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Much a coup about nothing

Written By: - Date published: 7:23 am, July 10th, 2013 - 238 comments
Categories: labour, making shit up, Media - Tags: , ,

Apparently there was a coup in Labour last night. Missed it? So did Labour. The coup seems to have taken place largely in the mind of Duncan Garner, with the assistance of well-known Labour insider Cameron Slater. Let Twitter tell the tale:

Duncan Garner 9:05pm: Good source. Coup on in Labour. Letter of no confidence being circulated. It’s over for Shearer. Watch for his resignation.

iPredict NZ 9:20: @Whaleoil on Radio Live now, claiming that Andrew Little is the chief plotter. But Cunliffe the one up on iPredict

Duncan Garner 9:44pm: @DavidLloydNZ Nope not doing guesses on that. Just saying what’s happening now. Little, Robertson, Cunliffe all in mix.

Chris Hipkins 9:56pm: @Garner_Live Your source is full of crap. No letter. No leadership challenge. Stop making things up.

Julie Fairey 9:59pm: @chrishipkins @Garner_Live Garner has just said on Radio Live that @patrickgowernz has the letter and will show it on Nightline TV3.

Chris Hipkins 10:21pm: @Garner_Live No letter, no Nightline story, no substance. Manufacturing news plain and simple.

Grant Robertson 10:34pm: @Garner_Live Duncan, I have now confirmed with the whole Caucus. There is no letter. This is just made up. Apology?

dave 10:37pm: Gosh this is embarassing for TV3. I think Garner stuffed up tonight.

Mel Ansell-Bridges 10:56pm: Well that de-escalated quickly.

Princes St Labour 11:06pm: “@ipredictnz: Shearer to depart in 2013 back to where it was earlier today https://www.ipredict.co.nz/app.php?do=contract_detail&contract=SHR.DEPART.2013 …”so someone made a quick buck @Garner_Live

The involvement of ipredict in fuelling the rumor is interesting. Matthew Hooton does their PR. Someone could have made a few hundred bucks for an hour’s work supplying Garner with a rumor, boosting the appropriate stocks, and then dumping them before the story collapsed…. as long as Garner and ipredict gave the story cred.

And at 11:14pm Small and Watkins tuck the story up in bed for the night:

The latest speculation followed a series of Labour crisis meetings over a so-called “man ban” in proposed changes to party selection rules which were withdrawn yesterday following a backlash from Labour’s MPs.

They centred on a no confidence letter supposedly circulated by Labour MPs Clayton Cosgrove, Andrew Little and Shane Jones but all three rubbished it.

Cosgrove said the rumours had been started by National and told Fairfax the speculation was “absolute crap”. He was 100 per cent behind Shearer’s leadership. Little and Jones also flatly denied the letter. Jones said he had seen no letter and no one had approached him to sign any letter.

Little is understood to have approached Shearer earlier to give him an assurance he had not been destabilising his leadership. Insiders saying there was no discussion about a no confidence motion during yesterday’s caucus. …

David Cunliffe said the coup rumours were “ridiculous”.

It looks like someone has played Garner / Gower here. They would do well to ask themselves why.

[update: Hoots says he’s no longer involved in ipredict]

238 comments on “Much a coup about nothing ”

  1. Matthew Hooton 1

    FYI: I have had no involvement with iPredict since last year. It is now run by some Victoria University students, I think.

    • CnrJoe 1.1

      by ‘no involvement’ – what? you don’t even gamble there?

    • georgecom 1.2

      Mathew, can I ask for some clarification on your statement.

      Is “I have had no involvement with iPredict since last year” the same as John Keys ‘I didn’t know who Kim Dotcom was’, the same as John Banks ‘I didn’t know who made the donation’, Don Brash ‘I don’t know who is distributing the pamphlets’, or, a statement that you actually had nothing whatsoever to do with the outfit?


  2. Matthew Hooton 2

    I have an account yes

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 2.1

      Funny sort of denial, that. I think you should be more careful with statements red herrings like “I have had no involvement…”, because they simply give rise to the suspicion that you’re lying. Again.

      After all, it’s not like you have a reputation for honesty, is it?

      • insider 2.1.1

        Utter bollox . He was said to be doing their pr (with the underlying smear he might have had an involvement in last nights events). There was no other reason to mention him. he said he wasn’t anymore. Asked and answered. Anything else you want to warn him that he needs to deny, just in case?

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead

          The accusation is that someone manipulated the stock for profit.

          • insider

            And you swallowed it like a garner on a twitter.

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead

              No, I pointed out that a man with a reputation for lying authored a non-denial.

              • Matthew Hooton

                I think you confuse “telling a lie” with “saying things I disagree with”. They are different.

                • McFlock

                  but they often overlap when it’s called “PR”

                • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                  I think you confuse your erstwhile support for David Shearer with something sincere, and perhaps imagine that The Hollow Men was just a bad dream, and that your mendacity hasn’t been exposed in your own words.

                  Have a nice day.

                  • lurgee

                    Not many people can go into an argument with Hooton and end up looking worse … Well done, O.A.K. You really sank to the occasion there,

    • Tim 2.2

      Mathew – you’re so full of it even the Pakeha Party have called a crisis meeting to decide whether to call you Matieu Fuller-Feces.

  3. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 3

    It looks like someone has played Garner here. He would do well to ask himself why.


    Garner went out of his way to say how good his source was, so my bet is that it is someone in caucus who played Garner to further destabilise poor Shearer.

    But just a further example, if one was needed, of what a circus the parliamentary Labour Party is.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 3.1

      Then there’ll be no problem producing a copy of the letter, will there?

    • Te Reo Putake 3.2

      The source was the equally hopeless Patrick Gower. Both men caught interviewing their keyboards again.

      • David H 3.2.1

        Well here’s hoping that Gower gets the Boot for this debacle. Well if he was the source of the letter rumour, then he should be gone for making shit up yet again.

      • saarbo 3.2.2

        There needs to be consequences for Duncan Garner, clearly he does not have a source in Caucus. I presume this is the same source that he had in November. Garner is a joke. And yes, Gower is equally hopeless, both are an embarrassment to TV3.

      • Jackal 3.2.3

        +1 Another case of these idiots reporting on what they want to happen, instead of reality.

    • r0b 3.3

      Made a minor update to the text after you quoted it – played Garner / Gower.

      • Pascal's bookie 3.3.1

        Now Gower’s distancing himself from the whole thing:


        “Just catching up on last night’s tweets. Obviously wasn’t on Nightline & don’t have letter!”

        There was nothing from him at all last night. lolGarner

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

          Gower is a numpty. But Garner knows what he’s doing. I doubt he would have gone so hard without a credible source. That’s likely to be someone in the caucus. So r0b’s question is the right one: why?

          And the answer is not good for Shearer.

          • Pascal's bookie

            Garner now telling Gower to go and talk to the 60 day source.

            Last night he was saying Gower had the letter, when Gower was all tucked up in bed.

            Garner’s an idiot, who’s nickname in the gallery, for a long time, is not printable in blog that frowns on gendered insults.

  4. Winston Smith 4

    Doesn’t matter that there was or wasn’t, its another small cut…

  5. ak 5

    Staggering levels of blatantly baseless distraction, even for these arrogant buffoons. Which means the Natsy Secret Police issue must be really hurting the internal polling.

    Which in turn means that Joanna Public must at last be realising that a blatant liar – proved to have already tracked journos -would not have hesitated to spy on private kiwis for political purposes, and has probably done so for years.

    Or perhaps the Dunney Brush has had a glimpse of purgatory and finally decided to tell the truth……

    • rosy 5.1

      I see this as the 2nd coup story Gower has manufactured out of thin air. A pity the first wasn’t checked out as well as this one and was allowed to run.

      It would be interesting to see if Cosgrove was right and National were destabilising (for the second time?) They have form given their attack on Peters in 2008, the demolition of Brash and the way they dealt with Gilmore this year.

      Maybe if Labour had any smarts they could use Cosgrove’s musing and make the story about National. They’d probably mess it up though, and the GCSB Bill will be done and dusted in the meantime.

      • insider 5.1.1

        Yes Helen and mike and trevor would never have seeded the media with baseless rumours. It’s core national.

        • rosy

          Well only one of those three names is still relevant and his man is leading labour. The other likelys are all ABCers as well so I doubt it was a Labour seeding.

    • Matthew Hooton 5.2

      I think you are wrong in at least three ways.
      1) The coup talk didn’t come from National so there was no “distraction”.
      2) National is up in private and public polling because GCBS issue is not on the public’s radar, and so …
      3) The public haven’t “realised” anything out of the spy issue

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.2.1

        Is that like when you said National and Labour would take a hit on marriage equality and then nothing happened?

      • felix 5.2.2

        Didn’t come from National? lolz.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

          You really think Garner is stupid, don’t you? Why would he have gone so hard if Stephen Joyce had told him?

        • Matthew Hooton

          So you think that Duncan Garner spoke to no one in Labour, and instead took his lead from National Party people, and ran a Labour coup story? That is a big accusation. Garner has been a friend of mine for nearly 20 years, he is a larrikin, but the idea he just made all this up (including that he was put up to it by National-linked people) is, well, a bit mental actually.

          • felix

            Wow, you and Gormy are a bit touchy and illogical today.

            “So you think that Duncan Garner spoke to no one in Labour”

            If I’d meant that, I would’ve said it. Alien concept to you I’m sure.

            “the idea he just made all this up (including that he was put up to it by National-linked people)”

            You need to work on your set theory, idiot.

            • Matthew Hooton

              Cool, so you think he did speak to at least one Labour MP who told him about a coup letter. In which case he had a story.

              • saarbo

                I’d like to know why it would be in the best interests of a member of the Labour Caucus to release something to Garner. It simply doesn’t make sense. If a faction is organising a coup, I’d imagine that stealth is an important pre requisite. The last thing they would be doing is publicising to the world that they are carrying out a coup.

                Garner has a screwy source and is being played or he is making it up. TV3 need to take action because Garner is quickly losing his credibility. He’s a clown.

                • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

                  Stealth is not a prerequisite. It ensures that, for yet another day, everyone is talking about a leadership change. And Shearer’s already difficult position has become slightly more difficult.

                  That’s why the person did it.

                  • saarbo

                    Maybe, but people in the caucus will know who it is (if a source in caucus does actually exist)…many wont appreciate the damage its doing to the party as a whole.

                • Matthew Hooton

                  saarbo: your question about “best interests” is a good one. But maybe the leaker doesn’t intend to be a member of the Labour caucus for much longer but thought that she (or he) had an interest in greasing up to a national talkback host? Just a thought.

                  • saarbo

                    aahhhh…that is plausible too.

                  • Jackal

                    Or Garner simply made it up, which seems far more plausible. After all, he has form and hasn’t been able to produce the “letter” that his claims relied on. In any case, a real journalist checks his sources for credibility, a hack doesn’t. Therefore Garner is either a hack or a liar…take your pick.

                    • He wouldnt be that stupid to outright lie, if he doesnt produce anything or there
                      is no coup, then he is a hack.

                    • felix

                      Well done Brett, you’ve nailed it.

                      He didn’t produce anything,

                      there was no coup,

                      and he is a hack.

              • felix

                Matthew: “Cool, so you think he did speak to at least one Labour MP who told him about a coup letter. “

                No, I didn’t say that either. I don’t believe I opined on that matter at all.

                If you’re going to put words in my mouth I wish you’d pick ones that don’t taste like bullshit.

                • lurgee

                  So you actually have no opinion either way on this topic and you’re posting because … ?

                  Get a grip, the Left. you are, ersiously, making Hooton look good. That’s not the goal!

          • Tom Gould

            I heard Slater on Radio Live last night crowing about his “Labour Party sources” to feign credibility, which is utter bollocks. The oldest trick in the hollow-men play book. And in Garner’s by the looks of it. The real question is who is paying whom? Follow the money still works.

          • David H

            Well you explain it! Gower and Garner have both been linked to this bullshit, and you are trying to protect Garner. What do you know about this? And don’t say nothing, because that will be yet more lies from you!

            For once in your life, try telling the truth you will be surprised that it will make you feel good.

      • Martin 5.2.3

        “National is up in private and public polling because GCBS [sic] issue is not on the public’s radar”
        what makes you think that?
        people can only be fed rugby world cup for so long.

        • David H

          “because GCBS [sic] issue is not on the public’s radar”
          what makes you think that?”

          Well if you watched Campbell live last night. It’s in the public view now as they stepped through it bit by bit. And it stinks to high heaven.

      • rosy 5.2.4

        I think you are wrong in at least three ways.
        1) The coup talk didn’t come from National so there was no “distraction”.
        2) National is up in private and public polling because GCBS issue is not on the public’s radar, and so …
        3) The public haven’t “realised” anything out of the spy issue”

        1) You know this? Do tell… and I won’t feel the need to speculate anymore
        2) & 3) Campbell Live

  6. Boadicea 6

    Duncan Garner 9:05pm: Letter of no confidence being circulated.

    Grant Robertson 10:34pm: I have now confirmed with the whole Caucus. There is no letter.

    SUPERMAN Grant Robertson. In 89 minutes he gets around to checking on 33 MPs!

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 6.1

      Do you suppose he’s learned the “send to many” option? That’s when you can send the same message to a group rather than an individual. Now you’ve heard of it you might even find a use for it yourself.

      • McFlock 6.1.1

        Boadicea needs to figure out how to send a wooden tablet to many recipients simultaneously 🙂

        Archaeology humour, yuss!

    • Lightly 6.2

      yeah, well, you wouldn’t fuck around when that kind of rumor is circulating, would you?

  7. Enough is Enough 7

    You can crap on you like about Garner/Gower being played but come on, the only losers this morning, again, are the baffoons managing the Labour Party.

    Another distraction. A nother non-story that will consume everyone today and further convince any swinging voters who haven’t already given up on Labour, that this mob ain’t fit to govern.

    It is uterrly depressing that as this nation is robbed by an extreme right wing government, the baffoons in charge of the largest ‘left’ wing party, cannot manage themselves.

    Can we stop blaming the media for this mess (two cries about the media already this week r0b) and start ramming it home to those wanting to govern us that they need to sort their shit out.

    • Lightly 7.1

      actually, this is hugely damaging to Garner’s professional reputation. He’s set a bar now where anyone with a fake email address and a ipredict account can spark a coup rumour in an opposing party and he will fall for it. It’s hugely embarrassing for him and mediaworks.

      • Matthew Hooton 7.1.1

        [recovered from trash]

        [lprent: This is one of those irritating flaws in the comments system that allows comments to be trashed, and destroying the continuity when they have been replied to. Pulled this out of the trash. BTW: If I think someone is doing this deliberately, then they will get booted permanently. ]

        • insider

          Did you watch it? I think we should be told. You may have a vested interest in being entertained late at night.

          • Matthew Hooton

            I will neither confirm nor deny. Plus don’t really know. Got home from Christchurch about 9.30, turned on TV3 after seeing Garner tweets, woke up 2am with less than complete memory. So I may have seen it. Or I may not have. I certainly didn’t see the promised letter!

            • insider

              A likely story. You should have told us up front that you were in Christchurch. Dalziiel comes from there. So does Cosgrove. They’ve been mentioned as possible plotters, so you must have been advising them. You have to get up much earlier than 2am to fool standard readers.

            • Brett Dale

              Never confirm or deny?
              Dont people in court cases say that, when they dont want to tell the truth.

              • chris73

                Ask David Bain, he knows a thing or two about not speaking up…

              • North

                You’re a really ignorant moron Cheesy Boy. I treble that. A really, really, really ignorant moron. To the point where you’ve got a bloody cheek to even tap into this site.

                A high proportion of people, guilty or innocent, without the advice of a lawyer before talkie time comes, DO make statements to the investigating police, SOME of whom police unjustly put words in their mouths. Those who DO have lawyer access usually DON’T make statements. Guilty or innocent. They follow the professional advice the police have told them they are entitled by law to take. Carry it through to trial, refusal to confirm or deny is conclusive AGAINST the accused.

                Obviously, you idiot.

                Your comment is removed from arrant, ignorant bullshit, thicko, unless you can make a case for the repeal of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act which establishes the statutory entitlement of a person detained to be told that he/she may have legal advice and is NOT required to make a statement.

                How thick are you Cheesy Boy ? Or do you fancy that you could make such a case ?

                “Nothing to fear, nothing to hide” may be your mantra but when you’re on this site your reality seems to be “Nothing to protect, spread my shit wide……..”. Backwoodsman Fool ! Scarah Palin your idol is she ?

                • North

                  Sorry, CANNOT be removed from arrant, ignorant……..etc, unless you can make…….

                  And Palin your intellectual superior, patently so.

                • Rosetinted

                  If you have the time North could you advise which commenter and number that you are replying to. Sometimes things get isolated and I just can’t connect this with ones a bit further up.

                  • QoT

                    Rosetinted – I think the comment numbering’s gone a bit wacky so replies aren’t threading (this comment is meant to be a reply to you!)

                    • weka

                      It’s a known bug I think. Someone upthread deleted a post after a reply was made to it, and so all comments after that won’t thread properly (something like that).

                    • the pigman

                      If I can assist, North’s reference to Cheesy Boy is obviously a reply to the only Chesdale Boy to make it to TS (hint: name rhymes with “Shit Dale”… at least a half-rhyme 😉

                    • pigman

                      I perfer Dan Bale.

                    • Rosetinted []

                      the pigman
                      That is a very good, veiled, reply. I wonder if the GCSB will have the wit to follow all our allusions?

                    • Rosetinted []

                      the pigman
                      Connection closed by remote server. My first effort to communicate has gone AWOL somewhere.

                      What I was saying included the letters GCSB – do you think that might be a pointer to trouble at mill? I had said that your veiled information was clever and I wonder if the acronym would be able to keep up with our allusions, and perhaps they would just decide it was all part of an elaborate cryptogram or something and invade us all. I’ll take a copy of this before I submit.

                    • Rosetinted []

                      the pigman – third try
                      the pigman
                      Connection closed by remote server. My first effort to communicate has gone AWOL somewhere.

                      What I was saying included the letters GCSB – do you think that might be a pointer to trouble at mill? I had said that your veiled information was clever and I wonder if the acronym would be able to keep up with our allusions, and perhaps they would just decide it was all part of an elaborate cryptogram or something and invade us all. I’ll take a copy of this before I submit.

                    • Rosetinted []

                      I keep getting this closed by remote server stuff. And it appeared my comment had been lost. But when I closed the connection and opened it again there they all were. Phooey! I have had enough of political vicious circles for the day. Sorry about the annoying repetition folks.

            • David H

              Yeah, yeah, yeah, more Hootens Horseshit!

        • QoT

          For the first five minutes, perhaps. Then I’d expect a massive dropoff as everyone (like myself) realised we weren’t getting anything interesting …

      • Enough is Enough 7.1.2

        What reputation.

        I was listening to Radio Live the day Garner had an ‘impecable source’ inside the Supreme Court as the Maori Council won in the water rights dispute.

        Then 5 minutes later Garner was left spluttering as the rest of the world realised he was full of shit anf the government had won

      • weka 7.1.3

        actually, this is hugely damaging to Garner’s professional reputation. He’s set a bar now where anyone with a fake email address and a ipredict account can spark a coup rumour in an opposing party and he will fall for it. It’s hugely embarrassing for him and mediaworks.

        Which makes me wonder if this was a deliberate attack on Garner or the media.

        • saarbo

          Yes agree Weka, maybe Garner’s Labour source is a little pissed off with him for some reason and set him up…it is a plausible explanation for what happened.

          • marty mars

            I agree – this was a classic ploy to determine a couple of things – who the leaker in labour is beyond doubt and to discredit puffed up journos – I’d expect someone in labour will suddenly find that they are leaving because of *personal reasons* soon.

            • Brett Dale


              Is this labour guy also pissed at colin espiner who has confirmed that Shearer is out.

              • which labour guy? imo this has been run from the top to smoke out the rat.

                brett don’t be naive – journos want stories – that’s it! the only thing worse than not getting the story is not getting on the train when the story is moving – the truth? well that’s a ‘nice’ not ‘essential’ or ‘important’.

            • McFlock


              An old mole-hunting trick: say three suspects, tell one a firm time limit (“caucus meeting next week”), tell another about a letter (“xxx has it now, but would you be prepared to sign it when it comes to you?”), and maybe just “do the numbers” with another. And wait to see which rumours the journos spread over the next couple of days.

              And if the leaker is one of the caucus members that issued a categorical public denial, then they’ve also discredited themselves with the journos.

              It would require the caucus leadership to pull finger and show a bit more pizzazz than so far, but not outside the realm of possibility.

              It could just as easily be that political journos are like meteorologists without instruments – they tend to report rain when there are clouds overhead, and if someone else reports a storm coming even though you can’t see any clouds, say there might be rain (because you don’t want to look like the other one is better than you), but hedge your bets slightly in case the other person is wrong (hmmmm – garner reckoned a letter was going around yesterday, espiner says by the end of the year? Similar, but hedged methinks).

              • shearer is like key in that they are both constantly underrated by those who don’t like them – that is a fatal flaw if you actually want them gone.

              • QoT

                An old mole-hunting trick

                You’ve been watching Game of Thrones, haven’t you?

                (Or rather, you haven’t, because you said “old mole-hunting trick” instead of “cunning Tyrion plot”)

    • framu 7.2

      “Can we stop blaming the media’

      does it have to be either/or though?

      im quite happy to say that both the media AND the labour party need to sort their shit out.

      That being said – labour let the MSM play them like fiddles.

      Once, just once i would love to see labour MPs put gower and garner on the spot and confront them on their manufactured news as opposed to playing along

    • Red Rosa 7.3


  8. Mary 8

    Garner and Hipkins and whoever else are all arguing around the detail like a bunch of kids. The question is whether Shearer’s on his way or not and it’s pretty clear that he is and has been for a while now. Precisely how he goes is irrelevant, apart from who replaces him, of course. And on who does replace him, the reality is there’s nobody there who can do the job, plain and simple.

    • Chris 8.1

      “Precisely how he goes is irrelevant”???

      How he goes is more important than when he goes… the longer he clings to the leadership the more fodder he provides for whaleblubber and the other git david fearer. The Labour Party doesn’t need a helping hand in looking any more ridiculous, they manage that very well themselves.

      • Mary 8.1.1

        “How he goes is more important than when he goes…the longer he clings to the leadership the more fodder he provides for whaleblubber and the other git david fearer.”

        Isn’t “the longer he clings to the leadership” about when he goes?

  9. Blue 9

    Oh, if only the rumours were true.

    • Mary 9.1

      Doesn’t matter, but be happy that Shearer’s on his way. Lovely man, but he needs to go for the good of the country.

      • burt 9.1.1

        Half of Labour need to go for the good of the country. King & Mallard should give up having their snout in the trough as should all the others who supported the deeply self serving Clark on her crusade to world domination at the expense of democracy in NZ.

        • Colonial Viper

          Come back from the twilight Zone, burt.

        • geoff

          Absolutely burt, dunno about the clark stuff, but these cretins, these Mallards and Robertsons and Shearers and Goffs etc, they have got to go.

          Get Andrew Little in there. He’s the only person who could harness the power of the left. He’s so well respected and supported by big sections of NZ that I’m sure he could do the job.

          And let’s not forget what Labour really was, a party for the working class, before it got hijacked by suit-wearing beureaucratic fuckwits like the ones we’ve got in charge now.

          Next conference is going to be a doozey…

          • Colonial Viper

            Get Andrew Little in there.

            Not sure why Labour is so keen to send rookies over the trench top to get machine gunned.

            Little has a 20 year Parliamentary career ahead of him if he wants it, including a very definite shot at being PM. If he has any decent advisors, they’ll be telling him not to waste his shot on a premature throw of the dice.

            • geoff

              Two reasons:

              A) He’s not a political rookie like Shearer at all. The head of the EPMU is essentially a political political position and Andrew is very experienced from that and he performed incredibly well.

              B) There isn’t the time to worry about him prematurely blowing his load, so to speak. There’s so much economic suffering out there that it has just got to be done.

              Also, did you happen to catch the preferred prime minister rankings last poll? From what I heard (sorry no link), Andrew Little, who has had incredibly little (hur hur) TV exposure did really fucking well in it.

            • amirite

              I hate to make the comparison, but ShonKey too hasn’t spent a lot of time in parliament before becoming leader of the Nats.
              Little seems like a reasonable choice.

              • Colonial Viper

                Shonkey had a disciplined party and caucus behind him as well as the ages old experience of Bill English who did all the actual hard lifting.

                As for Little’s popularity in the leadership polls. Sits around where Robertson is at.

                • DavidC

                  CV you havent done a flip flop and started supporting someone that cant win a seat have you? Sexist or not.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Who are you referring to who hasn’t won a seat? Key or English?

                    Little is not ready to be Leader and he will be cut down in 2014 at the polls if he does stand up now.

              • DavidC

                major difference is that Little cannot win a seat and possibly that is because he has the personality of a dialtone 🙂 (Robbie Deans reference for those that missed it)

            • alwyn

              CV.I really want to burst into loud applause.
              That is the finest example of mixed metaphors I have seen in ages.
              “waste a shot on a premature throw of the dice” indeed.

          • Alanz

            “these Mallards and Robertsons and Shearers and Goffs etc, they have got to go”

            Before I log off for the night, I would love to extend my deepest appreciation to Goff who installed Shearer and has given Natz and their hacks to use Shearer to whack the Labour Party around. Thank you very much, Goff.

  10. amirite 10

    FFS Garner is hopeless, some time ago he tweeted that the Supreme court has put a stop on asset sale – I wish he was right -but it was the other way round unfortunately. As for Patrick Gower, he’d be a star in the Daily Mail type publication.
    Making news out of rumours and innuendo ain’t journalism, notwithstanding that Shearer was never a leadership material and should probably resign anyway.

  11. insider 11

    So much for journalism being the first draft of history…

    nice headline on the post BTW

  12. amirite 12

    And WhaleBlubber and Hooter – what a duo! Experts in making shit up and not much else.

    • David H 12.1

      Naaa Whaleblubber aint got the nous to make shit up he’s too thick. All his thinking is done for him by Lusk.

  13. karol 13

    Now Shearer is saying that the MSM should be reporting facts not innuendo and rumour….

    ….so different attitude from that of Team Shearer during last year’s Labour Party Conference:

    Live by insider “leaks”, die by them.

    • karol 13.1

      And now we know what Shearer’s parliamentary Labour Party stands up for: “everyday New Zealanders”, giving “everybody a fair go”. People who tell Shearer,

      They can’t afford to pay their power bills; they are not able to get the mortgage together for a house; the can’t get a good job, or they don’t have a chance to get a wage increase.

      So, “everybody”, “everyday New Zealanders”, doesn’t include the precariat, the unwaged, beneficiaries, people struggling to get any kind of job.


      Still voting Green next year.

      • wyndham 13.1.1

        And the bludger on a benefit who can still manage to paint the roof.

        • Rosetinted

          What are you on about you sneering s..t? Beneficiaries may still be able to do lots of things and indeed be forced to do them because they can’t afford to get professional painters in and haven’t friends or family who can help.

          People like you scorn others so that you can feel superior, you would scorn benes saying they don’t do anything to help themselves, and are a bunch of lazies, then when they do act to improve things for themselves, that proves to you they are bludgers. You don’t know why they are beneficiaries and are an ignorant, slandering, opinionated fool.

      • David H 13.1.2

        “Still voting Green next year.”

        Yep me too.

    • hush minx 13.2

      + 1

  14. Sable 14

    What a bunch of muppets.

  15. Santi 15

    No coup is possible. David Shearer must continue to lead Labour.
    He’s an outstanding leader. Long may it last.

  16. burt 16

    It’s not fair that Shearer is on 60 day probation period. The Labour party should confirm his job and stop trampling workers rights and leaving him uncertain about his future – he might need to access his millions off shore if he looses his highly paid job protecting the rights of low paid workers using their union subs for his own campaign.

  17. Lionel 17

    Garner still has traces of the synthetic cannabis he smoked on air in him

  18. Yes 18

    You know guys…if little and cunliffee get the nod..as sad as it is…will mean the unions have got their way. This 20% vote was always how it would pan out. Unions fund labour and unions get say in leadership. So much for democracy.

    It’s been nice being on here and had some good banter … But as some suggest I will go hide under my rock now but it is going to be a bit softer than the rocks that labour have found themselves in.

    Shame torn apart. Labour will never recover from this as it is in the constitution how leadership battles are played out.

    • Jilly Bee 18.1

      I worked for a union which did NOT fund Labour. Get your facts right YES.

      • Te Reo Putake 18.1.1

        I love your optimism, Jilly Bee! But Yes don’t need none of your steenking facts. They only get in the way of his trooling.

      • framu 18.1.2

        shit JB – Yes cant even do basic addition

  19. Rosetinted 19

    The involvement of ipredict in fuelling the rumor is interesting. Matthew Hooton does their PR. Someone could have made a few hundred bucks for an hour’s work supplying Garner with a rumor, boosting the appropriate stocks, and then dumping them before the story collapsed…. as long as Garner and ipredict gave the story cred.

    Isn’t this following the money making methods of playing the market both ways as in USA hedge funds?

  20. gobsmacked 20

    So Garner made a fool of himself, and fooled a lot of people (including me). Ha ha (Nelson voice) …

    Unfortunately this highlights two things-

    1) For the second time, Shearer and his MPs show energy and anger and move fast – in defence of themselves. (The first time was the conference last year).

    The Labour lethargy that drives voters to despair is suddenly transformed into Action. In minutes the story was crushed and the leader was saved. If only they could care so much about other things – like the people who elected them.

    2) The internal issue for the caucus seems to be who could replace Shearer. The “coup” won’t happen until they’ve decided on that.

    But the honourable – and smart – thing to do is for Shearer to step down of his own accord, and for a leadership contest to take place, so the leader is duly elected. Then the leader has a mandate, and the party unites for the election.

    Until that happens, this sorry mess will never be cleaned up.

    • karol 20.1

      Yep. Shearer is gone. Labour caucus do the right thing for the electorate, especially those of us on the left.

      • Colonial Viper 20.1.1

        They’ve ignore our pleas for a very long time, and I am no longer holding my breath.

        • weka

          So why isn’t the membership doing something about Shearer?

          • Colonial Viper

            Caucus is the gate keeper of the leadership primary trigger. In between elections, a motion of no confidence from 50% of MPs is required to initiate a leadership contest.

    • Olwyn 20.2

      I think that part of the reason that Shearer was made Labour Party leader came from external endorsement as “someone we could work with,” as opposed to the less pliable Cunliffe. If you look at the aspect of his leadership that Shearer protects, it is the “someone we could work with” aspect – he is willing to pick fights with the left of his party, the members of his party, other parties to the left of Labour, but not our corporate overlords.

      If Shearer is on his way out the ABCs will no doubt look for a more appealing appeaser to sell to the rest of us. They should consider that Julia Gillard, an experienced politician with a real left wing history, failed to pull off the “appease the corporates without alienating the punters” trick – it is too big an ask for someone as unfamiliar with politics as Shearer is, and unlikely to be successful even with a more battle-hardened contender. While any political party has to respond to the real conditions in which they find themselves, Labour must do better at shaping up to genuinely represent the people of this country. Even if their victories cannot be as large or as many as they may have been under different circumstances. it is time to face the music. Too much appeasement now is simply surrender, and the road to political oblivion.

    • lurgee 20.3

      “For the second time, Shearer and his MPs show energy and anger and move fast – in defence of themselves. (The first time was the conference last year).

      The Labour lethargy that drives voters to despair is suddenly transformed into Action. In minutes the story was crushed and the leader was saved. If only they could care so much about other things – like the people who elected them.”

      Well you wouldn’t expect them to sit around doing nothing while their enemies destroy them, would you? We can’t all be as stoic as Ceasar in the face of knife weilding assassins.

      As for ‘lrthary’ we’ve had Kiwibuild and the power policy outlined. That’s two pretty big policies outlined in the last few months. You really want them to hang out there manifesto over a year out from the election so National can take potshots at it?

      (I wish we had the sort of grown up policies that would allow parties to declare themselves well in advance so there could be a proper debate; but of course, we don’t. Probably, some will try to blame Shearer for that as well!)

      As usual, some in the Labour party and or the broader left are more interested in internecine conflict that attacking the government. And, of course, they claim that is Shearer’s fault as well.

      As I’ve said before, the left is wildly optimistic and naive in its reading of the recent global crisis. It was described as a crisis of capitalism (it was) and an opportunity to overthrow the pervading rightwing neo-liberal orthodoxy (It wasn’t). It presented the neo-liberals with an opportunity to ratchet up social division and attack the state. In these circumstances a centrist policy is important, because we’re fighting a defensive war just now, not an offensive one. For now, we need to accept this reality and and try to hold onto what we’ve got, rather than dream of the Socialist Utopia which will always been enacted tommorrow.

  21. Chooky 21

    When Shearer goes ( and he should go because it is obvious he cant ‘cut the mustard’ …and he said himself he would go if his trial period was not a success )… the only viable Labour Party leader is, the Labour rank and file choice for a long time , David Cunliffe.

    Cunliffe will be a force to pull the Labour Party together and heal the factions. He is not a petty man. He sees the big issues ….He has the intelligence,media skills and fighting charisma to take on Key ….. and destroy this destructive and corrupt Natgovt. Nothing else matters.

    Cunliffe has no bad baggage…..Little ( a public disaster in the Taranaki electorate), Roberston ( a backroom man with no public charisma) and Jones, ( who has his own liabilities, despite being very competent) don’t come within a ‘bulls roar’ of the grassroots popularity and competence of Cunlife.

    The Labour caucus must bow to the will of the people.

    Just as the Australian Labour Party had to eventually bow to the will and choice of the Australian Labour Party rank and file membership and Australian public .

    • weka 21.1

      “Cunliffe has no bad baggage”

      Apart from the fact that a core number of MPs really don’t like him and apparently can’t work with him?

      • Chooky 21.1.1

        Look closely at the quality of the “core number of MPs” who “really don’t like him and apparently can’t work with him”…..and their motives……how impressive are they exactly?

        Who are these MPS?…..old Rogergnomes?… ready for retirement ?….the envious?….thwarted ambitions?. From what I know of people who have worked with him (outside caucus) and alongside him in his office ….they are really impressed

        In the end it must be the rank and file of the Labour Party who are impressed and have their choice!….as with the Australian Labour Party.

        • Colonial Viper

          The count of core ABCs is 5-10 in number.

        • weka

          Sure Chooky, but they’re still there, unless you have a plan for getting them gone.

          As far as I can tell the rank and file have fuck all to do with it.

          • Chooky

            Oh I get you . You were being sarcastic….the “bad baggage” is caucus…squawk !

            • weka

              No I wasn’t being sarcastic, I was meaning that Cunliffe does in fact come with baggage (the ABCs). He shouldn’t be presented as having a clean slate. By baggage I don’t mean it’s his fault (I have no idea about his culpability), but simply that there are historical reasons for why his leadership might not work that well.

              • Colonial Viper

                With this motley, disloyal, crew of malcontents in caucus, no leader is going to be a good leader.

                The machine must be broken down into components before each part can be reconditioned and built up whole again.

                • weka

                  Still waiting for a plan 😉

                  • McFlock

                    cruel 🙂

                    • weka

                      Really? I thought I was being rather gentle. See what this place has done to me?

                      I do agree that no leader is really going to do well until the other problems get sorted out. Maybe that’s why there is no obvious contender that stands out.

                      (don’t know about the mechanistic analogy though).

                    • Colonial Viper

                      (don’t know about the mechanistic analogy though).

                      Just appealing to a Labour which is long dead.

                      Still waiting for a plan 😉

                      The plan is there, but the treasury is empty, the generals absent, and the big headed captains left squabbling and quarrelling amongst each other.

                    • McFlock

                      I have a sneaking suspicion (can’t think why) that one or two folk here believe that there is a single, obvious contender who will make labour bounce 10% (and sustain it) upon becoming leader.

                      Suggesting that firmly alienating a third of one’s colleagues is not a quality of a good leader goes against this belief. But it is an essential part of the “ABC” meme.

                      Asking for a clear plan to resolve a problem that only exists if one abandons such a firm belief highlights the contradiction in a well-established and fimly-held belief system. If one will excuse a religious analogy, it’s like asking why some of the firmer Christian sects are abstemious when JC was perfecty happy to cater a wedding.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Don’t be an ass McFlock. Support Shearer, he’s the Leader.

                      one or two folk here believe that there is a single, obvious contender who will make labour bounce 10% (and sustain it) upon becoming leader.

                      The Titanic is screwed. Whoever is stupid enough to be in the bridge at the time is screwed too.

                  • Chooky

                    Well Weka ….Kicking around the dust, us chooks believe that action is required from the grassroots chooks and roosters…Insurrection and getting rid of the Labour cabal at the top …(those cunning Roger roosters and hangers on chooks) ..is for the grassroots delegates to take union action….’STRIKE ACTION’….”No more work for the Labour Party until our leader choice is respected and elected.!”…STOP WORK meetings …NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE….. ‘the Standard’ pamphletised, edited, summarised, and printed could be delivered to the grassroots delegates/members and/or available to the general public……to help to clarify issues…and encourage them to read the Standard on line, if they have internet.
                    ( These days i read more of the Standard then the newspapers and I am not even a Labour voter, although I could be)

                    Weka …That is a plan!….. You think of a better one.

      • David H 21.1.2

        Well then Weka they DON’T HAVE to STAND at the next election. and to be honest we would be way better off without the bludgers. But until they clear out the bludgers like Mallard, King, Goff, and otherts who are just spinning wheels Labour will just go nowhere.

        • weka

          That completely misses the point David. The ABCs have power, they don’t want to leave. How is anyone going to get them to resign? Got a plan?

          In the meantime we will sit on the internet and analyse the situation to death and how much will change?

  22. lprent 22

    Hilarious… Couldn’t resist popping this to the top this morning.

  23. captain hook 23

    the fact of the matter is that Garner is one of new zealands first class creeps and the slime just oozes out of him.
    talking about tweets then he is just a steaming heap of crypto guano.
    Why take someone like him seriously?

  24. captain hook 24

    See that is the problem.
    Just because Garner is on TEEVEE then the whole country kisses his arse.

  25. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 25

    Garner claims his source is within caucus:

    As, frankly, it had to be.

    • felix 25.1

      Weird that you’re still hanging on his every word, considering how he’s been 100% wrong so far.

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 25.1.1

        What I don’t understand, Felix, is that you are one of Shearer’s most vocal critics. You frequently bang on about how hopeless he is. Do you think it impossible that no-one in his caucus has also noticed he’s useless? Or are you uniquely gifted in this, as in all else?

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

          Fuck. I mean

          Do you think it possible that someone in his caucus has also noticed he’s useless?

          • felix

            “Do you think it possible that someone in his caucus has also noticed he’s useless?”

            I should bloody well hope so. Doesn’t mean anyone mounted a coup though, and by all accounts no-one did.

            ps I’ve also been a fairly vocal critic of The Feelers. Hasn’t seemed to shut the useless bastards up though, has it?

            • insider

              Think yourself lucky your other half didn’t buy you one of their albums for a birthday…(voice of experience)

              • felix

                That’s awkward mate. Divorce? Or just pop out to the shops and never come back?

  26. rain33 26

    I do not post here very often. I have a strong interest in politics, but spend some time out of the country and find the NZ political scene very frustrating. Having said that, I have voted between Labour and Green, most often the former.

    Purely as an observer, I see the Labour Party at the moment wrestling with itself and its own identity. I know that a lot of people will accuse David Shearer of being the problem, or his leadership if the two can be separated. However, to me the issue runs much deeper. Re the Labour Party at the moment….I just ‘don’t get it’? Who are you…what are you?

    I hear the same tired old excuses, that Labour has a ‘great message’ but it’s not getting out there effectively. Well sorry, but no, you don’t have a great message at the moment. Sometimes I see National flat-out on the floor having been tripped up with yet another expose’ of some underhanded ‘goings on’. But by the time Labour have their response sorted out, proof read and debated ad nauseam to ensure nobody could possibly be offended, it’s all over.

    The world moves very quickly these days. Labour unfortunately is like the kid running after the school bus as it’s pulling away, homework flying everywhere and jersey falling out of his backpack. Lovely kid though.

    • Veutoviper 26.1

      Very well put, rain33. The analogy you have used is exactly how I feel about Labour’s current perfromance.

    • Rosetinted 26.2

      Lovely kid though. Probably a bit autistic. Needs a lot of help to express himself and find his own particular learning style and talents.

  27. If there is a coup, a lot of people will owe Garner an apology. If there isn’t he’s just
    one of many Journos who need to get their sources straight.

    • weka 27.1

      The only way Garner will get an apology is if someone produces a letter and proves it was signed yesterday.

    • QoT 27.2

      If there is a coup, a lot of people will owe Garner an apology

      Why? Broken clock/twice a day etc.

      • Saarbo 27.2.1

        haha, yes, one thing’s for sure with Shearer as Leader…there will be a coup eventually, that is a certainty!

    • karol 27.3

      Why would anyone apologise to Garner? Garner makes it a mission to obsessively hound some Labour MPs (Chris Carter for instance).

      he seems to like seeing lefties careers destroyed.

      Why doesn’t he turn some of his seek-and-destroy energies onto those doing the most damage to the country? Like our PM, for instance?

      • Rosetinted 27.3.1

        The PM has classier comforts and baggies to take away.

      • Boadicea 27.3.2

        Yes, Garner has repeated his anti-Cunliffe “ABC’s don’t like him” line soooo many times! Obsessively…almost.

        Yes, Duncan’s modus operandi is to paint a scenario and drive the news spin to vindicate his initial pitch.

        The gutless boy is taking advantage of the leadership vacume in his shop, arising from the receivership.

  28. Winston Smith 28

    I don’t think this is from National because the longer Shearer is the leader of Labour the better it is for National.

    I also don’t think Garner made it up because it would really damage his reputation (though for a journalist thats probably not that important)

    So unless someone in National is really mind-blowlingly stupid (like labour mp at sky city box stupid) this has to have come from Labour.

    I wonder who it is…

  29. tsmithfield 29

    It would be a good time for National to call a snap election at the moment. Just sayin.

    • felix 29.1

      Yeah it would.

      Have to have a plausible excuse if they plan to win though. What do you suggest?

      • tsmithfield 29.1.1

        Thats the problem.

        Maybe instability with coalition partners. However, neither Dunne nor the MP want to rock the boat at the moment because they will be toast if an early election is called. So, I am not so sure that would wash.

        Maybe the electorate would welcome an early election, even if it is just to see Shearer put out of his misery.

        • felix

          Any Labour supporters who don’t believe Labour can win in 2014 would surely prefer to lose early, no?

  30. Colin espiner has just tweeted.
    He seems to agree that Shearer is toast, or did I read his tweet wrong.

  31. the pigman 31

    The source of this rumor revealed. Our very own “Yes”, a prominent commenter at The Standard has been running this line since Monday:

    45,000 more signatures

  32. Colin Espiner has just tweeted again.

    Shearer will be rolled by the end of the year.

  33. Sara 33

    I think conversation going long.I agree with Brett…..

  34. Dave Is Toast 34

    Labour getting hammered from both outside and in.

  35. Nosam 35

    If I want to find out the truth about what is going on, it is not here. Shearer is gone-burger, this is just the beginning of his fall from grace. Shearer will be gone in a fortnight and a new leader will be appointed. The only problem is the caucus are too pussy to make a decision, but a decision will happen. You cannot have mumbles as leader anymore, he is an embarrassment.

    • gobsmacked 35.1

      “a new leader will be appointed.”

      A new leader has to be elected. Crucial difference. One that a few “pundits” haven’t worked out yet, bless their slow little heads.

  36. The New Zealand Labour Party needs to rediscover its founding ideals of championing equal economic opportunity for all citizens and businesses of legitimate enterprise and – protecting all citizens and businesses of legitimate enterprise from slave-minded monopolists trying to rip them off by force or financial trickery.
    Real Labour did not – and should not – support an uneconomic – unsustainable – model of commerce that proposes that citizens ripping off each other and the environment is the only way forward.
    Real Labour should not – in forums they know the working class does not frequent – talk fully of the pyramid aspects of the international money structures – that they know are being discussed and admitted at the highest levels of international regulatory agencies – for which I can produce mountains of proof – from their very own mouths – then when talking in more mainstream forums – disclose only tiny bits that see it remain a riddle to citizens and businesses of legitimate enterprise – who’s efforts and assets are being stolen under false pretences.
    Our public service structures for reasons of ignorance – in the main – but smatterings of fear or favour – is officially sanctioning a lie about the growing external and internal inequities our nation faces and the predatory pyramid aspects of the money structures that have taken us down this path.
    Real Labour should not be talking relentlessly about the symptoms of poverty among plenty without disclosing in full the cause – which with such a level of available evidence – is a lie to any longer cover it up in the manner they have been.
    Real Labour should not be covering up the fact that it has had – since its very founding in the late 1800’s – known the foundations of a plan that would break the predatory money structure pyramid scam we have suffered and return the economic sovereignty of our nation and the equal economic opportunity of the citizens and businesses of legitimate enterprise within it.
    Those that have been in the public service a long time and have only recently realised that a fraud against the nation has been committed on their watch – under their noses – must put aside their ego’s and – instead of attempting to tweak up a fix without disclosing their incompetency – come clean – because this financial pyramid can not be fixed by tweaking – it needs rebuilding from the ground up – from an angle of the greater common good.
    Real Labour – please return to your very founding ideals even more needed today than ever – for the very same reasons – or suffer death by a thousand cuts and another movement grabbing the baton to advance it toward the finish line.
    Real Labour have always known it was a class struggle that the upper levels of the current financial pyramid scam enjoy nothing more than the minority group lower levels scrapping each other to death – as it distracts them from looking up!

    • Colonial Viper 36.1

      Real Labour is a glistening idea and an ideal that NZ needs.

      Your analysis is sound and your insights valuable. But few in Labour today look further than than the spot in front of their shoes.

    • Peter 36.2

      Absolutely. Real Labour may very well be the name that takes Labour forward, although I expect many to resist it.

  37. Yes 37

    Gooooooooone…dalziel cosgrove little cunliffee…is that the quartet?

  38. Takere 39

    Looks like poor ole Dunk’n has been “Punk’d” by the Tories ….. Bridges Missus & Matthew Hooton & BlubberOil and of course Mr F%#kit (Joyce) seem to be the main culprits & Duncan got all caught up in the “moment” of a big scoop! Turned Out to be a turd, again. I wouldn’t be surprised if that fat prick Chris Pig Trotter was involved in it too?…….. I can’t reveal my sauces cause they’re in the caucus and I don’t want to out Moroney, Wall, Moira & Mahuta ….. they’re stand up people in my book?

  39. Takere 40

    Drunk’n Duncan got carried away with himself and now he’s been caught out making it all up, and so today he still can’t bring himself to admit he’s made it all up …. as well as losing his journo credibility, Mana and listenership. He’s now cohorted in the “Spinner” brothers, Gareth & Gyon to try and create a sense of authenticity of the coup. He should of done the honorable thing like his protege, the young, “BumFace” Paddy Gower & fessed up, they made it up! It’s too late to fire off a clay pigeon after you’ve fired the gun! This is going to be like one of Keys endless denials ….. like Standard & Poor’s told him that “if Labour were in government the country’s books would be worse” but then couldn’t remember who or when he’d been told that. Prick. So Duncans gunna join the “had been” a reasonable journo to a ambulance chaser! Fool!!

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