In Defense of Tony Veitch.

Written By: RedLogix - Date published: 10:00 pm, May 8th, 2016 - 174 comments
Categories: crime, families, gender, patriarchy, Social issues - Tags: domestic violence, tony veitch

I was asked by trp to respond to his post earlier today separately. I’ll start by re-quoting a comment from Anne:

I can vouch for the truth of that statement. That is not to degrade the ever present ‘intimate’ violence perpetrated by men against women and children. However women are just as capable of performing vicious and violent acts – often in a clandestine way – against other individuals. The victim or victims rarely get the justice and support they deserve because it doesn’t fall directly into the man rapes/sexually assaults woman category. In other words, their experiences are ‘minimised’ or in some cases not even believed. Yet the ramifications can be equally degrading and distressing.

It distresses me to see so much polarisation and ugliness in any thread of this nature. I believe that while men and women share a great deal of humanity in common, we also have complementary qualities that are important to us, not only in our intimate relationships, but to our functioning as an entire species, lending us a broader competitive advantage than any one gender might have on it’s own.

Exploiting these differences to drive a wedge between the two halves of humanity is sad, wrong and leads nowhere.

Certainly for men the gift of our greater physical strength comes the greater responsibility to use it safely. And in the world I grew up in that means never hitting a woman or child. The vast majority of men know this. And when a fellow man falls short of this ideal, I expect consequences, but I will reach out and lift him up again. I will not join in an ugly melee intent on kicking him when he’s down.

My view is that while gender clearly exacerbates and catalyses partner violence, it is not the root cause of it. Otherwise ALL perpetrators would be male. It is also prudent to avoid blame when trying to understand human behaviour; this always obscures causes. The fact that women have no monopoly on virtue; that violence is something both genders are guilty of, tells us that the root cause of this issue does not lie with men alone.

What we do know is that the need to dominate, whether physically, emotionally, sexually or economically highly predisposes an individual to violence. And when they are put into a situation where they feel out of control abuse is triggered … whether the violence takes physical, emotional, sexual or economic forms.

At this point the conversation usually narrows down to the ‘patriarchy’ and veers off into blaming men for the evils of the world. Yet the truth is that for the vast majority of men, the ‘patriarchy’ is of no advantage or privilege to them at all. Most will at some point look at their lives and find no trace of this’patriarchal dominance’ whatsoever. Most men feel nothing more than a life-long obligation to perform for the benefit of others.

[RL: Edit. I’ve realised there is a bad mistake here. I missed it when I was editing this post late last night.]
Why? Because ~~women~~ females always chose for their partners them most physically, sexually or economically dominant male they can select at the moment. This is basic observable biology. And in all of nature males violently compete for female attention and mating rights. Humans are driven by this instinct too, yet to a remarkable degree we have evolved societies that moderate and control it. It is when we feel threatened, stressed and “out of control” the social constraints fail, the need to dominate degenerates into jealousy or humiliation and then expresses as violence. And each gender tends to reach for the weapon closest to hand, men to their economic and physical strength, women to their emotional and sexual power.

There are two factors at work here; the underlying need to dominate and the need to feel in control. The first is pervasive and systemic, the latter is a situational trigger. Understanding both is necessary. Also we need to be honest about the all too frequent role alcohol plays in giving people the space to ‘lose control’.

In one short post I’m not going to pretend to solve this. Far better minds than mine will continue to unravel it; but what I do offer as a plea to the left is this: that while the visible symptoms of intimate partner violence are largely gender specific, the root causes are not. They run much deeper. And that while the feminist framework has been vital in defining and making the issue visible, it will become a hindrance to resolving it if we remain stuck in gender confrontation and covert forms of abuse.

You’ll notice I’ve said nothing about Tony Veitch. I think we should let him speak for himself and allow the space for catharsis as Incognito so very elegantly expressed it. While his words will not placate every judgmental urge, personally I will accept them at face value and wait to see what comes next.

174 comments on “In Defense of Tony Veitch. ”

Comments are now closed

Ad 1

8 May 2016 at 10:31 pm

I was very sorry to hear your story Red in the previous posting.
Thankfully I have no experience of what you speak of.

The problem of domestic violence isn’t all men against women.
But apparently it mostly is.

In the four years from 2009 to 2012, 76% of intimate partner violence-related deaths were perpetrated by men, 24% were perpetrated by women:

http://areyouok.org.nz/family-violence/statistics/

And New Zealand ain’t pretty on domestic violence:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5332717/NZ-worst-for-domestic-violence-UN-report

And it’s consistent world wide:

http://www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/ending-violence-against-women/facts-and-figures

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs239/en/
- Colonial Viper 1.1
  
  8 May 2016 at 10:46 pm
  
  And where in these statistics is the historical physical victimisation of RL by a woman captured?
  
  The fact of the matter is that women are proving increasingly capable of committing acts of violence, including lethal domestic violence, and violence by females against females (including homicide).
  
  This is a trend which has been observed by police for many years.
  
  Bottom line here is that a woman is just as capable of attacking a man, as a man is of attacking a woman. Just the form and the objective of the attack might sometimes differ.
- RedLogix 1.2
  
  8 May 2016 at 10:49 pm
  
  Two thoughts Ad.
  
  I finally fessed up not because I ever felt a victim of what happened. While it took me far too long to recognise and understand what happened, I never ever felt traumatised or enraged.
  
  I’ve made my peace with what happened and accepted my own role in not taking responsibility earlier. And I’ve never felt the need to persecute the unfortunate person who did it and we continue to associate when needed on a perfectly civil basis. Yet she struggles with her own demons and I feel nothing but sadness and loss for her. (And the roots of this go back to another generation, and a war. It is all a cycle.)
  
  Yes most of the intimate DV is perpetrated by males. Given our physical strength and much higher levels of testosterone this is exactly what you would expect. The genders are not the same.
  
  But my point is twofold; one is that there remains the other substantial 25% of physical violence that IS committed by women. Some of it mutual, some in self defense, some they initiate. And if you widen the definition to include all forms of abuse … including emotional, verbal, sexual and economic then I’d expect the figures to pretty much even out.
- Victoria Blake 1.3
  
  11 May 2016 at 9:15 am
  
  There is a bias inherent in using death as a proxy for violence.
mpledger 2

8 May 2016 at 11:44 pm

RL said
“Because women always chose for their partners them most physically, sexually or economically dominant male they can select at the moment.”

This is so not true.

And this stereotype just plays into all the worst aspects of macho culture.

Women choose love, kindness, humor, intelligence, shared interests … or at least the ones in my experience have.
- RedLogix 2.1
  
  8 May 2016 at 11:56 pm
  
  I agree, the story is more complex than I simplified it down to.
- Rosie 2.2
  
  9 May 2016 at 2:18 pm
  
  I found it to be an offensive statement. It was like a statement based in a palaeolithic reality, as if our social structure and order hasn’t evolved in thousands of years. As if women don’t have the intelligence to match their companion’s and need these dominant traits in men to make their lives complete.
  
  As if women don’t have the intelligence to choose someone based upon the traits you mention. As if we aren’t capable of finding our equal.
  
  The field of evolutionary psychology is a fascinating one, and I would agree that humans, in their most emotionally non evolved forms still carry traces of primal impulse and drive but I note that more often the topic is highjacked by those who wish to make excuses for male violence against women. Not that RL is doing that, but he is writing from an angle that I find troubling.
Matt 3

9 May 2016 at 12:38 am

I can’t believe you actually used the phrase “kicking [Veitch] while he’s down”, as if doing that idiomatically (and I don’t even believe that’s what’s happening) is as bad as actually physically doing it for real in real life. What the hell.
- RedLogix 3.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 1:50 am
  
  Actually in some ways I see the group mobbing going on here, the ganging up on Veitch as we’ve seen today as in many ways worse that the physical kicking he meted out.
  
  What he did in 2006 was bad, awful and he’s fully deserved all the consequences. No if’s no buts or quibbles.
  
  But at least Veitch has acknowledged what he did was wrong. What I see going on here, that while it does not inflict physical injury, is inflicting a social one that a lot of people here have enthusiastically joined in and feel fully justified about it. Some are clearly taking a vicarious pleasure in ensuring Veitch carries on playing whipping boy they can keep on hating regardless.
  
  And to my mind that’s pretty damned ugly.
  - mpledger 3.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 8:09 am
    
    So what do you want us to do …
    
    Stay silent so that the people who thinks Tony Veitch is a hero for keeping his female in her place never know other people think what Tony Veitch did was utterly appalling.
  - Jenny Kirk 3.1.2
    
    9 May 2016 at 8:47 am
    
    I didn’t see it as “group mobbing” RL.
    I saw it as a genuine contempt for what appeared to be an attempt by Veitch for public sympathy – it just didn’t ring true to me. So I don’t believe he has changed or has real remorse.
    
    But I do agree with you that women can be the perpetrator of abuse as well – I’ve seen this happen myself . And its just as worrying, and uncomfortable to witness and to try to understand how you can help someone to deal with it.
    
    You said : “There are two factors at work here; the underlying need to dominate and the need to feel in control. The first is pervasive and systemic, the latter is a situational trigger.” and then a bit later on you commented on your own personal situation ” (And the roots of this go back to another generation, and a war. It is all a cycle.)”
    
    And I think all of that is what I’ve been observing over the years – a generational cycle – maybe starting with what people experienced in really tough times like the Big Depression and WW2 and their reactions to that and how this has affected their relationships, and the future generations they are responsible for. So the need to be dominant takes precedence for that person and its effects go on and on thru the next generations. Unless you can see it happening and can talk it through (difficult with such a person) then it just keeps repeating itself – because others don’t know what to do. We don’t have “relationship” lessons at school or elsewhere really …. we just learn thru trial and error, and it sometimes takes a lifetime.
    - RedLogix 3.1.2.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 9:43 am
      
      Agreed, and very fair comment. I accept everyone is going to make their own calls on whether they think Veitch is genuine or not. Maybe Veitch will make a complete mug of me and turn out to be every bit as duplicitous as so many people here want him to be.
      
      But in the wider scheme I’d prefer to show some trust and benefit of the doubt until I’m proven wrong.
      
      We don’t have “relationship” lessons at school or elsewhere really …. we just learn thru trial and error, and it sometimes takes a lifetime.
      
      Exactly. I’m a slow learner and when I look back at my astounding ignorance in my teens and twenties I can only cringe in dismay.
      - Jenny Kirk 3.1.2.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 10:02 am
        
        Me, too – lots of backward cringing !!
  - miravox 3.1.3
    
    9 May 2016 at 4:31 pm
    
    Do you think Mr Veitch asked his victim if he could rehash his conviction in the press and throw her into the spotlight again so she can be vilified all over again?
    
    If he didn’t ask for permission, how does that pan out in your story of genuine catharsis, self-awareness and remorse – nevermind the lack of personal apology to her?
  - AR 3.1.4
    
    9 May 2016 at 9:56 pm
    
    Normally I would take the time to write a lengthy, considered response to an article like this. But I’ve just spent the last hour reading the comments and getting more and more upset.
    
    So instead my comment is simply to say that, as a victim of intimate-partner violence for more than three years, this thread has been awful to read and I no longer feel that The Standard is a safe place to come as a woman. Super devastated.
    - r0b 3.1.4.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 10:16 pm
      
      Very sorry AR. For what it is worth, the author of this post has shared your experience.
      http://thestandard.org.nz/tony-veitch-im-the-real-victim-here/#comment-1169979
      - weka 3.1.4.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 10:44 pm
        
        I’m not sure that that makes much different r0b. I mean, I appreciate Red sharing his personal experiences. It doesn’t change the politics of what he has done, nor the sheer offensiveness of his arguments. Nor the amount of hurt he is contributing.
        
        edit, To make that clear, in the comment you link to Red also says this,
        
        This uni-dimensional obsession that all men are evil and all women are angels (who never do any wrong and are always the victims) has led the issue down a cul-de-sac for decades.
        
        As others have pointed out, there is almost no real political space where women or feminists say that all men are evil and all women are angels. Nothing even close. It’s a strawman entirely of Red’s own making and he uses it to perpetuate damaging and misogynisitc memes. I can guarantee you that I have spent far far more time in feminist circles than he has and what he describes above is a complete misrepresentation of what is going on politically. That’s just the start. I chose not to engage with any of his arguments because I’ve seen them before and those conversations go nowhere. They are in no way acceptable because he is also a survivor of DV.
Fustercluck 4

9 May 2016 at 4:49 am

“Because women always chose for their partners them most physically, sexually or economically dominant male they can select at the moment.”

This is manifestly untrue, simplistic and smacks of victim blaming.

Nope. Not acceptable at all.
- Colonial Viper 4.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 8:59 am
  
  It generally matches what I see of relationship interactions between men and women although I would agree that exceptions or variations are not uncommon.
  
  We all know of relationships where there is a stronger personality matched against a weaker and more compliant personality. And its not that unusual to find that the alpha personality belongs to the woman and the beta personality belongs to the man.
  
  As for “economic dominance”, wanting a partner with a steady job is a major concern for many people – male and female. But females tend to prefer that the man earns a bit more than they do, while males tend to feel uncomfortable and insecure if the female earns significantly more than they do.
  
  Again, these are generalisations and exceptions are not uncommon.
- RedLogix 4.2
  
  9 May 2016 at 9:23 am
  
  I agree the premise is oversimplified, and intentionally so. But it doesn’t really change my underlying point, males evolved to be competitive and dominant because this advertised they had the best genes. This is the general pattern in evolutionary biology and it remains plainly observable in humans. As CV has already noted.
  
  But for humans with our extremely dependent babies, wild risk-taking males are a bad bet as long-term partners and child-raisers. So this complicates the story a lot.
Gangnam Style 5

9 May 2016 at 5:14 am

From the victims dad, http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79754791/i-wish-my-daughter-was-not-forever-connected-to-tony-veitch

“If this “apology” showed genuine remorse, it would have been given privately to our daughter. She has never received one. So who gains from this public “apology”? And actually is it an apology at all? Tony, to atone for your actions, you must stand in the complete truth. This was no one-off, as you still attempt to mislead the New Zealand public to believe. The other charges were never presented to the court, but they remain evidence of your systematic abusive pattern. In those files lies a very inconvenient truth for you.”

& it turns out Veitch is to present some new web show or some such for the Herald, so you know, fuck Tony Veitch & fuck the Herald.
One Anonymous Bloke 6

9 May 2016 at 5:58 am

women always chose for their partners them[sic] most physically, sexually or economically dominant male they can select at the moment.

Did you mean “…choose…can…”, or “…chose…could…”

Either way it’s the most dreadful rubbish, and certainly no mere ‘simplification’.

Steve Dunne’s response says it all.
- RedLogix 6.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 9:26 am
  
  See above, I agree it is a simplification, but for the purpose of the argument the underlying truth holds. The point is that the human need for dominance did not arise in a vacuum, and cannot be properly understood unless you ask why?
  
  Unless you want to argue for the null case?
  - Sabine 6.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 9:53 am
    
    so are you saying that Man always choose the most humble, sexually attractive and most submissive women, so that they – men – can dominate unhindered?
    - RedLogix 6.1.1.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 10:28 am
      
      Generally it is women who do the ‘selecting’ and men who do the ‘committing’. Another generalisation but a defendable one.
      
      And keep in mind we are talking about instinct here; these are not conscious, logical choices. And of all human endeavours, mating remains the one most subject to it. For both genders.
      
      In 808 words there are going to be shortcuts and shortcomings in my premises; but the argument does stand as a whole. That human behaviour does not arise in a vacuum and understanding the whole context is vital.
      - Sabine 6.1.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 10:45 am
        
        i would agree with you that at some stage it was very important that women choose a man who was a. able bodied, and b. strong enough to provide, considering that for many women working outside the house and home farm/business was not an option or if they did due to lack of husband / provider they would live in abject poverty.
        Again, these rules were not women made but rather are men made, read the bible all those things about women / children being the property of man and chattel and so forth, and yes, the bible pretty much was the precedent for our current laws. And not forget that the last straws of Matriachy were burned on the stakes between 1400 – 1700.
        
        Consider as well that literally until about 40 years ago, a pregnant women out of wedlock was literally shamed into a. giving birth in secret and giving up the child, or leave town to go elsewhere and make a living any which way they could.
        Now this is not feminist nonsense, this is documented history.
        
        However in our times, and again i am only speaking of me and my experiences, i don’t think I or those of my friends went for the bloke that had a. the most money – considering that in some / many cases we out earned our previous/current partners, b. handsome – beauty is in the eye of beholder, c. strong – again this is a definition best left to those that look for strong.
        We usually go for something like, sexual compatibility, funny, likes the same stuff, shared interests, shared outlook of the future etc etc.
        
        I think we should not blame evolution for what is essentially a man made society. And yes, it is still very much a man made society, heck men were afraid of giving the vote to women only a hundred odd years ago, women could not get a bank account/cheque account without the signature of their husbands until well into the 1970’s, and could not manage to survive on their own as a widow or single mother which is why eventually the DPB and the Widowers benefits were instated in NZ. Nor could they rent a flat or buy a car without dear hubby on their side. I am sure some of our female posters are old enough to speak of the good old times that were the 40/50/60/70’s in NZ and how easy it was being a women without a man on her side 🙂
        
        There was a reason why women had to look for a provider. It was due to them not being able and being permitted to provide without a husband for themselves and their children whithout being labelled a loose women, a harlot, or a hussy. It had nothing to do with evolution.
        
        Rosie 6.1.1.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 2:21 pm
        
        +1 Sabine
        
        miravox 6.1.1.1.1.2
        
        9 May 2016 at 4:36 pm
        
        Plus another Sabine
Psycho Milt 7

9 May 2016 at 7:44 am

…when a fellow man falls short of this ideal, I expect consequences, but I will reach out and lift him up again. I will not join in an ugly melee intent on kicking him when he’s down.

I wouldn’t either, if the guy displayed even the slightest self-awareness of having done something wrong. However, say for example he were instead to pay his victim to pretend she fell down the stairs, frame any apology or statement he made about it to emphasise how much he had suffered, regain his position as a well-paid media figure appealing to a demographic not noted for its staunch opposition to using violence, and make the occasional joke about someone getting a fist in the face, I’d be willing to buy a ticket to join an ugly melee intent on kicking him when he’s (actually anything but) down.
- b waghorn 7.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 7:53 am
  
  “I’d be willing to buy a ticket to join an ugly melee intent on kicking him when he’s (actually anything but) down.”
  
  That’s the way ,because as we all know violence solves every thing.
  - Colonial Viper 7.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 8:33 am
    
    And ironically the same person talks about having “even the slightest self-awareness”. Like he is so wise themselves they can calmly pass judgement on the life of another person from a few hundred words in an MSM rag.
  - Psycho Milt 7.1.2
    
    9 May 2016 at 10:08 am
    
    Metaphor tends to escape the simple-minded. For the record, neither RedLogix (unless I’ve wildly misread his post) nor I was referring to literally kicking people. Along similar lines, when I’m tempted to refer to other commenters as “thick as two short planks” I’m not expressing the view that they are literally 5cm thick.
    - b waghorn 7.1.2.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 11:54 am
      
      Cyber attacks are a form of violence. that’s why its called bullying
      - Psycho Milt 7.1.2.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 1:54 pm
        
        Them never love poor Tony…
        
        b waghorn 7.1.2.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 4:09 pm
        
        That is far to vague for this here short plank
    - weka 7.1.2.2
      
      9 May 2016 at 2:06 pm
      
      There’s pretty much no conversation about the politics of domestic violence where it’s ok to use violence analogies.
Puckish Rogue 8

9 May 2016 at 8:18 am

Hey RL for what its worth, you’re decent, straight up guy and sharing your story is a brave move.

Respect.
- Bob 8.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 5:29 pm
  
  +1
mpledger 9

9 May 2016 at 9:03 am

It seems extremely strange for the NZ Herald to publish such things on/around Mother’s Day. It seems so completely clueless or were they made to bring it forward in order to divert from other news.
Tiger Mountain 10

9 May 2016 at 9:08 am

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79754791/i-wish-my-daughter-was-not-forever-connected-to-tony-veitch

do yourself a favour RedLogix, uncouple your concerns from Mr Veitch, Kristin’s dad makes some cogent points in the stuff piece that are enough for me to be confident that Tony Veitch has a long way to go in sorting his head out

p.s. I am all in favour of second chances and redemption, and even supported Mr Hooten in a couple of comments when he talked about his problems with the sauce, but people deserve to be called when they lie by omission as Veitch has done and grandstand with a mothers day release
RedLogix 11

9 May 2016 at 9:33 am

I’m very pleased to read something from Kristen’s side of the story. Clearly there remains considerable healing to be done.
Bill 12

9 May 2016 at 9:46 am

So maybe I’ll settle for just saying this – people are a bit fucked up and many people do shit to others.

I wouldn’t slate that back to ‘human nature’ as you appear to do in a post that makes far too many grand, and in my view, wrong headed generalisations around supposed ‘instinct’ and the ‘natural’ behaviours or motivations that produces.

People are people and unfortunately, we have built, or have allowed the building and setting in place of social environments that are fairly toxic. Those environments feed on one another and reinforce one another. They also speak to aspects of our psychological make up and reinforce, discourage or even initiate or give rise to traits and behaviours – none of which are immutable and all of which must always seek expression by interacting with other environmental factors.

We live in an environment (in environments) that allow, condone and even reward violences. We can either sanction those who are violent in unacceptable ways, or we can look to our environments (social, political, economic), accept that they’re a bit fucked up, and use our general behaviours over time (at a population level) as a bell weather to tell us we have achieved a healthy reconfiguration of our living spaces or not.

edit – On Tony Veitch. What he did was fucking ugly. And from reading his own words, Tony Veitch is still fucking ugly.
- RedLogix 12.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 10:03 am
  
  people are a bit fucked up and many people do shit to others.
  
  Yet the remarkable, and often overlooked fact is that the vast majority of people are fundamentally good almost all of the time. Yet it is in the nature of destruction that one brief instant can undo the constructive work of a lifetime or more. The scales are very unevenly weighted.
  
  Otherwise yes, understanding the roots causes here requires we set aside blame, put down vengefulness and take a hard look ourselves. My argument is that like all human behaviour violence is an intersection between instinct, experience and social constraints.
  
  And I totally agree that given how economically violent our world has become, it’s rather surprising how most people don’t react.
  - Bill 12.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 10:17 am
    
    …it’s rather surprising how most people don’t react.
    
    From verbal argument to physical and psychological assault … to self medicating, addicted, compulsive or self loathing coping mechanisms…depression, wrecklessness, control freakery…There’s a list of common destructive reactions as long as my arm Red.
    - RedLogix 12.1.1.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 10:20 am
      
      I should have said “react more overtly”. But yes absolutely.
Danyl Mclauchlan 13

9 May 2016 at 9:50 am

Yet the truth is that for the vast majority of men, the ‘patriarchy’ is of no advantage or privilege to them at all

I’m glad we’ve settled that. Now if we can all agree that wealth confers no advantage or privilege over poverty, the whole of the left can just pack up and go home.
- RedLogix 13.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 10:08 am
  
  The vast majority of ordinary men are not wealthy at all, and spend their lives in service of their family whom they love and treasure deeply.
  - TTD 13.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 11:04 am
    
    Whoosh
  - Danyl Mclauchlan 13.1.2
    
    9 May 2016 at 12:13 pm
    
    The vast majority of ordinary men are not wealthy at all, and spend their lives in service of their family whom they love and treasure deeply.
    
    Many men have poor eyesight and rely on scent to find the nectar they depend on as their primary food source.
    - RedLogix 13.1.2.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 3:05 pm
      
      Often what you may see as my power and privilege, I may perceive as my duty or responsibility. It complicates these discussions a lot.
    - Colonial Viper 13.1.2.2
      
      9 May 2016 at 3:19 pm
      
      While the Queen sits in the hive all day while all the goodies are brought home to her by the male drones.
Rebecca 14

9 May 2016 at 10:01 am

I would seriously ask all those at the Standard to consider removing this post and apologising, particularly given the public comment from the victim’s family today (but also because of pretty much all of the content, being addressed by commenters above). It really does damage the credibility of this site. Publishing this was a mistake, and it should be rectified.
- Jenny Kirk 14.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 10:08 am
  
  I think this has been a worthwhile discussion, Rebecca. Some people have become upset by it, but generally speaking those who are genuinely concerned about the domestic violence in our society – and there is heaps of it going on all the time – adult to child, child to child, adult to adult – need to be allowed to voice their opinions, listen to others and come to some personal conclusions. This is a major issue in our society and we cannot keep ignoring it.
- RedLogix 14.2
  
  9 May 2016 at 10:13 am
  
  As noted at the beginning I only put this post up because another author asked me to.
- weka 14.3
  
  9 May 2016 at 10:55 am
  
  I would seriously ask all those at the Standard to consider removing this post and apologising, particularly given the public comment from the victim’s family today (but also because of pretty much all of the content, being addressed by commenters above). It really does damage the credibility of this site. Publishing this was a mistake, and it should be rectified.
  
  Thanks Rebecca, that’s pretty much how I feel as well.
  
  One of the problems here is that The Standard is run by a loose collective of people with no editorial control by any of them. I guess technically one of the other authors could remove this post, or delete the contents and replace them with an apology (which would leave the comments in place). But afaik none of them would consider they have the authority to do so. I also doubt that they would support the view that removing it is more important than allowing the conversation to run.
  
  Which brings up a second problem. Most of the authors i.e. the people who have login access, are men. That’s the dominant culture here and while some of those men are supportive of feminism and work against misogyny, there is still an underlying culture that I would name as prioritising men’s values over women’s. This is why the largest left wing blog in NZ has no regular feminist authors, and in fact doesn’t have any at all at the moment writing about women-focussed issues.
  
  This has been discussed at times, how to encourage feminists to write here, but feminists know damn well why they don’t and until the men who are largely controlling the site are willing to listen to us, and to share power, the situation won’t change.
  
  From my perspective, removing this post would be the lowest kind of committment to being an inclusive site instead of yet another left wing space that men deem to allow others into when it suits. It does present them with quite a major dilemma, because the whole ethos of the site is built around robust debate and allowing people to say what they will so long as others can counter it. But in this case, the public interest is easily on the side of sacrificing that principle in favour of gender equity.
  
  I am heartened and grateful that a number of men have rebutted the content of the post, because too often this has been left up to women here and most of us have had enough (those that are even still here). This includes left wing men coming from offsite. Thank-you for doing the right thing and sharing the load. I also think that some of those comments are more likely to be heard by the author as opposed to if feminists were to address the content. In other words, the problems with this post, the content and its existence on The Standard are an issue that men need to deal with.
  - RedLogix 14.3.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 11:06 am
    
    . In other words, the problems with this post, the content and its existence on The Standard are an issue that men need to deal with.
    
    And yet when I explore WHY it is that so many men remain on the sidelines, why it is that decades of campaigning has seen little change, why so many men remain silent or covertly hostile on this topic … you demand I shut up.
    
    Interesting.
    - One Anonymous Bloke 14.3.1.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 11:13 am
      
      explore
      
      Concocting self-serving narratives is not exploration.
      - RedLogix 14.3.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:33 am
        
        You are at your weakest when you revert to sneering, shaming and controlling comments like that.
        
        It is clear you disagree; try adding to the conversation rather than diminishing it. That is what The Standard is for.
        
        One Anonymous Bloke 14.3.1.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:41 am
        
        As Weka put it, several people have already rebutted your narrative. Your excuse that you’re “exploring” doesn’t stand up. Perhaps if you engage with what they’re saying rather than accusing them of trying to censor you, I won’t need to comment again.
    - weka 14.3.1.2
      
      9 May 2016 at 11:14 am
      
      I haven’t told you to shut up. I’m saying that The Standard shouldn’t be publishing MRA-like viewpoints because it has a responsibility as a left wing blog. You can say and believe what you like Red.
      - BM 14.3.1.2.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:19 am
        
        Dangerous stuff telling authors what to write.
        
        Don’t be surprised if you cop a ban.
        
        [RL: No she won’t.]
  - Rebecca 14.3.2
    
    9 May 2016 at 11:49 am
    
    Thanks Weka, appreciate your comments. I guess I still feel, especially in light of the comments from Steve Dunne today, that ahead of the respect for internal Standards processes I am concerned that Veitch apologists take heart from the existence of things like this post, and that whether we like it or not, some people will take the fact of this post being up as some kind of left endorsement for Veitch and his most recent comments, I think it would be much better for the world if it was just not there.
    - weka 14.3.2.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 12:02 pm
      
      I completely agree Rebecca.
      - Rosie 14.3.2.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 2:31 pm
        
        Thank you for the discussion Rebecca and weka. As mentioned further up the thread, in response to mpledger at 2.2, (and others) I feel quite troubled by the content of this post.
        
        weka 14.3.2.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 3:01 pm
        
        Thanks Rosie, I’d missed that. I’m trying really hard to not get into that aspect because I find the underlying beliefs disturbing, unsupported by fact and basically to be the same arguments used by people who hate women. It’s unsupportable to have such in a post on Ts. I don’t want to argue against them under this post because imo they have no legitimacy in left wing debate.
        
        Rosie …
        
        9 May 2016 at 3:19 pm
        
        “I’m trying really hard to not get into that aspect because I find the underlying beliefs disturbing, unsupported by fact and basically to be the same arguments used by people who hate women.”
        
        Are you referring to what I mentioned about the field of evolutionary psychology? (Or biology to use RL’s terms)
        
        If so, I find that it’s a weak place to stand on any discussion on human behaviour at it’s most harmless but dangerous at it’s worst, such as when referenced by that pro rape group return of the kings or whatever they call themselves.
        Fwiw,I got the impression that psychology tutors I had were a bit dismissive of the field. Faddish.
        
        weka …
        
        9 May 2016 at 3:30 pm
        
        Not your comments, but the MRA-like stuff (I’d be happy to have the conversation with you at another time and place). Yes it has its proponents in some areas of science and social science (don’t know how much damage is being done there), but I’m more focussed on the damage that gets done in the political sphere when men can make such arguments on the left. The left still being a place where women can be assaulted by left wing men and that not be dealt with because of the culture. So yeah, dangerous in many ways.
        
        Rosie …
        
        9 May 2016 at 4:17 pm
        
        Ok. Thanks for the clarification.
        
        I’m out of time. Probably shouldn’t have gotten into commenting when I’m rushing and tired – but this post had an upsetting and off putting effect for many reasons partly because of this “The left still being a place where women can be assaulted by left wing men and that not be dealt with because of the culture.” (don’t start me on all CV’s patronising anti women, put down women snipes either, it’s all just part of the bigger picture)
        
        There is so much to say but others have had the time to put it more succinctly than I can at the moment.
        
        Big ups to the two male bloggers who took the time to comment on this post. It’s uplifting to read. And to the supportive Men of The Standard. Your solidarity is hugely appreciated.
        
        weka …
        
        9 May 2016 at 5:40 pm
        
        I always appreciate your words Rosie!
    - adam 14.3.2.2
      
      9 May 2016 at 12:07 pm
      
      Thanks Weka and Rebecca.
      
      I was getting sick reading this post till I read your comments.
      
      The only thing this post shows is that there is still a very long way to go to for men to address their attitudes towards women.
      
      Patriarch is still firmly in place, and being left wing does not mean you are automatically lest sexist and/or not a misogynist.
      
      “One cannot be too extreme in dealing with social ills; the extreme thing is generally the true thing.” — Emma Goldman
      
      “Revolution is the festival of the oppressed.” — Germaine Greer
      - weka 14.3.2.2.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 12:14 pm
        
        Heh, hadn’t seen that Greer quote before.
      - Colonial Viper 14.3.2.2.2
        
        9 May 2016 at 12:35 pm
        
        The only thing this post shows is that there is still a very long way to go to for men to address their attitudes towards women.
        
        That may be, but women only have limited valid contributions to that discussion, exactly like men have only limited valid contributions to the attitudes that women should hold.
    - Bob 14.3.2.3
      
      10 May 2016 at 9:26 am
      
      “especially in light of the comments from Steve Dunne today”
      Rebecca, I completely understand your position, but Steve Dunne’s position contridicts Tony Veitch’s. Your position in fact back’s up the point that the male is always the perpetrator and should not have their side of the story heard.
      I think it takes immense strength for someone like RL to come out and tell his story, especially in a world where he would rightly be vilified if he were to retaliate, and yet people like yourself don’t even want him to tell his story (which may or may not be similar to that of Tony Veitch’s).
      What you are asking, is for all male victims of spousal abuse to stay quiet, don’t retaliate and ‘man up’, that is just plain wrong.
  - miravox 14.3.3
    
    9 May 2016 at 4:40 pm
    
    Thanks for the succinct explanation weka.
    
    And extra thanks for this bit:
    
    I am heartened and grateful that a number of men have rebutted the content of the post, because too often this has been left up to women here and most of us have had enough (those that are even still here). This includes left wing men coming from offsite. Thank-you for doing the right thing and sharing the load.
  - Victoria Blake 14.3.4
    
    11 May 2016 at 9:29 am
    
    I don’t see that we should be concerned by the alleged lack of feminist input to this site.
    
    The left remained electorally saleable as long as it was humanist. A feminist critique added to that, but to excess it became devisive (indeed literally chauvenistic) and so not a vote winner.
- Magisterium 14.4
  
  9 May 2016 at 3:30 pm
  
  [removed]
  [lprent: You were banned here. Added another week. ]
Sirenia 15

9 May 2016 at 10:28 am

This post reinforces the patriarchy and rape culture. It demeans The Standard as an inclusive forum for the left.
- Mrs Brillo 15.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 1:27 pm
  
  I agree with you, Sirenia. This made sorry reading.
  
  Veitch attacked his partner not once, but several times over the course of three years. More than once it involved knocking or throwing her down then kicking her.
  
  If you’ve done wrong, the moral thing to do is own your actions, make amends to those who suffered from your actions, then do some serious work to get your messed-up head or personality straightened out.
  
  Veitch appears to have done his damnedest to avoid all three. Aided and abetted by people who should be ashamed of themselves.
  
  And the dearth of women posting on this forum might tell us all something about how seriously to take its assumption of “inclusivity”. Women apparently do not see it as a safe place, and postings like RL’s are part of the reason.
  - weka 15.1.1
    
    11 May 2016 at 10:56 am
    
    +1 to you both.
John Palethorpe 16

9 May 2016 at 10:29 am

This is a poor bit of writing with some terrible biological essentialism as both argument and defence.

You’re spot on about performative gender, but that’s indicative of an embedded issue of masculinity, and feminine and other gender identities position as lesser than masculinity. It’s not something inherent. It can change, it can be changed.

As for men being harmed by patriarchy, you’re damn right. The way which masculine identity is used to check those transgressing imagined gender boundaries and behaviour hurts men, the expectation to ‘be a man’ and ‘man up’ hurts men – and yet those men still all benefit from patriarchy.

And that ‘ugly melee intent on kicking him when he’s down’ is either the worst case of not thinking about the words you use to discuss an issue or the most delicately subtle dark comedy I have ever seen.

There’s room for a discussion on partner violence, because some women are violent and abusive to men. But overwhelmingly majority of it is traffic in the opposite direction, that’s why the body count for domestic abuse is higher for women than for men.

But the argument made here doesn’t even get anywhere near that issue. Instead it chucks some intellectually barren arguments together, nearly gets to the point about performativity but then veers off into biology and essentialism – which has traditionally been an environment for some really, really awful stuff from the left and right.
- RedLogix 16.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 10:39 am
  
  Of course the argument is simplified; but an intelligent reader should be capable of filling in the gaps. It’s a topic which has filled libraries, attacking me for what I left out in 808 words is cheap and lazy. Try adding something rather than taking away.
  
  And are you claiming that biology has nothing to do with it? That will come as a surprise to a lot of people.
  - John Palethorpe 16.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 10:41 am
    
    I have, here.
    
    https://in-the-back-of-the.net/2016/05/08/tony-veitch-toxicity/
    - RedLogix 16.1.1.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 11:00 am
      
      I’m short on time now but I’ll reply briefly here. And apologies for not reading all of your post. However in one excerpt you write:
      
      A ‘hideous relationship’. Yes, it was hideous. Because Veitch kicked Dunne-Powell repeatedly while she was on the floor. Then first refused and then eventually took her to hospital. Then he went off to work. She was temporarily put in a wheelchair by the attack and has spent time since working with domestic violence groups. And she’s the victim.
      
      Which is all true. Nowhere have I or anyone else attempted to minimise or divert from this.
      
      But also note how you have carefully erased the other reality going on here; that prior to this attack it was clearly a ‘toxic relationship’. Something both of them were caught up in and neither had the tools to either fix or end.
      
      By pretending that all women are always perfect angels who are never abusive in their own way, we obscure the fact this was likely a mutually dysfunctional relationship of one form or another. Of course none of that justifies or excuses Veitch’s attack in the slightest, but how much better for both of them if they had both been able to recognise and understand what was going on and either seek help or end it long before she finished up in hospital.
      
      How much better if they had both understood that what was happening was NOT normal, that what they were both experiencing as a “hideous relationship” was a huge red-flag that something was badly wrong. For both of them.
      
      Just constraining the narrative to Veitch’s actions alone, obscures the context and prevents us from understanding the causes.
      - John Palethorpe 16.1.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:09 am
        
        So I read all of your post, comment on it and you take me to task for not reading the parts that you didn’t write.
        
        You don’t read all of my post and then take me to task for something I left out, which happens to be the precise argument Veitch used to excuse what he did.
        
        I’m terribly sorry that I don’t view his perception of why what he did wasn’t that bad as worthy of serious discussion.
        
        You’ve done an awful lot of defensive work, based around the writing being incomplete. Perhaps you should expand it, really put the time and effort your argument obviously needs, so that we don’t find you so confronting or, y’know, wrong.
      - McFlock 16.1.1.1.2
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:13 am
        
        KDP was in a toxic relationship and didn’t leave it before she ended up with a broken back.
        TV was in a toxic relationship and didn’t leave it before he broke his partner’s back.
        
        The first was not picking that something would be done to her.
        The second was something that he chose to do, even if he was under stress, tired, whatever. Even if it was an automatic impulse, his decision to not call an ambulance showed that he still had more consideration for his career (even when tired and stressed) than he did for his partner.
        
        There’s your context.
        
        arkie 16.1.1.1.2.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:21 am
        
        Boom. Exactly.
        
        Psycho Milt 16.1.1.1.2.2
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:22 am
        
        Even if it was an automatic impulse, his desicion to not call an ambulance showed that he still had more consideration for his career (even when tired and stressed) than he did for his partner.
        
        Yeah. He keeps talking about “lashing out” in “frustration” to the media, but his behaviour following the attack talks pretty eloquently about cold-blooded deliberation.
- Alicia G 16.2
  
  9 May 2016 at 10:47 am
  
  And right on cue, here’s Man Booker Prize winner John Palethorpe come to critique the writing of someone with a differing opinion.
  
  The lack of oxygen in your Twitter bubble today must be asphyxiating.
SueB 17

9 May 2016 at 10:32 am

A piece that the author acknowledges is over simplified has what value in sparking valid debate?
It begins by quoting a piece about violence by women and then beyond bemoaning the public backlash to Veitch’s latest attempt at self promotion. the entire piece seems to be based on the premise that women are not doing enough to stop male violence.
The author then deflects criticism of the publishing of this thinly veiled attack on victims by claiming he only put the post up because someone else asked him to.
It would appear in RedLogix’s world responsibility always rests with others. Underlying all Veitch’s public pleas has been the same “logic”.
- RedLogix 17.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 10:45 am
  
  Ah no. I’m always surprised at what people read into things. Try focussing on what I actually write than what you think I have. It will help a lot.
  
  For instance:
  
  the entire piece seems to be based on the premise that women are not doing enough to stop male violence.
  
  Actually after three decades or more of women fighting in this issue that is plainly not true, it is men who largely remain on the sidelines. But why?
  
  Most men do not want to hurt their partners or family. Most perpetrators (not all I accept) are genuinely appalled and sorry in the immediate aftermath. Yet like addicts they keep falling back into the cycle.
  
  And as a man I’m tired of reading the same shameful stats over and over. So where is the barrier to change here? Why is it so hard to get men to act? I’m trying to explore that question as a man. Sorry if you find that confronting.
  - SueB 17.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 11:08 am
    
    Hardly confronting, condescending definitely, lacking in anything more than a self important diatribe with zero substance.
    
    “Most men do not want to hurt their partners or family. Most perpetrators (not all I accept) are genuinely appalled and sorry in the immediate aftermath. Yet like addicts they keep falling back into the cycle”
    
    Most men are violent to family even though they do not want to be and are appalled by their actions? So now it is an impulse control issue? Another over simplification that intelligent readers must fill in the glaringly huge gaps as you cannot/will not?
    
    Do you see this lack of personal responsibility as perhaps a reason why your “logic” is actually symbolic of the reasoning many (Veitch is a good example) use to attempt to apportion a degree of blame to the recipient of violence?
    - RedLogix 17.1.1.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 11:19 am
      
      Funny how when it comes to issues which are important to women, it is all about the patriarchy and how the system disadvantages them.
      
      Yet when it comes to domestic violence it is ALL about men and ONLY men taking personal responsibility.
      
      Of course if you want to remain stuck in the blame game I cannot think of anything constructive to add.
      
      In fact I’ve run out of time at the moment and need to end my responses here.
      - Sabine 17.1.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:49 am
        
        now that is just a foolish comment.
        
        many here have agreed with you that women are able to be just as violent as men.
        it is however statistically proven that most of the violence meted out is by men against women and children.
        
        Now this might be due to men not speaking up, or maybe it is due to man not ending up in hospitals or morgues in the same number as women do.
        
        But then it isPatriachy who tells boys not to cry, it is Patriachy who tells boys to suck it up and be manly about it, and it is also Patriachy who tells the little girl that was hit by a little boy that the ‘boy must like you if he hits you” and that the little boy just simply does not know how to show his love, so hitting is what he did.
        
        Patriarchy harms men as women, and frankly that has been pointed out by feminists for what seems to be ever. But never let facts get in your way.
        
        It is a fact that Tony Veitch has yet to state unequivocally that he harmed and injured his partner, HE DID IT, not the frustration he may have felt that day because his dinner was served less then the appropriate temperature, or what ever other reason he wants to make up for. He was lucky he did not permanently cause her to live in a wheelchair, HE was lucky he did not accidentally kill her, He was lucky that she has kept quiet ever since. Until and unless he admits to himself that he fucked up he will only ever write half excuses for what he did. And chances are that he will fuck up again.
        
        Nothing that she did should have caused him physically harm her until he broke her back, nothing you did should have given reason to your abuser to do what she did to you, and nothing that I wore as an eleven year old should have caused my rape by my abuser. They are the ones at fault. Full stop here. They took the decision to hurt the other because they could. Not because they were forced too, or because society or evolution or biology or stuff .
        
        Don’t find excuses for Tony Veitch, he is quite capable of finding them himself. Because as of today, he still has not accepted the fact that he was a very lucky man. She did not end up permanently disabled or dead, and that is why he got away, that and lot’s of money and being a prominent NZ’ler. And according to her father, he never even found the courage to say ” i am sorry to have caused to pain, injury and lifelong issues of anxiety, stress and what nots’. That is not a man who is searching for truth, this is a man who is looking for public validation, and obviously he will get it. Patriarchy is alive and well in NZ, and he is part of it.
      - SueB 17.1.1.1.2
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:54 am
        
        Funny how you create a fictional narrative and ignore any point raised about your actual words isn’t it?
        
        It would be very interesting to see you add something constructive in response to what is said rather than this dismissive deflection.
        
        Violence is never excusable, not when the perpetrator is male, female or a celebrity. Most people certainly blame the offender, most expect solutions to come about by discussing how we stop offenders being violent as opposed to oft used and never successful claim that the victim must alter their behavior to suit the offender.
        
        I find you, as an individual, one of the most defensive and condescending examples of pseudo intellectual I have read in a long time. It has nothing to do with your gender, just your words.
        
        Colonial Viper 17.1.1.1.2.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 12:29 pm
        
        Violence is never excusable?
        
        Give me a break. What parallel universe do you live in. Even in law, violence between individuals is sometimes excusable. And governments often find violence highly excusable.
        
        Get off your moralistic high horse and get back to the real world.
        
        And your talk about pseudo-intellectuals is so ironic it is laughable.
        
        SueB …
        
        9 May 2016 at 12:41 pm
        
        What a seriously stupid pile of nonsense.
        
        Violence is excusable because in some undisclosed laws you claim it is? And of course the old chestnut “Government does it” makes domestic violence totally palatable doesn’t it?
        
        If more people got a few morals then fewer would suffer violence that people like you attempt to excuse. The real world for far too many is not comfortably sitting behind a screen thumping your chest and trying to act tough, it is simply surviving. Perhaps it is you who needs to see how that reality works for actual victims.
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        9 May 2016 at 12:51 pm
        
        Pffft. The world is full of victims and full of people who consider themselves victims. It has been since antiquity.
        
        But your comment that violence is never excusable is demonstrably false both in law and in the day to day actions of governments and their authorities.
        
        As for “trying to act tough.” LOL to you on your moralistic high horse.
      - Rosemary McDonald 17.1.1.1.3
        
        9 May 2016 at 12:22 pm
        
        “Yet when it comes to domestic violence it is ALL about men and ONLY men taking personal responsibility.”
        
        Read one way…that statement/accusation is so close to “she asked for it” that you may well be swimming in lava.
        
        Read the way I’m hoping you mean it…’is that women reject the idea that women are capable of violence towards men’…not true, and please cite where on this, or the other TV thread, that that has been stated.
        
        Poor use of CAPITALS too…kinda makes me think that you ACTUALLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
        
        Which is a bit of a worry.
trendy leftie 18

9 May 2016 at 10:49 am

This reminds me of the “Labour does it too” argument that National run, only now it is “women do it too”.
arkie 19

9 May 2016 at 11:14 am

This feels like a gendered variant of “Labour did it too”
- maui 19.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 11:32 am
  
  Hah I was thinking along those lines too.
maui 20

9 May 2016 at 11:38 am

This post is getting hard to look at it to be honest. Mysoginistic writings from someone who doesn’t think they’re mysoginistic on an often progressive blog. Cringeworthy.
- One Anonymous Bloke 20.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 1:54 pm
  
  +1
  - seeker 20.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 3:26 pm
    
    +1 too
TeWhareWhero 21

9 May 2016 at 11:51 am

http://tewharewhero.blogspot.co.nz/2015/10/an-open-letter-to-tony-veitch.html

The above was my response to Veitch’s previous public ‘mea-culpa-but-not-really’. And I remain of the same opinion.
McFlock 22

9 May 2016 at 12:29 pm

The thing that perplexes me a bit is how this is a defense of Tony Veitch.

In TRP’s initial post about Veitch’s latest failed attempt to persuade people he’s learned to control himself, as far as I could see in the post and the discussion it was all about Veitch still failing to fully take responsibility for his actions. Nobody was discussing whether only men were abusers or whatever until RL put it into the debate.

And what if there were systemic issues at play when TV decided to beat his partner? It’s not like he was stealing to feed his kids, or had never encountered the idea that there was another way of having a relationship. We can learn from him and any others about how to do a campaign to stop privileged people treating their partners/family as property, but that doesn’t mean he’s not responsible for his actions. He should have known better.

As for why intimate partner violence is still happening, I reckon we’re still at the stage where we have to acknowledge the extent of the problem (not just poor or brown people) and who does it (anyone). You have to know the extent of a problem before you can solve it.
- weka 22.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 12:40 pm
  
  “Nobody was discussing whether only men were abusers or whatever until RL put it into the debate.”
  
  That’s right. The context here is RL’s MRA-like views. The idea that only men abuse is in his head, not anyone elses. His arguments on this topic (not just in the past few days) are full of these strawmen, which makes it tedious to address, because before you can even get to the issue of TV you have to pull out all the underlying misogyny, name it and deal with that first.
- One Anonymous Bloke 22.2
  
  9 May 2016 at 8:31 pm
  
  You have to know the extent of a problem before you can solve it.
  
  Usually you only find out the extent of a problem once you start trying to solve it. Meanwhile, Women’s Refuge can give you a pretty good idea, and every time they do, who’s listening?
Sarah Martin 23

9 May 2016 at 12:29 pm

This post is disturbingly and dangerously ignorant. Your very misinformed opinion that “women always chose for their partners them [sic] most physically, sexually or economically dominant male they can select at the moment” is tantamount to saying that a woman “asks for it” when that physically dominant partner asserts his dominance and breaks her back. Victim-blaming perpetuates and justifies violence and is unacceptable in any forum.

There is breathtaking absence of intellectual rigour or logic in your argument. You begin by saying that violence is a non-gendered issue, because women are violent too (and yet, indisputably, violence is overwhelmingly committed by men) and then go on to say that male violence is an inescapable male condition: “And in all of nature males violently compete for female attention and mating rights. As a women and a mother of sons I find this outdated gender reductionism completely unacceptable.

As to whether not all men benefit from the patriarchy – of course there are multiple social, economic and political structures that oppress men as much as women – however men of all classes, ethnicities and religions do benefit to some degree from the unequal gender power relations that still pervade much of our lives.

You’re right that there are many and complex root causes of violence, and they merit discussion and further investigation. However, you miss the opportunity to to this and instead seem to justify male violence on the basis that “women do it to” and “men can’t help it and women chose it that way”. Your excuses that you were over-simplying the issue are cowardly and meaningless. I think you said it just as you think it, and you should be prepared to defend your [indefensible] position or apologise and rescind. If you do have something more insightful and enlightening to say you should have said it.

Note to the editors of the Standard (are there any??): personally I don’t think there’s a place for such misinformed, mysogonist and conservative pieces on a progressive blog. Its not just the opinions I disagree with (which I’m happy to do) but also the lack of rigour in the writing and the argument. This is not quality contribution to debate on domestic violence and I think your reputation is much damaged for publishing such rubbish.

[r0b (an editor) – It is well known that this blog is a loose collective and the authors don’t always agree. I’m not a fan of this post either, but pointing out its problems is what the comments are for, as you have just done.]

[RL: You put this statement is quote marks However, you miss the opportunity to to this and instead seem to justify male violence on the basis that “women do it to” and “men can’t help it and women chose it that way” as if they are a direct quote from my OP. They are not. What you are doing is projecting something you have imagined I said. This never makes for clear communication or a constructive conversation.

However I’m open to suggestion as to how you think my argument should have been constructed better. Given that gender is plainly not the root cause of dv, given that all the experts do talk about the need to dominate and control, and that you do agree that the are deep and complex causes which merit discussion … then your reply would have been a good moment to at least indicate what you have in mind. Attacking me as a ‘coward’ doesn’t feel like your best effort. ]
- Sarah Martin 23.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 12:39 pm
  
  I don’t expect (or even want) everyone to agree, but I do think there should be some minimum standards as to the quality of posts. You know, so we don’t waste our time arguing, for instance, on whether the earth is flat or whether men beat women because its just the way they’re made.
  - McFlock 23.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 12:50 pm
    
    The only thing that stops me agreeing with you is the idea that this blog is a discussion site for everyone across the left: sadly, apologising for sexual and intimate partner violence is still a thing within portions of the left.
    
    It paints a picture “warts and all”, and shows us where we all can improve. Maybe one day we can discuss Veitch or others without it going off the rails, even if opposing point of view posts are felt to be needed.
    - weka 23.1.1.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 1:02 pm
      
      I’d agree with that McFlock, except that The Standard no longer has any feminist authors willing to post on gender (or anything feminist). There is a reason for that and this post is part of it.
      - McFlock 23.1.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 1:05 pm
        
        fair call.
- weka 23.2
  
  9 May 2016 at 12:56 pm
  
  [r0b (an editor) – It is well known that this blog is a loose collective and the authors don’t always agree. I’m not a fan of this post either, but pointing out its problems is what the comments are for, as you have just done.]
  
  Out of curiosity, is there a line beyond which you or any of the other authors would be unwilling to go? A post promoting Holocaust denial? A post supporting legalising rape? A guest post by Matthew Hooton?
  
  Because if there is a line, then what we have here is yet again The Standard not being a safe place for women. It’s not about disagreeing, it’s about whether an organisation is promoting gendered violence culture in multiple ways.
  
  In which case, let’s no longer pretend that The Standard group has any real commitment to improving gender rights via this platform.
  - r0b 23.2.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 1:39 pm
    
    Yes I think there is a line – circumstances where we would take down a post (it has happened once).
    
    We have had strong female authors (now gone), we still have some (not very active). But yes we clearly have a problem retaining active women.
    
    Would like to discuss this further but am gone for several hours.
    - weka 23.2.1.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 2:00 pm
      
      I’m going to hazard a guess that the greater majority of feminist authors on ts to date would say that this piece should not have been published. If the standard had women moderators that reflected the number of feminists on social media, I think this would be playing out differently. As it is, the line of acceptability is being decided by men who quite possibly don’t understand what women are really saying about this or why they are saying it. There’s no shame in that not knowing, but it’s not ok to keep pretending either.
      - Rosemary McDonald 23.2.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 2:30 pm
        
        @weka
        “I’m going to hazard a guess that the greater majority of feminist authors on ts to date would say that this piece should not have been published”
        
        I’m not an author, nor even a regular TS commentor and certainly (after having been well and truly put in my place on more than one occasion) do not feel like one of the ‘club’.
        
        Yet, since I my unfortunate kneejerk “enabler” comment triggered by RL’s ““I find this post unnecessary and distasteful. All it does is rip open wounds and ill-feelings, pushes buttons and perpetuates the wrongs on all sides.” comment kind of led to him writing this post, I’m going to risk another opinion.
        
        Please don’t ban posts like this on The Standard.
        
        Knowledge is power.
        
        And now we all know.
        
        One thing I would suggest is that once the ‘edit/cancel/delete time has expired, commentors (even moderators) should not be able to remove comments.
        
        This makes further comments about that deleted comment look a bit weird.
        
        Yours, Damn Stupid.
        
        weka 23.2.1.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 2:54 pm
        
        Hi Rosemary, do you have any ideas on how Ts could be made safe for feminist authors?
        
        Rosemary McDonald …
        
        9 May 2016 at 3:32 pm
        
        Hi weka.
        
        I guess, no, I know, that the single biggest problem is that people are not actually reading what they are commenting about.
        
        Not really, really reading. And understanding exactly what the other person means.
        
        And then often take an antagonist position
        …unnecessarily.
        
        And we end up with a smelly, blinding, little shit storm.
        
        “…safe for feminist authors?”
        
        I don’t think any author/commentor is ‘safe’ in that environment.
        
        We should show respect for others by listening to what they say.
        
        My twopennyworth….
        
        and I appreciate being asked 😉
        
        weka …
        
        9 May 2016 at 5:26 pm
        
        Thanks Rosemary. I’ve gone and read your comments in the other thread (I didn’t read a lot of that the other day because I know Red’s views and didn’t want to expose myself to them again). I’ve also commented to Lynn in support of your use of the label ‘enabler’.
        
        I guess, no, I know, that the single biggest problem is that people are not actually reading what they are commenting about.
        
        Not really, really reading. And understanding exactly what the other person means.
        
        And then often take an antagonist position
        …unnecessarily.
        
        And we end up with a smelly, blinding, little shit storm.
        
        Yes. As much as I love a good argument (and I do) the very big down side is exactly as you describe. Pretty much all the conversations I’ve been in on ts like this one are like that.
        
        “…safe for feminist authors?”
        
        I don’t think any author/commentor is ‘safe’ in that environment.
        
        We should show respect for others by listening to what they say.
        
        True, and yet in general men are much more comfortable here than women. There are people who will be relatively well off even in this environment and there will be people that just have to stay away and many in between. There was a woman on twitter yesterday talking about how the Veitch thing had brought up all the trauma again and how that affects her on the day. Until women like her can speak up, be listened to, and heard, there is no safety and no progress.
        
        Those women cannot come into a space like this easily and those that do often get argued with in ways that seem ok to the men but are actually not safe. And there is not a good understanding here of what that safety means. I know when I’ve raised issues of safety in the past I’ve met denial and even ridicule. So yes I agree that the culture is not engendering safety in general, but it is also downright unsafe for some in a far worse way.
        
        It’s even worse for authors. They get verbally abused and threatened.
        
        My twopennyworth….
        
        and I appreciate being asked
        
        Always appreciate your perspectives.
        
        Rosemary McDonald …
        
        9 May 2016 at 5:53 pm
        
        Thanks weka.
        
        I reread “The Women’s Room” a while back.
        
        Nothing much has changed, eh?
        
        Ditto for child victims.
        
        Sabine …
        
        9 May 2016 at 6:44 pm
        
        you can’t make anything safer Weka, and you should know this by now.
        
        However, it should also mean that we need not shut up. In fact, we need these discussions, we need even the trivial put downs and abuses that are often hurled at us, sometimes even in Caps, so that those that won’t believe us, have a chance to believe their eyes.
        
        But make an online forum safer?
        Safer from whom? Men who feel they are hard done by women? Men who feel that they have lost privilege? Men that want to blame women for their own short comings? That is never going to happen.
        
        it’s sad, but it should never shut us down, and I don’t consider my self a feminist writer, i just consider myself a female commentator.
        
        weka …
        
        9 May 2016 at 7:14 pm
        
        There are feminist authors who no longer write here. Some of that is a safety issue. There are other women who won’t write here. Some of that is a safety issue. Of course it is possible to make places safer. I’ve been in places that are safe, and places that aren’t. Many women have. You don’t have to see it that way, but please don’t try and define the reality of other women.
        
        I’m willing to talk about safety on ts, but not in the face of people saying it’s impossible and never going to happen before they even understand what I mean.
        
        Sabine …
        
        9 May 2016 at 7:24 pm
        
        I actually did not say that. Please don’t always dismiss what i said.
        
        Fact is that we can’t make things safer. WE can take precautions, we can not walk down the dark alley way, we can have procedures in place like call a friend half way through a first date etc etc etc. And you would be so much better in talking about this than I as your english is light years better then mine.
        
        We can ban noxious posters, we can ban bullying and the likes, but for everyone we ban or dismiss a few others will raise their ugly heads.
        
        So in response to your question i gave you a heartfelt response. That despite the fact that ‘we’ cant make it safer ‘we’ nevertheless can not give up.
        
        I am a women as much as you are Weka, i know a lot about making myself safer, and i speak from that experience. ‘We’ can’t make “it” safer, we can only prepare ourself better. And sometimes that means leaving a place to never return, not writing a post, not commenting, not participating. But that did not make anything safer for those that stayed behind.
        
        weka …
        
        9 May 2016 at 7:53 pm
        
        Ok, so you believe it’s not possible to make the standard safer. If other women believe it is possible will you stand in their way? Will you support them?
        
        miravox 23.2.1.1.1.2
        
        9 May 2016 at 4:46 pm
        
        Hi Rosemary, I was pretty appalled to read what you’ve been through and then to see you knocked back.
        
        Please, don’t stop talking, I for one, very much appreciate your perspective.
      - Colonial Viper 23.2.1.1.2
        
        9 May 2016 at 2:34 pm
        
        No problem with your position weka as long as the male authors on ts also get input on which pieces the feminist authors should not publish or should retract after publishing.
        
        weka 23.2.1.1.2.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 2:52 pm
        
        Depends on what you mean by input. But note that I haven’t said that feminists should have veto power on posts written by men so if you think that is what I am suggesting it’s all on you that you still don’t get it.
        
        And, I’m not the one making it an us vs them thing here.
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        9 May 2016 at 3:14 pm
        
        I simply mean input – a discussion – and to confirm, I did not take your comment to suggest “veto power on posts.”
        
        weka …
        
        9 May 2016 at 3:33 pm
        
        Ok, well I don’t really understand then because of course everyone should have input. That’s assuming there was some kind of gender equity in the first place.
      - r0b 23.2.1.1.3
        
        9 May 2016 at 5:48 pm
        
        Weka – I would love to see TS become a better space for women / feminist authors and commenters – become a better community. But I don’t know how to do it.
        
        One of my problems is that I can’t trust my own judgements on these matters – I have often been told that as a male my opinions and judgements on matters relating to women / feminist issues have no validity. OK fair enough, but now I’m not sure how to proceed.
        
        Genuinely open to all suggestions.
        
        The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 23.2.1.1.3.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 5:51 pm
        
        I have often been told that as a male my opinions and judgements on matters relating to women / feminist issues have no validity. OK fair enough…
        
        Do you accept this?
        
        r0b …
        
        9 May 2016 at 6:09 pm
        
        Ever the stirrer GF! I don’t want discussion to get distracted from looking for constructive suggestions, so later perhaps.
        
        te reo putake 23.2.1.1.3.2
        
        9 May 2016 at 6:07 pm
        
        I’ve got a suggestion. Go through the authors/mods roster and remove all authors and moderators who are right wing, or who are misogynist, or who are bigots. Apologise publicly for having tolerated their bullshit, ask nicely if there are any women who would like to post and commit to moderating their work firmly so women know that they are now, and in the future, going to be respected here.
        
        I’m no sook, but there are times I’m ashamed to be associated with the Standard.
        
        The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
        
        9 May 2016 at 6:26 pm
        
        Ooh, a purge! Lovely.
        
        te reo putake …
        
        9 May 2016 at 6:38 pm
        
        If you don’t shit, you die. And the Standard badly needs a laxative.
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        9 May 2016 at 7:19 pm
        
        Well just keep going mate your ongoing diarrhoea will prove really functional in that case.
        
        I’ve got a suggestion. Go through the authors/mods roster and remove all authors and moderators who are right wing, or who are misogynist, or who are bigots.
        
        I will follow your comment up in the authors/mods column.
        
        weka 23.2.1.1.3.3
        
        9 May 2016 at 9:07 pm
        
        Thanks r0b.
        
        Weka – I would love to see TS become a better space for women / feminist authors and commenters – become a better community. But I don’t know how to do it.
        
        I think in the first instance it’s about listening to what potential feminist writers want and being willing to act on that.
        
        One of my problems is that I can’t trust my own judgements on these matters – I have often been told that as a male my opinions and judgements on matters relating to women / feminist issues have no validity. OK fair enough, but now I’m not sure how to proceed.
        
        Myself I don’t see it as your (or men’s) opintions and judgements not being valid. It’s that there is a time and a place, and too often in political spheres women have either been told to take a back seat, or have been lectured on what they need. Or have been ignored. So we need some time and space where we get to predominate. If you want women here you have to let women have a significant say in how that will happen.
        
        r0b …
        
        9 May 2016 at 9:38 pm
        
        I think in the first instance it’s about listening to what potential feminist writers want and being willing to act on that.
        
        Sign me up.
        
        If you want women here you have to let women have a significant say in how that will happen.
        
        I don’t believe that I am stopping them (or indeed that it is my place to “let” women do anything!).
        
        I will ask Lprent if it is possible to set up a post where comment is restricted to specified users…
        
        McFlock …
        
        9 May 2016 at 9:48 pm
        
        I will ask Lprent if it is possible to set up a post where comment is restricted to specified users…
        
        Thinking on my own behaviour, there’re some topics that I’m aware I lose perspective on, and therefore probably some that I’m not aware of it. But I also like to think that I make reasonably sensible comments on other topics.
        
        Just to get really complex, maybe putting some commenters on moderation for posts that have tags that indicate their (for want of a better word) triggers? Just the ones where people less invested in the topic might go “oh, not him again, another thread on cyclists derailed”, or whatever.
        
        swordfish …
        
        10 May 2016 at 12:07 pm
        
        “But I also like to think that I make reasonably sensible comments on other topics.”
        
        Jesus !, that’s a bit of a sweeping statement, McFlock. Let’s not be too hasty here.
        
        McFlock …
        
        10 May 2016 at 12:37 pm
        
        Being sensible is, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder 🙂
        
        lprent …
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:07 pm
        
        I suspect that the only realistic way is to allow commenters to have logins again. Otherwise the CPU cost of the checking could be be pretty horrendous.
        
        The idea would be to tag groups of users and then put tags into the allowed list for a post. The obvious tag is the author name and let the authors maintain their own lists by letting people apply to enter them. That also have puts the burden of maintaining the lists on to those who want them.
        
        It should be pretty easy. We should make the limitations to commenting quite overt. However I suspect that the posts operated that way will quickly deteriorate into rather boring ghettos with low readerships.
        
        weka …
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:21 pm
        
        I made the suggestion in the other thread of having a separate area for women authors to login into, where they can talk in private. Allow some regular women commenters in there too probably. Then let us figure some things out. Is that possible technically?
        
        I’m not sure what r0b meant, if it was about having general conversation threads, or if he also meant a space where women coudl talk about how to improve things here for women.
        
        r0b …
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:27 pm
        
        Sorry – I phrased poorly – I meant what weka suggests here – a one off post / space that is invitation only.
        
        weka …
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:18 pm
        
        “I don’t believe that I am stopping them (or indeed that it is my place to “let” women do anything!).”
        
        See this is the problem. If you (in the plural, as in the mods) choose to moderate in a way that creates an unsafe space for women, that’s you both stopping and not allowing women here. It’s the same issue as every other strutural sexism. I don’t mean that you personally are being sexist, I’m saying that the system that you have power in that I don’t is geared towards men and against women and you (all, men authors) have some control over that that the women don’t. Even the few women authors that have had similar login privileges to you have the odds stacked against them. So I’m suggesting, asking that you (ts male authors) step up and proactively do something to change the situation.
        
        r0b …
        
        9 May 2016 at 11:32 pm
        
        I think you should become an author.
        
        As above, I have been told that I don’t have the judgement required to create a safe space for women, which makes it difficult for me to try without feeling hypocritical. Quite apart from the time requirement – I can’t put in more time, leaving would be my only option.
        
        The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
        
        10 May 2016 at 8:30 am
        
        I thought telling “us” how to run the site led to a ban:
        
        Abusing the sysop or post writers on their own site – including telling us how to run our site or what we should write. This is viewed as self-evident stupidity, and should be added as a category to the Darwin Awards.
        
        Seems to be a lot of that happening on this thread.
        
        weka …
        
        10 May 2016 at 12:18 pm
        
        Thank-you r0b. I think I should work my way up to being an author, get a few more guest posts under my belt. If I were to become an author I wouldn’t write from an overtly feminist perspective the way things are here at the moment. That’s ok, there are plenty of other things for me to write about.
        
        As above, I have been told that I don’t have the judgement required to create a safe space for women, which makes it difficult for me to try without feeling hypocritical.
        
        Right. So where you have women saying they know what needs to happen, just support that and do the things they are asking. You don’t have to lead on this, but as one of the people who keeps the site going you do have power here.
        
        Quite apart from the time requirement – I can’t put in more time, leaving would be my only option.
        
        I’m not sure that it would require that much more time from everyone, I think the biggest obstacle here is attitudinal. I also think that there are a huge amount of posts going up at the moment and that an amount of that time could instead be spent on making changes to the site. Trade off some of the posts for the meta work. (although I can see why the current affairs of this time are so post-worthy).
        
        btw, I hope you don’t retire, but I do get the huge amount of work you are doing (and micky and lynn). It would be a real loss if you stopped completely, and I’m esp appreciative of the way you have kept CC in the forefront of things. I hope that if new writers come on board that frees you up to write what is really important to you rather than feeling like you have to be producing every day. But I also understand if it’s been too much and you need a break.
        
        Colonial Viper …
        
        10 May 2016 at 12:30 pm
        
        weka, you have my full support for a move up to being an author ASAP.
        
        The quality of your writing and ideas is already right up there; the only thing is coming to full grips with the insertion of media and hyperlinks, tags etc. into your posts so that they can go up without needing editing and proofing effort from lprent etc.
        
        But you only get good by doing it so I reckon you should ask for full author rights as soon as you feel comfortable with it.
        
        Nelson Muntz 23.2.1.1.3.4
        
        10 May 2016 at 11:16 am
        
        Here you go:
        
        http://returnofkings.com
        
        You can thank me later when your vagina has closed up and your balls have grown back. 🙂
        
        One Anonymous Bloke …
        
        10 May 2016 at 12:18 pm
        
        You have to make it here once before you can “return”, but cowering twice won’t look very kingly 😆
- The New Student 23.3
  
  12 May 2016 at 12:36 am
  
  Sarah Martin is quite possibly the best thing I’ve read all week. Fair call too re: quality check. Though a bit tough to swallow, I actually find posts like these to be quite enlightening. Opens my eyes that’s for sure o_0
  
  [RL: Given that Sarah Martin makes false misquotes from the OP and then constructs a personal attack on me from them, without actually addressing a word I said, your academic standards are not really good enough.]
LudditeJourno 24

9 May 2016 at 12:50 pm

Y’all made me blog, Mr RedLogix, so thanks for that, because this is a horror fest.
http://thehandmirror.blogspot.co.nz/2016/05/changing-face-we-value.html
- McFlock 24.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 12:56 pm
  
  nice one 🙂
- weka 24.2
  
  9 May 2016 at 1:04 pm
  
  +1 LJ. And thanks for the photos in that piece, because every other image in this debate is yet another photoshopped promo pic of TV.
- Sabine 24.3
  
  9 May 2016 at 6:48 pm
  
  well said.
dreadwomyn 25

9 May 2016 at 1:32 pm

When I clicked on the article early this morning I had expected to read a satire from a progressive source. Instead I am faced with re-living nearly every victim blaming statement that was hurled at me when I escaped with my children.

My takeaway from this article is that I was biologically predetermined to choose my abuser. All those years he screamed at me that it was my fault just came speeding back, guess the same applies to my rape.

This article has derailed me, derailed the work of the counsellors, friends and family who have supported me over the years. It undermines the work of ‘its not ok’ & the white ribbon campaign and offers nothing at all to those who seek solutions to the appalling cultures of violence & rape that exist in Aotearoa.

I had begun to hope we were making progess toward reducing and eradicating violence and rape, sadly this article proves not much has changed.
- weka 25.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 2:04 pm
  
  Yes, and that’s the worst of it for me, that the many, many women survivors voices are negated including the huge amount of work they have done to redress inequity that they are not responsible for.
  
  I think the lack of visibility of Kristen Dunne-Powell in Veitch’s story is a reflection of how invisible the rights of women are to be protected from this kind of cultural sanctioning of violence.
- seeker 25.2
  
  9 May 2016 at 3:34 pm
  
  Dear dreadwomyn
  
  I too was horrified by it, the title of the post was enough. I am surprised at Redlogix.
  I am sorry it has caused so much pain.
  - miravox 25.2.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 5:33 pm
    
    +1
    
    Except for the “surprised by RedLogix” bit. We’ve been here before, which is why I’m reluctant to get involved in his discussions.
    - weka 25.2.1.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 5:38 pm
      
      +1. For me it’s pointless to engage (been there, done that), although I am glad for the many people who have come here and called Red out on what he has written.
      - Colonial Viper 25.2.1.1.1
        
        9 May 2016 at 7:09 pm
        
        And likewise I back Red’s right to express his perspective, his life experience and to defend it against people who don’t appreciate it.
Draco T Bastard 26

9 May 2016 at 3:54 pm

Tony Veitch is astounding

This week’s most disturbing, cutting realness blog came from the Dad of Tony’s former partner Kristen. Steve the Dad isn’t taking any shit. He calls out Veitch on the fact Tony never apologized to Kristen, and is simply using the media to reconstruct his rep. What is an apology in public without one in person? What is an apology from a guy who has a long history of problematic behaviour but continues to diminish and downplay his actions?
Stephen 27

9 May 2016 at 4:19 pm

I am not prepared to accept at face value someone who claims they lost their temper in a one-off when in fact they have spent literally years abusing their partner: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2427247/Tony-Veitch-police-file-released

This article is a train-wreck for a progressive site: sketchy evo-bio arguments, placing blame on innate drives, countering a problem where men predominate with “but women do it too.” I would have expected to read it on some cranky men’s rights activist site, not The Standard.

Domestic violence rates vary from society to society; even in NZ, most men manage to get through life without hitting their partners. Locating the blame in biology is the worst kind of gender essentialist cop-out.
- Colonial Viper 27.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 7:05 pm
  
  Sorry mate are you saying that no biological or evolutionary reason exists for men to be more physically aggressive and violent than women?
  
  Of course biology would be just one factor amongst many others but how are you so sure about this?
  
  Secondly, what on earth does “gender essentialist” mean?
  - Rosemary McDonald 27.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 8:08 pm
    
    “Sorry mate(s)”…doing the male bonding thing…
    
    http://www.lajsiab.com/UXdISThlbHYxUFEx
    
    enjoy….
    - Lucy 27.1.1.1
      
      9 May 2016 at 11:54 pm
      
      That was unfair click on link and saw John Key – no need to listen to two creeps. Think that RL’s post continues the line that if we complain about the bro culture we are feminazi’s and we need to understand that 1) men can be victims of violence perpetrated by women and 2) that women sort of pick men who will beat the crap out of them. 2 appears to be the nub of RL’s post. I resent being told that if a man beats me I secretly want him to because of some genetic preconditioning! If a man beats a woman it’s because he is a sick fuck!
      - RedLogix 27.1.1.1.1
        
        10 May 2016 at 12:05 am
        
        Truly I have read your comment above and shake my head with amazement Lucy.
        
        I was the one who wrote that post and I know exactly what I was saying, and it absolutely bears zero relation to the conclusions you have drawn. I don’t mean this as a put down, and I hope you read it as an impassioned plea to go back and have another look.
        
        And this time please, please don’t project onto it all your worst fears about me.
- RedLogix 27.2
  
  9 May 2016 at 7:07 pm
  
  countering a problem where men predominate with “but women do it too.
  
  That was not the argument. The argument is simple; if dv was caused by gender alone then logically ALL perpetrators would be male. But they are not.
  
  So while gender clearly exacerbates the issue (ie male are the predominate offenders), it cannot be the root cause.
Richard@Down South 28

9 May 2016 at 6:50 pm

As an adult male, I find abuse of women appalling

My mother left my dad when I was 4 1/2 years old due to him being abusive towards her, and myself…

However, I do think ANY abuse is unacceptable… and that includes female on male, female on female, etc etc (or whatever someone wants to identify themselves as)

I must say I found the attempted public apology this topic is about, to be just ‘marketing’
- lprent 28.1
  
  9 May 2016 at 9:42 pm
  
  I must say I found the attempted public apology this topic is about, to be just ‘marketing’
  
  So did I. My thought was that Veitch was job-hunting and his PR company thought that his public image could be a bit of a problem.
  
  I thought that the victim’s father’s post was spot on.
  - b waghorn 28.1.1
    
    9 May 2016 at 10:01 pm
    
    Yep after going and reading her fathers post I’ve changed my view from seeing vietch as a guy whos taken his medicine to agreeing that he thinks he’s the victim, the fact he hasn’t personally apologized is proof.
Richardrawshark 29

9 May 2016 at 11:16 pm

In respect to Male assault female domestic Redlogix I find your words

“Certainly for men the gift of our greater physical strength comes the greater responsibility to use it safely”

your missing it, I think, we are basically the same homo-sapiens that appeared in Africa genetically, over the years humanity became more civilized, we started wearing cloths, we progress, it’s more civilized now, we don’t settle our issues with a duel at dawn and we don’t hit people in 2016.

It still happens, is it genetics, are these people depressed and lashing out, are they thugs, I bet each case is different and some will be down right mean. All sexes do domestic violence, most violence alone is probably male-male, domestic, well.

As for your suggestion

“Why? Because women females always chose for their partners them most physically, sexually or economically dominant male they can select at the moment. This is basic observable biology. And in all of nature males violently compete for female attention and mating rights”

I would suggest otherwise, A woman will choose a partner for many factors, genetics , there’s also a chemical reaction pheromones that play a part, oh far more goes into it than picking the sexiest dominant male in the room.and your answer is way off the science behind human mating. Wouldn’t be many 6 stone weaklings walking about would there? I suppose.

I do also think this is a poorly worded opinion piece, but I respect your point of view and hope my reply helps change your belief a little.

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National Government’s backward-looking climate policy has seen New Zealand fall seven places on the Climate Change Performance Index to 41 out of 63 countries measured. ...

Labour Blog

17 hours ago
Release: Simple reason for drop in emergency housing

When the Government says it has reduced the number of people in emergency housing, what it means is it is stopping people from accessing it in the first place. ...

Labour Blog

20 hours ago
Govt’s child wellbeing strategy ‘shallow and shameful’

The Government is turning its back on children by not only weakening child poverty reduction targets, but also removing child mental wellbeing as a priority focus in their Child and Youth Wellbeing Strategy. ...

Greens

21 hours ago
Release: A historic win for Samoan communities

Labour warmly welcomes the Restoring Samoan Citizenship Bill as it passes its third reading, before becoming law. ...

Labour Blog

21 hours ago
Government plan to reinstate live animal exports a “national disgrace”

The Government has taken a giant step backwards by reinstating live animal exports. ...

Greens

2 days ago
Pasifika justice as Member’s Bill passes final reading

Teanau Tuiono’s Member’s Bill, the Citizenship (Western Samoa Restoration) Amendment Bill, has passed its third reading and will become law. ...

Greens

2 days ago
Release: Minister of Education thinks New Zealand ends at the Bombay Hills

The Minister of Education has shown complete disregard for rural communities and their school bus routes in Question Time today. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Economists sound alarm on Government’s slash-and-burn approach

A group of prominent economists has released an open letter to the Government, raising grave concerns about the far-reaching consequences of its fiscal policy. ...

Greens

2 days ago
Release: Smoking numbers up under Costello’s watch

National’s repeal of Labour’s smokefree legislation has taken New Zealand further away from achieving a Smokefree 2025 and a smokefree generation. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Release: Call for Palestine recognition by NZ, Australian and Canadian MPs

Parliamentarians from Australia, Canada and New Zealand have written an open letter to their respective Prime Ministers calling on them to recognise Palestine. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Justice Select Committee opens floor for Treaty Principles submissions

Today, the Justice Select Committee has decided to officially open submissions for the controversial Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

3 days ago
Power of the people on full display as hīkoi approaches Parliament

Today, Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrived in Wellington, with thousands gathering to march in unity against the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

3 days ago
Hypocrisy as Te Whatu Ora contractor bill balloons

Te Whatu Ora’s bill for contracting and consulting staff has ballooned by nearly 20 percent under the National Government, breaking a promise they made during the election campaign to cut contractors. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
Release: Growing pressure to scrap Section 7AA Repeal Bill

The newly released Section 7AA Repeal Bill's select committee report is further evidence that the Government should scrap it. ...

Labour Blog

5 days ago
Government’s move to monetise access to nature a slippery slope

The Green Party is voicing serious concerns over the Government’s proposal to charge for access to public conservation land, released today. ...

Greens

7 days ago
Green Party condemns the passage of Treaty Principles Bill

The Green Party condemns the passing of the Treaty Principles Bill at first reading, and is clear that the fight is not over. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Stand Up for Te Tiriti

Te Tiriti o Waitangi is our country’s founding document. It forms the basis of the relationship between Māori and the Crown – and the Aotearoa New Zealand we live in today. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Release: Over 15,000 sign Labour’s open letter to Luxon

As the hīkoi to Parliament continues, Labour has sent an open letter to Prime Minister Christopher Luxon in a last-ditch attempt to get him to kill the Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Fast Track Bill threatens environment, climate and reputation

The fast-track legislation passing its second reading in Parliament is another step towards environmental ruin. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Greens join King’s Counsel in calling for Treaty Principles Bill to be abandoned

The Prime Minister must answer the call from a group of senior lawyers of the King’s Counsel to abandon the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Chris Hipkins’ apology statement to state and faith-based care survivors

...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Release: Labour formally apologises to state and faith-based care survivors

Labour joins with the Government in unreservedly apologising for the abuse, neglect and trauma including torture in state and faith-based care and for ignoring the voices of survivors for too long. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Green Party stands in support of survivors of abuse in care

Today, the Green Party stands alongside the survivors of abuse in state care and faith-based care as the Government issues an historic apology. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Green Party calls for conscience vote on Treaty Principles Bill

The Green Party has written to the Speaker of the House requesting he enable a personal vote on the Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Govt move to exclude journalist risks chilling effect

The Green Party is alarmed by the Government’s move to exclude a journalist from covering this week’s apology for the survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Without action, an apology will be empty air

For tomorrow’s apology to survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care to hold any water, the Government must not pursue the same policies that drove the abuse in the first place. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Concerns remain over tobacco interference

Concerns about the tobacco industry’s ability to interfere in government policy making remain, despite the inability of the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the Government’s decision to halve the excise tax on heated tobacco products. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Urgent wake-up call on climate

The Climate Change Commission’s latest advice indicates Aotearoa needs to be stepping up on climate action. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Green MP’s Meme-ber’s Bill set to save the world

Break out the punchlines and dust off your meme folder: Green Party MP Kahurangi Carter’s Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill was pulled from the Ballot yesterday. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Poroporoaki: Ta Robert (Bom) Gillies

Kua hinga te manawa kairākau o Te Rua Tekau Ma Waru Tiwhatiwha te po! Kakarauru i te po! Ka rapuhia kei hea koe kua riro! Haere e te Ika a Whiro ki o tini hoa kua ngaro atu ki te Pō ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principles Bill

The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...

The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
NZ must pursue independent foreign policy

The Green Party says the need is greater than ever for Aotearoa New Zealand to pursue an independent foreign policy. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Winston Peters must apologise

The Deputy Prime Minister should apologise to the public servant he named and blamed for something they did not do, and for misusing the rules of Parliament. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago

Government action provides Southland farmers more time to meet plan requirements

The Government is taking action to ensure Southland farmers and growers are not affected by unreasonable regional farm plan deadlines, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard say.“Cabinet has agreed to provide more time for farmers and growers to comply with regional rules ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

14 hours ago
Bill reaffirms Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending

The Oranga Tamariki (Responding to Serious Youth Offending) Bill had its first reading at Parliament today. The Bill reaffirms the Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending, Minister for Children Karen Chhour says. “In recent years we have seen an unacceptable spike in youth offending. “This Bill makes ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

14 hours ago
Critical milestones for earthquake buildings review

Fairer, more sensible rules about managing earthquake risks are a step closer with the passing of legislation and the appointment of an independent chair to provide expert advice, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The Government is committed to reinvigorating our cities and regions to support economic growth, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

15 hours ago
State of the art radiology machine for Auckland

People in Northland and Auckland will benefit from a new machine for cancer treatment installed at the Regional Cancer and Blood Service at Auckland City Hospital. The MV5 linear accelerator, or LINAC machine, officially opened today targets cancer tumours with pinpoint accuracy. Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says this new, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

15 hours ago
Foreign Minister to visit Europe

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Europe for high-level talks with France, Germany and the United Kingdom next week. "Since taking office almost a year ago, the Coalition Government has emphasised the importance we place on New Zealand's traditional and likeminded diplomatic and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

16 hours ago
First arrests made under gang patch ban

Police have made their first arrests under the new gang patch legislation, with two gang members arrested, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “Just before 11 this morning, Police in Wairoa apprehended a gang member for wearing a patch to the supermarket. He has been arrested and will now face enforcement ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

17 hours ago
Better support for victims of sexual violence

The Government is proposing two major changes to name suppression laws that will put the views of victims of sexual violence first, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “We are committed to restoring law and order and these two proposed changes will help ensure the victims of crime are put at ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

18 hours ago
Government moving forward with Regional Deals

Cabinet has agreed to invite all regions to submit proposals for Regional Deals between central and local government that drive economic growth and deliver the infrastructure our country needs, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop say. Inviting all regions to propose a Regional Deal that boosts ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

18 hours ago
MSA pilot participant update

One of the ten young men selected to participate in the Military-Style Academy Pilot has allegedly reoffended. Children’s Minister Karen Chhour is disappointed but says it would be naïve to think that none of these young men would reoffend. “I’m saddened that this young person has not taken this opportunity ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

19 hours ago
Attendance rates increase, again

Associate Education Minister David Seymour says that school attendance is continuing to rise. In Term 3 of 2024 51.3 per cent of students attended school regularly, an increase of 5.3 percentage points from 46 per cent in Term 3 of 2023. “This Government has prioritised student attendance and it is ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

20 hours ago
Improving the lives of young New Zealanders

Ensuring New Zealand is the best place in the world for children and young people is the vision at the heart of the Government’s new Child and Youth Strategy, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. “Childhood represents a huge opportunity to set people on a positive path towards living ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

23 hours ago
Government continues work to reinstate livestock exports by sea

The Government is reinstating the trade of livestock exports by sea while ensuring the highest standards of animal welfare, says Associate Minister of Agriculture Andrew Hoggard.“The Government will introduce legislation changes to reinstate the trade, enhance oversight, and strengthen requirements for exporters to identify risks and manage the welfare of ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Speech to the National Quality Forum 2024

Tēnā koutou katoa – it is a pleasure to be here today. I would like to begin by acknowledging the important leadership role you all play in ensuring a quality health system New Zealanders can trust. There is enormous clinical expertise in this room covering a wide range of disciplines. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
New Zealand’s COP29 National Statement

Tēnā koutou katoa. Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. New Zealand, and all nations represented here today, are already dealing with the impacts of climate change. Our households, businesses, and economies are bearing the costs of its effects. The choices we make now will shape the severity of these impacts for generations ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Latest Quarterly Investment Report released

The Government has released its second Quarterly Investment Report (QIR) which shows substantial work still to be done by agencies to improve investment reporting and meet the Government’s expectations, Infrastructure and Acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “New Zealand has significant infrastructure and investment needs. The Government is determined to get ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
New Zealand supporting loss and damage fund

Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced New Zealand will contribute NZ$10 million to the new Fund for Responding to Loss and Damage while at the annual United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP29) in Baku, Azerbaijan. “New Zealand is joining the global effort to address the significant challenge of responding to ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Gang crackdown begins at stroke of midnight

The free ride for gangs is over when the clock strikes midnight tonight, with tough new laws officially coming into effect, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Police Minister Mark Mitchell say. “Gang patches will no longer be able to be worn in public. To earn the right to wear a ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
LGFA increases borrowing capacity to support high growth councils

The Government is welcoming the decision by the Local Government Funding Agency to increase access to financing tools for fast growing councils to support greater investment in critical infrastructure, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says.“Communities across the country are facing an infrastructure deficit and significant population growth is projected in ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Temporary Traffic Management costs revealed

The Government has revealed that over the past three years, the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) has spent an eyewatering $786 million of taxpayers’ money on road cones and temporary traffic management (TTM), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“When I became Minister, I was surprised to learn that that NZTA did ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Jurisdiction of Disputes Tribunal to double

Legislation that will double the financial jurisdiction of the Disputes Tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000 has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith. “We need to improve court timeliness and access to justice so that Kiwis and get on with their lives. Court delays affect everyone, the ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Protecting New Zealand from foreign interference

Legislation that will specifically criminalise foreign interference and strengthen espionage offences has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “It is normal and appropriate for states to interact and work to influence one another. This encourages cooperation and can have mutually beneficial outcomes. “However, the reality ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Significant milestone for Canterbury Road of National Significance

Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news that the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) Board has approved funding towards pre-implementation and early works on the State Highway 1 (SH1) Belfast to Pegasus Motorway and Woodend Bypass Road of National Significance (RoNS). “Reaching this significant milestone is a reflection of our Government’s ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Health survey results to help drive change

Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says findings from the annual Health Survey highlight the need to continue driving better health outcomes for New Zealanders. The New Zealand Health Survey is an annual snapshot of key metrics measured from July 2023 – July 2024. Findings released this morning include: In 2023/24, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Final push needed to get to Smokefree 2025

A renewed effort to get people to quit smoking will build on what has worked to date and target the groups who most need support, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello said today. “The latest New Zealand Health Survey results show the daily smoking rate at 6.9 per cent and we ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
New diplomatic appointments

Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced four new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Next steps for Regulatory Standards Bill

Regulation Minister David Seymour has today announced the next steps in the Government’s plan improve the quality of regulation by opening consultation on a proposed Regulatory Standards Bill. “New Zealand's low wages can be blamed on low productivity, and low productivity can be blamed on poor regulation,” says Mr Seymour. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Red Tape Tipline goes live

Minister for Regulation David Seymour has today announced that the Ministry for Regulation’s Red Tape Tipline is now live. “We want to hear about your red tape horror stories. From today, New Zealanders will have a say on how they are regulated through an online portal,” says Mr Seymour. The ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Youth Parliament 2025 announced

The Minister for Youth Matt Doocey has today announced the eleventh Youth Parliament will be taking place in 2025. “Youth Parliament offers a unique youth development opportunity to young people from across New Zealand to experience the political process and learn about how government works,” says Mr Doocey. “The two-day ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Police stats show promising change

After nearly a year in Government, Kiwis have seen significant change across law and order with promising early results shown across some Police statistics, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “In August 2023, I told New Zealanders that if they had not started to see a change in public safety within ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Better coordination of anti-scam efforts

With the launch of Fraud Awareness Week, the Government is committing to new coordination efforts across industry and government to combat online scams, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Online financial scams are a growing problem for New Zealand. New data released today shows that Kiwis lost nearly ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Minister to consider 7AA select committee report

Minister for Children Karen Chhour will consider the recommendations made by the Social Services and Community Committee in its report back to Parliament on the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill. “I want to thank the people who made submissions and those who appeared before the committee in ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Defence Minister to attend ASEAN meeting

Defence Minister Judith Collins will this week attend the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Defence Ministers’ Meeting-Plus in Vientiane, Laos. “We need to take every opportunity to engage with our international partners, given the increasingly unstable geo-political situation,” Ms Collins says. “New Zealand has a long-standing commitment to this ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Launching the White Ribbon Ride

The Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, Karen Chhour, was on hand to wish riders well at the start of the North Island leg of the White Ribbon Ride in Whakatāne this morning. The ride helps mark the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 days ago
Construction to begin on next stage of Papakura to Drury

Construction on the next stage of the SH1 Papakura to Drury project will begin early next month, with the contract for works awarded to Fulton Hogan, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. "SH1 Papakura to Drury is a key project that will drive economic growth and productivity, reduce congestion, and enable people ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
NZ signs trade deal with Costa Rica, Iceland and Switzerland

Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has signed a pioneering trade agreement that prioritises New Zealand’s sustainable exports at a ceremony during APEC in Peru today. “The Agreement on Trade and Sustainability (ACCTS), between Costa Rica, Iceland, and Switzerland was concluded in July of this year and opens up significant ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
Government and iwi work together on aquaculture

Five new Aquaculture Settlement Areas will help ensure Ngāi Tahu shares in the opportunities aquaculture offers for Southland’s economy, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. “The Aquaculture Settlement Areas (ASAs) I’m announcing today set aside space so the Crown and Ngāi Tahu can assess their potential for aquaculture development. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

7 days ago
Government launches review to ensure electricity market is fit-for-purpose

The terms of reference for a review of the performance of the electricity market have been released. The review, initiated by the Coalition Government during the power crisis in winter will look at whether current regulations and market design support economic growth and access to reliable and affordable electricity, Energy Minister ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

7 days ago
Speech to Social Investment Hui: Jack and his whānau need our help

Kia ora koutou katoa. Nau mai, haere mai, piki mai. Ki te mihi atu ahau, ki te manwhenua nei, Te Atiawa, Ngāti toa rangatira, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Thank you, Andy, for your introduction. Let me acknowledge you as the new Chief Executive of the Social Investment ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

7 days ago
Minister of State for Trade heads to Brisbane for PACER Plus meeting

Minister of State for Trade Nicola Grigg has travelled to Australia to attend the PACER Plus Ministers Meeting in Brisbane. “Trade plays a critical role in driving employment, economic growth, and improving the standards of living in the Pacific Region. The Government is strongly committed to supporting Pacific Island countries ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

7 days ago
Proposals to modernise conservation released

Toitū te taiao – Our environment endures The Government is consulting on proposals to modernise New Zealand’s conservation management system, aiming to protect relevant natural areas while supporting sustainable growth in tourism and regional economies, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. “Today, the Department of Conservation – Te Papa Atawhai is ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

7 days ago

Government slammed for pushing ahead with boot camps while trial still under way

The coalition has "absolutely no intention of listening to the evidence that comes out of their experiment", Labour MP says. ...

Radio NZ – political

48 minutes ago
Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate

Labour claims Government is ‘cherry-picking’ smoking trends data to hide decade-first increase in daily smokers The post Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Fox Meyer

52 minutes ago
Treasury bangs the drum on ‘unsustainable’ superannuation

The Government’s economic adviser is sending a message it doesn’t want to hear – superannuation is increasingly unaffordable The post Treasury bangs the drum on ‘unsustainable’ superannuation appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Tina Morrison

1 hour ago
Victims of sex offending welcome shift on name suppression laws

A man abused by a former political figure is "immensely relieved" at a government proposal to end secrecy around sex offenders' identities. ...

Radio NZ – political

1 hour ago
This week three parties stood together – can they withstand the storm to come?

There is plenty yet to play out, but the next election is at this rate shaping up as trio versus trio, writes Toby Manhire. A subplot of this week’s historic hīkoi mō te Tiriti has been the sight of the three opposition parties presenting a unified front. Te Pāti Māori ...

The SpinoffBy Toby Manhire

2 hours ago
All 33 malls in Auckland ranked from worst to best

From the low lows of abandon empires to the high highs of a mall done just right. This is the second in the Malls of New Zealand series, where we rank the malls in major centres. Next week: Wellington. A note from the editor: This is the hardest ranking we’ve ...

The SpinoffBy Group Think

2 hours ago
The cost of being: A clothes-mad 20-something who walks everywhere

As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a 27-year-old apartment-dwelling marketing exec explains her approach to spending and saving. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here. Gender: Female. Age: 27. Ethnicity: Pākehā. Role: Marketing exec at ...

The SpinoffBy The Cost of Being

2 hours ago
Raw Politics: Six months in a leaky Bill

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon did not meet the Treaty Principles Bill hikoi crowd, sees “nothing” of merit in the Act-proposed law but the Parliament his Government dominates will spend six months debating a “divisive” measure.That’s because he has accepted there needs to be “aeration” of people’s views on the Treaty, ...

NewsroomBy Newsroom Staff

2 hours ago
Taken to the brink, Govt is now close to selling big Whakapapa ski field

Bidder Whakapapa Holdings walked away from the sales process last year, but says it’s now ‘95% there’ on a purchase agreement – so who blinked first? The post Taken to the brink, Govt is now close to selling big Whakapapa ski field appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Andrew Bevin

2 hours ago
Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 22 November

Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp');Got a good quiz question? Send Newsroom your questions.The post Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 22 November appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Newsroom Puzzles

2 hours ago
Daily crossword, Friday 22 November

The post Daily crossword, Friday 22 November appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Newsroom Puzzles

2 hours ago
China likely to strengthen regional relationships in response to another Trump term

Opinion: Recent discussions in Shanghai provide some insight into what’s likely to be on the table The post China likely to strengthen regional relationships in response to another Trump term appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Jason Young

2 hours ago
Nuclear winters know no borders

Opinion: The immediate horror of nuclear weapon explosions – the blinding flash, crushing blast wave, and radioactive inferno – is well documented.But what nuclear-armed nations either don’t grasp or won’t admit, is far more chilling: how their weapons could devastate even countries thousands of kilometres from any mushroom clouds.The collapse ...

NewsroomBy Nick Wilson and Matt Boyd

2 hours ago
This week’s bestselling books – November 22

FICTION1 Kāwai: Tree of Nourishment by Monty Soutar (David Bateman, $39.99)Sample dialogue, all from one chapter:“That can’t be,” replied Taona doubtfully.“You were right. The pā is unnervingly quiet,” Taona murmured.“The Hākuwai,” Motukia breathed. “Our grandfathers told us they rarely saw the Hākuwai in daylight,” Motukia muttered.“Their fight would have been futile ...

NewsroomBy Steve Braunias

2 hours ago
Burma the flying elephant

After about two and a half years of planning and waiting, New Zealand’s last elephant has moved to her new home at Monarto Safari Park in South Australia.Burma and her “human herd”, that is, her keepers, arrived last week, and she’s settling in well, according to Auckland Zoo’s Andrew Coers.“Something ...

NewsroomBy Gwen McClure

2 hours ago
NZ’s membership of Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance in jeopardy

Senior ministers in the coalition suggested NZ’s membership will be re-evaluated if it restarts offshore oil and gas drilling The post NZ’s membership of Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance in jeopardy appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Marc Daalder

2 hours ago
Watts nears a landmark deal on global carbon trading

A framework for global carbon trading under the Paris Agreement is finally nearing completion at COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan after years of halting talks.Climate Change Minister Simon Watts is one of two ministers tasked by the COP29 hosts with landing a long-sought deal on Article 6 of the climate accord, ...

NewsroomBy Marc Daalder

2 hours ago
Grattan on Friday: Marles plays a defensive bat on nuclear as the government rushes to get though la...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Richard Marles is an ambitious man who hasn’t given up the dream of one day reaching the top job. But, despite being deputy prime minister, his profile is much lower than that of Treasurer Jim ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

7 hours ago
NEW POLL: Kiwis Overwhelmingly Support MPs’ Expenses Transparency Law Change

62% of respondents support the extension of the OIA to cover MPs’ spending, compared to just 13% opposed and 24% were unsure. ...

Scoop politics

9 hours ago
The House: Meanwhile, a week of passing law

The political week has been packed with worthy distractions, but all week Parliament has focused on passing new laws. Here are the highlights. ...

Radio NZ – political

9 hours ago
The biggest difference between Hīkoi mō te Tiriti and past hīkoi: More support from non-Māori

Analysis - The diversity of voices during the hīkoi was noticeable - from tangata moana to young immigrants to elderly Pākehā from the South Island. ...

Radio NZ – political

10 hours ago
The House: Samoan citizenship restoration – ‘It means we belong to this land’

When the bill to restore NZ citizenship to some Samoans passed this week, Parliament's galleries were full to the brim with members of the community. ...

Radio NZ – political

11 hours ago
More Delays In Action On Use Of Puberty Blockers With Children

Women’s Rights Party Co-leader Jill Ovens says the Ministry has put New Zealand children at risk by continuing to allow “off-label” prescribing of puberty blockers at far higher rates than other similar countries. ...

Scoop politics

12 hours ago
Police Minister adamant he wasn’t aware of gang members training at gun clubs

That is despite two papers from police that raised the matter with him. ...

Radio NZ – political

12 hours ago
Shorten declares himself ‘a proud moderate’, saying Australians ‘in the middle’ shouldn’t ...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Bill Shorten has declared himself “a proud moderate” in a valedictory speech declaring parliament has the responsibility to ensure the extremes of left and right do not set the terms of political debate. Shorten, ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

12 hours ago
New ‘best practice’ principles for superannuation products are coming. We asked a panel of exper...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matt Garrow, Editorial Web Developer Studio Romantic/Shutterstock We all know how important it is to save enough money for retirement – but what about spending it wisely when we get there? Even for those who have built up a suitable ...

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Government accused of betraying Kiwis’ trust over lack of consultation on live exports

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Radio NZ – political

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7 things you can do if you think you sweat too much

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Phenergan for under 6s is now banned due to hallucination fears. Here’s what to use instead

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nial Wheate, Professor of Pharmaceutical Chemistry, Macquarie University Australia’s drug regulator has issued a safety warning over the medicine Phenergan and related products containing the antihistamine drug promethazine. The Therapeutic Goods Administration said the over-the-counter products should not be given to children ...

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13 hours ago
A new stage adaptation of Peter Carey’s Jack Maggs is a delightful homage to theatrical storytelli...

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The government has introduced laws for its social media ban. But key details are still missing

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13 hours ago
Archives NZ, National Library to cut 27 roles

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Radio NZ – political

14 hours ago
Gang patch ban: Members warn of potential for violence to ‘erupt’ as new laws enforced

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Radio NZ – political

14 hours ago
ACT leader David Seymour raises doubts about Waikato medical school

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Radio NZ – political

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National’s Erica Stanford allegedly calls Labour’s Jan Tinetti a ‘stupid bitch&#82...

The Education Minister has apologised in Parliament for her remark. ...

Radio NZ – political

14 hours ago
Labour backs new Police Commissioner – but warns against routine arming

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Radio NZ – political

15 hours ago
Youth on boot camp pilot re-offended five weeks after release

Children's Minister Karen Chhour said while it was disappointing, it would naïve to think none of the participants would lapse. ...

Radio NZ – political

16 hours ago
In photos: People of the hīkoi, and why they marched

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Radio NZ – political

16 hours ago
‘Everything is becoming a culture war’: Jon Ronson on conspiracies and cycleways

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17 hours ago
Kia kaha Lebanon: NZ media only tell half your story of struggle

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Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report

17 hours ago

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