McClay accused of supporting China’s mass detention of muslims

Written By: - Date published: 8:26 am, January 17th, 2020 - 51 comments
Categories: China, human rights, International, national, political parties, same old national, United Nations - Tags: , , ,

There has this week been the release of an interesting report by Freedom House, an independent US watchdog that provides reports on trends and changes in freedom and democracy throughout the world.

From Zane Small at Stuff:

National MP Todd McClay has been accused of “echoing” the Chinese government to “justify mass detentions” in Xinjiang, in a damning new report about China’s growing global influence. 

McClay is criticised in the report for how he has characterised facilities in China’s Xinjiang region – often described as “detention camps” – where it’s understood millions of Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities are detained.  

“New Zealand lawmaker Todd McClay recently referred to the forced indoctrination camps for Muslim minorities in Xinjiang as ‘vocational training centers,’ echoing the terminology used by the Chinese government and state media to justify the mass detentions.”

China says its ‘vocational training centres’ provide counter-terrorism training and psychological counselling for those affected by “extremist thoughts”, but former detainees have spoken of torture and brainwashing.

The new report, by US government-funded Freedom House, also mentions McClay’s attendance in December 2017 at a dialogue in Beijing organised by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)’s International Liaison Department. 

McClay has denied the allegations and said that the report had linked two discrete events and that his full response which was referred to was that abuses of human rights are a concern wherever they occur and that if credible evidence of human rights abuses came to light, National would expect the Government to make representations to China through formal channels.

Talk about having a bob each way.  Of course the forced imprisonment of a million people is vocational retraining but if it is proved that it is not then it is wrong?  And how about the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination as a credible source?

McClay’s pro China stance has also attracted the attention of erstwhile National supporters.  Michael Reddell posted in Newsroom how in his view National had “binned any sense of decency, integrity, or values when it comes to Chinese Communist Party-ruled China”.

He also said this:

A few months ago we had the egregious former Minister of Trade, and foreign affairs spokesperson, Todd McClay plumbing new depths. In an interview with Stuff, he championed the PRC regime interpretation of the mass internment of Uighurs in Xinjiang, noting that “the existence and purpose of vocational training centres is a domestic matter for the Chinese government.”

If he’d just kept quiet at least there might have been some doubt about his decency, but he opened his mouth and left no doubt. He was spinning for the CCP regime in Beijing.

Since then even the regime in Beijing has more or less admitted that, of course, that line isn’t true. But we’ve heard nothing more – and certainly no apology – from Mr McClay or his leaders.

McClay was also heavily involved in at least one donation from a Chinese Businessman to the National Party, that of Lang Lin who made the donation via the interestingly named Inner Mongolia Rider Horse Industry (NZ) Ltd and by using a locally incorporated company neatly sidestepped the restrictions of foreign funding of local political parties.

There is also the ongoing issue of Jian Yang whose links to the Chinese Communist Party are significant, whose last interview to mainstream local media was two years ago, and who is apparently a significant organiser of donations for the party.  To be fair to Yang he has not really hidden his background.  He was recently in Beijing for the Communist Party’s 70th anniversary as a special guest.  He was travelling with Zhang Yikun, he who parceled up a $100,000 donation to the party into neat parcels that avoided the need for National to disclose his identity.

It is extraordinary that the National Party which has been so vehemently anti communist for so much of its existence should be so friendly and deferential to the Chinese Communist Party.  It makes you wonder if this conversation where it is claimed that National President Peter Goodfellow remarked that the Chinese were more important than the farms, because they don’t complain and they pay up is actually true.

 

51 comments on “McClay accused of supporting China’s mass detention of muslims ”

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  1. Mark 1
    17 January 2020 at 9:41 am

    an independent US watchdog that provides reports on trends and changes in freedom and democracy throughout the world.

    A US watchdog called Freedom House is 'independent'????

    Pull the other one. It is a US govt proxy that promotes an agenda of foreign interference and regime change around the world.

    • Brigid 1.1
      17 January 2020 at 1:16 pm

      "Numerous major media outlets, from Reuters to The Intercept, have claimed that the United Nations has reports that the Chinese government is holding as many as 1 million Uighur Muslims in “internment camps.” But a close examination of these news stories, and of the evidence behind them — or the lack thereof — demonstrates that the extraordinary claim is simply not true."

      https://geopoliticsalert.com/china-muslim-concentration-camps

      • Mark 1.1.1
        17 January 2020 at 2:39 pm

        Good point. The million figure comes from one dubious source, and then it bounces around Western news outlets like in an echo chamber and these various news sources mutually quote one another.

      • Cinny 1.1.2
        17 January 2020 at 3:01 pm

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOb5oRv2xog

        1 Dec 2019 – The China Cables 🇨🇳 and the disruption of Beijing's Xinjiang narrative

        First story up on above episode of The Listening Post, around 12 mins long, very informative.

        Leaked documents via a communist party insider were obtained leading to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists 👁️ putting together the China Cables 📰. Beijing won't be able to bury reality with propaganda for too much longer.

        • Mark 1.1.2.1
          17 January 2020 at 4:43 pm

          Oh yeah….New York Times etc……anyone can string a narrative from cherry picked facts and pseudo facts here and there.

          Here is a fact though. Those who condemn China: US and its Western allies. No Muslim countries

          Those who support China: The rest of the world, including Muslim countries.

          The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: commended China on "safeguarding the rights of Muslim communities and minorities in non-OIC member states,” which included a positive reference to China."

          So Muslim countries around the world says China safeguards the rights of Muslim communities. While the US and its allies, who have killed millions of Muslims in recent decades, suddenly gets all concerned about the 'human rights' of Muslims, and cries crocodile tears.

          I'd trust Muslim countries themselves on what is going on in China. And not the US and its allies.

          • Cinny 1.1.2.1.1
            18 January 2020 at 8:41 am

            Extremely disappointing that

            @OIC_OCI

            again failed to raise the mass arbitrary detention of millions of #Uyghurs in internment camps at #HRC40. Instead standing up for millions of Uyghur Muslims being persecuted for their religion & ethnicity, the OIC commended #China's efforts.

            https://twitter.com/UyghurCongress/status/1105762717246332935?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1105762717246332935&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hongkongfp.com%2F2019%2F03%2F14%2Forganisation-islamic-cooperation-commends-china-treatment-muslims%2F

            Last month, Turkey became the first Muslim nation to publicly criticise China over its policies in Xinjiang. The Turkish foreign ministry spokesperson said: “The systematic assimilation policy of Chinese authorities towards Uighur Turks is a great embarrassment for humanity.”

            https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/03/14/organisation-islamic-cooperation-commends-china-treatment-muslims/

            This all happened back in March 2019, things have changed since then…. JS

            • Cinny 1.1.2.1.1.1
              18 January 2020 at 9:18 am

              The letter by members of the OIC came as a direct response of the condemnation of other nations against China and their treatment of the Uyghur. Why would the OIC react how it did?

              Quite a few OIC members are part of China's mega-project, the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) Where business interests are concerned, these Muslim countries have their economic future tied up with China, the second global superpower.

              Let's unpack that a little bit…..

              Egypt, is heavily dependent on Chinese aid, investments, and tourists. China has invested more than $20 billion in Egypt in recent years. The China State Engineering Corporation has been contracted to build 20 towers in New Cairo, including what is billed as the tallest tower in Africa, in a separate contract. The Chinese conglomerate TEDA-Suez is expanding its industrial zone near the Red Sea port of Ain Sokhna. – They won't criticise China.

              As it is China is the biggest importer of oil on the planet, I doubt that any Muslim countries exporting oil would criticise China for fear of missing out on $$$$

              China now calls Pakistan its “iron brother”; China is its main weapons supplier, as well as Pakistan’s preferred training partner for complex military exercises, including the use of modern technology for air battle. If Pakistan had dared to criticise the treatment of the Uyghurs, it could have lost its most important arms supplier, and military ally.

              All of this happened around March 2019, things have changed since then.

        • Brigid 1.1.2.2
          17 January 2020 at 7:19 pm

          The 'China Cables', if you'd care to read them don't declare intentional abuse of members of these camps.

          It shows that even the ICIJ is into propagandising, which is unfortunate.

          • Cinny 1.1.2.2.1
            18 January 2020 at 9:39 am

            The 'China Cables', if you'd care to read them don't declare intentional abuse of members of these camps.

            What a load of rubbish. In fact, the China Cables exposes the extent of brainwashing and manipulation carried out by the Chinese Government towards the Uyghur's.

            More over Brigid you say that the ICIJ are propagandising the situation… dang, the propaganda comes from Beijing not the ICIJ.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrTln_0Xw4w

  2. Mark 2
    17 January 2020 at 9:46 am

    Just googled them:

    Freedom House is a U.S.-based 501 U.S. government-funded non-governmental organization that conducts research and advocacy on democracy, political freedom, and human rights.

    It is these sort of fuckers who provide the ideological grist for immense suffering around the world, from Iraq, Libya, Vietnam, Ukraine etc…..and now trying it on with China through their ISIS mates.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-china/syria-says-up-to-5000-chinese-uighurs-fighting-in-militant-groups-idUSKBN1840UP

    Remember: the US killed a million Muslims in Iraq alone.

    • mickysavage 2.1
      17 January 2020 at 10:50 am

      I would not be so hard on them. They say this about the US political system:

      "US FREEDOM IN DECLINE

      The great challenges facing US democracy did not commence with the inauguration of President Donald Trump. Intensifying political polarization, declining economic mobility, the outsized influence of special interests, and the diminished influence of fact-based reporting in favor of bellicose partisan media were all problems afflicting the health of American democracy well before 2017. Previous presidents have contributed to the pressure on our system by infringing on the rights of American citizens. Surveillance programs such as the bulk collection of communications metadata, initially undertaken by the George W. Bush administration, and the Obama administration’s overzealous crackdown on press leaks are two cases in point.

      At the midpoint of his term, however, there remains little question that President Trump exerts an influence on American politics that is straining our core values and testing the stability of our constitutional system. No president in living memory has shown less respect for its tenets, norms, and principles. Trump has assailed essential institutions and traditions including the separation of powers, a free press, an independent judiciary, the impartial delivery of justice, safeguards against corruption, and most disturbingly, the legitimacy of elections. Congress, a coequal branch of government, has too frequently failed to push back against these attacks with meaningful oversight and other defenses."

      https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-2019/democracy-in-retreat

    • mickysavage 2.2
      17 January 2020 at 10:51 am

      They also say this about Australia:

      "Similarly, punitive approaches to immigration are resulting in human rights abuses by democracies—such as Australia’s indefinite confinement of seaborne migrants in squalid camps on the remote island of Nauru, the separation of migrant children from their detained parents by the United States, or the detention of migrants by Libyan militias at the behest of Italy—that in turn offer excuses for more aggressive policies towards migrants and refugees elsewhere in the world. Populist politicians’ appeals to “unique” or “traditional” national values in democracies threaten the protection of individual rights as a universal value, which allows authoritarian states to justify much more egregious human rights violations. And by unilaterally assailing international institutions like the United Nations or the International Criminal Court without putting forward serious alternatives, antiliberal governments weaken the capacity of the international system to constrain the behavior of China and other authoritarian powers."

    • Enough is Enough 2.3
      17 January 2020 at 12:10 pm

      Yes. Its distressing how some people promote US government funded reports if that report is critical of their political opponent.

      The US is the biggest exporter of death and destruction. They have no standing to be critical of New Zealanders

      • RedLogix 2.3.1
        17 January 2020 at 1:04 pm

        The US is the biggest exporter of death and destruction.

        Yet oddly enough the era since WW2 in which the USA has been 'exporting death and destruction' has seen the most dramatic expansion of prosperity and reduction in war in all of human history.

        Quite the little paradox really.

        • Mark 2.3.1.1
          17 January 2020 at 2:29 pm

          A lot of things are paradoxical. Life is like that.

          I'd say the decolonisation process, the Soviet Union, and the success of the Chinese revolution contributed enormously to this process.

          Yes, US and Western inventions and science have been a great boon for humanity. The average life expectancy of even the poorest countries is at least as high as what it was in the West only a little more than a century ago. But it was the October revolution which allowed these gains to flow on to non-Western humanity.

          All of this does not gainsay the fact as expressed by the contributor above: "The US is the biggest exporter of death and destruction. "

          • RedLogix 2.3.1.1.1
            17 January 2020 at 2:37 pm

            But it was the October revolution which allowed these gains to flow on to non-Western humanity

            Sighs … you really believe that don't you. As an apologist for greatest mass murderer in all of modern history, you have no standing to be critical of anything. Period.

            • Mark 2.3.1.1.1.1
              17 January 2020 at 2:47 pm

              Mao: hugely popular in China https://bit.ly/2TCRN8e

              Stalin: hugely popular in Russia https://bit.ly/2TvsUeM

              Case closed.

              • RedLogix …
                17 January 2020 at 2:54 pm

                If Stalin and Mao's 'achievements outweigh their mistakes' then logically you'll have no problem embracing the USA and the wider Western world with an even greater warmth and enthusiasm.

                • Mark …
                  17 January 2020 at 4:31 pm

                  Yup, sure. No problem. After all Marx, Engels, and Lenin, and Marxism Leninism are a product of the West. As are Newton, Beethoven, Brahms, and Edison.

                  Having an issue with Western imperialism is not the same as being anti-Western civilization. For example you obviously have an issue with what you would call Chinese ‘imperialism’ (although I would argue there really is no such thing). Yet you may well not hate Chinese culture and people in a wider sense. There is no inconsistency in that

              • OnceWasTim …
                17 January 2020 at 6:07 pm

                "Case closed."

                End of story then eh? No more discussion to be had! You're right, Red Logix's wrong!, that's it – no more to be said!

                TTFN then. Stand down

              • Andre …
                17 January 2020 at 6:18 pm

                Survivorship bias is a fascinating thing.

                • Mark …
                  17 January 2020 at 6:39 pm

                  Yeah, you are in fact correct….cause more people survived (proportionally speaking) under Mao than at any other time before in Chinese history, and in any other developing country of his time.

                  So if you were to choose any developing country to be born back in 1950, your best bet to survive to adulthood would be China.

                  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4331212/

  3. Mark 3
    17 January 2020 at 11:09 am

    Of course they have to appear fair and balanced. They are not dumb. They will offer mild criticism of Western countries in order to strengthen their credibility when it comes to attacking countries they really don’t like, like China and Russia and Iran.

    They obviously promote an agenda that is targetted at states that have different political systems from the US and are thereby less compliant. Eg. And by unilaterally assailing international institutions like the United Nations or the International Criminal Court without putting forward serious alternatives, antiliberal governments weaken the capacity of the international system to constrain the behavior of China and other authoritarian powers."

    Obviously they critique Western powers in the same way that many communists critique countries like China for not being communist enough, or how some pro-China individuals critique China for being too soft on the HK rioters.

    In the end Freedom House provides the ideological architecture for neo-conservatism. In the end they are funded by the US government

    • gsays 3.1
      17 January 2020 at 12:11 pm

      So that is about the messenger, what do you make of the message?

      A National party polly, repeating the CCP line about 'vocational training centres'.

      The National party leader meeting with, amongst others, the head of secret police. A trip that was not organised by the relevant department. Meetings which have no notes available.

      All this adds credence to JLR's accusation of dodgy practices in regards to big donations being 'handled'.

      Yes Uncle Sam has killed millions, does that mean it's OK?

  4. Sanctuary 4
    17 January 2020 at 11:43 am

    The Soviet Union funded communist parties in order to try and further their influence.

    The Chinese Communist Party simply bribes the greediest and least principled political party. And that party is inevitably on the right.

  5. Cinny 5
    17 January 2020 at 2:28 pm

    Excellent post Micky.

    With all the morning news shows starting this week, surely they will ask simon some serious questions about nationals relationship with china.

  6. Mark 6
    17 January 2020 at 2:34 pm

    There is nothing to it. Otherwise NZ First, the Greens, and Labour would be making a huge noise about it.

    Rich people make donations to political parties all the time. Not something I like. But nothing illegal has happened. There is no evidence of bribery. And Western leaders meet with opposition figures from other countries all the time.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Modr_sVr0

    And with NZs active involvement in 5 eyes, mainly designed to contain China, is China really so evil to want to maximise ‘influence’ whatever that means?

  7. Dennis Frank 7
    17 January 2020 at 7:08 pm

    Todd ought to get more serious about the meaning of vocational training. Xi has broadened his mind by doing on location research into the meaning of literary sources used in American education. "To better grasp the meaning of The Old Man and the Sea, Xi traveled to Ernest Hemingway’s favorite bar in Havana."

    Such dedication to meaning is rather impressive, and it has informed Xi's foreign policy. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/21/xi-jinping-china-communist-party-francois-bougon/

    So Todd ought to form an acolyte relationship to his guru and emulate his method. Could make him the Nat leader. Spraying literary references around would bamboozle and therefore seriously impress his caucus colleagues. Vocational training!

    "Xi Jinping is a Chinese renaissance man. Self-assured, self-possessed, and utterly unflappable, Xi is equally at home on the hearths of struggling farmers and in the greeting halls of foreign capitals. State media likes to juxtapose the years he spent in the caves of Shaanxi with the days he spent governing Shanghai’s glittering towers. Here is a man as men should be: a leader who can grasp both the plow and the bond market!"

    Being able to function as a bridge between working man and trading man like Xi would also enhance Todd's standing. Not many can bring capitalists and workers together.

    "But Xi is also eager to present himself as a man of the future. He revels in touring laboratories and centers of scientific innovation. He dabbles in complexity science and has tried to integrate its findings into Chinese Communist Party policies."

    Mastering the science of complexity and demonstrating how it enables folks to comprehend climate change would make Todd so much of a front-runner as leadership contender that competitors would give up in collective funk, retreating to the back of the room to chew their fingernails. Simon would be bewildered (as usual) but he now knows that grinning whenever possible is an effective cover. Fun times ahead.

  8. mosa 8
    17 January 2020 at 7:20 pm

    McClay is nothing more than a chinese mouthpiece and front for donated dirty money too the Waitemata trust too ensure Chinese influence is kept under the radar.

    The Nasty Natz threw away any affiliation with the country they claim too be working for and its best interests of real kiwis when they put out their hand and accepted foreign funds and the consequences that come with the acceptance of that money.

    They i am sure did not give it a second thought.

  9. Fireblade 9
    17 January 2020 at 8:48 pm

    Chairman Bridges and the Nats love the Communist Party of China and their money.

    Here's Simon on state-owned CGTN television whoring himself to the Chinese government.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tFiaz4A9Ys

  10. Mark 10
    17 January 2020 at 10:33 pm

    FREEDOM HOUSE SUPPORTED THE INVASION OF IRAQ

    Here is there statement on the invasion, from March 2003

    https://freedomhouse.org/article/freedom-house-statement-iraq-war

    So an organisation that supported a war that resulted in the deaths of at least 1 million Muslims, now sheds crocodile tears over the apparent impact of China's anti-terror efforts on Xinjiang muslims?

    The 'Freedom House' report has less worth and credibility than a piece of used bog paper.

    • Incognito 10.1
      17 January 2020 at 11:13 pm

      Let’s try comparing apples with apples, shall we?

      May 20, 2004

      Members of the Board of Trustees of Freedom House sent a letter to President Bush today urging him to take action to make "immediate systemic changes" to prevent any future abuse of detainees under U.S. authority. The Administration should expedite investigations and should do so with an "openness that will demonstrate anew America's commitment to the rule of law and democracy." A copy of the letter and list of signatories is listed below.

      https://freedomhouse.org/article/president-bush-urged-prevent-future-abuse-detainees

      And while I have your attention, you are doing a great job creating diversions and downplaying China’s attempt to gain influence in politics in NZ through the National Party, among many other avenues that they are actively pursuing, but you might want to address the other points raised in the OP and in comment 3.1.

  11. Mark 11
    17 January 2020 at 11:59 pm

    Apples with Apples? Ok the US has killed a million Muslims in the past two decades. China most emphatically has not. The fact that Freedom House after outright supporting the invasion, makes a statement that they could not avoid making means jack shit. Oh, its OK to invade and bomb the shit out of a sovereign country – just don’t torture the prisoners. What a pathetically low and easy bar for Western powers to clear. FFS in China there is open criticism of abuse by police etc.

    The fact is the US is the most egregious abuser of human rights in the world today, with an imprisonment rate for example, that is about 6 or 7 times that of China's

    Now about the Chinese attempt to gain influence in politics etc in NZ, neither you nor I know whats going on. We have the security services and the government who we trust to do a good job in protecting NZs interests.

    But whatever China is doing in terms of influence peddling, it is what all countries do. Why single out the Chinese for their attempts at influence, when the US influence is about 100 times more – we are part of 5 eyes for heavens sake – surely that makes us a target for those targetted by 5 eyes and the 'pivot to Asia'

    Of course the worst peacetime act against NZ by a foreign power was the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior – by a fellow 'democracy'.

    So based on history and the current facts, we should be looking at US influence and French influence with far greater scrutiny. But of course it is the uppity Chinese everyone focuses their attention on —-because they are Chinese.

    Now again, Freedom House is US govt funded. You got that through your head yet?

    • Incognito 11.1
      18 January 2020 at 12:31 am

      OMG, you forgot to mention her e-mails.

      Of course, Freedom House is a covert black-ops by the US Government to undermine the Dems but so are Fox News and Cambridge Analytica, not to mention Twitter. FFS!

      Look, it’s crystal clear that you’re rooting for the PRC and that you won’t make a genuine attempt to address the points raised in the OP.

      Did anybody say that we’re happy with the US influence here? Strawman.

      Gulf War and 2003 invasion of Iraq. Both strawmen.

      Rainbow Warrior. Strawman.

      French influence (you mean the RWC or hors d'oeuvres?). Strawman.

      Et cetera. More strawmen.

      You’re heading for the nearest Exit if you keep walking straight ahead, Mark. In fact, you have already called your taxi.

  12. adam 12
    18 January 2020 at 12:26 am

    The irony of Inner Mongolia Rider Horse Industry (NZ) Ltd – is the way the CCP teats Mongolians born in China.

    Stealing land, messing up water, killing grazing land, forcing them into cities. You know, the usual from statist authoritarian muppets.

    https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/chinese-police-hold-another-ethnic-mongolian-writer-04162019113037.html

  13. Mark 13
    18 January 2020 at 12:35 am

    Why does the NZ left like you Adam, seem to treat US propaganda outlets as being the authoritative version of everything that happens in non-Western countries:

    "Radio Free Asia (RFA) is a United States government-funded, nonprofit international broadcasting corporation that broadcasts and publishes"

    Do you think they are ever going to write something positive about non-Western countries that don't toe the line of Uncle Sam?

    You are so brainwashed, Adam, that you automatically assume anything put out by Uncle Sam must be true….time you grew up

    • Incognito 13.1
      18 January 2020 at 12:48 am

      You are so brainwashed, Adam, that you automatically assume anything put out by Uncle Sam must be true….time you grew up

      Keep walking, Mark, your taxi is pulling up outside.

  14. Mark 14
    18 January 2020 at 12:57 am

    hahahah…Adam, do you ever read anything that is not pre-approved by your american masters? Quoting Radio Free Asia as gospel ffs!

    Perhaps Chinese influence has an upside,….countering US lies and numnuts like you who fall for those lies.

    [Bye, Mark. I hope you enjoyed our hospitality on this site and appreciated the freedom to express your opinions. Unfortunately, you could not handle that freedom and created diversions galore, downplayed issues raised in the OP, and started mocking and insulting another commenter and accusing him of being a puppet. Banned for two months – Incognito]

  15. Andre 15
    18 January 2020 at 5:59 am

    Early strong front-runner for TS irony of the decade in these comments from Mark bashing adam.

  16. corodale 16
    18 January 2020 at 10:27 am

    Exoterically speaking China are repressive, and it´s not worth arguing with the MSM.

    Esoterically speaking, China are being pragmatic, the muslim counties (where welcomed to inspect it) didn´t support the witch hunt, because China´s policy was more humane that the western policy of driving marginal muslim populations into the middle east, so they can be shot at like rats in an empty oil barrel.

    Interesting to see National with such strong hedging on China, but Nats will be comfortable with 3 more years in opposition, watching the middle class shrink and pretending Labour are to blame.

    Expect the random neck and bowel movements from National MPs to remain the norm.

  17. Incognito 17
    18 January 2020 at 11:42 am

    Nothing is coincidental in (geo-)politics.

    Safe and sound? China launches propaganda blitz to discredit Uyghur #StillNoInfo campaign

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-18/safe-and-sound-china-propaganda-undercuts-xinjiang-uyghur/11865648

    • Dennis Frank 17.1
      18 January 2020 at 12:47 pm

      "Senior analyst Sarah Cook, who authored a report, told the ABC that a key tactic of the CCP was to sprinkle in elements of truth to add a hint of authenticity."

      Binary folk get baffled. "Hey, I thought it was either truth or fake news! What's going on??" To the white, grey is black. To the black, grey is white.

      Devil in the details, & the regime is using a devilish method of propaganda. Since binary folk are the majority, it could work. Like spicing up food. Scatter elements of truth on top of the compulsory meal.

      • Incognito 17.1.1
        18 January 2020 at 1:05 pm

        The binary is both implicit and explicit: do you believe the propaganda or the counter-propaganda?

        • Dennis Frank 17.1.1.1
          18 January 2020 at 1:20 pm

          A very good question if rhetorical! Tests the capacity for transcendence and self-transformation. I dealt with that (mid-'80s) by acquiring the integral view.

          Applied holism facilitates the integration of world views or belief systems & postmodernism helps. Once you conceive that polarised groups or communities contain elements of good on both sides, you have a sound basis upon which to proceed. A facilitator would set up a dialogue by asking each how they propose to produce peaceful coexistence as a win/win outcome.

          Xi is already on record as supporting win/win design in foreign policy, so cite him! Thus drawing both sides out of their comfort zone, detaching them from their respective entrenched positions, require them to acknowledge the needs of the opposition. From that point (if both do) it's just negotiation.

  18. Bob James 18
    18 January 2020 at 4:07 pm

    What is particularly troubling to me is why the Labour Party (and the Greens and NZ First) are doing hardly anything about this. There is a deafening silence.

    Why the heck are they not raising a huge public clamour, particularly around Jian Yang, and making political hay out of it, as they would with any other issue. Most New Zealanders would utterly oppose undue influence from the totalitarian Chinese dictatorship, and any party who wanted to, could get political mileage out of making it a big issue. But no one seems willing to pick up the ball.

    In fact the duty to point this out belongs not so much to National (who can only be expected to protect their own), but to the other political parties.

    So it comes down it, either:

    *all NZ political parties, and the intelligence services, and NZ Immigration are equally compromised and utterly corrupted by the CCP, or

    *there is nothing really to it all, and the danger from the CCP is being over-cooked

    I’d go with the first.

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