Key’s 4th term – something doesn’t add up

145 comments on “Key’s 4th term – something doesn’t add up ”

• Comments are now closed

1. tc 1

   6 December 2016 at 6:57 am

   If there is such a book and it contains material on shonky’s involvement in [NW: let’s just be extra cautious here] that would be very explosive.

   Supporters of him would be forced to re evaluate their idol if they were aware of the lengths and depths he plumbs to hold onto power.

   Hager probably has similar material from blubber boy but not being relevant to his DP tome didn’t use it.
   • Cemetery Jones 1.1

     6 December 2016 at 9:03 am

     I don’t buy the book theory. If a book was going to do it, that book would have been Dirty Politics. It may be a book happens to be coming out which will criticise him, but positioning that as his reason for resignation seems like an exercise in wishful thinking. IMO it would take little short of video footage of satanic rituals or worse to move that needle southward.
     • shorts 1.1.1

       6 December 2016 at 9:40 am

       no book will ever sway the NZ public nor media over Key – they eased past dirty politics as you say

       bombers an idiot
       • WILD KATIPO 1.1.1.1

         6 December 2016 at 2:02 pm

         According to Winston Peters , – it has to do with ‘ administration and accountability issues’ , which will be coming out in the following ‘ weeks and months ‘.

         I hope Peters is spot on.

         If anything to see you sycophantic deniers writhe and squirm.
         • Cemetery Jones 1.1.1.1.1

           6 December 2016 at 2:30 pm

           Wait, you think I’m a Key fan because I know that a book won’t discourage that sector of the public who are under his spell? Fuck me, the standard of reading comprehension these days…
           • WILD KATIPO 1.1.1.1.1.1

             6 December 2016 at 3:34 pm

             The above wasn’t directed at you , if you had bothered to realize and take notice, and… yes ,.. books can and do topple administrations.

             And provide the impetus to convict individuals.

             Get off your high horse.
             • Cemetery Jones …

               6 December 2016 at 4:10 pm

               You said “deniers”. Given that this could in no way include tc’s post, you seem to have clearly lumped me in with shorts. Don’t be so damn hair triggered.

               Books can probably topple administrations somewhere, but not here, and quite clearly not Key. Perhaps his successor – but Clark in 2002 and Key in 2014 both smashed it in the elections where Hager ambushed them with books which contained some pretty damning stuff on them. I stand by my comment: video footage of satanic rituals or expect enduring public adulation, even now the puffy little nutsack has left the building.

               I would indeed like to see him in court for one of his many wrongdoings, but I keep my wishful thinking in check.
2. Ross 2

   6 December 2016 at 7:17 am

   I agree that something doesn’t add up. He says he doesn’t want to mislead the public by possibly winning a 4th term and then quitting. That is odd because he has misled the public by quitting during his third term!

   Then of course there are the many broken promises and lies from him, so misleading the public shouldn’t be an issue. He has such an aversion to the truth that we may never know the reason for his sudden departure, but I doubt we have heard it.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.1

     6 December 2016 at 9:58 am

     +1
3. Phaedrus 3

   6 December 2016 at 7:32 am

   The answer could be much simpler than that. His reading of the electoral tea leaves could telling him that the chances of National winning next year are not good and so he’s getting out to avoid having ‘loser’ on his CV. Look at all the positive comments he is getting now, which he wouldn’t get if he stood down after an election loss. On a much less substantive level, I also suspect that a knighthood is the last thing on his NZ politics bucket list, and the only way he can be sure of that is to resign while the National Party is still in government. While Labour has not said anything about their policy towards Royal honours next time they are in govt, there has to be some likelihood that they will revert back to the policy of the Clark years and do away with Royal honours.
   • Leftie 3.1

     6 December 2016 at 8:30 am

     “His reading of the electoral tea leaves could telling him that the chances of National winning next year are not good and so he’s getting out to avoid having ‘loser’ on his CV.” +1 Phaedrus, made crystal clear after getting thoroughly thrashed in the Roskill by election.
     • mosa 3.1.1

       6 December 2016 at 11:50 am

       Leftie is still think that had he contested a fourth term he would have won it.

       He was protected by a compliant media and has this incredible god like status invented to make him saleable and people who love an idol to put on a pedestal and want to ignore his obvious failures kept voting for him.

       Sure there is the ready made housing wealth and no harsh interest rate pain to endure and that could end at any time and if it continues another year or so it would have given him the constituency support he has built on the back of that.

       The left vote still has not galvanised behind Labour yet despite some excellent work in Mt Roskill, a symptom of the MSM and its influence with public opinion.

       This has never happened in this country before and the strategy has been working for eight years, that and keeping Labours family package which has been critical.

       He has not had the concentrated campaign to destabilise his leadership that Helen endured in that last couple years that was nasty and un warranted, and despite some of his outrageous deceptions ,cover ups and anti democratic behaviour that quite honestly would have sunk a Labour PM by this time in the electoral cycle and quite possibly a Labour government.
   • Matthew Whitehead 3.2

     6 December 2016 at 2:24 pm

     The Nat’s internals would needed to have told him a hugely different story to public polling, as he’s been in a statistical tie between forming a government easily and forming one if he can sell NZ First on the idea. In fact polling had just jumped up recently, so if he were retiring because he thought the election would go poorly, his timing was very wrong.

     If there’s no controversy to be had, then there are two possible reasons:
     1) He wanted to “go out strong.” Achieving three terms and being around to guide the party into the following election is a pretty good way to do that.
     2) He was serious when he said he was quitting for family reasons, and it’s that the personal costs have started adding up a bit more this year than they did previously.

     I’m inclined to say we should have a bit more evidence for suspicion before we run around saying that something’s definitely off with his resignation. If there was a damning book coming, resigning doesn’t necessarily shield his party, just dulls the blow a little bit.
4. Stunned Mullet 4

   6 December 2016 at 7:38 am

   Bradbury’s book …LOL
   • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1

     6 December 2016 at 7:43 am

     My reaction too. If he has a story that he can verify, I’ll be very surprised; also he should give it to someone credible who can write.
     • Pasupial 4.1.1

       6 December 2016 at 8:59 am

       Since you so obviously did not read the TDB link, the relevant passage is:

       The Daily Blog understands that there is a damning book coming out that will focus on John Key and this is the reason why he is standing down.

       More information as it comes to hand.

       It seems clear that Bradbury is not himself the author of said book.

       Also, he can certainly write. It is rather; the lack of referencing of sources, and willingness to post retractions when he is proven incorrect, that is my problem with him (his turns of phrasing can be very entertaining though).
       • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.1

         6 December 2016 at 9:12 am

         I read it. It doesn’t make anything about the author “clear” at all. I see it as a transparent attempt to be coy.

         “Writing” involves more than running your mouth onto a page, as the number of factual errors you refer to shows.
       • mosa 4.1.1.2

         6 December 2016 at 11:56 am

         Yeah take it easy on Martyn Bradbury everybody he is not the enemy here.

         My understanding is that Nicky Hagar is the author of this possible book.

         Yes i agree Pasupial his turns of phrase are very clever and he has some great contributors including Mike Treen.
         • inspider 4.1.1.2.1

           6 December 2016 at 1:23 pm

           Lest we forget https://thestandard.org.nz/the-h-fee-explained/

           I suspect if it is real it will be hager’s latest trust fetish, with him breathlessly explaining how awful they are, with absolutely no sense of hypocrisy
         • Matthew Whitehead 4.1.1.2.2

           6 December 2016 at 2:55 pm

           If I run into Hager tomorrow I might see if I can ask him a question about whether he had any books on the PM in progress… don’t know if he’d actually confirm/deny it though. We’re barely acquaintances.

           The existence of a potential book doesn’t actually mean it weighed into the PM’s decision, however, as any spillover to the Party from such a book would still arguably be just as valid post-resignation.
           • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.2.2.1

             6 December 2016 at 4:49 pm

             The more I think about it the more I wonder if Key is simply telling the truth: he’s had a gutsful of the National Party. That said, a reputation for honesty would make him more believable.
             • Matthew Whitehead …

               6 December 2016 at 5:06 pm

               At this stage, I think it’s reasonable to conclude it’s something private that’s lead to him wanting to resign. There doesn’t always need to be a sinister edge to it. The man might actually want to spend some time being a Dad, or on vacation, or whatever. You don’t get much time to yourself when you’re busy running the country into the ground.
               • Muttonbird …

                 6 December 2016 at 5:14 pm

                 Lol at the zinger at the end.
           • Muttonbird 4.1.1.2.2.2

             6 December 2016 at 5:18 pm

             A few weeks ago the penguin posted that Nicky Hager had OIA’d the phone and text records from Ede to Farrar.

             Seems reasonable to assume work is going on on another book.
             • Matthew Whitehead …

               7 December 2016 at 12:45 am

               He does do articles as well as books. Not all journalism Hager does is large-scale.
   • Cinny 4.2

     6 December 2016 at 9:23 am

     Ian Wisharts book…. not Bradburys 😉
     • ropata 4.2.1

       6 December 2016 at 11:11 am

       Unlikely, Wishart fawned over FJK. As a public service I have looked over Wishart’s social media and various spammy websites and there is no hint of a new book exposing Key. If there was, believe me we would know.

       The only thing of interest (off topic) was this article: NZ citizenship for sale – an immigrant’s view of the Auckland housing crisis
       • Cinny 4.2.1.1

         6 December 2016 at 12:21 pm

         Thank you Ropata 🙂 Much appreciated
5. Cinny 5

   6 December 2016 at 8:00 am

   When someone resigns due to family reasons… there is usually much more to it (after watching the movie spotlight, resigning for family reasons or health takes on a whole new meaning for me). However I’m so thrilled, don’t care what his reasons are, I’m just glad that we will soon see the back of him.

   In the meantime, the outgoing national government appears to be in shock and disarray, their cacus is falling apart, the infighting is brewing.

   Paul Henry said on the wireless that with Key gone he needs a new best friend, before interviewing Joseph Parker this morning, lolololz.

   Nick Smith, follow your leaders example, do us all a favour and do the same.

   Discontent stirring away with in the Nat party…
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11760978
6. Puckish Rogue 6

   6 December 2016 at 8:24 am

   Well if Bradbury says he has a damning book coming out then it must be true 🙂
   • ropata 6.1

     6 December 2016 at 11:15 am

     To be fair he has form in exposing the ponytail puller and his spying regime.
     • Puckish Rogue 6.1.1

       6 December 2016 at 12:50 pm

       A stopped clock etc etc
7. ianmac 7

   6 December 2016 at 8:25 am

   Winston said on Morning report, that he knew last Friday that Key would resign and took two bets. One that Key was going. Two that there would be an early election.
   He also said that an email at 3am yesterday informed him that Key would announce his resignation at 1:30pm.
   Leaking?
   • WILD KATIPO 7.1

     6 December 2016 at 2:18 pm

     Indeed,… and yesterday he said on RNZ that issues of ‘ administration and accountability ‘ caused Key to take flight and that the govt is about to be ‘ exposed’. And that it will be coming out in the following weeks and months.

     Interesting.

     If you look up definitions on legal political accountability – one of the ways a person in some country’s can avoid prosecution is to RESIGN.
     • Siobhan 7.1.1

       6 December 2016 at 4:21 pm

       I wonder how many bets Winston makes on any given week? Its entirely plausible that he’s been (wishfully) placing bets on John Keys resignation for yonks..it’s just this time it paid off.
       • WILD KATIPO 7.1.1.1

         6 December 2016 at 4:45 pm

         I’m sure many people make ‘ bets’… the difference here is Peters mentioned Key resigning several days before – AND the reasons why.
   • Matthew Whitehead 7.2

     6 December 2016 at 3:03 pm

     To be fair, is “Winston Peters said” really a reliable source? lol
     • WILD KATIPO 7.2.1

       6 December 2016 at 3:41 pm

       To be fair – was John Key ever a reliable source ? L0L.

       See how silly that statement of yours is when juxtaposed?
       • Matthew Whitehead 7.2.1.1

         6 December 2016 at 4:03 pm

         …that’s not juxtaposition, I don’t think either of the two deserve to be taken at their word.

         We shouldn’t believe Peters if he said he thought Key was going unless he’s actually been recorded or quoted saying that beforehand. It’s not credible.

         A lot of us saw him going, perhaps, after the 2017 election, but I haven’t seen anyone claiming bragging rights for calling a pre-2017 departure for Key.
         • WILD KATIPO 7.2.1.1.1

           6 December 2016 at 4:44 pm

           Peters did say publicly several evenings before Key announced his decision , in a meeting… he also mentioned why.
           • Matthew Whitehead 7.2.1.1.1.1

             6 December 2016 at 5:04 pm

             I can’t find a quote that shows that, but I’ll take your word for it I guess. 🙂
           • alwyn 7.2.1.1.1.2

             6 December 2016 at 6:07 pm

             And your evidence for this?
             I am not quite so accepting as Mathew Whitehead appears to be.
       • Tamati Tautuhi 7.2.1.2

         6 December 2016 at 8:00 pm

         Specialized in B/S 101
         • ropata 7.2.1.2.1

           7 December 2016 at 12:12 am

           Must have been the top graduate of Trump U.
8. HDCAFriendlyTroll 8

   6 December 2016 at 8:26 am

   I note that Key has chosen to resign now as one of NZ’s most popular PM’s in history and when the economy is strong. Why didn’t he wait until everything crashes, he’s single digits in the polls, and he’s practically forced to call it quits?

   In other words he’s chosen to go out on high instead of a low, the bastard. Why?

   Something doesn’t add up all right.
   • Puckish Rogue 8.1

     6 December 2016 at 8:58 am

     “In other words he’s chosen to go out on high instead of a low. Why?”

     – Pretty sure you just answered your own question
     • WILD KATIPO 8.1.1

       6 December 2016 at 2:23 pm

       Alternatively , going out on a ‘ high ‘ can be a limited form of insurance against public backlash if indeed there is found to be ‘ issues of administration and accountability ‘ as Peters has stated.
   • wellfedweta 8.2

     6 December 2016 at 9:20 am

     Have you asked the same question of Richie McCaw?
     • Muttonbird 8.2.1

       6 December 2016 at 3:39 pm

       McCaw at least waited for the match to finish before retiring.
       • ropata 8.2.1.1

         6 December 2016 at 6:03 pm

         Given Key’s desperation to hang out with Richie i wonder if he has taken the hint from his All Black pal.

         The helicopter Prime Minister
       • wellfedweta 8.2.1.2

         6 December 2016 at 8:06 pm

         He didn’t wait for the next series though, did he? He quit while he was on top. So has Key.
   • Rae 8.3

     7 December 2016 at 5:36 pm

     Maybe to restore sight to the blind trusts so he can get them protected before the the whole house of cards comes tumbling down?
9. ianmac 9

   6 December 2016 at 8:33 am

   If there are hidden reasons for Key’s going, then the clever action is to announce his going for righteous public reasons, enjoy the shock and praise for a week, and then the impact from more ignoble reasons later, would pale in significance.
   John Campbell was politely insistent with his questions of Key, “Why now?” Key was bland and insistent.
   But with Key’s record of having multiple spins on all his answers, don’t be surprised if later he says that his reasons still stand but he chose not to mention the “other” reasons.
10. weizguy 10

    6 December 2016 at 8:36 am

    I genuinely don’t think it’s scandal, nothing’s stuck before, why would it now?

    I suspect he sees the Nats far enough ahead that they can still win without him (we’ll see) and has decided to leave with a legacy – he’ll be able to claim the mantle of most popular PM ever and will be untainted for all the big board jobs he’ll pick up post parliament. It’s something that H1 never had the luxury of choosing.
    • You_Fool 10.1

      6 December 2016 at 10:08 am

      If he thought Nat would win next year why would he leave now? Surely he could stick with it one more year get the fourth win, stick it on the CV and then move on to a soft office chair in some executive lounge…

      His leaving now is because he sees now as the high point and the tide is on it’s way out.
      • alwyn 10.1.1

        6 December 2016 at 6:10 pm

        He actually has other things to do in his life and his family to see more of.
        Is that really so hard to understand?
    • Muttonbird 10.2

      6 December 2016 at 6:12 pm

      Far enough ahead? They can’t even pass the legislation they want, ffs.

      They are not far ahead at all. To say so is right wing spin.
    • Ross 10.3

      6 December 2016 at 7:01 pm

      he’ll be able to claim the mantle of most popular PM ever

      Well, Mike Hosking certainly thinks so. 🙂

      Key might also go close to getting the award for most despised PM ever, with Muldoon maybe marginally ahead.
11. rsbandit 11

    6 December 2016 at 8:57 am

    “Bradbury Book”

    Oh please. Let’s not get distracted by the WO of the left. We’re better than that, surely.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1

      6 December 2016 at 9:15 am

      Yep. Way to throw the National Party a lifebelt.
      • garibaldi 11.1.1

        6 December 2016 at 11:41 am

        Hey let’s leave Bradbury alone guys. He is a tireless worker for the Left and we are all better off with having TDB. He has many very good contributors and usually hits the target with his own comments. I actually prefer his mediation of trolls to the slackness of the Standard’s.
        • inspider 11.1.1.1

          6 December 2016 at 1:05 pm

          Given his political success rate, it’s much more likely Bradbury is working for the right.
          • WILD KATIPO 11.1.1.1.1

            6 December 2016 at 2:39 pm

            Well… as they say … the proof of the pudding and all …

            And IF ,… between Winston Peters and what he said yesterday on RNZ , … AND what Bradbury is saying is correct …. then perhaps you just might want to consider swallowing that arrogance and retracting a few things.

            And remember … just because evidence is NOT written down on official looking papers and instead is written in pencil on the back of an envelope, ….DOESN’T MEAN that evidence ISN’T ADMISSIBLE in a court of law.

            Something that a lot of psuedo intellectuals and mutual ego massagers that post on this site conveniently like to consistently forget.
          • rsbandit 11.1.1.1.2

            6 December 2016 at 3:59 pm

            Well said, inspider
          • Naki man 11.1.1.1.3

            7 December 2016 at 12:01 am

            “Given his political success rate, it’s much more likely Bradbury is working for the right.”

            Everything Munter touches turns to shit, they dont call him poo fingers for nothing.
    • Matthew Whitehead 11.2

      6 December 2016 at 3:06 pm

      Let’s give Bradbury a little credit.

      He’s the David Farrar of the left. The left doesn’t have a Cameron Slater.
      • WILD KATIPO 11.2.1

        6 December 2016 at 3:47 pm

        The difference is my old son is that Martyn Bradbury doesn’t run a PR polling company complete with focus groups designed to enhance an erroneous public perception of a political leader,…

        Does he now.
        • Matthew Whitehead 11.2.1.1

          6 December 2016 at 4:06 pm

          Right, he’s like Farrar in that he’s prone to exaggeration, political attacks, and political comedy, and occassionally makes things up wildly with no particularly firm basis. Obviously the left doesn’t get to have market research shills running its commentariat because we don’t have as much political money being thrown around.

          Which, coincidentally, is also why we don’t have full-time deniable attack-dogs like Slater.
          • WILD KATIPO 11.2.1.1.1

            6 December 2016 at 4:52 pm

            Yes , one could say that you have just described the general condition of ALL politicians at some stage in the first paragraph.

            So why does Bradbury get singled out for the dumping?

            Seems a bit selective.

            If someone has evidence , it doesn’t matter if that person is a 5 year old child or a 50 year old who works in the legal fraternity. And part of good science or good and proper legal investigations is to NOT come to the table in a biased manner. Even criminals take the stand in court for eye witness testimony , for example.
            • Matthew Whitehead 11.2.1.1.1.1

              6 December 2016 at 5:12 pm

              As someone who used to have a lot of time for Bradbury’s opinions, and still follows his work from time to time, I’ve been noticing an increasing trend to see conspiracies in everything in his writing. It’s totally okay to call conspiracies when there’s actual evidence of a conspiracy, (such as predatory capitalism) but it’s worth remembering that a lot of the things that go wrong in politics are simple mistakes by regular people down the chain, breakdowns in communication, or actual incompetence of politicians. The best answer is usually “well, someone stuffed up,” assuming the facts actually allow for it.

              He’s still right on a lot of things, the TPPA being a good example, and he draws attention in the right direction most of the time. I just wish he’d reign it in a little. There’s a place between rampant speculation on whatever you want (which is what Farrar and Bradbury both do, essentially) and no speculation at all, and that’s “informed speculation based on conservative deduction.”

              I didn’t even bring up Bradbury, and I don’t go out of my way to attack him, as he actually does some good opinion journalism from time to time. My point was actually that it’s completely unfair to compare him to Cameron Slater, even though he is a bit extreme.
      • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2.2

        6 December 2016 at 4:57 pm

        Burn 🙂
        • Matthew Whitehead 11.2.2.1

          6 December 2016 at 5:15 pm

          Not entirely. Farrar is objectionable mainly because right-wing opinions are objectionable and the bubble they form encourages objectionable beliefs, he does a reasonable job staying within the facts in comparison to the other opinion websites on the Right. Bradbury is mostly fine, he just goes too far from time to time.
12. Cinny 12

    6 December 2016 at 9:21 am

    Re the ‘book’ rumours…

    There are rumours of a book coming out that will be very critical of him, written by Ian Wishart
    • TheExtremist 12.1

      6 December 2016 at 9:46 am

      Ian Wishart?

      The climate change denying, intelligent design promoting “journalist”?
      I doubt Key has much to fear from him.
    • Anne 12.2

      6 December 2016 at 10:30 am

      Who came up with Ian Wishart? He’s a born again fundamentalist christian unless he’s since had another epiphany and has returned to the world of relative sanity.

      He did write a book about Helen Clark during her final term in which he made some extremely grubby claims about her. Never read the book on principle, but perhaps he decided to do something similar to John Key. If so, it will get about as much media attention as the HC epistle – virtually zero.
      • Cinny 12.2.1

        6 December 2016 at 11:50 am

        link is here….

        http://www.vice.com/en_nz/read/john-key-shock-resignation

        merely sharing information

        Listening to talkback this morning, is fascinating how many national supporters are concerned at the news.

        Even more interesting is upon being questioned on what key had done for NZ, his supporters could only describe what key had done for himself. Key was with obama, key was great with overseas countries, key was personable. But naught about what he had actually achieved for NZ.

        The front runners are all terrible, gosh the outgoing government is in tatters now. Back benchers appear to be revolting a bit and mr coca cola himself, Coleman is putting his hat in the ring.

        What a weak government, looking forward to the election next year, the outgoing government has failed NZ.
        • Carolyn_nth 12.2.1.1

          6 December 2016 at 1:34 pm

          This book that was launched yesterday:
          About health policies in Australia?

          Cant see it having much about John key.
      • WILD KATIPO 12.2.2

        6 December 2016 at 2:49 pm

        Is your gripe about Wishart more about being a fundamentalist christian or the fact that he wrote a book opposing Helen Clark ?

        To which I would add the hypothetical question … if your neighbor, who has no formal qualifications and lacked the fame / notoriety of Wishart witnessed a murder,…

        Would you discredit that neighbor simply because of their lack of formal qualifications and lack of fame?

        And particularly if they were also a ‘ fundamentalist christian? ‘
    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.3

      6 December 2016 at 1:41 pm

      If Ian Wishart is anti-Key I may have done the man a grave disservice. Key, that is.
13. marty mars 13

    6 December 2016 at 9:30 am

    imho the most effective response from the left is to forget about key – it will all come out eventually. Key is gone the next one is coming…
    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      6 December 2016 at 10:03 am

      +1
    • WILD KATIPO 13.2

      6 December 2016 at 2:54 pm

      True to a point – in the short term interim at least .

      But if there is criminality involved, – definitely not.

      Key no longer has his PR machine spinning in quite so an effective way now to protect him.

      Farrar and co have this new batch of sub standards to deal with and have to spin a sows ear out of.
    • Matthew Whitehead 13.3

      6 December 2016 at 3:10 pm

      Yep, barring any major ethics scandals or illegal behaviour, Key need to be yesterday’s news, and anything that comes out about him will be more relevant for how it reflects on his colleagues.
      • WILD KATIPO 13.3.1

        6 December 2016 at 3:58 pm

        The problem in this country is that we have no impeachment laws. The logic going is that it would discourage open disclosure and legislative ability by our politicians.

        This is the first thing new aspiring politicians learn ( if not well before ) on entering parliament, unfortunately it has been easy to abuse that and exploit.

        There’s no way Key or any other would have gotten away with half of this anti sovereign neo liberal ideology if we had a strong parliamentary and legal system.
        • Matthew Whitehead 13.3.1.1

          6 December 2016 at 4:17 pm

          Impeachment against Heads of Government is pretty rare even in countries that have it. Even the US, the system most set up for impeachments like that, has only actually done it twice.

          Technically there is basis for impeachment proceedings for any criminal offense in common law, (the UK government has called impeachment proceedings for criminal offenses twice before) it’s just never been done by our Parliament.

          The real issue with impeachment of a Prime Minister within a Parliamentary system is that because you would need a majority of the house to impeach a leader, there’s no reason for Parliament to simply select a new Prime Minister beforehand. Impeachment of the Head of Government only really makes sense in a Presidential system, where the President doesn’t necessarily have to have the support of the House to govern.

          I don’t disagree that it’s a shame Key got away with a lot of the things he did, that we need more safeguards, (just ones other than impeachment IMO) and that maybe it’s going to be relevant for historians to talk about his abuses of power, I just don’t think it’s a good political strategy to focus on Key now that he’s stepped down. He proved difficult to take down, and it just promotes an image of the opposition as having sour grapes if the focus on him rather than his potential successors. And I have to say, it felt a lot like the Opposition had the momentum this question time, too, so I look forward to them following that tactic
          • WILD KATIPO 13.3.1.1.1

            6 December 2016 at 5:03 pm

            Yes , the third paragraph is of interest, as we are different from the USA, … the problem ( our system does have merits though safeguarding potential abuse ) here in NZ is that we have a situation where many of the originators are cross- party ,… therefore making it difficult to gain unanimity against one of their own.

            I speak ofc of the hijacking of our political system by neo liberals in both the National and Labour party’s… I , like others would say that is the root cause of a lot of the smoke and mirrors that is fed to the NZ public.

            Which leaves us the voters at the mercies of their whims , by and large with no recourse to rectify unpopular policy’s… hence the feeling that ‘ my vote wont count anyways so I wont bother’.

            Which is the basis behind people like Lusk’s philosophy and his attack style politics.
      • rsbandit 13.3.2

        6 December 2016 at 4:06 pm

        Agreed Matthew. Like a book coming out about Clark 12 months after she resigned. Useful as a doorstop, perhaps.

        The positive focus should be on Little, or whoever is in charge after BBQ season.
        • Matthew Whitehead 13.3.2.1

          6 December 2016 at 4:22 pm

          The negative focus should definitely be on English, Bennett, (as a likely deputy PM) and maybe Coleman. It’s probably a good idea to have Andrew Little ask a few questions to English next QT just to show them in contrast, too. He’s been doing a lot better lately and is practically interesting to watch now, so they don’t even need to do too much positive reinforcement on him. (although, it could be good to pick a potential deputy PM from Labour or the Greens and cheekily announce them the day before the Nats pick their new leadership team… lol)

          Collins is such damaged goods that you can catch up reminding people of it if she’s chosen, and it’s better to attack their stronger players first.
          • WILD KATIPO 13.3.2.1.1

            6 December 2016 at 5:10 pm

            Well said, and strategically , for the present is the best option. Any retrospective work delving into this current PM would have to be done after some time , discreetly at first .

            But retrospective work it is, and just because of who a person is , or their current or previous position is no excuse to relent either. Wrongdoing is wrongdoing and that’s why we have legal bodies who make inquiry – sometimes years after the fact.

            If this current PM has been involved in skulduggery of any sorts, we have a right to know.
14. Whispering Kate 14

    6 December 2016 at 10:00 am

    It makes me mad that he can’t even make this decision to resign without implying there was pressure from the missus. Darned typical that with even this huge decision he cannot own it and has to bring the Stepford wife into it as if she has any influence in what he does with his life. From watching the “Meet the Leaders” way back in the piece, he was interviewed with his wife and she was just a third wheel in the entire programme with John Campbell, like a piece of furniture just there for the props. Don’t give me this rubbish that it was family problems – his two kids are adults and Stephanie is having a ball in France. His wife could have lived in Wellington and seen him every evening. If anybody believes this then they are being duped good and proper. Nothing he does is not for the betterment of John.
    • Puckish Rogue 14.1

      6 December 2016 at 10:20 am

      You can let go of the KDS now, he’s gone 🙂
      • WILD KATIPO 14.1.1

        6 December 2016 at 2:57 pm

        KDS ?…

        No ,… the mans done enough to harm – if indirectly – to hundreds of thousands in this country through his policy’s and people have a right to be upset.

        KDS?

        Seems more like a convenient smokescreen label of the Key sycophant brigade.

        PS: the mans no longer going to be here for your feel good fix as well – so we can understand your coming down from your high isn’t going to be that pleasant.
      • mosa 14.1.2

        6 December 2016 at 3:20 pm

        Gone but not forgotten P R .

        Heck no one forgot the last guy that walked on water.
      • Matthew Whitehead 14.1.3

        6 December 2016 at 3:40 pm

        We might say the same to you, lol.
    • james 14.2

      6 December 2016 at 10:38 am

      Some people have happy solid marriages and consider them and their partner a team.

      It seems that you are writing from a position of not understanding that.
      • framu 14.2.1

        6 December 2016 at 2:28 pm

        “family reasons” is also an oft used cover – could be either at this stage
      • WILD KATIPO 14.2.2

        6 December 2016 at 3:03 pm

        @JAMES

        Yes well I’m sure the same could be said for Augusto Pinochet as well , but that’s neither here nor there so your point is moot.

        I think in future you should stick to the point rather than digress into patronizing condescension – after all, – that’s a very presumptuous statement by any persons standards to make, …. isn’t it.
    • mary_a 14.3

      6 December 2016 at 1:04 pm

      @ Whispering Kate (14) ..agree with your post. Yep, Key’s wife could have joined him in Wellington, but decided to stay in Auckland instead.

      That being the case, distance and loneliness doesn’t wash.

      Yesterday (NZH) Key said he resigned due to pressure from Bronagh. Today (NZH) he says Bronagh is happy to support him in a fourth term!

      So the question here is WTF????

      Something isn’t ringing true. His resignation was too abrupt, giving only one week’s notice of his intention to leave. Not usual form for a leader or CEO and definitely not for a PM, unless forced to resign!

      A rat leaving a sinking ship does come to mind! Or perhaps there is something else forcing the sudden resignation …!

      There is a reason for Key’s sudden departure and I definitely don’t fall for the excuse of it being family!
      • WILD KATIPO 14.3.1

        6 December 2016 at 3:08 pm

        I believe it has a lot to do with Winston and what he said yesterday on RNZ and it being about ‘ administrative and accountability ‘ issues. He also stated that it will come out in the next weeks and months.

        From what I read – under political definitions of accountability is that different country’s have different legal processes – in the USA , they have impeachment. Here in NZ , a person can RESIGN to escape possible charges in official positions.

        Lovely , isn’t it.
    • inspider 14.4

      6 December 2016 at 1:19 pm

      Reminds of Helen Clark’s famous “you might shout people down at home” quip.
    • mosa 14.5

      6 December 2016 at 3:24 pm

      Yeah Kate having Bronagh there would have backed up the lie.

      But when has telling the truth been important.
15. Freekpower 15

    6 December 2016 at 10:44 am

    Unfortunately for some it looks as though the ‘there’s nothing to see here folks” line is true.

    People (i.e. ipredict traders) have known about JK’s resignation for much longer than the last 24 hours (see article from 18 months ago)

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1505/S00062/john-key-to-quit-before-next-election-ipredict.htm

    ‘“• John Key…has just a 31% probability of being National leader on Nomination Day before the next General Election (down from 73% last week). Mr Key has just a 17% probability of remaining National leader until the end of 2017 (down from 35% last week).”

    JK simple saw the writing on the wall re: his own personal popularity and put a plan in place to get out. What has really annoyed me about the media commentary so far is the statement that his popularity is at an all time high. It is simply not trus and quite the opposite. National have been polling at around the late 40’s but JK’s preferred PM rating is at an all time low in the mid 30s. I get the feeling that JK would rather get out, even if it costs The national party it self rather than suffer any further on his personal reputation.
    • infused 15.1

      6 December 2016 at 11:43 pm

      Could be quite true.

      I met him earlier in the year, and man, he looks worn out now. This why I simply think it is what it is. He’s tired.
16. Tory 16

    6 December 2016 at 10:49 am

    I think that Bradbury has been channelling Dot Com and Snowden (who incidentally under a Trump presidency has not a hope in hell of returning to the USA :-), who have accessed Operation ‘Tempora’ (using ‘PRISM’) which used a submarine intercept probe (using the 3 D MEMS technology) to intercept John Keys private emails in which JK has been withholding from the public, the actual golf handicap that Obama plays off.

    Either that, or as usual, Bradbury has his hand on it….
    • WILD KATIPO 16.1

      6 December 2016 at 4:04 pm

      Deary , deary me… you know how they say that NZ used to be 20 years behind the times?…and that now we have caught up fast?

      I think you need to see whats going on over seas with corrupt politicians before you think Keys out of the woods completely at this stage…
17. Carolyn_nth 17

    6 December 2016 at 10:58 am

    this from Bryce Edwards is probably about right. i don’t always agree with Edwards, and am not keen on his politics as Game approach. But in this case, it fits with the way Key treats it all as a strategic game, and with his finance trader instincts:

    John Key’s calculated hospital pass

    Key has probably seen the writing on the wall. The chances of winning a fourth election, and forming a government without Peters has been growing slimmer. He has therefore decided that it is better to get out now rather than have his legacy eroded by involvement in such failure and fracture.

    Hence Key has made a decision based on his own needs – certainly not those of National. There is no doubt that National would have a better chance of winning a fourth term under Key’s leadership than anyone else. His leadership is probably worth 3-5 percentage points for National. We might expect that a National Party under Bill English or Paula Bennett would struggle to get even 45 per cent of the party vote. So if Key really believed in helping keep Labour or New Zealand First out of office, he would have stayed to fight on.
    • ropata 17.1

      6 December 2016 at 12:34 pm

      Interesting but I am inclined to think that FJK left before he was pushed. The Nats are getting feral after the loss of two byelections, and (contrary to the carefully stage managed PR) Key is getting booed everywhere he goes.

      I suspect that Farrar’s polling has uncovered a change of public sentiment and the Nats have gone into panic mode. Key’s weakness has been exposed and the forces of natural selection have decided it is time for new blood.
      • WILD KATIPO 17.1.1

        6 December 2016 at 4:05 pm

        Bingo !
      • the pigman 17.1.2

        6 December 2016 at 8:27 pm

        ” Key is getting booed everywhere he goes.

        But he was LAVISHED with Christmas mince pies by Royal Oak Countdown staff while campaigning in Mt Roskill with Parmar. All hail the Prime Mincer!
18. Paul Campbell 18

    6 December 2016 at 10:59 am

    I’m much more inclined to the theory that he’s leaving one step ahead of the eventual Auckland housing market crash, he’s probably decided it’s going to happen sometime early next year, before the election, and the Nat’s electoral chances are toast
    • Sacha 18.1

      6 December 2016 at 12:16 pm

      House prices, you say ..
      http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/auckland-house-prices-fall-for-first-time-in-seven-years-2016120513
    • WILD KATIPO 18.2

      6 December 2016 at 3:14 pm

      Both you and ropata seem to be getting warm, Id also throw in a lot of other things , and plenty of his detractors would write Peters off for being the showman , – but as he stated… issues of accountability and administrative issues ‘ had a big part to play in it as well.

      Quite a toxic mix , TBH.
      • ropata 18.2.1

        6 December 2016 at 4:20 pm

        Hints of improper pecuniary advantage? Peters does have a nose for a good scandal, 😉
19. AsleepWhileWalking 19

    6 December 2016 at 11:50 am

    I reckon it was this guy’s persistence

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/84158063/dispute-with-prime-minster-john-key-over-82-dinner-bill-heading-to-court
20. AsleepWhileWalking 20

    6 December 2016 at 11:55 am

    Holy crap, I knew it! Thanks Voat.
21. Heather Grimwood 21

    6 December 2016 at 12:26 pm

    Just musing….maybe Winston’s done a deal and that’s why he ‘knew’ at 3 a.m. of Key’s intention.
    • weka 21.1

      6 December 2016 at 1:02 pm

      Ha! Good point. Whenever pro-Peters lefties used to say Peters would never go with National again because of Key, I used to say that if it was the only way to stay in power National would do a deal with Peters and dump Key. I don’t actually think that is what has happened, because of the timing. But let’s see how Peters plays this over the next few months and whether whoever takes over is more palatable for him.
      • Heather Grimwood 21.1.1

        6 December 2016 at 2:42 pm

        I didn’t suggest that the instigation of a deal originated with him.
        • WILD KATIPO 21.1.1.1

          6 December 2016 at 3:17 pm

          And that makes ALL the difference – it also implies a lot more fractious factions seething under the surface of the impenetrable facade built by the National party PR machine.
    • Grantoc 21.2

      6 December 2016 at 1:19 pm

      Winston was in a zombie state a 3 am and his imagination was running riot. He’d probably had too much parrot juice down at the Green Parrot.
      • WILD KATIPO 21.2.1

        6 December 2016 at 3:18 pm

        Little bit like yourself , Grantoc …..
    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.3

      6 December 2016 at 1:21 pm

      3am seems to be the twittering hour.
22. ropata 22

    6 December 2016 at 1:00 pm

    Key’s ties to big corporates and sale of NZ to foreign interests have fatally compromised his teflon shine. Dirty politics was only one part of his campaign.

    Perhaps his work on behalf of big corporations to cover up their criminal deeds is about to be exposed.

    Examples: tax havens, asset sales, mining national parks, failure to prosecute over pike river or fish dumping… these things add up to a very murky picture of a con man whose ‘common touch’ was little more than PR to distract from his programme of pillaging the wealth and resources of New Zealand.
    • WILD KATIPO 22.1

      6 December 2016 at 3:20 pm

      Bulls-eye !!!
      • ropata 22.1.1

        6 December 2016 at 4:10 pm

        Yeah sometimes conspiracy theories turn out to be not so theoretical…. Watergate, the GFC, Iraq, CIA black ops in Cuba and South America, 5-eyes, DotCom raids.

        Our (ex-)PM was always a US establishment lacKey. These guys have form
23. Sorrwerdna 23

    6 December 2016 at 1:35 pm

    National voters will still vote National because the alternative is incomprehensible – do the GreenLabs intend on job sharing the leaders position -what a fiasco that would be.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1

      6 December 2016 at 1:40 pm

      Swing voters on the other hand… 😆
    • left_forward 23.2

      6 December 2016 at 3:33 pm

      Ah bless them Sorrwerdna – it is so hard for National voters to comprehend things outside there little lives. Sharing is a particularly difficult concept for them to grasp.
24. WILD KATIPO 24

    6 December 2016 at 1:48 pm

    So now we see the REAL REASONS for Worksafe and Solid Energys obscene and bloody minded haste in getting Pike River mine sealed up before the new leader takes over the reins…

    Cant have the new leader and the party’s chances in the upcoming general elections sullied by negative things like 29 deaths at Pike River , caused by political / private interests / public sector collusion ,… can we now….

    Oh yes… the decision to bull headedly seal that mine off forever would have been made around this last September – the same time Key told Bill English he was leaving.

    Its time this country grew up and stopped being so piss- arsed naive and gullible.
    • BM 24.1

      6 December 2016 at 1:54 pm

      You old guys really get fixated on stuff, hope I don’t end up like that. 😐
      • Puckish Rogue 24.1.1

        6 December 2016 at 2:18 pm

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_kids_get_off_my_lawn!
      • WILD KATIPO 24.1.2

        6 December 2016 at 3:24 pm

        Its a good thing law enforcement gets fixated on certain issues as well though , isn’t it …

        However, … wasn’t it Key also that slashed funding for the numbers of Police and kiosks?

        I hope I never digress to the childishness evident in your aspiring – yet – failed pithy one liners as well….

        Grow up , son.
25. TheExtremist 25

    6 December 2016 at 2:12 pm

    Some jackass on Facebook is sharing some post claiming Key is leaving because they are going switch on HAARP soon and devastate NZ with earthquakes or something.

    Key doesn’t want to be here for that.
    • fustercluck 25.1

      6 December 2016 at 2:18 pm

      Welp, that fully explains it.
    • joe90 25.2

      6 December 2016 at 3:08 pm

      An actual idiot on a DailyBlog thread linked up top sez Benjamin ‘khazar mafia’ Fulford knows shit, too.
      • Stunned Mullet 25.2.1

        6 December 2016 at 3:32 pm

        Argghhhh…note to self don’t click links to crazy sites !
        • WILD KATIPO 25.2.1.1

          6 December 2016 at 4:11 pm

          Yeah – stay away from ‘ Kiwiblog ‘ and the EX PM ‘s favorite at the time – ‘ WhaleOil Beef Hooked ‘

          They’ll only pervert your mind and rot your eyeballs out.
26. Puckish Rogue 26

    6 December 2016 at 2:25 pm

    Colin Craig just won’t go away
27. Tory 27

    6 December 2016 at 4:05 pm

    HAARP, shapeshifting reptillians, Benjimin Fulford, KDC ” moment of truth”, Bradbury’s “supposed exosive revelations ” plus your own CV and some of his wacky conspiracy theories (along with his lapdog P). It’s no wonder the public don’t take the left seriously.
    • ropata 27.1

      6 December 2016 at 4:14 pm

      Key cannot prove that he’s NOT a reptilian
      http://wonkette.com/542081/new-zealand-prime-minister-claims-hes-not-a-lizard-person-which-is-exactly-what-lizard-people-would-say
    • WILD KATIPO 27.2

      6 December 2016 at 4:20 pm

      TORY …

      Who was it that New Zealand troops headed off to Europe and North Africa to fight?

      The Communists ?

      The Socialists?

      Or……… was it …. The Fascists?

      And who are the Fascists?…. that’s right … Right Wingers.

      You are trying on the same old boring neo liberal tactic of deliberately trying to clump Socialism in with Communism.

      And you do it to manipulate naive public sentiment of those who are unawares of the difference between the two ( of which are the majority ) to advance your neo liberal greed ideology .

      – And that is to re-appropriate wealth from the commons upwards into the hands of those nameless individuals who are already obscenely rich.

      So not only is the ideology a greedy one, its exponents are also guilty of theft on a grand scale.

      That’s right – nothing more than common thieves – using sophisticated legislation to fleece what never belonged to them in the first place.

      I suppose next you will be trying to say the highly successful Socialist Scandinavian states ( far more so than any of the other Anglo /western states ) are the cause of the worlds ills as well…
      • Smilin 27.2.1

        8 December 2016 at 8:07 pm

        Good points mate couldn’t agree more other than going on for pages
28. infused 28

    6 December 2016 at 11:30 pm

    Maybe because he always knew he’d exit post a 2017 win, and he’s just had enough now.
29. Smilin 29

    8 December 2016 at 7:33 pm

    probably more chance of his wife convincing him that he isnt super politician and its finally sunk in that we are in the shit financially and like the rest of his career goes on bolstering his ego at the expense of another victim but kiwis are tougher than him

    A total opportunist nothing more “anyone can see nothing really matters to me “as he goes to visit the queen .etc

Links to post

1. Law Society Of New Zealand | Lawyer Guidance Online: posted on 11 December 2016 at 12:50 am

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS