Final debate – win to Goff on points

Written By: - Date published: 4:20 pm, November 23rd, 2011 - 175 comments
Categories: election 2011, john key, phil goff - Tags: ,

The last of the Goff-Key leaders’ debates tonight 7pm on TV1.   Let’s hope that they have improved their broken format – let them actually debate – TV3 showed you how.  And let’s hope Goff can repeat his winning form!

And Key doesn’t know his numbers! He doesn’t know that only 49% of Aucklanders own their homes. He doesn’t know that long-term youth unemployment has gone up by 700% under his government. Phil enlightens him.

Very telling point on “The Hobbit” laws. Key thinks that’s one of his strong points, but Goff made him look silly when he could hardly bring himself to admit that the “Lord of the Rings” trilogy was made here under Labour.

Interesting scoop from Goff. Police hires to be frozen, but the instruction is not to release the news until after the election! Key looked startled. He didn’t want us to know that he’s planning to shrink police numbers through attrition.

Debate over. Not a walkover for Goff like the TV3 debate, but a win to Goff on points. Communicated effectively, came across as honest and open (compared to Key’s shifty body language), and had Key on the ropes several times.

175 comments on “Final debate – win to Goff on points ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. bob 1
    23 November 2011 at 4:41 pm

    “And let’s hope Goff can repeat his winning form!”

    Im sorry – surely winning form would have resulted in better polling etc.

    I really dont think “winning form” is the right term here – although personally I will be happy if he continues as he has done so – so I guess we both want the same thing.

  2. Brett Dale 2
    23 November 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Isnt this just a repeat on the debate that occured on tv3??? TVNZ says this is the second change to catch the debate.

    • Lanthanide 2.1
      23 November 2011 at 5:14 pm

      This is TV1’s second debate between Key and Goff.

      Why would TV1 be replaying content from TV3?

      • Dr Terry 2.1.1
        23 November 2011 at 8:20 pm

        The repeat has been a chance for Espiner to give Key the floor. How sick of that awful accent I am, how tired of the never ending reference to “mums and dads” (not every voter is a mum or a dad). Key is full of empty cliche and rhetoric. But the people want his medicine, and, by heaven, it is going to taste very bitter indeed!

  3. ianmac 3
    23 November 2011 at 5:16 pm

    David Haywood on Nine to Noon in the last segment of the day, was talking about the validity of polling.

    http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20111123-1145-science_with_david_haywood-048.mp3

    At halfway he starts to talk about cell phone/landline access in polling. In the States the change from Landline to cell phone has been rapid since 2006. His example is that his circle of friends are very highly educated, tend to be Left Leaning and none of them have landlines. (There is a lot on that talk including intially the maths of margin of errors in polling.) Anyway it does seem relevant to discussions about how much notice to take of polls. Since Brett and bob would rather we ignored the final debate it might help.

  4. marsman 4
    23 November 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Who are the panel of ” expert analysts” this time? Will the speakers have the audience behind them again? Most disconcerting, makes Espiner seem like the Grand Seigneur with the political aspirants stating their case and the rabble in behind looking on, dumb format.

  5. Tiger Mountain 5
    23 November 2011 at 6:35 pm

    The dirty filthy Natz have got the third debate format sussed. A sit down with Guyon Espiner across a table, no stand up podiums. Though apparently there will be some viewer questions too. “Ve aks ze qvestions”, hmmmm.

    So basically if Phil Goff is doing ok, or Key not good, Guyon will get his orders via ear piece and change tack. Definitely more dastardly than the RM worm. Real time grilling of Labour leader and a silky under table stroke for the slippery Prime Minister.

    • Tom Gould 5.1
      23 November 2011 at 7:26 pm

      Key looks ‘dead-eye’ shifty, like a natural born liar, but Goff never looks confident. If you bother to time that actual uninterrupted contributions, Key gets nearly twice as much as Goff. And Espiner steers toward Key’s issues anyway. And I guess the ‘panel of Tories’ will smash Goff, like they did last time. So for Goff to break even, is a miracle really.

      • Carol 5.1.1
        23 November 2011 at 7:29 pm

        Though Guyon laughed and pointed out the contradiction of Key saying CGT will cost us, then saying we already have a CGT.

  6. freedom 6
    23 November 2011 at 6:42 pm

    anyone have the link, please,
    i missed the last TVOne debate so don’t have it bookmarked

    i have been all over the tvnz site and cannot find it,

  7. Trowlie 7
    23 November 2011 at 7:14 pm

    I get unusually nervous before these debates. Hopefully John learnt from the other night and doesn’t let Phil dominate him again.

    • CnrJoe 7.1
      23 November 2011 at 7:17 pm

      its o.k
      he always has Hawaii

      • Trowlie 7.1.1
        23 November 2011 at 7:22 pm

        That’s true! And having spent some time holidaying just down the road from his apartment in Wailea I can tell you it’s an awesome spot. Especially at this time of year when the Humpback whales are calving just off shore.

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1
          23 November 2011 at 8:41 pm

          NZ PM Key: deep inside prefers to be in Hawaii hobnobbing with the rich and famous.

          • Jared 7.1.1.1.1
            23 November 2011 at 9:35 pm

            “Hawaii” what a nice buzz word.
            Ever remember where Helen holidayed? Predominantly overseas from what I remember. But hey “Hawaii”!!

            • felix 7.1.1.1.1.1
              23 November 2011 at 10:18 pm

              Your memory isn’t that good then. You’d be more likely to find Helen tramping the Milford track than sucking piss on a patio in Hawaii.

              How many weeks has Key spent in Hawaii during his term? It was a hell of a lot in the first year.

              • Jared …
                23 November 2011 at 10:34 pm

                Your memory clearly isn’t good at all then
                http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10360738
                “Asked yesterday about what she hoped to get up to, she said she would be “exercising my right to the three-week statutory minimum” and that she would be overseas. ”

                “Her previous holidays have included climbing Mt Kilimanjaro in Tanzania and getting most of the way up Argentina’s Mt Aconcagua – trips revealed only after the events.”

                But hey! “Hawaii”!!!

                • felix …
                  23 November 2011 at 10:48 pm

                  zOMFG! She went overseas 3 times?????!!!!!

                  How much time has Key spent at his home in Hawaii again?

                  • Jared …
                    23 November 2011 at 10:57 pm

                    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=586506
                    “Prime Minister Helen Clark was due back in the country yesterday following an overseas holiday.

                    It is understood she spent time skiing in the United States and also visited Mexico.”

                    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=228166

                    “The row over Phillida Bunkle and Marian Hobbs claiming out-of-town living allowances erupted while their leader was on a climbing holiday in Chile.”

                    “Hawaii”!!!!!!!

                    • lovinthatchangefeeling …
                      23 November 2011 at 11:14 pm

                      Ms Klark is not happy with your detailed observation Jared.
                      Go sit on the naughty chair and reflect on your rudeness
                      http://www.peterellis.org.nz/2008/helen_clark.jpg

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      23 November 2011 at 11:25 pm

                      RWNJs desperately trying to win the 2008 election all over again.

                      Losers.

                    • felix …
                      24 November 2011 at 12:06 am

                      You’ve probably got grounds to have her passport revoked, but still no answer I see.

                      According to this post Key spent 2 whole months out of his first 14 on holiday.

                      90 days overseas in his first year, over half of that on holiday (and most of the rest on junkets).

                      Hawaiian holidays are such a cliche, perfect for a manufactured persona like John “when I grow up I want a million dollars and my own plane and be the boss of the world” Key.

                    • Jared …
                      24 November 2011 at 12:24 am

                      I couldn’t care less where he holidays.
                      But, remember he is entitled to the same holidays as normal employees, 4 weeks, perhaps some of it is even unpaid leave!. If you have an issue with this, submit an OIA and confirm it.

                      Considering being the Prime Minister is an incredibly demanding job, I don’t doubt the need for a break though. Add a family into that mix, and I can see why he goes to Hawaii to actually have a break.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      24 November 2011 at 1:10 am

                      That poor stressed out man Key, he’s looking like he needs a Honolulu sojourn. In fact I don’t think he can be fucked with the PM’s job any more. Maybe he can be PM of NZ from Hawaii and just telecommute a couple of hours a day?

                      At least the squad of DPS he takes with him get nice tans.

                    • felix …
                      24 November 2011 at 4:54 am

                      You “don’t care where he holidays”, Jared?

                      Jeez, could’ve fooled me.

                      And fuck off with the “unpaid leave” bit, he’s the Prime fucking Minister. He can work his arse off for the people of NZ every day or he can piss off back to Hawaii.

                    • Jared …
                      24 November 2011 at 10:16 am

                      So he doesn’t deserve a holiday?

                      Hes entitled to one, every full time employee is entitled to 4 weeks, but he isn’t? How does that work?

                      And no, I don’t care where he takes his holiday. For the same reason Helen kept hers private and holidayed where ever she wanted, he can holiday where ever he wants. Thats his free right, just as its yours.

                      The fact that you continually harp on about him holidaying in “Hawaii” shows you care deeply though.

          • Majella 7.1.1.1.2
            24 November 2011 at 11:02 am

            …and the escpaee directors from collapsed finance companies?

  9. Zola 9
    23 November 2011 at 7:20 pm

    John Key is looking nervous, pallid, unshaven and a bit grubby – remember Nixon – let’s hope same effect here!

  10. mike 10
    23 November 2011 at 7:32 pm

    Key’s eyes look red and tired. Goff just nailed him on the minimum wage issue. And he defended CGT well while Key shrugged his shoulders and looked sulky.

  11. seeker 11
    23 November 2011 at 7:32 pm

    John Key looking like he was almost ashamed of his taxcuts when Phil thanked him for the $300per week he received that he didn’t need. Key looked as tho he couldn’t defend the indefensible. Now he won’t look at Goff at all. So rude and shifty, especially as goff always turns to him and addresses him personally.

  12. freedom 12
    23 November 2011 at 7:33 pm

    i noticed John Key keeps referring to NZ in the second person when talking of what may happen in the coming years, especially prevalent when they were talking on Asset sales.

    • Majella 12.1
      24 November 2011 at 11:08 am

      Well, he was, after all, an international investment banker, and a 1%er. Recent global experience tends to indicate that such people are loyal to their own cohort first (assets, anyone?) ….is it just co-incidental taht he is Jewish (not that I’m a conspiracy theorist or anything…)

  13. rain33 13
    23 November 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Goff asks Key if he can guarantee no more than 10% of assets will end up in foreign hands, to which Key replies, trust me, I’ve been a merchant banker…………lololololololol

    • mike 13.1
      23 November 2011 at 7:39 pm

      “Trust me, I’ve been a merchant banker.” Haha that would make a great T-shirt.

    • William Joyce 13.2
      23 November 2011 at 7:40 pm

      Last, night on the news in reply to a question Key replied…
      “Yeah, look, sometimes New Zealanders are fed false information”

      Yeah, right, by that great industry of merchants of avarice.

    • Hami Shearlie 13.3
      24 November 2011 at 12:21 am

      “Trust me, I’ve been a merchant banker?” Key must be channelling Groucho Marx! Or Nixon – “I am not a crook!” Sorry John, but you are sure looking shifty enough to be a bona fide crook! And Key talks about Winston being dishonest! ROFL

  14. William Joyce 14
    23 November 2011 at 7:37 pm

    Body language is telling.
    Key wont turn his shoulders towards Goff with his elbows on the table.
    Goff, shoulders face on to Key, trying face to face contact and key wont face him for long.
    The smiling assassin doesn’t face up.

    The insecure boy without a father doesn’t like it when people don’t like him.

    • Lanthanide 14.1
      23 November 2011 at 8:01 pm

      Key’s body language is really letting him down in this debate, just as it did in the first TV1 debate. But this time it’s even worse since it’s a more intimate setting.

  15. rain33 15
    23 November 2011 at 7:38 pm

    Watch Key, he has not made eye contact with Goff yet.

    • the pink postman 15.1
      24 November 2011 at 2:39 pm

      So how did Audrey Young declared Key an easy winner .? Perhaps,she was on the plonk at some right-wing doo The womens so biased its insulting to the average intelligence.

  16. Zola 16
    23 November 2011 at 7:43 pm

    Goff’s winning so far. John Key looks like a zombie and he can’t keep his hands still. He can’t give a direct answer to anything and for once Espinor is not letting him off.

    • mike 16.1
      23 November 2011 at 7:54 pm

      Espiner is doing a better job than last time. If anything Key seems to be getting the harder time this time. I guess that’s to even things up from the first debate hehe.

  17. ianmac 17
    23 November 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Like Mike I think that when Phil contradicts John he looks sulky. Wonder why? Not used to it eh?

    • Carol 17.1
      23 November 2011 at 7:47 pm

      I noticed soon after JK became PM that he doesn’t take criticism well. Usually he slips into denial mode, like he doesn’t accept the criticism exists.

    • mike 17.2
      23 November 2011 at 8:46 pm

      Sociopaths react differently to ‘normal’ people when people contradict them. It’s noticable and eye-brow raising. It’s partly because getting people to believe their bull is pretty much what they are all about, and partly because that the things they say make perceptions, and perceptions are reality. So by saying things they can make the reality that they want. It’s almost a literal belief. When someone contradicts them they are attacking the reality that they want. You’re attacking their world.

      Thus they react in a way that seems childish to others, and it happens instantly, like a reflex. Sulking, anger, violence, insults. Childish attempts at control. I’ve seen sociopaths in an apparently good mood throw a full blown tantrum like flipping a lightswitch because someone disagreed with them on some minor point. I’ve seen the sulky face too. It might work in certain situations. A live debate on TV isn’t one of them.

  18. rain33 18
    23 November 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Unfortunately Key is winning the debate because he has 90% of the floor! Espiner is clearly intimidated by the PM.

    • kriswgtn 18.1
      23 November 2011 at 8:06 pm

      Goff is decimating Key

      • Jackal 18.1.1
        23 November 2011 at 8:52 pm

        Key looked forlorn and beaten… not only on a personal level but by the numbers as well. His argument was often based on untruths. Goff wasn’t given enough time to answer Keys lies, but when he did, he decimated National’s argument. A clear win for Labour.

  19. lenore 19
    23 November 2011 at 7:53 pm

    my 12 year old daughter reckons that key and goff should swap ties at the end of this debate (like football teams). I think the ties are a bit ott

    I thought last night’s insight into child poverty was very poignant this week.

  20. Adele 20
    23 November 2011 at 7:57 pm

    I am watching John Key defend his tough stance on beneficiaries.

    In the absence of checking the figures, John states that beneficiaries cost this country $8billion dollars (annually). That figure is extremely high, and, I think, represents about 3/4 of the entire Vote Social Welfare.

    Surely then, that figure is inclusive of superannuation payments.

    • rosy 20.1
      23 November 2011 at 8:41 pm

      Exactly. I would have liked to see Phil point that out – he could have also said that it includes cancer sufferers and paraplegics on the invalid’s benefit.

  21. Carol 21
    23 November 2011 at 7:58 pm

    Protest outside TVNZ where the Leaders Debate is happening. They are protesting about child poverty & say pox on both Labour and National houses. John Minto is present, and some occupy-ers.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/campaign-trail/6022707/Protest-outside-TVNZ-leaders-debate

    Holding banners with slogans such as “the KEY [sic] in life is sincerity. Once you can fake that you’ve got it made”, they chanted “Phil Goff, John Key – you’re all the same to me”.

    Auckland Action Against Poverty spokeswoman Sarah Thompson said her group was protesting against the National Party’s welfare policies, including plans to drug test beneficiaries.

    Campbell Jones of the Occupy Auckland movement said he was concerned about child poverty in New Zealand.

    “We don’t think that any political party should be elected on a platform that allows or permits for anyone to be hungry in New Zealand. That’s why we’re here today.”

  22. Bill Engrish 22
    23 November 2011 at 7:58 pm

    This debate is a whitewash for Goff. He’s killing Key. Even on the questions where he should’ve been hammered.

  23. Salsy 23
    23 November 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Key is stuggling, without a doubt.. small gains, major slips, slightly green complextion. Goff, fresh, relaxed, natural. Key is stressed.

    • Trowlie 23.1
      23 November 2011 at 8:10 pm

      I think you must have myskyed tv3’s debate from the other night and you’re watching that.

      The debate that is happening right now on One is clearly being won by Key.

      Goff has good things to say. Invariably I agree with what he says but he is hardly getting a word in and that is why it’s Key who is winning.

      • kriswgtn 23.1.1
        23 November 2011 at 8:19 pm

        hahhaha wot channel you watching dick
        uranus?

        [Lift your game…pointless abuse is not needed. Regardless of who it comes from. RL]

    • Carol 23.2
      23 November 2011 at 8:10 pm

      Comment #56 on Stuff’s live updates, from Zeus:

      Put the solded sticker on Key’s forehead cause Goff owns him!!

      • freedom 23.2.1
        23 November 2011 at 8:15 pm

        and the odd desperate plant telling people a politician’s body language is irrelevant, eg.#51 .

        look away, there s no-one behind the curtain

  24. happynz 24
    23 November 2011 at 8:10 pm

    Classic Key waffling along the lines of ‘We will make the economy grow by growing the economy.’

    Good grief…

  25. felix 25
    23 November 2011 at 8:14 pm

    There a live stream for this pigwrestling?

    • Herodotus 25.2
      23 November 2011 at 8:46 pm

      I thought it was more like Seaworld and allowing 2 seals to perform.
      Hate to think what 2014 will degenerate to (Unless 2012 is the end). Perhaps a mix or Womans Weekly and Reality TV (Or tea and scones at the local cafe)
      Debate is for claim and counter claim. There was very little policy and how the policy dove tails into solutions. e.g. 100k have left in the last 3 years vs 300k left in the Lab years. SO we loss 30+k p.a. This is the greatest sign of no confidence in both parties, it is obvious and immediate.
      The debates appear to me as who is best at cut and paste of adverts and sound bites.
      Hate to think how anyone who is passive about politics makes their informed decision 😎

  26. DJL 26
    23 November 2011 at 8:16 pm

    Just watched an ad for national. When Key comes back on he repeats the same crap.

    • DS 26.1
      23 November 2011 at 8:20 pm

      What is it with their latest ad? They’re practically yelling at us.

      • Jackal 26.1.1
        23 November 2011 at 9:14 pm

        John Key says; “…and a rebuild Christchurch.”

        A party political broadcast… and Key can’t even speak proper english. FFS!

      • Hami Shearlie 26.1.2
        24 November 2011 at 12:26 am

        I got a pre-recorded message from Key on the phone tonight – let me tell you that awful accent and voice is way worse on the phone!

  27. dad4justice 27
    23 November 2011 at 8:17 pm

    What a croc of shit. Get a life kiwi voter!

  28. DJL 28
    23 November 2011 at 8:21 pm

    I really like how Phil Goff wants the government to be united ( Labour and National) on child poverty, and Key fobs him off….what a wank!

    • ianmac 28.1
      23 November 2011 at 8:47 pm

      Yep DJL and one of the posts read out was about the need for parties to cooperate more. Timely.

  29. freedom 29
    23 November 2011 at 8:25 pm

    does anyone know anything about the Police issue popping up in the Stuff comments.

    ” – National are stopping ALL Police recruiting for 12 months and has instructed Police not to announce that until AFTER the election! – “

  30. Dv 30
    23 November 2011 at 8:31 pm

    What about the instruction to police no recruitment next year and nothing to be said until after election?
    Sorry just seen your coment Carol.

  31. Tigger 31
    23 November 2011 at 8:37 pm

    God knows I have little time for Key but that lie about SM at the end and the shill against MMP is so venal, so undemocratic as to be unforgiveable. Good on JJ for pulling him up on that. Key straight out misled the public about SM and minorities. And as a minority underrepresented in Parliament a pox on him for trading off my inequality for his gain. Utterly, utterly, utterly sick Mr Key. You are powerful and popular, popular enough that people will believe you now matter what, and power like that shouldn’t be abused. But you did. And you screwed over an entire group of those of us with who will never have your power. You are sick. And I am mad.

    • marxbrother 31.1
      23 November 2011 at 8:53 pm

      +1 Tigger. Well done to JJ- took some guts. Wonder if he’ll be invited back!

    • Sookie 31.2
      23 November 2011 at 8:53 pm

      Apart from Jon Whatisname burning Key out about that SM bullshite at the end, I found the whole debate dull and pointless. Morons, of which there are many, will vote for Smug Git and the faceless goons behind him. Ditherers may vote for Labour/Greens, or bloody Winston, or just won’t turn up. I don’t think the debate did much to make up people’s minds, except to make them more irritated and apathetic.

      • Herodotus 31.2.1
        23 November 2011 at 9:15 pm

        Lucky we had the RWC to divert attention away. Imagine 2-3 months of this.More of this IMO would just deter voters from voting. Its like getting the cane. It’s painful but over with quickly. Disagree with you re dithers, I think dithers will vote Greens/NZ1. The real base of green support will go Mana, and Mana will have a guaranteed 2-3% core vote as long as Hone doesn’t cause a split.
        Wonder who will cause the 1st By election post Saturday.
        Not even a mention re Retirement age !!

        • Frankie 31.2.1.1
          23 November 2011 at 11:10 pm

          The first by-election will be caused by Key stepping down about a year into his next term.He has ticked PM off his list now. Body language shows he is clearly over it, can’t take the scrutiny by Goff or the press and besides then he can go to Hawai’i whenever he wants without having to answer to the pesky public

  32. I dreamed a dream 32
    23 November 2011 at 8:45 pm

    Even that Clare Robinson had to admit that Goff did well.

    I’ve scanned through the comments at TVNZ and Stuff and not surprisingly, the comments favour Goff.

    Is it all too late for this Election though? Damn the RWC! Needed to have a longer election period.

  33. James 33
    23 November 2011 at 8:47 pm

    The only polling that isn’t done in the outdated call-landlines-in-the-evening method is Horizon.

    People that don’t have landlines: the young, the poor, the technologically savvy. All of which are MUCH more likely to vote left. I expect Labour and the Greens to come out MUCH stronger than all these polls indicate.

    The media has a strong bias against Goff. I think he is a far better politician than Key, a far better leader. I think he’s also a far better person than the media tries to paint him. There was little to no coverage of Goff’s motorbike tour of the country a couple of years back. He comes across as in touch with real New Zealanders and in touch with his party in a very real sense. Key comes across as an arrogant businessman who needs to be fired.

    • I dreamed a dream 33.1
      23 November 2011 at 8:59 pm

      I am hoping for an upset this Saturday. However, just like my handle, I am only dreaming a dream I suppose.

      If the unlikely upset does happen, it will go down in New Zealand folklore as the greatest NZ electoral upset in history.

      • Jenny 33.1.1
        23 November 2011 at 11:45 pm

        People that don’t have landlines: the young, the poor, the technologically savvy. All of which are MUCH more likely to vote left……

        James

        They are also MUCH more likely to not be registered…….

  34. Jester 34
    23 November 2011 at 8:58 pm

    I thought goff exceeded everyone’s expectations.

  35. Fiji Bill 35
    23 November 2011 at 9:04 pm

    The debate was paced very quickly with little opportunity for either of them to really dig away at each other, so what stood out the most for me was the body language. This was the most evident point of difference between the two. Goff looked human with fresh emotion on his face like humour, concern, concentration. Key looked goblin-like and as though he could taste shit in his mouth. Goff was upright, attentive and open. Key looked hunched and insular and unwell. Goff was far more articulate than Key.

    The intimate setting was to Goff’s advantage in the end.

  36. tsmithfield 36
    23 November 2011 at 9:04 pm

    “…win to Goff on points”

    Heh. Lefty code for “Goff got owned”.

  37. mickysavage 37
    23 November 2011 at 9:06 pm

    No post by Farrar or the slithery one yet about the debate. Maybe they will conclude that Guyon is a secret Labour Party plant? I have not seen the debate, waiting to get home and watch it on Mysky.

    Sounds like a good one though.

  38. mike 38
    23 November 2011 at 9:14 pm

    I agree, a points win to Goff. 3/3. He scored the hits, and defended well. Key looked tired, bored and sulky. Goff looked fresh and interested. Neither were particularly inspiring on getting their policy across. And as someone else mentioned the ‘law & order’ debate seemed to me over who recruited more police which is disappointing.

  39. North 39
    23 November 2011 at 9:17 pm

    NEWS BREAK NEWS BREAK NEWS BREAK………

    Both the Telecom and Vodafone cellphone networks have broken down in leafy suburbs all over NZ………seems that android and Ipod phones all over said suburbs were working overtime in 1000s x 1000s 75 cent units to vote for “Trust me, I was a merchant banker…….”.

    Key 63% Goff 37% ? What a lot of fanciful crap……….and everyone knows it !

    Kia Ora Shonkey………..and thank you Johannson. Magnificent last word !

  40. tsmithfield 40
    23 November 2011 at 9:18 pm

    Was Goff saying a vote for Labour is potentially a vote for a hung parliament and a new election?

    Because, his comments about NZ First seems to suggest this. According to Goff, if he can’t at least get a confidence and supply arrangement with NZ First if that is required, then he won’t govern at all.

    • Dv 40.1
      23 November 2011 at 9:44 pm

      So then because Key didnt win the election he will be gone.
      Who do you think will replace him?

      • Colonial Viper 40.1.1
        23 November 2011 at 10:41 pm

        Joyce, Bennett or English.

        • felix 40.1.1.1
          23 November 2011 at 10:52 pm

          English is arrogant and stupid enough to think he could do it, but would he have the support of caucus? I don’t think so.

          Joyce is arrogant too, but not so stupid he doesn’t realise he’s unelectable.

          Bennett would make a good sockpuppet for Joyce, and she’s stupid and arrogant enough to not notice.

        • rod 40.1.1.2
          24 November 2011 at 5:24 pm

          What about Don?

    • Crashcart 40.2
      23 November 2011 at 11:04 pm

      What a stupid argument. It would not be labours fault if NZ1 hold the balance of power and choose to hang parliment any more than it would be Keys. Do you think what you write through to its full conclusion before you write it?

      • Dv 40.2.1
        23 November 2011 at 11:31 pm

        Nope key said he would resign leadership if he lost.
        If he cant form a govt he has lost, hence he will resign.

  41. I dreamed a dream 41
    23 November 2011 at 9:26 pm

    What’s given me some hope is that at the end of the debate Jon Johanssen and Clare Robinson seem to concur that 10% of voters are undecided in the final week and another 10% of voters are undecided on the election day.

    That means a healthy 20% of voters can be swayed. If the undecideds respond anywhere close to the TV3 worm we saw the other day, things will be interesting on Saturday.

    Here’s hoping….

  42. ianmac 42
    23 November 2011 at 9:37 pm

    It is probably true that the detail of what they say fades (quite quickly for older folk) but what endures is the impression that the speakers imprint.
    The deeply committed partisans stay partisan. (No way I would vote National.)
    So a sulky grim Key does not connect with the swinging voter.
    A fit enthusiastic friendly Goff who offers to cooperate leaves an image which may connect to a swinging voter.
    It is possible that Key, who is the National Party so the posters and ads say, stumbles and the Left is still able to get an unprecedented win! Go Phil!

  43. James 111 43
    23 November 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Carol says and a shot of Key behind Goff looking bored while Goff’s talking
    Well of course he would Goff has no charisma in his voice he does the typical teacher child talk, He tends to talk at people rather than to them.The John, John, John John thing is so contrived
    Key scored enough points to make sure he will be in charge after Sunday. He killed off Winston again very effectively which really kills off a Labour led Government.
    National will get just over 50% Labour about 28%, and again will be disappointed with a low voter turn out, and their support flowing to the greens.

  44. ianmac 44
    23 November 2011 at 9:39 pm

    Espiner was much better in this setup. Redeemed a little bit.

  45. Sanctuary 45
    23 November 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Key is clearly sick of all this democracy business. That isn’t the way they do things at Merrill-Lynch, and he is obviously fed up with all tis voting palaver and just wants Saturday to come so he can (well, he thinks he can) get on with gutting ACC and privatising everything in sight.

  46. Rob the dog 46
    23 November 2011 at 9:44 pm

    So Goff got slaughtered again eh Sanc?

  47. Carol 47
    23 November 2011 at 9:45 pm

    I think it’s interesting that during the campaign, some of Key’s teflon has been exposed. Labour and the Greens and Hone have got more positive exposure than during the last 3 years.

    There’s more than one way the election outcome could be good for the left: e.g. National could be within striking distance of forming a government, while Labour-Greens fall short. But National may need the Greens or NZ1st to govern, which could possibly make it a bit of a lame duck government. Meanwhile the global context will be turbulent. The left have laid out more ideas for the future than stuck-in-the-neoliberal-90s NAct.

  48. Ianupnorth 48
    23 November 2011 at 9:46 pm

    I was out leafleting tonight – several really positive comments from punters re. their disgust re. assets sales; one refused to read the leaflet as he didn’t support Labour. When I suggested that assets sales were a big issue he responded “I don’t care who owns them”. He looked puzzled at the thought of them actually ending up in foreign ownership, he thought the government had sorted this out already to prevent this!

    Dumb and dumber – the leaflet would have been wasted on him. It is game on this weekend.

    • Colonial Viper 48.1
      23 November 2011 at 10:22 pm

      Was out campaigning in what is traditionally a blue part of town today. And found a lot of support for Labour (plus a bit for the Greens).

      I don’t know if its quite enough for an upset, but I reckon Key and his lads are going to have to sit hard on the ball for the last 5 minutes of this 80 minute game if they want to get back in.

      Go Labour.

      • infused 48.1.1
        23 November 2011 at 11:25 pm

        Funny how you lot keep saying this, yet that’s not what the polls are saying. You must all be talking to the same group of people.

        • Colonial Viper 48.1.1.1
          24 November 2011 at 12:45 am

          I talked to maybe 150 people today, usually either one on one or in groups of two or three.

          Even without pooling comments from others on the local Labour team, that’s a full 1/7 of the number of people in some of these phone polls (“1100 people surveyed” etc) that I personally talked to.

          And these were blue areas where the local booths in 2008 were blue as. I’ll repeat it again – support for Key and English was lukewarm at most, and many said they would (or already had) voted Labour/Greens. A small handful of people, maybe 10%, told me outright that they were going to vote National.

  49. Rob the dog 49
    23 November 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Ian ” He looked puzzled at the thought of them actually ending up in foreign ownership, he thought the government had sorted this out already to prevent this”

    The govt have, the share float is only up to 49% ie a non controlling interest. Reality is obviously wasted in you.

    • The Voice of Reason 49.1
      23 November 2011 at 10:12 pm

      The only thing we’ve learned from your comment is that you know nothing about business. Even holdings at single figure levels have significant influence on a companies direction, let alone what happens when the private equity vultures swoop on larger chunks. It’s a one way street to foreign control, just as happened with the utilities and infrastructure we flogged off cheap twenty years ago.

      • rob the dog 49.1.1
        23 November 2011 at 10:21 pm

        OK, I consider myself rebutted and I genuflect at your insightful commentary about “one way streets” “flogged off cheap” and thats not mentioning the fact that only 49% will be tradeable equity so private equity firms won’t be able to “swoop” on the company.

    • Colonial Viper 49.2
      23 November 2011 at 10:13 pm

      The NATs will fully 100% privatise the assets once Key is gone. Kiwibank too.

      And it will all end up in foreign hands.

    • Ianupnorth 49.3
      23 November 2011 at 10:14 pm

      I wasn’t talking about the 49% you Muppet – where the hell are the ‘mum and dad’ investors; the reality is they will be bought up by those not on the breadline and rapidly sold on for profit to whoever – and Kiwibank will be next.

      So clearly you are quite happy for the dividends to leave the country and never return.

  50. lovinthatchangefeeling 50
    23 November 2011 at 9:58 pm

    Heh. Thanks for coming guys. See you in 3 more years.

    Oh and the most poignant comment of the night? Espiner to Goff: “If you want a job as an interviewer, give me a call on Saturday”.

    After all, he will be looking for a new job 🙂

  51. Sookie 51
    23 November 2011 at 10:03 pm

    I think after yet another sneery, shifty, tedious performance from ‘That Nice Mr Key’ tonight this brilliant piece of satire by Rabid Kea deserves another airing 🙂 http://rabidkea.blogspot.com/2010/03/national-releases-new-fuck-everybody.html

  52. Roflcopter 52
    23 November 2011 at 10:29 pm

    In the context of the setting of the debate, this was a massive fail by Goff.

    His approach, while appropriate at a stand-up lecturn and across the studio environment, was completely wrong when you’re sitting in a closer situation with the interviewer sitting within feet of you.

    He looked desperate and he talked desperate, an accurate reflection of his position.

    • Colonial Viper 52.1
      24 November 2011 at 12:17 am

      So if the debate had been held using lecturns again, Goff would have been the clear winner? Thanks.

      • Lanthanide 52.1.1
        24 November 2011 at 2:13 pm

        Bizarre, eh?

        I think Goff was about as effective on this as he had been in the other 2. Key on the other hand had very bad body language and, once again, acted like a child. This format suited him less.

  53. Zaphod Beeblebrox 53
    23 November 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Goff was well briefed.

    1. Had the scoop on the recruitment freeze fo police after Key tried to make us believe his police policies reduced crime stats.
    2. Poimted out that Australia has a stronger employment arbitration system, higher wages and a CGT, when Key said his ploicies would help us catch up.
    3. Made Key look like a sucker when he tried to portray the Hobbit was only saved by his industrial relations sop. He pointed out the LOTR trilogy was made under Labour.
    4. Had a great line about Peters needing 5% of the vote whereas Banks will need 0.7 of 1% the get elected.
    5. Pointed out that higher wages were the best incentive to get back to work. Key then backed it up by pointing out that getting back to work incurs extra costs (so whats the point of working for $13/hr).

    BTW was foreign policy even mentioned? Surely that is many times more importan than arguing about how to best beat up on bennies or who can piss better when designing tougher sentences?

  54. queenstfarmer 54
    23 November 2011 at 10:47 pm

    Key won this one. Goff won the previous one. The main thing for both parties was no significant mistakes, although that is much more of a problem for Labour given that its trailing so badly in the polls.

  55. Ianupnorth 55
    23 November 2011 at 10:53 pm

    We all seem to have missed Key’s view of Maori

    Maori seats are “an arcane and out-dated idea”

    Ever thought of speaking in Orewa?

  56. Brett Dale 56
    23 November 2011 at 10:56 pm

    Again a slight victory to Key, 60-40 perhaps?

    National will Govern alone (Just) or in a coalition with Maori party.

    It wont be a landslide as some are saying , and it wont be a labour coalition government with the Greens, Maori, TeMana, NzFirst or any other minor party.

    Call me an idiot, or call me crazy, but I think I’m right here.

    • ianmac 56.1
      23 November 2011 at 11:09 pm

      Fair enough Brett. We will see on Sunday.

      The Maori Party might take exception to Maori seats being called an “arcane and outdated system.” Twice. “Welcome aboard you arcane and outdated MPs.”

      Goff seems to think on his feet and seems able to anticipate the implications of the what he says or what Key says. Key seems to be stuck in the talking lines and gets bluffed if the unexpected happens.

    • mik e 56.2
      23 November 2011 at 11:37 pm

      It won’t be over until the fat lady sings ie tariana turia turei aye
      BD I think Key might be disciplined and bonded to the Maori party after election and will have to make some painful decisions to get their support

    • KerryC 56.3
      24 November 2011 at 1:15 am

      Brett you’re an Idiot and Crazy

    • Lanthanide 56.4
      24 November 2011 at 2:11 pm

      Brett, if ACT and UF both don’t get back in, and National doesn’t get an outright majority, then there’s the very real possibility of a Labour lead government backed up by the MP.

      Their policies are much more in line with Labour and Greens than they are National.

  57. Dv 57
    23 November 2011 at 11:05 pm

    A point about Trademe.
    It was established in 99′, and built up durring the Labour years

    • ianmac 57.1
      23 November 2011 at 11:12 pm

      Yes Dv and the Lord of the Rings was made during the Labour years without the need to change the laws for a foreign company. A man of principle would have stood his ground against outside interference.

  58. seeker 58
    23 November 2011 at 11:08 pm

    My favourite moment of the night was while Jon Key was talking about Maori seats being a bit ” arcane and outdated”, Phil Goff was just laughing quietly to himself, looking down and gently shaking his head, in disbelief, I think,

    • Colonial Viper 58.1
      23 November 2011 at 11:28 pm

      Loved Espiner having Key on about that. Guyon couldn’t believe it either.

    • Galeandra 58.2
      23 November 2011 at 11:50 pm

      Did he mean ‘ archaic ‘ or am I missing something?

      • Colonial Viper 58.2.1
        24 November 2011 at 12:02 am

        Since ‘archaic’ and ‘outdated’ wouold mean very similar things in this sense, I think he did mean ‘arcane’.

        As in mysterious, illogical and not-understandable why these Maori seats should exist at all.

        • felix 58.2.1.1
          24 November 2011 at 4:46 am

          Haha, as if Key knows what either of those words mean.

          They’re just talkie-hole noises someone taught him to make.

  59. Tom Gould 59
    23 November 2011 at 11:23 pm

    Good lord, did anyone else see Greg Boyed on the late news, picking over the debate? I know he is good at ‘autocue’ but surely someone must have written a couple questions down for him, big font and double spaced? The guy is brain dead. Motor functions okay, but no-one home.

  60. taxicab 60
    23 November 2011 at 11:31 pm

    Unbelievable !! Just finished watching the debate and the phone rang , couldn’t believe my ears A RECORDED MESSAGE FROM JOHN KEY !!!! asking me to vote for him with all the bullshit about brighter future etc etc ended with voice over authorised by blah blah . Wonder how desperate he is if they are going to those lengths , setting a new precedent in unsolicited electioneering . Joyce’s phone bill this evening will be astronomical .

    [very interesting. Can you tell us which electorate you’re in? Eddie]

    • seeker 60.1
      24 November 2011 at 12:28 am

      Very ‘Victor Meldrew’ comment Taxicab. On reflection having had a similar experience to yourself, it
      was very much like a surreal scenario from “One Foot in the Grave”!

    • Hami Shearlie 60.2
      24 November 2011 at 12:41 am

      I got the pre-recorded Key phone message too – North Shore electorate!

    • Annette 60.3
      24 November 2011 at 7:10 am

      I got one at work (Ellerslie) on my direct dial number a couple of days ago – didn’t let it go past the first few words so no idea of the message. 🙂

  61. Galeandra 61
    23 November 2011 at 11:53 pm

    I got the same call tonight about 6.05 in New Plymouth.

  62. Olwyn 62
    24 November 2011 at 12:04 am

    one of my relatives got one in Pt Chev Auckland.

  63. seeker 63
    24 November 2011 at 12:21 am

    Got one in Nelson last night around 7pm. Very loud voice of Key. Frightened the living daylights out of me and I almost dropped the phone. I rallied quickly though and holding the phone well away from me -almost like holding a snake -I gingerly replaced the receiver while the Key tones were still trying to chant their spells. I felt quite invaded. A horrible, unearthly,experience.

    Who thought this treat up? Hallow e’en was nearly a month ago.

    • Lanthanide 63.1
      24 November 2011 at 2:08 pm

      If you get one of these calls, don’t hang up, because then they can call someone else. Stay on the line.

      • ianmac 63.1.1
        24 November 2011 at 5:58 pm

        Wonder if it still works that if you leave the phone unhung up it ties up the other’s line. Used to work years ago.

  64. Adrian 64
    24 November 2011 at 5:42 pm

    In Blenheim the Nats are PAYING young kids to wave placards at roundabouts. Can’t get any young Nats. This in a town where after a long, long time there is now a Young Labour Branch of 20+ enthusiastic supporters all thanks to a couple of young committed guys. Thanks Aaron and Corey. There is something in the air and it may be a big surprise.

    • ianmac 64.1
      24 November 2011 at 5:55 pm

      The Marlborough Express published my written “Leave John Key Alone” letter on Tuesday’s paper Adrian. It was based on that great video viewed here last week on the same theme. Not sure whether to put it up here. Might cause a smile?
      In my street you would have no idea that there was an Election on.
      Go the Young Labour Branch even in a very very safe Electorate. It ain’t over yet.

  65. Adrian 65
    24 November 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Post it, Ian. it was a beauty.

  66. ianmac 66
    24 November 2011 at 8:55 pm

    Published in the Marlborough Express Tuesday with thanks for the idea from that video about being mean to poor John Key:

    Leave John Key alone. There are those who complain that all year the PM has refused to front up for serious interviews in print or on National Radio or on TV. That may be true for him and his MPs but give the man a break. He has a punishing schedule posing for cameras, and the Polls tell him that he does not need to front for interviews. Some say that non-fronting is anti-democratic or arrogant and taking we the voters for granted, but leave John Key alone. Let the poor chap relax at home with a cup of tea in one hand and a barbecue fork in the other. He may even have time to speak to the man in charge and get Marlborough sunshine hours above our dismal showing this year. But otherwise leave John Key alone – please.

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.