Ministerial review: law & order

91 comments on “Ministerial review: law & order ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Lanthanide 1

   5 January 2011 at 12:26 am

   “So, not only more crimes (1.4% per capita) but more unsolved too.”
   Um, sorry, but that’s completely sloppy.

   Number of crimes increased by some 15,000 but unsolved only increased by 3,000. In other words, of those 15,000 extra crimes 12,000 of them were solved.

   The unsolved rate went from 53.1% to 51.9%. Now suppose the number of crimes had stayed static but the unsolved rate was still 51.9%: unsolved crimes would then be down by 5,000.

   Obviously increasing crime is a problem (lets not even go down the ‘reported crime’ rabbit hole), but we should give credit where credit is due.

   captcha: comparison
   • Marty G 1.1

     5 January 2011 at 7:11 am

     nonetheless, despite the new cops there are more unsolved crimes now than when National came to power.

     Of course, it’s something of a Clayton’s victory having a crime resolved – it’s better if it never happens. But National did promise to cut the number of unsolved crimes.
     • Lanthanide 1.1.1

       5 January 2011 at 10:02 am

       I still don’t 100% agree, but if National had promised to cut unsolved crimes, then it should’ve explicitly mentioned that in the post, at least.
   • bbfloyd 1.2

     5 January 2011 at 8:46 am

     and to whom should we give credit to for making no impact whatsoever in the levels of crime.? to collins for doing no more than grandstanding without actually doing any more than attempting to criminalise more people than ever more? total failure… the only reason she hasn’t been shown up a the abject failure she is is that this govt is being protected from the public via an utterly complicit fourth column. they are instructed to ignore the reality as those out in reality land know it.
2. Carol 2

   5 January 2011 at 6:50 am

   Also, recorded crime is not the same as actual offences committed. Could some of the rise in recorded crime be due to more reporting of crimes, more recording of crimes reported, and/or the new offences created by the government?

   A break down of the kinds of reported crimes that have increased and decreased would be useful.
   • Marty G 2.1

     5 January 2011 at 7:09 am

     we can’t know actual offences committed, only those recorded. stats has the breakdown – I don’t like getting into the argument over which crimes ‘count’ and which don’t.
   • bbfloyd 2.2

     5 January 2011 at 8:53 am

     carol… that’s a bit late now. during the last media witchhunt conducted on behalf of the then national opposition, the police figures of increased domestic violence reporting being the reason for the increase in figures for violent crime were howled down as political posturing..

     to use the same approach now is passe. especially as crime reporting is more likely to be dropping, a more people lose faith and respect for the police.
     • Tigger 2.2.1

       5 January 2011 at 9:35 am

       Surely the focus here should be on the rising crime numbers and huge increase in prison population. As the post points out – clearly locking people up isn’t reducing crime. Ergo, why are we locking so many people up?
       • marsman 2.2.1.1

         5 January 2011 at 2:42 pm

         Prisons are a growth business,much like rest-homes,huge profits to be made by chums of NAct.
3. me 3

   5 January 2011 at 7:50 am

   How long do you think it’ll be before we all have gps and are tracked point to point and if we go over the limit there is a fine waiting in our email when we get home?
   How long before the po have immobilisers they point at cars and the car stops?
   How easy do you think they will be to get?
   • RedLogix 3.1

     5 January 2011 at 8:03 am

     You might like this link.

     Vernor Vinge (the computer/math geeks scifi author) often incorporated the idea of ‘ubiquitous law enforcement as one of the known terminal end-points of civilisations’ into his novels.

     . Ubiquitous Law Enforcement. “Now every embedded computing system, down to a child’s rattle, was a governance utility. It was the most extreme form of social control ever invented. “So now they have to run everything.” The notion was terribly seductive to the authoritarian mind . . . The only trouble was, no despot had the resource to plan every detail in his society’s behavior. Not even planet-wrecker bombs had as dire a reputation for eliminating civilizations.”
   • Bright Red 3.2

     5 January 2011 at 8:35 am

     I can hear the rightwing nutjobs already: ‘unless you’re a criminal, you’ve got nothing to fear from constant gps tracking and car immobilisers. Personally, I find it offensive that you don’t trust the police’
4. deadly_nz 4

   5 January 2011 at 8:50 am

   And have you ever tried to get the cops to come to your house if yoou have been burgled? they don’t bother now too busy collecting revenue catching speedsters doing 5k over the limit. Stop CRIME??? They would’nt know how any more.
   • bbfloyd 4.1

     5 January 2011 at 9:04 am

     fair go deadly… there are some seriously cash strapped businessmen out there that really need the money the police bring in…..
   • Draco T Bastard 4.2

     5 January 2011 at 5:58 pm

     Well, that would just prove that merging traffic into the police was a bad idea. In fact, I seem to recall at least one party suggesting splitting them again.

     PS, the police don’t “stop crime”, they catch criminals. How society treats people and ensures that they are an important part of that society is what stops crime.
5. mickysavage 5

   5 January 2011 at 9:07 am

   I agree with Lanthanide that more police officers tend to increase the prospects of files being “solved”. They may also paradoxically increase the crime rate by increasing the “detectability” of crimes.

   But the difference between Collins’ rhetoric and performance is stark. She has no greater chance of “solving” crime than she has of stopping the sun rising in the morning.

   She does not even realise or purport to realise the actual causes of crime, poverty, inequality, unemployment, despair. These factors have been causing crime for centuries and you think that her and her ilk would have realised this by now.
   • kinto 5.1

     5 January 2011 at 10:22 am

     I think Collins and National’s unspoken goal, (and perhaps mutual understanding with its supporters) has been to put more poor, young, and/or brown people in jail.
   • Draco T Bastard 5.2

     5 January 2011 at 6:03 pm

     She does not even realise or purport to realise the actual causes of crime, poverty, inequality, unemployment, despair. These factors have been causing crime for centuries and you think that her and her ilk would have realised this by now.

     They also make people dependent upon the rich for life and so makes people more amenable to being told what to do. The rich don’t want people to be independent as that would remove their (the capitalists) ability to steal from them.
   • Herodotus 5.3

     6 January 2011 at 11:45 am

     She has no greater chance of “solving” crime than she has of stopping the sun rising in the morning.
     Sorry Micky, but Collins or any MP CAN stop the sun from rising in the morning- Adjust day light savings radically, instead of puting the clocks forward by 1hr put them back 6. Then the sun rises at 12:00 and sets at0200 hr.
     Just a bit of alt thinking is required ;-0
     Hope you are having a relaxing time MS, keep smiling 😉
     We will never solve the reasons for crime, it is for me the types of crime that are being increasingly committed-especially against children by adults, and the severity of crimes being committed by children/youth.
6. bbfloyd 6

   5 January 2011 at 9:17 am

   mickey…. they know the reasons for crime well. they stand to make huge profits for their backers out of it.(running private prisons).
   • Bright Red 6.1

     5 January 2011 at 9:37 am

     and this is the great problem with private prisons – you create an industry that depends on imprisoning evermore people to increase its profits, and it will lobby the govt like an other industry with the added advantage that it holds a vital piece of infrastructure that the govt can’t let fail (just like Toll)
7. Lindsey 7

   5 January 2011 at 9:38 am

   The Nats didn’t just hawk their “Tough on crime” rhetoric to the middle classes. It was a big part of the message to ethnic communities such as the Chinese and Indian communities who were upset bacause of robberies of small businesses and liquor stores and several deaths resulting from such crimes. There was very much a “vote for us and we will protect you” message. They could not deliver on this of course, but it did not stop them promising it.
8. Adele 8

   5 January 2011 at 11:36 am

   Teenaa koutou katoa

   Justice in this country has a distinctly pinkish tinge to its countenance – I normally would say ‘white’ but its the holiday season, and the sun just loves messing with pasty skin.

   Disproportionately, Maaori are more likely to be found guilty and jailed. Disproportionately, Maaori are more likely to be unemployed. Disproportionately, Maaori are more likely to be impoverished, and disproportionately, Maaori are more likely to suffer from the impacts of crime.

   Pink privilege reigns supreme in this otherwise Polynesian paradise. The Judges, the Lawyers, the Police overwhelmingly pink-hued and mono-cultural. The Lawmakers overwhelmingly monocultural and pink-eyed. The colonialist has structured its society to suit its interests and lifestyle and in doing so has relegated its treaty partner to the loser category – because of a failure to take on pinkness as a lifestyle choice and as a way of being.

   Address the injustice at the heart of the justice system and then maybe some downward movement in the crimes statistics will be seen. Justice is not blind – it is cock-eyed with a pink-coloured glass monocle.
   • pollywog 8.1

     5 January 2011 at 1:35 pm

     Disproportionately, Maaori are more likely to be found guilty and jailed. Disproportionately, Maaori are more likely to be unemployed. Disproportionately, Maaori are more likely to be impoverished, and disproportionately, Maaori are more likely to suffer from the impacts of crime.

     Address the injustice at the heart of the justice system and then maybe some downward movement in the crimes statistics will be seen.

     So what exactly is the Maaori Party or independent Maaori iwi doing to own these stats, solve some of the problems with their treaty settlements or address the injustice ?
     • Adele 8.1.1

       5 January 2011 at 2:45 pm

       Teenaa koe, Pollywog

       Why do you assume that Te Pati Maaori or Iwi Maaori should own any adverse indicators of Maaori dis-ease. And why do you further assume that Treaty settlements should be used to finance what is essentially a government obligation to the citizens of this country including Maaori.

       That Maaori are generally at the bottom of the heap socio-economically in this country speaks to the ongoing effects of colonisation and in particular to the wholesale and destructive land grab that removed the economic base and social fabric of Te Ao Taangata Whenua..

       Treaty settlements were negotiated on the basis of compensating Iwi Maaori for the wrongs perpetrated by the Colonialist. The settlements were a long time coming and were hard fought for by successive generations of whaanau and they do not adequately compensate for the actual losses suffered.

       Treaty settlements are intended to restore an economic base to Maaori and are being used as such. The Maaori Economy is estimated to produce 5% towards the country’s productive GDP, which equates to about $10 billion per annum.

       Te Pati Maaori is an attempt to restore the voice of Maaori to a largely ‘pink’ domain. To articulate Treaty recognition, adherence, and promotion at the highest level. To articulate the strength of being Maaori, despite the denigration and devaluing of things Maaori by the so called civilised. Whaanau Ora was an attempt to address the ‘problems’ impacting on whaanau and has largely been lambasted by both the left and the right.

       Tino rangatiratanga is the cure to mate Maaori – money is simply the means to an end.
       • pollywog 8.1.1.1

         5 January 2011 at 3:53 pm

         Why do you assume that Te Pati Maaori or Iwi Maaori should own any adverse indicators of Maaori dis-ease

         cos Maaori are the ones suffering the dis-ease.

         If you know what the symptoms are and it was caused by the ongoing effects of colonisation. Then why look to the very same colonisers to cure you of your ills espcially if you don’t have to ?

         Treaty settlements are intended to restore an economic base to Maaori and are being used as such. The underlying cause of Maaori dis-ease is poverty and lack of education.

         I reckon iwi would be better served looking after their own in that respect than trying to increase the bottom line to their shareholders and payout exorbitant corporate salaries and bonuses to the brownsuits at the top.

         and if they are developing iwi based/funded social policies that deal with the stats then let’s hear em. Counter the spin about depressing child abuse, over repping in jail, high unemployment, low education and fatcat elites controlling iwi assets.

         don’t pass the buck, own that shit !!!

         and BTW the government is under no obligation to the citizens of this country to finance jack. It’s the Crown’s undertaking to provide for Maori as British citizens which is guaranteed under the treaty.

         with the Maaori Party being a one trick party set up to repeal the seabed and foreshore act. It’s only mandate from the electorate is to do that. I have some faith in Whanau Ora but if it doesn’t get a buy in to be part funded by iwi then it’s not gonna do much of sweet F.A

         …it seems more like money is the end to the means
         • Descendant Of Smith 8.1.1.1.1

           5 January 2011 at 4:10 pm

           Yeah but amongst all the rhetoric it would be more than useful if now and then Maori political leadership publically stood up and said selling drugs is wrong, joining gangs is wrong, stealing cars is wrong, committing burglaries is wrong and so on.

           The few Maori leaders that do speak out publicly tend to get cut down by other Maori quite quickly.

           At times it seems that there is this need for the gangs etc to act as the visible stormtroopers – the political face of disadvantage and colonisation – without them and their ilk it’s much harder to justify the need for additional resource.

           Of course if you want us Pakeha to keep telling you this then remain silent but what the hell

           I’m curious therefore – at what point do you take some ownership?
           • pollywog 8.1.1.1.1.1

             5 January 2011 at 4:25 pm

             exactly…DoS

             i’d love to see a statistical breakdown of iwi representation in all areas good and bad by Maori, then put that to individual Rangatira and get them to address it as part of their continued pledge of sovereignty over their people.

             maybe the answer is to foster robust intertribal competition in education, employment, social policy and welfare of hapu and whanau rather than sports and kapa haka ?

             …’cos the whole Maori unity thing is a myth and so is treating Maori as a separate race. It always was and is about iwi, hapu and whanau. Everything else including the Maaori party is just a convenient distraction by the powers that be.
             • Rex Widerstrom …

               5 January 2011 at 5:53 pm

               Might I be so bold (as a pakeha, albeit with Maori children and thus Maori whanau) to suggest that if iwi members were to demand representative democracy rather than this feudal “Rangatira” system – as outmoded, surely, as any monarchical structure? – then people like yourself might get to decide things.

               I know if I were an iwi member who I’d be voting for if it came down to pollywog versus a “brown suit”… especially if that brown suit were hiding a pair of $89 underpants 😉
         • Adele 8.1.1.1.2

           5 January 2011 at 9:23 pm

           Teenaa koe, Pollywog
           Are you the speech writer for Paula Bennett et al, or at least, a major contributor to her blog ‘Bootstrapper’s Blabberfest?’

           Absolutely Maaori would like to own their ‘shit.’ We prefer to call it Tino Rangatiratanga. Give us absolute authority over an education system that is currently failing our children because they aren’t thinking or acting pink enough. Our Tamariki and our Rangatahi will thrive under an educational system that values their ‘maaoriness’ as well as their brains.

           Give us control over Management studies so that our Maaori graduates don’t become complete arseholes in leadership. We shall train our leaders and managers to not think profit as a motive but instead to practise a bottom line that gives equal weight to sustainability of the biosphere, and of the relationships held between peoples, places and things.

           Harvard University recently completed a longitudinal study (25 years) on the indigenous peoples of North America. One of its professors recently disseminated the outcome of their research in this country. Generally it was found that the most successful of these indigenous peoples were those that had achieved self determination.

           When asked by an audience member as to what interventions did they practise to prevent youth suicide, the professor responded that the society that had achieved self determination had no issue with youth suicide.
           • pollywog 8.1.1.1.2.1

             5 January 2011 at 10:38 pm

             …but Adele

             You have Kohanga Reo, Kura Kaupapa and Wharekura and you pretty much have absolute authority over them to the point where even national standards can’t be applied to them and still Maaori kids are failing in record numbers…why is that ?

             You express Maaoriness as though it is a single unifying factor but the treaty and the governance of respective iwi gurantees them individual sovereign nation status.

             You have always had control over the determination of your people as individual iwi, you never lost that. Yet you allowed the very people entrusted to protect it, your very own rangatira to sell it out to the highest bidder for political gain under the guise of a single Maaori banner while pocketing the change

             Funny thing is though, you’re still looking for validation from that same corrupt system to provide Tino Rangatiratanga to rangatira who in most cases are just not worthy or too easily manipulated by snakecharming brownsuited viziers whose only loyalty is to their bank balance.

             I’d love to see the day when Maori can give equal weight to the things you mentioned, but let’s not kid ourselves that it was ever like that in the past and that to forge that future you want, you, as one people are going to have to do things you’ve never done before and see yourselves collectively as you have never done

             You want control ?… You don’t ask for it or wish for it, you just take it !!!
             • Adele …

               6 January 2011 at 10:42 am

               Teenaa koe, Polly

               What utter rubbish. Maaori do not have full authority over Kohanga or Kura.

               Firstly, the puutea that drives the Kohanga and Kura movement is not controlled by Maaori, secondly the Iwi partnerships with Ministry of Education is weighted towards compliance with Ministry objectives and outcomes, thirdly, the contractual relationship between the Ministry and the Kohanga National Trust have, and I quote “often been undermined, despite the good intentions of senior officials, over the past ten years largely due to two reasons:

               1) Compliances: The rigid interpretation of compliances and regulations at the local level and their impact on Kohanga reo along with compliance costs for the Trust at a national level.

               2) Lack of recognition and support for the Trust’s broader Maori development aims.”

               While we are separate peoples, defined by hapuu and Iwi, the one thread that binds us together is the status we share as taangata whenua (inclusive of taangata moana, and taangata whetu) the so called maaoriness I referred to earlier.

               That some of our Rangatira have fallen prey to the worst aspects of human behaviour speaks to their humanness moreso than their maaoriness. They eventually will be held to account.

               Despite what you think we are not stupid people, mai raanoo we existed successfully and by all accounts we flourished. We continue to exist despite overwhelming numbers intruding on our space. There is a whakatauki which essentially states that if you want direction for the future, look to the past. Our past says focus on whaanau and the rest will follow.

               Finally, to simply take is not such a good look especially from a Te Ao Taangata Whenua perspective. It invites harmful consequences, and frankly lacks integrity. Tuupuna chose peaceful protest and the Courts for a reason and that ethic continues today
               • pollywog …

                 6 January 2011 at 11:50 am

                 Oh i dont think Maori are stupid at all Adele. I think you’re collectively welfare dependent and intergenerationally suffering post colonial stress disorder which has created an unheathy victim mentality from institutional racism and that you’re also in denial about your roots and culture.

                 By the way, having put 3 of my kids through kohanga and kura, then to mainstream them for their high school years has advantaged them greatly.

                 What i found hindered Kura development, was iwi within rohe not funding kura enough as there weren’t enough students from that particular iwi…ie Maori only helping out their own iwi to the detriment of other Maori in the area, which is what the treaty promoted, guaranteed and ultimately hindered Maori from uniting.

                 Until that is redressed and you all pool resources it seems you’re destined to continue fighting the same intertribal conflicts you have been since day one…in my humble opinion.

                 The other thing was, the mystical/spiritual values espoused weren’t grounded in the base culture from whence they came, so there was always a measure of disconecctedness to the land and old people as they rarely acknowleged the sea culture which binds us all as one people.

                 For what it’s worth i dont think rangatira will be held to account. They’ll be forgiven and the sovereignty you strive for will be further entrenched in the new rules corruptible elites invent to ensure they remain in power.
                 • Descendant Of Smith …

                   6 January 2011 at 8:56 pm

                   Adelle: It’s clear Maori have grievances and land was confiscated and so on. These things should be resolved and the Waitangi Tribunal goes some way to doing this. It is worth noting that the very European system that you so seem to despise – e.g. the very well documented court and political records – are a strong means to resolving many of these issues as good quality documentation exists because of those very systems.

                   What is clear that cultures are not static. The challenge for Maori, as for other cultures is what to hold on to and what to let go. Language is clearly something that should be held on to and there is much else that can live and thrive in a modern world – and indeed continues to influence NZ.

                   There are aspects though that could be let go. It’s difficult for instance to see the value in the continuing story of Kahugnugnu breaking wind to create discord with Rongomaiwahine and her husband, drowning her husband and prolifically breeding as a positive story with which to bring up men.

                   The number of men I’ve come across who have used this story as justification for there own bad behaviour or to pressure young Maori women is sufficient to consider this as a non-positive influence.

                   If there was an aspect of Kohanga that caused difficulty I would consider that initially it was the requirement to be certified – this took many kuia out of the teaching. Equally difficult was the expectation by some Kohanga that parents didn’t have to pay – this resulted in many trying to survive on a shoestring budget as without charging parents funding was not available. One Maori women I am aware of has been helping K0ohanga understand this with some now receiving 5 to 10 times as much funding as they were a few years ago.

                   This means that their staff can also be paid.

                   On the other hand I’ve also seen Kohanga cheques used for non-Kohanga activities and loans given to Kaumatua / Kuia for overseas trips putting the centres under financial pressure. The power bills, the maintenance the staff all still have to be paid.

                   Face it Maori are no different from any other human beings – there’s the greedy, there’s the compassionate, there’s those who would take advantage there’s those who are supportive and nurturing.

                   The story of Kahungungu illustrates quite clearly that there is no moral superiority of belief, or kindness or consideration in Maoridom. you can find good and bad examples in every and any culture.

                   As always it’s what we have in common that will allow us to co-exist peacefully while the differences will allow us to delight in each others diversity.
       • Ana 8.1.1.2

         5 January 2011 at 7:04 pm

         Whanau ora is a brown wash for the privatisation of social services . ” Feeling good at the bottom of the cliff is no substitute for tackling the hard stuff at the top where free-market economic policies create the carnage.” Maori sellouts are the brownwash for a neoliberal corporate agenda that will chew up & spit out the majority of Maori. This is not the Tinorangatiratana that thousands of our people have marched the whenua for.

         What have the Maori party done to address economic desperation & inequality in our Maori communities ? Nothing. They are happy to prop up a government whose economic polices are sending our people to the wall, with young Maori and Maori families bearing a disproportionate burden. The Maori Party are conservative party, more interested in making useless symbolic gains than proving what whanau need to thrive, things like jobs, housing. No the Maori party and their cronies ignore the real issues facing our people, but cant wait to jump into disgusting things like prison privatisation .

         We all know that our people already disproportionately fill the prisons; we all know that during hard economic times crime flourishes but don’t worry, stupid red neck laws and politicians & media milking law n order hysteria will keep these prisons full for sure. Gangs & criminals have been demonised so much in Aotearoa, and it’s easy to throw people into prison that society has walked away from.

         That corporate Iwi are putting their hand up to make a buck out of the expansion of prison industrial complex in Aotearoa, is kupapatanga gone crazy. Hello c- managing a contract ( with human rights abusers Serco) is NOT political & economic independence.

         Is this the price that grassroots Maori continue to pay as the forgotten rubbish of structural adjustment, to be dealt to & to be kept in line by our own? Pohara whanau haven’t recovered from the extremist economic ‘reforms of the eighties when ” an entire generation of New Zealand’s children and youth has suffered under the reforms launched by the Labour government of 1984-90. Today Maori and Pacific children in particular are “disproportionately affected” by growing inequality and levels of poverty.

         Its hard not to feel that they the Maori Party are pissing all over Tino Rangatiratanga for the opportunity to heard , control and profit from our people at the bottom of the heap.
         • Adele 8.1.1.2.1

           5 January 2011 at 10:11 pm

           Teenaa koe, Ana

           I tautoko much of what you say. I too am somewhat disappointed with The Maaori Party, as while their gaze has been sharply focussed on the foreshore and seabed, they have allowed National free reign on the whenua – to enact some hideous laws and policies to the detriment of Maaori whaanau.

           Hone Harawira appears to be the only Maaori politician that speaks the words felt by whaanau.
           • Ana 8.1.1.2.1.1

             5 January 2011 at 11:25 pm

             Kia ora Adele

             The Maori Party and their ILG cronies are a bunch of sell outs, kupapatanga for the new millennium . They sold out over the takutaimoana & their co-leaders are flunkies for all the worse excesses of the tories,

             Just a few of the laws they have supported at the detriment to majority of Maori : 90day right to sack, ETS ( shit all over Papatuanuku why don’t you) increase in GST etc etc. Add to that growing unemployment, increase in repressive policing, our incarceration rates going though the roof, the dismantling of the welfare state means the lives of our flax roots grown more and more intolerable. Crime will go through the roof how else will our people survive ? No worries for Pita and Tuku just more clients for their private prisons.

             Hone needs to be more outspoken about what the Maori party are doing in the name of Maori just to advance their own political and economic interests at the expense of everyone else , if not then Hone’s just another Maori politician sitting on a fat salary while his people go to the wall.
       • hateatea 8.1.1.3

         5 January 2011 at 10:30 pm

         First: It is really difficult to become empowered and empower others when the exisitng power structures become threatened by what may happen to their empires.
         Maatua Whāngai is an initiative that springs to mind. Delivered by Māori for Māori working in a kaupapa Māori way using DSW resources, it took Māori families out of departmental statistics and therefore threatened to undermine some peoples reasons for being. Māori social workers wanted to work with their own people, so did some non-Māori. This was the whanau, hapū and iwi acting within their own communities using lots of volunteer hours – where is it now?

         Kohanga reo, kura kaupapa, ngā wānanga have also been successful yet some of the Euro-centric bureaucracy has almost brought all the these initiatives to their knees. EG A kohanga reo had a kōwhai tree planted in memory of one of their kaumatua – ECE threatened to withhold funding because kōwhai are poisonous. Instead of it being used as a teaching tool as it would be under tikanga māori, tikanga pākeha was imposed.

         Second: I am reminded of a prominent sportsperson of the past whose Māori identity was never acknowledged once they became successful. Too much is made of peoples whakapapa when there are negative. Crime is only one facet of this. I get tired of negative health expectations of me because I choose to identify as Māori when if I answered that I was European there would be none. It is not whakapapa that produces negative statistics but negative expectations

         Ask any child psychologist what happens when a child is constantly given negative messages, both verbal and non-verbal. Then multiply that by hundreds of thousands of iwi Māori over the past 170 years and you will see that it takes more than Treaty settlements and the (relatively speaking) small sums paid out for multi billion dollar losses.

         That doesn’t mean that I don’t deplore Māori violence against other people. I hate it just as much as I did when the white middle class male to whom I was married was violent to me. The problems of violence, poverty, alcohol and drug abuse, despair, societal attitudes and the huge distance between rich and poor are everyones, not just Māori and so must the solutions be.

         Mauriora
   • hateatea 8.2

     5 January 2011 at 10:08 pm

     Tika ou whakaaro
9. pollywog 9

   5 January 2011 at 3:52 pm

   Why do you assume that Te Pati Maaori or Iwi Maaori should own any adverse indicators of Maaori dis-ease

   cos Maaori are the ones suffering the dis-ease.

   If you know what the symptoms are and it was caused by the ongoing effects of colonisation. Then why look to the very same colonisers to cure you of your ills espcially if you don’t have to ?

   Treaty settlements are intended to restore an economic base to Maaori and are being used as such. The underlying cause of Maaori dis-ease is poverty and lack of education.

   I reckon iwi would be better served looking after their own in that respect than trying to increase the bottom line to their shareholders and payout exorbitant corporate salaries and bonuses to the brownsuits at the top.

   and if they are developing iwi based/funded social policies that deal with the stats then let’s hear em. Counter the spin about depressing child abuse, over repping in jail, high unemployment, low education and fatcat elites controlling iwi assets.

   don’t pass the buck, own that shit !!!

   and BTW the government is under no obligation to the citizens of this country to finance jack. It’s the Crown’s undertaking to provide for Maori as British citizens which is guaranteed under the treaty.

   with the Maaori Party being a one trick party set up to repeal the seabed and foreshore act. It’s only mandate from the electorate is to do that. I have some faith in Whanau Ora but if it doesn’t get a buy in to be part funded by iwi then it’s not gonna do much of sweet F.A

   …it seems more like money is the end to the means
10. Rex Widerstrom 10

    5 January 2011 at 5:17 pm

    National has tried to better Labour’s shameful record by imprisoning even more New Zealanders, especially by sending more and more less serious offenders into these crime universities.

    Thank you for acknowledging that – it gives integrity to the rest of your critique. I gave up hope of Labour having the courage to use criminal justice as a differentiator when it appointed Lianne Dalziel as spokesperson; and was sadly proved prescient when all she could do to defend the Chief Justice – not just against attacks on her thesis but on her very right to comment – was a pathetically weak bit of dribble on Red Alert.

    In Australia it’s generally the Greens who have carved out this niche for themselves. In WA I work closely with Greens MLA Giz Watson and I know in other states Greens MPs are the ones who are out front on criminal justice stuff.

    I may be missing something, but it doesn’t seem to be something the NZ Greens are staking out as their territory, specially now Nandor has gone. I had high hopes for Pita Sharples but they were soon dashed.

    There’s a significant political market for sensible solutions to “law and order” – not too soft, so as not to scare the horses, but as a counterpoint to the SST’s / “Crusher’s” monopolisation of the issue. And since the media love to have their work done for them by listing “he said / she said” comments rather than doing any actual research, it’s a ready entry to many a news story.

    Does no one in politics believe NZers are amenable to common sense on this issue, or what?
11. henry olongo 11

    5 January 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Adele, your reductionist 70’s identity politics are yesterdays news- like aunty Tariana. The tired resistance narrative just doesn’t fit our social landscape. This is a multi-cultural country and very few of it’s inhabitants subscribe to your religious beliefs or articles of faith. Linger on the macrons as long as you like but the reality is- there are probably more native speakers of Thai in the NZ city that I live in, than there are native speakers of Maori in the whole world.
    Whanau Ora does it for you. Scary.
    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      5 January 2011 at 7:10 pm

      Adele, your reductionist 70′s identity politics are yesterdays news…

      /agreed

      We really do have to accept that we are one society and not lots of little societies being oppressed by the large society in the mix. That way lies ruin.
      • Adele 11.1.1

        5 January 2011 at 9:56 pm

        Teenaa koe, Draco

        The thinking that tries to reduce humanity into an amorphous gloop of humanity that looks and feels and thinks pink is the rapid rail to extinction as a species. Assimilation is old hat – yah need to move on.
        • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1

          5 January 2011 at 10:41 pm

          The thinking that tries to reduce humanity into an amorphous gloop of humanity that looks and feels and thinks pink is the rapid rail to extinction as a species.

          Ummmm, no. We have one society in NZ, Australia has another and America and the UK have still more. You’ll note, though, that being one society in one geographic area is not the same as a lack of bio-diversity within the gene pool. People will travel from society/country to another or more spreading their genes and, thus, increasing the gene pool reducing the risk of extinction.

          Of course, that’s not what you’re scared of. What you’re scared of is the slow dying of Maori culture. This is the nature of life: They’re born, live and then die. Cultures are the same but like living things when two join then what emerges is a combination of those two. The two originals are gone and something new is in place. It’s called change.

          You will never get the Maori culture of two centuries ago back and trying to hold onto it is a waste of energies.
          • Adele 11.1.1.1.1

            5 January 2011 at 11:56 pm

            Teenaa koe, Draco

            Ummm no, we have multiple societies in Aotearoa but only one relegates the others to oblivion. Extinction of the human species is more about the spreading of an ideology that is counterproductive to longevity – the rhetoric that spouts superiority over others is a great way to get warfare juices flowing.

            I am the product of two cultures but absolutely avow a Maaori way of being as not only relevant but absolutely necessary in a contemporary age. It is Pink New Zealand that is incapable of accepting change – you hate the thought of learning Te Reo, you are intolerant of Maaori cultural practises and beliefs, and shock horror, you still celebrate a white Xmas in NZ although Santa is stroking in the heat.
            • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1.1.1

              6 January 2011 at 2:12 am

              We have one society with multiple cultures. Over time those cultures will merge into one. There is no way that this can be stopped because change happens. What we want to do is try and get the best from all the cultures and drop what is damaging to society.

              I am the product of two cultures but absolutely avow a Maaori way of being as not only relevant but absolutely necessary in a contemporary age.

              you can avow whatever you like – won’t change what’s happening which is the merging of cultures.

              you hate the thought of learning Te Reo,

              Nope. I’ve actually given it some it some serious thought but it just isn’t relevant.

              you are intolerant of Maaori cultural practises and beliefs,

              Only the really stupid aspects but I’ll say the same about the English culture as well.

              and shock horror, you still celebrate a white Xmas in NZ although Santa is stroking in the heat.

              Actually, I ignore Xmas. Get together with family and have a cold beer though.
    • Adele 11.2

      5 January 2011 at 9:47 pm

      Teenaa koe, Henry Olongo

      Identity has never been part of a reductionist way of thinking, on the contrary, identity from a Te Ao Taangata Whenua perspective is encompassing and all embracing of maunga, awa, moana and whenua.

      The social landscape is multicultural in appearance only. This society tolerates other cultures, other ethnicities, when it suits. Most often the cultural norms and practises of others are confined to ceremonial occasions and entertainment purposes – where we may happily buy a T-Shirt to say “I’ve done Diwali.’

      The law that all cultures must abide by in this country is distinctly ‘pink-hued’ and the cultural practises and beliefs of others are usually rendered obiter dicta – inconsequential. Refer to the Jewish practise of shechita as tolerated by this country as an example. And try getting a flat when your name is Singh, Hohapata, or Chan.

      And how truly multicultural can this country be when it fails to even understand or practise a true sense of biculturalism.

      Whaanau Ora was supposed to be about using Maaori solutions to fix the problems impacting on Maaori whaanau. Instead, because of political weak-knees and public condemnation it has been eviscerated and this much reduced version will simply perpetuate the in-effectiveness of current models of intervention. And Maaori will be blamed.

      My opinions are those of the future – it is you that is stuck in the dim-lit past.
      • Rex Widerstrom 11.2.1

        5 January 2011 at 10:37 pm

        Tena koe Adele

        The law that all cultures must abide by in this country is distinctly ‘pink-hued’ and the cultural practises and beliefs of others are usually rendered obiter dicta – inconsequential.

        Yet when Aboriginal people had input into creating a unique process which honoured the Aboriginality of the offender, his mob and, often, the victim and were allowed free rein to implement it the results have been disappointing:

        Circle sentencing participants offended less in the 15 months following their circle. However, the same was also true of Aboriginal people sentenced in a traditional court setting (the control group). After a range of offender and offence characteristics were controlled for, no difference could be found between the circle sentencing group and the control group in time to reoffend.

        I raise this not to be argumentitive; a good friend of mine was instrumental in introducing this into WA and, as someone who works for prisoner’s rights, I’m honestly disappointed that it seems to be failing.

        You’ve clearly thought about these issues, so how would you set about creating a legal system which recognised and upheld cultural practises and beliefs of others while meeting the need of punishing and rehabilitating the offender, satisfying the needs of the victim and, ideally, incorporating Restorative Justice principles?
        • Adele 11.2.1.1

          6 January 2011 at 2:14 am

          Teenaa koe, Rex

          Please forgive my tardiness in responding to you. I will respond as soon as I am able. I thank you for your patience
          • Rex Widerstrom 11.2.1.1.1

            6 January 2011 at 4:32 pm

            Not at all, Adele, take your time.

            As background, during Naidoc week each year various groups with which I’m involved – Civil Liberties Australia, the Institute for Restorative Justice and Penal Reform, the WA Penal Reform Group – organise an event focusing on the over-representation of Aboriginal people in the criminal justice system.

            At first I had thought to invite Pita Sharples, as he had some promising things to say when outside of politics. Now, though…

            I’ve also discussed with Nandor Tanzcos the idea of his being a guest. But all this was based on the supposition that New Zealand would surely have some innovative solutions. Unless I’ve missed something – and I accept I may have done, given the difficulty of keeping up-to-date with everything over distance, even in the internet age – we don’t, and I find that hugely disappointing.

            Further, I have had Maori write to me – uninvited (though by no means unwelcome), so distressed enough to have done a bit of research to find me – aghast that these “Rangatira” you mention eagerly accepted trans-Tasman flights and “hospitality” from a private prison provider with an appalling human rights record and seem prepared to get into bed with any private prison operator provided they personally gain some benefit.

            So from thinking I could bring a NZer over here to hold our nation up as one that’s addressing – albeit nowhere close to solving – indigenous imprisonment rates, I’ve switched to being embarrassed.

            Any glimmer of hope you can bring would, therefore, be most welcome.
            • Treetop 11.2.1.1.1.1

              6 January 2011 at 4:50 pm

              It is my understanding that Tukoroirangi Morgan is interested in private prisons. Dr Cullen does a lot of consultancy for Morgan’s hapu/iwi due to his skills acquired as attorney general. Morgan said that an expert saves time and money.
            • Adele 11.2.1.1.1.2

              6 January 2011 at 6:48 pm

              Teenaa koe, Rex

              I am unable to comment greatly on the plight of Australia’s many indigenous peoples and on the failings of the programme you mention. However, on googling for further information, I saw only a huge gaping hole in place of commentary from Australia’s indigenous peoples. Is circle sentencing a complete facsimile of an indigenous model of delivering justice or merely an addendum to the ‘common’ law?

              In respect to a solution from a Te Ao Taangata Whenua perspective, I can only reiterate self-determination as the cure to the afflictions impacting on indigenous peoples now colonised. Most, if not all, indigenous peoples are bound by the obligations entrenched in the relationships held with people, places, and things. Restoring these relationships is to revitalise the ethical and spiritual base essential to a healthy expression of indigeneity.

              I recommend Moana Jackson and Annette Sykes, both lawyers, as useful and erudite informants on the Justice system in Aotearoa.
              • Rex Widerstrom …

                6 January 2011 at 8:26 pm

                Heh, Moana Jackson was my third form Te Reo teacher 😀

                Yes, Annette Sykes is well worth a read… I follow what I can find from her.

                Circle sentencing is, AFAIK, both a facsimile of the indigenous model and an addendum to the criminal justice system. Elders sit with a Magistrate in a circle with the offender, his or her family, the victim (if they wish to participate), the victim’s family etc. Sometimes indoors, sometimes out.

                The Magistrate’s main role, it seems to me, is to legitimise the process sufficiently to make it acceptable to “the system” – their role is not to adjudicate on the fairness of the decision arrived at etc.

                Alas I’m not an expert either… and it’s made difficult by the fact that customs vary widely amongst Aboriginal groups, who in turn were far more nomadic than were Maori so that rather than a geographic area being solely identified with one group it may have meaning – different meaning – to several clans.

                Thanks for replying.
      • pollywog 11.2.2

        6 January 2011 at 8:54 am

        Adele,

        I don’t think you’ve quite got a handle on what the respective cultures are when you mention ‘biculturalism’. Nor, with the same regards, do i think you’ve got a handle on who the treaty was signed by and for and what it guaranteed. Nor for whom it is you speak on behalf of.

        Maaori will be in far better off position once all treaty claims are settled and we can put that tired old piece of dogskin to rest, along with any misplaced eurocentric allegiance to the crown.

        And really, you shouldn’t be too quick to damn Whanau Ora for failing and laying blame when it hasn’t even got off the ground yet. I still think it can be quite an effective outreach tool for upskilling, educating and resourcing Pasifikan peoples inclusive of Maori, dependent of course on the skills of the navigators involved and in casting the net for the widest catchment possible.

        Seriously, don’t you think it’s about time you fullas stopped flailing in the wind and came home to roost under the shelter of the wider Pasifika culture ? You’re not tangata whenua, we are all Tangata o Te Moana Nui a Kiwa.
        • marty mars 11.2.2.1

          6 January 2011 at 9:49 am

          LOL with your assertion that YOU know more about what adele is saying than she does – that is arrogant and wrong. And now you say maori are not tangata whenua… more arrogance but i spose it keeps your persona going.
          • pollywog 11.2.2.1.1

            6 January 2011 at 10:19 am

            LOL with your assertion that my assertion is that i KNOW more about what Adele is saying than she does.

            My assertion is that i THINK Adele doesn’t know as much as she thinks she does and neither do you.

            So at which point did Maori become tangata whenua Marty ?…at the treaty signing in Waitangi or when the first arrivals from Pasifika migrated here and have continued to do so uninterrupted since ?

            Saying something over and over doesn’t make it any more true. It just makes bigger fools of those repeating the lie and dumbed down brain dead zombies of those who believe it, but i spose you’ve been lied to all your life so you couldn’t tell the truth if it were carved or drawn on stone anymore.

            It’s OK I dont blame you. I blame your leaders and the colonists 🙂
            • marty mars 11.2.2.1.1.1

              6 January 2011 at 10:23 am

              If your idea was true how would that change your status?
              • pollywog …

                6 January 2011 at 10:47 am

                Given that this is the internet and im using a pseudonym…

                … i imagine my status would be upgraded to warrior wizard first class and i’d be granted a brand new wand of infinite power with a cloak of stealthy inflammability under which to perfom all sorts of mystical Pasifikan magick

                🙂
                • marty mars …

                  6 January 2011 at 11:07 am

                  ha ha – yes it probably is in the ‘too hard basket’ – nevermind.
                  • pollywog …

                    6 January 2011 at 11:25 am

                    seriously Marty…

                    …answer my question first, re frame yours so i understand what status you’re referring to and in all honesty i’ll answer it as best to my ability.

                    fair enough ?
                    • marty mars …

                      6 January 2011 at 11:31 am

                      nah we’ll move on

                      have a great year and all the best to you and your whanau polly
                    • pollywog …

                      6 January 2011 at 3:15 pm

                      cheers Marty…you to ehoa
            • Adele 11.2.2.1.1.2

              7 January 2011 at 10:25 am

              Teenaa Polly

              Te Ao Taangata Whenua – the worldview of indigeneity in Aotearoa is an interwoven universe. The threads that bind are maawhaiwhai, like a spider’s web. There is orderliness and structure in the attachments, and a sense of a start point, and of progression.

              Whakapapa is the binding influence that attaches taangata whenua to the natural world, and to the intangible realm of Atua. From our perspective, we (the present) are attached to the natural world (Aotearoa) by the connections created by tuupuna, under the guidance of Atua.

              The voyages made by our founding tuupuna were simply not of the type ‘bro, let’s go for a paddle.’ They were orchestrated journeys to a place already known to them. When our founding tuupuna disembarked and established their presence on the whenua – they established the whakapapa of taangata whenua – for their descendants.

              I am able to claim that status of tangata whenua by whakapapa that connects me to Toroa, Tamatekapua, Ngaatoro-i-rangi, Tuuwharetoa, and to hapuuoneone, who claim no waka tradition, and are literally ‘people of the land.’

              That many of our people are bereft of whakapapa is, in my opinion, why some of our people act so ‘untethered.’

              I shall leave the final word with you as I need to spend time with the daughter – otherwise she might start sniffing glue.
              • pollywog …

                7 January 2011 at 4:37 pm

                Sweet Adele…

                …the final word on glue sniffing and personal responsibility 😉

                http://pollywannacracka.blogspot.com/2010/03/holding-bags.html
12. Marjorie Dawe 12

    5 January 2011 at 9:44 pm

    I have a friend in the police in the Hawkes Bay and he tells me its tough getting leave because they just dont have enough frontline police working down there. This isnt seasonal by the way. It seems that our government is targeting specific areas, like Manukau so that they can boast about less crime there. Never mind the rest of NZ though because they can hold Manukau up as a model for how well they are doing. It is all an illusion and the numbers tell a very different story. The media is buying into it as well and I feel sure there is not as much reporting of some pretty serious crime like the kids who are being killed etc.
13. Jenny 13

    5 January 2011 at 10:22 pm

    Thanks to aj for unearthing all the good stuff:

    Redistribution the Key to Economic Growth

    The trumpeted Tory crackdown on crime , will not cut crime because it refuses to deal with the cause.
    The one thing single glaring causative factor related to the growth in crime in society, is the parallel rise in inequality in society.

    (you could almost say that crime is a sort of instinctive primitive redistribution.)

    Of course being Tories the Nacts will never do anything to reduce this causative factor, in fact the opposite. As aj’s link shows, the growth in equality also leads to economic breakdown, which is also a breeding ground for crime.

    The tory approach to crime is to make society more repressive, this doesn’t decrease crime, as much as it makes criminals more desperate, (and therefore dangerous). The resulting increasingly vicious criminal outrages, lead to more calls for further repression and harsher sentences, more police, more prisons. Which leads to even more desperate crimes, which leads to calls for even more police and even harsher sentences and even more prisons.

    In the end it is hard to tell your democracy apart from a police state.
    • Jenny 13.1

      5 January 2011 at 10:36 pm

      So what sort of society does Crusher envisage for NZ.

      Will more of our rich folk be living in gated communities, their privilege protected by security guards and a vastly inflated repressive state apparatus. Their children growing up in exspensive private schools that strongly resemble the gated communities they come from?

      Alongside this glaring inequality, increased numbers of prisons, which no matter how many more we build, still manage to be overcrowded, with an inmate population way over represented from the minorities, who suffer the double whammy of being at the bottom of this gross pyramid, but also as handy scapegoats for our society’s failure to deal with crime.

      capcha – “explanations”
14. henry olongo 14

    5 January 2011 at 10:34 pm

    ‘The law that all cultures must abide by in this country is distinctly ‘pink-hued’’

    ‘…practise a true sense of biculturalism’

    Adele, these two comments indicate to me that you are out of touch. Bi-culturalism? A fantasy subscribed to by who? The first language spoken in the house next door to ours is Samoan, behind us it is Romanian, opposite us it is Gujarati & at in our home -Thai. The children in the neighbourhood speak to each other in a dialect of the world’s most important language- NZ English. If you have children or grandchildren, they or their children are inevitably going to live, marry & participate in a multi-cultural melting pot. It’s called New Zealand.
    • Vicky32 14.1

      6 January 2011 at 12:11 am

      Seconded Henry! In the house next door on one side, Samoan, in the house on the other side, Amharic.
      Down the road, Gujarati… and the child from that house plays with the African child – multi-culturalism, because bi-culturalism is not enough..
      Deb
    • Adele 14.2

      6 January 2011 at 12:55 am

      Teenaa koe, Henry

      Bi-culturalism was coined by Paakeha to refer to their sense of shared ownership and control of Aotearoa / New Zealand. It was in reference to the shared obligations inferred by Te Tiriti o Waitangi. The Treaty is not a fantasy – it is a real world document that is described as the founding document of this country. It remains a relevant and forceful document despite ongoing calls by the hegemonic to return it to ‘a simple nullity.’

      I lived for many years in South Auckland – the absolute hub of cultural diversity. Maaori, Samoan, Tongan, Punjabi, Tuvaluan, Fijian, etc etc etc. As Maaori we engaged with other cultures with gusto, we were particularly interested in sharing cultural traditions, and especially our foods.

      Sharing views of indigeneity held common themes. In our more serious moments, there was acknowledgement that the western tradition had a voracious appetite for ethnic cleansing and could easily strip bare and bury any culture that wallowed too much in its gaze. To maintain our identity as indigenous peoples was thus the burden we all shared.

      People with an indigenous understanding generally support the stance of Maaori.
      .
      • Draco T Bastard 14.2.1

        6 January 2011 at 1:55 am

        The Treaty is not a fantasy – it is a real world document that is described as the founding document of this country.

        That may be so but it’s almost totally irrelevant to the here and now. Things have changed since then and trying to hold on to that time isn’t doing any of us any good.
        • Adele 14.2.1.1

          6 January 2011 at 2:29 am

          Teenaa koe, Draco

          Okay, if that be the case Treaty settlements are obviously a thing of the past, oh wait, Ngaati Porou have just agreed to a $110 settlement of all historical Treaty of Waitangi claims with legislation to be passed in the new year.

          What is not doing this country any good is Paakeha NZ continuing to deny Maaori as taangata whenua and as a separate and unique identity with equal status.
          • marty mars 14.2.1.1.1

            6 January 2011 at 9:31 am

            Kia ora Adele – I tautoko your comments on this thread – kia kaha!

            This sentence sums it up for me – thank you for expressing it.

            “What is not doing this country any good is Paakeha NZ continuing to deny Maaori as taangata whenua and as a separate and unique identity with equal status.”

            Too many have vested interests, via their priviledge, in keeping maori at the bottom – they are weak and their arguments are even weaker. Truth and fairness and equality will prevail with tino rangatiratanga.
            • pollywog 14.2.1.1.1.1

              6 January 2011 at 10:22 am

              “What is not doing this country any good is Maaori NZ continuing to claim Maaori as taangata whenua and as a separate and unique identity with equal status.”

              FIFY 😛
              • marty mars …

                6 January 2011 at 10:44 am

                so you are in the same boat as those who argue maori are not tangata whenua and the indigenous people of this land – what lovely barbies you all must have.
                • pollywog …

                  6 January 2011 at 10:59 am

                  I’ll give you first nation status, but if your culture, language, customs, traditions and means by which you arrived at ths whenua came directly from Pasifika.

                  …then in my world that doesn’t qualify you as indigenous to NZ, but rather indigenous to the wider region and thereby making us all tangata o te Moana Nui A Kiwa.

                  you do know who Kiwa really was eh ?

                  and yeah our family barbies are rather lovely thanks very much. Prolly cos we don’t talk much religion and politics at them.
                  • marty mars …

                    6 January 2011 at 11:22 am

                    LOL – so you want to be indigenous here and the way to do that is to pull down maori by making them non-indigenous – IMO we fight that shit from the right and the left and the middle and inside and outside but we always fight it. Can’t wait for you to tell the other pasifica nations that they don’t exist and aren’t indigenous.
                    • pollywog …

                      6 January 2011 at 12:06 pm

                      See thats the problem. You’re fighting against yourselves all over the show, mostly just shadow boxing though.

                      You can’t see me or accept that i am indigenous here, whether i want to be or not. I just am.

                      and fuck telling Pasifika nations anything. I’m gonna tell the kids here in NZ starting with my own and they’re gonna spread the word. If it means i have to destroy something nice to create something truly beautiful then i will cos to describe myself in 10 words or less i’d say.

                      ‘I’m the most creative and destructive person i know’

                      🙂
                    • marty mars …

                      6 January 2011 at 12:51 pm

                      beautiful to you and that is all that matters isn’t it polly – sorry mate you are just in the same old sad line full of those that covet.
                    • pollywog …

                      6 January 2011 at 1:46 pm

                      nah bro…beautiful to me is beautiful full stop. See i’ve got a keen eye for beauty and simplicity.

                      haha..and what is it exactly you think i covet ?

                      keep fighting them inner demons Marty. one day they might let you win 😉
      • Rosy 14.2.2

        6 January 2011 at 3:11 am

        Adele, your post above is sounding very much like cultural stereotyping, at best. Is indigeneity associated only with brown people? Is there a ‘western tradition’? And does not ‘ethnic cleansing’ and stripping of traditions occur in other societies? Furthermore none of the ethnic groups is indigenous in New Zealand, nor are they minorities in their own lands (except for the possible exception of the Fijians and they are not a minority to western settlers – albiet their situation was due to the indenture of Indian workers by the British). Just as the Pakeha sense of social justice needs to recognise similarities and differences in the Maori experience, and to understant the treaty; it would not do Maori any harm to recognise that even Europeans are not a great amorphous mass of western capitalism (although I acknowledge mixing with immigrant European groups is a tad difficult in South Auckland due to the appalling segregation in our suburbs).
        • Adele 14.2.2.1

          6 January 2011 at 2:22 pm

          Teenaa koe, Rosy

          I am not sure what cultural stereotyping is except to say that generally it is Paakeha NZ that tends to lump everyone into square boxes labelled Pacific Islander, Asian, Indian and Chinese. Maaori is a generalised term to describe what is in fact nations of people – correctly defined as hapuu, and or Iwi.

          Indigeneity applies to any culture or society that can claim first nations (first peoples) status to lands. There are a few white cultures that are indigenous, and they also suffer the risk of becoming extinct as a unique identity. There are the Sami peoples that inhabit parts of Sweden and Norway, the Adyghe from the Caucasus (from which we get Caucasian), and the Komi peoples of the Urals.

          The divide is not based on colour but in ideology – the western tradition on the one hand, and indigeneity on the other.
          • Rosy 14.2.2.1.1

            6 January 2011 at 9:29 pm

            “The divide is not based on colour but in ideology – the western tradition on the one hand, and indigeneity on the other”
            The ‘western tradition’ what is that? I suspect you mean ‘western capitalism’.

            And generally Pakeha? No, Pakeha probably have more opportunity to be heard stereotyping, but I’m pretty sure I’ve heard non-pakeha people, in many walks of life making the exact same stereotypes – about Pakeha and about ethnicities other than their own.

            The ‘western tradition’ seems to assume German, English, Scots, Irish, Dutch etc etc all have the same cultural mindset and that this is different from an inclusive ‘indigenous’ mindset. I dislike this as much as I dislike anti-poverty campaigners talking about a north/south divide. It’s reductionist. I’ve always had a problem with reductionist theories.
            • pollywog 14.2.2.1.1.1

              6 January 2011 at 10:26 pm

              choice…now we’re getting to the heart of problem with what has been promoted as biculturalism in NZ.

              The misconception that it’s about NZ culture and Maori culture when in actuality it’s about transplanted Eurocentric culture vs indigenous Pasifikan.
15. Jenny 15

    5 January 2011 at 10:47 pm

    Definition of the word “Prison”

    A place where all the big criminals put all the little criminals.
    • hateatea 15.1

      5 January 2011 at 11:34 pm

      I love that definition

      It sort of reminds me of something that was said during a particular gang (white) versus gang (brown) conflict when the biggest gang in town was said to be ‘blue’ – ie Police. It was a long time ago now but the discriminatory way the applied the law lead to the comment. Sometimes I don’t think we have moved on all that much
16. watching 16

    6 January 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Trust and confidence in police still low. Dissatisfaction with services provided at 20%. Two out three victims won’t contact police as they don’t trust them or have any confidence in the services they provide. Resolution rates for sexual assault against women and girls getting worse. Police staff still report they don’t think either internal racial or sexual harassment is properly dealt with. Over 300 woman still wait for the Crown to apologise for the harassment they endured by the police, including in the Bay of Plenty. Reports from The Dominion Post this year suggest this behaviour continues. Big backward steps for the rights of women and girls over the past two years. And in return the police get search and surveillance powers. Something is not quite right.
    • Blondie 16.1

      8 January 2011 at 12:42 am

      So true Watching. Sadly, many of us have no faith whatsoever in the police….. Those who are paid from our tax dollars, purportedly to protect us and our families, yet in truth will only assist you if you are wealthy and white.

      I don’t know if it’s because they’re understaffed and underresourced, or if it’s because they just don’t care. But they certainly don’t help when you need them to.

Links to post

1. The Standard: posted on 4 January 2011 at 10:31 am
2. MarKng: posted on 6 January 2011 at 2:05 am

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS