Bowron on English’s ‘useless druggies’ smear

33 comments on “Bowron on English’s ‘useless druggies’ smear ”

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1. aerobubble 1

   6 March 2017 at 12:21 pm

   Billion dollar drug seizer. Yeah, must the few stupid people looking fot work and did not go cold turkey before and so aren’t now the majority of drug users who hold down jobs, coz how else do they pay for their habit.

   Trump claims Obama and Congress are tying his hands, this is why he’s failing, another whinny Politician. Dunne bats for farmers, labourers should get super early.

   Politics is b*llocks.

   Super is easy, raise retirement age to 70, but allow those on ACC, have sickness caused by being worn out to take a lower ramping up to the main rate at seventy. And since its for a few, stipulaye they need the benefit to apply. No means testing Super, citizens can still get super from 60 a lower age. Whatever happened to good govt? Whene people put out by a policy were helped in another way. Ever since Thatcher loaded us up on debt crazed finance our economies have steadily shifted wealth to the few and made it harder for businesses to compete. As finance is much more profitable than investing, and shrt termisms madness undermines long term sustainable economics.

   Trump is a dope, he’s there to do nothing but delay, hoping the markets can screw us all more while we’re following all the political b*llock.

   TTP failed as it reward polluters with a sure bet, they could sue for losses when their pollution was exposed. Just as our financial sector pollute us all with debt, future crisises, and social chaos.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.1

     6 March 2017 at 1:22 pm

     Super is easy, raise retirement age to 70

     Just have UBI then you don’t have or need a retirement age and people can then choose to work or not.

     Working makes them better off but not working doesn’t throw them into poverty or at the mercy of the government.
2. Keith 2

   6 March 2017 at 1:23 pm

   Poor old Bill, trying to explain their wage suppressing, sugar high growth strategy based on cheap migrant labour is like explaining how nice a dead rat fished from the sewer is to eat.

   So liberally throw a hell of a lot of Kiwis under the bus to save your skin!

   He’s like Key but without the used car salesman persona!
   • peterlepaysan 2.1

     6 March 2017 at 6:58 pm

     That is being rather harsh on car salesmen. Play fair.
3. esoteric pineapples 3

   6 March 2017 at 2:00 pm

   As much as I concur with the general sentiment, I was talking to an aborist on Saturday who says he has had so many problems getting good staff for his business that he is seriously thinking about get some Filipinos. The ideal target group for his line of work are men in their twenties but he’s found amongst other problems that they don’t stick around. One of his trainees was just a few months away from getting his aborist qualifications and still quit. This particular employer is a very pleasant and generous person.

   I also know another small business that makes gates that has had the same sorts of problems.

   I wonder if there isn’t a broader issue at work than young people being stoners. If I was an employer I don’t think I would have a problem finding good female workers, but I think finding good young male workers would be quite difficult, particularly in the provinces. The entire social system in New Zealand has been dumbing down the population since the beginning of Rogernomics in the mid 1980s. Perhaps the young males we are producing now are the result of that.

   I don’t claim to have the answer but I think finding good young male workers is a genuine problem that can’t be dismissed outright and a problem that can’t be solved without a radical change in society that is the complete opposite to what has been happening for the past 40 years.
   • mpledger 3.1

     6 March 2017 at 2:42 pm

     young men have always moved between jobs quickly. It has usually been to their advantage because they get a bump=up with each new job. It’s actually one of the reasons that men get paid more than women – loyalty doesn’t earn you anything.

     Losing apprentiships has been a big disservice – it gave young men job security while they got themselves used to the rigours of the work world.
     • esoteric pineapples 3.1.1

       6 March 2017 at 3:30 pm

       I read in a book about the Middle Ages in England that the society then saw young men being at their most problematic in their late teens and early twenties which is why they had a system of apprenticeships. It helped the young men but also helped society as it kept them out of trouble.
       • BM 3.1.1.1

         6 March 2017 at 3:32 pm

         The army was another avenue.
   • BM 3.2

     6 March 2017 at 3:04 pm

     The problem starts at home and is compounded at school.

     Home, far too much my kid is my best friend bollocks.

     At school far too much emphasis on the “Fun and exciting”, this sort of environment does not create young men/women who are work ready.

     I seriously believe there needs to be a finishing year,\ when one leaves high school, everyone gets to spend six months to a year at some camp learning to be good citizens and preparing you for adulthood.

     I remember watching a show about Scandinavia and one of the countries(think it was Denmark?) does something similar.
     • esoteric pineapples 3.2.1

       6 March 2017 at 3:32 pm

       Part of the problem is that a lot of young men don’t even know what they want to do for a career by the time they finish school, and that is seventh form these days.

       I was thinking at lunchtime today that encouraging good life time habits is probably more important at school than how many facts you learn.
       • BM 3.2.1.1

         6 March 2017 at 3:39 pm

         That encouraging good lifetime habits is probably more important at school than how many facts you learn.

         I couldn’t agree more.

         How to budget
         Basic financial skills around loans and interest
         The importance of time management
         How to organise yourself
         Why you should save money
         How to sell yourself
         Why appearances matter.
         How to relate to adults
         How to set goals and achieve them

         This stuff is far more important than learning random facts.
         • Muttonbird 3.2.1.1.1

           6 March 2017 at 3:41 pm

           Bugger furthering knowledge, just pump out boring, well-organised robots.
           • BM 3.2.1.1.1.1

             6 March 2017 at 3:47 pm

             Try not to always be a complete cock Muttonbird

             The skills listed above are what everyone should have, regardless of what you do.
             • Muttonbird …

               6 March 2017 at 3:54 pm

               You make an art out of being a complete cock, BM. Did you learn that in school?
               • reason …

                 6 March 2017 at 5:41 pm

                 Undoubtedly he did that at school Muttonbird …. but he learned it at home.

                 Kids spend about 25 hrs per week in the classroom ….

                 That 25 hrs has a piss poor chance of correcting the other approx 138hrs spent out of school ……

                 The economic model BM supports also attacks the family unit … bending and buckling it.

                 Meaning tired or stressed out parents have less chance of passing on good life skills and attitudes to their children ….

                 Blaming schools as BM did is a right-wing cop out …….
     • Red Hand 3.2.2

       6 March 2017 at 8:55 pm

       CMT. No privacy, mindless drill, the soldier’s mess, standing around for hours waiting to be ordered to do something, exercises that turned to custard within hours, “domino effect” brainwashing, no doors on the toilets and showers, masturbation a major challenge, Waiouru winters. “learning to be good citizens and preparing you for adulthood” Yeah right !
   • Siobhan 3.3

     6 March 2017 at 3:22 pm

     My son works on an orchid in the Hawkes bay. A large company.

     Last week the imported labour actually downed tools for the day, the top picker walked away permanently, due to the dodgy toing and froing between being paid per bin..and minimum wage.
     An arrangement that is supposed to help the workers picking bare trees, but is randomly used to undermine their hard work.
     These are people putting up with their own supervisor making them ‘sit out’ and miss picking time as a random punishment.
     These are people who don’t speak English, and are from a country where there is no real minimum wage.

     And even they realised they were being screwed.
   • UncookedSelachimorpha 3.4

     6 March 2017 at 9:03 pm

     @Esoteric Pinapples

     You mention the employer is “generous”, but at no point do you provide any detail on terms and conditions offered. Are they enough to live reasonably well on?

     Many jobs that people struggle to fill, actually pay less than is needed to live any sort of half-decent life – it is this part of the equation that NActs and co ignore.
4. Tophat 4

   6 March 2017 at 2:21 pm

   ” If I was an employer I don’t think I would have a problem finding good female workers, but I think finding good young male workers would be quite difficult.”

   This is worse than Bills original statement.
   What is your fantasy business, beautician?
   Are you saying more males than females use drugs?
   • esoteric pineapples 4.1

     6 March 2017 at 3:42 pm

     I think young women in general make better workers at that age. To start with they usually have better communication skills. An awful lot of young males aren’t very good at stringing words together and engaging in conversation. And these are young males from a variety of backgrounds. The poor communication skills of males in New Zealand may be a cultural thing that goes back a few generations.

     I don’t have a problem with young men or women smoking marijuana outside of work. In fact, I think it should be legalised. That might even help employers to find better staff as alcohol is far more destructive of young people’s consciousness. It has a major influence in dumbing people down and not helping them to come out of their shells. I don’t support use of harder drugs though like P. I think using those sorts of drugs is related to the other problems young men and others may be having and only exacerbates them.

     My main point is that employer’s comments that they find it hard to find good staff in New Zealand shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand but the culprit is more likely to lie in the general destruction of many positive aspects of New Zealand culture by monetarism and its associated philosophies such as “user pays” and “there is no such thing as society”. We have got where we are today by thousands of small but destructive incremental steps.
     • Tophat 4.1.1

       6 March 2017 at 5:05 pm

       I see now and agree.Though I think the issue is more founded in areas such as trades and services no longer being viewed as legitimate vocations due to their low wages and complete lack of job security.

       I mean it must be hard to plan the future these days. One could leave school early and get a job paying minimum wage with the prospect of never really doing much better. Or they could leave school and get a loan to study for an apprenticeship knowing they will probably have to do this more than once again in their lives.They could finish school and take out a student loan and further their education, graduate with honors and then have to complete a hospitality course to be able to gain employment- for minimum wage. ( This actually happened to a friend’s son last year. )
       Or they can let fate decide.
       dammit that’s bleak gimme a joint. 😉
5. Sorrwerdna 5

   6 March 2017 at 2:32 pm

   Do you really think that a young stoner will give a fats rats ar*e what Bill thinks. There is an extremely hi chance they have no idea who he is .anyway.
   • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1

     6 March 2017 at 2:38 pm

     Thanks for clearing that up.

     So what do you think of Bill English’s inept tendency to run his mouth? Is the level of media derision about right?
6. Bill Witherman 6

   6 March 2017 at 3:21 pm

   Bill English’s mate’s, convicted migrant Labour abusers:

   https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/marlborough-express/20100819/281646776444009

   Bill English warmly shaking hands with those dodgy mates at a boozy do up:

   http://imgur.com/YkudbRf
   • Have Nots 6.1

     6 March 2017 at 4:14 pm

     LOL

     caption:

     Are you an immigrant or an immigrant trafficker?
     • Bill Witherman 6.1.1

       6 March 2017 at 4:33 pm

       Allow me to get the meme ball rolling:

       http://imgur.com/w13s3LN
7. greywarshark 7

   6 March 2017 at 3:58 pm

   Those wanting to change the government to Labour need not drugs but the togetherness and vitality of the Pyjama Garme at work making shirts:

   Deep Heat
   (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0szHqIXQ2R8

   and wage rises Seven and a half Cents
   (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w4mVycaC_o

   and the workers in the factory
   (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Xi_IyHYNc
8. grumpystilskin 8

   6 March 2017 at 5:54 pm

   With the minimum wage being so low and the cost of living going up, why would a young 18-20 y/o man stick to a job if they were not getting anything out of it and couldn’t see a future?
   A minimum wage job doesn’t deserve loyalty. Respect goes both ways.
9. Tamati Tautuhi 9

   6 March 2017 at 9:27 pm

   Why do we have a drug/alcohol problem in NZ, is it a lack of education or is it neoliberalism and social engineering which is breaking down society?
   • Craig H 9.1

     7 March 2017 at 7:48 am

     I think we have basically always had an alcohol problem, but it hasn’t always been seen as a problem.
10. Ian 10

    6 March 2017 at 9:52 pm

    Bill English is right on the money . I have read all the preceding comments and I don’t think the commenters have a grasp of the problem. The worst employees I ever had were in their forties and were drugged up hardened crims that put on a sweet smile and great bravado while they bled you like slaughtermen. Currently all our workers are from overseas,we pay them well above minimum wage and they are family. Bill English is right on the money. No more local ferals in this neck of the woods.
    • the pigman 10.1

      6 March 2017 at 11:04 pm

      Right on the money.

      Fuck young kiwis! Who needs them when you can have a paradise of free movement of labour supporting race-to-the-bottom capitalism?!

      Right on the money!
      • A farmer bloke 10.1.1

        7 March 2017 at 12:49 am

        They are so obedient too. The village as a whole is often made responsible for the huge loans they took out back home using the family vehicle and land title as collateral. If they default or get fired they will not only lose everything but probably can’t return to their villages either.

        It’s great to have such highly motivated workers. They aren’t spoilt like your average Kiwi worker. Bread on a diet of a few bowls of white rice a day and fried crickets, they are just grateful not to be dead. Kiwis could learn a few things by walking a mile in their shoes (or barefoot!).

        Hopefully we get rid of what remains of this welfare state nonsense so Kiwi born workers are equally motivated – if their genes have not been destroyed by the pot!

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