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English on the economic turmoil

Written By: - Date published: 9:20 am, September 23rd, 2011 - 53 comments
Categories: bill english, capitalism, economy, International, tax - Tags: ,

As most of the headlines this morning focus on the crumbling world economy, it was interesting to hear Bill English on RNZ (audio link).

The world economy is slowing down a bit …

Quite a talent for understatement.

We haven’t been able to dig the big economies out of their low growth … there’s no more clever solutions

There haven’t been any “clever solutions” at all yet because: (1) all the “stimulus” has been directed to the wrong place, Wall St bankers not Main St productive economy; and (2) governments have been addressing the wrong problem, trying to reduce debt through austerity and thus further damaging the economy.

There are now obviously now no easy answers coming form lower interest rates . There’s no more talk about the magic of stimulus coming from some big government spending because people realise the dangers of the debt that goes with it.

There never were any easy answers.  And when English dismisses the “magic of stimulus” recall that almost all the “stimulus” so far has been in the form of bailouts to failed banks and financial institutions (where it turned in to more recorded “bonuses” for executives of course).

So they [governments] do have to start deciding to spend a bit less, tax a bit more, and get their debt down …

Goodness me – did I just hear (around 3:10 in the audio) Bill English call for higher taxes as a sensible response to debt?  Don’t panic “wealth creators”, he wasn’t talking about NZ of course! Sensible solutions are only for other countries.

53 comments on “English on the economic turmoil”

  1. Craig Glen Eden 1

    Yeah so when are National announcing the increase in Tax’s for he rich? Oh thats the right thats the solution for every one else but not here in New Zuland. No the solution here is to sell the Tax payers assets so your mates can get ownership of some thing they could never have fronted the cash for from the start. The poor old working class always do the heavy lifting aye.

  2. ghostwhowalksnz 2

    Oh yes he is talking about more taxes…… after the election.

    Not income taxes of course, but likely a whole raft of government charges, with EQC leading the way

  3. joe90 3

    The Non-Scenic Route to the Place We’re Going Anyway.

    That number includes the surprising and alarming German 0.1 per cent, the desperately poor French 0 per cent and then, wait for it, the agreeably frisky Belgian 0.7 per cent. Why is that, if you’ve been following the story, laugh-aloud funny? Because Belgium doesn’t have a government. Thanks to political stalemate in Brussels, it hasn’t had one for 15 months. No government means none of the stuff all the other governments are doing: no cuts and no ‘austerity’ packages. In the absence of anyone with a mandate to slash and burn, Belgian public sector spending is puttering along much as it always was; hence the continuing growth of their economy. It turns out that from the economic point of view, in the current crisis, no government is better than any government – any existing government.

  4. Countersinker 4

    Cut spending as well. No frills prisons, tell Maoris to get stuffed, freeze benefits and withdraw UN contributions for a start. Local body rates to freeze, no Loopy Len spending in Auckland’s case.
    Increased taxes need to be implimented as well as spending cuts.
    BTW, I am mortgage free and earn $6K PM, I would not mind paying more tax if wasteful spending is also cut.
    Also, need to put tariffs on Chinese shit and look at manufacturing increase in NZ, start with tyres, something simple, more complicated things can follow when we get a better base of services and skills in place.

    • Zorr 4.1

      wow… hatefilled much?

      • Countersinker 4.1.1

        No hate, tough love. The era of open cheque books for vocal groups is closing.
        Too many bludgers built up over the years and expect an easy life at the workers expense.
        Labout & Greens want to look after this lot but others do not.

        • Akldnut 4.1.1.1

          “put tariffs on Chinese shit”

          Wow you were sounding like a radical RWNJ without a gun until you said that – it goes completely against the FTA with China thats being negotiated by your tory idols.

          Now you just sound sound like radical NJ without a gun.

          • Ianupnorth 4.1.1.1.1

            it goes completely against the FTA with China thats being negotiated by your tory idols.

            That scared him off!
             
             

        • Ari 4.1.1.2

          Spending cuts are the last thing you want in an over-cooled economy. What we need are better targeted taxes and other revenue streams. This isn’t an economic bubble- that’s when you can talk about cutting spending and so on. (although if you think that the number of “bludgers” is significant compared to overall benefit payments, you’re simply wrong. If anything, we should be paying out a little more so that we’re not actually paying starvation-level benefits)

          • aerobubble 4.1.1.2.1

            People get by despite government. Spending cuts hurt middle class voters and
            National is sowing a backlash for itself in Nov. The short-term problem is
            too much cash chasing too few opportunities, that’s why National want to
            sell assets, to put more stuff into the wolrd economy and so ‘save it’.
            It won’t work because just as mobs of young and old are rising up
            for a better share of the shrinking pie, but the pie will continue shrinking
            as population increases, as energy runs out, as resource either are
            thrown away or have to be recycled (a more costly prospect).
            NZ needs better, Key comes out during the turd biggest sporting event
            and declares that not only will his government ignore Magna Carta
            but that the law can be rushed under urgency. sorry, it beggers
            belief that Key is our PM when even the ACT party (Sensible Sentencing
            Trust fan club) says the law changes have some scrunity!!!!
            While every rugby loving lawyer and judge globally find out our
            great leader is a total prick undermining the rule of law.

        • Irascible 4.1.1.3

          Talking of vocal groups that should be cut off from the public purse why not include the Feidlander Road Transport Lobby, the Business Roundtable poverty criers group, the Finance Company speculators lobby, the IRFU, Warner bros and other speculator groups much fancied by Key?

        • mik e 4.1.1.4

          what BS Your living up to your name their are more people on benefits now incl 24,00 more on the DPB .You obvoiusly can’t count so your propaganda is is sinking like our economy under bill english who still has’nt managed to get 1% growth in five years as finance minister.

        • Penny Bright 4.1.1.5

          High time for ‘tough love’ against ‘corporate welfare’?

          High time to cut out the contractors and consultants to free up billion$ across central and local government for the public needy – instead of the private GREEDY?

          Penny Bright. ‘Independent Public Watchdog’. Candidate for Epsom.

        • John 4.1.1.6

          Ok then Countersunk lets ask for the bail out money back from the banks and scf plus the top earners who got the big tax cuts and if anyone own’s more than two homes take one off them and sell it

    • Rob, you are dead, stop haunting us. Hell has frozen over. The Rocky Horror Show lives.

    • mik e 4.3

      Just get rid of Stephen Joyce And Borrowing Bill English Empty promise Key.Counterskunk look at the dedt under Nact up from $19 billion to $76 billion courtesy of borrowing bill double dipping dipstick from dipton.

    • MrSmith 4.4

      Countersinker: you sound like a racist, sometime nationalist.

      I have been a little disappointed with the anti chinese sentiment in a few comments on the Standard lately, blaming all your problems and shortcomings on others as history shows us, is a very dangerous road to start traveling down.

  5. JS 5

    It is the begnning of the end for the era of the bankers. The new people’s movement which is currently occupying Wall Street is spreading to other cities and countries.
    It is not being mentioned in the paper based media yet but in the spirit of the age it has already has a wikipedia entry and a facebook page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

  6. ak 6

    Ha ha – good spotting r0b, yes it’s ever-so tasty, innit, watching the architects and cheerleaders of greed and selfishness now presiding and dithering over the rapidly-rotting fruits of their own life’s work.

    Poor old Bill and Grinny peeping sheepishly askance at new taxes for the rich and “communism by stealth” measures that they dare not touch; the party of finacial prudence borrowing $300mill a week and waving bye-bye to increasing hordes of our “best and brightest” who vote for the NACTZies ludicrous “brighter future” with their feet and a two-finger salute.

    The bewildering world of Do-nothing and Plod: the good catholic lad and the son of a solo mother who rode a wave of benny-bashing hatred, racism and a blatant $50/wk election bribe to glory – only to preside over Labour policy, to welcome the Maori Party into government, and to enjoy unprecedented popularity for doing so!

    The economic wizards of NACT: grinning intellectual ants now piloting a cork about to be engulfed by the very storm they themselves created. Their media-owning puppeteers enjoying the last cream bun as the fey, rich white vultures circle for scraps from the dragon’s table. Galloping inequality and international ridicule on the rise, third-world status just another NACT term away.

    To paraphrase that notable philosopher, Simpson, B: The ironing is delicious, but it’s our kids getting flattened.

    • joe90 6.1

      ^, ak, has put a smile on me dial that’s gonna last me right through till the Warriors kick off.

    • Ari 6.2

      Actually, it’s even worse than waving goodbye to our best and brightest- NACT’s education shake-ups have stopped many smart students on self-paced courses (you know, the ones that people who don’t function well in universities tend to favour) from being able to extend their end dates, so many people who would otherwise be headed for success won’t even be qualified to ship themselves overseas, and will instead either be stuck on benefits or in McJobs. What a waste.

      • Shona 6.2.1

        Describes one of my offspring’s situation perfectly. There’es no way he can earn enough to live on and can’t complete his training due to the earthquake affecting his education institution’s abilty to function and the armed forces are not taking anyone. Just advertising. Drowning in student debt stuck living with the parents and no effing prospects.

  7. Afewknowthetruth 7

    Nothing within the paradigms of mainstream economics or mainstream politics can ‘fix’ what is happening because a meltdown is inhenerent in the system. The only question has been ‘when?’

    Bill English is either an ignorant twat or a saboteur.

    Everything that really matters has been getting worse for decades, and will continue to get worse as long as such people are in power. And from here on, most of the things that don’t matter are also very likely to get worse.

    As I said on the other thread, Nature does not negotiat. Attempts to defy the laws of physics, chemistry and mathematics etc. are bound to result in failure.

  8. johnm 8

    The Peak Oil Crisis: The German Army Report

    The Global Economy is being beaten down by the Free Market Force of No More Oil Supply Increase and Oil supply poised to go into terminal supply decline. As a result we have not only reached the end of growth we have reached the beginning of permanent contraction. Refer http://www.postcarbon.org and Richard Heinberg

    As to Old Bill English. We need a unified society with the minimum of inequality: that means taxing the Rich a lot more and NOT selling off the Public’s wealth producing assets. The era of Wealth Worship is now at an end.

    Last year two military planning organizations went public with studies predicting that serious consequences from oil depletion will befall us shortly. In the U.S. the Joint Forces Command concluded, without saying how they arrived at their dates, that by 2012 surplus oil production capacity could entirely disappear and that by 2015 the global shortfall in oil production could be as much as 10 million b/d.
    “For the immediate future, however, the German Army study foresees: 1. increasing oil prices that will reduce consumption and economic output (i.e. a recession or worse); 2. increasing transportation costs that will lead to lower trade volumes – less income for many and unaffordable food for some; and 3. pressure on government budgets as they must keep populations fed, deal with the social consequences of mass unemployment, and attempt to invest in sustainable sources of energy. Governmental revenues are bound to fall as unemployment increases along with resistance to further taxation.”

    Refer link: http://www.postcarbon.org/blog-post/508186-the-peak-oil-crisis-the-german

    • Not that I disagree with the general thrust, but military institutions do have a stake in talking up a deteriorating world (‘who’ya gonna call?’).

      • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1

        Ya know, I really hate it when people accuse others of doing their job because the have a “stake in it”.

  9. vto 9

    Quite why we continue to listen to politicians like English I do not know. They have proved on countless previous occasions that they distort, deflect, deceive and double-dip. They cannot be trusted. Yet we listen to them (though more these days out of amusement than aything with cred)

    And when you combine this lack of trustworthiness with simple foolishness you just get further deeper piles of doo-doo ….. listening to some economic commentator on nat radio this a.m. waffling on about how we in NZ should be fine because, get this, the forecasts show high commodity prices ahead. For fucks sake, don’t they understand that those commodity prices are predicated on many many many many other things, such as a stable world financial market, stable and rising stock exchanges, and especially good times in China and their empty new cities, etc etc. So if those necessary pre-conditions are slaughtered then surely the economic commentator would realise that the forecasts now need turfing into the bin? But noooooo …. keep calm and carry on.

    These people talk shit and really are not that smart.

    • mik e 9.1

      China will fill those houses sooner than later In th US they are bulldozing brand new houses to force prices up when nearly fifty million people have lost their homes to foreclosure

  10. One Anonymous Bloke 10

    Bill English could crash a parked car.

  11. randal 11

    so do you think he is going to rush a higher taxes bill through under urgency. No. He will just do that for a snoops bill but not ofr saomething useful.

  12. prism 12

    Hi lprent. This seems to be the best place to note that Open Mike seems haywire. The right panel shifts over to the left side, the comment box disappears etc. Has happened a few times as I have been trying to use the site. Here though, all seems well.

  13. UpandComer 13

    Bill English is a minister who costs the taxpayer the least amount of money in the history of New Zealand. Funny isn’t it when facts make you look like shit. ‘Double dip’? go dip your head in some round-up and clean away the stupidity and immaturity.

    It’s funny but the era that is over is actually the free spending buy now pay later era of Greece/Labour economics, worldwide. In the US, in Europe, in South America, in the Middle-east, it is done.

    Cullen was a good fair-weather finance minister who reaped the rewards of earlier National fiscal policy efforts, and those of that stalwart Labour voting group, dairy-farmers. Cullen, actually, was a reasonable finance minister – credit where credit is due.

    It went bad in 04 when Helen Clark decided to put in practice some of her ideas. NZ would have been far better off if Cullen had been the dominant part of that duo. He only went bad at the end when he got bitter and macabre and did cynical things like buy kiwi-rail. Did you know Cullen only paid a whole of NZ debt off at the very end, when Bill English showed he hadn’t been paying debt off like he said he had?

    Both Cullen and Clark had no idea what to do when the money started to run out.

    We were looking at a decade of deficits. You know that line, that little line, that goes on graphs, it was pointing up and up and up for debt, and down and down and down for growth. Bill English has reversed those two lines. Bill has done it, miraculously, while being able to keep policies that help people thru tough times intact, and through all the natural disasters and off-shore turmoil.

    The borrowing to keep these policies has been high to make use of contemporary interest rates, but it has a limit and will draw down. Labour borrowing has no limits. If raw stimulus is the answer to every economic problem then why not simply borrow a trillion dollars and pump it in? raise the minimum wage to $50 an hour?

    Right now due to a historically high dollar, unprecedented low interest rates and relatively low inflation, an individual’s purchasing power is actually the greatest it’s ever been, ever. That’s why cost of living politics won’t work except for the certain percentage of people for whom it’s always and inevitably an issue.

    National is doing so much in housing, education, welfare, health, tax policy. We are taking in far more tax revenue, having lowered taxes across the board for NZer’s.

    Come on, credit where credit is due people, less tunnel vision.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      More lies and delusion from a RWNJ.

    • MrSmith 13.2

      “Bill English is a minister who costs the taxpayer the least amount of money in the history of New Zealand. Funny isn’t it when facts make you look like shit.”

      No UpandCumer what’s funny is you have been studying Billy Goats definition on the word Fact! while polishing his shoes.

    • Tangled up in blue 13.3

      Care to back up ANY of your outrageous rhetoric?

      No? Didn’t think so.

    • prism 13.4

      @ UpandComer I think you should try that Wizard of Oz plan Dorothy used. You keep repeating all the things you wish for and then click your heels three times. It always works in the film, and when it’s fantasy you can make anything happen.

  14. Jum 14

    I’m sure this must have been posted; I just missed seeing it. The Standard is famous.

    http://transtasman.co.nz/home/free-articles/economic-debate-are-we-better-off-under-national.html

  15. Jum 15

    These NActs are cunning; we know that. Therefore, they are deliberately bashing people down with these scare messages,having massaged these scares to happen, and make workers cheap and desperate labour.

    We have seen just this sort of behaviour before. Doesn’t anyone ever learn?

  16. Muzza 16

    What amazes me is that people still believe it matters who the govt is, it makes no difference morons, te failure is not party specific or related. Political systems are as easily controlled as the markets some people believe are free. Time to grow up !
    Oh and higher taxes for the rich , dude on 6k pm , you’re not rich pal , sorry to tell ya, so taxing the likes of you more & raising what, a projected 7-10bn in asset sales will offset what exactly? we owe too much , and where is the audit to show where it all came from ? The private debt will sink us as quick as the public debt. So let’s show some maturity Nz and see through the BS!

  17. Jum 17

    Muzza, you are the moron if you don’t see the finer points of a party. Having seen them all first hand recently, I know the ones I would trust to at least try to attain an egalitarian society and it aint NAct.

    Selling off 7-13 billion $ (it is now) is not NAct’s right. They are not in government to make us poorer; they are in government to give us all a chance to make the best of our lives, but the first rule of NAct is to have the poor that they can bash around and the rich that the poor serve. Get that or get out Muzza.

  18. Jenny 18

    Meet Bill English, New Zealand’s next Premier after the election.

  19. Afewknowthetruth 19

    Upandcomer

    ‘Come on, credit where credit is due people, less tunnel vision.’

    What a good idea!

    Let’s give credit to all the peasant workers in Asia who work for a few cents an hour making goods. so that people in NZ can buy them cheaply.

    Perhaps we could give a bit of credit to the little boys in places like the Congo, where they work for a few cents a day extracting minerals needed to produce electronics goods.

    Shall we give credit to the semi-slave workers in places like West Africa who grow and collact the raw materials nedded to produce chocolate, coffee etc?

    How about some credit to the people in Nigeria who are not putting up enough resistance to having their oil stolen by western corporations?

    I think we should also goive credit to people in places like Nauru and Christmas Island, who allowed their islands to be turned into moonscapes so that NZ could get rich on the back of agriculture predicated on superphosphate.

    I suppose we could give credit to people in the past who slaved away to make NZ a good place to live and have seen their efforts sabotaged by corporate raiders, aided and abetted by the likes of Bill English.

    ‘We were looking at a decade of deficits. You know that line, that little line, that goes on graphs, it was pointing up and up and up for debt, and down and down and down for growth. Bill English has reversed those two lines.’

    I’m not sure which planet you are living on but it is obviosuly not the planet I am living on.

    We are headed straight into the mayhen that will be generated by Peak Oil with a scientifically illiterate maniac in charge.

  20. Tombstone 20

    With National in govt cheap Chinese shit that ends up as landfill in good old Nu Zuland will just keep on pouring into the country because National fail to understand that if we produce our own products to serve our own market then people will be required to make that stuff which means jobs – all this free market bollocks has done is see jobs head off shore and benefits Keys mates but no one else. It has to stop. Start producing stuff again and people will naturally migrate from benefits into work. It’s a no brainer but that doesn’t work for Key and his mates because it bites into their ability to grow their own personal wealth at the expense of everyone else. The whole trickle down, free market bollocks is a big fat lie designed to make sure the wealth continues to flow up – simple.

  21. Rob 21

    “The world economy is slowing down a bit”
    I guess you might say that if you live in Dipton!

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