web analytics

Congrats to Kristine Bartlett & SFWU

Written By: - Date published: 2:42 pm, August 23rd, 2013 - 20 comments
Categories: equality, wages - Tags:

The Employment Court has issued a preliminary ruling on caregivers pay – saying that their pay should be compared to what it would be if their profession was male-dominated, not 92% women.

Kristine Bartlett is the test case with more than 20 years’ experience and skills bringing her a $14.32/hr wage.  The Service and Food Workers’ Union (SFWU) took it to the Employment Court to say that those skills and experience are under-valued.

The result is a huge precedent for gender pay equity.

John Ryall of the SFWU is now inviting thousands of caregivers to join the Equal Pay case against their employers and the DHBs (who contract out the work).

So may I join the CTU, Pay Equity Challenge Coalition, NZNO etc in hearty congratulations on a big win on an important issue.

20 comments on “Congrats to Kristine Bartlett & SFWU ”

  1. alwyn 1

    I don’t want to comment on the merits or otherwise of this case.
    The problem I see no solution to is one of measurement. How do you decide what the pay would be if the profession was predominately male-dominated?
    The favourite mantra is “equal pay for work of equal value”. Fine sounding words but how do you measure it? I have worked in companies that claimed that they were trying to implement this. In paractice however they involved putting values on such thing as financial resposibility, skill and so on. I may be cynical but whatever they used the weightings applied to the various factors were such that personnel, as “Human Resources” was called in those dark days always rated very, very highly.
    Even the ones that seem most appropriate, such as equating primary and secondary teachers seem to become unusable when one says that University staff should also be treated the same.
    Once you get away from the basics it gets even more difficult. I have seen arguments that we can equate social workers and police. Why are they regarded as similar? How many social workers have to go into a crowd of drunks, by themselves, at night and try and break up a brawl?
    I think that many people are underpaid. That needs fixing but settling on somebodys opinion of what a pay rate would be if other people did the work is impossible.
    Of course if you give me the job it will be easy. I will decide that MPs are the equivalent of low level managers and drop their pay to $50,000/year immediately.

    • karol 1.1

      Just because it’s hard, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be tried. It’s glaringly obvious that traditionally female-dominated jobs are paid lower than male dominated ones. It is especially caring professions that suffer. They are more important to the social good than their pay-status indicates.

      Congratulations Bartlett and the SFWU.

      • Lanthanide 1.1.1

        “It’s glaringly obvious that traditionally female-dominated jobs are paid lower than male dominated ones.”

        Are they low paid because women do the work, or because they are low paid, most men aren’t motivated to put in the effort to do it?

        • karol 1.1.1.1

          Ah, sometimes it’s a bit of chicken and egg. It’s often low paid and given to women, because the jobs have low status. When there’s a shift in jobs, men can vacate a once high status job for the newer, flasher ones. For instance, one secretaries/typists were men – it was considered a skilled job for educated men.

          With the expansion of typewriters and secretarial jobs, men shifted more to managerial and marketing jobs (Mad Men), and women filled the secretarial/typing jobs. Later, with the development of computers, more men returned to using keyboards, but tended to gravitate to the more high status computer programing jobs…. and on it goes.

          Caring jobs continue to have low status, unless its surgeons, specialists, etc.

    • QoT 1.2

      I don’t want to comment on the merits or otherwise of this case.

      Funny, that’s exactly what you did by trying to undermine the whole concept of establishing whether work is of equal value.

      See the Talley’s discrimination case as an example: the High Court was quite able to find that the two roles were equivalent in terms of the skills and experience required, except one was just coincidentally paid less and staffed with women.

      (Of course the truth is that a secretive cabal of lesbian witches cast magical spells around a cauldron to trick you into paying us millions while we sit around eating bonbons.)

      • alwyn 1.2.1

        The Talleys’ case was not a problem as they were ruled to be, effectively, the same job.
        There is no problem when people are doing the same job. The only problem is when you are trying to compare different jobs, and the comparison points become someones opinions.
        Is it really true about the cabal (your last sentence)?
        Wow I always thought it was a myth but it is now confirmed!

        • QoT 1.2.1.1

          But they weren’t doing the “same job”, alwyn, they were doing jobs which were effectively the same. And experts were able to assess this.

          And yes. The cabal totally exists which is why traditionally women-dominated jobs are now paid double what traditionally male-dominated jobs get. So this entire post is just a figment of your imagination.

  2. Tracey 2

    Thanks for posting on this Ben.

    If ou compare police training and salary and conditions with, say, nurses. You can get an idea of disparity between male and female value and recompense

    Nurses see death and blood and suffering, they clean up shit and urine, the work shifts…

    The disparity between this female dominated profession and the male dominated police begins with training. One has little training and is paid the other has three years and has to borrow.

    So, not as hard as we might think.

    • alwyn 2.1

      You would agree, I’m sure, that police “see death and blood and suffering, they clean up shit and urine, they work shifts”.
      So what? Both nurses and thepolice do these and other things but we simply get into a pointless wrangle if we start listing them. I suppose you could say that police have to know the law and nurses don’t. Again so what.
      My only real concern is how you compare DIFFERENT jobs. You can’t say, for example, that training takes longer and expect this to be the overiding component in job evaluation.
      On that basis you would probably have to pay a Catholic priest a couple of hundred thousand a year.
      Sorry but it is hard.

      • Actually nurses need to know quite a bit of law relevant to what they do, are required to work long or irregular hours, and the job can involve lifting people with enough frequency that honestly it has pretty high physical requirements. The comparison with police officers is not unreasonable and in some ways it’s harder to be a nurse.

  3. One Anonymous Knucklehead 3

    Great news, although the cynic in me is already wondering how this government will try and undermine the ruling.

  4. Mike S 4

    It’s great that the employment court has made this ruling. However I don’t see how it can be implemented in the real world? It’s my understanding that as long as an employee is being paid at least the minimum wage then a court can’t force an employer to pay them a certain rate. They can though rule for compensation in regards to gender discrimination so I guess that might be the form the extra pay would come in??

  5. Murray Olsen 5

    Good decision, and one where we on the left shouldn’t make the bosses’ arguments for them. They’ll try and undermine it all by themselves and we won’t get paid what we’re all worth until we get rid of the profit motive. For the life of me, I can’t see how I’m worth as much as a nurse, let alone more. I can see how I’m worth more than a cop, especially the ones who bury .22 cartridges in gardens and put Teina Pora in prison.

  6. xtasy 6

    I am afraid this is only a TINY achievement, and one reason is the low minimum wage. We have this issue of comparing wages, minimum wages, salaries and more, which often appear totally disconnected to the efforts and work put into it, by the workers concerned.

    While this may look like some achievement, it does not really address the sytemic issues, as the system is leaving carers and others underpaid, and the government gets away with it. Also they rely on the tax payers bailing them you, as the additional costs are portrayed ad prohibitive.

    So it is a dishonest debate and agenda, really. I expect a bit more than this, also from the writer.

  7. xtasy 7

    Why is it, in this country, so many desperate workers, get driven to extremes, they get sick, age quickly, get disparaged, destroyed and so on, while business “flourishes? There is a sick trend in NZ society, and it better be damned stopped.

    • Mike S 7.1

      Not just NZ society, most other western countries too. Corporate profits hit record highs all the time, even in the middle of the so called financial crisis, whilst workers wages stagnate or decrease in real terms. Greedy business owners are not sharing increased profits with their workers.

      Reminds me of something I read recently:

      They take our skills,
      They Take our labor,
      They take our knowledge,
      They take our pride,
      They take our talent,
      Our best ideas,
      They take our time,
      They take our lives.
      In the end
      They take our jobs,
      These ‘makers’ –
      Then turn around
      And call us , ‘takers’.

  8. tracey 8

    Alwyn

    it appears you read my post but perhaps misunderstood my meaning. You asked how it could be measured and I gave you a simple comparison by example which points to underlying attitude.

    there is plenty of research on this. I will try to find time to post some for you.

    the legal profession does regular member surveys. For example to find out what lawyers with same qualifications and the same years legal experience are paid. In the last 20 years the difference in favour of men is 10k to 20k.

    whats hard is not the measuring but the changing of attitudes. Many employers do it but give themselves justifications to do it.

    saying something is too hard is what keeps the status quo… even when its not too hard. People like the easy option by nature and are instinctive ly resistant to change.

  9. tracey 9

    This kind of decision is one of many reasons this govt is anti judiciary. Parliament is supposed to society’s conscience and the judiciary the safety net when parliament fails.

    qot

    plus 1

    your addendum
    plus 100

  10. tracey 10

    You would agree, I’m sure, that police “see death and blood and suffering, they clean up shit and urine, they work shifts”.”

    Absolutely which is why I used the exsmples

  11. Foreign Waka 11

    Many societies have an approach where people become “economic units”. Women had and still have an underclass role in that hierarchical setting. Coupled with traditions and beliefs the result is that women are bestowed with the expectation that caring for the very young and old is “their role” after all. Of cause this includes the financial approach that this is to be unpaid. However, since women have become “economic units” this has changed somewhat and warrants now the lowest level of contribution (cynical). In the relevant case the hourly pay just reverberates that attitude. (spit on the floor).
    One should not forget that everybody will come to that stage in their lives where they depend on help as they once had at the beginning of the journey. To do this in dignity should be honored with an appropriate recognition within society. If one wants to compare the pay, compare it to a midwife. One helps with the start and the other one with the end of life.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Alert Level 2 in Wellington, Wairarapa and Kāpiti Coast
    Alert Level 2 measures are now in place for Wellington, Wairarapa and Kāpiti Coast to the north of Ōtaki, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. These measures are precautionary, following the potential exposure of New Zealanders to a COVID-19 case from Sydney. The person visited a range of locations in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Speech to the India New Zealand Business Council Summit
    5pm, Wednesday 23 June 2021 [CHECK AGAINST DELIVERY] Tuia te Rangi e tū nei Tuia te Papa e takoto nei Tuia te here tangata Ka rongo te pō, ka rongo te Ao Tihei Mauri Ora   Introduction Namaskar, tēnā koe and good evening. Thank you for your kind invitation to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Agencies to have powers to secure maritime domain
    A Bill introduced to Parliament today aims to prevent serious criminal offending at sea, including transnational offending and organised crime, Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced. “Aotearoa New Zealand will be better placed to keep our maritime environment secure against threats like drugs trafficking, wildlife trafficking and human trafficking with the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • Critical support for New Zealand’s budding researchers
    Fellowships to attract and retain talented researchers in the early stages of their career, have been awarded to 30 New Zealanders, Associate Research, Science and Innovation Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. “I am pleased to congratulate these researchers, who will be receiving funding through the MBIE Science Whitinga Fellowship. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Bill to stop taxpayers having to fund oil field decommissions
    The Government is preventing taxpayers picking up the bill for the decommissioning of oil fields, says Energy and Resource Minister Dr Megan Woods.  “After the Crown had to take responsibility for decommissioning the Tui oil field, it became clear to me that the current requirements around decommissioning are inadequate and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Quarantine Free Travel from New South Wales to New Zealand to pause
    New Zealand’s Quarantine Free Travel from New South Wales to New Zealand will be paused while the source of infection of new cases announced in Sydney is investigated, says COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins. There are 10 new community cases of COVID-19 today in New South Wales, taking the Australian ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Milestone reached for Iwi Affiliation Population Counts
    Iwi affiliation data released today provides updated population counts for all iwi and addresses gaps in Māori data originating from the 2018 Census, says Associate Minister of Statistics Meka Whaitiri. “The release of the 2018 Iwi Affiliation Estimated Counts is a really important step, and I acknowledge the hard work ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Ngāti Rangitihi Claims Settlement Bill passes first reading
    Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Minister Andrew Little welcomed Ngāti Rangitihi to Parliament today to witness the first reading of The Ngāti Rangitihi Claims Settlement Bill. “I know it took a lot of hard work, time and patience by all parties involved to reach this significant milestone. I am honoured to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Speech to the Sustainable Healthcare and Climate Health Conference Aotearoa
    Mihi Tēnā tātou katoa Kei ngā pou o te whare hauora ki Aotearoa, kei te mihi. Tēnā koutou i tā koutou pōwhiri mai i ahau. E mihi ana ki ngā taura tangata e hono ana i a tātou katoa, ko te kaupapa o te rā tērā. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Infrastructure Acceleration Fund opening for business
    Criteria to access at least $1 billion of the $3.8 billion Housing Acceleration Fund (HAF), announced in March, is now available, and an invitation for expressions of interest will be released on 30 June, Housing Minister Megan Woods has announced.  “This is a key milestone in our plan to accelerate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Bringing back the health of Hauraki Gulf
    New marine protection areas and restrictions on fishing are among a raft of changes being put in place to protect the Hauraki Gulf for future generations. The new strategy, Revitalising the Gulf – Government action on the Sea Change Plan, released today, draws on input from mana whenua, local communities, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to AI Forum – Autonomous Weapons Systems
    AI Forum New Zealand, Auckland Good evening and thank you so much for joining me this evening. I’d like to start with a thank you to the AI Forum Executive for getting this event off the ground and for all their work and support to date. The prospect of autonomous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand boosts support to Fiji for COVID-19 impact
    Aotearoa New Zealand is providing additional support to Fiji to mitigate the effects of the current COVID-19 outbreak on vulnerable households, Foreign Minister Hon Nanaia Mahuta announced today. “Recognising the increasingly challenging situation in Fiji, Aotearoa will provide an additional package of assistance to support the Government of Fiji and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Round 2 of successful energy education fund now open
    $1.65 million available in Support for Energy Education in Communities funding round two Insights from SEEC to inform future energy hardship programmes Community organisations that can deliver energy education to households in need are being invited to apply for the second funding round of the Support for Energy Education in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Ngarimu scholarships to target vocational training
    Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis today announced three new scholarships for students in vocational education and training (VET) are to be added to the suite of prestigious Ngarimu scholarships. “VET learners have less access to study support than university students and this is a way to tautoko their learning dreams ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Recognising the volunteers who support our health system
    Nominations have opened today for the 2021 Minister of Health Volunteer Awards, as part of National Volunteer Week. “We know that New Zealanders donate at least 159 million hours of volunteer labour every year,” Minister of Health Andrew Little said in launching this year’s awards in Wellington. “These people play ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Drug Free Sport supported to deal with new doping challenges
    Drug Free Sport New Zealand will receive a funding boost to respond to some of the emerging doping challenges across international sport. The additional $4.3 million over three years comes from the Sport Recovery Fund announced last year. It will help DFSNZ improve athletes’ understanding of the risks of doping, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government support for South Auckland community hit by tornado
    The Government is contributing $100,000 to a Mayoral Relief Fund to support Auckland communities impacted by the Papatoetoe tornado, Acting Minister for Emergency Management Kris Faafoi says. “My heart goes out to the family and friends who have lost a loved one, and to those who have been injured. I ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Celebrating World Refugee Day
    World Refugee Day today is an opportunity to celebrate the proud record New Zealanders have supporting and protecting refugees and acknowledge the contribution these new New Zealanders make to our country, the Minister of Immigration Kris Faafoi said. “World Refugee Day is also a chance to think about the journey ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Face to face meeting delivers significant progress on NZ-UK FTA
    New Zealand and the UK have committed to accelerating their free trade agreement negotiations with the aim of reaching an agreement in principle this August, Trade Minister Damien O’Connor announced. “We’ve held constructive and productive discussions towards the conclusion of a high-quality and comprehensive FTA that will support sustainable and inclusive trade, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government taking action to protect albatross
    New population figures for the critically endangered Antipodean albatross showing a 5 percent decline per year highlights the importance of reducing all threats to these very special birds, Acting Minister of Conservation Dr Ayesha Verrall says. The latest population modelling, carried out by Dragonfly Data Science, shows the Antipodean albatross ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Adoption laws under review
    New Zealand’s 66-year-old adoption laws are being reviewed, with public engagement beginning today.  Justice Minister Kris Faafoi said the Government is seeking views on options for change to our adoption laws and system. “The Adoption Act has remained largely the same since 1955. We need our adoption laws to reflect ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Wider roll-out of cameras on boats to support sustainability and protect marine life
    Up to 300 inshore commercial fishing vessels will be fitted with on-board cameras by 2024 as part of the Government’s commitment to protect the natural marine environment for future generations.  Minister for Oceans and Fisheries David Parker today announced the funding is now in place for the wider roll out ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Plan for vaccine rollout for general population announced
    New Zealanders over 60 will be offered a vaccination from July 28 and those over 55 from August 11, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. The rollout of the vaccine to the general population will be done in age groups as is the approach commonly used overseas, with those over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand introduces Belarus travel bans
    New Zealand has imposed travel bans on selected individuals associated with the Lukashenko regime, following ongoing concerns about election fraud and human rights abuses after the 2020 Belarus elections, Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta has announced. The ban covers more than fifty individuals, including the President and key members of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ economy grows driven by households, construction and business investment
    The Government’s efforts to secure the recovery have been reflected in the robust rebound of GDP figures released today which show the economy remains resilient despite the ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, Grant Robertson said. GDP increased 1.6 percent in the first three months of 2021. The Treasury had ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Milestone 250th tower continues to improve rural connectivity
    The Government has welcomed the completion of the 250th 4G mobile tower, as part of its push for better rural connectivity. Waikato’s Wiltsdown, which is roughly 80 kilometres south of Hamilton, is home to the new tower, deployed by the Rural Connectivity Group to enable improved service to 70 homes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Quarantine Free Travel pause with Victoria to lift on Tuesday
    Following a further public health assessment of the COVID-19 outbreak in greater Melbourne, New Zealand’s Quarantine Free Travel pause with Victoria has been extended to 11.59pm on Tuesday 22 June, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. It has been determined that the risk to public health in New Zealand continues ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Prime Minister mourns passing of Dr Sir Ian Hassall
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is mourning the passing of Dr Sir Ian Hassall, New Zealand’s first Children’s Commissioner and lifelong champion for children and children’s health. As a paediatrician Sir Ian contributed to a major world-first cot death study that has been directly credited with reducing cot deaths in New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • APEC structural reform meeting a success
    APEC ministers have agreed working together will be crucial to ensure economies recover from the impact of COVID-19. Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs David Clark, chaired the virtual APEC Structural Reform Ministerial Meeting today which revolved around the overarching theme of promoting balanced, inclusive, sustainable, innovative and secure growth ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Digital hub to boost investment in forestry
    A new website has been launched at Fieldays to support the forestry sector find the information it needs to plant, grow and manage trees, and to encourage investment across the wider industry. Forestry Minister Stuart Nash says the new Canopy website is tailored for farmers, iwi and other forestry interests, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government continues support for rangatahi to get into employment, education and training
    Over 230 rangatahi are set to benefit from further funding through four new He Poutama Rangatahi programmes, Minister for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “We’re continuing to secure our economic recovery from COVID by investing in opportunities for rangatahi to get into meaningful employment, education or training ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NCEA subjects up for consultation
    The education sector, students, their parents, whānau and communities are invited to share their thoughts on a list of proposed NCEA subjects released today, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. This is a significant part of the Government’s NCEA Change Programme that commenced in 2020 and will be largely implemented by ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major investment in plantain forage programme aims to improve freshwater quality
    The Government is backing a major programme investigating plantain’s potential to help farmers protect waterways and improve freshwater quality, Acting Agriculture Minister Meka Whaitiri announced at Fieldays today. The Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures (SFFF) fund is contributing $8.98 million to the $22.23 million seven-year programme, which aims to deliver ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • America’s Cup decision
    The Minister responsible for the America’s Cup has confirmed the joint Crown-Auckland Council offer to host the next regatta has been declined by the Board of Team New Zealand. “The exclusive period of negotiation between the Crown, Auckland Council, and Team New Zealand ends tomorrow, 17 June,” said Stuart Nash. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Food and fibres sector making significant strides towards New Zealand’s economic recovery
    The Government is backing the food and fibres sector to lead New Zealand's economic recovery from COVID-19 with targeted investments as part of its Fit for a Better World roadmap, Forestry Minister Stuart Nash said. “To drive New Zealand’s recovery, we launched the Fit for a Better World – Accelerating ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to He Whenua Taurikura – New Zealand’s annual hui on countering terrorism and violent...
    Check against delivery Can I begin by acknowledging the 51 shuhada, their families and the Muslim community. It is because of the atrocious violent act that was done to them which has led ultimately to this, the start of a dialogue and a conversation about how we as a nation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Cost of Government Southern Response proactive package released
    The Government has announced the proactive package for some Southern Response policyholders could cost $313 million if all those eligible apply. In December, the Minister Responsible for the Earthquake Commission, David Clark announced a proactive package for SRES claimants who settled their claims before October 2014. It trailed the judgment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • First period products delivered to schools
    The first period products funded as part of the Government’s nationwide rollout are being delivered to schools and kura this week, as part of wider efforts to combat child poverty, help increase school attendance, and make a positive impact on children’s wellbeing. “We know that nearly 95,000 9-to-18 year olds ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New support to reduce emissions from public building and construction projects
    Government agencies are getting new support to reduce carbon emissions generated by construction of new buildings, with the release of practical guidance to shape decisions on public projects. The Ministers for Building and Construction and for Economic Development say a new Procurement Guide will help government agencies, private sector suppliers, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago