Key shows how much he really cares about security

89 comments on “Key shows how much he really cares about security ”

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1. Roflcopter 1

   2 August 2013 at 9:48 am

   1) You can’t arrrest them overseas, and even when they come back they can’t be arrested unless they do something wrong here.

   2) The left still haven’t stated what those “additional powers” are. The reality is they’re fixing up the crap ones (created by Labour), that caused the whole blow-out in the first place.

   3) What additional spy powers? GCSB don’t get to do anything more than they do already, it’s just a lot clearer about the boundaries they operate in… those boundaries have not shifted.

   4) No.

   5) Your question 3) is why they’d breach security saying something, and yet you want them to divulge in 5)?

   6) See 5)

   7) Quite possibly, but nowhere near as bad as Labour and the Greens.
   • BM 1.1

     2 August 2013 at 9:51 am

     This, it’s a complete pile of shit and demonstrates to me the only thing labour is interested in is gaining power at any cost.

     Irresponsible wankers.
     • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

       2 August 2013 at 10:03 am

       Key just let on that the intelligence services know of these NZers training in terrorist camps. He leaked what could only be classified sensitive information.

       Now, that’s being an “irresponsible wanker”.
     • gobsmacked 1.1.2

       2 August 2013 at 11:04 am

       Anyone care to guess at the response from Rofl and BM if somebody like Keith Locke said …

       “Yes, we know they’re Al-Qaeda but we mustn’t arrest them because they haven’t done anything wrong”.

       Pick any combination of –

       Bloody PC liberals traitors wet bus ticket Pol Pot water melon scum etc
       • Sable 1.1.2.1

         2 August 2013 at 11:12 am

         Good one gobsmacked. BM and co would be snarling and gnawing on your ankle in no time.
     • Sable 1.1.3

       2 August 2013 at 11:10 am

       Talk about the pot calling the kettle black BM.
   • Colonial Viper 1.2

     2 August 2013 at 10:04 am

     1) You can’t arrrest them overseas, and even when they come back they can’t be arrested unless they do something wrong here.

     Totally untrue. Under the Terrorism Suppression Act if these individuals have communicated, organised support for or arranged training with known terrorist organisations while they were in NZ, they can be done.

     Basically, you are full of shit.
     • Granted 1.2.1

       2 August 2013 at 1:48 pm

       And look how easy that is to do – such as the group down the east coast.
   • Lightly 1.3

     2 August 2013 at 10:18 am

     1) Yes you can.

     2) and 3) if you don’t believe there’s additional powers, you’re ignoring the Law Society, Internet NZ, and the Human Rights Commission But, they’re just crazy lefties, eh?

     4) compelling argument

     5) and 6) lolz. so it’s OK for Key to say whatever he wants and not back it up?

     7) high standards
   • karol 1.4

     2 August 2013 at 11:12 am

     Extended powers: partly doing what they had previously been doing illegally: including for a start,

     Spying on New Zealand citizens and residents (as part of the Echelon network – that is, working in the interests of the US, even when it is not in the interests of NZers, and providing access by foreign agencies to NZers metadata, enabling targeting of full content of selected digital records).

     Surveillance for purposes of “economic security” (that is working for corporates, linked with the TPP and intellectual property issues).

     Linking it with the SIS and criminal justice system, all under the PM’s control with limited extra oversight – gives increased power to the PM.
   • muzza 1.5

     2 August 2013 at 12:07 pm

     ROLF/BM,

     Does it feel really nice inside being this nonsensical? really, take a good hard look at yourselves, and your motives, issues like this are too serious to enagage in your silly games!
   • Jenny 1.6

     3 August 2013 at 4:59 am

     You can’t arrrest them overseas, and even when they come back they can’t be arrested unless they do something wrong here.

     Roflcopter

     Talk about being soft on Terror.

     So suddenly, Soft on Terror Right Wingers can’t bring themselves to arrest terrorists at large in NZ after returning from terrorist training camps in Yemen?
     (Something they had no problems with in the Ururewa with even less alleged cause. What was the explanation then? “We have to act before they do, do something.” What did leading police officers say? “The public would never forgive us is something did occur and we had not acted” Blah, blah, blah.).

     If he feels he can’t bring himself to arrest these “terrorists”. There is nothing stopping John Key from acting to name and shame them. It is the very least he could do.

     What is he worried about?

     Is he worried that these “terrorists” might sue you him for defamation?

     That in fact they aren’t terrorists at all?

     If they were really terrorists, (which I doubt). If we all knew who they were. These “terrorists” would be so constrained as to be unable to act or go anywhere without being recognised.

     Probably the worst thing about John Key raising these fear mongering allegations of terrorists being at large in New Zealand without naming them. Is that he is putting many innocent Islamic and Middle Eastern residents and citizens in this country under a cloud of suspicion.

     Come on John Key stop protecting terrorists in our midst. Name Them!
   • democracy 1.7

     6 August 2013 at 11:18 pm

     Your so right the page is turning blue Rofl
2. mickysavage 2

   2 August 2013 at 9:50 am

   The stupidity of Key’s statement is that he is using justification for the existence of the State’s security apparatus as justification for the state’s powers to be increased dramatically …
   • Bob 2.1

     2 August 2013 at 1:38 pm

     mickysavage, you are getting the GCSB bill, and the TICS bill confused
3. Mary 3

   2 August 2013 at 9:50 am

   Your points 3, 4 and 7 are signs that Key’s become a desperate man. The opposition need to seize the moment.
   • SpaceMonkey 3.1

     2 August 2013 at 6:16 pm

     Indeed! But that moment will be lost if it’s Labour-led and we can’t expect the pollies to lead us on this anyway.

     What’s going to change this is people simply making it THE issue. Not just about the GCSB and TICS bills, and others, they are symptoms highlighting a much more fundamental issue. Those bills should be killed in the process of re-evaluating our individual and collective values and ideals, how we choose to be defined by them, and how we want to re-structure our government – top to bottom.

     Do we need a hierarchy at all? Technically we don’t… we have representatives… but you wouldn’t know it. Do we want a Government that listens to the people or one that can co-opt executive for itself and whomsoever it wishes to bestow grace ($$$) upon? How do you deal with situations where 15 months until the next election(?) might be TOO long a time.. a lot can happen…

     Do we want to allow ourselves to be “governed” under some fear-based construct where any person walking past or working beside us could be a terrorist, or worse… a beneficiary in disguise? So we give away some of our freedoms for some imaginary sense of security from something that statistically is much more likely to happen to you outside of NZ than in it? Or, eventually, with the kind of technology that is being demonstrated today, where the concept of a “thought crime” or “pre-crime” is very possible? Worse still, you were dobbed in by your neighbour but you never really knew them anyway. You never spoke because… well… who cares… what’s on tv? I don’t want that…

     African-American civil rights wasn’t an issue on any American political party’s agenda in the 1950’s & 60’s, but the movement by the people made it happen so that it couldn’t be ignored. We already have constitutional reform on our minds, at the last election we were asked our thoughts on MMP, we’re still in that head-space…

     All this crap John Key is pulling with his complete disregard for every facet of our constitution, rights, governmental system and process, etc. is shining a spotlight on the problem, fermenting discontent, and creating resistance all at the same time.
     • rob 3.1.1

       2 August 2013 at 11:08 pm

       One issue with Key is the amount of time he spent living in other
       countries while he formed his development
       He doesn’t resonate with many of our core values
       We generally do not respect those who tell porkies!
       • Populuxe1 3.1.1.1

         3 August 2013 at 9:24 pm

         And if he wasn’t white, that would make you a racist bigot.
         • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.1

           6 August 2013 at 11:32 pm

           And if you had anything but irrelevant hypotheticals, I would be flummoxed.
     • Mike S 3.1.2

       3 August 2013 at 1:00 am

       The problem is that unless the MSM starts really nailing Key on these things, he has probably helped his cause and he (or his handlers) know(s) it. Because sadly, a great many Kiwis will have heard him say “blah….blah….al qaeda….blah…blah…” and won’t even stop to think before agreeing with Key and supporting the spy bill. Many others may hear arguments against Key but will continue down their paths of complete cognitive dissonance for fear of having their apathetic little world thrown into disarray.
       • Mary 3.1.2.1

         3 August 2013 at 10:45 am

         This whole shambles reminds me of end of the world disaster movies where government officials rally around to protect the President, thinking nothing of sacrificing their own lives to make sure the nation has a leader. The only difference here is that Key’s responsible for the disaster yet the underlings still want to protect him. Hopefully someone will see sense soon.
4. geoff 4

   2 August 2013 at 9:59 am

   Yesterday, on More FM of all places

   That’s the perfect place for spreading his crap. Lost of apolitical listeners who will thoughtlessly regurgitate whatever he says.
   • tc 4.1

     2 August 2013 at 10:15 am

     +1 it’s a dog whistle diversionary tactic straight from the CT playbook showing up on their favourite soapbox network….mediawonks.

     We pay him to be the PM yet he never seems to sit in the house on thursdays, nice work if you can get it.
   • North 4.2

     2 August 2013 at 4:22 pm

     Isn’t More FM where the big wanker tries to act like one of the boys, one of the jocks, and goes around calling everyone “munter” ?

     Embarassment !
5. amirite 5

   2 August 2013 at 10:08 am

   Key, making shit up again. What’s new?
   • Arfamo 5.1

     2 August 2013 at 7:33 pm

     What’s new is it’s getting so absurd now even the tv camera operators are struggling to stifle their sniggers.
6. mac1 6

   2 August 2013 at 10:13 am

   Considering the tried and tested techniques of authoritarian governments, having played the beneficiary bashing, bludger, xenophobic, racist and ‘enemy within’/terrorism fear cards, what’s left?

   I would have said “Watch out Fiji” as a good little war really does help quell internal dissent, but according to a rather good speech by Goff in the Defence estimates we don’t have the capability since turnover is at 20% per annum. It takes fourteen years to develop the skills of the army’s backbone, the warrant officer/NCO class, and they’re leaving in unprecedented numbers.

   What else? Ooooh, attack the media, attack dissenters with harsh penalties if any one dares blow whistles or criticise the government. Put on distracting national sports spectacles (not the Raybon variety).

   Attack teachers and dumb down schools with untrained staff and useless compliance with stupid standards based on safe curriculum.

   Fire up patriotism and hands over hearts flag waving ceremonies, compulsory prayers and daily anthem singing.

   Provide more entertainment on TV, in theatres and sports arenas, especially that which promotes the use of strong state power to deal with the baddies.

   Use the politics of fear in media news, public pronouncements and in our institutions. Increase security at airports, crowd events and increase police numbers even though demographics indicate that crime is decreasing through fewer young people.

   Continue to de-unionise the work force and weaken the unions.

   Introduce military training for youth.

   Monitor people’s mail, electronic information transfer and phones.

   Stage theatrical events which reinforce internal/external events.

   Use Parliamentary procedures to hamper opposition to proposed laws.

   Use natural events or the threat of same to increase state powers.

   How many of these are already being used? I used to be comfortable with reasonably strong state power because I could trust my internal instincts that this would not be abused by a benevolent elected government in good old free and easy, fairness loving, practical and egalitarian New Zealand.

   Maybe it’s my week-long cold and grumpy people around me, maybe it’s daily shake-ups in central NZ of the seismic sort, maybe it’s winter and the news is of global climate change and conflict………

   I know I’d feel better if the opposites to what I’ve outlined above were being practised but I don’t see it happening at the national level.
   • vto 6.1

     2 August 2013 at 10:19 am

     The lure of unbridled P O W E R is too intoxicating. Parliament has too much power. The government has too much power. It is being demonstrated yet again that people cannot be trusted with this amount of concentrated power.

     The only solution is to push the power back to the people and remove it from Parliament and the government. Spread the power far and wide. Dilute it.

     There is no other way – it the way of human nature to get drunk on power and then abuse it. Can’t change human nature, so change the system.

     Power to the people!
     • Sable 6.1.1

       2 August 2013 at 11:05 am

       +1 Absolutely agree.
     • Colonial Viper 6.1.2

       2 August 2013 at 12:18 pm

       The only solution is to push the power back to the people and remove it from Parliament and the government. Spread the power far and wide. Dilute it.

       Local democracy, plus citizens recall powers over Wellington politicians and legislation.
     • Granted 6.1.3

       2 August 2013 at 1:52 pm

       Power back to the people? Which people in particular and how do they exercise that power? Or merely de-power the govt?

       Yet in the same breath we criticise our police and other agencies for not doing an effective job – they often need good information to do a good job.

       Its the balance that many will never agree on.
       • Colonial Viper 6.1.3.1

         2 August 2013 at 1:55 pm

         You need good information? Get a judicial warrant, and have the people who obtain and analyse that information subject to parliamentary, judicial and criminal oversight.

         This is not a fucking problem of “balance”. That is, IF you believe in democracy and the limitation of state power over ordinary citizens, as opposed to an authoritarian surveillance state.
         • Granted 6.1.3.1.1

           2 August 2013 at 4:33 pm

           So one minute you want power to the people then next comment you want Government oversight.

           Make your mind up
           • Colonial Viper 6.1.3.1.1.1

             3 August 2013 at 9:45 pm

             There’s nothing contradictory about the two, fool. Because true democratic government is of the people, and for the people.
     • Puddleglum 6.1.4

       3 August 2013 at 9:44 pm

       “ As long as politics is the shadow cast on society by big business, the attenuation of the shadow will not change the substance. ”

       John Dewey
   • notwoniceuh 6.2

     2 August 2013 at 11:25 am

     While I agree with what your saying in general, I sincerely doubt that New Zealand’s defence force even in its prime would last more than a day on the ground in Fiji
     • cnrjoe 6.2.1

       2 August 2013 at 11:48 am

       Turns out its the queens defence force – not ours – young master trotter has it here:

       http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/29/no-friend-of-democracy-to-whom-is-the-nzdf-answerable/
     • mac1 6.2.2

       2 August 2013 at 12:06 pm

       Agreed, which is one reason we didn’t go there in the 80’s. But my real point was that, a la Thatcher in the Falklands, a wee war against an enemy would act as a great distraction, patriotic gathering point and boon to military suppliers. Not all of our military involvements have been honourable, after all.
     • Granted 6.2.3

       2 August 2013 at 1:53 pm

       They would enjoy the resorts around Denarau!!
   • notwoniceuh 6.3

     2 August 2013 at 11:25 am

     While I agree with what your saying in general, I sincerely doubt that New Zealand’s defence force even in its prime would last more than a day on the ground in Fiji
7. Old Ted 7

   2 August 2013 at 10:30 am

   John Key will say ANYTHING to push through what his mates in the US want. He lies, lies, and lies some more.

   http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/01/nsa-paid-gchq-spying-edward-snowden
8. joe90 8

   2 August 2013 at 10:47 am

   Pat Leahy, chair of the US judiciary committee, has called bullshit on claims that the NSA program has thwarted least 54 terrorist attacks.

   “If this program is not effective, it has to end,” the Vermont Democrat said of the phone record collection program under Section 215 of the Patriot Act.
   He noted that classified details provided by the NSA on how the initiative had been used do not “reflect dozens or even several terrorist plots” that it helped prevent “let alone 54 as some have suggested.”

   http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/31/politics/nsa-surveillance/index.html
   • muzza 8.1

     2 August 2013 at 12:12 pm

     Are they referring the jobs, which were set up, then thawted by the CIA/FBI etc. You know, the busts with the open explanations of having used, double agents and such like.

     Take a look into it, many MSM articles about such, so called <thawting!
     • Colonial Viper 8.1.1

       2 August 2013 at 12:21 pm

       Agreed. Greenwald has stated that FBI double agents actively recruited and funded disaffected Muslim youths (usually picking ones of lower intelligence), helped them plan and resource specific attacks, and then *just in the nick of time* swooped in to disrupt the “terrorist attack”. Terrorist plot foiled! Attack disrupted! Job well done.
       • vto 8.1.1.1

         2 August 2013 at 12:41 pm

         link?
         • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.1

           2 August 2013 at 2:01 pm

           http://www.salon.com/2011/09/29/fbi_terror/
           • vto 8.1.1.1.1.1

             2 August 2013 at 2:07 pm

             Is that credible? I mean, this sort of scam by the US government has been common throughout history, but who are these salon.com people? Is it hard evidence? And if so, why is it not front page news?
             • Colonial Viper …

               2 August 2013 at 2:11 pm

               it’s frikkin Salon for goodness sakes

               https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_%28website%29#History

               https://www.quantcast.com/salon.com

               And if so, why is it not front page news?

               Same reason that lot of information doesn’t get published in the US MSM: it would make the elite owners and powerbrokers unhappy.
         • joe90 8.1.1.1.2

           2 August 2013 at 2:19 pm

           Material assistance by the FBI – bombs and shit.

           http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/02/how-the-fbi-helps-terrorists-succeed/273537/

           http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/terrorist-plots-helped-along-by-the-fbi.html?_r=4&pagewanted=all&amp;

           http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/man-arrested-over-us-terror-bomb-plot-20121018-27s8r.html
           • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.2.1

             2 August 2013 at 2:24 pm

             ahhh thanks for those too

             the sheeple all seem happy to feed their way full to the slaughter house
           • joe90 8.1.1.1.2.2

             2 August 2013 at 2:32 pm

             And quite separate from Leahy calling Alexander on his claim that through their data collection the NSA has detected at least 54 plots.
9. Sable 9

   2 August 2013 at 11:04 am

   Yet more tripe and onions from the country’ leading bullshit merchant John Keys….
10. Skinny 10

    2 August 2013 at 11:39 am

    My son who is a photographic reporter and his German girl friend are on an OE traveling around parts of the Middle East, India & Pakistan. I’ve seen photo’s of them camping with locals in the desert. Thank goodness they have flown out bound for Germany where civil liberties-spying laws are sacrosanct after the Third Reich regime.  
    It wouldn’t be a great time to be returning to New Zealand right now from the Middle East part of the world. Keys scaremongering (after reading 
    some posts on Facebook people actually believe him) may have my boys Kiwi neighbors paranoid they are Al Qaeda operatives. A desperate National Government will be looking to stitch up any poor innocent fresh off a plane.
    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      2 August 2013 at 12:22 pm

      If we can stitch up a few Maori separatist activists for terrorist activities, that would be good too. Oh, shit, that’s already been done.
11. Short Plank 11

    2 August 2013 at 11:45 am

    I heard the vague allegation that there are New Zealanders in Al-Qaeda training camps made by someone on Morning Report this am. Can’t say my blood ran cold at the prospect.

    ‘Al-Qaeda’ is, of course, the current dog-whistle used by TPTB to scare us into compliance – you could quite comfortably substitute “witch” with “Al-Qaeda” in this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

    Even if there are New Zealanders being trained by Al-Qaeda is there any evidence it is so they can return to New Zealand to wage terrorism on the good folk of Tawa and Hamilton? In fact it’s most likely that they’ll be sent to Syria to fight the Assad regime where, of course, Al-Qaeda is being armed and supported by – the CIA.
    • SpaceMonkey 11.1

      2 August 2013 at 6:22 pm

      +1
      • BrucetheMoose 11.1.1

        2 August 2013 at 10:45 pm

        What, Al-Qaeda training camps in NZ? And I wasted all my holidays in those boring Christian versions singing happy songs and playing cooperative games. Running about in tea towels with plastic AK 47s would have been far more exciting. I do wish Johnny would be more forthcoming with these things.
12. Colonial Viper 12

    2 August 2013 at 12:24 pm

    Keep an eye out for a “false flag” incident…
    • joe90 12.1

      2 August 2013 at 2:22 pm

      ooh, naughty..
      • Colonial Viper 12.1.1

        2 August 2013 at 2:28 pm

        if people aren’t buying the sales pitch, you simply gotta make the deal irresistable…
        • mac1 12.1.1.1

          2 August 2013 at 2:56 pm

          Exactly, CV. I thought I had mentioned the idea of false flags in my original comment when I talked about ‘staging theatrical events”. Of course that reads more like the style of Nuremberg rallies and patriotic events rather than what I had in my mind which was the ‘casus belli’ of the German’s invasion of Poland using a staged ‘attack’ on a border installation, or the Tonkin Bay ‘incident’ that gave the US its ‘mandate’ in Vietnam, or the incident outlined below by travellerev.

          Was, for example, the attack on the National Party website a ‘false flag’ event?
          • Mike S 12.1.1.1.1

            3 August 2013 at 1:22 am

            “Was, for example, the attack on the National Party website a ‘false flag’ event?”

            More than likely. It was an absolute gift to National, just when they were faltering a little in public opinion, Bill English then casually mentioned in a TV interview that “If these people had attacked the IRD or WINZ it could badly affect many Kiwis”

            Anonymous usually goes after much higher value and way more difficult targets that those supposedly hacked in this case.

            It’s the old ‘problem – reaction – solution’ method of gaining public support.
          • BLiP 12.1.1.1.2

            3 August 2013 at 1:40 am

            Was, for example, the attack on the National Party website a ‘false flag’ event?

            Of course it was. As well as providing a distraction in delivering the public an “enemy”, National Ltd™ also boosted internet visits to various National Ltd™ sites. None of the sites were taken down and none claimed by any Anon. If an attempted DDOS did go ahead, show me the server logs. The other thing to bear in mind is that taking down those sorts of websites is for the script-kiddies. Anonymous would have taken down Parliamentary Services.
            • McFlock 12.1.1.1.2.1

              3 August 2013 at 1:47 am

              could have been a useful idiot. A script-kiddie after attention.

              But the powder thing is just weird, both in location-of-origin and targets. Possibly one chap then a copycat, but even so – weird.
              • Colonial Viper …

                3 August 2013 at 5:45 am

                If it was a script kiddie after attention, their hack signature and motto would have been plastered all over the site home pages when you tried to load them.
                • McFlock …

                  3 August 2013 at 3:48 pm

                  lol
    • SpaceMonkey 12.2

      2 August 2013 at 6:21 pm

      Like white powder…? Oh… been done too…
13. travellerev 13

    2 August 2013 at 12:39 pm

    In all of this you have to wonder who his legal advisers are don’t you? But then of course Tony Blair was adviced the war Iraq was illegal and he had some dodgy dossiers fabricated and England went to war anyway
14. tricledrown 14

    2 August 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Babbling Marauder BM 1.1
15. amirite 15

    2 August 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Paul Buchanan ripping into John Key on Radio Live right now. Says the GCSB bill has nothing to do with the so called terrorism threat.
16. marty mars 16

    2 August 2013 at 4:11 pm

    I think the points about,

    ” 1) why haven’t they been arrested? Being a member of or providing aid to a terrorist organisation is illegal, 3) why is the PM breaching security and jeopardising the spying on these people? and 4) given that Prime Ministers routinely refuse to discuss intelligence and security matters, isn’t casually informing any Al Qaeda members in New Zealand that the spooks are on to them an extraordinarily stupid thing to do for the sake of scoring a political point against the Greens?”

    , are very important.

    The Prime Minister says he has information of illegal activity and by announcing the line he has informed any likely person performing that illegal activity that they are being watched and the authorities know who they are – whereby the person or persons takes evasive action because they are pretty paranoid anyway – the form of that evasive action is totally keys responsibility. This is gross incompetency by the PM, at the least. That’s assuming it is not just a big lie – which would imply that the raising of fear within the populace, creating suspicion between people, all just for political gain? key has proven himself a liar in the past and he has tried this tactic before – the GCSB must be a very big deal for him if that is where he has gone. Either way, terrible gross incompetence that surely by now must be penetrating the consciousnesses of the ‘middle’.

    I wouldn’t rule out some incident in the near future where some ‘likely’ suspects are caught.
17. tracey 17

    2 August 2013 at 4:17 pm

    I thought he would never divulge security info or did he mean unless he cld gain political advantage
18. Mary 18

    2 August 2013 at 5:43 pm

    On Stuff it says Parliamentary Service gave the emails to the Henry Inquiry by mistake and that within an hour they were recalled and deleted. But Kibble white also says that they weren’t opened (and presumably not read) because they couldn’t be opened by the DPMC server. Does this mean that if the PM’s office could have opened them they would’ve read them? I thought the PM said they knew straight away not to open or read them because they weren’t allowed to, didn’t have permission and in any case were either not requested or requested in error? Now they’re saying they actually tried to open them?

    Then it appears Kibblewhite’s saying he went through the emails and also that he talked to Henry and then to Eagleson about whether the emails could be released! How can this be when in the same breathe he said they shouldn’t have been requested, that they were destroyed “within an hour” of receiving” them and that they had tried to open them but failed because they had a bit of trouble with the server. They can’t even lie coherently.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8996411/Emails-given-to-inquiry
    • Jenny 18.1

      3 August 2013 at 4:15 am

      +1
19. UglyTruth 19

    2 August 2013 at 11:30 pm

    John Key casually mentioned that there are Al Qaeda-linked Kiwis in the country and in Yemen.

    Um, exactly how stupid is his target audience, anyway?

    “If we reported the building had collapsed before it had done so, it would have been an error – no more than that.” ~ BBC, explaining how they reported the collapse of WTC7 about 23 minutes before it actually happened.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/02/part_of_the_conspiracy.html

    Foreknowledge of a building collapse is hardly an error, although broadcasting such foreknowledge could certainly have been one from the BBC’s point of view.

    http://www.wtc7.net/bbc.html
    • srylands 19.1

      3 August 2013 at 12:38 am

      Good grief a real life NZ 911 conspiracy nut.

      http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/6118/did-the-bbc-report-on-the-twin-towers-falling-before-they-actually-happened

      What the PM said was fairly reasonable.

      BTW all the GCSB Bill does is make legal what has been happening. It affects about 8 hard core threats per year. The police and SIS can already snoop – now they can get GCSB to do it for them. A productivity gain! and NZ needs all the productivity gains we can get – otherwise we will never be able to afford a living wage.
      • McFlock 19.1.1

        3 August 2013 at 12:58 am

        oh, you’re still new.
        Most commenters have one or two topics where perspective goes beyond “a different point of view” and approaches (or even collides with and bursts through) the limits of “conceivable rationality”. Don’t talk to me about hippies or cyclists, for example – I need to take fifteen rewrites to remove the Cartman from each comment I make.

        A few commenters have the opposite problem – they can talk about one or two topics reasonably, but only one or two.

        And then we have “court of the hundred” Ugly Truth.
        • UglyTruth 19.1.1.1

          3 August 2013 at 8:41 am

          Do you have the ability to talk reasonably about the nature of al-Qaeda, McFlock?

          If so, then you should have a reasonable response to the question of how the BBC could have had foreknowledge of the collapse of WTC7.
          • McFlock 19.1.1.1.1

            3 August 2013 at 3:44 pm

            The Court of the Hundred predicted it and told the BBC.
      • Colonial Viper 19.1.2

        3 August 2013 at 5:42 am

        Interesting. Please tell us how more snooping and spying on New Zealanders will lead to higher incomes for ordinary workers.
      • UglyTruth 19.1.3

        3 August 2013 at 8:25 am

        Good grief a real life NZ 911 conspiracy nut.

        Well, you could always revert to name-calling to divert attention away from the fact that you do not have an answer to the problem of how the BBC had foreknowledge of the collapse of WTC7.
        • Populuxe1 19.1.3.1

          3 August 2013 at 9:34 pm

          Meh. Reporters had already been briefed by the authorities that WTC had been damaged and was going to collapse. By the time the report reached the reporter at the BBC, it may have simply been miscommunicated from “About to collapse” to “Has collapsed”. The reporter even starts out by saying “Details are very, very sketchy”. That alone should put this to rest. She didn’t say ‘Sketchy’. She didn’t say ‘very sketchy’. She said “very, very sketchy”. Please stop talking crap.
          • Colonial Viper 19.1.3.1.1

            3 August 2013 at 9:41 pm

            Wow. Someone could tell that WTC7 was going to collapse by the way it looked? Who, and most importantly, HOW?
            • Pascal's bookie 19.1.3.1.1.1

              3 August 2013 at 9:46 pm

              Jeez Vip.

              The fact that the fire commander had pulled their team out of WTC7 for precisely that reason is pretty old news that has been gone over on the Standard more than once mate.
      • Murray Olsen 19.1.4

        3 August 2013 at 8:48 pm

        Sorryhands, you could contribute to a great gain in productivity by going and doing some work rather than trotting out excuses here on behalf of NAct. If making legal something that is already happening is a good reason to do anything, what would have been an appropriate response to the Rotorua Police Rape squad uncovered a few years back? Cops were raping young women anyway, why not make it legal? Or the cop caught selling P? How about a law passed under urgency for that one?
20. Jenny 20

    3 August 2013 at 4:16 am

    Talk about flat footed.

    Here was David Shearer’s chance to skewer John Key but he refused to do it.

    No wonder Labour are down in the polls.

    The Labour Leader who might be privy to information about whether whether John Key is lying or not. Refuses to say.

    Labour leader David Shearer would not confirm whether he had been briefed about an al-Qaeda presence in New Zealand,…..

    Rebecca Quillam, Claire Trevett NZ Herald

    A simple question. It deserves a simple answer.

    What’s with this David Shearer?

    Why is he protecting John Key’ credibility?

    Depending on what he had or had not been told in briefings, the number of possible options that David Shearer could give to this question, taking into account security matters, are limited.

    No, I have not been briefed on this matter.

    Yes, I have been briefed on this matter, and can tell the public that the Prime Minister is lying/exaggerating.

    Yes, I have been briefed on this matter and can confirm to the public that security services believe that there are New Zealand Al Qaeda operatives operating in this country and training in Yemen.

    David Shearer explained his refusal to answer the question, saying his talks with the security services are in confidence and he would not break that.

    Shearer’s excuse for not answering the question, is so weak, as to be no excuse at all.

    None of the three possible answers breach national security. (Though they might breach National’s security)

    If David Shearer has been briefed by the security services, that there are Al Qaeda operatives at large in New Zealand, he would not be revealing something that the Prime Minister has not already publicly divulged.

    So why can’t he answer the question?

    The only other possible reason apart from national security is, that David Shearer can’t answer. He is incapable of answering.

    This inability to answer even simple questions under pressure, will prove to be disastrous if David Shearer is ever to go head to head in an election debate with John Key.
21. Termografering 21

    3 August 2013 at 4:54 am

    Your blog is a Beautiful light filled our home, and Absolutely lovely 🙂
22. remo 22

    3 August 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Public awareness of the DEEP STATE and the unfolding history of False Flag attacks as tool of power would illuminate jonkey’s use of fear in this regard. The ‘outing’ of US/NATO operation GLADIO (b) tactics in particular.( ‘boilingfrogspost.com.GLADIO.b) Also P2OG, both reported running out of Pentagon right now would be good place for Campbell live to start. GLADIO existed from WWII, reported ending its central European ‘function’ after Bologna railway station bombing in 1980 where NATO/US/GLADIO operatives murdered 85 innocent people in a bomb attack blamed on ‘communists’ who just happened to be making progress through the democratic process.
    GLADIO b has been reported by the great whistleblower Sibel EDMONDS alive and active in ME and Eurasia thru GULAN and, given Gulan has his ‘schools’ across USA, likely active there as well. actually anywhere USAID CIA etal walk the earth. There is a powerful connection between the Boston Marathon Bombing and leading Gladio CIA operative Graham FULLER.
    P2OG formed after the 911 deception by the odious Rumsfeld.This is a ‘homegrown’ terror tactic designed to create acts of terror to illicit response..Identify the response and take it out.
    If PM is ‘warning’ AQ exist in-country, watch for an ‘exercise’ that may go rogue.

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