Open Mike 01/02/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 1st, 2018 - 144 comments
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144 comments on “Open Mike 01/02/2018 ”

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  1. eco maori 1
    1 February 2018 at 6:30 am

    Come on guys be nice we have a good thing going on you are friends I admire your work and support your show Breakfast TVNZ1 as I can see that your reporting is not influenced to much by people with vested interest .I see others were trying to use some dumb attacks on the Breakfast show using that same word I dislike very much race I don’t care who does the reporting so long as the message is factual fair and unbiased sorry about the burn yesterday but you do get a rateings bust from eco Ka pai

    • eco maori 1.1
      1 February 2018 at 7:08 am

      The west has a cheek casting stones at China about free SPEECH when I have not seen any articles with headlines of GLOBAL WARMING /CLIMATE CHANGE and this is the person who has influenced this phenomenon the bully .

      https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/101060523/us-president-donald-trumps-state-of-the-union-a-diatribe-against-immigrants

      So Americas can manipulate all New Zealand’s media well I say they can manipulate our Governments policy’s. There manipulation will always be better for the 1% and who gives a stuff about the common people the sheep this is the way I see it plane and clear .
      Ana to kai

      • eco maori 1.1.1
        1 February 2018 at 7:40 am

        Come on Mike I can see that your views have been influenced by something else ?? I will keep discrediting national till I see that there policy s change to benefit all the people of Aotearoa not just the 1% In my view the last leader that national had that has the same view as ECO MAORI was The Honorable Jim Bolger and they rolled him out of the Prime Minsters Job . Business do not make a country great Its the people all the people with disposable income to enjoy all the beauty and bounty of
        Aotearoa at the minute most people can not afford to take days off for a holiday they also cannot afford to pay for a holiday. Rents need to be included in OUR Consumer price index to fix this iniquity .This is the most expensive item of most peoples lives and its farcical to be left out of the Consumer price index ??????? Ka kite ano

      • eco maori 1.1.2
        1 February 2018 at 8:17 am

        Come on Mike I can see that your views have been influenced by something else ?? I will keep discrediting national till I see that there policy s change to benefit all the people of Aotearoa not just the 1% In my view the last leader that national had that has the same view as ECO MAORI was The Honorable Jim Bolger and they rolled him out of the Prime Minsters Job . Business do not make a country great Its the people all the people with disposable income to enjoy all the beauty and bounty of
        Aotearoa at the minute most people can not afford to take days off for a holiday they also cannot afford to pay for a holiday. Rents need to be included in OUR Consumer price index .This is the most expensive item of most peoples lives and its farcical to be left out ??????? Ka kite ano

        • eco maori 1.1.2.1
          1 February 2018 at 8:36 am

          Many thanks to Breakfast show for interviewing Dean Wicliffe his real life views on OUR Draconian justice system is the same as mine. It sucks our youth in and spits them out a bum in 20 to 30 years because of the fast pace changes in our society they cannot cope . It wont be long before one will need competence computation skills just to survive/ get help in Aotearoa.

          As for freedom campers well easy as humane fix charge a bit more at the border and provide the services that are need for the freedom campers . I don’t believe in fines as some bad people can use them as a weapon / tool control ______with people I pumped all my work out in 2 days to limit my exposure to you Know who. Ka kite ano

          • eco maori 1.1.2.1.1
            1 February 2018 at 9:26 am

            I see some more photos are going around of me and my whano probable when I was at the pools or the lake entertaining my mokos I am proud of the genetics my tepunas gifted me there is nothing wrong with a big chest I say I could easily tone up if I had the leisure time to exercise I wont buy a ride-on mower as pushing a mower keeps me fit I dont like wasting money on fitness so I get payed for my exercise as for plastic surgery I have seen many stuff ups you don’t get nothing for nothing there is always a cost in the end .
            I would rather spend the money on improving OUR mokos lives .Any smart ass comments about my physical appearance is like water off a ducks back . As I have already been conditioned to handle this human trait when I was a child .
            Ka kite ano

            • greywarshark 1.1.2.1.1.1
              1 February 2018 at 9:59 am

              You had better download the images you are talking of ecomaori otherwise it is mystifying.

              • eco maori …
                1 February 2018 at 3:37 pm

                This is for you greywarshark your pseudonym gives you away even though you try to be a shark and lie about your real motives you should know better than to ______ eco maori you got burned the last times you tried this .This is the proof I have been looking for on your sand fly m8 I have know that they are doing exactly what Richard Graeme has done and more and the people are still blinded by there shiny objects did they give you another big check GWS enjoy I know they are scared and pissed off. I have seen many people benefit from the sandflys dumb ass persecution of ECO MAORI IE bribes to there contracted lyres . here the link.

                http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11985283

                ANA TO KAI
                here is some thing to

                http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11983979

                • eco maori …
                  1 February 2018 at 3:51 pm

                  I think I should have stayed out of that debate GREENS MEDICAL BILL the state is fighting me tooth and nail trying to take the wind out of the sails of my WAKA but sorry its to late now Idiots dont treat people the government will realize that there neo liberal state employees are leading them down the wrong path I see that Jacinda has long term plans in place so thats all good Ka kite ano

                • greywarshark …
                  1 February 2018 at 6:40 pm

                  I am still mystified eco maori but will withdraw from communication with you if it brings on paranoia.

  2. Son of Don 2
    1 February 2018 at 6:44 am

    CoL politician crying that opposition did not support her bill, rather than asking why the CoL wouldn’t support. Looks like Greens are “Government Window Dressing”
    #greensremainlosers

    • Ed 2.1
      1 February 2018 at 6:51 am

      What an unpleasant comment.

      • Son of Don 2.1.1
        1 February 2018 at 7:02 am

        Only made unpleasant by your MP complaining on national media that the bill failed because of National. Silly me, there was I thinking the CoL had a majority

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1
          1 February 2018 at 7:35 am

          I note that David Farrar advocated that MPs send Swarbrick’s bill to select committee.

          Quite unusual in a conscience vote for one of the major party’s MPs to vote in unison. I wonder whether it’s ever happened before.

          • veutoviper 2.1.1.1.1
            1 February 2018 at 11:17 am

            Re your second para, I cannot remember any instance of a major party’s MPs voting in unison in a conscience vote but don’t have time right now to check. I certainly recall a number of times that voting in unison appears to be a requirement of NZF MPs, however!

            But last night’s vote in unison by National MPs seemed quite a turnaround from comments in the previous days – and earlier yesterday – by a number of National MPs that they might support the bill to select committee at least.

            However, there was indications of a heavy-hand approach in remarks by English and others before yesterday that just a few Nat MPs had been give dispensation to vote for the bill for personal reasons – rather than leaving it as a conscience vote for all Nat MPS.

            Then IMHO, the speculation of leadership challenges yesterday morning led to some pretty heavy remarks from English denying any challenges. These included remarks* about internal party discipline, working as a team etc etc which could be read as aimed at Nat MPs rather than just public statements. These may have well persuaded Nat MPs that this was definitely not the time to exercise their conscience vote rights on the Greens’ Bill.

            * Heard these on one of the many RNZ news items yesterday pm but cannot identify exactly which one without a lot of time and trawling through these.

            I note that today English is also making statements to the effect that he does not expect leadership to be discussed at the Nat Party Caucus two day retreat in Tauranga next week. We will see. (When and where was that Bridges’ BBQ?)
            http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/349382/english-remains-confident-of-leadership

        • Ed 2.1.1.2
          1 February 2018 at 7:49 am

          Well I hope some of those National MPs have uneasy consciences.
          People will suffer unnecessarily because they allowed themselves to be bullied by Bill and Paula.

          • Grantoc 2.1.1.2.1
            1 February 2018 at 10:27 am

            Ed

            I presume you’ll be extending your “uneasy consciences” criticism to Labour MP’s who voted against the bill as well as to Labour’s Coalition partner NZ First, who also voted enmass against the bill?

            Equally “People will suffer ……because they allowed themselves to be bullied by” Labour MPs and NZ First MPs. I assume you mean this too to be fair?

            Looking at the politics of this through a different lens; its curious to me as to why the Greens were not able to get their coalition partners to provide enough support for this bill to at least get it to the committee stages. After all the Greens are bending over backwards to support legislation that is unpalatable to them ( e.g. the waka jumping bill).

            My advice to the Greens is to withdraw their support for that piece of legislation in particular (the waka jumping bill) given the disdain by which they have been treated on Swarbrick’s bill..

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2.1.1
              1 February 2018 at 11:57 am

              I presume you’ll be extending your “uneasy consciences” criticism to Labour MP’s who voted against the bill as well as to Labour’s Coalition partner NZ First, who also voted enmass against the bill?

              Yes.

              Equally “People will suffer ……because they allowed themselves to be bullied by” Labour MPs and NZ First MPs.

              What bullying?

              Looking at the politics of this through a different lens; its curious to me as to why the Greens were not able to get their coalition partners to provide enough support for this bill to at least get it to the committee stages.

              Considering the support out in the population the Greens shouldn’t have needed to get support. As a ‘democracy’ the people’s representatives should have followed the people wishes and supported it.

              After all the Greens are bending over backwards to support legislation that is unpalatable to them ( e.g. the waka jumping bill).

              I think that you’ll find that the waka jumping bill isn’t unpalatable to the Greens no matter how much you would like to think it is.

              • Grantoc …
                1 February 2018 at 12:37 pm

                Draco

                Ed made the “bullying” comment in his original post – I’m quoting him.

                But you make a good point – what bullying? – and that is unclear to me to.

                Perhaps Ed can enlighten us.

                • You_Fool …
                  1 February 2018 at 1:37 pm

                  The difference I see is that Labour and NZF allowed for a true conscious vote, whilst English said it wasn’t, just that any could cross the floor if they wanted (and were willing to go see him and say they didn’t like what he said)… One was freedom of choice for the MPs and one was not

                • mauī …
                  1 February 2018 at 2:10 pm

                  Ed has better things to do like advocate for a plant based diet. Now that Veganuary has ended there is never a better time to reconsider one’s eating habits.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  1 February 2018 at 2:31 pm

                  Ed made the “bullying” comment in his original post – I’m quoting him.

                  No you weren’t. Ed made it quite clear that he was referring to the National party being whipped on a conscience vote.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.3
          1 February 2018 at 11:50 am

          You know something? The MPs are their to represent the people. 80% of the people want medicinal cannabis and more than 50% want full legalisation including recreational use.

          By not voting for this bill those MPS failed to do their job of representing us.

          Ny not voting for it they proved that we do not live in a democracy.

      • tc 2.1.2
        1 February 2018 at 7:03 am

        Yes the type of attitude that lauds over their destructive behaviour as ‘winning’ with an overuse of the first person like it’s ‘your’ MP rather than an MP.

    • Carolyn_Nth 2.2
      1 February 2018 at 7:09 am

      By a person’s name shall they be known.

      SoD = “born-to-ruler” ethos. Still grieving loss of power.

      Meanwhile, those in pain and in need of cannabis are still suffering.

      Good effort by new MP outside of government.

    • chris73 2.3
      1 February 2018 at 7:36 am

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/101038343/controversial-medicinal-cannabis-bill-expected-to-come-down-to-wire

      “The bill lost 47 votes to 73, with both every National and NZ First MP voting against it”

      “Of the 46 Labour MPs in Parliament 38 voted for the bill, along with every Green Party MP and ACT leader David Seymour.”

      I guess its easier for her to blame National rather than blame NZFirst and the Labour MPs that didn’t vote for it

      • Chuck 2.3.1
        1 February 2018 at 8:51 am

        Swarbrick had her instructions – be blind to any Labour or NZF rejection of the bill.

        • The Chairman 2.3.1.1
          1 February 2018 at 9:15 am

          Therefore, are you saying we shouldn’t expect the Greens to pressure the Government to bring forward the cannabis referendum?

          • Chuck 2.3.1.1.1
            1 February 2018 at 9:56 am

            The Greens should be calling out NZF and Labour (the MP’s who voted against). Not just National.

            I want the Greens to pressure the Government on this issue.

            • The Chairman 2.3.1.1.1.1
              1 February 2018 at 10:44 am

              “I want the Greens to pressure the Government on this issue”.

              Ditto.

              And seeing as Labour’s bill fails to protect the majority of suffering ill seeking to use it, the need for urgency still remains.

              But do Shaw and the Greens have enough fight in them to apply that pressure?

              Last I heard he was softening up supporters for the swallowing of some dead rats.

              • Enough is Enough …
                1 February 2018 at 10:47 am

                Yep.

                Labour should have been whipped on this. It is disgraceful that they are supporting everything Winston wants (all weather race tracks) but won’t see this through to select committee.

                • The Chairman …
                  1 February 2018 at 11:52 am

                  It is disgraceful that some of Labour and all of NZF failed to get this to select committee.

                  • alwyn …
                    1 February 2018 at 4:08 pm

                    Any more Labour votes would have been completely irrelevant.
                    Without any support from New Zealand First for it it would merely have failed by 65 to 55.
                    Isn’t it wonderful how New Zealand First can simply ignore anything the Green Party wants while the Greens must get immediately into line and vote for NZF proposals like fishing the Kermadecs and passing a Waka jumping bill?

                    • The Chairman …
                      1 February 2018 at 4:44 pm

                      Even if NZF supported it, those extra Labour votes would have been vital.

                      “Isn’t it wonderful how New Zealand First can simply ignore anything the Green Party wants while the Greens must get immediately into line and vote for NZF proposals like fishing the Kermadecs and passing a Waka jumping bill?”

                      It points to Peters experience and ability to negotiate. And leaves questions surrounding what are the Greens going to get for swallowing some dead rats.

                    • BM …
                      1 February 2018 at 7:01 pm

                      And leaves questions surrounding what are the Greens going to get for swallowing some dead rats.

                      Breath that smells of rodent.

                • Tanz …
                  2 February 2018 at 12:42 am

                  Price of power. Funny but sad, as we now go back to the days of Muldoon.

      • greywarshark 2.3.2
        1 February 2018 at 9:57 am

        It seems to be easy for you chris 73 to back National in any disagreement. But simply, if National had allowed a conscience vote, some of them would have found one and supported medical cannabis.

    • Psycho Milt 2.4
      1 February 2018 at 7:52 am

      More to the point: National Party MPs uniformly opposed to cannabis law reform, still living in the 1950s.

      • Bearded Git 2.4.1
        1 February 2018 at 8:44 am

        +1000000000

      • Puckish Rogue 2.4.2
        1 February 2018 at 8:45 am

        At some point the Greens need to wake up (or woke) to how they’re views by both Labour and NZFirst

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.4.2.1
          1 February 2018 at 8:54 am

          National mouthpiece pretends to speak for Labour and NZ1st 🙄

          • Puckish Rogue 2.4.2.1.1
            1 February 2018 at 10:04 am

            Don’t you think it speaks volumes that all of NZFirst and some of Labour didn’t support the bill

            • weka 2.4.2.1.1.1
              1 February 2018 at 11:26 am

              yes, but the Greens were still right with their Bill. That NZF and some Labour MPs voted against it bears analysis but not of the Greens.

              • The Chairman …
                1 February 2018 at 11:48 am

                “That NZF and some Labour MPs voted against it bears analysis but not of the Greens”

                An internal analysis of the Green’s and Labour’s negotiation and their ability to influence NZF may be worth considering.

                • David Mac …
                  1 February 2018 at 7:57 pm

                  A vote needs to be won before the show of hands.

                  Winston needs to see a utube clip of 20 clean-cut older folk speaking of the pain relief they find in cannabis that end their cameos with… ‘and I vote for Winston’s lot.’

                  The groundswell of support in our country indicates that it’s just a matter of time. Astute politicians strive to surf the crest of new waves.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.4.2.1.1.2
              1 February 2018 at 12:00 pm

              Yes. It proves their anti-democratic bent.

            • Psycho Milt 2.4.2.1.1.3
              1 February 2018 at 12:50 pm

              Don’t you think it speaks volumes that all of NZFirst and some of Labour didn’t support the bill

              It speaks volumes that all of NZ First and all of National didn’t – just goes to show that both are parties of small-minded parochial conservatives who are drastically out of step with the NZ population and shouldn’t be put in charge of running a country. Not seeing anything much about Labour in there.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                1 February 2018 at 2:12 pm

                Well heres the thing the Greens are selling their principles in backing the waka jumping bill and in return NZFirst didn’t support the Greens bill

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  1 February 2018 at 2:24 pm

                  No, the Greens aren’t selling their principles. They’ve obviously thought about it since Rod Donald’s time and realised that supporting waka jumping is the unethical position.

                • weka …
                  1 February 2018 at 2:33 pm

                  The Greens have said they will compromise on policy but not on the core principles. You’d have to demonstrate that what the Greens are doing undermines their core principles for your statement to be meaningful.

                  • alwyn …
                    1 February 2018 at 4:16 pm

                    Are these “core principles” actually documented anywhere?
                    Is there a single place that spells out the things they would die in the ditch for as opposed to things they will abandon?
                    What are the things they will not comprise on in pursuit of the baubles of office.

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      1 February 2018 at 4:51 pm

                      They do have a web site, you know.

                    • alwyn …
                      1 February 2018 at 5:10 pm

                      I know that Psycho.
                      It is here.
                      https://www.greens.org.nz/
                      I goes on and on and on with policies but that doesn’t help.
                      Weka is saying that they will compromise on policies but not on core principles. I cannot find anywhere where it says what the “core principles” are. If they aren’t listed anywhere a statement about them is being sacrosanct is quite meaningless.

                    • McFlock …
                      1 February 2018 at 5:24 pm

                      Start with their constitution.

                      Then complain that there’s not a list of bullet points labelled “core principles” to help you autofill the “waste time” fields in your “distraction troll” interaction module.

                    • weka …
                      1 February 2018 at 5:58 pm

                      I’m very confident the Greens don’t intend to die in a ditch. But, seeing as how you appear to be interested,

                      The charter is the founding document of The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand.

                      The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand accepts Te Tiriti o Waitangi as the founding document of Aotearoa New Zealand; recognises Maori as Tangata Whenua in Aotearoa New Zealand; and commits to the following four Principles:

                      Ecological Wisdom:

                      The basis of ecological wisdom is that human beings are part of the natural world. This world is finite, therefore unlimited material growth is impossible. Ecological sustainability is paramount.

                      Social Responsibility:

                      Unlimited material growth is impossible. Therefore the key to social responsibility is the just distribution of social and natural resources, both locally and globally.

                      Appropriate Decision-making:

                      For the implementation of ecological wisdom and social responsibility, decisions will be made directly at the appropriate level by those affected.

                      Non-Violence:

                      Non-violent conflict resolution is the process by which ecological wisdom, social responsibility and appropriate decision making will be implemented. This principle applies at all levels.

                      https://www.greens.org.nz/charter

                      In order to understand what those things meant to the Green Party, you would need to listen to what *they say about them, not just jump in with your own superficial interpretations based on your own thinking. I’ve written posts about this shit. Matt writes about it frequently. There’s plenty of discussion around about it if you pay attention.

                      Edit, Charter is linked at the bottom of the GP website front page.

      • Tanz 2.4.3
        2 February 2018 at 12:31 am

        Along with eight Labour MPs. Living in the past also? Good on them, God Bless, sanity prevailed. The Greens sold their soul to Winston for power, they traded nothing, could have worked out a deal for their support of the undemocratic Waka Jumping Bill…could have.

  3. Stuart Munro 3
    1 February 2018 at 8:03 am

    Parliament showing its inadequacy again. They were quick enough to legalize the infinitely more dangerous synthetics. It’s a sisyphaen task get anything past these backward numpties.

    • Chuck 3.1
      1 February 2018 at 8:57 am

      Agree, utter madness with the synthetics. The cannabis law reform bill should have moved onto the next stage.

      • Stuart Munro 3.1.1
        1 February 2018 at 12:53 pm

        It’s hard to be sure how much, but some degree of legalization should displace the synthetics, which despite the change in their legal status continue to kill and sicken people.

        • Ed 3.1.1.1
          1 February 2018 at 5:20 pm

          It would be great if a template letter was out there that could be sent by email to people’s local MPs expressing their disgust.

          • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.1.1
            1 February 2018 at 6:26 pm

            I could give it a go, but it would have more authority coming from a physician with expertise in the clinical issues and the standing of having had to treat the victims of the synthetic product. Mark Reeves (in Nelson) has spoken against it before.

          • David Mac 3.1.1.1.2
            1 February 2018 at 8:52 pm

            Ha! That idea fascinates me Ed.

            I saw a 60 Minutes interview with the whizz kid plucked from nowhere that was responsible for creating millions of different facebook ads targeted at the individual selling Trump.

            A template email to express a particular concern is a rudimentary starting point but us humans work on emotions.

            If writing to Kelvin Davis an intelligent template could pluck at his heartstrings.

            “Saw you at the Taipa ramp last Tuesday Kelvin, you suggested I write.”

  4. esoteric pineapples 4
    1 February 2018 at 8:37 am

    We can blame National, NZ First or Labour MPs who didn’t vote for the medical cannabis bill but the big picture is that New Zealand is run by “straights” as much as it was 40 years ago and based on this result it will be no different in another 40 years’ time. There is the expectation that as more and more people will accept cannabis use as okay, it will eventually become legal, especially as this is already happening in the United States and elsewhere but this is purely an assumption. It could indeed be accepted by half or more of the population but the people who control New Zealand society are conservative and will likely continue to have the power to keep it illegal. One only has to look at Jamaica which is known for its cannabis smokers where it remains highly illegal.
    Back in the seventies they used to say “never trust a straight” and this remains true to this day.

  5. Adrian Thornton 5
    1 February 2018 at 9:01 am

    Israel (or people acting in their defense) yet again display their epic levels of double standards without even pausing for breath,…
    As usual, their argument…Israel is the most democratic country in the middle East.
    Their actions….Sue ( read threaten) activists who wrote an open letter to a artist asking them not to tour ( and by default support) the apartheid regime of Israel.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018630217/nz-activists-face-legal-action-over-lorde-s-israel-snub

    But then again, what else could one expect from a country that regards Donald J. Trump as it’s greatest and closest US presidential ally in generations…this one fact alone speaks volumes as to the depths to which Israel has allowed itself to sink.

    • Bill 5.1
      1 February 2018 at 9:34 am

      Norman Finkelstein “called” this approach by the state of Israel – the claim that BDS wants to destroy Israel. It made him unpopular with the BDS movement. Thing is, although some might not “like” what he says, he’s bang on the money. He lays it out in this video interview from 2012. It’ll be difficult listening for some.

        • Bill 5.1.1.1
          1 February 2018 at 9:55 am

          Finkelstein is supportive of BDS tactics. But he condemns their goal – the elimination of Israel.

          And having quickly read the Chomsky piece, he makes the same point. Anarchist that he is, he also suggests a “no state” as a preferred alternative to a “two state” solution. 😉

          While there is near-universal international support for (1), [Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall] there is virtually no meaningful support for (3) beyond the BDS movement itself.[Respecting, protecting, and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.] Nor is (3) dictated by international law. The text of UN General Assembly Resolution 194 is conditional, and in any event it is a recommendation, without the legal force of the Security Council resolutions that Israel regularly violates. Insistence on (3) is a virtual guarantee of failure.

      • Adrian Thornton 5.1.2
        1 February 2018 at 10:36 am

        I am in agreement with both Finkelstein and Chomsky, I think this is more about Israel (through proxies) threatening anybody,anywhere, even some young girls on the other side of the planet, for showing any kind of solidarity with Palestine through any action whatsoever, and is only about the BDS movement by default.

        • Bill 5.1.2.1
          1 February 2018 at 11:19 am

          I’m thinking it’s the BDS agenda that’s giving the Israeli state its required leverage and it’s irrelevant in terms of pubic perception whether “Dayenu” (New Zealand Jews Against Occupation) that Justine Sachs set up agrees or endorses BDS’s agenda.

          It’s a simple enough case of – Brush. Tar. Apply.

    • joe90 5.2
      1 February 2018 at 11:39 am

      Seems it’s a Mossad affiliated wingnut welfare scam that supports it self by running “Intellitours” to Israel which include meet ups with Shin Bet assassins.

      Her arguments are regularly rejected by courts. About 90 percent of the $1.6 billion in default judgments against no-show defendants including Iran, Syria, North Korea and the militant Palestinian group Hamas have not been paid.

      […]

      Critics call it “lawfare,” abusing the courts to score political points. Some on the left have refused to face off with Ms. Darshan-Leitner on Israeli talk shows after she made what they saw as ridiculous statements, like suggesting that Israel drop a nuclear bomb on Tehran.

      “She’s definitely a nuisance,” said Jonathan Arnon, an Israeli lawyer who has represented the Palestinian Authority opposite her. “She has a lot of resources. She tries and finds every niche and note and every possible argument whether it is relevant or not, to make fatigue.”

      Even American lawyers who work on the same side have clashed with Ms. Darshan-Leitner over costs, and say she is a tangential part of the process.

      “She’s pretty good at filing cases and putting out news releases, but she has really no involvement in actual litigation,” said one, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of ongoing cases. “There are U.S. lawyers who are actually litigating the case, putting up all the expenses, and then there’s this person in Israel who has her own narrative.”

      […]

      Her organization, Shurat HaDin, Hebrew for letter of the law, was founded in 2003, and in 2012, the latest year financial reports were available publicly, had 11 employees, three with salaries topping $100,000. It retains not one but two public relations firms, in Israel and New York, pitching Ms. Darshan-Leitner’s perspective on the news. She said the annual budget was $2.5 million, but declined to name her donors, citing security concerns.

      The group requires a $600 to $5,000 donation for participants in its mission to Israel, featuring briefings by intelligence agents and observations of military court trials. This summer, it is offering an activist lawyer’s training seminar, with an agenda that includes combating boycotts of Israeli products and defending Israeli soldiers against charges of war crimes.

      She claims to have collected $150 million from the various court victories but would not specify which clients got what, citing security again. And she asked that the West Bank settlement where she and her American-born husband, also a lawyer, built a large, immaculate home, not be named, for fear of reprisal.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/24/world/middleeast/crusading-for-israel-in-a-way-some-say-is-misguided.html

  6. Chuck 6
    1 February 2018 at 9:13 am

    The so-called foreign buyer house ban (unless you are Australian or from Singapore or are buying a new house or…)

    Input from the Auckland Law Society…

    “Lawyers fear $20,000 fines for failing to give information on foreign investors’ citizenship status and say they would be forced into an impossible position by the Government’s planned foreign house-buyer ban.”

    “A strongly-worded 23-page Auckland District Law Society submission has gone to the Finance and Expenditure Select Committee, objecting to putting the onus on lawyers and conveyancers for checking the citizenship status of trusts, companies and people if the new law is passed.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11985268

    Maybe they could use the Twyford test? if the surname sounds foreign then they are foreign 🙂

  7. savenz 7
    1 February 2018 at 9:31 am

    “Migrant worker describes ‘modern day slavery’ scam”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/339373/migrant-worker-describes-modern-day-slavery-scam

    Shocking, inspite of a recording of the scam the immigration service did not bother to pursue it! Cheating is cheating and exploitation is exploitation!

    I feel sick when I go around and increasingly you are seeing beaten down migrants toiling away in cafes, restaurant and hotels all around the country, probably caught up in this slavery practise that has been allowed to flourish for years.

    For every reason, human rights to the victims, criminal activity, our lower and lower waged economy from this slavery practise and our NZ’s business reputation and tourism, this practise should be stamped out, immediately, and under cover operations started to catch the corrupt immigration officials and agents and the employers.

    • OncewasTim 7.1
      1 February 2018 at 4:40 pm

      I concur utterly! I see sensible commentary from the likes of Alistair McClymont and some at RNZ who’ve maintained an interest and continue to monitor things.
      The past 9 years have encouraged exploitation….even today anybody is encouraged to become an ‘immigration consultant’and many are at the healm of the exploitation – with cosy little links and alliances to some of the dodgy PTEs, recruitment and labour supply companies, even now in building and home improvement scams.
      What gets my goat most is that the victims get the blame whilst the exploiters continue on their merry way! The IAA should have been keeping a closer watch, but like the Labour Inspectorate and INZ itself, it’s been under resourced.
      I doubt some of them actually quite understand how many lives they’ve come close to destroying whether through financial loss or respect in the communities they now live in.
      FFS! NZ….do something about the exploiters without destroying their victims. That in itself would lower immigration numbers.
      Currently I am travelling around places where I see the bullshit promises and claims made daily.
      It really is quite pathetic.
      And at the same time, I know of cases where people have already made a valuable contribution to NZ at great personal cost, and who are being put through hoops in order to stay.
      I’m yet to be persuaded too that INZ and associated entities like the IAA should remain under MBIE. The record so far is very very ugly … but then maybe they’re relying on a new CEO. IF IT DOES, it’ll still be the ‘business of immigration’ based on economic imperatives rather than wider concerns.

  8. savenz 8
    1 February 2018 at 9:37 am

    About time the government cracked down on this too….

    Student visa scheme exploited for residency

    “New Zealand’s new permanent residents are now less skilled than five years ago, due to some international students exploiting the student visa scheme, official documents say.”

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/349104/student-visa-scheme-exploited-for-residency

    Personally think it should say….

    New Zealand’s new permanent residents are now less skilled than five years ago, due to poor international students courses operating in NZ, bad immigration legislation, zero oversite and crack down of the practise, bizarre ‘skilled’ categories like restaurant managers or cafe workers for fast food and low level IT workers being labelled as a way to get residency, employers wanting cheaper labour rather than quality and immigration agents exploiting the student visa scheme…

    • OncewasTim 8.1
      1 February 2018 at 8:42 pm

      See 7.1 above @savenz.
      One thing I’ve noticed between working in the public service in the 70s and post 80s reforms is that snr mngmnt Do Not like criticism – offered construcyively or not.
      And sometimes pointing out the bleeding obvious can invite the full force of the state apparatus.
      It’s quite pathetic at times.
      MBIE’S FAILINGS are a matter of record under its previous CEO.
      I sincerely hope things will change.

  9. The Chairman 9
    1 February 2018 at 9:50 am

    Considering the Green’s bill failed to get over the line. And seeing as the need for urgency still remains (i.e. Labour’s medicinal cannabis bill fails to protect the majority of the ill seeking to use it from prosecution). Evidently, it’s clear the cannabis referendum requires to be brought forward.

  10. savenz 10
    1 February 2018 at 9:58 am

    “Brian Rudman: Time to stop ‘gold-plated dream scheme’ for waterfront”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11984685&ref=twitter

    Shocking, the waterfront belongs to the Aucklanders and the harbour is being sacrificed to benefit certain business interests – it’s 2.0 – going from bananas to parking and less and less harbour.

    BTW – it costs a lot to maintain man made wharves so not only will Aucklaners have to bear the cost of the wharves, have their harbour stolen, but there are also lasting costs – and who knows how much they will cost to maintain with climate change.

    Government should step in and stop the Auckland council who when last polled got less than 20% satisfaction rate from ratepayers as well as doing complete balls up constantly for the environment and local business in their quest to concrete Auckland to provide big business more $ and opportunities at the expense of small and medium business and the community that funds them.

    • Ad 10.1
      1 February 2018 at 10:17 am

      Auckland Council are pressing along irrespective of Parker’s misgivings.

      Initial races are mid 2019 – very little time to build anything.

      • savenz 10.1.1
        1 February 2018 at 11:19 am

        Even worse then to be looking to steal the harbour and reclaim the land. Remember America’s cup is a billionaire fringe sport we are talking about…. but everyone has to drop everything and destroy Aucklander’s heritage for this one off event, which will then probably be donated or sold off cheap to corporate interests for parking, ferries etc by stealth.

        Given the shortage of time, shouldn’t the powers that be, look at other locations or why can’t they do what they did last time? Who bothered planning ahead, obviously not the America’s cup governance body or they would have something in place that did not involve stealing and creating a new wharf with public money with is obviously filled with pit falls and public opposition.

        America’s cup is being used as a means to hijack public money and resources. Obviously a lot of snouts in the trough using the America’s cup to steal the harbour.

        Just look at Tamaki drive, climate change is here. The north western highway had years of road works, millions of $$$ and delays to raise part of it, but flooded last time.

        Whatever AT and NZ Transport does seems to be a disaster. Something wrong with their culture and ability to plan effectively and with minimal disruptions. They seem to be opportunists with little planning ability and more interest in grabbing money and taking away community say using excuses and using poor advice, that their strong arm tactics are working. I’d say not at all, transport wise, value for money and public satisfaction.

        • Ad 10.1.1.1
          1 February 2018 at 2:24 pm

          No hijack – all options were debated and voted in open Council session.

          AT and NZTA have nothing to do with it.

          Increased harbour footprint is tiny. Most of Auckland’s CB D, all of Victoria Park, and the whole rail system is on thousands of hectares of reclaimed land. So not even the fish will miss a few more metres.

          All global sport is run by billionaires.
          Deal with.

          • Molly 10.1.1.1.1
            1 February 2018 at 7:26 pm

            “No hijack – all options were debated and voted in open Council session.”
            Except the option to not finance anything on the waterfront?

            • Ed 10.1.1.1.1.1
              1 February 2018 at 7:29 pm

              Yes we never got the chance to say we weren’t interested in funding corporate bludgers.

      • savenz 10.1.2
        1 February 2018 at 4:14 pm

        And don’t forget Phil Goff who was pretty much gifted the Mayoralty when the righties ran two righties against each other to split the vote so that super right TPPA posing as leftie supporting Goff could win.

        Goff also campaigned on NOT taking more of the harbour but now back tracking with weasel semantics.

        I love how lefties and politicians seems to be concerned about the lack of people voting and the loss of democracy, but don’t actually factor in the constant betrayals of what politicians campaign on, and political tricks to gain power.

    • Carolyn_Nth 10.2
      1 February 2018 at 6:26 pm

      More centralisation is madness.

      People on the North Shore tell me there seems to be a load lot of cars there the last week or two, so traveling around the shore and along the northern motorway is becoming very time consuming.

      There’s a long commute from Orewa – 2 hours this morning it took 1 person from Orewa to Takapuna. The queue of slow moving traffic southwards on the northern motorway was still there after 10am – and a long queue at the same time from Takapuna of people trying to head southwards at the same time

      They’ve recently opened a new car park, and added buses for park and ride from Silverdale. new housing developments on the Hibiscus Coast, Warkworth, and Wellsford attracting more Aucklanders – so way more people commuting to the CBD because that’s where the work is.

      And some corporate entities want another centralised attraction in the CBD.

      More than Jesus is weeping.

  11. Naki man 11
    1 February 2018 at 1:11 pm

    “Remember America’s cup is a billionaire fringe sport we are talking about…. ”

    Thats bullshit, America’s cup is a spectator sport. There are more than 120 affiliated yacht clubs in New Zealand – and more than 300,000 members.
    Name one current America’s cup sailor who is a billionaire?
    this is a reply to the above post

    • McFlock 11.1
      1 February 2018 at 1:21 pm

      Take the billionaire-sponsored boats out of it, it’d be an even smaller competition.

      • Naki man 11.1.1
        1 February 2018 at 2:10 pm

        It’s not about the number of teams in the event.
        This is the F1 of yachting, in the city of sails. The city with more boats per capita than any other city in the world. You can try to pretend its not a big deal but millions of fans will be watching.

        • McFlock 11.1.1.1
          1 February 2018 at 3:21 pm

          “F1 of yachting”.
          Bollocks.

          It’s more akin to the PGA tour, watching skilled professionals perform moderately boring tasks on rich-people’s facilities that only recently allowed someone other than white men to join.

          • Naki man 11.1.1.1.1
            1 February 2018 at 4:01 pm

            “F1 of yachting”.
            “Bollocks”

            Here is a link to help with your ignorance of America’s cup.
            A little research might stop you making a complete fool of yourself

            https://www.kwese.com/news/949875/america’s-cup-f1-water

            • McFlock 11.1.1.1.1.1
              1 February 2018 at 4:07 pm

              So to support your F1 comparison, you link to a TV channel’s marketing page for the AC. Not only that, the marketing blurb you linked to explicitly states that AS has more in common with flying than actual sailing, so your “120 affiliated yacht clubs” line is less relevant than “46 Aero clubs in NZ”.

              But then planes are also pricey things, too, so there’s that in common as well…

              • Naki man …
                1 February 2018 at 5:50 pm

                “So to support your F1 comparison, you link to a TV channel’s marketing page ”

                Its not my F1 comparision, Here is another link for your education.
                I did say it “might” stop you making a fool of yourself

                http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2017/05/05/fast-furious-unashamedly-commercial-years-americas-cup-f1-water/

                Only you could decribe this as a”moderately boring task”

                • McFlock …
                  1 February 2018 at 5:57 pm

                  Well, me and anyone who doesn’t watch it.

                  But how does your F1 (because you brought it in here, even if it’s a term invented by an AC marketing firm) comparison negate the fact that it’s primarily a rich person’s event?

                  A DIY/hardware store sponsors rugby competitions.
                  A designer luggage firm sponsors the AC precursor.

                  Says it all, really.

                  • Naki man …
                    1 February 2018 at 6:33 pm

                    “But how does your F1 (because you brought it in here, even if it’s a term invented by an AC marketing firm) comparison negate the fact that it’s primarily a rich person’s event”

                    Its not a rich persons event.
                    Some professional sports people are well paid, that is not a reason not to watch football, tennis, golf, rugby, cricket etc
                    Plenty of sports people are paid shit loads more than these sailors.

                    • McFlock …
                      1 February 2018 at 6:35 pm

                      And yet the spectators buy louis vuitton, not hammers…

                    • McFlock …
                      1 February 2018 at 6:38 pm

                      Hey, I’ve got an afternoon free next weekend, do you want to take your carbon-fibre racing catamaran out for a kick around the park?

    • savenz 11.2
      1 February 2018 at 4:09 pm

      @Naki Man If so many are so interested in America’s cup, get them to get their hands in their pockets and pay for the venue build rather than ratepayers and taxpayers. Nope not happening. Thought so. User pays seems so arbitrary in NZ.

      • savenz 11.2.1
        1 February 2018 at 4:23 pm

        And also maybe the America’s cup fans can fund the ongoing maintenance cost of the project which will be unknown due to climate change.

        Most Aucklander’s would like our council to focus on daily issues facing Aucklanders, like constant road works, construction, detours and chaos and the constant resource constants ready to decimate a place near you so that someone can make a $$.

        But nope, it’s all about looking good for other people for one off televised events and support offshore big business like SkyCity, and then back handedly give over assets to COO’s or the like, which have been somehow created to be the worst of both worlds, being funded by ratepayers and having no responsibility to ratepayers.

  12. Muttonbird 12
    1 February 2018 at 1:30 pm

    Here’s another area in which information collected is woefully inadequate.

    The effect Airbnb is having on our rental stock.

    I’m not talking about the spare room or even the granny flat Airbnbs, but the apartments and three bedroom houses removed from the rental market because owners of these secondary properties find being amateur hoteliers more attractive than being amateur landlords.

    8000 Airbnb properties were listed in Auckland over the summer. That’s a huge amount of rental property not available long term. Same goes for other areas where there is a housing crisis, Queenstown and Taupo.

    The issue I have, like the lack of information about foreign resident house buyers highlighted by Phil Twyford, there is absolutely no information about how much Airbnb is damaging the rental market in NZ. We hear the rental listings are down 50% from last year alone but absolutely no questions nor inquiry as to why. It’s not house sales because volumes are down and first home buyers are locked out.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/101061077/taupo-rental-market-tight-but-exairbnb-homes-joining-market-might-offer-hope

    • Antoine 12.1
      1 February 2018 at 2:12 pm

      If you don’t like it, don’t put your place on AirBNB.

      A.

      • weka 12.1.1
        1 February 2018 at 2:36 pm

        Good grief Antoine, did you read what MB said, or you just have no argument with it? Like has nothing to do with, it’s a housing crisis.

        • Antoine 12.1.1.1
          2 February 2018 at 1:11 am

          We’ll never see eye to eye on this

          • weka 12.1.1.1.1
            2 February 2018 at 2:21 pm

            on what? What MB was talking about? Or your interpretation? If you’re going to drop stupid comments when someone has raised a perfectly valid political issue, then expect to be called on it.

      • Muttonbird 12.1.2
        1 February 2018 at 2:37 pm

        I don’t own a rental property.

        Your smug answer is why I dislike the right wing so much. The world literally starts and finishes with themselves, and no regard is shown for anyone else.

        NZ can’t afford empty houses. Airbnb generates them.

    • Ad 12.2
      1 February 2018 at 2:26 pm

      Queenstown-Lakes is strongly regulating them for that reason in new District Plan.

      • Muttonbird 12.2.1
        1 February 2018 at 2:35 pm

        I haven’t seen the details but the initial impression I got was that that move was more about protecting the hotel sector rather than the rental market.

        • weka 12.2.1.1
          1 February 2018 at 2:37 pm

          Yeah, it’s more half arsed than strongly regulating. Trying to cover all their bases, but protecting renters is being compromised.

          oh, and income generation for the council will be a factor too.

        • Ad 12.2.1.2
          1 February 2018 at 2:50 pm

          The hotels are definitely a political factor in Queenstown-Lakes politics, so I don’t doubt that’s a factor.

          But it is also seeking to ensure more rental stock is focused on longer-term stays rather than very short term.

          To couch it in commercial terms, if hotel staff have nowhere to live with good medium term secutiry, hotels can’t get the staff for their rosters.

          • Muttonbird 12.2.1.2.1
            1 February 2018 at 3:02 pm

            It’d be interesting to know what the average Airbnb stay is in NZ, and region by region. All essential data for a country struggling with housing but like offshore purchase data, seemingly suppressed.

        • Graeme 12.2.1.3
          1 February 2018 at 2:53 pm

          The commercial accomodation sector here seems ambivalent about short term rentals from a competition perspective. But they are being fucked over as hard as prospective tenants by the properties being removed from the rental pool.

          It’s their staff that can’t find accomodation because of Airbnb houses and appartments. The lack of rental properties affects all sectors, but hospo has less scope to pass the cost on to customers. Tradies and the like just pass it on or think they can absorb it.

    • Ed 12.3
      1 February 2018 at 5:22 pm

      Kick Air B’n’B out of the country.

      • Muttonbird 12.3.1
        1 February 2018 at 5:31 pm

        I’d agree but I guess you still need to let these operations run for the sake of tourists wanting some choice and for people wanting to let their place for a week when they are away, or for people who have a spare room or granny flat which is suitable for short stays.

        The problem is when houses owned by amateur landlords needed for medium to long term rentals are taken out of the market. They need the shit regulated out of them so they think twice about being hoteliers.

        • Graeme 12.3.1.1
          1 February 2018 at 6:09 pm

          It’s a worldwide problem, every tourist town in the world is grappling with the AirBnB effect. This was in Outside last July, you could change the names and it’s Queenstown, Wanaka or Taupo https://www.outsideonline.com/2198726/did-airbnb-kill-mountain-town

          Solutions, well the new rules in Queenstown will pretty much prohibit whole property / unit short term rentals in residential areas. Might be a few that would get a non-complying consent, but very few. Letting the spare room won’t be affected but that doesn’t seem to be a problem. There’s a couple of proposals for high density worker’s accomodation, one seems to be go http://www.newground.co.nz/remarkables-park-apartments/ . There’s proposals for the same sort of thing in Gorge Road including the old HIgh School. They are coming rather late in the cycle so might not happen, or struggle and end up as something else, but there’s plenty of other developments with that potential outcome around here.

          The last worker accomodation complex built here followed similar timing last cycle. 2nd mouse got the cheese with that one.

  13. veutoviper 13
    1 February 2018 at 1:42 pm

    A ballot for four Member’s Bills was held this morning. One of the bills drawn from the biscuit tin was:

    Psychoactive Substances (Increasing Penalty for Supply and Distribution) Amendment Bill: Simeon Brown (N) *

    – This bill amends the Psychoactive Substances Act 2013 to increase the penalty for selling or supplying psychoactive substances that are not approved products in line with the penalties for the supply of Class C drugs under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975.

    Now such substances are not my area of expertise, but possibly in my ignorance it seemed somewhat ironic/cruel that this bill was drawn today, after the failure to get Chloe Swarbrick’s Members bill through first reading last night.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but would this bill, if passed, increase the penalties on green fairies for supplying and distributing medicinal cannabis ?

    * Some background on Mr Brown – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_Brown
    ——————————————————————————————————————

    The other three bills drawn were:

    Employment Relations (Triangular Employment) Amendment Bill : Kieran McAnulty (L)

    – This bill would ensure that employees employed by one employer, but working under the control and direction of another business or organisation, are not deprived of the right to coverage of a collective agreement covering the work being performed for that other business or organisation, and ensure that such employees may join the other business or organisation that is party to any personal grievance action.

    Crimes (Offence of Blasphemous Libel) Amendment Bill :Angie Warren-Clark (L)

    – This bill amends the Crimes Act 1961 to repeal section 123, removing the offence of blasphemous libel from New Zealand statute.

    Accident Compensation (Recent Migrants and Returning New Zealanders) Amendment Bill : Melissa Lee (N)
    – This bill amends the Accident Compensation Act to ensure that migrants and returning New Zealanders who are not eligible for superannuation at the qualification age remain eligible for weekly compensation.

  14. Antoine 14
    1 February 2018 at 2:13 pm

    Some big ol’ waves in Nelson

    A.

    • weka 14.1
      1 February 2018 at 3:36 pm

      State of Emergency just declared in Dunedin due to flooding.

      Wildfire near Chch (Governor’s Bay Rd) due to very hot and windy conditions.

      Snow in the Southern Alps and on the inland Otago passes.

      Multiple power outages today across the country.

      • weka 14.1.1
        1 February 2018 at 4:00 pm

        Another fire west of Chch.

        6,500 properties in Hokitika may be without power for 2 days.

        • weka 14.1.1.1
          1 February 2018 at 4:05 pm

          FENZ is responding multiple fires around the region. Here is their update on what’s happening.

          Old Tai Tapu Road – Fire is under control, monitoring stage.
          Clark’s & Hudson’s Road, Tai Tapu – Multiple crews and helicopter in attendance.
          Cass Bay – Multiple crews and helicopter in attendance.
          Carter’s Road, Lincoln – reignition of small fire, 1 tanker in attendance.
          Rotherham – reignition of burn off, crews currently responding.
          Weedons Ross Road – Large hedge fire, crews currently responding.
          Newtons Road – Scrub fire, crews currently responding.

          https://www.ccc.govt.nz/news-and-events/newsline/show/2376

          Raising my eyes that the Rotherham one.

  15. Puckish Rogue 15
    1 February 2018 at 3:17 pm

    “Because they the politicians know ,… that if they tried on that fascist shit too hard,… we would take them out the back against the wall , execute them, and go home to have a cup of tea. NZ is more heavily armed than the US per capita.”

    I think you need to have a good lie down

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • WILD KATIPO 15.1
      1 February 2018 at 3:27 pm

      Really ?…

      I think you are showing you dislike harmless comedy as a way to keep these wannbe fascists in line and advocate instead , … what goes on in a large number of countrys today as we speak…

      You’d rather have actual bloodshed in the streets rather than simple humour where no one gets hurt but a few errant wankers who thought they could misuse their elected officialdom as a leverage for self serving own gains learn ( albiet slowly as they are generally slow thinkers ) that no , they cannot force a public to believe their lies ?

      What is it that scares the hell out of powerheads, fascists, liars, frauds and political manipulators about guns?

      And honesty?

      Is it the fact the they need to answer to the public they claim to serve ?

      Or is it the likes of the American Constitution that states that is the public’s right to bear arms against a government that has been deemed to be working against the people in an oppressive way?

      Are you some sort of lilly livered gutless communist , freak boy?

      Dont you believe in a balanced democracy ?

      Hint : people all over the world use guns , – yes guns, – to fight for a democratic election.

      Are you saying that’s wrong you anti democratic freak ?

  16. SPC 16
    1 February 2018 at 7:42 pm

    USA and Oz are the two nations with a majority receiving fluoridated water (near 50% here).

    In 2010, a U.S. study determined that “40.7% of adolescents aged 12–15 had dental fluorosis. In response, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services together with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency reduced the recommended level of fluoride in drinking water to the lowest end of the current range, 0.7 milligrams per liter of water (mg/L), from the previous recommended maximum of 0.7 to 1.2 mg/L in recognition of the increase in sources of fluoride such as fluoridated toothpastes and mouthwashes (Wikipedia).

    In 2016 in a move to better align with international best practice, Watercare has reduced Auckland’s target fluoride levels from 0.85 parts per million to 0.7ppm.

    Yet the national recommendation remains for .7 to 1.0.

    Most Europeans do not have fluoridation in their water, they take the mass medication argument more seriously – people can get fluoride in their toothpaste, or in tablets (placed in water they clean their teeth with) or in mouthwash.

    The advantage once gained from fluoridating water is nullified by negated by modern dental care practice in areas without fluoridation of water – in the so called risk areas the real problem is sugar in drinks.

    IMO there is a good case for moving our national recommendation to reduce fluoridation levels to the 0.5 to 0.7 range. A .7 max, later reduced to .5 over time. So it better reflects what it now is, a support for proper dental care. And in line with that bring in nationwide provision of dental care to the public.

    • Ed 16.1
      1 February 2018 at 7:47 pm

      Sweden, Norway, Austria, Finland, China and more countries have banned fluoride.

      • SPC 16.1.1
        1 February 2018 at 8:04 pm

        We should up our game in terms of both dental care, and access to dentists to follow their lead.

        • Ed 16.1.1.1
          1 February 2018 at 8:05 pm

          Absolutely.
          Let us follow Europe’s example.

          Out of a population of about three-quarters of a billion, under 14 million people (approximately a mere 2%) in Europe receive artificially-fluoridated water. Those people are in the UK (5,797,000), Republic of Ireland (3,250,000), Spain (4,250,000), and Serbia (300,000).

          The first water fluoridation in Europe was in West Germany and Sweden in 1952, bringing fluoridated water to about 42,000 people. By mid-1962, about 1 million Europeans in 18 communities in 11 countries were receiving fluoridated water.

          Many European countries have rejected water fluoridation in general. This includes: Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Northern Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Scotland,Iceland, and Italy. A 2003 survey of over 500 Europeans from 16 countries concluded that “the vast majority of people opposed water fluoridation”.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country

  17. Tanz 17
    2 February 2018 at 12:34 am

    Winnie wins again, with the defeat of Swarbrick’s drug bill. Awesome stuff, and boy, did she throw her toys out of the cot. Why should National grant the Greens any favours? The Greens would not even phone Bill for a chat post electiion. Who was playing politics then? Not to mention, they sold out the Kermedecs for power Ethics not, and Green, not.