mr Parker, tipped as a rising star within Labour, said: “Now I feel vindicated. I feel pretty good.”

         An opinion from Crown solicitors Meredith Connell concluded no case “whatsoever” for a prosecution existed, not even at prima facie level. “
         • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.2.1

           22 June 2018 at 11:23 am

           As the left so like to point out that just because something is legal doesn’t make it correct so I’m going off his own words:

           “but I’m certainly ashamed of this particular mistake,” he said last night. With the benefit of hindsight I was a bit glib in the way I ticked the form and sent it in.”
           • Pat 8.1.1.2.1.1

             22 June 2018 at 11:39 am

             and what year was it again when you graduated from the Exceltium School for Alternative Facts?
           • Robert Guyton 8.1.1.2.1.2

             22 June 2018 at 11:47 am

             This fevered attack from you is a little unseemly, Pucky. My guess is, you’ve spent too long trawling Kiwiblog or Pete George’s greyblog and lost your head, sense of reality, decorum and some of the limited standing you might have previously enjoyed here. Still, you could patch up afterwards, I suppose, with grudging apologies or attempts at humour; we shall see how it unfolds (your about-face that is; Parker is not going to suffer because of Hooten et all and their witless shrieking).
             • Puckish Rogue …

               22 June 2018 at 11:58 am

               The exemption seemed to be for an Iwi owned company, except the company is 75% foreign owned

               Had it gone ahead wouldn’t that just be a backdoor entry for any overseas company to buy in and isn’t that the sort of thing the left accused National of
               • Robert Guyton …

                 22 June 2018 at 12:07 pm

                 Mallard said:
                 “I appreciate that the amendment was made by the Finance and Expenditure Committee at the request of the landowner in order to preserve the value of the land purchased as commercial redress following Treaty of Waitangi settlements,” he said.

                 “The committee was motivated by a desire to assist and to be fair to the landowner.”

                 In the interview, David Parker made clear that the needs of iwi granted compensation as the result of their treaty settlement have to be considered favourably and that is what motivated his actions. The rest is churn and you are churning.
               • Robert Guyton …

                 22 June 2018 at 12:10 pm

                 And Pucky, are you really trying to drag the events of 2006 into this argument?
                 If so, you are scrrrrrrrrrrrrrraping the barrels bottom, aren’t you?
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   22 June 2018 at 12:14 pm

                   Ok substitute any National MPs name for David Parker and tell me the left wouldn’t have been calling for his or hers resignation whereas I’m saying it looks dodgy

                   Because it does look dodgy
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     22 June 2018 at 12:19 pm

                     To you. Not to me.
                     “Speaker Trevor Mallard has ruled that the inclusion of the exemption for Te Arai was improper for procedural reasons.

                     There were other ways the exemption could probably have been granted, he said.”

                     Not dodgy. Procedural reasons. Other ways to achieve the same outcome. You’re looking to inflame. For no justifiable reason. Not that it matters…
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     22 June 2018 at 12:23 pm

                     Well Ok then my argument obviously isn’t good enough. Had a National MP worked at the same firm and been friends with the same people involved with the company and the company was owned by an american billionaire and that MP had tried to get an exemption for that company and that company alone the cries of corruption and resignation from the left would be deafening
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     22 June 2018 at 12:27 pm

                     “Well Ok then my argument obviously isn’t good enough”
                     Hey! That’s not troll language! You okay?
                     Oh! No worries, your edit straightened that misconception out. I suppose commentators from “the Left” would be doing as you describe but … “you do it too”, Pucky? I’m off. Can’t argue with that. In any case, I’ve a hobbit hole to dig (it won’t dig itself!)
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     22 June 2018 at 12:40 pm

                     If my argument was good enough it would have changed peoples opinions and since it hasn’t then my argument wasn’t good enough and I need to do better

                     Also I’m not a troll (more of a puckish rogue really 🙂 ) but I have noticed the level of debate here has somewhat regressed of late so I’m trying to be less..I don’t know confrontational maybe to hopefully help improve the situation, sort of like I I can’t make anyone else improve but I can improve myself and maybe that will, in some small part, help improve the general level of debating
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     22 June 2018 at 2:12 pm

                     Well Pucky, I don’t regard you as a troll at all, but your effort today lacked the lighter touch you have been working on – you acted like a dyed in the wool Nat, leaping to the worst possible conclusion and even seemed happy to cite an ancient, unconvincing failing of Mr Parkers. Still, the tone of your comment at 12:40 is very encouraging and I’ll put your poor performance today down to human error and look forward to your refreshed approach next week 🙂
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     22 June 2018 at 2:15 pm

                     Obligatory motivational Friday clip 🙂
         • alwyn 8.1.1.2.2

           22 June 2018 at 11:35 am

           Yes, that was a very convenient letter wasn’t it?
           Unsigned, as I remember it. Nobody ever seemed to have remembered it or to recollect writing it and it just turned up after a search of the files.
           Very, very convenient wasn’t it?
           • Pat 8.1.1.2.2.1

             22 June 2018 at 11:42 am

             suggest you avail yourself of a dictionary and look up ’emphatic’ and ‘prima facie’
             • Wensleydale …

               22 June 2018 at 1:26 pm

               Alwyn doesn’t have time to consult dictionaries. It would eat into the time he’d otherwise spend trying to appear clever on the internet.
         • Anne 8.1.1.2.3

           22 June 2018 at 12:13 pm

           Pat @8.1.1.2
           My memory of that case is: the former associate in question (presumably the Mr Hyslop mentioned in the item) was known to hold a grudge against David Parker because he “mistakenly” believed Parker was responsible for him being bankrupted. It emerged sometime later – but don’t remember the details – that Hyslop was wrong.
           • Pat 8.1.1.2.3.1

             22 June 2018 at 1:32 pm

             think Hooton chose a poor target for this venture in Parker…a lawyer with a reputation for integrity …dont think this will go unchallenged as I suspect the Herald has already discovered
       • save NZ 8.1.1.3

         22 June 2018 at 12:22 pm

         Yep David Parker, defiantly a neoliberal of the highest order aka selling out for TPPA. So no surprises if dollars beats principals for him in land sales to rich buyers. Then he worries about how Kiwis can’t afford to buy their own prime land anymore. The answer is because of deals like that, along with their obsession with bringing in low skilled people to create a low wage economy and drive down wages.

         Then go on about the price of land being a factor in the high house prices and then they allow foreigners to buy up and speculate on NZ land??? Can’t do that in China but as usual the dimwits do a deal that gives the Chinese a huge advantage in the deal and they are smiling as they get a little cut of the pie instead of a proper deal where there is equal benefit for both countries.

         Probably Labour still are wondering why are National still on 48% when everyone hates the natz so much.

         The answer is the wolves in sheeps clothing Labour MP’s forging their neoliberal policy in Labour.
   • Pat 8.2

     22 June 2018 at 10:25 am

     https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018650434/te-arai-foreign-buyer-exemption-claims-outrageous-parker
     • Pat 8.2.1

       22 June 2018 at 10:40 am

       further note that the Herald appear to have pulled Hooton’s original piece…..he (Hooton) seems to be working on commission for the legal fraternity now.
     • Anne 8.2.2

       22 June 2018 at 11:35 am

       Yes, I heard that RNZ item this morning and had the sense David Parker was being blindsided by a mischievous ‘re-arrangement’ of the story behind the story in question. For example, it turns out that a principle player by the name of “John Darby” is not a friend or close associate of David Parker’s as was being suggested. He (Parker) knew him through a former work-place around 20 years ago. As Parker said… he’s merely one of a thousand or so people I have met over the years.

       He was obviously very angry and at one point politely advised Espiner that some of the claims he was making were bordering on defamation.
       • Puckish Rogue 8.2.2.1

         22 June 2018 at 12:19 pm

         Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.2.3.1
         22 June 2018 at 12:17 pm
         I’m not saying they were friends but there’s certainly more than just a casual connection

         ‘Initially the directors of Te Arai Coastal Lands were two local Maori; Rawson Wright and the late Russell Kemp and a Dunedin lawyer, Fraser Goldsmith.

         Goldsmith was working at the time for Anderson Lloyd, an Otago law firm that acted for Darby and co-incidentally also employed David Parker before he entered Parliament.

         Darby had another connection with Parker. Both worked with and were friends of the Otago entrepreneur, the late Howard Patterson.

         Darby’s relationship with Patterson saw Patterson become one of the original shareholders in the NZ Land Trust which was the vehicle Darby used to buy into Te Arai.’
         • Robert Guyton 8.2.2.1.1

           22 June 2018 at 12:26 pm

           Oops, reply @11
         • Anne 8.2.2.1.2

           22 June 2018 at 12:34 pm

           Bollocks PR @8.2.2.1

           You can have all manner of connections to a person but they are no more than casual associations and, more often than not, come about through a set of innocent circumstances. If you base the kind of inferences that are currently being leveled at David Parker as sinister then nobody, anywhere would dare have verbal intercourse with anyone, anywhere – or even be seen in the same room. Anarchy would prevail.

           David Parker must be a very angry man at the moment. More fool him or her who pursues this line of innuendo. They will likely end up facing Parker in court.
           • Puckish Rogue 8.2.2.1.2.1

             22 June 2018 at 12:43 pm

             ” They will likely end up facing Parker in court”

             Thats one way to find out what happened
             • veutoviper …

               22 June 2018 at 1:01 pm

               PR, IMO the various media articles and interviews discussed above, also need to be considered in the light of Parker’s answers in the House yesterday to Question 3 from Amy Adams. I have already provided a link to this at the new thread below at 11.1.1 but here it is again. Parker is pretty clear in his responses, as is the Speaker.

               https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=201056
           • Draco T Bastard 8.2.2.1.2.2

             22 June 2018 at 4:18 pm

             Anarchy would prevail.

             We could but hope…

             Oh, wait – you mean chaos.
             • Anne …

               22 June 2018 at 5:25 pm

               Definition of anarchy:

               …lawlessness, absence of government, nihilism, mobocracy, revolution, insurrection, riot, rebellion, mutiny, disorder, disorganization, misrule, chaos, tumult, turmoil, mayhem, pandemonium
               “the country is threatened with anarchy”

               🙂
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 22 June 2018 at 8:04 pm

                 Anarchy

                 Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.

                 But we should probably look at the origin as well:

                 Mid 16th century: via medieval Latin from Greek anarkhia, from anarkhos, from an- ‘without’ + arkhos ‘chief, ruler’.

                 Without chief.

                 Far more accurate.

                 Anarchism

                 Anarchism is a political philosophy that advocates self-governed societies based on voluntary institutions. These are often described as stateless societies,[1][2][3][4] although several authors have defined them more specifically as institutions based on non-hierarchical or free associations.[5][6][7][8] Anarchism holds the state to be undesirable, unnecessary and harmful.

                 As has been said:

                 Too often associated with mayhem on the streets, for centuries anarchists have actually sought a more ordered society

                 The dictators don’t like people governing themselves though and insist that we need to be governed.
           • Graeme 8.2.2.1.2.3

             22 June 2018 at 6:11 pm

             +1000 Anne

             PR has just shown how little life experience he really has, and that appears to be in the relative anonymity of a small,young player in a city like Auckland.

             It would be impossible to have a legal and business career, be the MP for Otago, and be a senior MP with a 20 year career without having the acquaintance of prominent business players in the region. The place is just too small. Everybody knows everybody.

             But that doesn’t mean they are all doing dodgy deals with each other.

             Around Otago, and especially Queenstown it would be almost impossible to find a lawyer, or firm that won’t have some conflicting clients. In my experience this is handled in a professional manner, and declared, this includes Anderson Lloyd. PR is drawing a very long bow indeed with those accusations.

             Edit. I see the thread split, and he has withwdrawn and appogised below. Good lad.
9. marty mars 9

   22 June 2018 at 10:21 am

   This a shocker especially with plastic being found everywhere. I used to think the oil industry would kill us via cars and environmental degradation but now I realise they did it via plastic – the actual killer of life.

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/104854515/manufacturer-accused-of-spilling-thousands-of-plastic-nurdles-into-wellington-harbour
   • Draco T Bastard 9.1

     22 June 2018 at 12:32 pm

     Yep

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch
     https://www.newscientist.com/article/2131051-remote-pacific-island-found-buried-under-tonnes-of-plastic-waste/
10. marty mars 10

    22 June 2018 at 11:38 am

    I’ve been away for 6 months. Can someone please explain or link to what has happened to weka. Thanks
    • Robert Guyton 10.1

      22 June 2018 at 11:43 am

      And please also.
      • Antoine 10.1.1

        22 June 2018 at 11:58 am

        I guess if she wanted us to know, she would have told us

        There is a right to privacy

        A.
        • marty mars 10.1.1.1

          22 June 2018 at 12:07 pm

          Mate I now you’re new but in the past on this blog the kaupapa is for major contributors to get a send off when they leave for whatever private reason they may have. I have genuine concern for someone whose writing and thinking I admire and miss. Often a series of comments and posts preceed a leaving or there are comments after – I wanted a link to that.
    • veutoviper 10.2

      22 June 2018 at 12:17 pm

      weka dropped out of sight in early April, both here and on Twitter.

      When people raised concerns/enquiries here on TS some time later in mid May(?), Tracey advised that weka was OK so presumably she is in direct contact with weka.
      • marty mars 10.2.1

        22 June 2018 at 12:23 pm

        Thank you.
      • Puckish Rogue 10.2.2

        22 June 2018 at 12:28 pm

        Thats good to hear, Weka was always one of the people on here that was able to make me (and presumably others) at least think about things in different ways
11. Robert Guyton 11

    22 June 2018 at 12:25 pm

    “I’m not saying they were friends but there’s certainly more than just a casual connection”
    Parker very clearly described the situation but you are bumbling on with your accusations, despite listening to his interview; you did listen to the interview, Pucky? Parker made his position very clear. Did you miss that?
    • Puckish Rogue 11.1

      22 June 2018 at 12:31 pm

      Nope, a little busy this morning at work. If what was written was wrong i’m sure the writer will get sued though.
      • veutoviper 11.1.1

        22 June 2018 at 12:52 pm

        Pat already put up the link to the Espiner Parker exchange on Morning Report this morning at 8.2 in the earlier thread, but here it is again. (11+ mins)

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018650434/te-arai-foreign-buyer-exemption-claims-outrageous-parker

        This was also the topic of a ‘heated’ discussion under Question 3 in Question Time in the House yesterday (Amy Adams to Parker) so here is a link to this as well as IMHO this morning’s interview needs to be heard in the context of this earlier exchange :

        https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand?itemId=201056
        • Puckish Rogue 11.1.1.1

          22 June 2018 at 12:55 pm

          Cool, I’ll listen to it later
      • ianmac 11.1.2

        22 June 2018 at 1:05 pm

        Funny that. David says on Morning Report that to impinge on his integrity in your way is libellous. So watch out Puckish old chap. You would be wise to withdraw your accusations, and apologise to David.
        • Puckish Rogue 11.1.2.1

          22 June 2018 at 1:29 pm

          I withdraw and I’m very sorry David
          • veutoviper 11.1.2.1.1

            22 June 2018 at 2:26 pm

            Love it!!!!!!!!! LOL.
            • Puckish Rogue 11.1.2.1.1.1

              22 June 2018 at 2:32 pm

              One of the greatest sitcoms ever I feel
          • ianmac 11.1.2.1.2

            22 June 2018 at 4:12 pm

            Good on yer Puck. We are generally anonymous here but welcome to your whiskery self. Do you have trouble with your teeth?
12. Chris 12

    22 June 2018 at 1:27 pm

    Looks like slater’s in for a drubbing this coming October. He’s getting clobbered with costs awards against him, too. Poor bugger:

    http://www.nzlii.org/nz/cases/NZHC/2018/1099.html

    http://www.nzlii.org/nz/cases/NZHC/2018/1101.html
13. eco Maori 13

    23 June 2018 at 7:21 am

    here we go i wonder how the sandflys no were i am all the time do they have warrants to bug my ph or my gps have they given my number to their redneck m8s link below
    ka kite ano
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/jun/22/supreme-court-bans-police-access-to-phone-data-without-a-warrant
14. Eco Maori 14

    23 June 2018 at 2:39 pm

    Here a report views on Papatuanukue and Atoearoa reality link is Below

    COMMENT
    Yesterdaze: When a child is born
    James Elliott
    Ka kite ano
15. Eco Maori 15

    23 June 2018 at 8:41 pm

    Here is the link for the above post some thing funny happening to my phone

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/06/22/128750/when-a-child-is-born
    • Eco Maori 15.1

      23 June 2018 at 8:51 pm

      I told them that everytime the try to use there unethical tactic to try and intimidat ECO MAORI than there bad Karma is going to bite them on the – – – the sandflys were really stepping up the intimidation to night they have been getting in the shit at every turn I wonder why they really have their nickers in a twist NO. Ana to kai Ka kite ano P.S now THE Rotorua lot are just using their lights so no one can hear them muppets

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