An idea that could catch on

51 comments on “An idea that could catch on ”

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1. BM 1

   6 July 2015 at 1:13 pm

   Those figures look a bit suss

   http://www.cnbc.com/id/42099554
   • r0b 1.1

     6 July 2015 at 1:43 pm

     Agreed (and re Phil below) – the figures look closer to total worth than bailout received. This reference:
     http://www.cnbc.com/id/42099554
     puts the Citicorp bailout at $476.2 billion. So I think the numbers are wrong but the point (massive bailouts for banks vs Greece) stands.
   • r0b 1.2

     6 July 2015 at 2:02 pm

     Hmmm, looking it to it and it gets murkier. Senator Warren:

     During the financial crisis, Congress bailed out the big banks with hundreds of billions of dollars in taxpayer money; and that’s a lot of money. But the biggest money for the biggest banks was never voted on by Congress. Instead, between 2007 and 2009, the Fed provided over $13 trillion in emergency lending to just a handful of large financial institutions. That’s nearly 20 times the amount authorized in the TARP bailout.

     “Now, let’s be clear, those Fed loans were a bailout too. Nearly all the money went to too-big-to-fail institutions. For example, in one emergency lending program, the Fed put out $9 trillion and over two-thirds of the money went to just three institutions: Citigroup, Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch.

     That would be consistent with the figures cited above. No time to look in to this further just now.
     • Phil 1.2.1

       6 July 2015 at 4:43 pm

       What ever Warren’s figures are, they’re also not looking kosher.

       The total balance sheet of the Fed between 2007 and 2009 never got above $2.3 trillion, so where they’re supposed to have lent $9 trillion to is perplexing.
       http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_recenttrends.htm

       The only thing I can think of is that the Fed upped its game on short term ‘repurchase agreements’, which are a bog-standard form of liquidity management that banks use. If you’re in the middle of a liquidity crisis this is exactly the form of activity that a central bank is supposed to be doing.
       • Sacha 1.2.1.1

         6 July 2015 at 9:22 pm

         How much QE did the Fed indulge in, and when?
         • Phil 1.2.1.1.1

           7 July 2015 at 1:10 pm

           https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing#US_QE1.2C_QE2.2C_and_QE3

           According to the chart; $2b by 2014.
2. Lanthanide 2

   6 July 2015 at 1:18 pm

   The original photo was from December 31st 2013.

   So I guess it didn’t catch on.
   • r0b 2.1

     6 July 2015 at 1:44 pm

     Yet…
   • te reo putake 2.2

     6 July 2015 at 1:52 pm

     Er, if they’re doing it again, doesn’t that mean it did catch on?
     • Lanthanide 2.2.1

       6 July 2015 at 3:33 pm

       If you have any evidence they are “doing it again”, then please present it.

       So far the only evidence is a photo that was first posted in 2013, and then someone who has just now re-tweeted it. Generally that behaviour is called “necro-ing” or “grave-digging” in online forums.
       • te reo putake 2.2.1.1

         6 July 2015 at 3:54 pm

         Have you read the post?
         • Lanthanide 2.2.1.1.1

           6 July 2015 at 3:59 pm

           Yes. I even clicked on the original tweet, that this one has re-tweeted, where it says this:

           In Portugal, the binmen are on strike, so people are leaving their Christmas rubbish outside the banks.

           So no evidence that anyone is “doing it again”, then.

           I assume that if I re-tweeted a picture of Obama winning the 2012 election, you would blindly assume it was a current event, too?
           • te reo putake 2.2.1.1.1.1

             6 July 2015 at 4:06 pm

             And they were on strike in January 2014, so if you are correct that they were doing it in 2012, then they are, indeed, doing it again.
             • weka …

               6 July 2015 at 4:32 pm

               I think the doing it again refers to leaving the rubbish at the bank (not the binmen going on strike).
               • te reo putake …

                 6 July 2015 at 4:50 pm

                 Yep. Though a quick trawl found the same photo in reference to a strike in January 2014, which of course may be actually be a continuation of the same stoppage Lanth referred to up above in Dec 2013.

                 However, I think the point of the tweet (and possibly the reason for the reference to it in the post) is that it’s a bloody good idea which should be repeated as often as possible. I seriously doubt the tweeter was actually hoping some people in NZ would waste part of an afternoon on an entirely pedantic point that didn’t really need to be made.
                 • Lanthanide …

                   6 July 2015 at 4:53 pm

                   Takes two to tango, TRP.
                   • te reo putake …

                     6 July 2015 at 5:01 pm

                     Fuck off, lanth. You’re the one making a big deal about fuck all. My original reply was to suggest that if they’re doing it again in 2015 (as the tweet suggests) then, er, they’re doing it again. Nothing to do with the photo used to illustrate the phenomenon.

                     Now if turns out they’re not doing it in 2015, then you might have a point, but the age of the photo doesn’t prove anything about that possibility either way.
                   • Lanthanide …

                     6 July 2015 at 5:04 pm

                     @ TRP:

                     Now if turns out they’re not doing it in 2015, then you might have a point, but the age of the photo doesn’t prove anything about that possibility either way.

                     Correct, which is why I asked if you have any evidence if they’re doing it again.

                     If you don’t want to provide any evidence, that’s fine. You don’t even have to reply to my comment, I’m not forcing you to.
                   • te reo putake []

                     6 July 2015 at 5:08 pm

                     Mate, there’s a tweet that claims they are. That’s what I was saying. You say 2013, the tweet says 2015. So they’re doing it again, unless, you know, they’re not. It’s not my claim, take it up with the tweeter, if you got time after you’ve finished wanking.
                   • Lanthanide …

                     6 July 2015 at 5:13 pm

                     Nothing in the original tweet says “again”. In fact the wording in the tweet is identical to the previous one, except they removed the word “Christmas”. The motivation by this tweeter may be to mislead people into thinking that this in an on-going event in Portugal right now, even when it isn’t. People do things like that on the internet to get attention.

                     Like I said, if I reposted a picture from Obama winning the election in 2012, would you automatically assume it was a current event?
                   • te reo putake []

                     6 July 2015 at 5:16 pm

                     I assumed nothing. Here’s what I wrote, failed pedant:

                     “Er, if they’re doing it again, doesn’t that mean it did catch on?”

                     It’s question, not a statement.

                     And, if you thought it was bogus, why didn’t you just say so? Is it because you’re a wanker?
                   • Lanthanide …

                     6 July 2015 at 5:21 pm

                     I didn’t, and still don’t, think it is “bogus” that this event could be happening right now.

                     I asked for more evidence if that is what is happening, and pointed out that the evidence to hand (a re-tweeted photo from 2013) is not convincing.

                     If you think I’m a blowhard boring pedant, there’s nothing forcing you to reply to my comment at all. Frankly I don’t know why you’re still going.
                   • te reo putake …

                     6 July 2015 at 5:25 pm

                     “If you think I’m a blowhard boring pedant, there’s nothing forcing you to reply to my comment at all. Frankly I don’t know why you’re still going.”

                     Because its vaguely funny showing what a blowhard boring pedant you can be. Not that its news, of course.
             • Lanthanide …

               6 July 2015 at 4:49 pm

               “doing” is a present tense verb.

               If you’re saying they did it in 2012, and did it again in 2014, the correct term to use is “they did it again”, or possibly “they did it twice”.

               Your comment at 2.2 said “doing it again”. If you used the wrong word, just say that.
               • te reo putake …

                 6 July 2015 at 5:05 pm

                 Ha! My favourite kind of pedant … one that gets it wrong.
           • adam 2.2.1.1.1.2

             6 July 2015 at 4:25 pm

             I’d never seen this before and rather enjoyed the picture, as I don’t live in a bubble of “online”

             And so what it got reposted, again, it was enjoyable to see. And in the full context of post, rather fun.

             But instead we get Lanthanide with some tiresome miss reading of the post, coupled with an ongoing fetish with being right.
             • Lanthanide …

               6 July 2015 at 4:46 pm

               I didn’t mis-read anything. TRP is the one claiming they are doing it again. The post doesn’t make any such claim. So far he has failed to produce any evidence to back up his claim.

               I also enjoyed the picture, and had never seen it myself before. I simply made the comment that it is originally from 2013, that’s all.
               • te reo putake …

                 6 July 2015 at 5:21 pm

                 I’m not claiming they’re doing it again. The tweeter is. Sheesh!
               • maui …

                 6 July 2015 at 5:37 pm

                 A good reminder that when failing to provide evidence for your comments you can serve a week in the hole 😉 .
                 • te reo putake …

                   6 July 2015 at 5:45 pm

                   Not quite right, maui. Comments are fine. However failing to back up an actual claim and being a prat about it can lead to a week off. I seem to recall that happened to someone recently 😉
                   • maui …

                     6 July 2015 at 6:21 pm

                     I have been holding candle lit vigils some nights praying for a safe return.
                   • te reo putake []

                     6 July 2015 at 6:24 pm

                     Me too. Ouch! Just burnt my fingers, oooh, hot wax, hot wax!
3. Phil 3

   6 July 2015 at 1:27 pm

   Two points:

   1) BM’s right. Where ever those figures are from, they’re totally wrong. I think they might be total assets of the banks? (Edit – nope, that ain’t it either).

   2) The lending made under the TARP program to US banks was fully repaid to the Federal Government and made a profit for the taxpayer.

   ———

   There ain’t a snowball’s chance in hell of Greece repaying anything lent to it today. The sooner they default, exit the Euro, and reprint a new currency, the sooner they get on the road to recovery.
4. Realblue 4

   6 July 2015 at 1:44 pm

   Yea those figures are a fantasy. All bailout funds were repaid with interest. Greece doesn’t have a hope of meeting their obligations.
   • Tracey 4.1

     6 July 2015 at 1:51 pm

     what a shame Greece had no one to pass the costs of borrowing on to
   • r0b 4.2

     6 July 2015 at 1:53 pm

     Yeah bear in mind too that the bailouts for banks did not come with terms and conditions that destroyed their economies / ability to repay.
5. Realblue 5

   6 July 2015 at 1:55 pm

   Don’t borrow what you can’t pay back. The problem isn’t borrowing its the ability to service the debt.
   • tracey 5.1

     6 July 2015 at 2:11 pm

     C’mon, never held back Trump, and he’s running for president…
     • Realblue 5.1.1

       6 July 2015 at 2:45 pm

       I’m not sure what your point is. Are your comparing the complexity of the Greek situation to Trump ? Is it that he’s running for President of that he was once bankrupt? If that’s your point its a feeble one. Trump is a private citizen, Greece is a sovereign nation. Quite different.

       You don’t think that Geeece had other options that to borrow their citizenry into crippling debt and bring this inevitable situation on their country?
   • DoublePlusGood 5.2

     6 July 2015 at 2:17 pm

     Don’t lend money to an entity that can’t pay you back, demand changes that destroy their ability to pay anything back, and then whine that you aren’t going to get your money back. If you take on significant risk, be willing to accept you made a bad investment choice if it goes wrong.
   • Sabine 5.3

     6 July 2015 at 2:44 pm

     This goes both way. No one should borrow what they can’t repay (and in saying that we could stop borrowing altogether, inclusive mortgage lending as one might loose a job and an ability to repay etc), but banks should also not lend any money to people, institutions or countries that can’t service the loan. If a bank is happy to lend to someone I would assume they have made a risk assessment and felt confident. Now if their risk assessment was shite, why should they be able to socialize their losses?
6. dukeofurl 6

   6 July 2015 at 2:05 pm

   Banco Espirito Santo ?
   That rings a bell

   Yes , they made of with $200 mill of NZ taxpayers money – with the help of the Portuguese government AND Goldman Sachs ( didnt have to pay the bond insurance due to the way Portugal structured the bailout, how lucky is that)
7. weka 7

   6 July 2015 at 2:09 pm

   Great photo. Reading today about Greece has me thinking about too much of NZ being still too comfortable or not yet at the point of nothing left to lose. But maybe we should be preparing for the day when it’s our turn and it might be useful to discuss what that might look at and how NZers might respond. I’m betting that NZers would dump their garbage at the Beehive (Wellingtonians at least, the rest outside the local govt MP’s office).

   Any thoughts?
   • shorts 7.1

     6 July 2015 at 2:14 pm

     most kiwis wouldn’t care…as long as there’s rugby to watch and someone poorer than them to blame

     it will of course be labours fault
     • weka 7.1.1

       6 July 2015 at 2:51 pm

       You think when NZ gets to the point of the banking system falling over most NZers won’t care? Or a 25% unemployment rate? Pensions being cut? Salaries being cut? etc
8. G C 8

   6 July 2015 at 5:56 pm

   We’ll get charged for it somehow~!!! lol
9. TheContrarian 9

   6 July 2015 at 6:00 pm

   This sort of thing has started to be a bit of a trend in The Standard which is unfortunate. Like Ricketts because milk price article of last week and the Pebbles has strong national links from the weekend, authors would be well served to actual check the facts of what they are posting…

   Note: this isn’t telling people what to write but that accuracy is important.
   • Lanthanide 9.1

     6 July 2015 at 6:59 pm

     +1
   • fisiani 9.2

     7 July 2015 at 9:36 am

     Don’t let checking facts get in the way of a good chance to stick it to National. It’s the equivalent of crying wolf over and over and as far as I can see there is never an apology. No wonder the public phone is off the hook.

     [There is nothing to apologise for, Gossie. The post made no comment on the tweet. And you know this is not a Labour Party site. Pull your head in. TRP]
10. old school 10

    6 July 2015 at 7:26 pm

    Dare yous grasp the socialkist knowing,not your pin numbered socialist know its debt exploit of your humanities owning mine.Ye! dare you your self me im in charge i own this who are you.Not socialist care in your mind just look this blog is me,see me how i control it.
11. Richard@Down South 11

    7 July 2015 at 12:26 pm

    At the rate the big 4 banks increase their profits, and at the rate the Government is mishandling the economy (tax cuts for the rich, destroying the spending power of the lower economic groups), as well as a slash an burn at all costs to achieve a surplus (HAHAHAHAHA), New Zealand wont be too far behind

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