Mana enhancement: Fail

30 comments on “Mana enhancement: Fail ”

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1. Daveski 1

   8 April 2009 at 12:41 pm

   Standard understanding MMP: Epic Fail

   Working with MMP is not about dealing with the agreements but the inevitable disagreements. I have no doubt this is a test of the relationship but that’s not to say it’s in any way a failure.

   However, I can see the problem from a Labour perspective – Key is too good at managing MMP relationships (no doubt we’ll get around to the MOU with the Greens at some stage).

   So I understand it’s important to some of you to paint this as a failure when it’s MMP at work. Isn’t it ironic that the previous thread was about keeping MMP!!
   • mike 1.1

     8 April 2009 at 12:47 pm

     “(no doubt we’ll get around to the MOU with the Greens at some stage)”

     Give them a chance to put a negative spin on it first Daveski and its hellishly embarrassing for Labour
   • Tane 1.2

     8 April 2009 at 1:14 pm

     My point is that for all Pita Sharples’ talk about his “mana enhancing” agreement with National he’s been treated like shit. Remember, he hasn’t just signed the deal, he’s loudly sung the praises of John Key and National and how great they’re going to be for Maori.

     I’d demand better than this if I was going to sell my people out to the economic interests represented by the National Party.
     • Tigger 1.2.1

       9 April 2009 at 4:48 pm

       For me the real FAIL here is Key saying ‘I don’t think having places around the table means you have a say’.

       Well, no it doesn’t, but having no faces around the table certainly means you don’t. Key is trying for sensible here but instead he does the typical rich, white, straight male trick of speaking for a minority group of which he is not a member and imagining how we feel.

       I don’t think he’s managed any of this process well – he’s showing himself far less adept at MMP than he’s being given credit for.
       • gingercrush 1.2.1.1

         9 April 2009 at 4:50 pm

         That also assumes all Maori feel the same way. I am maori and I don’t feel that way..
2. gobsmacked 2

   8 April 2009 at 12:48 pm

   “If we go into a coalition with anybody, it will be very expensive, our cost will be very high because we’re a separate and independent voice for Maori and in some ways we can’t give that up. I would think we’d be asking for a veto on all major issues to do with Maori as a bottom line.’

   (Pita Sharples, Listener interview, March 3 2007)
   • Daveski 2.1

     8 April 2009 at 12:54 pm

     That’s pretty weak GS.

     My recollection was that the election was in 2008. The MP were realistic that given the election result, their ability to negotiate was severely limited. Hence the cost to National was very low.

     This type of issue is to be expected given the differences in policies; that’s not the point of MMP. It’s how these relationships are managed.

     And that’s what worries Tane et al – the possibility that even with issues like this the MP and Nats can still conceivably work together constructively but agree to disagree.
3. Draco T Bastard 3

   8 April 2009 at 12:55 pm

   The entire setup of the “SuperCity” is bollocks anyway and needs to be taken back to the drawing board. Can’t say I agree with Maori seats on the council either – such special treatment breads resentment.

   Captcha: dissidence expelled
4. ak 4

   8 April 2009 at 1:26 pm

   Great omens – even better than the jobs summat fizzer – and coming sooner than expected. By the time early 2011 rolls around, the MP will have ensured that it has suffered enough domestic violence to legitimately divorce Smileyasp and wimp back to its constituency (tiny bruised baubles in hand), Dorklanders will be finally realising that their community boards are a gigantic sop to be utterly ignored by the Supercouncil, and Hide will be flailing wildly for his own er.. hide again.
   It’s the tories’ anti-smacking bill: chuck in the economy, unemployment, the inherent internal tory divide and a credit downgrade or three, and it’s all simmering along nicely for a very messy denouement not far down the bike track….
5. infused 5

   8 April 2009 at 1:44 pm

   Good, no Maori seats. Maori need to wake up, the past is the past. This is a multicultural nation now.
   • BLiP 5.1

     8 April 2009 at 2:37 pm

     Its both multicultural and bicultural – can you grasp that?
     • the sprout 5.1.1

       8 April 2009 at 2:49 pm

       you bin dun too much fancy book lernin BLiP
       me only see black and white. if have to. otherwise me just see white and pretend to see other colours.
       • Chess Player 5.1.1.1

         8 April 2009 at 2:54 pm

         Is this the “some pigs are more equal than others” thing again?
       • BLiP 5.1.1.2

         8 April 2009 at 3:04 pm

         Hahaha – yeah, Sprout, I reckon. But are you sure you can’t see plenty of red – you know, that tinge around the necks of trolls like Confused and Chestplayer?
         • the sprout 5.1.1.2.1

           8 April 2009 at 3:06 pm

           yep got me there. i see a sea of red in that department
6. Felix 6

   8 April 2009 at 1:45 pm

   Is anyone keeping a list of things the maori Party are getting from their governing arrangement? Daveski, you must have a few things noted.
   • the sprout 6.1

     8 April 2009 at 2:27 pm

     umm…

     repeal seabed and foreshore? NO
     drop 90 day probation? NO
     fair increase in minimum wage? NO
     genuine respect for Maori representation in local government? NO

     that’s about one humiliation per month since National have been in power.

     how much longer can the Maori Party do this without looking like kupapa to their constituency?
     • Tane 6.1.1

       8 April 2009 at 2:29 pm

       Don’t forget the MP had vote for Nationals tax cuts for the rich, which were paid for by the cancellation of Labour’s tax cuts for the poor.
7. infused 7

   8 April 2009 at 2:07 pm

   There shouldn’t even be Maori seats in parliament.
8. vto 8

   8 April 2009 at 2:07 pm

   Does anyone know the reasons for not having 3 maori seats?
   • BLiP 8.1

     8 April 2009 at 3:28 pm

     Well, basically, the seats are an uncomfortable reminder to the ignornant of the injustices suffered by the indigenous people of Aotearoa – you know, the massacres and theft – the sorts of things that Queen Elizabeth II came all this way to apologise for. A lot of people find it hard to be reminded every time Parliament sits that once you sign a contract you are required to keep your word. They would much rather just put it behind them and move on without the application of justice.
     • the sprout 8.1.1

       8 April 2009 at 3:32 pm

       hear hear
     • infused 8.1.2

       8 April 2009 at 4:38 pm

       Yeah, and now it’s time to get over it.
       • BLiP 8.1.2.1

         8 April 2009 at 8:12 pm

         Infused, you’re confused. Te Tiriti is a living document. It applies as much today as it did in 1840. The sooner you realise that the sooner you will get over it.
     • Draco T Bastard 8.1.3

       9 April 2009 at 10:48 pm

       I find there’s a difference between making up for past wrongs and implementing wrongs today to try and cover for those past wrongs.

       The problem, IMO, is that in a representative democracy you don’t actually get any representation.
       • BLiP 8.1.3.1

         10 April 2009 at 1:19 am

         The democracy you are having when you are not having democracy?
9. the sprout 9

   8 April 2009 at 2:22 pm

   at this rate the Maori Party will be pulling out of the coalition even before they are humiliated by the Seabed and Foreshore “Review”
10. John Dalley 10

    9 April 2009 at 9:35 am

    Message to the Maori Party and Peter Sharples. Bend over and take it like a man, there are a few more shaftings to come yet before you discover the error of your ways,.
11. BR 11

    11 April 2009 at 11:05 am

    So Sharples main objection to the scrapping of the three race based seats on the new Auckland council is that Maori interests will not be represented.

    So what are Maori interests?

    I would suggest that Maori interests are the same as everyone else’s, i.e. a high standard of living.

    If someone who was standing for a council seat promised to slash rates to the bone, and take a hammer to council spending and concentrate only on the boring stuff like roads, sewage, street lighting, that sort of thing, they would be in with a landslide, Maori or non-Maori notwithstanding.

    Bill

Links to post

1. Super City announcement : Rob Thomas: posted on 18 April 2009 at 1:59 am

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