Fire and Fury over North Korea

Written By: - Date published: 3:00 pm, August 12th, 2017 - 60 comments
Categories: uncategorized, us politics, war - Tags: ,

Donald Trump may not know much about the last time the United States Air Force unleashed fire and fury over North Korea. The Koreans certainly remember it.

In the later stages of the Korean war in the 1950s, unchallenged B-29s used bombs and napalm to bomb Korea flat. Every city in North Korea was completely destroyed, more than in Germany and Japan during the Second World War. Gen Curtis Lemay boasted that the United States Air force killed off 20% of the population of North Korea over a period of three years.

That is why Korea has put its Army and air force underground. They have learnt the lesson that the only way to stop America from doing it again is to have nuclear weapons as a deterrent.

It is way past time for a different approach to be taken. Bluster from both sides endangers us all. The Americans and the North Koreans need to talk to each other without any preconditions, and the first move should come from the Americans. That is the only hope for peace.

60 comments on “Fire and Fury over North Korea ”

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  1. Ad 1
    12 August 2017 at 3:25 pm

    A smart President like Obama would make a gesture like shifting those US troops and bases next to Seoul and the border, well to the south. make a gesture that both supports the South Korean president, is shown to be doing something, but doesn’t decrease its capacity to protect the south from attack.

    And of course, the US should commit to eradicating its own nuclear weapons before requiring another nation take down their own nuclear weapons.

    But since we have Trump, once each of the North Korean and U.S. presidents have exhausted the Webster’s Dictionary of exuberant boasting at each other, then what?

    The upcoming test if this gets worse for our own election is: can Labour position smartly on this?

    • adam 1.1
      12 August 2017 at 5:56 pm

      You might want to read up about Obama, and his continuation of Bush’s policy towards North Korea.

      Which was the end of détente, coupled with a major shift toward jingoism.

      • Ad 1.1.1
        12 August 2017 at 7:09 pm

        If you think that Obama and Trump are actually the same on North Korea, you’ll love Fox news summarizing the different approaches, from Clinton to Bush to Obama to Trump:

        http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/11/from-trump-to-clinton-how-us-presidents-have-dealt-with-north-korea.html

        Even Fox sees Obama as a whole bunch smarter than Trump on North Korea.
        And unsurprisingly, Clinton comes out ok form all of them.

        • adam 1.1.1.1
          13 August 2017 at 12:31 am

          Putting up a link to fox new will not be watched by me. Racist and degenerates are the back bone of fox, and I don’t feel like vomit in my mouth.

          I think it’s called the ‘fly over policy’ started by bush 2 in his axis of evil period, that carries on to the present day.

      • D'Esterre 1.1.2
        13 August 2017 at 9:21 pm

        Adam:You might want to read up about Obama, and his continuation of Bush’s policy towards North Korea.’

        Yup. A clip here from Jimmy Dore:

    • D'Esterre 1.2
      13 August 2017 at 9:26 pm

      Ad: “A smart President like Obama would make a gesture like shifting those US troops and bases next to Seoul and the border, well to the south. make a gesture that both supports the South Korean president, is shown to be doing something, but doesn’t decrease its capacity to protect the south from attack.”

      Haha…. smart president! Gave us a good laugh, did that. See this from Jimmy Dore (also posted below, but hey! a bit of repetition never hurts)

  2. Ed 2
    12 August 2017 at 3:26 pm

    George Galloway interviews John Le Boutillier about Trump and North Korea

  3. Sabine 3
    12 August 2017 at 3:28 pm

    and dear Trump, the man who will prevent World War 3, and such does neither need approval from congress nor god to launch the thing.

    and as Senator Lindsay Graham said, its in the Pacific so who cares. Murica Murica Murica.

  4. francesca 4
    12 August 2017 at 3:29 pm

    Totally agree Mike
    Fire and fury sounds suspiciously like a fool strutting and fretting his hour upon the stage”full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”
    Meanwhile I hear the back channels shut down during the Obama years have been hastily reopened, and negotiations are underway.
    The US would do well to heed N Korea’s requests to stop the aggressive military exercises and to be prepared to enter in to a proper peace treaty.
    That utter fool Turnbull is not helping

  5. Eco maori 5
    12 August 2017 at 3:43 pm

    In the 1950 China was not the second biggest economy in the world .Trumps is being contained by the republicans and Generals I think his only weapon is his Twitter account that is why he wont give it up most politicians are puppets to power behind the facade

    • ropata 5.1
      12 August 2017 at 11:43 pm

      Obviously big oil and the military has Trump by the balls, but he is still a dangerous loose cannon endangering world stability. USA abdication of leadership is leaving a power vacuum, shit is gonna get worse before it gets better

  6. Sabine 6
    12 August 2017 at 3:53 pm

    its a day for music

  7. Stuart Munro 7
    12 August 2017 at 3:58 pm

    Obama was going to talk to North Korea, then didn’t. So much for audacious hope.

    Since Bush, the Koreans have been increasingly skeptical of the US. The US did a lot of indiscriminate killing in Korea during the Korean War, notably of Cheju people who were not Stalinist, and since the 486 generation everybody knows.

    http://www.art-in-society.de/AS14/KOR2/Korean-war-prehistory.html

    Pearl Buck, the US missionary and novelist who wrote The Good Earth, wrote a novel on Korea too – The Living Reed.

    I wouldn’t expect anything real from Trump – the US military is overcommitted with the gulf and Afghanistan. But it says a lot that he gets into a pissing contest with a murderous dictator and comes off looking less sane.

  8. Sabine 8
    12 August 2017 at 3:59 pm

    “Shep, there appears to be a large chicken in front of the white house”

    indeed there is. http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/trump-chicken-white-house-1202522376/

    and the man with bone spur can launch the bomb anytime he wants to and there is no one who could potentially stop him from it.

    oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

    I for one welcome the rapture.

  9. Whispering Kate 9
    12 August 2017 at 4:41 pm

    I for one am worried for my family who live in the US, with a lunatic at the wheel and tweeting like his life depended on it, isn’t it about time someone took him into the back room and dealt to him as only they know fit. Surely it is time to remove the reins of control from him. He needs to be looked at by a doctor/specialist as the man seriously needs his head examined.

    This brinkmanship pissing contest has gone on for too long and if there is anybody sane left in the Whitehouse they need to be acting responsibly by removing him from office.

    • Eralc 9.1
      12 August 2017 at 11:24 pm

      I agree with you. We have family living in New York. They are seriously concerned. Along with the 78% in NY, they did not vote Trump.

  10. Eco maori 10
    12 August 2017 at 5:08 pm

    Mike Pence is a republican man if Trump goes he’s in and then watch the Republican change all the American laws to suite them and there war machine

    • spikeyboy 10.1
      12 August 2017 at 9:05 pm

      Exactly. Thats the beautiful thing about Trump. Everyone hates him so much that whatever he says is going to happen, the exact opposite occurs. Every time he says lets start a war here or here then thats a place that everybody else says no we cant do that. And its been a long time since lots of people in power in Usa have said no to any war. He got to fire a few missiles in Syria and gets to ramp up the misery in Yemen because these were someone elses wars started by other presidents but Trump is going to struggle to be allowed to start any new wars. The Usa needs to believe they are exceptional but Trump is such a basket case that its just too obvious how vicious there foreign policy is. Long live the basket case

  11. Sabine 11
    12 August 2017 at 5:22 pm

    currently in the US.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/igd_news

    https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/status/896201381027106817?

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-white-virginia-rally-20170811-story.html

    my father passed away and one of my brothers send me a picture of him, and one of his father as i had none here in NZ.

    the picture of my ‘grandfather’ is that of a twenty something in the Uniform of the Wehrmacht, his son was born in 1940 and he died in 1942. He barely was a father he never was a Grandfather, he died in a ditch in Russia.
    In the meantime history is repeating itself cause people are dumb, greedy and comfortably numb.

    as for those that want to speak about Godwin, the guy is dead, and this is the history of my people and it is being repeated again albeit in a different flavour.

    • Terry 11.1
      12 August 2017 at 6:23 pm

      OK I know I’m bring pedantic, but “Comfortably Numb” is from “The Wall. The picture above is the cover from Dark Side of the Moon. The two should never be mixed.

      • Sabine 11.1.1
        12 August 2017 at 6:27 pm

        sorry, i uploaded the picture from youtube.
        what do i know? I wuz little then. Its just a tune from my childhood that i thought would fit.

    • ropata 11.2
      12 August 2017 at 11:48 pm

      it ain’t Godwinism to point out that actual Nazis are gathering power in the USA.
      it’s not hyperbole, the USA is no longer a beacon of liberty, it is turning dark

      • Stuart Munro 11.2.1
        13 August 2017 at 12:25 am

        Godwin himself wrote “If you’re thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead…” Family history is as real as it gets for most of us.

        William Godwin may be better reading though – definitely proto-socialist and a lovely wordsmith – Mary didn’t learn all her skills from Shelley.

  12. marty mars 12
    12 August 2017 at 5:26 pm

    Very good post thank you.

    The Koreans have suffered so much.

    I’m struggling to find optimism around this scenario. I mean trump? ffs homer Simpson would be better than him – safer for sure.

  14. Katipo 14
    12 August 2017 at 6:23 pm

    US comedian Bill Burr responds to a letter from a concerned fellow citizen about North Korea.
    (Salty language warning)
    https://youtu.be/3TFY16RQG8k

  15. RedLogix 15
    12 August 2017 at 6:37 pm

    Many years back I read a decent analysis on just the very point you make Mike; that because all of North Korea’s important assets and population are so very deeply buried, they were possibly one of the very few nations on earth who might attack the USA and win.

    It sounds preposterous, but all NK has to manage is to flatten Seoul with an immense firestorm of conventional artillery, successfully land one or two nukes in a large US city, and Tokyo for good measure, provoke the US into a nuclear strike, and wait for the Chinese to retaliate on the Americans. It’s quite possible that along with the cockroaches, the North Korean regime would emerge quite untouched from the rubble and green glass … .

    Assumptions the US military machine must inevitably prevail are just that …

    • Draco T Bastard 15.1
      12 August 2017 at 7:49 pm

      Assumptions the US military machine must inevitably prevail are just that …

      The assumptions that the US was invincible have been proven in error for the last few years. Iran, Afghanistan, ISIS – all have proven the sheer weakness of the US military and their diplomacy.

      They can do a lot of physical damage but they can’t direct the world the way that they’d like, the way that they’d come to believe that they could.

      • Ad 15.1.1
        12 August 2017 at 8:01 pm

        The last war they won was World War 2.

        Plus Grenada.

        • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1.1
          12 August 2017 at 8:07 pm

          The last war they won was World War 2.

          And indications are that without Russia they wouldn’t have.

          • RedLogix 15.1.1.1.1
            12 August 2017 at 8:30 pm

            Considering that some 80% of the German army was destroyed in Russia I always thought it was way more than an ‘indication’.

            The Eastern Front was the largest and bloodiest theatre of World War II. It is generally accepted as being the deadliest conflict in human history, with over 30 million killed as a result.[8] The German armed forces suffered 80% of its military deaths in the Eastern Front.[88] It involved more land combat than all other World War II theatres combined. The distinctly brutal nature of warfare on the Eastern Front was exemplified by an often willful disregard for human life by both sides. It was also reflected in the ideological premise for the war, which also saw a momentous clash between two directly opposed ideologies.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

            Us westerners tend to have a distorted and exaggerated view of our role in defeating the Third Reich. Certainly events like the defeat of Rommel, the denial of Saudi oil to the German war machine, the Battle of the Atlantic which so narrowly avoided Churchill’s surrender in 1942, and the Battle of Britain which so damaged the German Air Force, not to mention the invasion of Italy … while all significant tactical victories … overlook the raw fact that it was the Russians who slowly, brutally ground down the bulk of the German war machine.

            At a terrible price. In the age groups up to 40 yrs, some 20% of their people were lost. And given a large fraction of these were young men, it’s fair to say an entire generation was ripped in half.

            • Sabine 15.1.1.1.1.1
              13 August 2017 at 12:49 am

              only a fool sends men to russia.
              you don’t defeat the Bear and his comrade, General Winter.

        • lprent 15.1.1.2
          13 August 2017 at 9:04 am

          And Panama

      • RedLogix 15.1.2
        12 August 2017 at 8:06 pm

        That’s the bit that worries me. Trump’s bloody bluster may well have the NK regime calculating that even if they know they cannot win in the conventional sense, they may be able to make the Americans lose worse than them.

    • ropata 15.2
      12 August 2017 at 11:59 pm

      That is fucking insane but that never stopped us from going to war before.

  16. JC 16
    12 August 2017 at 7:45 pm

    “This is the way the world ends
    Not with a bang but a whimper” …

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Beach_(novel)

    or…

    …. Associate Professor Benoît Pelopidas is in New Zealand as a guest of the University of Auckland and the Peace and Disarmament Education Trust to mark the 30th anniversary of New Zealand’s nuclear free law. He’ll give the university’s 2017 Chapman Public Lecture on August 15, entitled: “Facing nuclear danger: from proliferation to global nuclear vulnerability”, and seven other public talks between August 3-16.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/201854520/benoit-pelopidas-how-close-are-we-to-nuclear-war

  17. Ad 17
    12 August 2017 at 9:23 pm

    Not necessarily “brilliant”, but a whole bunch better than Trump.

  18. mickysavage 18
    12 August 2017 at 11:29 pm

    Man I’m over in Hong Kong and off to China soon …

    Surely Trump would not be this stupid …

    • Sabine 18.1
      12 August 2017 at 11:55 pm

      currently he is proposing invading Venezuela.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-venezuela-military_us_598e317ee4b0909642971b4f?section=us_politics

      I would not hold my breath for the geezer to do something to get people too not get to upset with his many winnings.

      • Stuart Munro 18.1.1
        13 August 2017 at 12:31 am

        Trump – the new Vyacheslav Plehve:

        “Alexey Nikolaevich, you don’t know Russia’s internal situation. To avert a revolution, we need a small victorious war.”

        The Japanese victory at Tsushima put paid to that strategy.

        • Sabine 18.1.1.1
          13 August 2017 at 12:43 am

          Göring: Why, of course, the people don’t want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

          • Stuart Munro 18.1.1.1.1
            13 August 2017 at 1:00 am

            Interesting, thanks.

            Back when I was reading up on corruption though, I came across an additional piece of the puzzle, which was what is described as a ‘logrolling alliance’. A logrolling alliance is like the media, far-right, industrial or agricultural interests and the Gnats in NZ. This loose alliance cooperates on a quid pro quo basis but also unites against progress on spec that their allies will support them if an important issue arises later on.

            The example of logrolling alliance the corruption book chose was the so-called ‘marriage of iron and rye’ which was a cabal of the German military industrialists and the dregs of the landowning aristocracy. This group was very pro war because selling guns or battleships was so profitable.

            • Sabine 18.1.1.1.1.1
              13 August 2017 at 1:25 am

              i give you Country Joe Mcdonald.

              fixn’to die rag

              https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/countryjoeandthefish/ifeellikeimfixintodieragtake1.html

              “There’s plenty good money to be made
              By supplying the Army with the tools of its trade,
              Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
              They drop it on the Viet Cong.
              And it’s one, two, three,
              What are we fighting for?
              Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn,”

              “Come on mothers throughout the land,
              Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
              Come on fathers, and don’t hesitate
              To send your sons off before it’s too late.
              You can be the first ones in your block
              To have your boy come home in a box. ”

              it was an excellent song then, it still is a good song now, just replace vietnam with Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela and any other country they might want to destroy for profit and a medal.

  19. WILD KATIPO 19
    13 August 2017 at 1:47 am

    Donald J Trump.

    Made a few mistakes, has been set up to look like hes incompetent and impulsive. By the same news media that talked up the globalists. Obama , Clinton and the organizations that back them . Even John Pilger / Julian Assange exposed the Clinton Foundation as being a conduit for Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain to purchase arms for ISIS.

    So what do we make of this?

    A USA missile strike in Syria at the same time as Trump was conducting heads of state meetings with the second in command of China. And then afterwards had extensive talks with the same. So much so that China has been forced to become part of the ‘ holding back the aggression’ ( despite wanting North Korea as a buffer zone ) …

    Trump is no globalist.

    He is happy to be friends with Russia’s Putin. He is happy to cooperate with China.

    Yet the neo cons and the liberals hate him.

    Why ?

    They want a catalyst , and to adhere to a 19th century theory : Battle for the heartland ,

    Search Results
    Battle For The Heartland: Understanding America’s Unrelenting …
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/…/battle-for-the-heartland-understanding-americas-unrelenti.

    Why does Trump so threaten the neo cons and the liberals?… because they are two sides of the same spectrum?

    The ‘ one world government’ / new world order that George Bush senior continually spoke about ?

    George H.W. Bush New World Order Speech – YouTube
    you tube▶ 1:14
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txukr5zgHnw

    And could it be that there is actually ,… a point of disclosure that exposes a well managed geopolitical agenda that transcends even limited tactical nuclear warfare in a localized region,… a region that simply becomes a convenient excuse for the introduction of a truth so shocking that it , being viewed by satellite and global internet communications , shatters modern accepted paradigms of science , religion and established political orders?

    I think L A Mazulli is worth looking into.

    UFO Discussion! The Coming Great Deception – YouTube
    Video for UFO Discussion! The Coming Great Deception▶ 53:38
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlU1hsLwUYo

    And if you need a little encouragement from a respected elder who held his own and crossed many generations in appeal because of his simple , loving , down to earth , non compromising stance and compassion for people , here’s Johnny Cash . One of the greatest. From the bluesers to the Heavy Metalists to the Rappers. They all respect the old Grandfather who spoke truth all his long life .

    Johnny Cash – God’s Gonna Cut You Down – YouTube

    • WILD KATIPO 19.1
      13 August 2017 at 3:14 am

      Oh , … and then there’s Roswell , and Operation Highjump.

      Now we know that Operation Paperclip was bonafide because that is where we had Wernher von Braun become the head of NASA. He among the numbers taken as part of Operation Paperclip in which over 80 German scientists involved in the NAZI rocket / flying disk program were basically abducted by the Americans during World War Two,… 80 German scientists and their family’s were spirited out of Germany to White Sands Missile base and other USA Air Force facility’s,… given false ID and repatriated to the USA,… while the Americans let the Russians do the demolition work on Berlin… and the end product ?… the world was introduced to stealth fighter technology… they did it to gain technological superiority over other nations post WW2.

      US Navy Zumwalt Class STEALTH SHIP – YouTube
      youtube▶ 10:21

      Then we had the Roswell thing :

      Roswell 70 Years Later! – YouTube
      youtube▶ 30:05

      Dontcha think , … that like mushrooms … we are being kept in the dark and fed on bullshit?

      Have a wee think about it . And realize that the internet is a wonderful thing,… that if you are really willing to think outside the square , spit out the obvious red herrings and misinformation that we have been programmed to operate in , … and actually dare to imagine,… that there is possibly , another place, another ‘ dimension’ ,… and that the man from Galilee that spoke of these things over 2000 years ago was speaking the truth.

      And that , you are all in fact , valuable and irreplaceable human beings.

      Food for thought.

  20. WILD KATIPO 20
    13 August 2017 at 4:12 am

    So , just why did the head of the Russian Orthodox Church shake hands with penguins and meet with the Roman Catholic Church after 1000 years of estrangement in Antarctica , … just why did Senator Kerry travel there in the middle of the USA elections , and why on earth did Vladimir Putin do the same a few months before… and officials from Australia , … and just why did Buzz Aldrin travel there at the same time as the head of the Russian Orthodox church as well?…. and why did Lockheed Martin deploy so many workers there… and why is there an international ‘ no fly zone’ in the center of Antarctica unless there is specific military clearance?

    The ‘ Hollow earth theory ? ‘… well according to Admiral Byrd that’s exactly whats happening. And according to NAZI Arianism that’s why they were reaching into places like Tibet for information…

    Ever heard of the spearhead of Linginus, people ?

    #10 – Spear of Destiny / Spear of Longinus – Episode 10 – YouTube
    youtube▶ 28:33
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64_qXlIgBv8

    Neuschwabenland, Antarctica and Operation Highjump – YouTube
    Video for new swabia antarctica youtube▶ 9:30
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VSIHbZk_CQ

    Anyhows,… here’s a song from my 21 year old son Finn on the night.

    I liked it and decided to stick it on here because young people are so precious. Young people are cool.

    Kid Rock – Redneck Paradise (Remix) ft. Hank Williams Jr … – YouTube

  21. Eco maori 21
    13 August 2017 at 10:03 am

    Trump is eroding USA soft power .
    It will take years for the real people in power year’s the reverse this .
    So the Generals won’t let Trump push the button .The first sign of this was when
    the aircraft carrier totally ignored Trumps orders that was a sign to the world stock markets /people don’t shit your pants we got this Idiot .
    Why has Trump sacked so much staff because they are not doing as he ask.
    And now we have the communication tool that can expose there bullshit in days not 10 years and the Generals or there aids have read that famous tactical book The Art of War it’s is always better cheaper to use diplomacy than WAR

  22. Exkiwiforces 22
    13 August 2017 at 8:24 pm

    The only way you are going to get North Korea around the table for tea and sandwiches is for China to pull out of the mutual defence and trade Treaty between China and North Korea that was signed by parties in the late 50’s or 60’s. This treaty has allow the North to carry on the way it is at moment with almost impunity against any UN Security Council resolutions to date. If China did pull the pin on this treaty, I’m of the opinion that North Korea would suddenly start behaving itself and be open to talks. The other thing we need to remember is that New Zealand also signed the armistice agreement as a part of UN Forces during the Korean War thence why we still have members of the NZDF attached to the UN Headquarters and the NZDF trained with its South Korea counterparts. In other words we will still have fulfill our UN obligations under the current treaty that we signed back at the end of the Korean War.

  23. D'Esterre 23
    13 August 2017 at 9:49 pm

    Mike Smith: “In the later stages of the Korean war in the 1950s, unchallenged B-29s used bombs and napalm to bomb Korea flat. Every city in North Korea was completely destroyed, more than in Germany and Japan during the Second World War. Gen Curtis Lemay boasted that the United States Air force killed off 20% of the population of North Korea over a period of three years.”

    Indeed. Here’s Jimmy Dore on the subject:

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