Calling Mr Gower – more late payments!

Written By: - Date published: 9:49 am, February 19th, 2015 - 203 comments
Categories: journalism - Tags: , , ,

Apparently Mr Gower worked himself up into an unseemly state of excitement with a chance to stick it to Andrew Little on the telly last night. (He’s catching a fair bit of well deserved flack on Twitter today.) Since the trigger for the feeding frenzy was the subject of late bill payments, I wondered if Mr Gower might be interested in looking in to the many cases of late payment arising from the Novopay fiasco.

Two cases, just for example, have come up already in today’s Novopay post here at The Standard. Eg:

My son is working as a teacher aid. he wasn’t paid until 5 weeks after he started. The pay is minimum wage anyway so not getting any for 5 weeks is pretty tough.

THEN his other job is an after school programme which is also Novopay. At the same time they stuffed his pay up and it took 4 weeks to sort…

Eg:

As someone who has had to wait months for payment from Novopay, I had to go and take several hundred calming breaths after reading the above. The fact that I only received last year’s holiday pay yesterday when my contract ended 16th December is just one of the many examples my small (2.4 teacher / 3 pt support staff) school went through last year alone.

The stress on everyone is far too lightly dismissed by those from the Prime Minister down to the MoE and Novopay contractors. Let them try to live without the certainty that the pay you have earned will be available for the mortgage or rent, electricity, food etc and perhaps then they will feel as those thousands of principals, teachers and support staff have felt during this long and still ongoing debacle.

Over to you Mr Gower.

203 comments on “Calling Mr Gower – more late payments!”

  1. Sable 1

    Does anyone really care what the NZ MSM say anymore? They are just mouthpieces for the right.

    • amirite 1.1

      The whole story has been manufactured by Gower who made a huge miscalculation as to when the invoice was sent so the original article on the 3 News website where he was stating that Little did not pay Cohen for 4 months, had to be edited.

      The truth is, according to Herald, that the invoice was not sent till late December. Counting the holidays in, that’s all together 6 weeks of outstanding debt. Hardly a newsworthy story or a scandal when thousands of businesses and contractors suffer from same problems.

  2. mickysavage 2

    Perfectly put!

  3. Neil 3

    What ever happened to neutrality in MSM?

  4. Tracey 4

    Thanks for this post.

    Hopefully by day’s end Gower is the one who looks foolish…

    In Arpil 2011 Mr Joyce agreed to loan $43m to MediaWorks (which includes TV3) – so much for government staying out of business. By February 2015 Mr Joyce was presiding over a fucked up SkyCity deal and a $45m blowout to Novopay (even though private business can do things SOOOOOO much better than the State – anyone recall what was so wrong with the previous system?)

    Mr Gower, employed by MediaWorks subsidiary TV3 decides the pollitical focus of the day must be Mr Litt’es $950.00 debt.

    It is no wonder people cry “conspiracy”

    • Tracey 4.1

      from mediaworks website

      MediaWorks operates nationwide free-to-air channels TV3, FOUR, C4 and TV3plus1 from network premises in Auckland, with sales offices in Wellington Christchurch and Hamilton, and news bureaux in Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Sydney (Australia), and London (UK).

      TV3 and FOUR are major players in the New Zealand television landscape, with a complementary programming strategy that maximises choice for our viewers and opportunities for advertisers.

      TV3 is the channel of choice for 25-54 year-olds and offers an entertaining and engaging mix of drama, comedy, event television and leading news and current affairs to the millions of viewers who tune in each month. Local content is at the heart of TV3, and Kiwi storytelling sits alongside the pick of international shows in the primetime schedule. Flagship shows include 3 News, Campbell Live, The Block, The X Factor, Cadbury Dream Factory, 7 Days, Jono and Ben at Ten, The Black List, Sons of Anarchy, Grand Designs, NCIS and The Graham Norton Show.

      FOUR is a pure entertainment channel for 18-49 year olds and broadcasts a lineup of engaging dramas, comedy and reality shows. FOUR is home to some of the world’s most popular television brands, such as New Girl, The Simpsons, Family Guy, Next Top Model, Glee, How I Met Your Mother, Real Housewives and Californication, plus hit movies and an array of daytime kids’ programming.

      • David H 4.1.1

        I find I am watching less and less TV as it’s all just depressing nonsense, and of course Gower standing there like a half stuffed penguin, just makes my skin crawl, that and that leer.

        • Paul 4.1.1.1

          I don’t watch the corporate news.
          It’s just propaganda for the 0.1%, bankers and corporations.

        • North 4.1.1.2

          And the teeth……those fucking teeth…….flashed denouement style out of a semi-grimace after he’s finished spittling and flecking. Like some fulla waving yards and yards of anonymous gaberdine trench coat, half hidden by a large oak in the park. “Wadya reckon, wadya reckon, wadya reckon ?” Really getting off ! Sorry, Burberry, to conceal the vulgar, crumpled, bum freezer suit. And mind. Wouldn’t have a clue that idiot !

      • Patai 4.1.2

        And your point would be….what?

  5. Tracey 5

    Watching the item yesterday my “gut” feeling is this focus was personal for Gower. He, for reasons I don’t know, felt slighted or something by Little and was looking to “put him in his place”. I have NO evidence but that is how it came across to me.

    “na-na-na-na-na Mr Little” P Gower 2015

  6. fisiani 6

    Andrew Little realised that he had to finally and reluctantly pay the $950 owed when it was raised in Parliament by Stephen Joyce. His hypocrisy about supporting small business was publicly exposed and he moved to damage limitation smartly. Matt McCarten of coursehas a track record of not deliberately not paying bills when he was with UNITE union so you can probably expect more examples of stiffing creditors of the Labour Party to emerge. Major character flaw.

    • mickysavage 6.1

      Do you ever get embarrassed Fisi at how tenuous and irrational your attacks are or how badly you get your facts wrong?

    • Old Mickey 6.2

      Spot on. Well called.

    • Ffloyd 6.3

      *Deliberately not paying bills*
      You know this how??

      • NZJester 6.3.1

        No he said “a track record of not deliberately not paying bills”.
        Remove the double negative and that means he has “a track record of deliberately paying bills”?

    • Anno1701 6.4

      where as liquidating a company to avoid paying your debts is ok ?

      this sort of behavior is how you get (and stay ) wealthy isnt it ?

      the working class pays its bills , because they are honest decent people, cant say the same for many of the upper class i have met here in NZ

  7. mac1 7

    Fisi, when will Bill pay his $100 billion bill?

    • Sabine 7.1

      Bill will not pay anything,

      you, I and Fisiani will.

      🙂

      oh and gossman and the beige one, and every other nz’ler.

      bill on the other hand, will pay an accountant so as to never have to pay anything.

      • mac1 7.1.1

        So, Sabine, as our re-education of Fisiani moves into its second phase, the question is, “If you and I and Fisiani and the other enlightened ones are paying this $100 billion bill that Bill won’t be paying, then who is benefitting from our $100 billion generosity?”

  8. Chooky 8

    the point is …..that it is interesting that Little and the Labour Party are mixing and getting paid help from the likes of David Cohen ( is this where our subs go?)….and no friend of the Greens or Mana ( whom many Labour Party members would like to see as coalition partners)

    ….is this where Little’s real sympathies lie, with the views of the likes of David Cohen? …is Little quite compromised now? ( Little was endorsed by the likes of Michelle Boag and other right wing Nacts….Matthew Hooton?)

    ….inwhich case it is very disturbing for traditional Labour Party supporters, who have a lot of sympathy for other New Zealanders on the Left ….Maori, Pakeha and women …those that the Greens and Mana represent !

    .as Bomber Bradbury says:

    ….”the issue surely is that Andrew Little was taking political strategic advice from a right wing columnist writing for the NBR, the most right wing Newspaper in NZ. David Cohen, who has also written for the Christian Science Monitor and the Jerusalem Report, is an extremely odd choice as political advisor to the Labour Party.”

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/02/18/ummm-beyond-hating-on-patrick-gower-isnt-the-issue-of-andrew-littles-late-payment-something-else-completely/

    [lprent: As usual when it comes to the NZLP, bomber was being his usual fuckwit self and simply lying. He has about much knowledge about real politics as the headless chicken he so often tries to emulate.

    Why bother repeating the views of a political fool?

    It had nothing to do with Labour, and you take the best advice that is available. In the case of an outsider leader contender, you take advice about tactics from outside the left because word about tactics doesn’t leak.

    Mind you if you want something to leak, talk to bomber. ]

    • mickysavage 8.1

      Labour neither sought nor paid for the advice. It was a private matter.

      • Chooky 8.1.1

        from pu on Open Mike…the story keeps changing:

        the story is changing..!

        ..we were initially told he was hired to get into littles’ head..

        ..and to turn what he found there into coherent script..

        ..to coalesce the contents..

        ..and now he was ‘just a devils’ advocate’…?..eh..?

        ..i think i’ll go with the first story..

        ..(and i wonder how much cohen is getting paid to download what he found in littles’ head..

        ..for the use of the right..?..)

        ..speaking of ‘strategic-nous’…eh..?

        ..that’d be more of that labour party ‘strategic-nous’ in action..

        ..eh..?

        • Tracey 8.1.1.1

          for 950 bucks he is either very cheap or on a normal hourly rate, did little work (no pun intended)

          • Chooky 8.1.1.1.1

            its not the price or what it cost for the services….why would the leader of the Labour Party have ANY association with the guy ?….who is leading the Little Labour Party?

            ….would John Key pay Bomber Bradbury $950 bucks for his advice and services to him and the Nactional Party ?

            • te reo putake 8.1.1.1.1.1

              The leader of the Labour Party didn’t have an association with the guy. It was for advice during the campaign to win that job. Given how tight the result was, it may have been money well spent.

              btw, If it was to Key’s advantage, yes, he’d certainly use Bomber. I’ve got no reason to think Bomber wouldn’t take the money either. That’s his day job, after all.

              • Chooky

                interesting take on things….considering David Cohen’s attack on Hone Harawira, as I recall just after the Election

            • Tracey 8.1.1.1.1.2

              I don’t know cos I don’t know anything about him.

              I also didn’t know anything about Owen Glenn until he and Winston fell out cos he didnt guest his plumb post in Monacco

              I am interested in how Joyce keeps getting away with cronyism or incompetence.

          • Chooky 8.1.1.1.2

            …..and $950 is a lot of money for a beneficiary….why didnt Little ask a Mana Party member …or a beneficiary for their advice to the Labour Party…. if he wanted an ‘outside’ view and advice?

            • te reo putake 8.1.1.1.2.1

              He wanted a conservative ‘Devil’s Advocate’ view of how he came across, apparently. As I said above, I’d have taken the dosh to my local pub and got twenty conservative opinions in 5 minutes flat.

              • Tracey

                So Little and McCarten knew exactly from what cloth he was cut and didnt pay him anyway… misjudgment for sure. Not as bad as Joyce and Key over SkyCity and Novopay and…

                • LilaR

                  I don’t know how many times it needs to be repeated – the bill *was* paid, and reasonably promptly if you take into account that it wasn’t presented until December, and then the holidays happened. As can be seen from a comment above, the delay was actually six weeks, not four months. I’m not a Labour supporter, and haven’t been for years, but I don’t appreciate criticism based on wilful misconstruing of facts.

            • Tracey 8.1.1.1.2.2

              Why didnt bomber bradbury donate a portion of his salary from working for the capitalistic (charged with a crime) dotcom to a womens refuge or similar? I don’t know but it is as relevant as your question cos it must mean Bradbury isnt really a friend of the downtrodden afterall, by your logic..

              • lprent

                FFS I have done that for years, ever since my mother started working for one.

              • Chooky

                well maybe Bradbury did? ..that is not the point because Dotcom was actually funding Mana/Int to the tune of over a million? …Mana/Int who represent the poorest and most downtrodden…you know …the ones Labour used to represent

                …the point is why the hell did Little labour have the likes of a right winger David Cohen advising them?….and a paying for it!…ot rather getting into trouble for not paying for their contractual bill?….whichever way you look at it …it is a BAD look ….and incompetent NOT to pay their bill….he had them over a barrel

      • fisiani 8.1.2

        It was a private unpaid debt to a legitimate creditor by the Leader of the Labour Party. Now I realise why he only had and has 4 supporters in caucus.

    • English Breakfast 8.2

      …to say nothing of the fact that Bombers comments were just a little Jewophobic and Christianophobic.

  9. wyndham 9

    What / who was Winston getting at yesterday in Parliament when he spoke of Nact members having unpaid bills ? He was quickly silenced by the Speaker.
    Anyone know ?

  10. Stuart Munro 10

    I’d characterise the decline of NZ’s MSM as being much worse than merely being mouthpieces for the right.

    The damning feature is the morbid stupidity of the Thug crowd. Anyone actually trained as a journalist watching Paul Henry waving sex toys around and giggling like no-one over the age of 11 might be excused for thinking broadcasting in NZ has reached its lowest ebb – until the wooden Patrick Gower does a slow motion attack for the sub 80 IQ segment, just to remind us who the real Mr Angry is.

    These guys are shit. Not fit to broadcast in Somalia, much less New Zealand. But the insidious truth is that they are the visible face of creeping fascism. Fascism is recognisable by the crude bullying, the creation of a climate of fear, which pervades the public media. Ugly, crude, and stupid is the order of the day – thus we get Whaleoil, Henry, Plunket and Hosking performing the vital task – the identification of of weakness – and any small target foolish enough to turn its back on them is bound to get a thumping.

    Now the thing about fascism is, the thing we saw last time it happened, is that it gets worse before it gets better. And ultimately it has to be removed, and the surviving villains jailed at great cost and trouble. NZ is in a very bad place, and getting worse.

    • Rodel 10.2

      Stuart
      Gower this morning interviewed a spokesperson for the greens/ or was it Greenpeace
      on the planned demolition of an Auckland wharf.

      He tried so hard asking loaded questions to get her to say that they were unhappy about the demolition. (trying to create something sensational) but she essentially- said frankly Paddy we don’t give a sh*t- If the wharf is past it, it should be replaced.

      He seemed very disappointed that he couldn’t create a crisis where none existed and eventually gave up. Sad really…but a good example of an alleged journalist yet again attempting to make a story out of nothing.
      Similar to his Little attempts.

    • North 10.3

      Plus 1000 Stuart Munro ! And sadder is that they’re children in the main. Cafe Society, not terribly literate, punks and punkesses. Everything’s become so lamentably and for that so risibly facile and cheap ! Back in the days of School Cert and UE I doubt they’d have made statements.

  11. Ffloyd 11

    Poor little paddy. Could he be any more obvious. He plumbed new depths last night with his hatchet job on Little I had a bet with myself during the day that Gower would be hammering the UNPAID DEBT! And I won! He is so predictable.
    The honeymoon is over? Don’t think so paddy.
    Got any oversight on the Novopay debacle? What has it cost the country to keep it running again? Are you going to be interviewing joycie on this. Would definitely watch that one.

  12. McGrath 12

    Yes it’s embarrassing but will be forgotten in a week.

    • music4menz 12.1

      Not so sure that you are right here- sadly Morgan is still associated with his expensive underpants and, as we saw in posts here yesterday, Shearer is still associated with his two fish- even Labour Cabinet Minister from yesteryear Mabel Howard is best remembered for producing her bloomers in Parliament! Andrew has made a blunder here that will likely be remembered and rehashed by the MSM for many years to come. That’s the nature of political life, maybe.

  13. Neil 13

    Someone should do a credit check on Gower with bay corp.

    • TheBlackKitten 13.1

      Yes that could be quite interesting, he may have overdue debts that he can’t pay due to not been paid himself by the likes of Little.

    • NZJester 13.2

      Unfortunately I think you need Gower’s permission to run a credit check on him legally and I doubt he would allow that!

  14. TheBlackKitten 14

    The real issue is that ‘everyone’ should be paid regardless if they are a contractor or a worker, both deserve to be paid and both should not be left to hang dry for 4 months. Even Mattie wrote on one of his emails that “all workers should be paid for the work that they do” and he is right. So why didn’t Labour pay this fellow on time?
    This debacle is really more about how inapt, unorganised & most importantly, how out of touch the Labour Party really is with middle nz. Many middle nzers have small businesses, are contractors and rely heavily on that cash flow for their survival and are not the filthy rolling in dosh capitalists that some that are stuck in the 1950’s era love to make them out to be.
    What’s an even bigger cockup is that Labour just recently told these people that they want to help them. What the hell does a lawyer or any other academic public servant have in understanding of the day to day running of a small business or relying on prompt payments as a contractor? Evidently none judging from Little’s comments that somehow a contractor and a worker are different, one deserves to be paid whilst the other should just go hang for their money.
    Just imagine the screaming and performance if this had happened to a worker in a large corporate company. If a worker had had their pay paid 4 months late. Sorry, can’t spot the difference between a worker and a contractor (unlike Little) perhaps someone might like to clarify that one for me.
    As for the Novapay debacle – who originally signed the contract with this inapt overseas firm? Ever hear of contract clauses or experienced the huge costs and difficulties when trying to exit one before time? So what should National have done with this white elephant that passed on to them from the last Labour government? As I said, what the heck do academic public servants know about implementing & running a complex payroll system for the teachers in NZ. When Labour gallantly signed us up with this white elephant did they actually bother to talk with the people that actually used & paid teachers on the last payroll system & go over what was needed? No, didn’t think so.

    • dv 14.1

      >>As for the Novapay debacle – who originally signed the contract with this inapt overseas firm? Ever hear of contract clauses or experienced the huge costs and difficulties when trying to exit one before time? So what should National have done with this white elephant that passed on to them from the last Labour government? As I said, what the heck do academic public servants know about implementing & running a complex payroll system for the teachers in NZ. When Labour gallantly signed us up with this white elephant did they actually bother to talk with the people that actually used & paid teachers on the last payroll system & go over what was needed? No, didn’t think so.

      Thank goodness the competent Nats recognised the incompetence of the Labs AND made sure there was a phased roll out with full testing.

      Hang on did that happen?

      nekmint 46 m dollars later.

      • NZJester 14.1.1

        Form what I have heard and read Labour actually had lots of safeguards in that contract. When National came into power they changed the contract to speed up the testing and shortcutted the testing process tossing out all the careful safeguards Labour put in the original contract to allow them to back out if it was a dog.
        Under a Labour government the rigorous testing they had originally called for might have turned up all the problems and they would have abandoned it before it was rolled out NZ wide at little loss to the tax payer.
        http://www.computerworld.co.nz/article/487952/report_slams_novopay_roll-out/

    • Hateatea 14.2

      It didn’t trouble the PM, the Minister of Finance or the Minister of Education when Novopay didn’t pay me from March until the end of June or my outstanding holiday pay from December until mid February!

      Where is Patrick Gower’s concern for all the school principals, teachers and support staff who still are suffering ongoing pay malfunctions? They NEED money to live on too and are unable to wield the clout of the dissatisfied consultant or Patrick Gower.

      When people at the flaxroots are not being paid their full entitlement, if they are being paid at all, it is a little remiss to be more concerned over a ‘consultant / journalist / flack’ who has other revenue streams not just one as most education sector workers do.

      • TheBlackKitten 14.2.1

        “When people at the flaxroots are not being paid their full entitlement, if they are being paid at all, it is a little remiss to be more concerned over a ‘consultant / journalist / flack’ who has other revenue streams not just one as most education sector workers do.”
        Fair comment & before I go further, please understand that I do find it horrific & unacceptable that you were left with no income for such long periods due to an inapt incompetent system. The clowns at Novapay should hang their heads in shame for supplying such crap software that created these situations.
        See the issue with small business or contractors is that it is like a domino effect, one debtor fails to pay its supplier means that supplier then cannot pay their suppliers and so on and so on. This creates low cash flows that results in people loosing their jobs. No one wins accept for the first idiot who did not pay, usually some defunct corporate who has wrangled the system to enable him/her to keep their flash mansion, boats etc whilst many contractors are left with nothing but financial misery.
        Everyone should be paid regardless of who or what they are for any work done competently. “A fair days pay for a fair days work” remember.
        Isnt it wrong that people like you miss income but the plebs at Novapay continue to receive theirs? If anyone should not being paid then its the losers at Novapay for shear incompetence in providing a functioning product.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 14.2.1.1

          No. “The clowns at Novopay” were told to go live with a broken product by your idols.

          ‘Personal responsibility’ means it’s always someone else’s fault.

        • Tracey 14.2.1.2

          but you still voted for a party that was in govt and is in govt overseeing this debacle so you werent too horrified about it

    • greywarshark 14.3

      You come here Black Kitten express some concern about real problems for ordinary people and then find a way to land it on the Labour Party. You catch the nasty problem-rodents and then lay them on the Labour Party’s front step.

      Labour isn’t responsible for all that ails us – they aren’t that good at being bad. UNACTs are the winners at ‘bad’, and the sooner you take responsibility for voting in such a shower and make recompense to the rest of us, the sooner we can have the semblance of a good country back.

      • TheBlackKitten 14.3.1

        Let me explain, I voted for the Labour Party all my life until 2008. I did not desert Labour, they deserted me. The issues I highlight are issues that a traditional Labour Party would have tackled, made an attempt and sat down and created policies, solutions and answers to solve.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 14.3.1.1

          🙄

          And now he’s here shilling for the party that always (yes it does, learn some NZ history, gimp) gives us lower per capita gdp, higher unemployment, and budget deficits, because he cares so much.

          Pfft.

          • TheBlackKitten 14.3.1.1.1

            Why do you assume I am now a National supporter and that I am “shilling” for their party? How is having expectations of wanting everyone to be paid for work done competently shilling for the National Party? Funny as I always thought those filthy Tories would just love the chance to rip the poor worker off given half a chance yet my comment in this regard is the exact opposite to Tory beliefs. Is it not?

            [lprent: You do read like a typical dumb troll trying to look left and smart (and failing miserably). Unfortunately this audience mainly consists of people who have seen way too many people sent out with a set of lines and a storyline suitable for a soap opera. So they will have some fun with you and see if there is actually a brain behind the parrot.

            BTW: read the policy, being capable of reading and understanding it will improve your life expectancy on this site. It shows the limits on when I can dump you off it (you do read like a early 2009 ACToid style troll outside of your era to me – commonly known as a Baaarbie). Of course you could surprise us all as others have and have a rapid evolution beyond the tired old lines. ]

            • One Anonymous Bloke 14.3.1.1.1.1

              I don’t have to “assume” – I can read your comments, and notice the pattern. Perhaps “supporter” is the wrong word. Transparent craven sycophant is more accurate.

        • Tracey 14.3.1.2

          Your concern is noted. Who did you move your vote to, and why?

    • Sabine 14.4

      Am i mistaken or was Labour voted out of government to be replaced with the business savy and smart National Party almost seven years ago?

      You mean I am not mistaken? National is on its third term?

      ahhhh, good that re-assures me. 🙂

      • TheBlackKitten 14.4.1

        By the time National took power in 08 the poorly thought out Novapay contract was already signed by Labour. It was too late to back out, National had no choice but to role with the white elephant handed to them by Labour. I said this in my first comment.
        Once a pig, always a pig. How could they change the Novapay contract? How could they change the terms and conditions already agreed to by the previous government without facing stiff penalty fines? How could they make a pig of a product be any better?

        • freedom 14.4.1.1

          Signing off on the development of a product is a world away from signing off on the Go Live implementation of a product into the marketplace.

          National pressed the big green button, not Labour

          A big green button that was not pressed by the way until four years after National took office.

          http://www.minedu.govt.nz/~/media/MinEdu/Files/TheMinistry/NovopayProject/TestingNovopay/GoLive/EdReportFinalRecommendationV1.pdf

        • Tracey 14.4.1.2

          Havent they just changed the SkyCity contract BlackKitten (answer: yes they have) ? Did they have to roll out in full against advice of Novopay? No they didn’t.

        • tricledrown 14.4.1.3

          Bleak bullshitting kitten.
          The contract was not signed by Labour you Liar.
          Labour haf only agreed to a six month trial in Canterbury.
          If that trial was successful Labour would sign a contract to roll it out across the country if not it would be ditched.
          National didn’t bother trialling in Canterbury for 6 months to see if it would work.
          No they just rolled it out Nation wide fucked over teachers and cost taxpayers nearly $100 million over and above contracted price.
          All deliberately done to help demoralize the state teaching proffession!
          a CATtastrophy created by Nactional!

    • ankerawshark 14.5

      Yes no one should have to wait four months to be paid, but anyone who has run a business will tell you this does happen.

      I am not justifying it. Most of us too will have had the experience when we overlooked a bill (except those extremely well organised people, but even then likely they made one mistake).

      Again I want to raise Mr Cohen’s professionalism. To give this information to people who would make political capital out of that is extremely unprofessional . As a small business owener there are more appropriate ways of dealing with non payment. I have had almost nil non payments.

      This of of course is part of an attack strategy on the Leader of the Opposition. Just like with Cunliffe. This is what loses Labour and the left elections.

      • Reality 14.5.1

        And of course all the strident screaming critics of Andrew Little never ever have made a mistake in their lives, or forgotten something, or overlooked something.

        Yes it was an unfortunate oversight but he will learn from this that’s for sure. How about some tolerance and support, given he is new to the job and has a big task ahead of him.

        Some of you are extraordinarily judgemental and it must be like walking on egg shells to be a neighbour, friend or family.

    • Tracey 14.6

      National changed the contract by demanding a full roll out at one time and before it was ready. The first paragraph of your post I agreed with, then you went all postal.

      You didnt say that Key and Joyce should cancel the SkyCity contract because SkyCity is no longer delivering what was agreed. I wonder why you didn’t carry your logic through to that?

    • LilaR 14.7

      FFS, THE BILL HAS BEEN PAID!!! And, given it wasn’t even presented until December, and given the long summer holiday, the delay was only six weeks, not the four months alleged by Cohen and Gower. No business anywhere expects a bill to be paid the moment it’s received. The whole thing is nothing more than a beat up to try and discredit the Labour Party – yet again. One can’t help wondering just who is lining the pockets of the likes of Gower and his ilk.

  15. Colonial Rawshark 15

    Labour/Little should simply have said – it’s a private business matter. The contractor in question has regrettably broken commercial confidence. The invoice has now been settled but this is not the way we expect someone we thought was a trusted business partner to deal with what we feel was an honest mistake on our part.

    • Rob 15.1

      Really , so is that how you deal with 90 day DSO’s. Actions will always speak louder than words.

      • Colonial Rawshark 15.1.1

        So your idea of professionally sorting out a business issue over a small sum is to go blabbing to the media and to destroy the business relationship?

        No wonder you right wingers are such failures at this.

        • Skinny 15.1.1.1

          Shot lol.

          As if these rightwing clowns don’t already know the 3 basic rules of business. A third go broke, a third don’t pay and a third late pay. And if you don’t allow for this you will join the third that go broke in the first 6 months.

          Matt M would have seen who it was howling to be paid and thought he can wait.

        • infused 15.1.1.2

          that’s pretty funny coming from you.

          shut up and take it.

          the business relationship was already over. no need not to go to the media. he’d obviously had enough.

          i’m sure you cry a river over business on fairgo as well.

          If anything this shows that Labour doesn’t know anything about small business. your comments only confirm this. this is what paddy was getting at, and everyone else. this is why businesses in nz don’t trust labour.

          edit: oh im back? no more comments in to the void.

          • Colonial Rawshark 15.1.1.2.1

            that’s pretty funny coming from you.

            shut up and take it.

            Those are your own words pal, don’t try and stuff them into other peoples mouths.

            Your lot are unprofessional crying to the media over a small bill. Bloody typical bad and untrustworthy up yours business attitude, too lazy to pick up a phone and sort out an issue in a business like fashion.

            Instead chose to throw a tanty and politicise a simple commercial issue over a small sum. Which you support LOL

            He probably did think about taking Little to Fair Go as well now that you bring it up.

            • infused 15.1.1.2.1.1

              Uhh, he picked up the phone. Did you bother to actually read? $950 isn’t a small bill either for a contractor.

              Infact, are you even reading this shit you are writing? How is he being unprofessional and up himself?

              • Colonial Rawshark

                Yeah, he picked up the phone to Fair Go more like.

                It’s a small sum of money. Did anyone go hungry because of it? Did anyones power get cut off? Mistakes happen. Little fixed it.

                No one is going to trust this contractor with anything that is media or commercially sensitive from now on. And you condone it too, funny enough.

                • infused

                  You’re unbelievable. It explains why you haven’t got anywhere in politics. Keep up that attitude.

                  • Tracey

                    Joyce has gone a long way and fucked up SkyCity and Novopay (with help from Parata and Key) with exactly that attitude and worse.

                  • Colonial Rawshark

                    I never garnered the skill of being a compromising careerist suck up. Strangely enough I’m fine with that and not “getting anywhere” in politics.

                • Atiawa

                  The guys a scab

                  – A strikebreaker is a traitor to his god, his country, his family and his class -.

                  Jack London, circa 1904.

                • miravox

                  “Yeah, he picked up the phone to Fair Go more like.”

                  Hmm, maybe Cohen has just pick up the phone to ‘get somewhere in politics’?

                  Obviously not with Labour.

          • Tracey 15.1.1.2.2

            This would be funny, nay hilarious, if the govt hadnt just allowed skycity to under-deliver (to a point below break even) and wasted $45m on Novopay fuck ups because it ignored advice to do a pilotted roll out…

        • Herodotus 15.1.1.3

          I thought not paying a bill would also destroy a business relationship.

          • Tracey 15.1.1.3.1

            Agree. The December 22 to January 8 gap makes a little sense given NZ goes to sleep but before and after that, no excuse. And NOT when you KNOW your opponents are looking for this kind of thing.

            Meanwhile over at SkyCity and Novopay Joyce has pissed away a deal for a better than we will get white elephant and $43m

          • Colonial Rawshark 15.1.1.3.2

            Bill got paid right? Only 60% of invoices in NZ get paid on time. This was a genuine oversight by Little.

            • infused 15.1.1.3.2.1

              Yeah, very few are at 90 days buddy. That’s debt collection time.

              “This was a genuine oversight by Little.”

              Citation please?

              • Colonial Rawshark

                Then he should have gone to debt collectors. Instead he went public to the news media, breaking commercial confidence. A contractor who can’t be trusted with anything sensitive, clearly.

              • Tracey

                Alot of people dont bring in debt collectors at 90 days, cos small businesses cant afford to keep engaging baycorp.

              • Skinny

                Really and do you know how many SOE’s are late payers? Pretty much all of them because a good bean counter insists on it. Perhaps we should look into it.

            • greywarshark 15.1.1.3.2.2

              Karl du Fresne has brought some true commonsense into this matter.
              http://karldufresne.blogspot.co.nz/2015/02/whats-really-interesting-about-david.html
              It’s rarely that I feel moved to write in defence of a Labour Party leader, but TV3’s attempt to skewer Andrew Little over an unpaid bill is pure mischief-making.
              Two nights in a row, Patrick Gower has tried to beat this up into a major embarrassment for Little…
              If the affair of the unpaid bill is embarrassing to anyone, it’s Little’s chief of staff Matt McCarten. Everything Gower has reported suggests that’s where the blame lies for not paying freelance journalist David Cohen the $950 owed to him for advice given during Little’s bid for the party leadership last October.

              That’s as it should be. Party leaders can’t be expected to deal with the minutiae of housekeeping.

              du Fresne has referred it to where it belongs, I should think, and that is Matt McCarten. Who would have been in charge of the front and back office for all matters while Andrew Little kept on top of the political presentation and policy discussion with Party members etc and to media?

        • SHG 15.1.1.4

          A business relationship is work for pay. No pay? No relationship.

        • Tracey 15.1.1.5

          he should have said “I forgot. Not I forgot that I contacted Ian Fletcher to be head of GCSB or I forgot that I texted with Slater last night, but I forgot to pay a $950.00 invoice.”

          • SHG 15.1.1.5.1

            Yes, he should have said “I forgot”. Because then he’d be criticised for being forgetful, which isn’t a new thing for a Leader, instead of being criticised for being a hypocritical ex-union man who is really just another boss ripping off a worker.

          • CnrJoe 15.1.1.5.2

            Yep. Every moment can have a reminder tacked on. It’s what FJK is good at.

    • Tom Gould 15.2

      Perhaps the way to deal with an invoice from a provider such as Cohen would have been to get it paid immediately to avoid the risk? Or perhaps they didn’t perceive the risk? Which begs a bigger question.

      • greywarshark 15.2.1

        Perhaps we could get something more intelligent from RWs than prosy little homilies based on perfect situations.

    • SHG 15.3

      Bollocks to that. When an invoice is that overdue and it’s quite obvious that the debtor has no intention of paying, you use whatever leverage you have. Public shaming is sometimes the only debt-recovery method that works.

      Personally I thought Andrew Little’s “he was a contractor, not a worker” hairsplitting was sickening hypocrisy. From a union man, no less.

      • Tracey 15.3.1

        Will tv3 act as debt collector for everyone from now on? Or just debts of over 900 bucks owed by politicians?

      • Colonial Rawshark 15.3.2

        Personally I thought Andrew Little’s “he was a contractor, not a worker” hairsplitting was sickening hypocrisy. From a union man, no less.

        You’ve survived bigger hypocrisy from John Key without any nausea.

      • ankerawshark 15.3.3

        SHG @ 15.3

        I think that yes you can engage in public shaming to get your payment. What I am saying is it is not professional and if you behave unprofessionally then that will likely impact on your business. I know I own a business. I have had to chase bad debtors. Have you?

        I don’t see too many people being shamed in the media for not paying their bills. My god the newspapers would be full of it if every time someone didn’t pay a bill after 4 months.

        This is a non story and an attempt to attack Andrew Little. I feared this would happen. When the Labour leader is being attacked and harrased over nothing, my heart sinks. Another term of National

        • SHG 15.3.3.1

          I know I own a business. I have had to chase bad debtors. Have you?

          Yes and yes

          • ankerawshark 15.3.3.1.1

            Have you publically shamed bad debtors to get paid? Did it work? How did you go public?

            Have you tried other methods? Are you willing to say what your business is?

            Cohen’s was PR. Unprofessional tactic. End of story.

    • ankerawshark 15.4

      100+ Colonial Rawshark @ 15

    • LilaR 15.5

      Labour should never have been required to answer Gower’s nasty smear attempt at all. It had nothing to answer for.

  16. Stickler 16

    And if anyone was thinking of hiring Cohen, I’m betting they would now move quietly to the next name down the list….

    • Anno1701 16.1

      +1 to this, what a stupid move…

      • Colonial Rawshark 16.1.1

        Remarkable eh, from these self-proclaimed business savvy righties. Basically can’t trust them with anything which is media sensitive.

        • burt 16.1.1.1

          Such a turn around from you Colonial Rawshark

          Andrew Little: the future of work

          This quote from Little’s speech seems pretty funny now though;

          People on middle incomes, people who own a small business, people who work on contract, who are doing their best to earn a crust and get ahead, they are feeling forgotten.

          Feeling forgotten … well yes !

    • infused 16.2

      I’m sure he calculated that.

      Maybe people need to pay their bills on time.

      • Tracey 16.2.1

        or honour their contracts (see SkyCity being permitted to under-deliver on agreed terms by Key and Joyce)

      • lprent 16.2.2

        Ah the scavenger has arrived. Now we know the dirt smearing is on 😈

      • ankerawshark 16.2.3

        Sure infused they need to pay their bills on time, but the reality is they don’t. I know I am in business. If you are in business, expect great reliable prompt payers, slow payment and very slow payment and occasionally a bad debt. I am not saying its great. But it is a reality. You have to be patient and persistent.

        • infused 16.2.3.1

          Yes and no. You don’t need to be patient, and you do need to be persistent. We’ve had 1 bad debt in i’d guess now, 4-5 years.

      • LilaR 16.2.4

        I wouldn’t call paying within six weeks of receiving a bill not paying on time, and neither would any other business person unless, like Cohen, apparently, they had an axe to grind. Maybe Cohen deliberately sent the bill late so he could make Little look bad.

  17. Chris 17

    Just out of interest

    How does this change the fact Little didn’t payer a worker when he is supposed to be the working man’s leader?

    • He did pay him. A better question might be how does this C/T talking point affect the fact that the National Government changed employment law to make it even clearer that contractors are not workers?

      • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1

        Contractors arn’t workers, yep thats exactly how Little should play this 🙂

        • McFlock 17.1.1.1

          Not everyone here is that concerned that they’re giving advice to Little.

          But if the nats want to suddenly express outrage on behalf of a worker, maybe you pricks shouldn’t have passed the “Peter Jackson’s an Incompetent Boss” employment law change.

          • Tracey 17.1.1.1.1

            chuckle

            casual contract proliferation
            zero hour contracts
            low minimum wage
            90 day trial

          • Puckish Rogue 17.1.1.1.2

            Naah heres the thing though, Little has self-proclaimed himself to be the champion of the working man which means his dealings have to be squeaky clean otherwise he just runs the risk of looking like a hypocrite or worse incompetent

            But again this is all self-inflicted, the bill could have just been paid and nothing would have happened but, like Cunliffe and the secret trust, Little didn’t take care of business

            Or someones hung him out to dry

            • Tracey 17.1.1.1.2.1

              Key and Joyce have self proclaimed themselves as savvy businessmen able to run a country like a business and for good financial return.

              exhibit A

              Released SKYCity from a contractual obligation to provide a convention centre with a 3500 people capacity
              Paid over $45m (to date) for a failed pay system it rolled out too early and contrary to advice

              • Puckish Rogue

                You’re comparing apples with oranges, the voting know John Key and have voted accordingly, the voting public don’t know Andrew Little so for most this is what they’ll see of him and its not a good look at all

                But I think you know this already

                • ankerawshark

                  P R Its not a good look IMO that a contractor uses non payment of bils to score political points. As I have said earlier, I am a business owner, I issue lots of invoices, so people pay late. It is unprofessional to use the media to get payment.

            • McFlock 17.1.1.1.2.2

              “Little has self-proclaimed himself to be the champion of the working man”
              1: cite pls
              2: that redundancy is a crime against nature
              3: I bet national party legal fees will be more than a grand when they defend themselves against music piracy allegations, let alone the damages
              4: did Little ignore protocol and SSC advice to give the guy the job?
              5: the funny thing is that if there was not this trifling drivel to beat up, you pricks would be inventing or inflating other crap. Garner never actually did show us the letter he reckoned was being circulated, for example.

            • ankerawshark 17.1.1.1.2.3

              Get real Puckish rogue. I am a business owner. I know how things work. There are often late payers. When Andrew Little knew of the bill, he paid it right away. Unless you are wanting Andrew Little to persecute his own workers and volunteers who over looked this bill, give it a miss. Someone messed up. They were a volunteer. It happens. You must be desperate to be spinning this story to make AL look bad.

      • Chris 17.1.2

        When embarrassed into it by Joyce

        Little said in his State of the Nation contractors are workers and then 2 days ago says they aren’t

        How does that work?

        • te reo putake 17.1.2.1

          He didn’t say that, Chris, and the law defines workers and contractors differently. As an employment lawyer, Little knows the difference. As a repeater of troll lines, you’re happy to ignore the difference.

          • Chris 17.1.2.1.1

            It must have just been my imagination when he said the following

            “Little has used his first major speech as leader to reach beyond his union power base, challenging Labour to “update its definition of working people”

            “People on middle incomes, people who own a small business, people who work on contract who are doing their best to earn a crust and get ahead, they are feeling forgotten – mostly because in policy terms they are,” he said in a speech to an Auckland breakfast audience today.”

            Just as an aside. Either way is there some kind of moral difference between not paying a full time employee and not paying someone who is on contract?

            That is what he seems to imply

            • te reo putake 17.1.2.1.1.1

              Yep, it appears to be your imagination. The first quote is not from Little, the second quote is actually from Little but does not say “contractors are workers” as you claimed above. Contactors work, but, by law, they are not workers. National are very adamant about the difference; they even changed employment law to pretend one industry’s workers were contractors when the employment court said otherwise.

              As for “moral difference” and “imply” I don’t trust you. Show me actual quotes from Little that back up your claim.

              • Chris

                You and Little are saying that contractors aren’t workers.

                All good

                How does this change the fact he didn’t pay them till reminded by the opposition?

                Some how because they aren’t workers it makes a difference?

                • “You and Little are saying that contractors aren’t workers.”

                  Correct. Andrew and I both know the law. Now you know it. Isn’t the Standard great like that?

                  “Some how because they aren’t workers it makes a difference?”

                  Yep, there is a difference. Workers are paid on a regular basis (weekly, fortnightly etc.). Contactors are generally paid on the 20th of the month following an invoice being sent. So, it can be up to seven weeks after the work is done that it is even due to be paid. Mind you in NZ there is a lag in payment that can drag on for weeks beyond that, (particularly in media!) so there is nothing unusual in Cohen having to wait.

    • Tracey 17.2

      I thought John key was the working man’s leader, by the Right’s definition of working man?

    • Tracey 17.3

      How does SkyCity only building a 3000 capacity convention centre, rather than the 3500 needed to break even, and the $45m cost to fix up novopay cos the government ignored the developer and rolled it out before it was ready change the fact that Key and Joyce are appalling negotiators when they are supposed to be the gurus of the business world?

    • ankerawshark 17.4

      No Chris the question is how does someone on Little’s campaign team not paying an invoice, then Little paying it when he finds out c/p to Key knowing about Mike Sabin on December 1st and doing nothing about it. Disgusting.

  18. The Harpoon 18

    I notice Duncan Garner has also jumped on the bandwagon this afternoon shouting loudly, as was Corin Dann last night that Little’s ‘honeymoon’ is over! The best thing the left can do is not react. Brush it off as Key does with everything. So far I think Little is holding his own pretty well. These kind of stories for most people are a bit of a nothing in reality so while Gower is busy creaming his pants over his lazy brand of gotcha hackism the real world moves on, however slowly without him … eventually he’ll be left so far behind he’ll become nothing more than a distant memory in what have been otherwise dark times. Now breathe.

    • Tracey 18.1

      he needs to say

      “I forgot. I didnt forget I asked a friends brother to be head of our spy services, I didn’t forget I texted with Slater last night, I didn’t forget what the agreement with SkyCity was, i forgot to pay a $950.00 invoice. I am sorry and have apologised to David” (or whatever his name is).?

    • Rodel 18.2

      Harpoon
      Wow. powerful phraseology.Wish I’d said that..I think.

      “….while Gower is busy creaming his pants over his lazy brand of gotcha hackism the real world moves on….”

  19. Puckish Rogue 19

    Dot your Is and cross your Ts

    National will look for anything to pin on Little (any leader of Labour really), this is not news to anyone soooooo hows about the next Labour leader maybe not make it quite so easy for National

    I know its out of the box thinking for the left but I really feel that by making it harder for National to make the Labour leader look foolish it’ll make it easier for Labour to gain power

    Something to think about

    • Tracey 19.1

      has novopay and skycity made joyce and key look foolish or do they need to miss a 950 invoice for their incompetence or cronyism to make them look foolish?

      • Puckish Rogue 19.1.1

        Not really the point though is it and not really what the voting public will see either, they will see another Labour leader being a bit incompetent though

        • Tracey 19.1.1.1

          why won’t the voting public see their incompetence as self proclaimed savvy businessman able to negotiate tough for the benefit of NZers?

          • Puckish Rogue 19.1.1.1.1

            I think they compare National to Labour and think that its better the devil you know or choose the lesser of two weevils

            • felix 19.1.1.1.1.1

              It’s so weird how some commenters pick up these long bans for racism or violent sexual imagery or what have you, and they’re gone for months, and then somehow they know when their time is up and they’re immediately back to commenting all day long.

              I can only think of a couple of ways this happens, both equally sad.

    • Chch_Chiquita 19.2

      There is simply no way you will find a person that doesn’t make mistakes. Expecting Andrew Little to be purer than pure is not realistic; and the hypocrisy of the MSM that forgives Key for major brain fades and lies can be mind blowing.
      I have read here some good suggestions for responses; maybe Labour’s advisers should read this blog a bit more often (or hire some of the commenters here as their PR’s).

      • Puckish Rogue 19.2.1

        Its not a mistake to not pay your bills

        • McFlock 19.2.1.1

          what, like a teacher’s salary?

        • Chch_Chiquita 19.2.1.2

          You never had a bill that you forgot to pay? An invoice you got and said to yourself I will put that payment just as I finish X, got caught up in the mayhem of the day and forgot about it?

          • infused 19.2.1.2.1

            not when you got 30 reminders to pay it.

            • Ch-ch Chiquita 19.2.1.2.1.1

              30 reminders? So now you’r saying a reminder was sent almost every day or are you just making this up because you are unable to admit the storm in a tea cup is a bit childish.
              Who sends 30 reminders in a matter of weeks? You send an invoice, expecting to be paid 20th of following month, if payment isn’t made you send a reminder, give the person a few days and then pick up the phone to check what happened. Usually you will discover an honest mistake, sometimes an excuse that sound funny but who cares as long as it’s being paid and occasionally a case to take to debt collection. Sucks but part of the risks you take when running a business.

        • ankerawshark 19.2.1.3

          Pr Yes a volunteer on Andrew Little’s campaign team made a mistake.

          When Andrew found out about the bill he paid it.

          How does this c/p to John Key knowing what Mike Sabin was being investigated for on December 1st and not standing him down at all??????????

    • swordfish 19.3

      Puckers: “I know its out of the box thinking for the left but I really feel that by making it harder for National to make the Labour leader look foolish it’ll make it easier for Labour to gain power…Something to think about.”

      I see your stand-up routine’s really coming along nicely, Pucks. Can we expect to see you treading the boards on the Comedy Circuit in the near future ? All I’d suggest is you consider getting yourself a sparkly little costume and perhaps a toupee with highlights – showbiz chanteuse-style.

    • ankerawshark 19.4

      I think we have to c/p staff not dealing with an invoice, to Mr Sabin’s issues.

      I think the story ends there.

  20. FlashinthePan 20

    Who the fuck cares about $950? Left or Right? Why is this even a topic, it’s a nothing – sideshow pure and simple. Anyone who thinks this will be Little’s two snappers is fucking deluded.

    • Colonial Rawshark 20.1

      Can someone clarify for me – was the invoice for $826+GST, or was it for $950+GST?

      I am presuming it is actually for the former amount but could be mistaken.

    • Blue 20.2

      Who the fuck cares about $950?

      Paddy would never deign to waste his precious time on actual news.

      National can fuck up the entire country, but God help Labour if a staffer pays one invoice late.

      • Anne 20.2.1

        Yes. A staffer on Little’s leadership election committee stuffed up. Little has the decency to take the rap for it. Can you imagine any of the NAct pratts taking it on the chin and shouldering responsibility for an underling’s mistake?

        I admire Little for his principles and abhor the 3rd rate journos who jumped on his back. Jonolism I think they call it. I can think of a few better names but don’t want to be banned.

    • infused 20.3

      You would if it was some poor worker… oh wait…

      Reverse this to John Key… this blog would be literately frothing over it, calling john key every rich prick name under the sun.

      • LilaR 20.3.1

        Based on experience so far, they’d be flat out making excuses for JK.

      • North 20.3.2

        Such love exhibited for the worker FFS ! Ignore the snivelling liar-lovers ! 99.9 % of the time workers are just scum to them anyway……until crocodile tears seem meet. Nothing to do with workers at all. Just wanking ! And business for Cohen’ll be slowin’. Bloody good job !

  21. SHG 21

    National has a carefully-constructed research, communications, and media machine that enables it to exploit any mistake by a Labour identity and use it to National’s best advantage. Solution? Don’t make mistakes.

    Labour doesn’t have such a machine, so National can make mistakes and get away with it.

    No, it’s not fair. Boo hoo. We’re not playing tiddlywinks here Andre.

  22. Observer (Tokoroa) 22

    @ The Greens

    Whatever Gower has spun about Andrew Little, it is nothing compared to the hysteria whacked up by the rabid Greens yesterday.

    Blip and Turei have set themselves back a long long way …..

    The good to come out of it is – we now have a profile of infantile Green abuse. No point in wasting much time on the Greens again.

    • Colonial Rawshark 22.1

      You’re a bit stupid, eh. The Green Party is actually a very sane party. The truly insane parties are the ones who think that exponential economic growth is sustainable on a finite planet.

  23. RedBaronCV 23

    Anybody actually seen a copy of the invoice or did this guy just “expect to be paid” and didn’t send one in until late – a surprising number of people do that.

    And did it have all the requirements – gst No, “tax invoice” in words, add up, extend properly, have a valid bank account number, be addressed to the right entity, be readable etc etc. All the above dooms a large chunk of small invoices to the “have to get back to them pile”

    • burt 23.1

      Typical apologist response – blame the victim.

      • RedBaronCV 23.1.1

        Actually Burt the above is roughly the list of questions anyone processing accounts for payment in a business asks before they pay. If they are not answered correctly then the payment can’t or won’t go out. Asking if there is a pragmatic reason for the non payment may well not be on the media radar.

      • ankerawshark 23.1.2

        Also Burt Cohen was contacting McCarten, who was the wrong person. Should have been contacting the campaign team.

        FFS Burt. Get a grip. Having an unpaid invoice doesn’t make you a victim! Its par for the course in business!!! That as opposed to Mike Sabin’s victims. Aim your compassion at people who are deserving of it.

        • burt 23.1.2.1

          From Little’s ‘future of work’ speech;

          (Emphasis added)

          People on middle incomes, people who own a small business, people who work on contract, who are doing their best to earn a crust and get ahead, they are feeling forgotten.

          But apparently this guy is a “contractor” not a “worker” which makes him a second class citisen in the real self serving Labour world.

          Keep contradicting your leader saying this is a non issue – it was a big issue in his speech.

        • burt 23.1.2.2

          Also Burt Cohen was contacting McCarten

          Did McCarten think he was asking for tax to be paid – you know that contribution we must make for the benefit of society that McCarten decided he didn’t need to comply with while telling others they should pay more tax !

          You guys really are of the “Different when we do it” school aren’t you !

          • ankerawshark 23.1.2.2.1

            Burt keep going. Little paid the bill when he knew about it. Key knew about Sabin and didn’t sack him.

  24. ankerawshark 24

    Sick of this talk about an invoice. Lets talk about something that is really worth feeling horrified over. Mike Sabin. See an invoice doesn’t really c/p does it.

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