Key’s destiny

Written By: - Date published: 8:02 am, June 8th, 2011 - 39 comments
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I don’t have a problem with MPs going to a Destiny Church conference to chase some votes. Attending a group’s function isn’t an endorsement of its views, although there’s obviously a line (eg. neo-Nazi groups). John Key, however, is endorsing of Destiny’s politics saying: “National’s policies align much more closely with their beliefs than Labour.”

He’s right, you know:

  • Both National and Destiny are homophobic. Key himself voted against civil unions and says he would do it again.
  • Both believe in ‘trickle up’ economics, where the masses do all the work, and the guy at the top gets all the wealth.
  • Both have a problem with women in power. Tamaki hated Clark being PM. National’s top 6 ranked MPs are all male.
  • Both are fans of privatisation of government services. Destiny wants to get its hands on Whanau Ora cash from the Nats.
  • National’s attack on the DPB will force women to stay with abusive partners. Destiny will approve, it frets about ‘fatherless families’ and permits fathers to ‘impose discipline’ over their families.

39 comments on “Key’s destiny ”

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  1. vto 1
    8 June 2011 at 8:25 am

    true true, and wasn’t it interesting watching them all on Campbell Live last night. Tau Henare is a dork isn’t he? He always comes across as a smart-arse loaded to the gunnels with arrogance. Pathetic display.

    And as for Shane Jones, bloody hell. Sit up straight man. Sort out your lazy eye and don’t pull dumb faces at the camera. He just looked like we was watching a porno.

    Metiria Turei came across as polished and excellent. A big future would seem to loom imo. Similarly even Hone came across well – looked good and calm and put his view across.

    Best performance though has to go to the Destiny Church guy. Last election he had all the answers and last night he seemed to take centre stage and put away each and every question with ease.

    Bery illuminating.

    • ianmac 1.1
      8 June 2011 at 10:19 am

      Agree with your assessment vto, though I thought Mr Lewis was scrambling to cover his back. Bluster not convincing.

    • Tiger Mountain 1.2
      8 June 2011 at 10:48 am

      I don’t think so veet, both Shane and ‘Tau Bar’ treated Campbell with the studied “whatev” body language he richly deserves. Tosser #1. The Destiny guy looked like he was on Peruvian marching powder, squiggling about, fiddling with his ear piece and barely restraining himself from slapping Metiria.

    • weka 1.3
      8 June 2011 at 2:17 pm

      “Best performance though has to go to the Destiny Church guy. Last election he had all the answers and last night he seemed to take centre stage and put away each and every question with ease.”

      I don’t think so either. He came across as patronising and misogynistic and having a hard time controlling his anger at her, a classic example of a man who can’t handle being on equal terms with a strong, vocal woman.
       
      Maoridom is full of such women, which makes me wonder what is going on that church.

  2. ZeeBop 2
    8 June 2011 at 8:50 am

    A women died helping build a new water main in Auckland. Key however has no dams he can point to, or other accomplishments, he after all was the currency trader who exchange currency during thirty years of growing unnecessary debt Where farmers and homeowners instead of pushing for more depth into the economy, re-investing in profit centers, instead worked to out do each other in how much they could pay for farm land and homes. Key says Destiny members have more in common with National voters than Labour, yeah, handouts to the priestly leadership who we have to take on faith that their arrogant beliefs are the best way forward.

  3. PeteG 3
    8 June 2011 at 9:17 am

    I don’t have a problem with MPs going to a Destiny Church conference to chase some votes.

    But there are degrees of mana reduction – it looked like parade of political prostitutes.

  4. ropata 4
    8 June 2011 at 9:44 am

    Neither Key nor Destiny know anything about the Gospel either.

    Matthew chapter 25:

    34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

  5. pollywog 5
    8 June 2011 at 10:03 am

    Couldn’t see the pigs for the trough.

  6. millsy 6
    8 June 2011 at 10:23 am

    Yet another reason why good right-thinking left-wingers should tell Hone where to stick his Mana Party.

  7. prism 7
    8 June 2011 at 10:23 am

    I don’t have a problem with MPs going to a Destiny Church conference to chase some votes.
    I do, thinking of the Brethren debacle. I know that Labour have courted the Ratana Church. They seem to have fine qualities and high moral standards. I see Destiny as a group using religion as a taxbreak for accumulated wealth from adherents who fall under its social control. Compare Jim Jones in the USA.

    How useful it would be to tap into the Destiny’s well-controlled minions, delivering leaflets etc. And men in black marching through the streets with staunch women as well, following a vision of a brighter, better future. Well that’s what the Nazis did and they obliterated all opposition and overcame the better instincts of a worthy country.

    Church people are ready to believe myths – their part of the churchs’ tools of trade. Ideals are a bit harder for them, they like to be able to relegate them to the back pews and concentrate on comfortable, self-serving (of the church and its functionaries), myths and dogma. Do what I say etc.

    That attitude fits in with political parties, that always have to worry about what electors are thinking, querying what is their image, have a good spiel. I noted the facility this Lewis guy has who was spokesperson for Destiny. Now B.Tamaki has made good he should delegate and sit back leaving it to a reliable PR guy I suppose.

    • Vicky32 7.1
      8 June 2011 at 5:10 pm

      Church people are ready to believe myths – their part of the churchs’ tools of trade. Ideals are a bit harder for them, they like to be able to relegate them to the back pews and concentrate on comfortable, self-serving (of the church and its functionaries), myths and dogma. Do what I say etc.
      That attitude fits in with political parties, that always have to worry about what electors are thinking, querying what is their image, have a good spiel.

      Smile when you say that! No, really, Prism, what I mean is that you should not tar all churches by saying they think the same as Destiny. ‘The Church’ is usually non-believer shortand either for Catholicism, or for all Christianity. Your harsh accusations in the first quoted paragraph could not apply less to Catholicism! 🙁

      • prism 7.1.1
        9 June 2011 at 1:45 pm

        vicky 32 – I think if the facts of what is done, rather than what the churches say, were looked at in a timeline you might be shocked. The idea is good, but after Jesus, everything went backwards. It’s really hard to follow his teachings. Not many do, for the rest religion gives a valuable moral background if they were not going to learn that elsewhere, a musical interlude or training, and a place to meet people who you feel certain won’t steal your purse, and who make nice cups of tea. Personally I am looking at being more involved with the Bahai.

    • M 7.2
      9 June 2011 at 10:18 am

      ‘How useful it would be to tap into the Destiny’s well-controlled minions, delivering leaflets etc. And men in black marching through the streets with staunch women as well, following a vision of a brighter, better future. Well that’s what the Nazis did and they obliterated all opposition and overcame the better instincts of a worthy country.’

      Useful indeed prism, no different really than the banksters in the US who get the poor to participate in their own subjugation.

      I’m always scared when I see women buying into their own subjugation by churches like this because to me aligning themselves with such organisations is no different to them taking the veil and living in the KSA. Men in these organisations generally do as they please and very much live the ‘do as I say not as I do’ and will invoke scripture at any moment to keep women, gays or whoever is the enemy du jour in their place. I have a friend who goes to a Christian church but refuses to call herself a Christian because she says it’s a hell of a lot to live up to and she’s not sure she’d be worthy of the title and I think her opinion has a lot of merit. As my mother used to say the world is full of Sunday Christians who appear Christian for about one hour a week and then the rest of the time are mean, selfish and close their eyes to another’s suffering. Can you even imagine Brian Tamaki giving some poor sole parent on the DPB $5 so she could buy her children something for dinner? Fat chance, she’d be branded a whore of Babylon who was depriving her loser ex of his children.

      • prism 7.2.1
        9 June 2011 at 2:09 pm

        M – Oh dear, I give you absolution for all your hard words. I think you are describing the end results of what’s useful in religion to the calculating. I have written more about religion, not referring specifically to Destiny but I will put it on Open Mike as I am straying too far from topic.

        • M 7.2.1.1
          9 June 2011 at 2:24 pm

          Calculating prism to be sure, like Key’s calculated use of Destiny and I think Tamaki’s use of Key to maybe get into office one day.

          How many Hail Marys?

  8. Craig 8
    8 June 2011 at 11:32 am

    Yeah, and so do I. How telling that it was only Maori *male* politicians that got invited to this little shindig- not Metiria Turei, despite her status as Green Party coleader, or Louisa Wall, Labour List MP and Manurewa candidate. It’s this whole ridiculous fundie nonsense about ‘male headship,’ despite the fact that, as we all know, Hannah Tamaki is the one who runs the administrative and social service side of Destiny Church.

    Shane Jones and Tau Henare both sounded blase and slightly amused by all the sturm und drang. However, Hone Harawira and Pita Sharples really put their feet in it.

    Sorry. I have distinct memories of the disgusting, transphobic way that Destiny’s goons treated Georgina Beyer back in 2004. And also Tamaki’s own ignorant dropkick remarks about the treatment of takatapui back in the precolonial days (he can’t even speak te reo- how would he know?)

    If Destiny provides educational and social services beyond its own parishioners, then it needs to realise that it will have to comply with the Human Rights Act (which, until gender identity is added to it, means that it could still discriminate against whakawahine and tangata ira tane- although not takatapui.)

    Added to which, I’m against any dodgy church outfit being given money to run offloaded social services from the government, period. First Parents Inc, then this lot. Who next? Family First?

    I see that one Maori women’s group isn’t very happy at the male pollies at the conference, judging from Scoop…

  9. pollywog 9
    8 June 2011 at 11:43 am

    re Hannah Tamaki

    I dont trust any woman who dyes her hair blonde if shes not caucasian. Twisters we call em. Black wannabe white.

    …and there’s some interesting stories about Hannah and young men floating round to rival the good bishop’s spiritual mentor Eddie Long too.

    • prism 9.1
      8 June 2011 at 12:28 pm

      The partnership of Bishop Brian and Hannah seems to be one of like minds and they have political ambitions. I hope that the Harawira whanau aren’t going to do more than just heckle the opposition.

      Being a woman of power and renown as part of a family or a marriage makes me think of Winnie Mandela who was accused of some nasty things unexpected when considered with Nelson Mandelas principles. From google http://www.workersliberty.org/node/4634:
      The court record, agreed by both defence and prosecution, states that “a decision was made by Mrs Winnie Mandela and the ‘Football Club’ to kill” two ex-members of the club, Sibusiso Chili and Lerothodi Ikaneng. The same court record states that Mrs Mandela’s house was used for hiding a murder weapon, that the killers set off from and returned to her house in her car, that her daughter Zinzi was involved in exchanging the murder weapon, and that the killers continued as members of the ‘Football Club” and the household.

  10. Craig 10
    8 June 2011 at 11:58 am

    Insofar as that “line” goes, well, you’ve also got to remember that the NZ National Front was able to participate in Destiny’s anti- Civil Union Enough is Enough march back in August 2004…

  11. gobsmacked 11
    8 June 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Turning up at Destiny, to challenge and condemn … that might be acceptable.

    Turning up at Destiny to pander and flatter = despicable.

    Shane Jones is just the latest example of Labour MPs chucking values out the window, in the hope of getting votes, but actually achieving the opposite.

    It would have been good to ask John Key: “Does he stand by his statement that National’s policies align much more closely with Destiny’s beliefs than Labour?”

    But the answer is now predictable: “Ask Shane”.

    Just like Goff saying “I’d do Liz Hurley too!”, or “Paul Henry was being Paul Henry”, Labour MPs let National off the hook by aping them, feebly. It never works. It never could.

    Do they really think bigots want to vote for half-hearted red bigots instead of true blue bigots?

    Are Labour MPs incapable of saying “This is right, and this is wrong, and that’s where I stand, and if you can’t accept that, too bad”? If they did, what would happen to their polling? Slump to 30%? Oh, hang on …

    (yes, Hone and Pita are guilty too, but it’s Labour who matter to me. Or used to).

    Come back when you’ve rediscovered values, guys. Who knows, you might find values bring votes.

  12. deemac 12
    8 June 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Destiny is not a church like any other, it is a cult that uses vulnerable people to enrich the leader. Yes politicians need to talk to its members but should be very wary of doing anything that looks like an endorsement of Destiny as an institution.
    I thought Campbell was the useless one, letting the Destiny guy dominate to show without pinning him down with any hard questions or reminding him of past Destiny actions.

  13. Adrian 13
    8 June 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Go easy on the Bish. He needs the money, have you seen how cool the new 2011 Harleys look!.

  14. gobsmacked 14
    8 June 2011 at 2:25 pm

    So, the government is OK with channeling taxpayers’ money to Brian Tamaki …

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5111665/Govt-gave-860-000-funding-to-Destiny-Minister

    The opposition should be all over this one. Not only on principle, but on political grounds too – just look at that Stuff poll and the comments thread. That’s where the votes are, not kissing Bishop Brian’s bigoted arse.

    But Labour backed the wrong horse, as usual.

  15. marty mars 15
    8 June 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Hone and Mana have made a big mistake by going to this event and not denouncing Destiny for the hateful bigots that they are. A big mistake and it is interesting to read the posts of Māori bloggers who also seem to have a bit of a problem with it.

    http://mars2earth.blogspot.com/2011/06/you-should-listen-to-this-nobody.html

    You cannot stand for equality while supporting inequality.

    • weka 15.1
      8 June 2011 at 2:47 pm

      Good roundup Marty. Was it Henare or Jones that said on Campbell last night that it wouldn’t be Maori bloggers critisicing Maori MPs attending the Destiny conference? Hope he’s reading.

    • Carol 15.2
      8 June 2011 at 2:57 pm

      A gay member of Mana, said Hone openly supported his presence at the Destiny meet. He says, hone took a pro gay stance:

      http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_10456.php

      The man who is starting a takataapui wing of the Mana Party says its leader Hone Harawira is glbt-friendly and in fact took a stance at the Destiny Church conference by inviting him upstairs to Brian Tamaki's "VIP" quarters.

      ….

      Harawira and the other speakers have been slammed today as endorsing the church's homophobia by attending, but Goulter says Harawira did not suck up to Tamaki like some of the other politicians and in fact took a pro-gay stand.

      "At the end of his speech, after they spoke, he came up to me and said 'you're coming upstairs'." Goulter says he was a little reluctant but agreed to tag along. "There were maybe about 12 people up there," he says. "And Hone just went straight in and said to Brian 'this is Jevan and he's here with me', and Brian shook my hand and was very polite to me.

  16. McFlock 16
    8 June 2011 at 2:55 pm

    It also stuffs those hopefuls who though Hone was the great hope of the left in NZ.

  17. logie97 17
    8 June 2011 at 5:48 pm

    I love the way people like Lewis and Tamaki use their “faith” and “Christianity” as some sort of authority to suggest that they are honest. I took from the Campbell programme that there was some truth in Lewis’ consistent cries of being refused government funding – well what about this from the Petulant Bean…

    http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/govt-confirms-funding-destiny-church-programmes-4211839

    “The social arm of the Destiny Church has received more than $850,000 in Government funding. The Social Development Minister has released the information following claims by the church that the Government isn’t funding any of its projects.”

    Their economy with the truth in such situations of course leads to questions about many of their other practices.

    • weka 17.1
      8 June 2011 at 8:24 pm

      The guy lied all the way through the interview by claiming that they’re not regressive when it comes to women and anyone not heteronormative.

  18. Terry 18
    8 June 2011 at 6:13 pm

    Well, I guess all politicians will be supporting churches financially now, also demonstrating a vibrant Christian faith. They will of course hate gays and women, we know that. There is much else we ought to know about this ghastly outfit and I hope somebody will seek out people who were sucked in by it and quit. One would love to hear a few of those stories! I would not be surprised to learn that Destiny secretly loathes children – get their views on disciplining kids, someone surely can report a number of truths about this gang, so beloved of Key (after all, it has lots of money and what else matters to him?). I wonder if “bishop” Tamaki tithes himself from his great fortune?

  19. tc 19
    8 June 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Destiny’s lack of tolerance instantly distances them from any serious christian beliefs…..end of story. Brians way or the highway…..bing…that’s a cult.

    A cult which can be trusted as much as you can trust Sideshow and Blinglish to have an economic recovery plan…….yeah right.

  20. Craig 20
    8 June 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Uh oh. Someone @ Russell Brown’s blog has just uncovered some rather disturbing recent concerns about Destiny Church Taranaki and a related foster care scandal…

    John Fisher: “Destiny assault charge” NZ Herald: 28.03.2010: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10634841

    “Destiny scandal prompts inquiry:” Stuff: 31.03.2010:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3531415/Destiny-scandal-prompts-inquiry

    Did Bennett know about this before MSD forked over the dosh? If not, why not?

  21. Jan 21
    9 June 2011 at 4:49 am

    The story from Paula Bennet confirming that Destiny’s programmes are funded is apparently to correct Richard Lewis’s apparently untruthful assertions on yesterday’ Morning Report that Destiny’s social services receives no government funding.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/20110608

    I thought with all the focus on Destiny and yesterdays MR interview over the past few days that a “should we fund Destiny’s social services” kite was being flown through the media. How depressing that it is already receiving considerale funding.

    Is anyone asking Paula Bennett why a homophobic and mysognistic cult is a suitable vehicle for delivering publicly funded socal services?

  22. tc 22
    9 June 2011 at 7:54 am

    Nice one KJT

  23. North 23
    9 June 2011 at 11:00 am

    What I found most repulsive was the shrill, bullshit, cargo-cult bigot guy walking up and down in jacked-up trance laying hands on everyone. As though HIS blinged up mits are the medium for all love and goodness. What………… ?????

    A pox on him, his moral and financial filthiness, his extraordinary narcissism.

    Hone even being there is a concern but not an overriding one in all the realities. Thankfully on TV3 he kept out of the way more or less. Trust those wahanui buffoons Shane and Tau to spiel off like idiots though. Eggs both of them.

    What about Pita ? The wannabe elder statesman of Maoridom succeeded for once in keeping that unctuous smile off his face but in the process looked like something out of Madame Tussaud’s.

    Do you think he’s basically uncomfortable in the presence of Maori unless the kaupapa of the moment includes the physical presence of his whanaunga John Key ?

    A disappointing business but more or less forgettable hopefully.

  24. Craig Young 24
    9 June 2011 at 11:18 am

    Look at this, everyone…

    9 Jun 2011 … Destiny Church has alleged discrimination after it failed to find community partners in its bid to take on work under the Government’s …
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10731094

    Bugger this. They won’t be discriminating against takatapui clients if I have anything to do with it. Or whakawahine, for that matter. By the sounds of this article, they seem unaware of their statutory antidiscrimination responsibilities under the Human Rights Act 1993.