It’s Time for a Cost-Benefit Analysis of Dairy Farming

Written By: - Date published: 7:42 am, May 29th, 2018 - 166 comments
Categories: Conservation, Environment, exports, farming, farming, food, uncategorized - Tags:

Jacinda Ardern pretty communist

Not just, ‘we’ve got to make the good outweigh the bad’.

I mean: why should dairy farming exist here?

We know the standard facts and figures about how many people dairy farmers employ.

You can look that up on DairyNZ’s website, and they’ll tell you all about how many other benefits that dairy farming brings.

We also know the amount of water required to make a litre of milk.

We now also know that this water volume used will never be taxed, ever.

And we can talk about the amount of excrement per litre of milk into our rivers as well.

But let’s get more fundamental than that.

Other than being legislatively required to do so, Fonterra does not need New Zealand dairy farmers. Fonterra could roam the world sourcing its milk pools at will for its products, and increasingly that’s what it does. It is quite possible that the upcoming dairy legislative review will finally cut Fonterra’s requirement to take every drop that NZ dairy farmers provide. Non-shareholder farmers would be just another stock unit to Fonterra itself. Fonterra doesn’t need NZ dairy farmers.

Historically, dairy farming destroyed much of the native forests of the North Island. Turned their ash into pasture. I’m not asking them to apologize about that, but that destruction is only three generations ago.

In return for that wholesale slaughter of native birds and trees, going extinct fast as a result, the dairy farmers returned for New Zealand a century of cheap, bulky, low-value products generating low returns, low research, poor careers, and forming very few globally strong brands. There’s no Gruyere or Parmesan equivalents from here conquering the delicatessens of the world. We remain, beyond the spin, a slightly more sophisticated bulk ingredient supplier generating much the same stuff as dairy farmers did a century ago. We have been held back by dairy farmers.

Granted, dairy farmers are some of the hardest working people in the country, within a country renowned for low rewards and very very hard working people. They’re the backbone of the country, and what a wonderfully stiff backbone it is too.

Interestingly, even naming and shaming the culprits at the source of the outbreak hasn’t stopped the talkback discussions about what we are being required to spend taxpayer subsidy saving.

Remember those Morrinsville farmers who protested against our ‘communist’ Prime Minister? Those are the guys we are feeding our taxpayer dollars towards right now.

This country owes dairy farmers as much subsidy as it did to South Canterbury Finance, Minnie Cooper Shoes, or any other private business in New Zealand: nil. Dairy farmers usually proudly say that they never take subsidy from the government. It’s never been true. Dairy farmers have cost us this country.

MFAT, the Ministry for Fonterra And Trade, pretend so hard that they aren’t a branch office of dairy farmers largely to ensure they aren’t obviously breaking any WTO rules. Three decades working on dairy farmers’ behalf in trade deals have on balance achieved sweet fuck all. The entire world will never, ever loosen their protections against our dairy farmers. We’ll always be the only country in the world who will ever have an unsubsidized dairy industry, making New Zealand dairy farming the global definition of a useless virtue.

On the balance of damage and cost to our global reputation and to our country, we would make more money turning every dairy hectare back to Manuka and collecting honey. If every dairy farmer gave up tomorrow and farmed pretty much anything else except coarse wool, by export returns, pollution, indirect subsidy, job richness, and global food reputation, we would all be better off than we are now.

Yes, everyone in the world needs food. Even apples can be damaging.

More broadly, agriculture is one of the worst polluting industries on the planet, though it could be such a life-affirming power of good for the earth.

Here, we now know that dairy farming is the most destructive and wasteful industry that we have ever produced. Even gold mining largely confined its toxic waste dumps to just a handful of dammed sites.

No amount of greenwash advertising about the glories of dairy farming will get them out of this.

Because of this outbreak, our exporters are about to face a brown wave of negative stories about our food manufacturing and food security practices, as if we haven’t had enough of those in the last decade.

They are the fault of dairy farmers, but it won’t be our dairy farmers fronting the responses that seek to salvage our reputation. It will be our government and its departments that will have to respond with massive media spends and political capital spends.

This is by a long long way our worst ever farming disease outbreak. It has been caused by dairy farmers.

Maybe this outbreak is the tipping point where New Zealanders start to ask whether the entire enterprise of dairy farming is understood as destructive to New Zealand; has been for years and continues to be so; that dairy farming has made this country sick; and that as a result dairy farming is not worth it.

166 comments on “It’s Time for a Cost-Benefit Analysis of Dairy Farming”

  1. Robert Guyton 1

    Your placard- bearing farmer picture emotionalises the argument to no good end, in my view. Southland’s oat-milk project is pointing the way.

    • Ad 1.1

      The PM is leading this from the front. Farmers never hold back their emotion and it’s time we all did the same.

      If 160,000 dead cows and $800m of tax money aren’t getting to you, check your pulse.

      • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1

        True that, one thing you can say about the left in general is how well they keep their emotions in check

        • greywarshark 1.1.1.1

          PR
          That’s why you stick around here isn’t it. The vitality and vim and excitement of being near thinking, caring people gets you up and out of bed each day, to join in the talkfest.

      • dukeofurl 1.1.2

        160,000 dead cows ?

        The process of dairy farming kills around 1 mill of their 6 mill cows each and every year. Thats how it happens.
        150,000 over 2 years isnt not a lot when seen in that light
        While beef cattle can be infected most wont be because the farmers are less likely to have infected herds because they dont move stock here there and everywhere like dairy farmers do.

        Most of the cows will be fit to be trucked to the works like they always are. Only the worst infected will be culled on the spot and buried and that will be a small number.

        • Ad 1.1.2.1

          Identifying that killing is a necessary part of the mechanized food industry is hardly a defence.

          Trying to defend even more killing on top of that – this time completely avoidable – is also not a defence.

          This outbreak is going to take out about 3% of our dairy production. That’s about the same as a serious drought.

          Minimising the impact of what is going on because of this outbreak, is what got us here in the first place.

          • dukeofurl 1.1.2.1.1

            A big drought was much worse than 3%, I dont know why you call it the same.

            “On a daily basis compared to the past year, Waikato production was down 27 per cent, Bay of Plenty milkflows were down 21 per cent, Taranaki was down 9 per cent, and Southland was down 1.5 per cent. ‘
            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10491416
            Those arent full year numbers, but the numbers of cows culled over 2 years wont reduce milk production anything like 27% in say waikato.

            Even 2017 was a ‘dry season’ as Fonterra called means 4% less for last year.
            https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/100255070/dry-season-causes-drop-in-fonterra-milk-production

            Im a bit lost with your arguments for ‘not culling’ because its emotional thing and yet you make good arguments for reducing dairying because of the big picture ?
            Half the calves are killed within a month of birth, the rest are replacements for the milking herd, who once their milk output drops are trucked away for hamburger mince, as will most to the infected cows.

            Im not a farmer so theres no need to caught caught up in the emotion of it, and neither should they, but everyone is different.

            • Macro 1.1.2.1.1.1

              Totally agree with this analysis Duke.
              The average life of a dairy cow in NZ these days is very short whereas in the past, and where they are a cared for animal, they can live up to 25 years.

              Once the dairy cows are so worn out that they have produced all the milk they can, they are sent to slaughter, usually at around four or five years of age; the average natural lifespan for a cow could be as long as 25 years.

              http://www.ad-international.org/farm_animals/go.php?id=120
              During a drought – and droughts are increasing in frequency in the east of the North Island – the culling of dairy cattle is a frequent occurrence. The relatively small number of 120,000 compared to the size of the national herd is not excessive – but farmers are well known to be moaners of the first order. Just listening to the few from Winton on RNZ this morning was very demonstrative – and ironically is seems these are the farmers amongst whom are the main suspects for introducing the disease in the first place!

              • dukeofurl

                No surprise at all that the ‘hotspots’ for the earliest outbreaks are very high density dairy farming with herds of 4000.
                Add to that, remote diagnosis for the vets on Waiheke, backdoor imports of items from who knows where .

        • Notreadyet 1.1.2.2

          Not quite correct, huge numbers of dairy beef calves born on dairy farms as a result of putting beef bulls over either late cycling cows or those that the dairy farmer doesnt want to breed replacement stock from are sold onto beef fattening farms, those many beef farms that dont run their own breeding stock

    • mickysavage 1.2

      I thought it was a perfect picture. Heavy duty state response made necessary to a crisis created by private enterprise.

      • Robert Guyton 1.2.1

        The crisis was begun (allegedly) by a single farmer/family/farming operation, bringing bovis into the country. It was exacerbated by the failure of the animal tracking system, brought about by widespread failure to adopt it, made worse by a Government and it’s agencies that didn’t require it’s full adoption and further worsened by shady farming practice; selling un-tagged calves, etc. Or so it’s said. The umbrella issue is agricultural culture. A complete over-turning of that would make a great discussion, but quibbling about this situation; a wheel within a wheel within a wheel, wouldn’t have the needed grunt to change anything much, Imo.

        • Muttonbird 1.2.1.1

          But these sort of accute disasters are the only events which go any way to changing culture from within the industry.

          As the post says there have been too many protections for NZ’s “agricultural culture” riding roughshod over the environment for too long. The dumb hick in the photo represents all those protections and how “agricultural culture” rails tooth and nail against reform.

          This has been a rocket up their arse and it is important to make sure they felt it good and proper.

          • greywarshark 1.2.1.1.1

            Muttonbird
            Hear, hear! Here. here! You tell it like it is.

          • patricia bremner 1.2.1.1.2

            These dairy people have been very slow to pay a “living wage”, consider they should be able to bring migrant workers in “to keep costs (wages) low, yet they cry poor and act like the Government is the cause of their pain, “why are they taking so long….. to compensate us for our losses?/decide what to do??”

            The sheer bloody effrontery takes my breath away!!

            People have gone without/been in pain/gone unrewarded for their labours and this lot expect us to fork out again.??

            Hopefully it can be eradicated, but I feel they should get suspensory loans, coupled with some compensation to change their practices , as happened with the Kiwi fruit industry, not a bloody blank cheque for entitled prats… and I have farmers in the family. They do not “go without.”

  2. Antoine 2

    To have dairy farming or no dairy farming, is not a centralised decision. It’s up to the individual farmer. I don’t want a government that tries to turn the tap off on an entire industry. That is just totalitarianism.

    A.

    • Robert Guyton 2.1

      They aren’t, Antoine, so relax. Do you believe the choice of whether a sensitive area of land should be converted to dairy should lie with an individual farmer, rather than a resource management agency? Are you concerned that a desire for riches or a lack of scientific understanding on the part of that individual could result in harm to the environment?

      • Antoine 2.1.1

        > They aren’t, Antoine, so relax.

        I am relaxed, I am just responding to what I took to be Ad’s suggestion.

        > Do you believe the choice of whether a sensitive area of land should be converted to dairy should lie with an individual farmer, rather than a resource management agency?

        I am happy for this decision to be made by an appropriate resource management agency. But it should be tackled locally rather than nationally.

        > Are you concerned that a desire for riches or a lack of scientific understanding on the part of that individual could result in harm to the environment?

        Sure, and I think we should seek to prevent this. But on a case by case, or at worst region by region, basis.

        A.

        • Robert Guyton 2.1.1.1

          Antoine – you suggest a “case by case” decision on starting dairy farm – who would hear that case?
          Region by region? No coordination between regions then; no national overview to ensure standards, fairness and equal opportunity?

          • McFlock 2.1.1.1.1

            Interesting thought experiment, that.

            Maybe a licensing regime like alcohol or gambling – the prospective dairy farmer has to account for how they will control harms like pollution and carbon emissions, cap herd density, look at literal downstream effects, and it gets reviewed every three years.

            • Robert Guyton 2.1.1.1.1.1

              McFlock – they’re called Farm Management Plans or something similar and they’re what the industry wants. Does that ring a bell (warning) ?

              • McFlock

                Oh, I’m sure they want some bullshit (lol) that’s flawed by either participation of compliance in some way, like the NAIT.

                I actually mean something with teeth that goes through an external system, like alcohol with the Liquor Licensing authority. So photos of cows in lakes mean the farm manager loses a practising certificate, and effluent discharges have penalties that actually affect farm operation. Forest&Bird and environmental authorities get to lodge objections every licensing time, like cops do with bar licenses.

                And a sort of “red judge” to ensure nationally-consistent judgements, rather than cow cockies knobbling a local authority to allow shit flowing downstream.

                • Robert Guyton

                  Good
                  Luck

                  • McFlock

                    lol purely a thought experiment. The next step would be to consider whether any application would ever be permitted under an ideal evaluation scheme 😉

    • Ad 2.2

      – Kauri and other native timber milling
      – Hydro dams
      – Nuclear power
      – Whaling
      – Seal hunting
      – Mining in national parks
      – Oil exploration
      – Any subsidized industry in New Zealand prior to 1986.
      – Coal

      The above are a few New Zealand industries dead or almost non-existent, due in large part to both public opinion and government intervention.

      Dairy farmers operate under a social license like everyone else does.

      • Antoine 2.2.1

        >Dairy farmers operate under a social license like everyone else does.

        Which probably should be cut back a bit, compared to the last decade or two. But not to the point of killing off an entire industry, as your post seems to suggest.

        (Also, some of your examples are weak, but I shan’t nit pick.)

        A.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.1

          We actually don’t get any benefit from that industry so why should we keep it around?

          • Macro 2.2.1.1.1

            But! But! But! Draco – farmers are the backbone of the country
            In which case the backbone is well and truly fractured.

      • humma 2.2.2

        Coal dead? We are a large producer and exporter of coal. More than 1 million metric tonnes per annum. What was Solid Energy is back producing again and its not a small operation. A lot of our coal goes to India and other offshore markets.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3

      It’s up to the individual farmer.

      No it’s not. It’s up to the entire country. The farmers are, after all, destroying our country for their own personal enrichment.

      The rest of us not only have a right to have a say but we need to have a say.

      • Macro 2.3.1

        The rest of us not only have a right to have a say but we need to have a say.

        Quoted for truth.
        If, for instance we are to spend $800m some of it as “compensation” to some of the wealthiest people in our land over 10 years to eradicate a disease from around 120,000 cattle – how are we to compare that to the 41,000 people in our country who have no where to lay their heads at night?

      • patricia bremner 2.3.2

        When it goes wrong they want us to compensate them but not regulate them????
        They can feck off!!

  3. Muttonbird 3

    Massive opportunity here to reduce the stock count in NZ, permanently and to discourage further intensification practices.

    Nice work from this government.

    Even now the farm which brought it in* is trying to minimise and deflect.

    Also:

    “We’ll always be the only country in the world who will ever have an unsubsidized dairy industry.”

    Should this read “never”?

    • Ad 3.1

      No the sentence is correct.

      • Muttonbird 3.1.1

        How does this fit with the previous paragraph where you say, “Dairy farmers usually proudly say that they never take subsidy from the government. It’s never been true”?

        • Ad 3.1.1.1

          Subsidy in the trade sense is about price and volume command-and-control mechanisms. See Canada and France.

          Subsidy in the indirect sense is what the post concentrated on. That was what the paragraphs above that explained.

          No, they are not the same thing.

          • greywarshark 3.1.1.1.1

            Choosing the use and meaning of the term subsidy like that Ad. It is really economic rhetoric.

  4. ropata 4

    Amazing how the farmers have stopped bleating about communism. They will never vote Labour so why bail them out

  5. Robert Guyton 5

    They’re coming thick and fast:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/104286685/mycoplasma-bovis-bumped-us-off-mpi-agenda-oyster-farmer-claims
    Eradicate Mycoplasma bovis? So long as nothing else appears…

    • dukeofurl 5.1

      What even does that mean ?

      Dairy Cows have a value per head. Its easy to determine, its in the $1600 per head range.

      ‘Once a year the Inland Revenue Department publishes the national average market values for livestock to use for tax purposes in farming accounts.’
      https://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/87845/ird-2017-average-market-livestock-prices-show-increasing-value-year-dairy-cattle

      Oysters might go for a fraction of that, and thats landed price not retail prices. So of course they are getting a fraction of the total amount.

      • greywarshark 5.1.1

        Hey dukeofurl you are worth more than that, whatever low value someone puts on you for being a dunderhead. The return on the item isn’t the top criteria.
        I’ll let you exercise your brain and come up with some others that could change the graph around.

        • dukeofurl 5.1.1.1

          Saying even more garbage is enlightening who ?

          Compensation is paid for the value of the loss. End.of.story. ( well the one the link talks about)

          Its a typical newsroom hype story.
          Dairy farmers have made some fanciful claims too and found them delayed. Oyster farmers seem to be in the same boat

  6. Pat 6

    Why should dairy farming exist here?

    Because we want the lifestyles to which we have become accustomed and sheep and beef could no longer provide it

    Provide a viable alternative

    • Robert Guyton 6.1

      The status quo is not viable – you provide an alternative.

      • Pat 6.1.1

        lol…I wasnt the one asking the question.

        However the alternative is clearly in my response if you care to look

        • Ad 6.1.1.1

          Our lifestyles are perfectly viable if New Zealand changes the kind, yield, density, and value extracted from agriculture practices.

          I don’t feel the need to provide that full alternative at this point.

          The dairy farmers have fucked things up. It’s their responsibility, not ours, to show us all how it will never happen again.

        • Ad 6.1.1.2

          It is the dairy farmers responsibility to now prove themselves again to us and the world, not the rest of us.

          Yes, our lifestyles are perfectly sustainable. The national budget verily overflows with milk and honey. But not at this expense.

          • Pat 6.1.1.2.1

            “Yes, our lifestyles are perfectly sustainable.”

            LMAO

            If nothing else these discussions simply reinforce the increasingly obvious observation that we incapable of avoiding our self destruction.

            Carry on

    • Ad 6.2

      Our lifestyles are perfectly sustainable, even from an agricultural base, if we change the kind and density and value derived from agriculture.

    • lprent 6.3

      You appear to be equating revenue with profit. They are not the same. Who cares about an enterprise that makes large amounts of revenue, but little to no profit for the country.

      As an industry it pays virtually no tax compared to any manufacturing enterprise and its employees. Similarly its spend in local sevices and manufacturing (ie the golden tricle) is very small compared to any urban export enterprise.

      We have enormous tarseal road networks paid by taxpayers and ratepayers mostly in urban centers for milk trucks and their daily routes with heavy loads.

      What profit that is made generally goes straight to austrailian banks as interest on speculative land values.

      Economically as a country we’d be better off without dairy.

      I could go on But that really sums up the basic issues. Dairy is a very low profit industry and an appalling misuse of large amounts of capital that could be put you better used.

      • greywarshark 6.3.1

        Thanks lprent
        for stating the facts that continually get overlooked. I was amazed to see the low amount of money that dairying brings in to NZ despite all the hype and the sacrifices of water quality, and availability, and mucking up the environment caused by this rort which seems to be based on folk legend constantly repeated.

      • Pat 6.3.2

        Think you may be letting your bias colour your thinking

        Dairy (for all its faults, and they are many) is as varied in its profitability as any other industry and uses the same expertise with regard to tax liability as the majority of businesses.

        It has earned recently at times 1 in 3 of our export dollars and currently accounts for around 1 in 4

        Its flow through effect to the wider economy is significant particularly in regional NZ but even in our cities

        As to profits going to Australian banks the same can be said of all economic activity irrespective of any industry, and including home mortgages.

        You may (or may not) recall the last recession in NZ was triggered by a drought…that should demonstrate the place of ag in the NZ economy for anyone.

        http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/sectors-reports-series/pdf-image-library/manufacturing-report-2018/manufacturing-sector-report-2018.pdf

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/77893537/dairy-downturn-will-have-massive-effect-on-south-island-economy

        • Draco T Bastard 6.3.2.1

          You may (or may not) recall the last recession in NZ was triggered by a drought…that should demonstrate the place of ag in the NZ economy for anyone.

          That clearly shows that we should drop farming as a major industry.

        • greywarshark 6.3.2.2

          You take the same line of being correct and arguing the case for dairy which at present doesn’t deserve the support you give.

          A point as to why it is so important to the NZ economy is that dairy-addicts have carried out grievous attacks on the rest of our economy while going for the first free-trade economy in the world, so that our dairy can demand entry to other markets on a semi- permanent basis. Most other businesses here have been subject to such huge competition that they have atrophied, and been replaced by foreign owned, our government respect for NZ has also atrophied.

          We are badly situated from a financial advisor’s viewpoint as a stable, good businessplace despite appearances, because underlying everything we are ‘over-exposed’ to dairy (and tourism) and too much investment is going into what is a mature industry.

          One may be overexposed to an industry, a company or even an investment vehicle. For example, a mutual fund may be overexposed to the financial sector by buying too many stocks in banks relative to its stocks in other industries.
          https://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Overexposure

          • pat 6.3.2.2.1

            “You take the same line of being correct and arguing the case for dairy which at present doesn’t deserve the support you give.”

            You are mistaken Grey….not support, acknowledge….dairy is but one of many targets of opprobrium that we piously point out the costs and failings while demanding the benefits of…..and everyone must change (as long as it doesn’t affect me)

            By all means ban it….and be prepared to live with the consequences.

            • greywarshark 6.3.2.2.1.1

              B-But I don’t want to ban dairying. It seems to me that a lot of the commenters here read their own meanings into others’ comments. It is impossible to get a point over that requires a balanced thoughtful and practical mindset. Narrow views abound, black or white, stop or go. Ideas thresh around like the dirty washing in a machine without any soap.

              • Pat

                my apologies….you haven’t suggested banning it ….I had conflated your questioning of the industries impact on the economy with the calls of other commenters to diminish or ban it…..but I stand by the comment I wasn’t supporting it so perhaps it could be called deuce.

                • greywarshark

                  It goes back to 6.3.2 and I know you were stating facts but as i read it I thought yeah, nah. Despite all that, we need to remember that there have been large uncalculable, externalised costs to get that. Also the borders were opened here in a quid pro quo, and the flood of imports has washed away numerous small businesses and their jobs with them.

                  And as you say the Australian banks are doing very well out of dairying; everyone is having a fair suck of the sav. You weren’t actually supporting it I know but…

      • Observer Tokoroa 6.3.3

        You make good points.

        Dairy Farming runs around rural areas day and night . Right through my town and region on tarsealed roads. Passing lovely Farm Estates, Fonterra Trucks.

        As you know, like most of New Zealand the South Waikato is built on mud. Road subsidence is an ongoing constant. The Tax Payers, including aged pensioners, pay for it. Farmers for some reason do not have major tax bills.

        A Dutch chap from there paid himself $8.32 Million for a year”s work in 2017. I am not kidding you. “Way way up you Farmers, Way way up you Farmers, Earlyey in the Morning. The old pensioners will pay you.

        So a lot of running about is done, by men in trucks, but not much real $dollar value is gained for all the fuss and fluster. The Cheese they make up the road in the Fonyterra plant is not exactly what you might consider haut cuisine. But it is very expensive,

        Nearby Goat farms provide much better value and product solids from far smaller foot print. And no Vet call outs. Fact.

        Please don’t swim in our cow rivers – you will suffer. We have the most Beautiful greatestfinest River in the whole of the Land. The Waikato River. The Farmers have Fucked it. They are still fucking it.

        No wonder the buggers with insulting signs and crocodile tears have mental problems.

      • humma 6.3.4

        You are way off the mark there Lprent.
        Its not profit that is the important figure, it is revenue. This revenue is pretty much all foreign money coming into NZ. Without it we would be absolutely poked and much of the services and goods we provide we would not be able to. Where that revenue money ultimately goes to is not important. It comes in via Fonterra and then gets spread around. Everyone benefits. Including our economy being able to use those foreign currencies to pay for our imports.

      • Observer Tokoroa 6.3.5

        Lprent You make Excellent points.

        Dairy Farming runs around rural areas day and night . Right through my town and region on tarsealed roads. Passing lovely Farm Estates, in Fonterra Trucks.

        As you know, like most of New Zealand the South Waikato is built on mud. Road subsidence is an ongoing constant. The Tax Payers, including aged pensioners, pay for it. Farmers for some reason do not have major tax bills.

        I am not kidding you. “Way way up you Farmers, Way way up you Farmers, Earlyey in the Morning”. The old pensioners will pay your costs.

        So a lot of running about is done, by men in trucks, but not much real $dollar value is gained for all the fuss and fluster. The Cheese they make up the road in the Fonterra plant is not exactly what you might consider haut cuisine. But it is very expensive,

        A Dutch chap from that same Fonterra plant paid himself $8.32 Million for a year”s work in 2017. I am not kidding.

        Nearby Goat farms provide much better value, and product solids, from far smaller foot prints. And no Vet call outs. Fact.

        Please don’t swim in our cow rivers – you will suffer. We have the most Beautiful finest River in the whole of the Land. The Waikato River. The Farmers have Fucked it. They are still fucking it. It seems to be the only thing they know.

        No wonder the buggers have mental problems.

    • bwaghorn 6.4

      From what I can see sheep and beef provides a pretty comfy life .(I m a shepherd who has close friends who own farms) Not super rich but done well for long enough the payoff is tidy enough.

      • Pat 6.4.1

        Yes,,,but would they have if the national flock hadnt over halved?….there has been a huge amount of economic activity associated with dairy conversions and operation that couldnt and didnt occur with sheep and beef operations.

        Dairy utilises far more labour and machinery and the consequent maintenance and service requirements not to mention the daily production flows as opposed to seasonal….we all know the problems with seasonal demand.

        I don t wish to appear an industry cheerleader but the realities need to be acknowledged….if we wish to downsize or disband dairy and its associated problems we either replace it with something that can contribute as much ( which wont happen overnight) or cut our cloth accordingly….and cutting our cloth dosnt appear terribly popular

    • Draco T Bastard 6.5

      Pretty much anything other than farming.

      The problem wasn’t that there weren’t alternatives to farming but that we held on to the delusion that farming was good and that we’re a farming nation. And also that we were just too damn cheap to do the R&D that would have developed those alternatives.

      We really would be far better off if we reduced farming to the point where it was enough to feed us and used the 100 thousand or so people freed up to develop those alternatives.

      • Pat 6.5.1

        “We really would be far better off if we reduced farming to the point where it was enough to feed us and used the 100 thousand or so people freed up to develop those alternatives.”

        Perhaps so…but meanwhile?

        I revert to my original question…provide a viable alternative…or in other words,,,what is the plan?

        • Draco T Bastard 6.5.1.1

          You want a command economy now?

          There’s room in the rest of the economy to absorb those 100k people in one way or another. They just need retraining.

          • bwaghorn 6.5.1.1.1

            Your retraing better be outside and interesting and not involve me working for the types you find in doc or corporate farming

            • Draco T Bastard 6.5.1.1.1.1

              Find an industry that you’re interested in – your choice.

              Same as what’s been told to those of us who’ve been redundant as industries and jobs have gone by the wayside since forever.

              Why do you think you should get special treatment?

              • bwaghorn

                Just flapping my key board which is what you were doing

                • patricia bremner

                  We need to begin a levy (tax LOL LOL) to cover R&D.
                  BUT BUT!!!!!
                  They wouldn’t want that!!

                  It is the old “privatise the profits and socialise the debts/problems.

    • Gsays 6.6

      Organic dairy farming.

    • Bruce 6.7

      crickets

    • Cinny 6.8

      Future farming is….

      Hydroponic warehouses especially in the cities, drought and flood tolerant when it’s inside 🙂

  7. saveNZ 7

    Personally in light of the Melamine crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

    and the Chinese baby milk blamed for 50 deaths https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/apr/21/china.jonathanwatts,

    I’m not that keen on the idea of NZ sourcing the cheapest milk from overseas aka,

    “Fonterra could roam the world sourcing its milk pools at will for its products, and increasingly that’s what it does.”

    But I do think think that Dairy has to be made more sustainable, they should not be dairying in areas like Canterbury and they should avoid the idea of intensive dairy farming.

    As for Manuka, good idea apart from Myrtle rust has reared it’s ugly head.

    And as for a cost benefit analysis, can government do that for Auckland basket case, because the rate payers are up for billions of debt and we have homeless living in the streets, and people who lived here all their lives being priced out of the city. Not what I call a great benefit for Auckland as a legacy to hand on to the next generation.

    NZ needs to diversify, and actually seems to be doing that but more clear out needed of Natz destructive polices on lazy dairy and immigration.

    Tech for example is doing very well, since it was largely ignored and has not been a political football.

  8. saveNZ 8

    If they do that they will also destroy Fonterra and make a killing for John Key trader types at the expense of the farmers.

    “It is quite possible that the upcoming dairy legislative review will finally cut Fonterra’s requirement to take every drop that NZ dairy farmers provide. Non-shareholder farmers would be just another stock unit to Fonterra itself.”

  9. DB 9

    I’ve had enough and I’ve been trying to stick up for farmers in a way. But the balance from Farmers has been take take take.

    They were rorting us with tax breaks on in-ground swimming pools (reservoirs they said with a wink) in the 70’s. Did the practice stop with pool fencing regulations? Hard to find information now but it was extended family doing this (and the other farmers) and they loudly and proudly crowed about it.

    I never saw a swimming pool with irrigation pump on hand – it was BS. When that loophole closed off they go cap in hand we need water despite the rainfall in the country providing more than enough if one were to think about it…

    Trees were seen as the enemy of pasture, despite the fact significant portions of meat/milk production is lost to wind chill… So we got rid of the damn trees cos – farmers know shit!

    Rye grass staggers in summer – the industry salivates at trying to breed a resistant grass to cover the whole country. Short sighted as one pest could wipe everything out. All the eggs in one basket. W…T…F…?

    The rye grass organism reaches significant numbers as a result of ecological vandalism, arising from overgrazing and over-fertilising. Also, the hot dry weather. If these morons grew croppable shelter belts this could be midsummer feed. Farmers are stupid. I met plenty thought they were amazing doing a feed budget…

    Lately a clever lass in Waikato University is trying to selectively breed a clover requiring less phosphorus as the mycorrhizal organisms that typically supply it to plants are compromised by… phosphorus fertiliser. So farmers pour on more of it to try supply the clover… clover mixed in grasses will lower staggers…. it’s all connected. Farmers though, major disconnect. They pour on the damaging products to compensate for the damage caused by the products. See where that’ll take us. Oh, we can already, go take a swim in a river. The overfertilising directly contradicts one effect of clover, lowering staggers.

    We don’t need specialist clover, GE, or more tech, we need sustainable practise. I do admire the thinking of the Waikato scientist however, it’s very practical except it’s trying to fix a broken system.

    I dream of a day when it isn’t farmers vs townies, rather, NZ’ers. But I am dreaming if I think we should put up with this lot trying to dictate who we are as a nation. As a representative group, there aint that much to be proud of in our Farmers. Plenty of people work like trojans without owning the business and land – hard working is a kiwi trait, not a farmer trait at all.

    There’s a whole clusterfuck of stupid going on today and I’ve tried for decades to introduce science and ecology to Farmers and been treated like an asshole for trying to help. I have ways of increasing production and decreasing inputs. Witchcraft!

    Fuck em.

    • bwaghorn 9.1

      The left supposedly are the bigger people but if you recall pre election the hate pouring from the left towards us was over whelming . You cannot influence people who do not trust you

      • Ian 9.1.1

        The left are full of hate.I hope no depressed dairy farmers read this crap.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.1

          You’re projecting, which is a good thing, because if the Left really were full of hate, you’d still look like a complete hypocrite begging for a hand-out, and then we might confiscate your assets under the Proceeds of Crime Act. As it is, we’re just going to bail you out yet again.

          As a stickler for law and order, you’d then look like a hypocrite even more, and I’d be unable to contain my laughter.

          Now fuck off while we clean up your* disgusting mess.

          *as in “you” singular: other farmers don’t share or participate in your ingrate entitled whinging.

          • Ian 9.1.1.1.1

            Mr big balls anonymous putting the gumboot in once again. Luckily I don’t give a rats arse on how or what you think .

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.1.1.1

              And yet you’re still going to stand in the way, eh. You’re going to carry on authoring nasty smears against the very people you rely on when push comes to shove.

              My business model doesn’t socialise my expenses. I get that the food supply is vital to the state, and export milk powder doesn’t exactly meet that criterion. If all the benefits accrue to you, singular, and all the costs accrue to us, plural, I’m sure you can figure out how that ends up.

              • Ian

                This blog is full of nasty smears old fellow. It should carry a health warning.You don’t work at MPI by any chance ?

      • patricia bremner 9.1.2

        Trust!! Now bwaghorn. That is the question. Who should trust who?
        The guys who called us communists? The ones who brought this in? The processes that caused this?

        But we have to turn the other cheek because, correct me if I’ve misread posts here saying in various ways, “we are too important to NZ to fail” and it’s to do with trust.

        No, it is far more like whaling used to be!! Yes… there is an analogy to think on.
        A bloody costly way of life which really needs deep analysis.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.2

      /agreed

      • DB 9.2.1

        I agree there was far too much shrieking and too little thinking pre-election. Turned me right off politics at the time didn’t even bother to vote to be honest. I’m a leftie but that’s on the left. All the hate turned me off.

        Anger is a normal emotion. But is it justified, or second-hand?

        We live to be outraged. Look at Simple Simon, that’s his whole schtick.

  10. Adrian 10

    Payout compo but only to those farms that have paid tax in NZ and haven’t repatriated large management fees to Holland and China and elsewhere effectively putting the entity into a deliberate tax loss situation.
    Give this job to Winston, should be right up his cow race.

    • Antoine 10.1

      Our international agreements won’t let us do that

      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1

        And yet another reason why the present international agreements are no good for us.

    • saveNZ 10.2

      Yep, given the sad state of NZ First, might be time for one of Winston’s famous, ‘wine box’ type enquiries on overseas repatriation of taxes…. there also seems to be plenty of wealthy but tax poor satellite family situations growing up in Auckland that NZ taxpayers seem to be funding, that he could get his teeth into. Could get NZ First back into some sort of relevance.

  11. RuralGuy 11

    Yawn…

    More urban versus rural rubbish on The Standard. What a surprise. I’m the 23rd post on this blog, and the 22 ahead of me show absolutely zero understanding of dairy farming. I remember asking on this blog once before what was industrial farming and had a range of responses that went from a system 1 to a system 5, indicating to me that this blog does not understand how it’s food is made. It’s sad how disconnected urban dwellers have become.

    So I’m a dairy farmer; as right now dairy provides easily the best return on investment and is the best use of my land bar none. I’m also pragmatic. Should there be central or regional mechanisms in place for me to change my land use, then so be it; I’ll still select the most permissive highest value land use. Think of me as the modern version of the gentry class, I’m merely a land owner so can extract value from my land to meet the market.

    I recall talking to a rabid vegan recently who foresaw the demise of my business, only to see the blood drain from his face when he realised that I’m not wedded to dairy farming; and should producing plant based protein actually provide a meaningful return exceeding dairy, then I could easily and happily change my farming entity to match consumer demand and continue quite happily. Owning land gives me that option.

    Of course, there are a few thousand farms for sale, you can always buy a farm and do something better with the farm instead of posting on what other people should do with there private property.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1

      It’s what you do with our property that’s the problem, especially the health of our waterways and climate.

      I’ll say that again so that it has a chance of sinking in: it’s what you do with our property that’s the problem. If you had to compensate us* for the damage you do to our property, you might have second thoughts about what’s “best” for you.

      *note that in this case “us” includes you, whereas “you” doesn’t include anybody but yourself.

      • You_Fool 11.1.1

        I agree that the true cost of dairy farming isn’t calculated, so it seems like a great return when overall it might not be. It is not just dairy that has this issue, everything we purchase doesn’t have the full cost (financial, social (and cultural) and environmental) included in what we pay, so the free market doesn’t work to actually focus all our available capital to be of most use, to either ourselves or our society.

        • saveNZ 11.1.1.1

          +1 You_Fool – we need to have wider focuses on the impacts of point decision making and calculations and what is real profit into long term NZ coffers and what is not. Too many NZ IYI class decisions being made, that are totally arbitrary, not thought through, plain wrong or misleading or based on completely different circumstances of a different country, different times, or economic formulas that are wrong. Sometimes in the case of treasury recently 25% out in their calculations – they can’t even get the maths right! Industry lobbyists have taken over the government’s ears and the media and even previously independent blogs or groups.

        • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.2

          …so the free market doesn’t work to actually focus all our available capital to be of most use, to either ourselves or our society.

          Yep. The ‘free-market’ would only work if all costs were properly accounted for. Unfortunately, our governments have spent centuries ensuring that they’re not.

          This is actually what calls for deregulation was about – making sure that the costs of a business weren’t properly accounted for.

          And that is why we need regulation. It’s regulation that makes a market system work. Without it the market fails to properly account for costs.

      • patricia bremner 11.1.2

        OAB Yes!! There is the unvarnished truth.

    • Bill 11.2

      Did you just hit the nail on the head?

      The “best use of my land bar none” is a conclusion based solely on financial return, meaning that the chances of your land use being the best bar none is pretty damned remote.

      If (for example) wool prices hadn’t collapsed, or if a whole host of other financial impacts hadn’t become determining factors for land use (including, quite reasonably – “How do I keep this farm making money so it can continue to be passed on through the family?”), then neither you as a farmer, not New Zealand as a country, would be in this terrible fix where, if the farmer loses out the country gains and visa versa.

      For what it’s worth, I might detest some of the stuff farmers get up to, but I don’t blame farmers any more than I blame the latte drinking city professional, for joyfully buying into and supporting a wholly chrematistic culture of worth.

      The good news is that the days of that focus being a somewhat successful determinant for some in how they conduct their life and business, has a shelf life with an expiry date that pretty much coincides with one day in the life of some people alive today.

      The bad news is the likely levels of chaos and misery that will have been brought down on the heads of those finally compelled to abandon this culture we currently exalt.

    • Adrian 11.3

      I don’t know if that’s directed at me Rural but I agree with you, I farm grapes and my sentiments apply to the rapacious corporates in this wine business as well as the diary one rorting and hiding profits and tax obligations in offshore entities.
      Nothing like a good Pinot with a juicy steak, eh.

    • Crashcart 11.4

      I fully support the idea that you should be free to do what is best for you on your land. What ever you think is most profitable is what you should be doing.

      Lets carry that through though and agree that you should also wear all the cost rather than pushing that off on to the tax payer. If water ways around your farm are not swimmable you and surrounding farmers should have to immediately pay to clean it up. If you require more water to make your land suitable for sustaining your choice of produce you should wear the cost of putting in place the irrigation system right back to where the water is drawn from. If a bunch of your cows catch a disease you should either claim it back on insurance you paid for to protect against this eventuality or you should wear the cost of the cows being destroyed. Oh and you should also be bought in to the Emissions Trading Scheme and pay for your share of carbon emissions like the rest of the country.

      Basically if you want to happily claim all the profit from your land feel free to wear all the cost as well. Just like urban business is required too. Then you can at least make an informed decision about what is actually profitable.

      • Antoine 11.4.1

        I am an urban dweller and I don’t pay for my water, my carbon emissions or any low level pollution I might cause…

        A.

        • Muttonbird 11.4.1.1

          A you sure about that?

          • Antoine 11.4.1.1.1

            Positive.

            • crashcart 11.4.1.1.1.1

              You might want to look in to the ETS and which industries it has and hasn’t been applied to. Sure no one has sent you a bill labelled ETS but feel comforted that the other bills you pay do in fact include the cost of your carbon emissions.

            • Muttonbird 11.4.1.1.1.2

              You do pay to get water to the places you use it and for it to be taken away again. You do use water, don’t you?

              Also you pay for emissions as a consumer of goods and services. But then perhaps you don’t consume anything?

              Then there’s the rates you pay to take away your waste and recycling, and I don’t mean the comments you make here!

              I’d say like all of us as urban dwellers you do produce low levels of pollution but to claim you pay nothing doesn’t seem right.

      • Bill 11.4.2

        In your view, should the same be applied to the plastic/chemical industry, the automobile industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the building industry, the paper industry, industries involved in extraction…and so on?

        And if so, are you happy enough to participate at some level in developing a replacement for the market economy that would no longer be in existence due to the effects of business and industry having to assume the full costs associated with their activities?

        Or is your thinking that only some industries and activities get “singled out” on an arbitrary or subjective basis and made to bear the full weight of costs associated with what they do?

        • crashcart 11.4.2.1

          I’m sorry are you saying the market economy can only exist if the players are subsidise by the government?

          Lets be clear. I don’t ask that farmers get treated more harshly than any business. I am not sure how you would pull that from what I said other than perhaps comparing large scale irrigation schemes to normal urban development costs. In fact I am proposing the complete opposite. They receive the same as any other business.

          At the moment it would seem difficult to me to argue that Farmers aren’t a protected class. If the weather goes bad and we have a drought tax payers come to the rescue and bail farmers out. I can’t think of too many instances of this happening for regular struggling small business. As Dr Mapp pointed out we do support in major events such as earth quakes but I honestly can’t think of a single year where farmers haven’t had to be supported through either drought, snow, disease, or any of the other unexpected influences that damage their businesses.

          I am open to being proven wrong though.

          • Bill 11.4.2.1.1

            I’m sorry are you saying…?

            Basically, yes. Costs get externalised and that leaves room to create a profit margin.

            If you want the farming industry to pick up the full cost of its business activities, then why not every other business?

            Some small businesses could (I imagine) cover their full costs and still be thrive in terms of success in a market economy. Maybe. But industry doesn’t and can’t. And that would flow on to affect the smaller “owner operator” or whatever scale of business.

            So for example. A hairdresser might quite easily account for environmental and health costs that flow from their business. But could the wider pharmaceutical, chemical and plastic industries that hairdressers rely on do that? If not, what then?

            Governments have always bailed out or subsidised at the industrial level, either directly as a matter of course (steel, automobile industry etc), indirectly by absorbing health and environmental costs, or in times of supposed emergency to “keep things going” (2008 and the banking/financial sector).

            Small businesses don’t count in the scheme of things. They can “come and go” as far as ‘economic management’ is concerned. But no expense is spared, and no price is too high to preserve the supposed integrity of the environment those small businesses “come and go” in.

            Right now, for the immediate future, and for the past 30 odd years, politicians, “the captains of industry and finance” and the high priests of economics, would have us acquiesce to the notion that the future viability of the very world we live on is a price worth paying, to ensure that “business gets done” tomorrow as it’s done today.

            I happen to think that’s mad, and so adopt the (some would say) crazy position of being a market abolitionist. 😉

            Hope that kind of explains where I was coming from in my above response to you.

            • crashcart 11.4.2.1.1.1

              Yea after re reading your comment I had sort of latched on to where you were coming from but am often a bit slow and reactionary. You are right of course. No such thing as a free and open market exists and for good reason.

              Whilst I am keen to see a new economy (perhaps a resource based economy) come along I don’t hold a lot of hope for it happening in my life time.

              Then again how many times can we ride the boom bust model that we are currently on.

          • Draco T Bastard 11.4.2.1.2

            …but I honestly can’t think of a single year where farmers haven’t had to be supported through either drought, snow, disease, or any of the other unexpected influences that damage their businesses.

            Of course, all the things we bail them out on are expected as naturally occurring events.

          • Jimmy 11.4.2.1.3

            I have farmed through drought, when drought is declared farmers are entitled to an extension on the time too pay their tax.
            Any type of business can apply for this extension if times are hard, not just farmers.
            Mental health facilities are provided.
            Farm advisors are provided in some cases.
            And that’s it, so hardly a tax payer bail out every time it snows, or a drought occurs.

            • Draco T Bastard 11.4.2.1.3.1

              https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/products/a-z-benefits/rural-assistance.html

              It’s a bit more than what everyone else gets.

              • Jimmy

                Thanks Draco, had a quick look.
                Be interesting to know how many farmers have met the criteria for payments, very few I would imagine.
                I would also disagree that it’s more than anyone else gets.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  And how many businesses get business advisers paid for by the government?
                  How many get mental health services?

                  Do unemployed?

                  I’m not against farmers being helped when necessary but I do get pissed off with them claiming these benefits while trying to deny them to others and the fact that they do seem to get more help than anyone else and often they should have planned for the event as a part of their business.

                  • Jimmy

                    I don’t think farmers try and deny others benefits.
                    I’m pretty sure mental health services are available to anyone who needs them farmer or not.
                    Seem to get more help, I think you hit the nail on the head.
                    Seem too, not actually get.
                    People like Cashcart seem to think farmers get taxpayer money every time it snows or dries out, just not true.
                    On this site I read comments about how farmers willingly pollute, cow shit in every stream, again not true.
                    Comments asking why farmers should get compensation for M.Bovis, while forgetting it’s MPI, police and government forcing the culling of the Farmers herd, it’s not a choice.
                    Comments saying farmers circumvent NAIT for monetary gain, I can’t see how that’s even possible. (Although I agree something’s not right)
                    Comments saying farmers should have insurance for all sorts of things that insurance companies don’t even offer insurance for.
                    Comments saying levy’s should be in place to get the tax payer money back for M.Bovis, when farmers have been playing disease levy for years, every time an animal is killed at the works a levy is paid, where has the money gone?
                    A bit more understanding from both sides would be good.

      • patricia bremner 11.4.3

        Crashcart well put!! 1000%

    • Stuart Munro 11.5

      “Think of me as the modern version of the gentry class”

      Nope – just another tax-evader, a temporarily unimprisoned felon.

    • james 11.6

      “I’m the 23rd post on this blog, and the 22 ahead of me show absolutely zero understanding of dairy farming”

      I think you will find a lot of people who comment on here have an inflated sense of their own knowledge as such I predict that you will be told you are wrong – despite this being what you actually do and understand.

      • saveNZ 11.6.1

        Of course just because someone says they are a dairy farmer on this site, does not mean they are actually working on the farm, rather than owning the land while working as a financial trader, for example.

        • ropata 11.6.1.1

          I’d say that most “farmers” in NZ are only in it for the capital gains. They complain about margins and operating costs but the actual value in the business is the ability to retire at 50 with $10 million

      • Robert Guyton 11.6.2

        “A lot of people who comment here have an inflated sense of their own knowledge as such I predict…” – James
        Help me, Jesus!

      • Draco T Bastard 11.6.3

        Just because he does it doesn’t mean that he understands it. In fact, I’d say that him doing it proves that he doesn’t.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.7

      So I’m a dairy farmer; as right now dairy provides easily the best return on investment and is the best use of my land bar none.

      1. It’s not your land – it’s ours. You have a lease title to it.
      2. You’re damaging our land.
      3. You need to pay for the damage that you’ve caused.

      Think of me as the modern version of the gentry class,

      I do, as a matter of fact, think of you as an absolute bludger.

    • Sabine 11.8

      ahh the landed gentry

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landed_gentry

      “Landed gentry or gentry is a largely historical British social class consisting in theory of landowners who could live entirely from rental income, or at least had a country estate. It was distinct from, and socially “below”, the aristocracy or peerage, although in fact some of the landed gentry were wealthier than some peers, and many gentry were related to peers. They often worked as administrators of their own lands, while others became public, political, religious, and armed forces figures. The decline of this privileged class largely stemmed from the 1870s agricultural depression.

      The designation “landed gentry” originally referred exclusively to members of the upper class who were landlords and also commoners in the British sense, that is, they did not hold peerages, but usage became more fluid over time. Similar or analogous social systems of landed gentry also sprang up in countries that maintained a colonial system; the term is employed in many British colonies such as the Colony of Virginia and some parts of India. By the late 19th century, the term was also applied to peers such as the Duke of Westminster who lived on landed estates. The book series Burke’s Landed Gentry recorded the members of this class. Successful burghers often used their accumulated wealth to buy country estates, with the aim of establishing themselves as landed gentry.”

      a more useless group of people never existed, and sadly they breed politicians.

    • solkta 11.9

      I’m merely a land owner so can extract value from my land to meet the market.

      This would not be true of most dairy farmers. There would not be many who have tertiary qualifications in both dairy and horticulture or have grown up gaining hands on knowledge of doing both let alone doing both within the restraints of their property’s soil types and microclimates.

      Permacuture systems are far more complex than factory farms and would require huge upskilling for most dairy farmers. There would be many not up to the task.

  12. Sabine 12

    in the meantime Forest and Bird are posting this on Facebook

    https://www.facebook.com/forestandbird/?hc_ref=ARQT4BgaGl0TdmuI_JyTiggfq-pdt9BU7kpq1miND3ZYCFCPPG2To4sJF1957N2u23w&fref=nf

    “Forest & Bird
    31 mins ·
    Want to get illegal cattle out of Mount Aspiring National Park?

    Then join us in telling the Department of Conservation to decline an application to graze a huge area of conservation land in the Haast River valley.

    This is a rare braided river ecosystem, home to vulnerable birds like the wrybill and the banded dotterel. When cattle trample nests on public conservation land, where can our birds be safe?

    In addition, inadequate fencing means cattle get into forest of the National Park.

    Submissions close 5pm this Thursday and you can just email your opinion in to chtaylor@doc.govt.nz

    so for those of you that can write nicely and such, maybe email that chtaylor@doc.govt.nz that maybe maybe grazing cows in our last reserves of left over NZ is not that grand an Idea.

    • Andrea 12.1

      I wonder why DoC would offer such a grazing right… Do we know the conditions of the offer?

      Are they choosing to allow grazing to conserve habitat from weed invasion?

      Will the cattle actually be in the area over the breeding/nesting season?

      Has anyone donated the money, labour/materials to erect the desired fencing – and maintain it in perpetuity? Plus revegetation costs. And ongoing weed/pest management? No?

      How very unsurprising.

  13. DB 13

    The 20 people before me know nothing. I am gentry!

    LOL.

  14. Milkman 14

    Talking of tax payer money being spent. How much has been pumped into Auckland motorways, tunnels etc. For once money is being spent on an industry that has been earning it for a long time. If we are to stop anything it is building houses in Auckland until at least they can sort out the pollution of beaches with raw sewage.

    • Muttonbird 14.1

      ‘Milkman’. Nice troll.

      Rural broadband must be at breaking point today.

    • saveNZ 14.2

      It might be a troll, but Milkman’s right.

      Time NZ thought about pollution in general and where it is coming from and how to stop it by doing something about it rather than just going to and fro rural pollution vs city pollution and not doing much about either because construction, transport and cows all have huge political backers on all political sides.

      • Robert Guyton 14.2.1

        Plenty’s being done about both. Both “parties” should own their pollution. Few human activities have minimal pollution outputs but some do and those should be our models. Most useful models are from the non-human world. Trees, for example, and forests, wastenotwantnot.

        • solkta 14.2.1.1

          Whangarei District Council has sorted their shit in dealing with our shit and discharges to the harbour are now a rare event (we were having 7+ a year). Northland Regional Council however has done fuck all about farm pollution and the Whangarei Falls has a permanent sign warning not to swim.

          • Robert Guyton 14.2.1.1.1

            There’s plenty also, that hasn’t been done. The most significant yet-to-be-done “thing” is a change of culture: AGRIculture: it’s a way of thinking about the world. Human manure into the harbour is due to our AGRIculture.

    • dukeofurl 14.3

      Milkman, the government money being ‘pumped’ into motorways and tunnels comes from the fuel tax being pumped into cars by motorists filling up.
      Thats is purpose

  15. Robert Guyton 15

    I am gentry, hear me roar – RoaralGuy?

    • patricia bremner 15.1

      Robert, Thanks for light relief LOL LOL.
      Next it will be “gentleman farmer”

  16. jimekus 16

    Severe Global Water Cycle Shifts from Abrupt Climate Change

    “Freshwater availability for drinking is being disrupted around Earth. Same for irrigation water relied upon to grow many crops. Soils are drying out and groundwater is being depleted much faster than it can be recharged. Alpine glacier water storage in snow and ice is collapsing, and extreme droughts in some places and torrential rains with floods in other places is accelerating. I discuss Terrestrial Water Storage (TWS) measurements from GRACE satellites, and changes around Earth from 2002 to 2016, while the satellites ran.”

    • saveNZ 16.1

      don’t worry jimekus, you can get free water to bottle in NZ and send overseas! We are such a generous country which is why we have so many ‘friends’. We even charge those in cities for water but those taking it for export, next to nothing because we have not worked out that it’s the water that is the most valuable, not the pipes. You can make the pipes but you can’t make more water, easily once it’s gone or polluted. And countries that used to have a lot of water, suddenly find, it might be gone or reducing rapidly due to climate changes. Here in NZ, we don’t like to bother to think about the future risks, she’ll be right.

  17. saveNZ 17

    Another good use for Dairy farms is sending out troubled youth or even adults to work on them. Have a young relative, got into trouble with law, got sent to a dairy farm by family in the middle of nowhere in South Island, and viola, no more crime. Hard to do crime when there is nothing around. Seriously, dairy farms are a lot more useful than prisons for someone going in the wrong direction. Same can probably be said for horticulture.

    I’d prefer to be working, getting skills and job experience and earning money, than being double bunked in overcrowded and crime filled prisons.

    • In Vino 17.1

      Maybe not such a hot policy: my experience has been that city people dumped in lonely rural places become depressed and prone to psychological problems, with possible danger of suicide.
      Mind you, as you say, it may still be better than prison. But not by much, I fear.
      Futile to expect people to like a job that they have not chosen for positive reasons. They will find reasons to dislike their situation, and want out.

      • Gabby 17.1.1

        City people aren’t that soft and pathetic are they viny?

        • In Vino 17.1.1.1

          No, Gabby – but the minority who end up dumped in a job they had never seriously considered beforehand often are very vulnerable. That is how a semi-slave-labour system works. On the vulnerable minority. The ones who have not been able to suss out a good job in the big city with their ‘mates’.

      • solkta 17.1.2

        reasons like being shat on twice a day.

        • In Vino 17.1.2.1

          Oh, come on solkta. It is only soft, mushy, not-so-stinky vegetarian shit. Not really smelly like dog or cat-shit. And one soon gets skilled at dodging it if one stays at the job, so no real problem.

          • solkta 17.1.2.1.1

            Yes you are right. It is the piss that gets through your hair and down the pores of your skin that leaves a smell worse than stale McDonalds.

            • In Vino 17.1.2.1.1.1

              So farmers should be advertising for cheap labour on the notice-boards at McDonalds? Maybe not a bad idea..

  18. adam 18

    Can I congratulate the author Ad, for creating a good post to generate real economic discussion.

    Economics, may it long take centre stage on the standard.

  19. Ed 19

    No benefit is worth this cost.

  20. mikes 20

    “Because of this outbreak, our exporters are about to face a brown wave of negative stories about our food manufacturing and food security practices,”

    – Not necessarily, considering every other food producing country in the world has the bacteria in their cattle populations (except maybe Denmark or Norway I can’t remember). Its surprising NZ hasn’t been infected majorly until now, it’s probably only the fact we are so isolated geographically which has helped us until now. Other nations could hardly give us a hard time over having an outbreak of a disease they’ve all had for years and wil have for the foreseeable future.

    I’d say we will, however, make international headlines (at least in the agriculture world) if we are the first country to be successful in eradicating it.

    “why should dairy farming exist here?”

    – Because some people noticed there was a demand for dairy products and decided to go into business producing those products for the market, just like most other businesses in most other industries. Nobody has the right to tell you what products you can or can’t produce as a business. (As long as you’re producing a legal product and meeting any health / quality regulatory requirements).

    Oherwise you may as well say “why should any business / industry exist here?” Who would decide what businesses are or aren’t allowed to exist? I’m guessing an authoritarian government?

    If an industry is causing problems for society (who decides that) then the government can regulate that industry and enforce those regulations. Prohibition is hardly ever (if ever) the answer, as history shows us.

    ” Fonterra does not need New Zealand dairy farmers”

    – Fonterra is a co-op owned by thousands of NZ farmers so not sure how you arrive at that conclusion.

    “Historically, dairy farming destroyed much of the native forests of the North Island”

    – Historically, prior to European settlement in 1840, Maori burnt around 6.7 million hectares of native forest, which was about one third of the total, contributing to the extinction of many species of native birds. After 1840, uncontrolled fires and destructive logging by European immigrants destroyed a further third of the original forest cover.

    There was 85% forestation covering NZ prior to humans arriving here.. Maori reduced that to 55% and since 1840 it has been further reduced to 23%. Most of that destruction of NZ’s native forests wasn’t due to dairy farming.

    I’m not necessarily a fan of dairy farming, but I’m definitely not a fan of the way this article is written.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1

      To an extent, I think Ad is being deliberately provocative, and still, the answer to your question “Who would decide what businesses are or aren’t allowed to exist?” is that it’s the wrong question. Businesses survive because they make a profit. One way to make a profit is to socialise your costs.

      Manufacturing milk powder is hardly a human right, after all. Sure, if you can do it without loading costs onto me, go right ahead. Otherwise my lawyer says I can sue your sorry effluent.

  21. R.P Mcmurphy 21

    the term is comparative advantage.
    how to make money doing one thing rather than another.
    the thing is the tories allowed the fake boom and it has been a disaster from start to finish.
    all ideologically driven so patrons could carve off the public assets and sell them to “the market” and mortgage everyone to the hilt.
    it all turned to custard.
    it is going to take some time to return to regulated growth and a steady state economy but that is what must happen otherwise this gem of the pacific will be stripped of everything and the environment totally depleted if the morons of morrinsville got their way.

  22. Philg 22

    I’m all for fairness. Just give the farmers a loan like a Student Loan. Pay back when they make some profit. That would please the taxpayers and Nat supporters.

  23. millsy 23

    Waghorn and Ian – the only hatred I have seen is from Farmers toward the idea of having clean rivers.

    They would foul every river and lake in this country of our if it meant a few extra dollars in their bank account. Never had I seen a bigger disregard for the health of this nation’s people. Farmers are willing to murder babies for profit.

    The ICC are making poisoning the water supply as a crime against humanity. I hope the entire leadership of Federated Farmers are hauled before the Hague one day on such charges. Their desire to launch an effective genocide campaign against the NZ people for profit by poisoning their water supply must not go unpunished.

  24. millsy 24

    I think that someone has full legal grounds to perform a citizens arrest on the Federated Farmers president for encouraging crimes against humanity in the name of profit.

  25. millsy 25

    I have just read that anyone can make a complaint to the ICC who will then investigate. Given that dairy farmers, are commiting crimes against humanity by poisoning our water, then it is time for someone to drop a letter to the prosecutor.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    23 hours ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 day ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    1 day ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    2 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    2 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    2 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    3 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    3 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    3 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    3 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    3 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    3 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    4 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    4 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    5 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    5 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    5 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    5 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    5 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    5 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago