Open mike 02/11/2024

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1. joe90 1

   2 November 2024 at 7:49 am

   Israeli TV chyron.

   .

   @yairwallach.bsky.social‬

   Netanyahu's propaganda channel:

   "Concerns in Jerusalem that terror supporter Kamala Harris will be elected president"

   https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:zkolo4y7hpfos5kyn53kj73n/post/3l7tfpkj6cf2w?
   • Jenny 1.1

     2 November 2024 at 8:29 am

     Love your work Joe. I always look for your comments.

     I wonder if you could give me your take on this.

     It sounds hysterical and even hard to believe

     Mehdi Hasan and Steve Schmidt, come together from opposite sides of the political spectrum, to warn us. These are not stupid guys.

     But could they be the only adults in the room?

     Could they be right?

     Is a fascist takeover in the US possible, or even likely, as Hasan and Schmidt are saying?

     This is not business as usual folks

     Are our leaders in the military and security community aware of this threat?

     What advice are they giving our political leaders?

     And is our country prepared for this possible eventuality?

     I really wish people here, cleverer than me, would give me their thoughts?

     Republicans preparing to reject US election result if Trump loses, warn strategists

     Polling experts point to ‘fake polls’ exaggerating his support, with baseless lawsuits alleging fraud already filed

     The Guardian Fri 1 Nov 2024 13.12 GMT

     Robert Tait in Washington

     Republicans are already laying the ground for rejecting the result of next week’s US presidential election in the event Donald Trump loses, with early lawsuits baselessly alleging fraud and polls from right-leaning groups that analysts say may be exaggerating his popularity and could be used by Trump to claim only cheating prevented him from returning to the White House.

     The warnings – from Democrats and anti-Trump Republicans – come as Americans prepare to vote on Tuesday in the most consequential presidential contest in generations. Most polls show Trump running neck and neck with Kamala Harris……
     • joe90 1.1.1

       2 November 2024 at 10:05 am

       Trump takes advantage of maga morans, rotten legislatures and corrupt courts to throw a last roll and his backers their opportunity to remake the US into a country that gives them the status that they think they deserve.

       If he wins he goes quietly with Vance's assurances of immunity and with their man at the helm, the billionaire class get their robber baron version of apartheid SA.

       That's it.

       That “Little Secret” Between Trump and Johnson? Here’s What It Could Mean.

       The “secret” almost certainly involves a plan to install Trump in the White House if he loses the election—but this plan could be even worse than you think.

       […]

       Most educated guesses assume that Trump and Johnson are “secretly” talking about installing Trump as president through a “contingent election,” whereby the House of Representatives, not the Electoral College, determines the president. I think the plot goes deeper than that, but let’s start with the contingent election idea.

       https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/little-secret-trump-johnson-election/

       (Elie Mystal)
       • Tony Veitch 1.1.1.1

         2 November 2024 at 11:00 am

         I've even read that Republicans are quietly plotting, once Trump "wins" to dispose of him under the 25th Amendment and install J D Vance as president.

         Sorry, can’t give a link, but one of the Thom Hartman podcasts.

         And that, folks, might be even worse that Trump!
         • joe90 1.1.1.1.1

           2 November 2024 at 11:15 am

           And that, folks, might be even worse that Trump!

           Yup. And workers rights will be first on the block.

           https://truthout.org/articles/trump-calls-for-25th-amendment-to-be-modified-should-vance-be-worried/
     • Stephen D 1.1.2

       2 November 2024 at 6:25 pm

       Not sure how that would work. For a successful coup, Trump would need the military. Who are loyal to the Constitution, rather than an individual.
       • Jenny 1.1.2.1

         3 November 2024 at 4:52 pm

         Stephen D @1.1.2

         2 November 2024 at 6:25 pm

         Not sure how that would work. For a successful coup, Trump would need the military. Who are loyal to the Constitution, rather than an individual.

         I'm not sure either. But Hasan and Schmidt suggest, that how that would work, would begin with a program of appointing military leaders loyal to Trump.

         From the Youtube video above

         @13:10 minutes:

         ….The man put on 'Truth Social', his ridiculously named social media site, that he's going to terminate the Constitution, right. That is what he said over a year ago, right. That should form the basis for every discussion.

         He has said on record, he wants to terminate the Constitution and therefore everything flows from thatr…….

         @20:07 minutes:

         …..The Trump Reich is going to be bumpier than than I think the Maga fanatics, um uh, think it is.

         That being said, you will have, very quickly I think, a purge in the military of senior officers, you'll have an absolute politicization, you'll have people like General Flynn, you'll have people like Cash Patel, you'll have people like Ric Grenell, you'll have people like Stephen Miller.

         And you will very quickly have a law enforcement operation underway, that is unprecedented in any of our lifetimes…..

         …..He had some resistance from the DOJ, remember, they famously said; 'we will all resign if you make the crazy guy AG'.

         That's not going to happen this time….

         …..the guy who was head of Trump's um was saying on this secret recording. "Well we've given him a 50-page dossier on how he can use the military from day one".
         He's going to put the military on the street and I keep reminding people of this in 2020 in the summer of 2020 when there were people outside in Lafayette Square, Trump called Mark Esper and said, "Why can't you shoot them shoot them in the legs?", Esper said we can't do that sir next time around it'll be defense secretary Michael Flynn or cash Patel who says yes sir whatever you say….
2. dv 2

   2 November 2024 at 8:39 am

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/us-election-2024/532618/us-election-trump-s-fraud-claims-revive-fears-he-may-again-seek-to-overturn-election-results

   "TRUMP blames his win in the election on fraud

   There fixed it.
   • SPC 2.1

     2 November 2024 at 3:51 pm

     The 2020 play was to cause doubt about the result in Pennsylvania (maybe to block completion of the count) as it was thought Biden needed to win there – his wins in Georgia and Arizona foiled it.

     Harris is unlikely to win in Georgia and Arizona – so has to win Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania (last to complete its count).

     Already Musk is raising doubt about Pennsylvania using his X to promote a conspiracy theory (lies).
     • SPC 2.1.1

       2 November 2024 at 4:36 pm

       Musk and disinformation about the election.

       https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9vnyl2jnpjo
3. KJT 3

   2 November 2024 at 8:43 am

   Economics is in 'disarray', having placed efficiency before ethics and human well-being, says Nobel laureate – ABC News

   Mainstream economics is in "disarray."

   It ignores the reality of power, it neglects questions of equity, and its policy recommendations can be "little more than a license for plunder."

   That's the opinion of Angus Deaton, the British-American economist who won the economics version of the Nobel Prize in 2015.

   The 78-year-old professor says he's recently been changing his mind about views he's long held and it's a "discomfiting process."

   But will his colleagues listen to him?
   • AB 3.1

     2 November 2024 at 10:48 am

     Good link, thanks. Definitely time to get the teaching of economics out of the ideologically-committed business schools and into the humanities departments – spread across politics, history, human geography and anthropology. And maybe (channeling Steve Keen) engineering/system dynamics as well.
     • tWig 3.1.1

       2 November 2024 at 12:49 pm

       Once again, recommend 'Vulture Capitalism’, by the journalist Grace Blakely, as an excellent economic explainer for what global money is doing to society and government. I borrowed this as an ebook from my library.
4. joe90 4

   2 November 2024 at 11:03 am

   But her emails knocked this off the front page and the memory hole took it from there.

   /

   Now, the generation that came of age during the #MeToo era is turning to social media for information about candidates and elections — 39 percent of young adults say they frequently get their news from TikTok, according to Pew Research. This week, many said on the social network they were shocked by the former president’s words and confused why the episode wasn’t a dealbreaker in 2016.

   “I don’t think any of my friends had heard it,” said Kate Sullivan, a 21-year-old student in Ohio who heard the tape for the first time on her TikTok For You feed this week. “We all felt equally shocked.”

   […]

   Brigid Quinn, a 15-year-old in Georgia, knew that Trump had been accused of making sexist comments, she said. But she had never heard the words he actually said — including the ‘grab them by the pussy’ quote. She “didn’t understand how people thought this was normal.”

   https://archive.li/MAGYV (wapo)
5. adam 5

   2 November 2024 at 11:12 am

   If it's not one dick burning up the planet with Jet Fuel, it's another.
6. Dennis Frank 6

   2 November 2024 at 11:14 am

   Richard Harman analyses the deal:

   In a major international breakthrough, New Zealand has negotiated a free trade agreement with Saudi Arabia and other Arabian Peninsula countries, which includes a provision requiring them to uphold the UN Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women. Trade Minister Todd McClay signed the agreement in Doha overnight.

   Seven Arabian Gulf states that make up the Gulf Co-operation Council … the agreement provides that 99% of New Zealand’s exports to the Gulf States will be tariff-free within 10 years. When combined with the recently concluded free trade agreement with the United Arab Emirates, 51% of New Zealand’s exports to the region will be tariff-free from day one.

   “I think this deal should be seen as much as about what more we get to sell them as the tariffs we’re saving now because it’s a very, very big market,” McLay said. “The lamb market coming straight on the back of the UAE one is really good news for our sheep farmers… Although the European Free Trade Agreement members have a free trade agreement with the Gulf States, New Zealand is the first major agricultural products exporter to complete an agreement. The Gulf States is one of the most food-import-reliant geographic regions in the world. They only fulfil 15% of their food demand from local production. This means that food security cannot be achieved through growing more food. For the Gulf States food security is about getting food imports to where they are needed. New Zealand’s biggest export to the GCC states is dairy products, where we have 27% of the market, exceeded only by the European Union, which has 45%.

   New Zealand has scored its biggest wins in the non-tariff sections of the agreement. The big breakthrough has been in a section on the rights of women. The GCC has only two current FTAs with non-Middle Eastern advanced economies, including the European Free Trade Association countries (Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland) and Singapore. Neither of those agreements has any provisions for gender equality.

   [There's also] a recognition of worker rights. “It includes recognition and commitment to International Labour Organisation standards,” McClay said. “And for the first time for the GCC, we have they’ve agreed so that we now have a section on women’s economic empowerment where we commit to all sides and an international agreement against all forms of discrimination against women. “It’s not something they’ve ever done before, but we were able to negotiate and get that in. “As far as New Zealanders were concerned, this was an important concern for us.” There are also chapters on environmental standards and, as is becoming the practice in New Zealand trade agreements, a carve-out for the Treaty of Waitangi, allowing New Zealand to legislate to comply with that even where doing so might clash with the Free Trade Agreement. https://www.politik.co.nz/todd-mcclay-wins-breakthrough-for-women-in-saudi-arabia/ | Politik

   It does indeed seem a diplomatic victory, but scepticism also makes sense – if they allow their cultural tradition to prevail, how can enforcement happen? International law? Pull the other leg. A cynic would presume the arabs aren't acting in good faith.
   • lprent 6.1

     2 November 2024 at 11:28 am

     A bit excessive on the quoting.

     The idea with quoting is to get the crucial bits and not to infringe copyright. When I get back to a desktop, i will try to remember to trim it.

     Which means you are causing me extra work…
     • Incognito 6.1.1

       2 November 2024 at 12:03 pm

       As copy & paste goes, DF did a shit job at it, which to me demonstrates his laziness that’s exacerbated by his click-bait style of ‘commentary’.
       • tWig 6.1.1.1

         2 November 2024 at 12:46 pm

         All these addenda sound non-binding, rather a wish-list. In which case, they are the parsley on the roast, just dressing.

         Nothing in there on what the Saudis get from us. This was not one way, and we may find that there's a freedom to enter and a freedom to buy NZ land on the Saudi side.
     • Dennis Frank 6.1.2

       2 November 2024 at 1:30 pm

       Sorry for that. I did make a serious attempt to eliminate the non-essentials but any editor may differ on such. Seems to me the human rights dimension is genuinely innovative for the arabs. Could even be seen as revolutionary. The msm will focus on the dollar signs in their imagination, of course…
   • Mountain Tui 6.2

     2 November 2024 at 2:53 pm

     Saw Luxon the other day get so excited talking about Qatar money and how he's going to give them a deal sheet so they can buy NZ assets –

     [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awc8_eceqBA%5D
7. Mac1 7

   2 November 2024 at 12:23 pm

   Very clever, well sung and sharp satire. Donald Trump gets Queened. Bohemian Rhapsody anew.
   • dv 7.1

     2 November 2024 at 1:23 pm

     That is cool and worth a listen.
     • Drowsy M. Kram 7.1.1

       2 November 2024 at 2:20 pm

       Thanks, looked and listened all the way through – hope the message goes viral.
   • SPC 7.2

     2 November 2024 at 4:24 pm

     In 1618, Ferdinand King of Bohemia (future Holy Roman emperor Ferdinand II), attempted to impose Roman Catholic absolutism on his domains, and the Protestant nobles of both Bohemia and Austria rose up in rebellion. Ferdinand won after a five-year struggle.

     Thus began the so called 30 year war (20% of Europeans are said to have died)

     https://blogs.icrc.org/law-and-policy/2017/05/23/thirty-years-war-first-modern-war/

     https://www.britannica.com/event/Thirty-Years-War

     Gilead, a hand maids tale of "Promise Keeper" man as POTUS and his men deciding whats right, called the Christian nation dominion subversion of the March 4 constitutional republic of the district of Columbia of George Washington.

     Little wonder voting is about c55-35 males for Trump and females for Harris.
8. tWig 8

   2 November 2024 at 12:57 pm

   A late October national poll from USA Today/Suffolk University found that women resoundingly back Harris over Trump, 53% to 36%, a “mirror image” of men’s support for Trump over Harris, 53% to 37%. A September poll from Quinnipiac University similarly found a 26-point gender gap. An unknown – but certainly sizable – number of women are seeing this gender gap in their own relationships.

   From The Guardian, pointing up the massive gender gap. The outcome in the US is vote-cancelling within couples. I remember when my dad voted for Muldoon and my mum voted for Labour when I was young, much the same effect.
   • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1

     2 November 2024 at 2:05 pm

     European Greens ask Jill Stein to stand down and endorse Kamala Harris [1 Nov 2024]
     US Green party leader urged to withdraw from presidential race to prevent Donald Trump victory

     If Trump re-takes Pennsylvania, could be game over for US GHG emissions mitigation.

     What Trump’s Environmental Record Says About a Second Term
     [1 Nov 2024]
     Mr. Trump and his allies envision a second term that would try to permanently eliminate protections for air, water and climate.

     Trump promises a rollback of the green energy revolution [31 Oct 2024]
     A pro-fossil fuel agenda dominates the GOP nominee's climate change policies

     US election: Trump is threatening to turn back the tide on America’s environmental laws and reverse climate progress [2 Nov 2024]
     Gutting regulatory capacity, reducing public support for emergency preparedness (for example, by privatising the Federal Emergency Management Agency), and pulling the US out of the Paris climate agreement. These actions all reveal a shocking naivete, as though the era of environmental tragedy were purely a thing of the past.

     But in 2023 alone, the US suffered a record 28 climate and weather-related disasters – shattering the previous record of 22 such disasters in a given year. Each caused more than US$1 billion (£770 million) in damage, with a total price tag north of US$90 billion.

     These figures come from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which Project 2025 says “should be dismantled and many of its functions eliminated, sent to other agencies, privatised, or placed under the control of states and territories.”
     • Kay 8.1.1

       2 November 2024 at 2:22 pm

       I had no idea she was still running. Even when one is trying to tune out of it all, it's impossible to avoid the US election, but I've never heard her name come up. Hopefully logic will prevail.
   • gsays 8.2

     2 November 2024 at 5:35 pm

     I spent a day with my 22 yr old son today, helping him build a 52 metre fence.

     At lunch he was telling me about Trump being on the Joe Rogan podcast. My boy isn't a political animal and I'm paraphrasing now; Trump came across as his own man, charismatic, unscripted and marching to his own beat. Not a talking head that tiptoes around.

     Rogan has invited Harris several times but she comes back with conditions that prevent that from happening (only 1 hour, for the podcast to happen elsewhere etc).

     Vance has been on Rogan too and I understand he comes across as a regular Joe (boom boom) and approachable.

     None of this negates all that has been said upthread here today on Open Mike but with most media in this country beating the same echo chamber drum, I think we can get seduced and end up with a nasty surprise, like last time Trump was elected.

     Edit; I thought I would have a look at some numbers.
     Apparently 14.5M folk subscribe to JRE on Spotify, 16.4M on YouTube and 18.9M on his instagram.
     https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2024/03/24/how-many-people-listen-to-joe-rogan-data/
     Here is a link to voting intentions of listeners to JRE.
     https://www.edisonresearch.com/who-joe-rogan-listeners-are-likely-to-support-in-the-election/#:~:text=Rogan's%20audience%20skews%20overwhelmingly%20male,critical%2018%2D34%20age%20range.
9. Sanctuary 9

   2 November 2024 at 2:37 pm

   So Tucker Carlson says he was attacked by a demon in the night that left him with scratches and claw marks on his shoulder and I can't stop thinking that if his wife believes that he is a very lucky man.
   • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1

     2 November 2024 at 2:45 pm

     Bear in mind that Tucker is competing with Candace Owens for clicks.

     Tucker Carlson claims a ‘demon’ attack left him bleeding in bed
     [The Guardian, 1 Nov 2024]
     Former Fox News host says he was ‘physically mauled’ by unknown entity in assault that left him with ‘claw marks’

     In a preview clip on YouTube, Carlson is asked by John Heers of the non-profit First Things Foundation if he believed that “the presence of evil is kickstarting people to wonder about the good”.

     “That’s what happened to me. I had a direct experience with it,” said Carlson.

     Asked if he was referring to journalism, Carlson responded: “No, in my bed at night. I got attacked while I was asleep with my wife and four dogs and mauled, physically mauled.”

     Carlson, who said he still bears the scars, said his assailant was a “demon”. He added: “Or by something unseen that left claw marks on my sides.”
     • Dennis Frank 9.1.1

       2 November 2024 at 3:23 pm

       I admire his courage. Any guy who admits to being asleep in bed with his wife and 4 dogs on mass media obviously has transcended the need for respect, reputation, mana, etc. I had no idea he was that advanced.

       Didn't put him beyond the reach of demons though, did it? Having been thoroughly bible-bashed as a child in the 1950s, I'm always aware that God created the devil for a purpose, and I still live in hope that some christian will explain it to me one day.

       The Bible didn't say that he created demons though. Perhaps they entered through a black hole in the christian psyche? If Tucker learns the right incantation, he can order them to return from whence they came. Someone ought to tell the guy this.
       • Visubversa 9.1.1.1

         2 November 2024 at 4:26 pm

         Maybe one of his 4 dogs got a flea bite and had a big scratch to catch it and Tucker got in the way. Perhaps he was too drugged or drunk, or tired to wake up at the time?
         • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1.1.1.1

           2 November 2024 at 4:44 pm

           Maybe one of his 4 dogs…

           But the monetising potential of 'demon' beats Occam's razor paws down.
         • Mike the Lefty 9.1.1.1.2

           2 November 2024 at 5:27 pm

           It was a black shiny demon.

           He said "play the best song in the world – or I'll eat your soul!"

           Carlson couldn't, so the demon started, but gave up quickly after he found how horrible Carlson Tucker's soul really was, and just left a few scratches.

           What a bringdown for a demon when you find out that your victim is worse than you!

           Acknowledgements to Tenacious D and Dave Grohl.
       • Psych Nurse 9.1.1.2

         2 November 2024 at 5:36 pm

         I admire his courage for disclosing his hallucinations.
       • mikesh 9.1.1.3

         2 November 2024 at 5:41 pm

         Without "evil" there cannot be "good". There would no way of distiguishing one from the other if "evil" did not exist.
   • Incognito 9.2

     2 November 2024 at 7:22 pm

     His conscience attacked him. I think there’s a movie in it.
     • Psych Nurse 9.2.1

       2 November 2024 at 7:27 pm

       Ah! it was Damian not demon.
       • Incognito 9.2.1.1

         2 November 2024 at 7:39 pm

         LOL.

         Quentin wants the rights to make From Dust to Dog Tucker.
10. Psych Nurse 10

    2 November 2024 at 7:53 pm

    I can see an Omen in there, somewhere.
    • Incognito 10.1

      2 November 2024 at 8:07 pm

      Yup, lot’s of static noise, or was that that other movie, Politicgeist?
      • Shanreagh 10.1.1

        2 November 2024 at 8:58 pm

        Goodness me, Psych Nurse and Incognito those are brilliant with an extra special award for the superlative punny use of 'Politicgeist' for Incognito.

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