How To Get There 17/3/19

Written By: - Date published: 6:54 am, March 17th, 2019 - 34 comments
Categories: Deep stuff - Tags:

 

This post is a place for positive discussion of the future.

An Open Mike for ideas, solutions and the discussion of the possible.

The Big Picture, rather than a snapshot of the day’s goings on. Topics rather than topical.

We’d like to think it’s success will be measured in the quality of comments rather than the quantity.

So have at it!

Let us know what you think …

34 comments on “How To Get There 17/3/19 ”

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  1. cleangreen 1
    17 March 2019 at 8:04 am

    NZ Government offers a subsidy to buy an electric car’ why not also for ‘Electric locomotives’ also?

    So CEAC calls for Government innovation to use Electric EV trains as they also benefit of having no toxic tyre particulate emissions -and rail uses 5 to 8 times less fuel to move each tonne each km than trucks use to move the same freight..

    We need to now reduce our overuse of climate emitting fuels.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1903/S00137/ceac-calls-for-government-innovation-to-use-ev-trains.htm

    • Stuart Munro. 1.1
      17 March 2019 at 9:32 am

      Things like an electric car subsidy are a somewhat gentrified intervention, accessible only to those demographics who really don’t need a great deal of government support.

      A positive change should ideally be accessible to people at all levels of society, and reducing material consumption ought to a consideration.

      Tiny houses and tiny house communities are one such strategy, requiring less space, less materials to build, and less energy to heat or operate. At present there is little or no support for the large and growing ‘tiny’ community. Council permitting charges are not controlled or reduced for efficient buildings, which would be one way to counter the reigning trope of building to minimum insulation standards.

      A kiwibuild initiative founded on tiny houses would achieve some of the things the present scheme does not – address homelessness, allow a high build rate, provide the social benefits of secure housing to insecure communities.

      This lady speaks well of them: https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/latest/110312155/home-truths-accidental-tiny-house-owner-has-house-will-travel-if-need-be

  2. Robert Guyton 2
    17 March 2019 at 8:06 am

    Come sit down beside me, I said to myself.
    And although it doesn’t make sense,
    I held my own hand as a small sign of trust
    And together I sat on the fence.

    Michael Leunig

    • Dennis Frank 2.1
      17 March 2019 at 8:17 am

      And those with more than two selves would sit in a row. Did you ever read The Minds of Billy Milligan? I ended up buying about a dozen books about MPD, fascinating stuff. Then the professionals decided not to call it that any more.

      • Robert Guyton 2.1.1
        17 March 2019 at 8:24 am

        I haven’t read that, Dennis, but several of my MP’s may have 🙂

        • greywarshark 2.1.1.1
          17 March 2019 at 10:18 am

          MPD – multiple personality disorder
          Recently I was reading the thoughts of someone talking about our multiple layers of consciousness – the surface, the conscious, the sub-conscious and
          thinking about the unconscious. It sounds interesting – are we formed and our body operating according to what we think? It was one of some suggested reading given to me by a bloke who has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and such people have to overcome blocks coming from their brain chemistry and that can lead to depression. The way forward for such people is: How to make the best of what your brain and body allows for your life.

          https://ultimatehealthpodcast.com/dr-bruce-lipton/
          142: Dr. Bruce Lipton – The Biology Of Belief • How To Reprogram Your Subconscious Mind • The Importance Of Loving Yourself

          Dr. Bruce Lipton is a pioneer in the new biology and is an internationally recognized leader in bridging science and spirit. A cell biologist by training, Bruce was on the faculty of the University of Wisconsin’s School of Medicine and later performed groundbreaking stem-cell research at Stanford University. He’s the best-selling author of The Biology of Belief and received the 2009 prestigious Goi Peace Award in honour of his scientific contribution to world harmony.

          In this episode, we discuss:

          The experience Bruce had in second grade that set the course for the rest of his life
          There is hope… crisis is an opportunity for evolution
          We’ve all been programmed… we require this
          Only 1% of disease is associated with genetics
          The pictures you have in your mind create chemistry in your body
          We all have two minds – conscious and subconscious
          95% of your life is controlled by your subconscious mind/your programming
          The Honeymoon Effect – how to keep it going forever
          You can change your program – 3 ways to do this
          Energy psychology enhances superlearning
          How to assess your current programming
          Epigenetics explained…
          The environment controls your genes
          The connection between the new science and the placebo & nocebo effects
          The importance of loving yourself
          Consciousness is the foundation of reality
          We are all creators of our personal worlds and collectively we are creating the world we all experience

          • Ant 2.1.1.1.1
            17 March 2019 at 11:51 am

            “Consciousness is the foundation of reality”
            Esoteric writers (Steiner, Bailey) posit an abstract mind as well – one that deals in symbols and meaning lying behind phenomena, including self-generated ones. The abstract mind gains in appeal as one grows weary of the repetitive nature of the world and its ways. When integrated with altruism the abstract delivers a high degree of synthesis – leading to the understanding of consciousness as a bridge between form (matter) and pure energy (Spirit). The connection is not an inscape to a subjective world of unproductive inwardness but an awakening to the imperative of harmonious interaction (service in the old terminology) with all of earth’s life forms.

          • Dennis Frank 2.1.1.1.2
            17 March 2019 at 12:07 pm

            I’ve met Bruce, seen him deliver a speech to a conference too. He’s cool, and an excellent presenter. An old buddy of mine is currently living in a house in Karekare owned by Bruce & his wife – they spent a few years establishing an intentional community in the upper Kaipara with some other people.

  3. Dennis Frank 3
    17 March 2019 at 8:26 am

    How to get there incorporates the transition into non-violence as a collective praxis. You could even say Civilisation 1.01 = people are civilised when they adopt peaceful coexistence as an ethos.

    Yesterday I inadvertently advocated ramping this up to the global level to eliminate islamophobia, via the UN organising a conference of Islamic theologians to agree to delete the instruction in the Koran that requires believers to kill unbelievers.

    On reflection, I realised respondents would dismiss this flight of fancy as non-viable. Therefore I will recycle it here to signal the contrary. It’s how the establishment can reform itself on the basis of credibility. Time to cut the crap.

    • Robert Guyton 3.1
      17 March 2019 at 8:41 am

      Peaceful coexistence sounds, to cynical ears, like weakness and vulnerability; how can you defend yourselves against someone who hasn’t bought in to your philosophy?
      My ears aren’t cynical and I’m in search of the pathway that leads to the state you describe, Dennis. I suspect though, that such a world would be one where absorbing dysfunctional behaviour would still be a factor; the human mind, with it’s lack of limits, seems to have a built-in capacity for self-harm. Animal communities must suffer the same effect; each pride or pack probably throws up a crazy and it would have to be contained, excluded or otherwise rendered harmless, for the sake of the collective.

      • Dennis Frank 3.1.1
        17 March 2019 at 11:30 am

        Apparently in olden times the village idiot was tolerated but anyone sociopathic got dealt to by the community real fast. If not by communal violence, simply ejecting them into the countryside worked real good.

        Nowadays our tolerance of the rabid right/left is being tested. You see how readily those here resort to being abusive once their bigotry is revealed. Choosing not to reciprocate only gets us so far – pollution of the social environment requires social sanctions and enforcement…

    • left_forward 3.2
      17 March 2019 at 9:44 am

      You appear to have missed the point of the replies to you yesterday DF, pointing out that you first begin with Christianity. I assume that you do not follow Islam yourself, so to you, ‘getting there’ requires ‘the other’ to wake up, while you disply unconciousness when it relates to the violence intrinsic in Christian practice (the white supremicist Crusades, KKK, Inquisition, etc), which has dominated Western so-called civilisation for 2000 years.

      It is not that your idea is non-viable… it’s self delusional to begin with how others should change.

      Why did you not suggest a conference of Christian theologians?

      • WeTheBleeple 3.2.1
        17 March 2019 at 9:47 am

        Absolutely agree. This is not the time for old white men to tell us what’s required.

      • Dennis Frank 3.2.2
        17 March 2019 at 10:57 am

        If anyone had identified an equivalent religious instruction in the Bible, that would be a valid argument. Since they have been unable to do so, observers are likely to see hallucinations thereof as an attempt to distract commentators with straw men.

        • left_forward 3.2.2.1
          17 March 2019 at 11:47 am

          They did, and then you unconvincingly and unilaterally judged their comprehensive responses as non-equivalent. They protested and you avoided.

          This to me was unquestionable subjective bias. Particularly given Friday’s atrocity, your splitting of hairs is so much harder to swallow and my patience, like my hair, is rapidly thinning.

          • Dennis Frank 3.2.2.1.1
            17 March 2019 at 12:00 pm

            Public policy cannot be formulated on the basis of leftist bigotry. It requires all involved to find common ground and articulate it. Commentators who retreat into emotionalism, subjectivity, and evasion of democratic process are irrelevant in the final analysis.

            Anyone who devotes time to helping the process of democratic decision-making along tends to learn this. Our time is valuable. We ought not waste it. The learning from the massacre must focus on solutions to the problem.

  4. Sabine 4
    17 March 2019 at 9:59 am

    so going out to get some plants and get some winter food in.

    Planning in a few trees for the future. Plums, Apricots, Peaches and such.

    Still not mowing my lawn and the critters like it, and for what its worth i had very little – to none – pests in my veggie patch.

    The bloke is getting used to not mowing the lawn, i am fairly sure he does not miss it at all 🙂

    looking at also procuring a little push bike, maybe an e- bike. T’would be a most stylish lady mover 🙂

    • Robert Guyton 4.1
      17 March 2019 at 11:43 am

      You’re definitely getting there, Sabine 🙂
      Not to be dissing e-bikes but I’ve always thought a lady’s legs were the most stylish lady mover 🙂

  6. CLEANGREEN 6
    17 March 2019 at 11:00 am

    Or this;

    https://www.wikihow.com/Help-Save-the-Earth

    Drive and fly less often.

    Another big source of air pollution that has led to global warming is emissions from cars, trucks, planes and other vehicles.

    The manufacture of the vehicles, the gas needed to run them, the chemicals they burn, and the production of roads all play a part.

    If you can drive and fly less often, you’ll be doing a lot to help save the planet.[4]
    Walk or ride your bike instead of driving, whenever possible. Find bike routes in your town and use them!

    Join a carpool or vanpool to get to work if biking or walking isn’t an option.

    Report smoking vehicles to your local air agency.

    Maintain your vehicle properly.

    Purchase radial tires and keep them properly inflated for your vehicle.

    Paint with brushes or rollers instead of using spray paints to minimize harmful emissions.

  7. greywarshark 7
    17 March 2019 at 12:27 pm

    Manuka is in the news. Marahau switching to natives Nelson Mail headline.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/111243450/erosionprone-land-behind-marahau-to-be-switched-from-pine-to-native-forest
    Native trees are to be planted on 114 hectares of erosion-prone land behind Marahau as a replacement for radiata pine.
    The area, which was badly damaged in February 2018 when ex-Tropical Cyclone Gita slammed into Tasman district, is to be replanted with 114,000 mānuka trees.

    Tasman District Council environment and planning committee chairman, deputy mayor Tim King, said the replanting project was proposed in an effort to mitigate the effect of adverse weather events in areas with Separation Point granite.

    The extremely erodible bedrock covers an area about 10km wide and extends more than 100km, from Separation Point in Abel Tasman National Park to Mt Murchison. It is deeply weathered at the land surface, can be several metres deep and readily breaks.

    This sounds a very worthy project going in the right direction to keep down erosion and hopefully ensuring that some areas are never cut down, or logged, and remain permanently because of the nature of the land they are growing on. However I
    think about the effects of the unnatural plantation mono-culture that is being criticised now that deeper thought about our practices is being forced on us by the evidence of its disadvantages, and the weather extremes we are experiencing and know will continue.

    And I think of Robert’s diverse patch and what you think would make this good move a better one Robert.

    Also there is myrtle rust which can blow across from Oz apparently. The area needs to have hardy trees. Will this disease make manuka a question mark?
    Myrtle rust could affect iconic New Zealand plants including pōhutukawa, mānuka, rātā, kānuka, swamp maire and ramarama, as well as commercially-grown species such as eucalyptus.
    https://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/pests-and-threats/diseases/myrtle-rust/
    Also definitive: https://hascbotany.weebly.com/myrsine-myrtle-southern-beech.html

    I wonder what firebreaks they plan for this apparently steep area. Manuka is high as a flammable shrub/tree. What firebreaks will be planted that will be compatible with manuka? How high would they need to grow – above the manuka? (Karamu only gorws to 1.5m but is hardy.) How wide would the firebreaks need to be to prevent cross-over of embers? What style of planting – lines going up a hill, thick coverage on the crown of hills, and on vertical ridges, bands going across the hill?

    This article lists most and least flammable NZ trees. (Manuka grows to 8m)
    https://thisnzlife.co.nz/trees-nz-least-flammable/
    Least flammable group – info e&oe
    Karamu (coprosma robusta) 1.5-6m hardy Protect from possums when planting. https://www.nrc.govt.nz/media/11145/treesfortheland2013web.pdf
    Kowhai 8m
    Pseudopanax arboreus to 8m hardy fast growing but possums like it.
    Kohekohe Possum target
    Kotukutuku (Tree fuchsia) doesn’t like dry
    Mapou 6m (Myrsine australis) https://thisnzlife.co.nz/10-clay-loving-native-trees/
    (Myrtles and Myrsine – this is a large collection of plants – don’t know if they would all be susceptible to Myrtle Rust.)
    Hangehange 3m needs medium shade

    Seems good link for natives.
    https://www.nrc.govt.nz/media/11118/aplantershandbookfornorthlandnatives2015.pdf

    Manuka links.
    http://woodnet.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Tree-Grower-May-2014-Manuka.pdf
    Growing manuka for farm foresters and other small-scale foresters.
    Julian Bateson
    Manuka is an excellent coloniser of bare ground. As a result, for many years it was thought of as a weed on agricultural land as the plants started the first part of the process of succession, taking bare grassland eventually to full mature forest. Currently manuka has some economic uses, as a source of nectar for bees to produce manuka honey, as firewood and for the manuka oil from the leaves.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/88559823/discover-the-beauty-that-manuka-can-bring-to-your-garden

  8. greywarshark 8
    17 March 2019 at 12:36 pm

    Manuka links.
    http://woodnet.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Tree-Grower-May-2014-Manuka.pdf
    Growing manuka for farm foresters and other small-scale foresters.
    Julian Bateson
    Manuka is an excellent coloniser of bare ground. As a result, for many years it was thought of as a weed on agricultural land as the plants started the first part of the process of succession, taking bare grassland eventually to full mature forest. Currently manuka has some economic uses, as a source of nectar for bees to produce manuka honey, as firewood and for the manuka oil from the leaves.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/88559823/discover-the-beauty-that-manuka-can-bring-to-your-garden

    Thinking about manuka and honey in general.
    And there is no certainty that honey will provide a reliable income stream for the area either. This recent report says that those not producing manuka honey have not been getting good returns (probably because of thieving and varroa mites etc) and I have read that manuka production might be in excess of the market. And of course we have to contend with rorts from new dealers coming in to NZ looking for quick, easy profits (recent Chinese one) and Australians trying to capture the Manuka name and ride on our backs into the world markets.

    This link relates their unease about the direction of management that the honey industry should take.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/384184/beekeepers-turn-down-proposal-for-commodity-levy

    Extra – Info on possums.
    http://www.wildaboutnz.co.nz/2010/12/possums/

  9. greywarshark 9
    17 March 2019 at 12:43 pm

    (I am havingto play around with my long and link filled comment mod. so have trimmed it down once and now again – so there may be multiples in the mod. line.)
    ***************************************

    Manuka is in the news. Marahau switching to natives Nelson Mail headline.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/111243450/erosionprone-land-behind-marahau-to-be-switched-from-pine-to-native-forest
    Native trees are to be planted on 114 hectares of erosion-prone land behind Marahau as a replacement for radiata pine.
    The area, which was badly damaged in February 2018 when ex-Tropical Cyclone Gita slammed into Tasman district, is to be replanted with 114,000 mānuka trees.

    Tasman District Council environment and planning committee chairman, deputy mayor Tim King, said the replanting project was proposed in an effort to mitigate the effect of adverse weather events in areas with Separation Point granite.

    The extremely erodible bedrock covers an area about 10km wide and extends more than 100km, from Separation Point in Abel Tasman National Park to Mt Murchison. It is deeply weathered at the land surface, can be several metres deep and readily breaks.

    This sounds a very worthy project going in the right direction to keep down erosion and hopefully ensuring that some areas are never cut down, or logged, and remain permanently because of the nature of the land they are growing on.

    However I think about the effects of the unnatural plantation mono-culture that is being criticised now that deeper thought about our practices is being forced on us by the evidence of its disadvantages, and the weather extremes we are experiencing and know will continue.

    And I think of Robert’s diverse patch and what you think would make this good move a better one Robert.

    Also there is myrtle rust which can blow across from Oz apparently. The area needs to have hardy trees. Will this disease make manuka a question mark?
    Myrtle rust could affect iconic New Zealand plants including pōhutukawa, mānuka, rātā, kānuka, swamp maire and ramarama, as well as commercially-grown species such as eucalyptus.
    https://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/pests-and-threats/diseases/myrtle-rust/

    I wonder what firebreaks they plan for this apparently steep area. Manuka is high as a flammable shrub/tree. What firebreaks will be planted that will be compatible with manuka? How high would they need to grow – above the manuka? (Karamu may only grow to 1.5m+ but is hardy.) How wide would the firebreaks need to be to prevent cross-over of embers? What style of planting – lines going up a hill, thick coverage on the crown of hills, and on vertical ridges, bands going across the hill?

    This article lists most and least flammable NZ trees. (Manuka grows to 8m)
    https://thisnzlife.co.nz/trees-nz-least-flammable/
    Least flammable group – info given – think e&oe
    Karamu (coprosma robusta) 1.5-6m hardy Protect from possums when planting. https://www.nrc.govt.nz/media/11145/treesfortheland2013web.pdf
    Kowhai 8m
    Pseudopanax arboreus to 8m hardy fast growing but possums like it.
    Kohekohe Possum target
    Kotukutuku (Tree fuchsia) doesn’t like dry
    Mapou 6m (Myrsine australis) https://thisnzlife.co.nz/10-clay-loving-native-trees/
    (Myrtles and Myrsine – this is a large collection of plants – don’t know if they would all be susceptible to Myrtle Rust.)
    Hangehange 3m needs medium shade

    Seems good link for natives.
    https://www.nrc.govt.nz/media/11118/aplantershandbookfornorthlandnatives2015.pdf

  10. cleangreen 10
    17 March 2019 at 3:49 pm

    Greywarshark;

    Have you seen any plantings of manuka int the Urawera’s also in your research?

    Our farm east of the Ureweras is getting some smoggy hills and what looks like the bush is burning and dust particles is coming from the Uraweras hills west of us.

    It must be up in the Uraweras and we think, that the scrub is being burnt off to clear the land up there for either Manauka or dairy we believe but we so far cannot see anything in the press yet? Have you seen anything?

  11. greywarshark 11
    17 March 2019 at 10:12 pm

    cleangreen
    I’ve just started looking at manuka – prompted by How to get There and Robert and WtB’s horti-but not haughty-culture enthusiasm. So am looking at the burnt out areas of Pigeon Valley in the Top of the South and seeing what the authorities plan. Then seeing what the wise land guardians here have as ideas.

    I think Tuhoe are very interesting. I hadn’t heard anything about latest developments except they won an ward for a beaut building I think at Lake Waikaremoana. Tuhoe may very well be wanting to turn land into grazing, forest etc in some areas. Perhaps plant a planned forest even if it isn’t a plantation forest.

    The Tuhoe money has presumably all been paid out for their settlement. In the report from last year the leaders are pleased that they have increased the value of assets and feel they have made a good start. The area is in four groups that are to have money for investment and are keen to get started and getting irritated at the pace. I think that the central leaders want to make sure it doesn’t get dissipated with schemes not going as well as envisaged.

    Some links
    Tuhoe Economic Development Plan 2016-2017
    http://www.ngaituhoe.iwi.nz/tuhoe-economic-development-plan

    Tuhoe – Meeting 4/3/2018
    http://www.ngaituhoe.iwi.nz/TUhoe-post-Treaty-settlement-woes-evident-in-wake-of-festival

    I have been looking at the map. You seem to have spent time looking at your economic situation and the train and road transport situation. Are you on a farm
    near Te Karaka in the north or Tiniroto in south? Do the present rail lines from the coast follow State Highway 2?
    Then there is a bit sticking out further down.
    Rail North Island
    Freight goes to Murupara
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_railway_lines_in_New_Zealand#/media/File:NorthIsland_rrMap_v02.svg
    (double click on map and it is nice and clear.)

  12. greywarshark 12
    18 March 2019 at 1:35 pm

    It is good to put up something positive at this time. I liked reading that little blue penguins are being helped.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/384974/nesting-boxes-may-boost-korora-numbers-in-hauraki-gulf

  13. greywarshark 13
    19 March 2019 at 8:00 pm

    Any comment on my questions about firebreak plantings?

    Research about effects of fire and logging.
    https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/losing-ground/
    Forest soils take a long time to recover from disturbances such as bushfires or logging. Soils lose nutrients when heated—fires can result in soil temperatures of more than 500°C—while logging alters the soil structure, exposing and compacting various layers. When researchers from the Australian National University collected 729 soil cores from 81 sites in the mountain ash forests of Victoria, they found it took soils up to 80 years to recover to their former nutrient density and quality following a bushfire, and 30 years following logging.

    Further info about forest plantings.
    https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/inferior-monocultures/
    The more species a subtropical forest has, the better at storing carbon it is.
    A study of forests in China, published in Proceedings of the Royal Society B, found forests that were more species-rich cycled carbon faster and stored more carbon in trees, roots, litter, deadwood and soil. For every additional tree species, the total carbon stock increased by 6.4 per cent—suggesting that planting a mixture of trees rather than a monoculture creates more effective carbon sinks.

  14. greywarshark 14
    20 March 2019 at 11:30 am

    What do we think of this garden robot?
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dwfhmX9Qjw

  15. greywarshark 15
    20 March 2019 at 11:53 am

    Am copying Robert G’s comment over here so archived.
    (From DPF does the right thing)

    Robert Guyton …
    19 March 2019 at 10:32 pm

    Hi Grey. Manuka’s a challenge. The blight that blights it was imported by farmers from Aussie to knock it back as it threatened (?) to reclaim hard-won pastures. The blackened branches, twigs and leaves we see now weren’t apparent pre-farmer. Manuka’s a beautiful tree, of course, but in fire-prone areas, a worry – it bursts into flames with great enthusiasm. Manuka honey doesn’t attract my support, for some reason, so I’ve nothing useful to say about that. Our native bees are busied-out by the honey bee. Manuka’s easy to grow and its seeds a cinch to collect; gather the pods before they open, keep them in a paper bag in a warm place till they open and release, then sow on the surface of seed raising mix. The trick is to include for associated fungi in your potting mix.

  16. greywarshark 16
    21 March 2019 at 7:01 pm

    This is a piece of background on the Far North, NI. Looking at environmental work etc.around Awanui – Lake Ohia – Karikari Peninsula.

    greywarshark 16.1
    19 March 2019 at 7:56 pm

    I think there is a certain disaffection amongst some Maori in Kaitaia. Argument
    over land at Taipa. I think also over concerns about small Lake Ohia. and environs. There is mention of dune lakes which are at risk.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11813334
    (Lake Waiporohita) – Like a large deep pristine rock pool when I saw if decades ago.

    Information on native orchids at Lake Ohia
    https://www.doc.govt.nz/Documents/science-and-technical/casn11.pdf

    Topomap
    https://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap/nz10441/Lake-Ohia/

    Lake ohia maps (archive info)
    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=lake+ohia++map&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjX3sKXzo3hAhVYWH0KHUnCB6EQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1440&bih=696

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