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Daily review 03/09/2020

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, September 3rd, 2020 - 101 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

101 comments on “Daily review 03/09/2020 ”

  1. Anne 1

    Oh look! Another attempt to discredit Labour. Whatever arrangement the Hutt South LP has with Parliamentary Services it is legit and has been going on for decades. And it can be said with certainty that other political parties will be doing it too.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300098040/taxpayer-foots-bill-for-labour-electorate-funds-in-decadesold-subletting-arrangement

    What is more, according to Parliamentary Services, it saves the tax-payer a lot of money.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      If they want to end this sort of thing then the only option is for parliament to own the building and make it available to the local electorate MP.

      That'd upset National because then they wouldn't be able to make government guaranteed profits on buildings that the government has effectively paid for but doesn't own.

    • Cinny 1.2

      I wonder if Dr custard charges a fee? nick smith often has groups etc meeting at his electorate HQ. For example……

      http://www.orchidcouncil.org.nz/societies/southern-region/nelson/

      Might ring dr custard tomorrow and find out.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

        Of course he does and makes a nice profit.

        Probably donates to the National Party as well.

    • Muttonbird 1.3

      This'll be Chris Bishop's office getting increasingly desperate. This is the office which hacked Budget 2019. They love to watch the world burn.

  2. Cinny 2

    BREAKING – Damien is temporarily stopping all live stock exports and applications until they find out what happened regarding the ship of live cattle sailing into a typhoon and sinking.

    Much love to the families of the 41 crew who are missing. One person has been found, hopefully they will find some more survivors.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/122649647/one-person-rescued-from-missing-ship-with-two-new-zealanders-onboard

    • Stuart Munro 2.1

      Some info here – capsized apparently.

      • Cinny 2.1.1

        Good link, thanks Stuart. What a horrid situation for all.

      • Muttonbird 2.1.2

        Is part of the problem with live exports that stock can't be kept longer on the ship? This means navigating around a Typhoon is not possible. I would have thought most shipping would avoid such weather systems.

        • Cinny 2.1.2.1

          Is part of the problem with live exports that stock can't be kept longer on the ship? This means navigating around a Typhoon is not possible.

          That makes sense.

        • Stuart Munro 2.1.2.2

          Maybe Master miscalculated typhoon trajectory, or maybe he hoped the ship will overtake it. Whatever were the reasons, the ship sailed straight into the typhoon.

          Largely speaking, large modern ships can ignore bad weather. But taifun are an exception. What the survivor describes is the ship broaching (https://www.wartsila.com/encyclopedia/term/broaching-to-phenomenon) – caught abeam by the seas and rolled over – the way square riggers used to go down in the southern latitudes.

          Although there probably wasn't a handy port to offload the stock, had the master avoided/waited out the storm, he'd have saved his ship and most of the stock. No doubt he was under pressure to make the quickest voyage possible.

          Plus ca changethe Dutchman had sold his soul for a faster voyage.

          • Cinny 2.1.2.2.1

            They call avoiding bad weather 'dodging' in the fishing industry.

            It cut's into profits by costing fuel and time. Can also cost extra food stores depending on how many days they have provisions for.

            • Stuart Munro 2.1.2.2.1.1

              Yup. 2-3 days delay tops, the storms move or dissipate quite quickly – neither fuel nor animal starvation would have been a factor – though lengthening the voyage would likely increase stock mortality, and with rough weather stress, perhaps considerably.

              The captain does not own the boat though, and these days it's unlikely the owners were mariners. There's a good chance he was ordered to push on through – going into what is essentially a hurricane in a not very weatherly vessel is otherwise difficult to explain.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2

      The ship, Gulf Livestock 1, carrying about 5867 cattle left Napier on August 14.

      The ship was en route to the Port of Jingtang in Tangshan, China, with an estimated journey of approximately 17 days.

      The continued export of cattle may be a risk to New Zealand’s brand.

      Bet they were dairy cattle.

      As I say, the problem with being a farm for the world is that everyone else can also produce food.

      If we really want to become wealthy then we have to develop our economy away from its reliance upon agricultural exports and that's going to mean high tech R&D and production.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.1

          That doesn't really surprise me. Pork farms have been disappearing from NZ for awhile now but especially as cities have expanded into farmland. Pork farms stink and nobody wants to live near them – especially rich people who want a nice lifestyle block.

          • ianmac 2.2.1.1.1

            In the USA under Bush all the rules about effluent were dropped so end of clean water. Family pig farms were gobbled up and vast pig farms were established. There are very few family pig farms left and the vast corporate pig farms are so big that nobody in towns or countryside can contest the huge flows of pig swill that poison huge rivers.

            Private ownership is so good!

            • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.1.1.1

              Sounds like the USA is back to the Good Old Days:

              The story’s points were valid, however, and even more shocking than the photo spread. Aside from the Cuyahoga, in which there were no signs of visible life — “not even low forms such as leeches and sludge worms that usually thrive on wastes” — unregulated dumping befouled nearly every river that passed through a major metropolitan area. The Potomac, TIME noted, left Washington “stinking from the 240 million gallons of wastes that are flushed into it daily” while “Omaha’s meatpackers fill the Missouri River with animal grease balls as big as oranges.”

              We've seen it before – unregulated capitalism is purely destructive.

  3. Patricia Bremner 3

    Yes We are sad for those families. It is tragic.

    On another topic…Has anyone noticed how very little has been said about Judith's husband ‘s memes on Facebook, by TV1/3 and RNZ?

    Has anyone noticed how the press skimmed over Judith's advertisement which broke Parliament's rules?

    I see National is offering Mums 3 days in care, $3000 for costs, which is means tested. Do they intend to keep the $60 a week for under threes? Or is this a one off and nothing for year two/three????

    • Cinny 3.1

      Always skeptical of nat policy, they usually give with one hand and take more with the other.

      Not much coverage re judiths uncontrollable husband and his obvious lack of class. judith retweeted his meme's. But, but… the school, the school.. distract and delude. Meanwhile the nat's are spending up big on FB advertising.

      Could be more coverage in the weekend on the political shows and panels maybe?

    • Pat 4.1

      it is…and I may sue for copyright.

      "They are exasperated that Shaw has spent three years saying he couldn’t put his foot down over issues such as welfare reform, water-bottling plants or getting agriculture into the ETS – that mean old Winston was bullying him – but found the strength to fight back… on behalf of a private school."

      And that says it all about Shaws political judgment…could he have chosen a worse issue to take a stand over?….its difficult to imagine one

      • Robert Guyton 4.1.1

        He didn't chose this issue to make a stand over. It was part of the ordinary business of Government. Do you really think James thought, "Right! I'll put my foot down on this one! I'm willing to die in a ditch for this!" No, Pat. No.

        • Pat 4.1.1.1

          carry on Robert….you are convincing no-one…not even I suspect yourself

          • Robert Guyton 4.1.1.1.1

            I'm answering your question, Pat, not trying to convince anyone of anything. James didn't choose this issue to take a stand over. Perhaps you think he did?

              • Robert Guyton

                For how long did James delay the process, Pat? One day? 3 hours? What's the usual process for gaining the consent of every member of the team? Did James "put his foot down", or did he say, sorry to be a spanner in the works…"?

                • Pat

                  good grief

                  • Robert Guyton

                    Your "rrrright" and "good grief" are not very well considered answered to my polite questions, Pat. Perhaps you could string together a few more words and make, you know, sentences.

                    • Pat

                      Have you ever wondered why the Greens struggle to attract anything more than barely above threshold support Robert?

                    • solkta

                      OH, it's because they use sentences!

                    • Robert Guyton

                      Nope, Pat, that's not a question I struggle with, ever. I know that at any time, only around 10% of the population will be supportive of the kinds of alternate world-view The Greens champion. It's been this way for minority groups, since forever.

                    • greywarshark

                      Robert I wish you would give yourself a break. If you think that Pat will ever be able to learn anything he/she doesn't want to know, you are mistaken. You know it is a waste of time.

                    • Robert Guyton

                      Pat's sincere and so am I. The actual story will become apparent eventually.

                  • Jester

                    You are fighting a losing battle Pat. If James Shaw ate a baby live on TV, Robert would be ok with it.

                    To me the issue is he held up other projects and demanded other ministers agreed to fund it against all advice. Which is why Robertson and Hipkins have not helped him.

                    • In Vino

                      That is silly, Jester

                      Of course, you are jesting anyway. But don't pretend that the little bits we are getting through the media give you any right to announce anything with your assumed certainty.

                      I doubt that even Pat agrees with you about the eating baby metaphor.

  4. ScottGN 5

    So much for Shaw’s mea culpa to the party though eh? He tried to dump it on poor old Chippie.

  5. Alan 6

    Hipkins dumping on Shaw now

  6. ScottGN 7

    Yeah. Can you blame him?

  7. ScottGN 8

    Shaw has been a bit like a rabbit caught in the headlights with this. You don’t have to be Einstein to figure out that the zoom commentary was a half arsed attempt to deflect some of the blame. And his standup the other day was cringy really.
    When you think of the PM fronting every bloody day, good times and bad, you realise what a totally class act she is.

    • weka 8.1

      "You don’t have to be Einstein to figure out that the zoom commentary was a half arsed attempt to deflect some of the blame."

      Were you on that call? Because I was, and what I saw was a man who wanted to give an explanation, apologise and make set things right in various ways. He actually went out if his way to not blame others, which is consistent with who he is.

      • Robert Guyton 8.1.1

        I wasn't on the call, weka, yet felt confident James would behave exactly as you describe.

      • Adrian Thornton 8.1.2

        OK so you are telling us he is a great guy, fine we believe you, but no one has answered this simple question…maybe you can help as you where there.

        Did James Shaw inform the Green party members on the Zoom meeting last Friday that he had told Government ministers and the Treasury that he wouldn't sign off on other infrastructure projects until the Green School funding was included?

        There hasn't been any denials from Shaw or the Greens around the veracity of these emails so we can only assume them to be legitimate.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12361614

        • solkta 8.1.2.1

          we believe you

          Would that be the royal We?

        • Robert Guyton 8.1.2.2

          Adrian: did James send an email?
          If so, what did it say?

        • Incognito 8.1.2.3

          There hasn’t been any denials from Shaw or the Greens around the veracity of these emails so we can only assume them to be legitimate.

          The e-mail came from Shaw’s Ministerial Office, didn’t it? If so, how can the Greens confirm or deny the veracity of it? It is not the Party’s business, at all.

          The e-mail is most likely legit but we have only seen selected snippets. Context is important and I wouldn’t draw too many conclusions based on what has been published so far by MSM. Remember this recent Post here: https://thestandard.org.nz/nationals-latest-deception/?

          The National tweet was a selective quote of an answer made in Parliament. However, without the context of the full answer provided it was highly misleading. That’s why I find it safer to see the full and complete information before I jump to conclusions.

          • Robert Guyton 8.1.2.3.1

            Very wise and reasonable of you, Incognito. Your is the approach of a reasonable, thoughtful, emotionally-balanced person. You (and some others here) are a great comfort to someone like me who cringes at the comments from knee-jerky, sizzle-headed reactionaries who lack your poise smiley

            • Incognito 8.1.2.3.1.1

              Too much praise and some of which is a little, just a little, off the mark 😉

              That said, being a Moderator here does temper my knee-jerk urges somewhat lest I’d be accused of being a hypocrite or worse: elite!

              Be the change you want to see. I can’t say it is easy because sometimes I want to … scream!!

              • Draco T Bastard

                Too much praise and some of which is a little, just a little, off the mark

                As you say, Master Jedi

                devil

          • Jester 8.1.2.3.2

            Tova O'Brien seems to have the email. Would be interesting as to who leaked it to her.

        • Robert Guyton 8.1.2.4

          James had this to say:

          "I didn't sign off that final list, which included the Green School, until I was satisfied that all of my questions about a range of projects had been answered," he said in a statement.

          "The first infrastructure projects were announced over five weeks before I signed the briefing that included the Green School, so to suggest I was holding up the process is absurd."

          He later added: "To suggest that by asking questions I was giving an ultimatum is absurd.""

          My bold.

  8. ScottGN 9

    Oh Robert, for crying out loud! Shaw has been nothing but amateur hour since the shit hit the fan. It’s a shame, I really rate him as a minister and thinks he and other Green assoc ministers bring a lot to the government. But it’s the Metiria situation all over again isn’t it? Something goes awry and the Greens simply can’t manage the blowtorch of parliamentary politics and media scrutiny.

    • Robert Guyton 9.1

      James should be able to "manage the blowtorch of parliamentary politics and media scrutiny"?

      Really?

      The usual methods for doing that, as exemplified by John Key, are obfuscation, blame-shifting, denial, attack, attacking the media, disappearing for the duration etc. You want James to behave in the way the likes of Gerry Brownlee, Judith Collins, Todd Barclay et al have shown? I have more confidence and faith in him that that and give my support to James in a very difficult time, in a way that you do not. Do you reckon it's a breeze, dealing with these attacks? Imagine James' reaction to realising that his own people are not behind him, are willing to snipe and snark alongside of the most witless of the Nats! Gotta feel for the guy (I do).

      • Grafton Gully 9.1.1

        I want James to behave in a way that strengthens the Green Movement in NZ. Woowoocrystalgate weakens it.

        • Robert Guyton 9.1.1.1

          Do you really think you have a credible role in this discussion, Grafton Gully? Yours has a "hired-clown" sort of feel to it.

        • weka 9.1.1.2

          no sense of irony then GG.

          • greywarshark 9.1.1.2.1

            I think that the Greens should step down and be replaced by all the eminence greasys full of wisdom and clear about the way forward. Why do we waste time with politicians trying to move in any direction when we can have eternal arguments continuing as we walk off the edge of the cliff into space, down to the sea or the rocks, whatever.

        • Jester 9.1.1.3

          As Robert says, his own people are not behind him but that's hardly surprising as he went against Greens policy and may have cost them their seats in Parliament. He really has had a Meteria Tuerei moment and that didn't end well for the Greens.

          • In Vino 9.1.1.3.1

            Who are you to comment, Jester? You are a giveaway troll, who never had any Green leanings anyway. Feel free to subside away..

  9. Cinny 10

    Saw this on twitter, quite liked it….

    Even if I wasn't politically aware, I would still be voting for the Green Party because that is the best way to give all the National Party cheerleader broadcasters and journalists the fingers.

    Nothing shouts "FUCK YOU HOSKING!" louder than voting Green.

  10. ScottGN 11

    I really feel for him too Robert and I would love to give him my wholehearted support. And I said as much when this shitstorm started to unfold. I pointed out at the time that it was unforgivable for the party membership to humiliate one of their leaders in the public fashion that has happened in the last week and this close to an election (and got dumped on by various commenters in here).
    I don’t want James to behave like Key or any of the other National Party people you mention, he doesn’t need to, but I’d settle for him trying to be a bit more like Jacinda actually.

  11. ScottGN 12

    And yet weka he told all 400 odd of you that Hipkins had a-oked the school project? Which Hipkins had no ability to do? And at least one of the 400 zoomers found that statement incongruous enough to send the zoom to newshub?

    And please don’t start dumping on me because I’m being critical. I WANT the Greens to be a part of the next government! But whichever way you look at this, it’s a class A fuck up at a terrible point in the electoral cycle.

    • weka 12.1

      From memory Shaw has said that Hipkins gave a verbal yes to the project. Pretty sure the Hipkins still has use of his mouth, so this it seems likely he did have the ability to do this.

      No-one minds critique. My objection in the past week has been to poorly informed criticism and jumping to conclusions.

      • Robert Guyton 12.1.1

        "My objection in the past week has been poorly informed criticism and jumping to conclusions."

        Amen. And still they come in, those poorly informed criticisms and jumped-to conclusions.

  12. ScottGN 13

    The point is though weka, that Hipkins didn’t have any ministerial responsibility to give the project a ‘yes’ regardless of what his mouth might be capable of. And Shaw as an Associate Minister of Finance would know that.

    I’m on James Shaw’s side. I think he’s been a really good minister in the coalition government. He may have made a mistake by backing this project but in the matter of the wider fallout he’s been let down by all of you. Clearly there are more than a few of the membership who are not comfortable with the leadership that Shaw provides. But any leader of a political party has some right to expect the membership to line up behind them when the going gets tough. The position is surely untenable otherwise. It’s real politik and one of the trade offs you necessarily make in order to operate at the national level.

  13. Robert Guyton 14

    100% agree, ScottGN.
    And yet…”Shaw has been nothing but amateur hour since the shit hit the fan”
    Difficult to reconcile your two statements…

  14. Patricia Bremner 15

    James is just National's "Look Over there!!"

  15. ScottGN 16

    Haha Robert, you edited that comment.

    Actually I don’t think my statements are at odds really. The hesitant James Shaw that presented at the stand up I watched was a man who’d been through the wringer at that zoom and was maybe left wondering “with friends like these who needs enemies?” It’s obviously hard to present well in public when you’re unsure of the support you have from your team.

    • Robert Guyton 16.1

      Could be. I don't regard James as amateurish at all. He's under immense pressure and handling it very well, despite his drawn look. Other politicians in recent times have collapsed under similar, or less, pressure than he is being subject to; that's the game, in my view; can those who wish the Greens gone, destroy James and render him unable to function, as they did Clare Curran.

  16. ScottGN 17

    I don’t think he’s amateurish either. So in that respect I acknowledge that I haven’t phrased my thinking very well. I just wish the Greens would keep an eye for once on the bigger picture.

    • weka 17.1

      one of the key things that stands out for me is that Shaw was bound by confidentiality convention around the budget and couldn't take his thoughts or decisions in that funding process to the GP caucus. That's huge. I'm guessing it's why Catherine Delahunty said that he might have ended up isolated from his own party. Shaw himself referred to the problematic nature of the process. I'm betting there are things he is not saying because of confidentiality, because of respect for the relationships, and because of pragmatics (the GP don't tell everyone everything, that would be electoral suicide in this environment).

      What I fund stunning is the degree of perfection that the left expect of the GP. The standard being expected here is different than normal. We're not talking about the right condemning Shaw but the left. This is as big an issue as anything Shaw has done imo.

  17. Robert Guyton 18

    I'm going to fire my parting shot (knowing how dangerous that is) having contributed more than my share to the "James" debate.

    I've come to admire supporters of the National Party. They fight for their leaders, even when those leaders are rat-bags. In James' instance, our leader is a decent man, something those Right-wingers surely would wish for most sincerely, but how do we treat or leader, when he finds himself in strife? We tear at him, like gulls. National party supporters know the value of loyalty, even though they misplace it sometimes. We on the Left seem to despise the very idea of giving our top people the benefit of the doubt and our unflinching loyalty. There's something amiss in the way we behave. In my opinion.

    • Incognito 18.1

      This could be worth a post on its own!

      I think the purpose of leadership is (viewed) differently on the Left and Right. Consequently, if a leader ‘fails’ it is a learning experience and almost a badge to wear with pride because it is seen more as a ‘business transaction’ with little personal-individual investment and attachment or it is a ‘mortal sin’ and a ‘fall from Heaven’ because people’s personal hopes and dreams are invested in it and they have now been ‘shattered’. In a nutshell, of course; it requires much more elaboration to tease this out further. Of course, others may completely disagree and have different views 🙂

    • weka 18.2

      very well put Robert. My thinking this week has been similar (not so much about Nat, but about how the left treats our leaders when they disappoint us)

      • In Vino 18.2.1

        Having been in opposition so long, we revile leaders… ?

        Or put it this way: We have spent so long in opposition decrying the dishonesty, of Govt that we hate the slightest sign of it in our own?
        Be fair, James stuffed up bigly. But he has apologised genuinely to my mind, and probably should have just shut up after that. Politics is not his forte.
        I don’t see him as a great future Prime Minister. I see him as someone struggling to cope. But that does not mean that we should not party vote Green.

        • Draco T Bastard 18.2.1.1

          I'll be voting Green and Shaw's apology has a large part to play in that as it cements that the leaders of the Greens are honourable people.

          Something we never see in National and all to rarely see in Labour.

    • Draco T Bastard 18.3

      /agreed

      The Left seems to have forgotten the concept of forgiveness for simple human error.

  18. Patricia Bremner 19

    Regarding James, he appears to have made an error of judgement, apologised, sought to correct it. What more would you like Greens?

    National and friends were overjoyed as it detracted from David Wong Tung's memes and Judith Collins twice signing off a lying advert which was stopped by Parliament.

    National are delighted to have that diversion supplied.

    Labour have not supported James as they can not be seen to be associated with the mistake….sad fact.

    Greens are so busy castigating Shaw they are not drawing the electorate’s attention to the perfidy of National.

    Is there a Green faction who favour not being part of a Government with all the attendant difficulties? Would they rather sit on the side benches playing referee?

    Compromise is a dirty word to some, but often necessary to defeat the actual evil.

    Working together requires compromise quite often, otherwise relationships fail through rigid behaviour. Just saying.
    James appears a good man.
    Judith Collins is a nasty piece, who “doesn’t get angry she gets even.”

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