Mindless questions

Written By: - Date published: 9:50 am, February 13th, 2014 - 304 comments
Categories: john key, spin, winston peters - Tags:

The question I’d like the media to ask is “Where did John Key get his information that Winston visited DotCom three times?” Most likely source it seems to me is the GCSB. I think Winston  may have a point about his right to privacy.

The spies have always laced their briefings to the Prime Minister with political titbits, and now that Key has his old friend Ian Fletcher in the job, not to mention pressure from his golfing partner in Hawaii, I’d say its a reasonable question.

Key knows the gallery can always be side-tracked into their favourite, and utterly fruitless, game of Winston-bashing, as evidenced by this pointless piece of puffery from Audrey Young. They would do the rest of us a better service if they also questioned Key on his sources.

304 comments on “Mindless questions ”

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  1. MaxFletcher 1
    13 February 2014 at 10:27 am

    I’m not sure Key would need the GCSB to figure it out. I am under the impression the parliament is like a leaking ship – rumours, back-chat and whispers are plentiful.

  2. Tiger Mountain 2
    13 February 2014 at 10:30 am

    NZ political reporters are a very sorry lot indeed if they cannot (immediately) ask the obvious question that Mike puts.

    Key is whinging about himself and Banksie being previously questioned about their visits and knowledge of Mr Dotcom as a justification for pressing Norman and Peters. The thing is Key and Banksie performed acrobatics, indulged in semantics, prevaricated and generally adopted every squiggle known to politicians to avoid accountability. And Key is the MINISTER of the myriad snoops who always manages to know nothing? Or if he does know something perhaps it gets regularly “aged off” his synapses by some new tech means.

    Helen Kelly says
    https://www.facebook.com/helen.kelly.330/posts/10202176773834395?comment_id=6392145&notif_t=like

    I guess Helen’s point may be that while previously the GCSB spied on Mr Dotcom when they were not legally allowed to, now that they can do so, surely Mr Key would know if they were?

    • MaxFletcher 2.1
      13 February 2014 at 10:39 am

      “The thing is Key and Banksie performed acrobatics, indulged in semantics, prevaricated and generally adopted every squiggle known to politicians to avoid accountability.”

      Same could be said for Peters as well re: the Glenn Own affair.

    • lprent 2.2
      13 February 2014 at 12:03 pm

      That was my question yesterday. How was it that Key was so certain of his facts.

      Is he abusing the GCSB or is it the police?

      • MaxFletcher 2.2.1
        13 February 2014 at 12:54 pm

        Or neither? Could be a leak from parliamentary staff somewhere.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 1:27 pm

          Or it could be that the Prime Minister wants to look like an obsessive stalker who has people followed. Perhaps he thinks he’s Littlefinger, but just can’t manage the clarity of speech.

        • lprent 2.2.1.2
          13 February 2014 at 2:46 pm

          Over a two year period? Yeah pull the other one.

          This requires a filing system…

        • Tracey 2.2.1.3
          14 February 2014 at 11:04 am

          would a leaky be enough certainty for key to be so front footed on this? surely he would want something stronger thatn what could be just a rumour?

      • PapaMike 2.2.2
        13 February 2014 at 2:34 pm

        Probably the Police aided by the SIS, but is the Telecom tent still at the entrance to the rented house ? – or is it a journalist watching who goes where, or is it a leak from within the house ?

        • MaxFletcher 2.2.2.1
          13 February 2014 at 2:43 pm

          “Probably the Police aided by the SIS”

          I would highly doubt that because then Key has to face the prospect of having to admit to using the SIS to spy on members of the house which is political suicide.

          Far more likely to be something mundane.

      • AmaKiwi 2.2.3
        13 February 2014 at 10:05 pm

        “Then why are you blushing, Prime Minister?”

        Key was beet red on TV3 news when he denied government spies told him.

        Look at it again. He looks like he has sunstroke.

      • PapaMike 2.2.4
        14 February 2014 at 1:57 pm

        Five of DotCom’s security staff have left since October in including his top man Tempero.
        There have been serious money problems there, not only by his staff but by contractors.

  3. JanM 3
    13 February 2014 at 10:42 am

    The thing is, of course, that the more obviously nonsensical the spin, and the more apparent the bias of the press, the less credibility they attract, as you can see if you read the comments on Audrey’s piece. Let them go for it I say. At this rate even the daftest of us will see the light!

  4. Tracey 4
    13 February 2014 at 10:46 am

    Id like them to ask Key

    “You don’t seem impressed by winston visiting dotcom. Will you still work with him post 2014?”

  5. wtl 5
    13 February 2014 at 11:04 am

    Is it just me or is there something deeply disturbing about the PM knowing exactly who and when an opposition MP is visiting?

    • JanM 5.1
      13 February 2014 at 11:21 am

      Yes, there is something deeply disturbing about it. George Orwell just got his dates a bit wrong.

    • ianmac 5.2
      13 February 2014 at 12:03 pm

      Short answer wtl, “Yes!”

    • Draco T Bastard 5.3
      13 February 2014 at 12:24 pm

      Not just you, the PM knowing who the opposition visits is very deeply disturbing. Especially when that information is then used to attack the opposition.

      • marty mars 5.3.1
        13 February 2014 at 4:40 pm

        Yes I agree, very deeply disturbing indeed. There is no good reason for the PM to have this information regarding who the opposition is visiting – it’s beyond trying to find dirt to throw, it’s sinister.

        • Colonial Viper 5.3.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 4:46 pm

          When the Government has extensive surveillance powers without checks and balances, this is what you can expect.

    • aerobubble 5.4
      14 February 2014 at 1:16 pm

      Yeah, as if Dotcom told him exactly how many, when Key’s minion was discussing how Dotcom could get the extradiction dropped if he undermined the next election, helping Key back in.

  6. Sosoo 6
    13 February 2014 at 11:10 am

    I doubt that it is the GCSB. My guess is that National employs its own spies and cyber spies.

    That’s really the missing piece of what’s been going on lately. Sure, governments are tapping your email and so on, but private companies have just as much of an incentive to engage in cyber spying as the government, after all, your wants and desires tend to be recorded in your browser history and social media profile, and it’s cheap and easy to hack your competitors.

    • Tracey 6.1
      13 February 2014 at 3:00 pm

      I agree. He did say he had a top drawer of stuff people say.

      Seems he doesnt want to work with nzf afterall.

      Key speaks with forked tongue indeed.

  7. Roflcopter 7
    13 February 2014 at 11:18 am

    I hope you continue pushing this angle as hard as possible… what could possibly go wrong?

    • lprent 7.1
      13 February 2014 at 12:05 pm

      If it is what we suspect, then John Key could get a visit from the police to drag him into court.

      It is illegal to use the state security apparatus to advance a politician’s agenda.

      • Roflcopter 7.1.1
        13 February 2014 at 1:47 pm

        Peters visiting KDC was hinted at several weeks ago, by someone outside of gov’t, so have fun heading down this track.

        • karol 7.1.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 1:53 pm

          Who? And why does that discount the possibility of the leak coming from within Key’s government?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.2
          13 February 2014 at 2:03 pm

          Don’t be so cynical Karol. Roflcopter obviously doesn’t want us wasting our time on this non-story, and is doing us all a huge favour by helpfully explaining it all.

          Roflcopter, that said, it should be noted, however, that this isn’t so much the track “the Left” are on – we’re watching KDC and Peters with interest, though.

        • lprent 7.1.1.3
          13 February 2014 at 2:40 pm

          Who? Whaleoil? The mouthpiece of this government being fed information by Jason Ede – from John Key’s office. Don’t be a dickhead. Hardly a independent source.

          That really doesn’t address the question about how John Key knew it was *exactly* 3 times that Winston Peters had visited KDC. That is extraordinarily precise information to get from the outside for a period of over 2 years.

          Peters had to look that up himself in his diary. So is John Key spying on Winston Peters? With what? GCSB? Police? Subverting a staffer in Winston’s office?

          Doesn’t look good for Key. I think that he has just made sure that Winston both gets back into parliament AND distrusts John Key and/or National…

          • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.3.1
            13 February 2014 at 3:05 pm

            People who aren’t connected to the National Party tell him things.

            • Tracey 7.1.1.3.1.1
              13 February 2014 at 3:18 pm

              People who the national party has an agreement not to be linked to the national party tell him things…

              Re read the hollow men people… history is repeating. The cracks appeared in the well crafted veneer national built after 2005… so now its time to wallow in the mud

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                13 February 2014 at 3:25 pm

                “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”. The National Party has run out of ideas, especially where KDC is concerned.

                People who aren’t connected to the National Party tell me John Key is a shape-shifting lizard from outer space. I ask to see their sources. Silence reigns.

                • Tracey …
                  13 February 2014 at 3:32 pm

                  Wayne hasnt been able to find documents to refute it though 😉

                  Hard to believe this is the same man who frothed at the mouth for a year over paintgate and helen clarks non involvement in glens donation to winston.

                  Its like he never had a stance on it.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.3.2
            13 February 2014 at 3:19 pm

            …he has just made sure that Winston both gets back into parliament AND distrusts John Key and/or National…

            It seems such an overt burn that I cannot help but wonder – has Key decided that Winston will exact too great a price from National for his support? Or concluded that he has no chance with Winnie so why not muddy the waters a little?

            The Nats must have some sort of strategy in mind for minimising any damage from the Dotcom hearings. This attack on NZF and the Greens, though, has the potential to cement relationships between the two. Ok I’ll stop thinking now.

            • weka 7.1.1.3.2.1
              13 February 2014 at 3:33 pm

              The first thing I thought was NZF getting over 5% stops the left from having an outright win. It also slows down the shift away from neoliberalism even if Peters supports Labour.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                13 February 2014 at 3:57 pm

                Yep. Knowing they’ll lose the election they seek to sow discord in the three-headed beast.

            • Tracey 7.1.1.3.2.2
              13 February 2014 at 3:34 pm

              Armstrong just praised key for being transparent. Will he ask him if this means winston is off the coalition list?

              Maybe we assume too much of the nats. They have duped so many for so long they just assume dotcom is disliked by most…

          • Watching 7.1.1.3.3
            13 February 2014 at 3:41 pm

            Doesn’t look good for Key. I think that he has just made sure that Winston both gets back into parliament AND distrusts John Key and/or National…

            What we see in the media & blogs, what we see in interviews, what we see in statements, what we are told is not necessarily the playbook . In sport or in negotiations to settle its not a wise strategy to accept that the other team is following ‘your understanding’ of their playbook.

            Politics has no rule books, and politicians are the best exponent of the reverse playbook bluff. Maybe this is the Key-Peters playbook whereby Key make sure Peters gets back in parliament – and all comment from both sides is just noise.

            • Tracey 7.1.1.3.3.1
              13 February 2014 at 3:43 pm

              Reverse playbook bluff is in the playbook though

            • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.3.3.2
              13 February 2014 at 4:02 pm

              Yes, that’s plausible too. It sort of depends what Dotcom’s “proof” amounts to. If KDC can produce evidence that will destroy Key, and they’re all as calculating and venal as your comment suggests, Winnie would be talking to Collins and/or Joyce, not Key.

              • Tracey …
                13 February 2014 at 4:06 pm

                Why would key being caught in a lie be fatal to key. He got caught before and suffers from misrememberingnesslessness. The dupes forgive all.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  13 February 2014 at 4:36 pm

                  Because of that John Campbell interview where he spends ten minutes denying it. Even Paddy Gower will join the feeding frenzy once there’s blood in the water, and that would put National under 40%.

              • PapaMike …
                14 February 2014 at 2:01 pm

                Has this any bearing upon the legal process of Extradition – nothing to do with Key I expect ?
                Let the Law do its job – it is being obfuscated by all sorts of unlegal innuendo.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  14 February 2014 at 2:09 pm

                  Of course it has a bearing on the legal process, because the final stage of this process is a Ministerial decision, and questions of ministerial bias may arise.

        • Tracey 7.1.1.4
          13 February 2014 at 3:01 pm

          Source?

        • AmaKiwi 7.1.1.5
          13 February 2014 at 10:13 pm

          John Key’s face TOLD you the truth. He blushed beet red. What does that tell you?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.5.1
            14 February 2014 at 2:13 pm

            Not much. It could mean he was lying. It could mean he was upset at being called a liar. It could be that he was upset at being scorned by someone ten times richer than him.

  8. Enough is Enough 8
    13 February 2014 at 11:24 am

    Parliament and more particularly parliamentary staffers are hot bed of gossips. It is reasonably hard to keep a lid on where MP’s are at any time. We don’t usuallt know what goes on behind closed doors but we do usually know who is behind those same doors (whether it is parliamentary business or otherwise).

    If Key comes out and tells us what was discussed between the German and Peters then I think we would really have to question how he was getting the info.

    But it is a bit OTT to presume Key knows there was a meeting because the GCSB told him.

    • karol 8.1
      13 February 2014 at 11:33 am

      It could be the GCSB or it could be this:

      Winston Peters on Twitter:

      .@LloydBurr Dear Lloyd. We went to a confidential dinner – enjoyable. Next morning you talked. Conclusion. End of a beautiful friendship.

      • karol 8.1.1
        13 February 2014 at 11:38 am

        And Tweet from Bryce Edwards…. curiouser and curiouser

        Has Simon Lusk been involved in Internet Party? Has he been leaking to Whaleoil, PM, etc? What a tangled web.

        • Enough is Enough 8.1.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 11:46 am

          Very curious, and reinforces my point that no meeting is a secret meeting when you are an MP.

      • Tracey 8.1.2
        13 February 2014 at 3:03 pm

        Who is lloyd burr?

      • Tracey 8.1.3
        13 February 2014 at 3:23 pm

        Accessibility Skip to Global Navigation Skip to Local Navigation Skip to Content Skip to Search Skip to Site MapMenu

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        Lloyd Burr

        After graduating with a BA(Hons) in Communication Studies from Otago, I moved to the New Zealand Broadcasting School in Christchurch to study journalism.

        Lloyd Burr
        BA(Hons) Communication Studies, 2009

        Two years and thousands of earthquakes later, I was approached by TV3 to start up the online news operation in Wellington and at Parliament.

        I leapt at the chance, moved north and have never looked back. I’ve covered some big stories, including the Rugby World Cup, the elections, numerous murder trials and the demise of a number of politicians. My role also means I’m at the forefront of predicting the future of media consumption in a landscape of volatile platform convergence.

        I work with some of the country’s most experienced and renowned journalists for New Zealand’s biggest multi-media company – my future is bright and Otago is where it all started

        • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.3.1
          13 February 2014 at 3:53 pm

          Bright future. He knows the secret pass phrase, at least 🙂

        • veutoviper 8.1.3.2
          13 February 2014 at 4:53 pm

          Just Google the name – much quicker and more up to date information.

          Currently RadioLIVE political journalist working for MediaWorks; July 2013 to present, Parliament.

          Previously TV3 Online Reporter. June 2011 to June 2013.

          Twitter account

          https://twitter.com/LloydBurr

  9. Barnsley Bill 9
    13 February 2014 at 11:33 am

    Tinfoil hat time.
    Have you considered the answer might be as simple as the PM reads New Zealands most popular blog. Whaleoil have been talking about Winston visiting for weeks. Lots of ex KDC employees squealing too.

    • lprent 9.1
      13 February 2014 at 12:07 pm

      So much squealing from our favourite RWNJ’s.

      Looks like Mike has struck a nerve…

      Perhaps we should get the police to look at Cameron’s email to find out if the GCSB staff have been leaking to him? We have no idea if the GCSB is still monitoring KDC because the warrants are sealed.

      After all the security acts operate on a presumption of guilt until proven innocent

      • Disraeli Gladstone 9.1.1
        13 February 2014 at 12:23 pm

        I genuinely, quite literally, facepalmed.

        The GCSB leaking to Slater?

        This is not a Jim le Carre novel. And if it is then it’s the worst one ever written because I haven’t even got any repressed British elitism to entertain me as a side plot.

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 12:29 pm

          Considering the incompetence of NZ’s managers in general it really wouldn’t surprise me if they were.

          • Disraeli Gladstone 9.1.1.1.1
            13 February 2014 at 1:40 pm

            The complete and utter failure of the principle of “economic managerialism” does lead to incompetence.

            But I don’t know if incompetence leads to the GCSB (‘spies’) leaking to a source about reliable as three day old chicken laying in the sun. Usually, people leak to spies. Spies do not tend to leak to a blogger who has a track record of throwing his toys out of the pram. They wouldn’t touch Slater with a fifty foot pole.

            • wtl 9.1.1.1.1.1
              13 February 2014 at 1:55 pm

              Yes, the GCSB directly leaking to Slater is highly unlikely. The GCSB indirectly leaking to Slater (e.g. through the PM, Collins etc.) is certainly plausible.

            • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1.1.2
              13 February 2014 at 4:19 pm

              I didn’t suggest that it was the spies who were leaking.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.2
          13 February 2014 at 12:36 pm

          What would be unusual about continued surveillance of KDC, given the official narrative about his activities?

        • Disraeli Gladstone 9.1.1.3
          13 February 2014 at 1:50 pm

          Also, shame on you for nobody correcting Jim to John.

          Brain fade there.

        • lprent 9.1.1.4
          13 February 2014 at 2:50 pm

          We know that Jason Ede leaks to Cameron. Right?

          Jason Ede from John Keys office.

          John Key who appointed his mate Fletcher to run the GCSB. Who has at least doubled the number of *local* intercept warrants over the last year.

          You’re really so naive that you really don’t think that it is up to John Key to show his source for his certainty about the number of visits.

          • tinfoilhat 9.1.1.4.1
            13 February 2014 at 3:27 pm

            Do you want to borrow my pseudonym ?

            I think someone was correct the other day when they said it would be one of the weirder election years.

            • lprent 9.1.1.4.1.1
              13 February 2014 at 7:17 pm

              One of those WW1 flat british helmets seems safer.

            • Jimmie 9.1.1.4.1.2
              13 February 2014 at 7:54 pm

              Might need a fair few rolls of tin foil – going by the number of comments on this thread.

              So if Labour or the Greens find out from a snitch that Don Brash met with the Exclusive Brethren then that is ok, however if John Key hears from a snitch that Winston Peters went to see Dot Com then it must have been the evil spies.

              I think the left is getting a little embarrassed that their short term love affair with KDC is turning out to have unintended consequences.

              Is the lure of ill gotten money so powerful that the reds, the greens, and peters all have to go on a pilgrimage to his mansion?

              Would have been much better to have had nothing to do with KDC and painted him as a stereotype of a capitalist crook who has never done an honest day’s work in his life.

              • McFlock …
                13 February 2014 at 8:13 pm

                So if Labour or the Greens find out from a snitch that Don Brash met with the Exclusive Brethren

                Hmmm. You obviously have a prime opportunity to demonstrate textbook hypocrisy on the part of “the left”. If you could relate it to reality, of course…

              • amirite …
                14 February 2014 at 2:47 pm

                The snitch was always from the Right (someone from National leaked to Hager).
                This time they have the technology as well.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.4.2
            13 February 2014 at 3:48 pm

            That would be very stupid, but to think it through.

            If I were him, I’d use an intermediary. I’d have a trusted childhood friend appointed as GCSB head, and have them leak to a third party who’d then pass it on. But that would be insanely stupid because any evidence of it would put all three of us in the clink.

            Key’s explanation makes more sense: after all, the French couldn’t even land a secret dinghy without people gossiping.

            Winnie goes to play at Kimmie’s is at least as memorable (to the average Joe) as spies who smell of garlic landing a boat at dead of night.

            Key’s explanation implies it’s one source, though. That’s revealing.

      • Barnsley Bill 9.1.2
        13 February 2014 at 1:30 pm

        Bwahaha. Yup. Our nations security services are leaking to Cameron Slater. That must be it.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.2.1
          13 February 2014 at 1:40 pm

          Nah, there are certainly other possibilities, but Fletcher -> Key -> Ede -> Slater isn’t so hard to imagine.

        • lprent 9.1.2.2
          13 February 2014 at 2:44 pm

          Probably not directly. But Jason Ede from John Key’s office and direct leaks from Judith Collin(‘s) office have been pretty well proven in the past.

          Essentially Cameron/Whaleoil appear to be a mindless sockpuppet for National’s politicians.

          Incidentally, are you still working for Cameron?

          • Barnsley Bill 9.1.2.2.1
            13 February 2014 at 3:14 pm

            I never worked for Cameron. EVER.
            I did contract for that particular publisher at the same time. But not anymore.
            I have returned to the Bay of Islands to go broke again, I expect that to occur by mid 2015 and then have to schlep back to Auckland again for a year or two to make more lolly so I can then head North to slowly go broke again.
            I am currently on cycle 4 of that particular journey.
            Your theory on how Key found out certainly slots nicely into your usual fevered imaginings but the idea is preposterous. Now if Clark was still PM the idea might have legs 🙂
            Anything else you need to know?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.2.2.1.1
              13 February 2014 at 3:29 pm

              Oh I’m sure you’re right. To go through official channels in this manner would be an error/criminal act of Banksian proportions and I doubt Key would go there.

              But you’re missing the point, which is that by bringing it up, Key looks like a stalker. Winston’s got a stalker. His name’s John. Not a good look John.

            • lprent 9.1.2.2.1.2
              13 February 2014 at 5:09 pm

              😈

              Sounds like fun. I prefer helping companies grow with my skills. This is the the 4th one.

              BTW: What is that silly phrase that the wingnuts use “Explaining is losing” ? John Key seems to have missed that.

    • Tiger Mountain 9.2
      13 February 2014 at 12:12 pm

      All the soft tory apologia appearing here hints at something more to come, oh damn, that pesky damages case against NZ Govt. by Kim Dotcom and possible Snowden revelations relating to NZ, oh shit, and Banksie taking his final fall.

      If the statutory snoopers are not involved in ShonKeys parliamentary sniping does that really mean we have to rely on WhaleSpew? At the time of the last election when the partner of a Green Party member was making decal additions to National Party hoardings Blubberguts was running a ‘pay for tips’ junior Stasi operation urging followers to be alert and note down car plates and other comings and goings. So while such is possible there are better guesses available given the stakes.

        • ianmac 9.2.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 1:11 pm

          Interesting and it says, “He (Kim) followed that up by saying Mr Key should be asked how he knew about three visits.
          “Only 4 people knew about it & probably Ian Fletcher at the GCSB.”
          Fancy the Herald publishing this???

        • mickysavage 9.2.1.2
          13 February 2014 at 1:54 pm

          Winston has spoken. From a press release:

          “Rt Hon Winston Peters has confirmed that he met Kim Dotcom three times in the last two years and has asked the Prime Minister to explain how he knew about the meetings.

          The meetings followed New Zealand First criticising the immigration process for Mr Dotcom and the conflicting positions taken by senior Cabinet ministers over his case.

          They also followed the armed police raid, the arrest and release of Mr Dotcom and the subsequent court case which ruled the raid unlawful.

          Mr Peters was approached by Kim Dotcom who wanted to explain his side of the story.

          The pair met first to discuss the immigration issue and then twice to discuss matters relating to the GCSB case.

          Mr Peters says nothing was asked for and nothing was offered, no taxpayers’ money was used.

          “The meetings were confidential and I agreed to keep them as such.

          “In many years of politics I have never broken a confidentiality agreement and do not intend to start doing so, despite the squawking of beltway reporters in Parliament.

          “Mr Dotcom has agreed to lift the confidentiality agreement as it is a matter of deep concern that my movements were apparently being tracked.”

          Mr Peters says National Party sources obviously knew of the three meetings and this points to information being passed to and from the top floor of the Beehive.

          “Does this mean that some New Zealand politicians are now under surveillance? Exactly when did the Prime Minister authorise someone to keep tabs on me?

          “New Zealanders should be outraged that a former Deputy Prime Minister, Foreign Minister and Opposition party leader has apparently been spied on,” says Mr Peters.”

          So he wanted to respect a confidentiality agreement. And where did Key get the information from?

        • mickysavage 9.2.1.3
          13 February 2014 at 1:56 pm

          AAANNNDDD

          Dotcom has tweeted …

          “The Prime Minister set himself up. He knew specifically about “three” visits by Peters. Not even our staff knew there were “three” visits.”

          So how did Key know?

          • grumpy 9.2.1.3.1
            13 February 2014 at 2:20 pm

            Wouldn’t attempting to pervert the course of justice be a police matter? Perhaps it was the guys that couldn’t carry out the raid properly having another go?
            Only joking……

          • Hayden 9.2.1.3.2
            13 February 2014 at 2:29 pm

            From Stuff, here:

            Key today refused to say how he knew of Peters’ visits but said it was not through official security channels.

            “I can absolutely categorically tell you it’s got nothing to do with an official agency. From time to time people see things and from time to time people tell me.”

            The person who told him was not aligned with the National party or any government agency.

            “…I was pretty sure they’d be right because they often are and guess what, they were”.

            Yeah, I’m sure he makes accusations like that in Parliament based on “they’re often right”.

            Also:

            He said he did not know what Peters and Dotcom discussed but said the New Zealand public was entitled to know.

            Hypocrite, much?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.2.1.3.2.1
              13 February 2014 at 2:33 pm

              “From time to time people see things and from time to time people tell me.”

              He does think he’s Littlefinger.

            • Bill 9.2.1.3.2.2
              13 February 2014 at 4:02 pm

              “From time to time people see things and from time to time people tell me” can’t be referring to a person or persons on three separate occasions ‘seeing’ Winston Peters visit Dotcom. It could refer to someone on one occasion seeing a report to that effects though. And it could refer to that someone passing on what they saw ‘over a beer’…which would have “absolutely categorically (…) nothing to do with an official agency” per se – just some chat over a beer in an unofficial capacity by some ‘mate’ who may just happen to work for gcsb or head them or whatever….maybe even passed to Johnny by someone one or two steps removed.

              Maybe Johnny simply overlooked the implication of ‘unofficially’ repeated info being passed to him by someone he was “pretty sure (would be) be right because they often are and guess what, they were”

              Fucking idiot?

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                13 February 2014 at 4:22 pm

                That reading of Key’s statement had occurred to me too, but the politically damaging aspect of it is that Johnny Bankster is watching you. Fuck does it matter who his eyes are, the guy’s a Peeping Tom.

            • Draco T Bastard 9.2.1.3.2.3
              13 February 2014 at 4:35 pm

              From time to time people see things and from time to time people tell me.

              That doesn’t ring true. For someone to be able to tell him that would have to require that someone to be watching whoever goes to see KDC and to take a record of it. Not something that most casual passersby do.

              The person who told him was not aligned with the National party or any government agency.

              “…I was pretty sure they’d be right because they often are and guess what, they were”.

              And that would indicate that it was someone who was hired to do the watching.

              If it wasn’t a national agency then it would have to have been someone hired either directly or indirectly by National to spy upon KDC and/or Winston.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                13 February 2014 at 4:48 pm

                Casual passsers-by would remember seeing Winston Peters entering/leaving the secret SMERSH headquarters, let alone Kim’s place. Ask the French how easily your cover gets blown.

                • karol …
                  13 February 2014 at 5:02 pm

                  But one person happening to be a casual passerby on the 3 occasions that Peters visited the mansion? If not employed by key, then someone Key knows.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    13 February 2014 at 5:14 pm

                    Or someone who makes it their business to keep an eye on things, like a journalist for example?

                    • PapaMike …
                      14 February 2014 at 2:06 pm

                      Could it be Rachael Glucina a reporter, who now appears to have ben named as the provider of this information ?

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  13 February 2014 at 5:14 pm

                  Would they actually see him? It’s quite difficult to see somebody in a car especially if they’re in the back seat.

              • AmaKiwi …
                13 February 2014 at 10:44 pm

                Draco, you are spot on correct.

                Someone was hired to do the spying, “a friend of responsible government” or some b.s.

          • PapaMike 9.2.1.3.3
            13 February 2014 at 2:37 pm

            Got it from Whale !

            • BM 9.2.1.3.3.1
              13 February 2014 at 2:59 pm

              I wouldn’t be surprised, whale oil seems to get a lot of tip offs.

              Key did a Winston to Winston, threw a question out there and then waited to see if he got lucky and hooked something.

              Well fished John Key..

              Also immigration matters, who believes that.

              • Tracey …
                13 February 2014 at 3:11 pm

                Be honest. If this were helen clark you would be frothing at the mouth in your horror that she wont reveal how she knew.

                Why do you think he wanted to maligned what he calls a potential coalition partner?

                Compare peters response to john banks.

                • BM …
                  13 February 2014 at 3:21 pm

                  Like Key said he got told by some one, so he threw it out there and waited to see what happened.

                  Why do you think he wanted to maligned what he calls a potential coalition partner?

                  Key’s going for 50%+ so Peters can go get bent.

                  • Tracey …
                    13 February 2014 at 3:25 pm

                    Couldnt bring yourself to give an honest answer aye

                    • BM …
                      13 February 2014 at 3:32 pm

                      You’re assuming Key did something silly like get the GSCB involved.

                      That would be political suicide, to risk it all for what is just a minor skirmish doesn’t seem particularly rational.

                      Which is why my scenario is much more plausible.

                    • Tracey …
                      13 February 2014 at 3:38 pm

                      No. Am not assuming gcsb involvement. Am assuming if this were clark or cunliffe you would be baying for their source.

                      Keep telling yourself the little rationalizations bm… dont want you finding out you are being duped daily and have been since about 2007.

                    • Tracey …
                      13 February 2014 at 3:38 pm

                      No. Am not assuming gcsb involvement. Am assuming if this were clark or cunliffe you would be baying for their source.

                      Keep telling yourself the little rationalizations bm… dont want you finding out you are being duped daily and have been since about 2007.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    13 February 2014 at 3:32 pm

                    Peters can go get bent.

                    I agree with BM (there’s an ice storm in hell apparently), Key has just burnt any chance of détente with Winston. Hmm, perhaps he thinks he’s Joffrey, not Littlefinger.

                    • BM …
                      13 February 2014 at 3:36 pm

                      I think once he found out Peters had been dealing with Dot com any chance of a coalition was gone any way.

                      No trust, no coalition.

                    • mickysavage []
                      13 February 2014 at 3:39 pm

                      What will you do BM if Key does not rule Peters out, even after all of this?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      13 February 2014 at 3:39 pm

                      Hmm. Key’s known that for ages: Peters has been gleefully rubbing Key’s nose in it. The narrative goes that Winnie has seen Dotcom’s proof of Key’s mendacity.

                      This attack on NZF and the Greens lends weight to that narrative.

                    • Tracey …
                      13 February 2014 at 3:39 pm

                      I agree he has decided winston is a foe but you know thats not what I asked bm… hes doing a wayne mapp on me…

                    • Tracey …
                      13 February 2014 at 3:42 pm

                      Peters hasnt been quiet about believing he has proof key lied.. so it cant be that…

                      Key doesnt require integrity in a partner but loyalty to the lies…

    • Tracey 9.3
      13 February 2014 at 3:05 pm

      It would be frightening indeed if the pm spends time reading whaleoil.

      More frightening still that he would go public on something from a blog unless the blog was directly feeding him scuttlebutt.

      No right wing outrage at dirty politics? Used to be tgey said it was a sign of desperation.

      • David H 9.3.1
        13 February 2014 at 9:57 pm

        Maybe he (Key) has people reading, and interacting (well getting caught out) on all blogs. Well those that count anyway.

  10. tricledrown 10
    13 February 2014 at 11:41 am

    JanM he didn’t get his dates wrong neoliberalism rise took place around them But when the Berlin Wall came down that was when their was no turning back.
    George H W Bush ” Now the Berlin wall has come down I promise you their will be a new world order ”
    Bush senior former CIA chief and president.
    The CIA are and have been our puppet masters for some time Now.
    Key and co Act Business round table Cis 5 eyes srylands BM are all part of a carefully orchestrated network who don’t want democracy.
    Economic Feudalism is their Goal.

  11. Draco T Bastard 11
    13 February 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Gordon Campbell on smear tactics in politics

    Smears are the political equivalent of a hit and run. First comes the allegation that hints of skullduggery – Russel Norman and Winston Peters held “secret” meetings with Kim Dotcom! – and then comes the rebuttal. Unfortunately, by the time the rebuttals have been made, the spinmeisters will usually have hit the target and moved on. Patiently, one can explain the difference between the John Banks/John Key issues to do with Dotcom – which in Key’s case, involve admitted breaches of the law by the state’s security services. The questions at stake there – who said what to who, and when – are of substance. They have to do with alleged and/or admitted illegal behaviour by those holding the reins of power in central and local government. They entail culpable failures of judgment and oversight.

  12. Not a PS Staffer 12
    13 February 2014 at 1:30 pm

    Russell Norman has done serious damage to the Green Party and he has damaged his own credibility as a potential coalition partnership leader with Labour.

    The act of visiting DotCom at his Coatesville palace was political stupidity of the highest form.

    If I was Cunliffe I’d tread very very warily with this stupid numpty. Russel Norman is a blind amateur.

    • Roflcopter 12.1
      13 February 2014 at 1:51 pm

      It’s too late for that. The only way Labour get back in power is with the Greens…. and New Zealand know it.

    • grumpy 12.2
      13 February 2014 at 2:21 pm

      Bullshit! Curran has visted there multiple time as have other Labour MPs. It might be a pre-requisite for a ministerial position to HAVE visited KDC.

      • mickysavage 12.2.1
        13 February 2014 at 2:39 pm

        Citation needed. Go ahead Grumpy. Prove it.

        • MaxFletcher 12.2.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 2:45 pm

          Curran has admitted she met him 4 times on twitter. Nothing about his house though

        • veutoviper 12.2.1.2
          13 February 2014 at 3:33 pm

          Clare Curran tweeted last night “In my work, I’ve met @KimDotcom 4 times, including at public events. In NZ, it’s no crime to meet critics of the state.”

          https://twitter.com/clarecurranmp

          Last night, there were many people tweeting whether or not they had met KDC, been to the mansion etc. KDC’s twitter site includes a few, including Clare’s and one from Grant Robertson.

          https://twitter.com/KimDotcom

          Note that contrary to Grumpy’s claim of Clare visiting the mansion multiple times, Clare makes no mention of visiting the mansion.

          EDIt – now see that MaxFletcher already posted Clare’s tweet.

          • Puckish Rogue 12.2.1.2.1
            13 February 2014 at 4:13 pm

            To be fair sending CC out to KDC means nothing I mean I wouldn’t trust her to get fish n chips for dinner

            • AmaKiwi 12.2.1.2.1.1
              13 February 2014 at 11:04 pm

              Nor would David Cunliffe trust her. He has much more reliable, low key people who could do such work for him.

              Just as Key is better off using spies (“detective services”) outside the police and GCSB. Aside from private contractors hired by Key’s friends, the Yanks could doing the spying on KDC and reporting to Key.

              To me, that is much more plausible.

              • Not a PS Staffer …
                14 February 2014 at 11:11 am

                AmaKiwi, Russell Norman hailed a Taxi at Auckland Airport and said:

                “Take me to Kim DotCom’s big Palace out in Coatesville and spare the gas”!

                That is a 45 Km journey by SH1 or a 50 Km journey by SH16. That is a least $125.00 EACH WAY and $57 per hour waiting time. A $350+ gig for the Taxi driver!!!!

                The Taxi driver could have told many people about this generous present from Russell Norman!

                The trip suggests that it is possible Russell Norman went to see Kim DotCom on his own. Stupid if true. Kim DotCom has proven to be toxic to any politician who has met him. Any party leader should have ground well prepared and then have two witnesses in any engagement like this.

                By visiting DotCom at his Palace he put himself in a supplicant like position. Stupid stupid stupid for a Party leader wanting to talk turkey with a non-National who is at the baby steps of setting up a party!
                By not asking DotCom to come to Parliament in Wellington for the meeting Russell Norman suggests that he was playing subterfuge. If you want to play cloak and dagger you don’t hail a cab and asked to be taken to the most talked about house in NZ!

                Russell Norman’s behaviour shows him to be unfit for high office. He is a liability to anyone who engages with him. Labour should maintain a safe distance from this idiot.

                http://www.taxiautofare.com/nz/taxi-fare-card/Auckland-Coop-Taxis-fare

  13. Enough is Enough 13
    13 February 2014 at 1:59 pm

    Mixing with Dotcom is dumb. It has a stench very similar to that when Brash mixed with the Bretheren.

    An enemy of the government does not automatically make that person an ally or friend of the opposition.

    The rights and wrongs of his extradition are irrelevant. He is attempting to use his considerable cash resourses to influence New Zealand politicians and the public. That is known as corruption in other circles.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1
      13 February 2014 at 2:22 pm

      I can recall Sir Bob Jones embarking on a very similar endeavour. He donates to political parties too by all accounts. ACT’s backers much?

    • AmaKiwi 13.2
      13 February 2014 at 11:10 pm

      “He (Dotcom) is attempting to use his considerable cash resources to influence New Zealand politicians and the public. That is known as corruption in other circles.”

      What planet are you from? How about a reality check.

      Elections are fought with money.

  14. bad12 14
    13 February 2014 at 3:36 pm

    Yes of course Slippery the Prime Minister denies that any politician is being ‘watched’ by any Government agency,

    And, of course with a straight face He can do so because Russell Norman and Winston Peters are simply part of the list of people the SIS, who just happen to (a),have a 24 hour watching brief on the Coatsville mansion of DotCom, and (b), have a 24 hour surveillance of DotCom Himself whenever He leaves the Coatsville residence, have gathered as part of that surveillance who have had personal contact with the internet millionaire,

    Slippery has just shot Himself in the foot again, He should obviously have learned to be more careful after the back-fire of the attack on Metiria Turei which exposed those accusing Mets of having the ‘lavish lifestyle’ were rudely exposed as fraudulent liars,

    The allegations having spread from Russell Norman, who the ‘wing-nuts’ fall all over themselves to hate might have made slight political capital for the PM trying to find the props to shore up Nationals sliding support,to Winston Peters who Has in 2 days played Slippery masterfully at His own game, simply gives Winston Peters a very fine and sharp rod which He will use to lash the PM mercilessly,

    On the surface of course this just looks like one large truckload of shit, all of which can be attributed to the fear and machinations of the Beehives 9th floor, being dumped upon the idea of a NZFirst/National coalition emanating from the 2014 election, but, that’s not a given knowing the nature of the game played by Peters,

    Slippery’s latest headlong dive into a large puddle of His own dung by playing fast and loose with the ‘surveillance state’ is laughable and more a suggestion that Slippery has conducted ‘a raid’ on the briefcases of the SIS sharing the contents,

    The pies to Brownlee and the literature kept by the PM Himself where His actions surrounding the perusal of such have both effected His eye-sight and what little is evident of His functioning intellect…

    • Puckish Rogue 14.1
      13 February 2014 at 4:06 pm

      Oh please, John Key is not a member of the Greens or Labour so he has an answer ready to go but I do enjoy the way the Left try to move the focus from dodgy left (possibly corrupt) politicians to how did John Key know…

      Kind of like the Len Brown debacle, don’t focus on what Len Brown did wrong (and there was plenty) but focus on who leaked the information because thats the most important thing

      This is great fun 🙂

      • Tracey 14.1.1
        13 February 2014 at 4:12 pm

        Does this mean you consider john banks to be corrupt?

      • bad12 14.1.2
        13 February 2014 at 4:26 pm

        PR, perhaps you would like to start that one again from the top, your first sentence might make sense to a ‘wing-nut’ like you, but, i never studied gibberish nor ‘loony tunes’ at school so have no means of decyphering the intent of such a sentence,

        Dodgy, possibly corrupt???, how so, i see nothing amiss in Russell Norman approaching DotCom they are obviously both high profile public figures, and, the same can be said of Winston Peters,

        Corrupt, you obviously have no notion of what corruption is, if you cannot raise the testicular fortitude to directly, and, slanderously accuse Russell Norman or Winston Peters of a specific corrupt act you should actually either stick to your normal imbeciles whine or shut the fuck up completely…

        • Puckish Rogue 14.1.2.1
          13 February 2014 at 4:29 pm

          Ok but only because you said so 🙂

          • framu 14.1.2.1.1
            14 February 2014 at 8:04 am

            for it to be corrupt you have to believe keys claim that norman offered to step in re: extradition

            there is no evidence of this, and considering that the greens position re the dot com case has been very consistant for a very long time it doesnt add up – and not once have they claimed they would step in

            its quite simple – consider that for the claimed deal to come about everyone involved, including the dot com camp, would have to first believe the the greens were going to get the minister of justice portfolio and that labour would let them get away with stopping the extradition

            do some basic logic – its a highly unlikely scenario and anyone with a shred of intellect would see that

            now you might not like the greens or dot com, but are you seriously saying that everyone is to thick to figure that out?

            • Tracey 14.1.2.1.1.1
              14 February 2014 at 9:36 am

              doesnt it make sense that the greens might want to talk to dotcom given his platform, such as it is, is stopping privacy invasion etc…

              Is the suggestion that he offered to overturn any extradition if dotcom withdrew from politics?

              I’m surprised Dotcom still thinks he can buy pollies after his failure with banks.

              • framu …
                14 February 2014 at 10:08 am

                “Is the suggestion that he offered to overturn any extradition if dotcom withdrew from politics? ”

                thats my point – that suggestion is only coming from key, but if you think about it its a silly thing to try and offer and its a silly thing to think can be offered – especially if it was coming from a minor party

                how key knows what was discussed is of course another issue that hasnt been asked of him

                politicians meeting anyone isnt a big deal, and the greens saying “it would be nice if you didnt screw us for your own PR goals” isnt a big deal – but everything after that is pure speculation from key and a speculation so daft you would have to be some what foolish to think it has any possibility of coming about

    • srylands 14.2
      13 February 2014 at 7:28 pm

      Good grief.

      • Tracey 14.2.1
        14 February 2014 at 9:30 am

        the football taken away again Charlie Brown?

      • bad12 14.2.2
        14 February 2014 at 9:46 am

        Yes SSLands, ”Good Grief” is reported to be the first words of your mummy upon realizing exactly what it was she had carried and so painfully given birth to for those 9 long months…

        • srylands 14.2.2.1
          14 February 2014 at 10:12 am

          You can’t back that up with data. I can report that Good Grief was the sentiment (or in some cases lots of eye rolling) when I shared 3 samples of your posts with 7 colleages yesterday.

          But you stick with your story about my mother. I know you are far from evidence based.

          • Tracey 14.2.2.1.1
            14 February 2014 at 10:21 am

            God,your colleagues must be thrilled with that… 10 minutes of their lives they will never get back. Slow day in the office? You needed some validation?

          • bad12 14.2.2.1.2
            14 February 2014 at 10:27 am

            Naughty SSLands, you know how your boss feels about you using His computer to make your abysmal and absurd comments online during the time they employ you to count other peoples money for them,

            Get back to work you indentured little peasant, at your age you cannot afford to be given the kick from your current employment as the only other means of you paying off your other enslavement, the mortgage to the bank, would be as an adviser on how clients can rip the tax system, something i am sure you are well equipped to sell with your prior knowledge of that system…

    • AmaKiwi 14.3
      13 February 2014 at 11:14 pm

      “Yes of course Slippery the Prime Minister denies that any politician is being ‘watched’ by any Government agency. And, of course with a straight face.”

      False! Wrong!

      Key said it with a bright RED face.

      “Why are you blushing, Prime Minister?”

      Me thinks something is rotten on Planet Key.

      • bad12 14.3.1
        14 February 2014 at 9:27 am

        AnnaKiwi, False, Wrong???, you choose to nitpick over part of a sentence which was part of a paragraph???,

        Examine the language, blushing by definition has nothing to do with ‘a straight face’, a straight face is where the person making a statement is obviously bullshitting while deliberately keeping their facial expression bland or neutral in the physical sense of being able to suppress any tic or smile,

        Blushing of course is the result of the effort of keeping that straight face where the effort of suppressing that tic, smile, or outright laughter forces blood to the face…

      • karol 14.3.2
        14 February 2014 at 9:41 am

        The whole performance by Key on the Dotcom topic in the video, also reminded me of that “Why are you blushing” exchange between Dotcom and the PM. Key is highly competitive and doesn’t like to lose – this is personal for him. He will do whatever it takes not to be bested by the big guy.

        I couldn’t make out if Key’s face was red for just the first bit of this recent video, or if his face was just summer red through all the topics discussed in the vid.

  15. ianmac 15
    13 February 2014 at 3:45 pm

    Mr Key answers question re Mr Peters’ visits. Notice the big grin throughout. Looked a bit odd for someone who had nothing to hide.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/video.cfm?c_id=280&gal_cid=280&gallery_id=140903

    • veutoviper 15.1
      13 February 2014 at 4:09 pm

      Amazing behaviour – over the top overconfidence. It leds me to suspect that the particular information about Peter’s visits did not come from any of the security agencies per se on this occasion (see my comment at 16). But that is not to say that the spy agencies are not keeping tabs on KDC. Key’s performance almost confirms that IMO.

      And Key’s behaviour changed totally when the questions moved on to the Countdown situation.

    • Puckish Rogue 15.2
      13 February 2014 at 4:11 pm

      Hes smiling because he knows he has nothing to hide or that it can’t be proven he did anything wrong, either way its a win to JK (again) and a lose to the Left (again)

      • One Anonymous Bloke 15.2.1
        13 February 2014 at 5:03 pm

        Unless the Left helps nudge the narrative in the direction of “it can’t be proven…”

        Or nudges the narrative in the direction of the fact that (by his own admission) the Prime Minister is watching you.

        Or some other third thing like the National Party sells New Zealand legislation to its clients, or clings to market failure, or lacks competence (that would be my favourite, since the body of evidence is so compelling).

      • fender 15.2.2
        13 February 2014 at 6:00 pm

        “Hes [sic] smiling because he knows he has nothing to hide…….”

        All that tells me is that you’ve never had children.

      • AmaKiwi 15.2.3
        13 February 2014 at 11:22 pm

        “He (Key) is smiling because he knows he has nothing to hide or that it can’t be proven he did anything wrong, either way its a win to JK (again) and a lose to the Left (again).”

        I have rarely heard such nonsense. Key revealed he has information that can only come from spying. Who spied? We don’t know. But we know they spy for John Key, who also controls our government spies.

        How can that be “win” for anyone boggles the mind.

  16. veutoviper 16
    13 February 2014 at 3:56 pm

    The waters get murkier and murkier.

    It seems rumours of Peters three visits to KDC have been circulating for some time (WO?). Then last Friday mention of these three visits was made in the Herald’s gossip column.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/television/news/article.cfm?c_id=339&objectid=11197715

    The DimPost has a post up about this.

    http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/alternate-theory/

    Rumours (via Twitter etc) are apparently circulating that there are leaks from “the Mansion” … This would tie with the leak via WO of the Bradbury paper re the Internet Party a few weeks agon.

    • Puckish Rogue 16.1
      13 February 2014 at 4:07 pm

      No no you’ve got it all wrong, see what happened was John Key directed the GCSB to spy on Winston Peters and thats how he knows

      • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.1
        13 February 2014 at 4:14 pm

        Doubt it. Key says he hasn’t used official channels, but that his source (singular) is always right. I think he’s telling the truth.

        It’s a revealing statement though. The Prime Minister maintains a personal network of informants outside of official channels. Well duh, of course he should, but the fact is that boasting about it makes him look like a lightweight.

        • Puckish Rogue 16.1.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 4:18 pm

          A lightweight that hangs out with Obama, gets invited to the G20 and has seen off Clark, Goff, Shearer and probably Cunliffe

          Yep hes a lightweight

          • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.1.1.1
            13 February 2014 at 4:27 pm

            Yes, he’s the junior partner in those relationships, but that isn’t really what I meant by “lightweight” – I meant that he has to show off in a most unseemly Aaron Gilmore way – the need to be seen to be in command runs strong in this one.

            That’s why I aimed my criticism at his boasting. Didn’t you pick up on that?

        • veutoviper 16.1.1.2
          13 February 2014 at 4:36 pm

          +1 OAG. Key’s performance in that interview was very revealing and “boasting” was the word I was looking for but could not find when writing my comment at 15.1 above.

        • Anne 16.1.1.3
          13 February 2014 at 4:49 pm

          It isn’t just State run security agencies who conduct surveillance, eaves dropping etc.on individuals. It’s well known big business tycoons are not above doing it too. In their case its illegal of course but they are allowed to get away with it. In fact, it’s not unusual for them to hire former spies to do their dirty work for them. You can bet an arm and a leg Key and co. know where to go for covert assistance when they want to access information without using State collected data.

          • Anne 16.1.1.3.1
            13 February 2014 at 5:12 pm

            Further to my 16.1.1.3.

            Haven’t heard what Winston P is actually saying yet, but remember the Winebox saga? That was a very real example of unlawful surveillance by well known business tycoons who were involved in that affair. Wonder if there is a bit of utu going on here. Peters ain’t popular with those tycoons and some are still around in NZ.

            • PapaMike 16.1.1.3.1.1
              14 February 2014 at 2:14 pm

              Most of the “Tycoons” in the Winebox affair have left New Zealand, some now living in Switzerland and London, or have died – it was some years ago.

        • AmaKiwi 16.1.1.4
          13 February 2014 at 11:50 pm

          “informants” or paid spies?

        • framu 16.1.1.5
          14 February 2014 at 8:07 am

          “but that his source (singular) is always right”

          not only that – key has said “and it turns out he was right” – ie: key didnt actually know if it was correct when he went running to the media

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2
      13 February 2014 at 4:09 pm

      HUMINT, not SIGINT.

    • bad12 17.1
      13 February 2014 at 4:46 pm

      Fair enough commentary from Vernon Small, i see Russell’s comments surrounding the likely/unlikely extradition of DotCom to the US as not a mistake of content but more a mistake of form,

      Knowing what i and we all know of the States illegal actions surrounding the ‘DotCom case’ if i was a Judge in any Court of Law i would simply throw the whole lot into the dustbin and tll the Crown to come back when it can act in a lawful manner,

      i say that as a human who sees it as an obvious that where the State has used illegal means to gather evidence against any citizen then this must make any case that State attempts to make null and void,

      That was Russell Norman’s one little mistake of form, speaking as a human it is obvious that Russell is of the same opinion as i am,

      Unfortunately politics would demand of Russell that He always has to be aware when talking in public of the fact that He has to put aside somewhat His humanity and always think of the political ramifications of what He says…

  18. burt 18
    13 February 2014 at 4:56 pm

    It’s ironic that the three parties who have made the most noise about big money in elections are all found to have been rather cosy (and secretive about it ) with a billionaire who wants a change of government. Funny also that Winston seems to be the focus for this when he has been proven in the past to have been dishonest about declaring donations and had a secret trust – the exact things he accused National of.

    Labour, The Green Party & Winston First have so much egg on their faces over this that it’s not surprising they are now trying to make a deal of how Key knew – the real issue is they are having secret meetings with a billionaire who wants a change of government.

    But sure – how did Key know – lets play the diversion game !

    • fender 18.1
      13 February 2014 at 5:03 pm

      Key also knows about you and that other donkey having liaisons.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 18.2
      13 February 2014 at 5:11 pm

      Labour have been cosy with Dotcom?

      [citation needed]

      As for the Greens and Winston, citations are also needed to establish that “meeting with = cosy with”, because that would mean that the Syrian “rebels” are cosy with the Opthalmologist.

      • felix 18.2.1
        13 February 2014 at 8:34 pm

        …and applying the same logic – because we know burt dislikes partisanship – who does that make John Key “cosy” with?

        • burt 18.2.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 9:14 pm

          Shall I spell it out. Key was his usual slippery self when questioned if he had had meetings with Dotcom. He denied knowing about him even which was absolutely laughable. I’m pretty comfortable that Key had meetings with Dotcom, as did Norman, what’s his name labour leader and jolly old forgetful Winston.

          I’m laughing my bloody head off though at all these hacks who have bagged Key for being slippery defending Winston’s privacy.

          Where do you stand Felix ?

          • felix 18.2.1.1.1
            13 February 2014 at 10:29 pm

            Sorry burt that’s not very clear at all.

            Nobody has bagged Key for requesting that his meetings with Dotcom remain private; they’ve bagged him because he (appears to have) systematically lied about them ever happening.

            Why are you laughing about that?

    • framu 18.3
      14 February 2014 at 8:08 am

      “the real issue is they are having secret meetings with a billionaire who wants a change of government. ” come in mr gibbs your time is up

  19. ScottGN 19
    13 February 2014 at 5:08 pm

    What I’m struggling to understand is what reasons could the PM have for wanting to push this issue back into the limelight? I mean he spent most of last year either dodging questions on this or being forced to offer abject apologies for the incompetent and possibly illegal actions of his own spy agencies (and the police). Also I suppose that any info from GCSB or whatever agency would be provided to the PM via a third party which would then give everyone plausible deniability?

    • Colonial Viper 19.1
      13 February 2014 at 5:30 pm

      Quite possibly the specific issue is of secondary importance to that of confirming to opposition politicians (and to KDC) that Key has intel and is not afriad to use it in an election year.

    • Tracey 19.2
      13 February 2014 at 6:08 pm

      The recent revelation that relevant gcsb files have been “archived” ? Given key a false sense of security?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 19.2.1
        13 February 2014 at 6:24 pm

        The NSA will be required to keep the files (since let’s face it, the GCSB has to apply to them for access). If any deletion has occurred at this end it is entirely a local matter.

        Five eyes. Not four eyes with one that goes to sleep.

  20. well I never 20
    13 February 2014 at 5:20 pm

    Huge difference between being called on meeting with people when something is to be gained, like giving them a top job, or receiving vast sums of money, but really, do politicians need to be spied on for simply meeting with people?
    It is a privacy issue, just like journalists swipe cards and phone records being checked, no-one can operate in a climate of McCarthyism, very scary

    • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1
      13 February 2014 at 5:25 pm

      It’s a classic paradox.

      Say, for example, there arose a Prime Minister who sold New Zealand legislation to overseas business interests. Would they not be a suitable national security surveillance target?

      Aren’t the spies supposed to help protect us against double agents?

      • burt 20.1.1
        13 February 2014 at 5:36 pm

        I think you need to acknowledge that the spies serve the government not the people – that’s why we need to vote based on more than who will spend more of own own money on us/for us.

        We had an MP arrange tax cuts for the racing industry once, then a year later it came out in the wash that said MP had accepted donations from a wealthy racing family and not declared them – these types of ‘policy for cash’ people must be kept from ever being in politics again.

      • Colonial Viper 20.1.2
        13 February 2014 at 5:36 pm

        Assuming that government spies are loyal to the ordinary citizenry, and not to the elite power structures.

        Strike that, when you look at the behaviour of the UK, US, German, French services it’s pretty clear which side they are on. And its not the plebs.

        • burt 20.1.2.1
          13 February 2014 at 5:45 pm

          Indeed, In serving the government they should be serving the people – but when the government is self serving – they are only serving the government. The challenge is getting partisan people to look objectively at their own party of preference and call for them to be as accountable on such matters as they say “the other team” should be.

  21. Flip 21
    13 February 2014 at 5:39 pm

    What makes these meetings secret? Did they go in disguise in the middle of the night? Exactly how Winnie would disguise himself boggles the mind. Did they tell people they were off to the beach for the day or eating lunch at the time? Will there be some secret rendezvous in the future to avoid scrutiny? Have they developed a sophisticated code, dead drops, secret bank accounts? Who is the mole giving information to the Nats? The Internet Party will need to do an internal investigation to uncover the traitor and do a sweep for bugs, increase its security, release the hounds. So many questions what a great diversion. This is the media at its finest feeding the public’s insatiable appetite for gossip. Probing for all the details. Are they going to stake out KDC mansion and eat burgers and coke in their car? Will they employ sophisticated intelligence gathering equipment? Binoculars, telephoto lenses for proof, leave microphones and record devices around, question staff with the aid of that truth revealing drug coffee (perhaps tea would be better), diverting the guard dogs with chewy tidbits (Oh right Key is doing that to the media). It is just like the movies.

  22. well I never 22
    13 February 2014 at 6:13 pm

    or maybe there is a more benign solution, JK is, in fact a reptilian shapeshifter, and it wasn’t KDC Winston met, but JK in disguise

    • burt 22.1
      13 February 2014 at 6:18 pm

      Based on previous form – If Winston starts accusing Key of this then we can know with 100% certainty that Winston is.

  23. Ad 23
    13 February 2014 at 6:37 pm

    Bad luck no conspiracy – Key categorically rules out using the security agencies.

    Far more prosaic: Coatesville is a tight community, wall to wall Nats, and many of them have contacts to the PM.

    • well I never 23.1
      13 February 2014 at 6:47 pm

      oh come on Ad, you are saying it’s down to curtain twitching, although come to think of it, Nats do talk like my granny (3 generations ago thinking)

      • Ad 23.1.1
        13 February 2014 at 7:02 pm

        Coatesville is the Stepford Wives club of the Waitemata Trust.
        Key’s intel empire in Auckland’s north is better than anything gcsb could even dream of.

      • idlegus 23.1.2
        13 February 2014 at 7:03 pm

        ha, c’mon, if key had said “peters has been to see dotcom” that might have been believable, but he specifically said “three times”, & that turns out to be three times in two years. key couldn’t help himself, he’s losing his political nous, there’s more to come i am sure.

    • McFlock 23.2
      13 February 2014 at 7:01 pm

      lol
      You think key making a categorical statement is a reliable indicator of the facts?

      Basically, from now on he’s got a secret that he refuses to say. If he ever accuses someone of lying, or not being ready with the truth, the response is “that’s rich from someone who refuses to say how he tracks the routine activities of opposition MPs”.

    • Colonial Viper 23.3
      13 February 2014 at 7:34 pm

      Far more prosaic: Coatesville is a tight community, wall to wall Nats, and many of them have contacts to the PM.

      Odd the PM claims to have never heard of Dotcom before, then 😈

      • burt 23.3.1
        13 February 2014 at 7:53 pm

        Exactly. That nails it really. See this is the problem, partisan people unquestioningly accept what their leaders say. How many National party muppets are sitting around now believing that other National loyal people saw or heard and passed that message on.

        Dotcom has no case to answer here. All standing politicians who have been dishonest to the public and the house about their meetings with Dotcom have a case to answer. The reality is that’s all MPs ( or their staff ) who have meet Dotcom because none of them have been straight up about it from the get go.

        • well I never 23.3.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 7:58 pm

          as long as they tell us when they give people they know privately a job (excluding other potential candidates) or if they receive vast sums of money from them, I don’t care who they meet…it’s a free country?

          • burt 23.3.1.1.1
            13 February 2014 at 8:03 pm

            Then you have no issues with Key being less than upfront about his meetings with Dotcom then ?

            • karol 23.3.1.1.1.1
              13 February 2014 at 8:08 pm

              Key’s obfuscations re-Dotcom related to surveillance, court cases and illegalities – possible collusions with NSA – totally different from MPs talking to residents about their issues and concerns.

              • burt …
                13 February 2014 at 8:15 pm

                karol

                Given Winston initially called to kick Dotcom out then changed his tune, presumably after meeting him and discussing the same things. How is it different, they are both elected MP’s.

                • Tracey …
                  14 February 2014 at 8:51 am

                  Key has arguably committed deceit in relation to a serious secret unit in NZ. A unit who can do some stuff, or not, with a nod from the PM. No genuine oversight. If you can’t see how that is different to meeting with dotcom I can’t help you.

                  For all his faults, and I am sure he has many, Winston has been consistent on one thing, trying to root out coverups. From the winebox to Key’s denials of knowing of Dotcom to possible misuse of secret service and their information. This would be right up winston’s alley.

                  In the whole Glen/Peters affair no one suggested Winston ever meeting with Glen was wrong.

      • Ad 23.3.2
        13 February 2014 at 7:56 pm

        Yes, i’d allow him strategic deniability on that one

      • Tracey 23.3.3
        14 February 2014 at 8:46 am

        touche

        stepford wives camped outside dotcom’s residence on the offchance for 2 years… think that’s the most implausable explanation so far. remember it is someone who has told him stuff before…

    • Murray Olsen 23.4
      13 February 2014 at 8:42 pm

      Coatesville can’t be all that tight, seeing how Key never found out that an oversized foreign billionaire with a penchant for publicity had set himself up in a mansion there. Can’t have it both ways, Ad.

  24. Anne 24
    13 February 2014 at 7:58 pm

    Key has a network of informants which he probably began cultivating even before he became leader of the National Party. That is a given. He even put one of them in charge of the GCSB. He doesn’t have to rely on the State spies for his information. Most of the info. would reach him through a variety of conduits – both electronic as well as human sources. He semi -jokingly alluded to his top drawer being full of info ‘people’ had given him. It’s more like a very solid safe – hidden behind a picture on his office wall? 🙂

    I’m inclined to believe that light-hearted comment was really a veiled threat to certain individuals and one of them was probably Dotcom.

    A truly nasty bastard who would stoop to anything in order to hold on to his power.

    • well I never 24.1
      13 February 2014 at 8:10 pm

      As a 10 yr old he worked out that he needed to learn golf to get rich, a truly strategic, ambitious, sharp and determined young man. Sad he put this all into his only obvious value of having a good time and getting rich, regardless of others. A truly vacuous individual.

    • greywarbler 24.2
      13 February 2014 at 9:17 pm

      What’s on that picture Anne? Is it old-fashioned classical like The Laughing Cavalier, new modernism The Scream, Mona Lisa and her knowing smile…
      Possibly Dick Frizzell’s painting (in reverse for Jokeyhen) Tiki to Mickey
      http://www.prints.co.nz/page/fine-art/CTGY/Kiwiana

      Or perhaps some Art prints through Antony Ellis, they supply to television, films yhat sounds very me thinks Johnny.
      http://blog.prints.co.nz/2010/07/vintage-new-zealand-posters-from-nz.html

      • Anne 24.2.1
        13 February 2014 at 9:29 pm

        Nah… it’ll be a picture of his gated mansion in Hawaii complete with a few coconut trees and some flax bushes. (Do flax bushes grow in Hawaii?) Anyway it’ll be unsophisticated, vision-less and lacking any artistic qualities – just like himself.

        • greywarbler 24.2.1.1
          13 February 2014 at 9:38 pm

          I know – it will be that picture of him emerging like a taniwha from his swimming pool, hair slick like an old hollywood actor brylcreem’d down, and with his nice looking bach (mansion) at the back of the pic. And that smug wouldn’t you like to be me, well you can’t because you’ll never be as smart as me – look. (My impression.)

        • veutoviper 24.2.1.2
          13 February 2014 at 10:27 pm

          Anne, maybe it is this old school photo of John Key – bottom left. LOL. Cannot believe it is our PM.

          http://t.co/hWNXaXk5NV

          Found this on Twitter yesterday. Tweeted by https://twitter.com/hdpaNEWS on Feb10.

      • Tracey 24.2.2
        14 February 2014 at 8:52 am

        dogs playing pool

  25. xtasy 25
    13 February 2014 at 8:02 pm

    The SOURCE of the information that Key got about Peters’ visits to Dotcom may be close to Dotcom!

    Remember Pat Gowers piece on TV3 last night:

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Dotcom-brain-fade-spreads-to-Opposition/tabid/1607/articleID/331969/Default.aspx

    “Dotcom told 3 News today he’s faced threats of blackmail to shut down his party but wouldn’t give further details.

    He’s split with his bodyguard and right-hand man Wayne Tempero, and other security staff have left too. Dotcom says it’s amicable and that Mr Tempero has signed a confidentiality agreement.

    Meanwhile, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters is still keeping his visits confidential.

    “Look I saw your article last night. It is a crock of crap,” says Mr Peter.

    “He’s been there three times,” says Mr Key.”

    Now if Gower is right with Tempero and other security staff leaving Dotcom, what is the reason for that? Is Dotcom under financial pressures, so they did not get paid? OR has one perhaps disclosed something very confidential, and therefore has been “sacked”, along with others, who may have been tied in somehow?

    Wayne Tempero was working for Dotcom for many years, and seemed to be very loyal. Perhaps somehow he or another staff member whispered something to Rachel Glucina, that they were not authorised to?

    I doubt that Key would use GCSB info, even if he had it, and then make his claims. He must be sure of having his back covered. Also now knowing about his adversary Dotcom living in his electorate, Key and his electorate office will surely be keeping a close watch and their ears tipped on Dotcom and what goes on in Coatesville!

    That is my tip re the source!

    • Colonial Viper 25.1
      13 February 2014 at 8:18 pm

      Wayne Tempero was working for Dotcom for many years, and seemed to be very loyal. Perhaps somehow he or another staff member whispered something to Rachel Glucina, that they were not authorised to?

      Or Tempero made security recommendations to Dotcom which Dotcom refused to follow, and in refusing, Tempero felt compromised in his ability to keep Dotcom and his family safe.

      Regardless, its a big problem for KDC.

      • burt 25.1.1
        13 February 2014 at 9:10 pm

        So the big issue though, do we accept our politicians secretly visiting exiled billionaires with political aspirations ?

      • burt 25.1.2
        13 February 2014 at 9:18 pm

        Don’t get me wrong CV, our MP’s can meet whoever they want, that’s their right. But like I said above, none have been upfront about their involvement. Once KDC made his political aspirations public, they as politicians had an obligation to be honest and complete in the house about it. None of them were. It’s a disgrace.

        • Colonial Viper 25.1.2.1
          13 February 2014 at 9:23 pm

          Huh?

          You want MPs to make an announcement in the House every single time they meet with some random person who has political aspirations??? What?

          • burt 25.1.2.1.1
            13 February 2014 at 9:29 pm

            No, but when questioned they should answer truthfully. The conventions of parliament do still require questions to be answered truthfully don’t they? Or did when throw that out after all the privileges committee could do for misleading the house was slap old man Winston on the wrist.

            • framu 25.1.2.1.1.1
              14 February 2014 at 9:21 am

              “No, but when questioned they should answer truthfully.”

              pretty sure they did – i havent seen anyone trying to say they didnt meet with KDC

            • David H 25.1.2.1.1.2
              16 February 2014 at 6:21 pm

              Burt said…… No, but when questioned they should answer truthfully. The conventions of parliament do still require questions to be answered truthfully don’t they?

              Pity no one told Key and co about that. Honesty, Key don’t know the meaning of the word!

      • PapaMike 25.1.3
        14 February 2014 at 2:24 pm

        Heard it was a money problem with Tempero – not sure about the other four security guards leaving though – could also be money. Tempero believed setting up his own Security Company and the others may have followed him.

        • veutoviper 25.1.3.1
          14 February 2014 at 3:12 pm

          Papamike, the source for a number of your comments today seem to be today’s The Diary collumn in the Herald by Rachel Glucina.

          Why don’t you say so and provide a link, then people won’t keep asking for your source (eg Tracey at 2.2.4.1)

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11201739

          After Lorde and her pimples selfie, Rachel provides more detail re Peters and others visits to the KDC Mansion – including Clare Curran’s two visits. (Rachel’s column last Friday was where she reported that Peters had been there three times. She had also earlier reported Norman’s visits.)

          Rachel seems to have a lot of detail as to what goes on at the Mansion and her column today goes into detail about Tempero’s departure last October and the departure of four more security people last weekend.

          As Karol has also obviously discovered (see 32 below), the ongoing tweets between MSM journalists and others (including Hooten, Cactus Kate, Graeme Edgeler etc) are fascinating and revealing. And a source of information, speculation etc well before it hits the presses. It can become quite obsessive as I have discovered in the last few days!

          For example, today Rachel Glucina has tweeted* that the new PR person for the Interenet party has an interesting side job – Natural Burials. Presumably this person
          http://www.naturalburials.co.nz/index.php?page=whoWeAre

          * https://twitter.com/RachelGlucinaNZ

          So where does Rachel really fit into the picture? Where does she get her information?

          • Murray Olsen 25.1.3.1.1
            14 February 2014 at 5:08 pm

            Yuck. I looked at her twitter feed. What a load of incestuous gossiping wannabes. Priests and priestesses of the cult of Key, who all delight in the thought that they might know something kept from the common people. Yuck. Hell would be a party with that lot as guests.

            • veutoviper 25.1.3.1.1.1
              14 February 2014 at 9:18 pm

              Well said, Murray O. Even showers have not made me feel clean over the last few days since i have found the ” inner circle” on Twitter. I am hoping that it will explode or implode. Don’t care which. But these are the ….. who are trying to shape our (NZ’s) future?

              Have had to take time out today.. Being a F, retail therapy has helped although I cannot afford it. But now have almost finished negotiating to add a new female parrot to my menagerie to ease the pain of the death six months ago of the partner of one of my flock. The latter has more integrity, compassion, manners etc than the whole of that ‘inner circle’ and the current government put together.

  26. Tinshed 26
    13 February 2014 at 8:56 pm

    Jeez people, I get that you think John Key is a corrupt, Nixon-esk, Tory, devil-incarnate money dealing rich prick who would sell his grandmother for a mere shilling, but is what the Left has been reduced to? Personality and conspiracy-based politics? There was a time when the Left had the intellectual high-ground and could mount an argument based on a deep understanding of the inherent contradictions of capitalist system. Now all I can see is a belief that John Key (Shon-Key, geddit?) used the GSCB to gain and use information on Kim Dotcom for political purposes. What fantasy world do you live in? Jeez, it is so frustrating to see such a paucity of intellectual rigour and analysis that many of you are reduced to such delusionist fantasies. Seriously, how many voters in New Zealand in the second decade of the 21st century think like this? I’ll tell you what, not many. Please, for the love of the great Socialist tradition I know of, stop this personality-based dislike of John Key and articulate a vision of a better and more decent society.

    • Tracey 26.1
      14 February 2014 at 8:57 am

      “Personality and conspiracy-based politics? ”

      Been asleep during the last two weeks while Tolley, Collins, and key have played personality based politics”?

      Can you show me your proof that Labour or Greens have been indulging in it during this past two weeks?

      methinks you doth protest on behalf of socialism too much.

      • framu 26.1.1
        14 February 2014 at 9:22 am

        im calling concern trool on that one

        • Tracey 26.1.1.1
          14 February 2014 at 9:29 am

          that’s the phrase. I couldnt recall what the official name for that was.

        • Enough is Enough 26.1.1.2
          14 February 2014 at 9:33 am

          He has a point

          • Tracey 26.1.1.2.1
            14 February 2014 at 9:41 am

            which is???

            that people on a forum survey the possibilities of a piece of political play? because labour, to my knowledge, and the greens, haven’t stopped int he last two weeks despite personality politics by tolley, collins and Key.

          • framu 26.1.1.2.2
            14 February 2014 at 10:15 am

            he might have a point – but his whole rant is looking at only one question raised of many, and the most extreme question at that. Hes also ignoring the rest of the debate re: is it really that big a deal once we ignore JKs unproven shouting

            its like saying “yeah but that guy shat in their washing machine” when everyone else is talking about what happened at the party in general

        • veutoviper 26.1.1.3
          14 February 2014 at 9:36 am

          +1. And PG has put Tinshed’s comment up on KB in the “Where Key got his information from” post, calling it “some sense from Tinshed on The Standard”.

          PG has now past the 21,000 mark on comments on KB. They’re welcome to him.

          Now shower time.

  27. Wayne McIndoe 27
    13 February 2014 at 9:08 pm

    I would be asking some hard questions about what Key and Obama discussed during their round of golf recently, ie the TPP, that agreement which we are been suckered into has more bearing on NZs future than whether Peters and Dotcom have a meeting – come on media get your prioitities right

  28. RedBaronCV 28
    13 February 2014 at 9:13 pm

    So where’s the money coming from to pay for Key’s private surveillanvce network?

    • AmaKiwi 28.1
      13 February 2014 at 11:55 pm

      You don’t think there are individuals, corporations, and business groups that are dreading the prospect of a Labour/Green government.

      They write it off as a business expense.

  29. RedRobin 29
    13 February 2014 at 9:15 pm

    “The spies have always laced their briefings to the Prime Minister with political titbits,”

    Source? Link or you are bullshitting.

  30. burt 30
    13 February 2014 at 9:46 pm

    I think we need a snap election. 6 weeks of this utter madness where the politicians are running around denying stuff they have been doing themselves while accusing others of it. Calling for others to resign for telling lies and then when all caught to be lying decide nobody has to resign and we should all move on.

    • AmaKiwi 30.1
      14 February 2014 at 12:10 am

      First we need to hear from the Ed Snowden files. There have been embarrassing revelations about the other four eyes, but not yet NZ. I am waiting for some juicy revelations just before our election.

      With Kim Dotcom’s trial and Ed Snowden waiting in the wings, it could be a year of delightful surprises.

      • chris73 30.1.1
        14 February 2014 at 7:30 am

        You do know its been nearly a decade of “waiting for revelations” which never, ever arrive about JK

        Seriously there no revelations out there, if there were they would have come up long ago but hey if it makes you happy keep on believing

        • Tracey 30.1.1.1
          14 February 2014 at 8:58 am

          No one said they would be about ket Chris, but about NZ…. under his watch and probably under Clark’s.

  31. Jenny 31
    14 February 2014 at 8:28 am

    ““Where did John Key get his information that Winston visited DotCom three times?” Most likely source it seems to me is the GCSB”
    Mike Smith

    Tom Scott offers an alternative scenario….LOL!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/cartoons/6736460/Tom-Scott-and-others

    • Tracey 31.1
      14 February 2014 at 8:59 am

      LOLOLOL

    • ianmac 31.2
      14 February 2014 at 9:31 am

      Perhaps that is why Mr Key looked so weird during his denial interview with media yesterday when they were asking how did he know. He must have been bursting with pride at how he spent his time with his binocular. Me! Me! Me!

  32. karol 32
    14 February 2014 at 11:32 am

    An editor at RadioLive has recently tweeted this:

    So the PM just more or less admitted @Whaleoil was his source on Winston Peters’ visit to the Dotcom mansion. They speak regularly.

    And this:

    @CactusKate2 @Whaleoil no smear. He rang Slater.

    And this:

    Mr Key says he speaks to “lots” of bloggers regularly. Obviously Whale, @dpfdpf. anyone else wanna fess up?

    Gotta say, Key has never called me. I’m gutted that he rates me as so insignificant!

    • karol 32.1
      14 February 2014 at 11:36 am

      And a reply to above radio live editor, Jessica Williams:

      @mizjwilliams @dpfdpf I imagine he doesn't mean @publicaddress, @gtiso, The Standard, the Daily Blog …

      • karol 32.1.1
        14 February 2014 at 11:55 am

        Plausible deniability: GCSG/SIS to PM office; PM staffer to gossip columnist; gossip columnist to WO; WO to PM; to “I didn’t get the info from the surveillance services or the police.”

        Edit: It seems now WO has a mention of the twitter conversations on its/his site, and is citing “The Standard” as a source!

        What sort of circular shell game is this? Smoke & mirrors.

        • Anne 32.1.1.1
          14 February 2014 at 12:59 pm

          WO has a mention of the twitter conversations on its/his site, and is citing “The Standard” as a source!

          He’s confusing informed/educated guessing with fact. Let’s face it he wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.

          • karol 32.1.1.1.1
            14 February 2014 at 1:08 pm

            Well, he maybe just picked up on my copy of tweets as above- though the tweets included in his post includes only one I copied, and a couple of others. But he has his source as “The Standard” at the bottom of the post.

            I’m still trying to find a direct source as evidence of Jessica William’s claim.

      • Tracey 32.1.2
        14 February 2014 at 1:57 pm

        have you email jessica williams and asked?

    • Tracey 32.2
      14 February 2014 at 12:49 pm

      Pm regularly speaks to bloggers??????? Did key ask Slater for proof? And what was the source of the proof? Or does slater have people followed? I thought Slater had no money?

      C’mon, even Key’s supporters must see it’s a sad day when PM has time to read and ring bloggers, particularly Slater?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 32.3
      14 February 2014 at 3:27 pm

      Makes a big deal of refusing to deal with Winston Peters. Deals with Cameron Slater. I wonder if they talk about ferals.

  33. tricledrown 33
    14 February 2014 at 12:17 pm

    Tempero is a nasty little Narcissit.

  34. tricledrown 34
    14 February 2014 at 12:17 pm

    Tempero is a nasty little Narcissit.

  35. Puckish Rogue 35
    14 February 2014 at 12:43 pm

    Most likely source it seems to me is the GCSB. I think Winston may have a point about his right to privacy.

    – Yeah so it ends up being a gossip columnist (Rachel Glucina) and NZs most read, most influential political blog (Whaleoil)

    • Tracey 35.1
      14 February 2014 at 12:47 pm

      are you saying slater was following peters, or someone who followed peters told slater?

      • Puckish Rogue 35.1.1
        14 February 2014 at 2:02 pm

        Well it must be the GCSB then (yeah thats sarcasm)

        • Tracey 35.1.1.1
          14 February 2014 at 2:03 pm

          was the question too hard?

          • Puckish Rogue 35.1.1.1.1
            14 February 2014 at 2:27 pm

            Most likely someone who used to work for KDC is telling whats happened and someones passed it on to either Rachel or Whaleoil

            So all the lefties on here breathlessly hoping JK was using the GCSB are hopefully feeling pretty dumb right about now

            • McFlock 35.1.1.1.1.1
              14 February 2014 at 2:50 pm

              So how was key so sure it was true?

              • Puckish Rogue …
                14 February 2014 at 2:57 pm

                Must be the GCSB, its the only possible answer

                • McFlock …
                  14 February 2014 at 3:02 pm

                  Not at all, but it is one of the few reasons key would be reluctant to say where he gets his information about the activities of his political opponents.

                  Even if he received the information in a perfectly legitimate manner, his behaviour makes him look like a blackmailer and sleaze merchant.

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    14 February 2014 at 3:08 pm

                    No it doesn’t it looks like he reads newspapers and probably checked out the veracity of the information

                    Doesn’t change that Labour and the Greens are now compromised over this

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      14 February 2014 at 3:11 pm

                      Peters and Norman meet with KDC and this says what about Labour?

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      14 February 2014 at 3:15 pm

                      Don’t forget Curran and Ardern and thats only the ones who’ve ‘fessed up, there’ll probably be more

                    • McFlock …
                      14 February 2014 at 3:20 pm

                      What sources did he use to “check veracity”. The only way to “check veracity” is additional sources, because he’d be a fucking moron to believe gossip columns and WO.

                      So how did he know the unadvertised movements of his political opponents? Why is he so coy about simply stating how he got the information? Don’t we have a right to know if the PM is deploying the state security agencies against his political opponents?

                      MPs visiting one of the most significant figures in current events at the moment is not surprising. What’s surprising is that the PM apparently runs secret surveillance on his opponents.

                    • karol …
                      14 February 2014 at 3:24 pm

                      MPs meeting well known people is not a crime.

                      You really are stretching it PR.

                      Ardern meet KDC at a public occasion.

                      She tweeted:

                      @BillyRalston @Whaleoil @clarecurranmp @KimDotcom we were at the franklin road lights at the same time if that’s what you mean!

                      Curran ? Who cares who she meets. Will she still be an MP come the end of the year?

                      Righties really must be stuck for spin if this is all they can come up with.

                    • McFlock …
                      14 February 2014 at 3:31 pm

                      the other thing is that curran’s associate comms and IT spokesperson? And isn’t KDC an internet industry player and a possible new transpacific fibre cable competitor?

                      Personalities aside, seems common sense the two should meet.

                      Frankly, it would be remiss of whichever nactoid is IT minister to not have talked with kdc about the sector.

                  • xtasy …
                    14 February 2014 at 3:21 pm

                    “his behaviour makes him look like a blackmailer and sleaze merchant…”

                    Is this anything new in the behaviour of JK??? He has been involved in sleaze most the time (behind the scenes), but has the incredible skill to look totally innocent, unblemished and a like a “credible” politician.

                    At least he now admits he regularly talks with “bloogers” of the types of Whaleoil! So guess what he may have been up to over the last 5 years, and how important the Whale’s role has been in keeping the jerk in power.

                    • McFlock …
                      14 February 2014 at 3:27 pm

                      true, but I reckon he’s fluffed it a bit this time – blushing, evasive, “I don’t have to say”, and it involves possible long term spying or keeping tabs on his opponents rather than the occasional scandal “dropped in his lap”, as it were.

                      He fucked it with the “three times” lark – even once would have done it, and he could have dragged out further meetings in the ensuing debate. And that once could have been someone passing in a car who recognised peters’ car pulling in. Coming out with all three means ongoing tabs kept by someone, whom key refuses to name or even indicate the legitimacy of the way they obtained the info.

                      Losing his mojo.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      14 February 2014 at 3:39 pm

                      +1

                      “I have lost count of how many times my constituents have approached me on this matter, but I’m sure the Prime Minister has a tally.”

                    • xtasy …
                      14 February 2014 at 3:41 pm

                      Yes, I agree re the “3 times” comment, as that is information that one does not get by “coincidence”, like from hearsay from some odd witnesses, who may have seen or heard something around the vicinity.

                      It makes it sound and look, as if he was absolutely sure about the frequency, the number of times, and that Peters went to see Dotcom. That is information not gathered by coincidence and so it must come from a totally reliable source.

                      Whaleoil will only have got the info due to being a core gossip and info gatherer, from other sources.

                      I still doubt that it was the GCSB, but we will never know for sure, as these matters will never be publicly revealed and discussed. It will be certain that the GCSB and SIS continue their “watch” of Dotcom, so they will know more than anyone else, possibly also working closely with police.

                      Dotcom seems to have been a bit “naive” on this, being a bit on a “high” with his legal team achieving what they did. As a new and smart migrant, he will know some stuff about how New Zealand agencies work, but he will still not really know how all encompassing they work in their surveillance activities.

                      But re this info, I suspect the source to be close to Dotcom himself. His wife will be one of the four who may know about Peters’ visits, but she will never reveal such stuff, given her discrete manner and loyalty, then there will be at least one or two of Dotcom’s security staff, Dotcom himself, Winston himself, and nobody else, unless Peters was driven there by a chauffeur or taxi driver.

                      We can narrow the circles, and we can suspect that Key may have got a “double check” confirmed by Ian Fletcher, as his old school buddy.

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      14 February 2014 at 3:55 pm

                      From the ODT:

                      There are suspicions of a link between the number of questions being asked around Mr Dotcom and the conclusion the Opposition is seeking political favours from the man who has promised to start the Internet Party – but then added that he would not run in the election if the polling is less than the 5% MMP threshold (followed up by stating the party would be a contender in the election).

                      Parliamentary records show Labour MP Trevor Mallard has asked 132 questions regarding Mr Dotcom, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters 82, Labour MP David Shearer 36, deputy Labour leader Grant Robertson 17 and Green co-leader Russel Norman 13.

                      But please by all means focus on how did JK know? (I mean how did John Key know now that the GCSB have been ruled out)

                    • xtasy …
                      14 February 2014 at 4:22 pm

                      Pukish Rogue at 03.55 pm today:

                      Have a read of this, coming from someone who was involved in early discussions about Dotcom’s “Internet.Party”:

                      http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/02/13/on-russel-norman-and-the-internet-party/

                      “The idea to collapse the Internet Party if it hadn’t reached 5% by the ballot printing was always the plan. I don’t think people appreciate how much Kim loathes Key and Kim didn’t want to launch a political vehicle that wasted any votes or accidentally helped Key stay in power.”

                      There are NO DEALS, my friend, NO DEALS, that Dotcom would have made with the Greens, NZ First, Labour or anyone that is an MP from those parties.

                      You can bet on it that Peters went there to hear from the accused himself, what all the stuff about the illegal raid, the accusations, the ideas of an new party and so forth was all about. And Russell Norman met Dotcom at public events before, he would not be so silly to get too cosy with a man that still is somewhat controversial. He will also have wanted to discuss certain stuff about what happened, and what unintended consequences the “Internet.Party” may have on other parties wanting to get rid of this rotten government we have.

                      Dotcom is more of a libertarian by the way, so hardly a “lefty”. So what about the ones from “the right” who saw him, and what for?

                      Now let us ask again, what has Key discussed with well-known UK right wing political spin masters, with certain ones from Australia, with business leaders from here, there and elsewhere, and what did he discuss with Obama during his golf rounds??? Why does the media not dig into that, I ask? Because they are blind one eye that is!

                    • McFlock …
                      14 February 2014 at 5:57 pm

                      @puke rogue

                      The opposition asked questions about a prominent New Zealander who was spied on illegally by the GCSB and is currently involved in several politically important court cases, including the current prosecution of a government MP?

                      That’s fucking fishy, MPs doing their jobs like that. I can understand how you as a nactoid would be expecting to see corrupt motives for competent work by an elected representative, but that’s just your fucked-in-the-head worldview.

    • Pascal's bookie 35.2
      14 February 2014 at 12:56 pm

      Explaining is often losing they reckon, but when your explanation about ‘not spying’ is

      ‘nah, I’m mates with that dude who laughs at dead babies, is fighting a defamtion suit and says that politics is nasty so you have to be nasty in politics’

      then yeah, you’re losing.

  36. captain hook 36
    14 February 2014 at 1:40 pm

    It cant have been slater following pweters as the trail of wail blubber would still be there.
    but moreimportantly donkeyohtay demanded in this mornings dompost that Peters tell us what they talked about.
    What the fuck is going on and why has this piece of crap had souch influence on NZpolitics.
    He is nothing but a thief and now a trouble maker.
    only in New Zealnd.anywhere else and he would have had the bums rush months ago.

    • xtasy 36.1
      14 February 2014 at 2:30 pm

      YEP, captain hook, if C. Slater had got that information, he WOULD NEVER have held back with it for so long, and he would have USED IT, to promote himself and his blog, by publishing it!!!

    • Murray Olsen 36.2
      14 February 2014 at 5:22 pm

      Not only in NZ. A Slater in Australia would be rich and invited to Abbott’s place via the front door. Look at Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones, or Larry Pickering. They’re all as bad as blubber boy. Then have a look at some of the rubbish on the internet in the US and A and remember who Bush would invite to BBQs at his ranch.

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