A new type of coup?

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1. Draco T Bastard 1

   13 November 2011 at 5:59 pm

   The “political coups” in Italy and Greece and the suspension of elections in these countries…are incompatible with democratic principles.

   Similar to how democracy was detrimental to the farmers in Canterbury.
   • Jenny 1.1

     13 November 2011 at 8:38 pm

     Indeed Draco, the ‘political’ coup is not completely unknown.
2. Bill 2

   13 November 2011 at 6:12 pm

   The ‘technocrats’ aren’t going to be doing anything the elected parliamentarians weren’t going to be doing. They (the elected parliamentarians) weren’t listening to the citizenry anyway.

   In Spain, it looks as though the left leaning government is going to get voted out and a right leaning government will be established. And they will follow the same austerity programme as the ousted government.

   And to coin the phrase in the post, that’s ‘not what democracy looks like’.

   Whether it be appointed technocrats or elected representatives, the presciptions are the same. Maybe it is hoped that a government of technocrats can sell the idea that TINA to austerity; that it is a necessary and objectively scientific solution.

   With more and more people, from across wider sections of the populations in more and countries hitting the streets and, in some cases realising that they need to make demands of themselves and each other, rather than of any elected representative or technocrat…well, we might yet get to see and experience ‘what democracy looks like’.

   A situation is unfolding where it is becoming ever more clear that the lines of demarcation in the class war are, essentially everyone v bankers and their lackeys. And social democratic governments have exhibited an overly enthusiastic willingness to be banker’s lackeys.

   In the end, while democratic facades are being lowered, they were only facades. Nothing deserving of the term ‘democracy’ has, or is being lost. And now that the wee technocratic man behind the curtain is showing himself, well who knows what might happen next…
3. AAMC 3

   13 November 2011 at 6:33 pm

   And it transpires the new leaders of Italy, Greece and the ECB all have one thing in common, they all worked at Glodman Sacs!

   http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/11/financial-coup-detat-in-making.html?m=1
4. marsman 4

   13 November 2011 at 6:53 pm

   Goldman Sachs also own shares in Steven Joyce’s ex media-empire, and beneficiary of his taxpayer funded $40 million largesse, Mediaworks…. and they want to increase their holding. Keep the creeps out of NZ!!! I reckon.
5. marsman 5

   13 November 2011 at 6:57 pm

   Did John Key not work for Goldman Sachs as well?
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     13 November 2011 at 7:21 pm

     Merill Lynch actually, one of the leading investment banks and primary dealers. Until their derivatives trading sunk them and they had to be taken over by (a now struggling) Bank of America.
6. Colonial Viper 6

   13 November 2011 at 7:25 pm

   On the Keiser Report (search You Tube) Max Keiser has been detailing the progress of the Global Bankster Occupation for well over a year.

   Well, its now a grim reality of modern fascism for tens of millions of citizens in what were formerly democratic sovereign countries.

   This ultimate Inside Job has been many years in the making.

   Feed the bankers, starve the people.
   • conorjoe 6.1

     13 November 2011 at 7:39 pm

     ay viper, awesome to have the tools to watch events play out in realtime, past and present all at once
7. Jimmie 7

   13 November 2011 at 8:10 pm

   Definitely a bit dodgy – however I would point out that if the respective governments had acted responsibly over the years and not borrowed like there was no tomorrow then this situation wouldn’t have arisen.

   All governments should have to live within their means – perhaps even have a legislative limit on the size of deficits (if any) that they can run year by year.

   People have to live within their means with their household budgets – why should the government be any different?
   • Craig Glen Eden 7.1

     13 November 2011 at 8:28 pm

     Oh that it was that simple, its not that these Governments have just over spent, the financial banking system has been set up to take over these nations assets and if John Key gets his way we wont be to far behind.
   • Colonial Viper 7.2

     13 November 2011 at 8:52 pm

     All governments should have to live within their means

     The ‘means’ of these countries having been slashed due to the top 1% giving themselves tax cut after tax cut, under the guide of neoliberal ideology.

     Which is exactly when the top 1% started to help governments dig themselves into deeper and deeper debt.

     Now for the final phase – expropriation of all public assets into the hands of a few under the terms of nation-wide mortgagee sales.
   • Galeandra 7.3

     13 November 2011 at 9:24 pm

     Over recent years about 65% of Greece’s fiscal overshoot was caused by capital flight from the periphery back to the centre, as with the other piigs. That’s what happens with unequally strong partners in monetary unions, as Argentina discovered.

     In the same way Fisher & Paykel off-shored their plant from NZ to Mexico to save money, and NZ ended up borrowing to supplement tax take and pay for the ensuing unemployment etc. That example is a gross simplification, but raises doubts about fiscal irresponsibilitybeing the sole cause.

     Paul Krugman’s NYT blog has cited research demonstrating this more than once recently, though I haven’t got time to search out links for you.
     • Colonial Viper 7.3.1

       13 November 2011 at 9:29 pm

       Quite right. The wealthy cutting tax rates for themselves has not been the sole (or even main) cause of governments losing their revenue streams.

       The selling off of profitable assets and the offshoring of GDP and capital (enabled co-incidentally by neoliberal globalisation)…all done by the top 1%…has also helped collapse sovereign countries fiscal outlooks.
       • Gosman 7.3.1.1

         14 November 2011 at 10:39 am

         Where is your evidence that Greece engaged in neo-liberal economic policies over the past few decades? Certainly I don’t believe they have sold off much in the way of State assets.
   • AAMC 7.4

     13 November 2011 at 10:36 pm

     Don’t forget Germany was gaming the system by suppression wage growth to bolster competitiveness and as mentioned below, Greece’s oligarchs avoiding paying their tax bill.

     If they were in a position to default it could all be put to bed Argentina style or as Iceland has recently shown. It’s the structure of the Euro that’s the problem, and the technocrats who run it and are wedded to defunct economic thinking.

     As Prof Steve Keen says. Neo classical economists, or for that matter all economists, don’t understand the economy. They understand a model of the economy, and we progess one funeral at a time, as their ideogies die with them.

     Just good to see the #ows movement resulting in the walk out of Harvard economics lectures in protest of only being taught one model of the economy.

     Can I suggest following Steve Keen… Below interviewed on RT

     http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2011/11/13/capital-account-interview-2/

     All this rhetoric of Austerity we will live to regret!
     • Afewknowthetruth 7.4.1

       13 November 2011 at 11:16 pm

       AAMC

       ‘all economists, don’t understand the economy.’

       Spot on.

       ‘They understand a model of the economy, and we progess one funeral at a time, as their ideogies die with them.’

       Reminds me of a cartoon in Paul Bieleski’s book: ‘It’s an economic model. It’s not supposed to work!’

       I don’t see much indication that their ideologies are dying. All we are offered is more of the same; all the strategies that are guaranteed to fail. .

       The standard terms was BAU: busines-as-usual.

       However, in view of the environmental meltdown and social meltdown that is taking place (plus the energetic meltdown that is impending) I believe the term coined by Guy McPherson is now much more apprpriate: DAU: disaster-as-usual.
       • Draco T Bastard 7.4.1.1

         13 November 2011 at 11:31 pm

         I don’t see much indication that their ideologies are dying. All we are offered is more of the same; all the strategies that are guaranteed to fail. .

         Just what I was thinking so we have to question why these failed economic theories keep getting used as the basis for the economy. The answer is, I believe, quite simple – follow the money. The people benefiting are also the people propagating these false theories.
         • AAMC 7.4.1.1.1

           14 November 2011 at 9:10 am

           They’re not overtly dying, but there is an increasing platform from which to undermine them, and of coarse as Austerity continues to both bankrupt and foster social unrest in Europe and around the world, this has the potential to kill the neo-lib project, but it won’t give up without a fight, it’s a religion.

           People like Steve Keen (please watch his more accessible youtube clips), Krugman, Roubini, Stiglitz, will hopefully get more air time. Keen via Economics and Graeber via anthropology, both promoting Mesopotamian style debt jubilee to write off debt and reset the system, will this gain traction?

           The catch is putting the environmental equation into their economic thinking. Steglitz constantly proclaims that investment in green technology should be the New Deal Pt2 stimulous.
           I believe Naomi Kleins next book will look at this, here’s a teaser article I haven’t had a chance to read yet.

           http://www.thenation.com/article/164497/capitalism-vs-climate
8. Huginn 8

   13 November 2011 at 8:23 pm

   from the Financial Times last week:

   The real Greek tragedy – its rapacious oligarchs
   By Misha Glenny

   Glenny argues that:

   one of the most intractable root causes of the Greek tragedy [is] – crime and corruption [and that as] the new Greek government struggles to convince Europe of its resolve to cut the country’s bloated public sector, it also has to decide whether to face down the real domestic threat to Greece’s stability: the network of oligarch families who control large parts of the Greek business, the financial sector, the media and, indeed, politicians.

   http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/618e57d6-0937-11e1-a20c-00144feabdc0.html
9. tony 9

   13 November 2011 at 8:25 pm

   “This is not what democracy looks like.”
   This *is* what democracy looks like. Bourgeois democratic states will always do such things when necessary, as history shows.
10. Vicky32 10

    13 November 2011 at 8:49 pm

    I have just heard a man on the BBC WS (Fintan O’Toole of the Irish Times) saying pretty much the same thing as the author of this post says. Then a studio person asked “is he right?” Hell yeah he’s right!
11. hoom 11

    13 November 2011 at 9:04 pm

    This is no different to the firing of Environment Canterbury as far as I can see.
    We just rolled over & let them do it.
    I would be completely unsurprised to see a Nact 2nd term roll out this ‘successful model’ to various other regions of NZ.
    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      13 November 2011 at 11:34 pm

      I would be completely unsurprised to see a Nact 2nd term roll out this ‘successful model’ to various other regions of NZ.

      That and the SuperShitty that removes democratic control of the cities assets from the councils to unelected, government appointed yes men followed by privatisation.
12. Afewknowthetruth 12

    13 November 2011 at 10:58 pm

    The game was lost long before women were even given the vote.

    The moment business interests succeeded in getting laws changed to give corporations the same rights as individuals (or more rights than individuals) in the 1800s in the US humanity was effectively screwed.

    So-called western democracies are a sham -providing the mere facade of people having a say while all the real decisions are made by the corporations and money-lenders who pull the strings of governments. Elections are essentially a mechanism for people to choose the puppet whose string will be pulled (though some puppets are greater opportinists than others.)

    ‘I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. … corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.’ – President Lincoln

    http://www.globalissues.org/article/234/the-rise-of-corporations

    And bankers have decided which wars will be fought (and often who would win) for the past 200 years, of course, depending on which resource-rich nation was next in line for looting.

    Now that we are post peak oil and in the early stages of environmental meltdown living standards are bound to fall worldwide (the poorest nations first, of course).

    Those at the top will undoubtedly do whatever it takes to ensure they are the last to be affected and that the ‘cannon-fodder get pushed off the cliff first’. The psychotic sociopaths who tend to end up in power have always behaved that way.

    The only question is: how much hardship will people accept before they revolt en mass?

    Clearly people in NZ are not suffering anything like enough yet, so we will have to witness a substantial fall in living standards before the masses wake up.

    At this stage I’m still going with 2015 as the year when most current economic arrangements will have imploded, and the end of western civilisation some time between 2020 and 2030.

    There is an excellent analysis of resources depletion, global depression and energy decline here:

    http://news.silverseek.com/SilverSeek/1318263505.php

    (Take particular note of the graphs on EROI and the nations past peak in the middle of the article.)

    I’m sure there will plenty of people who will refuse to look at the link and will decide that all we need do is think positively for everything to come right.
    • AAMC 12.1

      14 November 2011 at 9:12 am

      One of the main things in the sights of the #OWS movement is corporate personhood. Tar Sands pipeline was delayed and will probably be killed the other day.

      Lets celebrate the victories and have a moment of optimism that now is the beginning of the change required.
13. lefty 13

    14 November 2011 at 7:41 am

    There is no question about what the problem is. The question is what are we going to do about it?

    One thing is for sure. Voting for more men in suits is not going to help.

    We have wasted nearly a century, both here and in other developed countries, on social democrats who always turn out to be the B team for the 1%.

    We need a truly democratic political movement that is prepared to totally reject the norms of politics as we know them.
14. travellerev 14

    14 November 2011 at 9:41 am

    Wow, this blog is sounding more and more like mine everyday. Now say after me: 19 young Saudi Arabs with box cutters could not have pulled off 911.
    Bankers are taking over the world:
    “We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promise of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The super-national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.”
    -David Rockefeller, Bilderberger meeting, 1991

    By the way Monti is a Bilderberger too!
    • ropata 14.1

      14 November 2011 at 12:45 pm

      this was a stunning article from New Scientist mag:
      Revealed: the Capitalist Network the Runs the World

      h/t travellerev

      kinda puts the lie to a common tory refrain that democracy is “subverted” when the unwashed messes vote for government “largesse”
      • jonty 14.1.1

        14 November 2011 at 4:03 pm

        that looks really interesting. one major flaw though is that the model just uses “owners”. for instance State Street is one of the largest custodians in the world and hence shows up at #5. In reality it acts as only as the legal holder of particular equities – the beneficial owners are millions of real people who have pension schemes, mutual funds etc. While there’s an element of real truth in the study the true ownership will be way wider than suggested. In fact on that list I cant see any companies who don’t have significant custodial assets where other people own the assets. Not the entity listed.

        But yes, in general I agree corporations wield significant power and usually exercise for their own good rather than the broader good..
    • jonty 14.2

      14 November 2011 at 3:57 pm

      prob with that quote is that there is no attribution, anywhere. Check it out on Snopes. Also, if the bilderbergers are as secretive as suggested, how come all these juicy quotes come out?

      Sounds to me like the sort of quote a survivalist apocolyptic cult would invent. Wait for the black helicopters. Watch out for jews. Obama is a muslim.
15. Thom. 15

    14 November 2011 at 9:47 am

    There certainly was a coup in both Greece and Italy.
    This is receiving widespread comment at the moment, but most articles are referring to a ‘banker’s coup’.
    But of course, neither the markets or commercial institutions can do more by their collective than forment a situation where pressure exists – it was the ECB (and, I’d argue, the EU & IMF completing the triangle) who implemented the overthrow of the governments, installing key figures from their own ranks.
    Compare it to the situation in Ireland, where all the four main parties are fully supportive of the EU/ECB there ws no reason to intervene to the extent that has happened with Greece and Italy – the public anger removed one government and implemented another, largely identical one after their election. But where did Ireland’s problems come from ? Spending was unsustainable, certainly, but the public debt was fairly low. The deposits and debts of their private banks were guaranteed. Most of these debts were owed to German, French & Austrian banks – if the Irish banks reneged, these european institutions would almost certainly have collapsed (money trails of over 200 billion have been linked up originating in the european banks, passing through the Irish and moving from these into private property speculation both in Ireland and abroad – the german banks had lobbied the Irish govt. to waive regualtion to create a field for reckless inveatment they were forbidden in germany).
    At the time the ECB said they did not approve of this guarantee, but went ahead to support it, and when it term expired they directed it be extended (twice) One ex-govt. minister has since admitted that the ECB had instrucetd the Irish govt. on the initial guantee -demanding that the banks be supported.
    So the common agency at work in what has happened in each country is the European Central Bank. In each case a local climate has been created where their dictates are implemented. And democracy has been ‘suspended’. The new Regime in Italy has been said to remain for at least 18 months. Place your country in a similar scenario – how would you feel ? And now both from within and outside the eurozone (Obama and George Osborne, amongst others) key political figures are demanding that all member states surrender their taxation spending sovereignties to the ECB. Can a Nation be said to exist under these conditions ? Yes, your hand may be tied by external economic citrcumstance, but this is a permanent, unretractable forfeiture.
    Fair enough, this isn’t a racial empire subjecting it’s neighbours like the 1930s, but it is an anti-democratic, Will-To-Power edging towards totalitarianism.
16. felix 16

    14 November 2011 at 10:43 am

    Gosman attributing to other commenters the view that capitalism is “evil” in 5…4…3…
17. JonL 17

    14 November 2011 at 7:13 pm

    As Paul Krugman commented “The other thing you need to know is that in the face of the current crisis, austerity has been a failure everywhere it has been tried: no country with significant debts has managed to slash its way back into the good graces of the financial markets. “
    • Colonial Viper 17.1

      14 November 2011 at 7:32 pm

      And that’s because a starving victim gets weaker the more you starve him, and the weaker the victim gets the more the Bankster criminals lay into him.

      A lot of the banks are set up to make big profits when whole sovereign nations economically fail. (Except for the minor issue of counterparty risk of course).
18. joe90 18

    14 November 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Silvio Berlusconi to allies: we should ‘resume a path to government’

    “I share your spirit and I hope we can resume the path to government together,” he wrote in a letter sent to a political party from Italy’s far right, which was holding a national congress in Turin on Sunday.
    Mr Berlusconi told supporters of La Destra, which grew out of a split in Italy’s neo-fascist movement, that he was “proud” of what he had achieved during his third and last term of office.
    “I regard with pride what we managed to achieve in the last three and a half years, which were marked by an unprecedented international crisis,” he told the party.

    Of course die menschen over at Stormfront are (google cache) delighted .

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