Open mike 01/07/2023

99 comments on “Open mike 01/07/2023 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   1 July 2023 at 6:51 am

   Parliamentary staff are underdogs in the hierarchy, so we can understand why members default into treating them accordingly. Useful insight into the social psychology here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132456519/why-its-so-hard-for-staff-to-report-mps-for-inappropriate-or-bullying-behaviour

   Banal knee-jerk assumptions that offensive behaviour didn't happen because no formal complaint eventuated are merely an evasive tactic. The more you do that, the more delusional you become.

   Her report, released in 2019, confirmed a culture of systemic bullying and harassment. Staff reported feeling disposable, and believed if they spoke about their MP’s bad behaviour they could lose their jobs, which had a “chilling effect”.

   Of course bigots will persist in denial regardless of this report. Those with a natural inclination toward bias and discrimination will wallow like pigs in mud.

   Likewise National and Labour will persist in their collusion by pretending that nothing is wrong and/or accusing the other side of exploiting their system as we have seen the last few days. Can't allow public servants the right of free speech: they ain't citizens, they're underdogs! So you get an infestation of sociopaths and pretend it's okay because democracy…
   • Dennis Frank 1.1

     1 July 2023 at 9:27 am

     Got a bit grumpy earlier this morning, eh? Coupla years since I last checked out Kiwiblog so I felt curious about how they were engaging the controversy.

     Not as rabid as I expected – nowhere near. Luxie's underwhelming effect seems to have cooled that subculture considerably.

     A Gaul named Vercengetorix posted this:

     Public servants will react badly to two behaviours:

     1. Being shouted at and abused, temper tantrums, and throwing objects at the wall.

     2. Being blamed for failures of the Minister or of a policy. Failures that they could not have prevented because the policy is flawed, stupid, or broken.
     • Ad 1.1.1

       1 July 2023 at 9:38 am

       Was impressive to see Martyn Bradbury post this morning that bullying in the Parliamentary workplace should be encouraged against bureaucrats. He’ll never get close to understanding being bullied.

       Labour has brought this on themselves with a run of exceptionally poor discipline, firings, resignations, corruption, unexpected leadership changes, and poor media handling with it.

       Sepuloni keeps reporting that caucus are deeply supportive of each other and the internal mood is great. This is not connecting with the electorate.

       Labour are not functioning like a government that wants to be there.

       We are exceptionally lucky with Luxon's mediocrity, but there will come a point in the next 15 weeks where mediocrity is preferred to instability, poor policy execution, and quite average economic management.
       • Dennis Frank 1.1.1.1

         1 July 2023 at 10:02 am

         It looks like being a close-run thing. I'm not getting any sense of zeitgeist yet. I felt wryly appreciative of Bomber's rant due to usually being allergic to bureaucrats myself – but I agree his empathy deficit is showing.
       • AB 1.1.1.2

         1 July 2023 at 2:42 pm

         We are exceptionally lucky with Luxon's mediocrity, but there will come a point in the next 15 weeks where mediocrity is preferred to instability

         Yes – in fact National's mouthpieces are already running this line. Such as Hooton tacitly acknowledging Hipkins' superiority but implying that it comes with too many downsides and voters will just have to accept voting for the guy (Luxon) who is less impressive. This approach tries to de-fang the Hipkins versus Luxon comparison which Luxon will always lose. Hooton is a good tactician. a pure Machiavell.
         • Incognito 1.1.1.2.1

           1 July 2023 at 3:27 pm

           There are quite a few factors that determine the outcome of the GE. For example,

           1) Popularity of the Party Leader
           2) Popularity of the Party Team as a whole
           3) Popularity of particular Policies on so-called key issues (sometimes wedge issues)
           4) Popularity of the Policy Portfolio as a whole

           We know that Luxon loses to Hipkins in terms of popularity (#1) and this won’t change, I believe.
           • Phillip ure 1.1.1.2.1.1

             2 July 2023 at 12:39 pm

             You left out support for the greens and the maori party…as important 'factors'..
     • Shanreagh 1.1.2

       1 July 2023 at 11:20 am

       1. Being shouted at and abused, temper tantrums, and throwing objects at the wall.

       2. Being blamed for failures of the Minister or of a policy. Failures that they could not have prevented because the policy is flawed, stupid, or broken.

       Agree with this.

       Also add a third

       3 being accused of being partisan or working for the opposition for the mere fact that they were working in the PS when another govternment was in power. Some MPs/Ministers seem to believe that we have something like the US system. We don't. The PS I worked for gave the same best service, free and frank to every Minister they worked with.
     • Louis 1.1.3

       1 July 2023 at 1:23 pm

       "1. Being shouted at and abused, temper tantrums, and throwing objects at the wall.

       2. Being blamed for failures of the Minister or of a policy. Failures that they could not have prevented because the policy is flawed, stupid, or broken"

       There is no evidence of that in regard to Kiri Allan.
       • Shanreagh 1.1.3.1

         1 July 2023 at 5:35 pm

         I understand your wish to be supportive of Kiri Allan but this is what Dennis F said

         Parliamentary staff are underdogs in the hierarchy, so we can understand why members default into treating them accordingly.

         I think the office was less than happy and the relations Minister/staff may have had something to do with this. As I've said several times now not everyone is a staff manager. Some ministers I knew of recognised this and got the very best Office Manager they could or put a recognised HR person into the office to cover the lack.
         • Louis 1.1.3.1.1

           2 July 2023 at 12:09 pm

           As I said, there is no proof at this point in time that Kiri Allan treated her staff poorly.
   • Anne 1.2

     1 July 2023 at 11:12 am

     I read your link Dennis and it came across to me like a good example of the Public Service I experienced some 30 years ago. 🙂

     The bullying invariably came from middle management. Some were vindictive enough to plant 'evidence' of incompetency on the hapless victim. No holds were barred. If you dared to make a formal complaint as I did, you ended up batting away false accusations you could have proven as such… if only you had been allowed. Suddenly you have moved from being the hapless victim to becoming the guilty party.

     Fortunately for me the truth did eventually emerge (after I had resigned from the Service) and the person responsible was sacked. I never received any acknowledgment or apology from the department in question.

     I'm not suggesting the above in any way relates to the Allan matter (because I don't think it does) except to point out… it works both ways.
   • Shanreagh 1.3

     1 July 2023 at 11:14 am

     Thank you Dennis. Things do go awry in workplaces sometimes. Parliament is no exception though I was fortunate that it didn't happen to me. Good ministers and good Office manager/Senior private secretary. We were not sent over in our 20s as the media keep saying now. That would have hardly been time to get to know our departments. 30s-40s was more usual. If departments are sending inexperienced staff over then perhaps this needs looking at.

     Some Ministers have no staff management experience and lack the perceptiveness to acknowledge this, ie don't know what they don't know.

     Banal knee-jerk assumptions that offensive behaviour didn't happen because no formal complaint eventuated are merely an evasive tactic. The more you do that, the more delusional you become.

     In those days you just needed to go to Bellamys on a Thursday night to meet other secs to know that others had it hard with inexperienced Ministers and office managers. Many would ask to go back to their depts or make careful enquiries with Ministerial Services and long termers were often reshuffled at Cabinet reshuffles and found a good boss. Or moved to another office if one of their staff resigned.

     And having worked there the difference between the perception of a person as an MP or Cabinet Minister and their ability as a staff manager is often stark on the good and bad sides. Some Ministers were great at staff management though not known for this in the rough & tumble of parliamentary life.
2. Dennis Frank 2

   1 July 2023 at 7:07 am

   South Georgia is the largest rat-free island in the world. It's part of the UK, way down in the South Atlantic ocean. The population of 16 tough buggers endure the bleak winter, and in summer the population doubles.

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Georgia

   The BBC reports on our predator-free dream strategy:

   In the 20th Century the most visible pests, and the targets of major culls, were large herbivores such as deer and goats. But from the 2000s, wildlife enthusiasts were able to show what small mammals were up to at night.

   Images of rats pouncing on eggs and chicks were widely shared. "That footage was galvanising," Russell says. An ecologist at the time reckoned that New Zealand was losing 26m birds a year to predators.

   In 2011 a celebrity physicist, Sir Paul Callaghan, popularised the dream of a predator-free country. Russell and other young conservationists argued that it could be done, given sufficient investment and mobilisation.

   Predator Free 2050 Ltd, a public body, was set up to channel government and private money into local projects to test eradication strategies.
   • Ad 2.1

     1 July 2023 at 9:45 am

     The Stewart Island one is on its way. Shoutout to the many hundreds of good people who are working on this in their own groups.

     https://www.predatorfreerakiura.org.nz/current-initiatives/
     • Bearded Git 2.1.1

       1 July 2023 at 10:03 am

       Thanks for that link Ad-excellent.

       I've said before on TS that anybody who really wants predator free NZ should get some traps on their property.

       After Rakiura I would like to see most of Fiordland predator free fenced with high tech trapping at points where fencing wont work i.e. across water
   • Hunter Thompson II 2.2

     1 July 2023 at 10:14 am

     In all the coverage over the PM's visit to China, I have yet to see our Minister of Foreign Affairs mentioned.

     The visit directly concerns her portfolio but she has been kept well out of sight.

     Anyone know why?
     • Ad 2.2.1

       1 July 2023 at 11:12 am

       She didn't go.

       Not hard to figure.
       • Louis 2.2.1.1

         1 July 2023 at 1:33 pm

         "Mahuta and Defence Minister Andrew Little were set to meet with their Australian counterparts this week, but that visit was postponed because it would coincide with Hipkins’ visit to China" See link @2.2.2
       • Jester 2.2.1.2

         1 July 2023 at 4:20 pm

         But why didn't she go as she is the minister of foreign affairs so you would think she should be there, and she did go last time?
     • Louis 2.2.2

       1 July 2023 at 1:32 pm

       Minister Mahuta was in the house this week.

       "Mahuta and Defence Minister Andrew Little were set to meet with their Australian counterparts this week, but that visit was postponed because it would coincide with Hipkins’ visit to China"

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/new-zealand-setting-a-good-example-to-australia-chinese-state-media/QGCURT5YYRAXBBBL75G5PE2KKI/
     • Phillip ure 2.2.3

       2 July 2023 at 12:45 pm

       @ h thompson..

       Ms. Mahuta did all the heavy lifting vis a vis china…in her meeting with her chinese counterpart..they covered all the tricky subjects..

       Leaving hipkins and xi able to just holds hands and smile for the camera..

       That's what ms mahuta was doing…
3. Ad 3

   1 July 2023 at 9:54 am

   Big congratulations to Auckland Transport's pt operations team for enabling the full rollout of the huge new public transport subsidies for everyone under 25 with a HOP card. Travel is now either free or half price.

   The HOP card may well be old tech but it's left most other regions scrambling.

   And of course big thanks to the Minister of Finance for this solid budget initiative. He's not likely to get much thanks today otherwise with the fuel tax subsidy coming off.
   • Bearded Git 3.1

     1 July 2023 at 10:05 am

     Brilliant. Now if only a bullet-proof light rail contract could be signed before the election.
     • bwaghorn 3.1.1

       1 July 2023 at 10:21 am

       More chance of nz cracking nuclear fusion.
4. tWiggle 4

   1 July 2023 at 11:05 am

   the spinoff asks what is the effect of van Velden campaigning in the seat of Tāmaki against National's Simon O'Connor?

   I wonder if the Nats will rethink their cozy arrangement with Seymour in Epsom?
5. The Chairman 5

   1 July 2023 at 11:06 am

   Is Government return from power companies a conflict that prevents them from genuinely providing alternative and far cheaper energy sources to the masses?
   • Ad 5.1

     1 July 2023 at 11:10 am

     You have a whole series of legislation, regulation, and regulators to wend through to answer that.

     Maybe slightly potentially a point if we still owner 100% of the big generators. But we don't.

     Hopefully NZLabour is watching the potential state takeover of Thames Water. That will be a thing.
     • The Chairman 5.1.1

       1 July 2023 at 11:22 am

       While the Government no longer own a 100%, they are still the majority stake holder.

       And a loss of that annual income would be significant.

       Do you think this conflict is preventing urgent widescale adoption of products such as these below.
       • weka 5.1.1.1

         1 July 2023 at 11:38 am

         are those home generators? Off grid or grid tied?
         • The Chairman 5.1.1.1.1

           1 July 2023 at 12:01 pm

           Off the gird.
           • weka 5.1.1.1.1.1

             1 July 2023 at 12:26 pm

             there's def a market for that in NZ. It also doesn't makes sense to convert grid times to off grid though, better to make use of existing infrastructure and feed back excess generation into the grid. The problem we have at the moment is that the commercial imperative of power companies works against that. We should be encouraging people to do home generation (on and off grid), not putting barriers in the way.
       • Ad 5.1.1.2

         1 July 2023 at 11:45 am

         Look they are no longer a Crown entity so there is no capacity to control them other than in very weak Letters of Expectation. Government doesn't appoint anyone to their boards. Government really has little influence over them.

         Whether what they charge is reasonable is set in complex mechanisms by the Electricity Authority.

         https://www.ea.govt.nz/

         Small scale generator grids in New Zealand are mostly killed off by locals in the RMA process. Not by any remaining government shareholding.

         If you want proof, go initiate one of your contraptions on your own property and see what happens.

         Solar Zero has had a modicum of success for installed solar without the householder owning it:
         https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/solarzero-is-it-worth-it
         • weka 5.1.1.2.1

           1 July 2023 at 11:52 am

           I took the OP to mean the conflict of interest prevents the government from restructuring (rather than controlling prices day to day)

           People with grid-tied solar get fucked over by the power companies on pricing, I don't think there is any doubt that the current commercial context works against solar.
           • Descendant Of Smith 5.1.1.2.1.1

             1 July 2023 at 1:19 pm

             Not really.

             We have cheap power generation in NZ through hydro and somehow those that install solar think that power companies should pay them a higher rate for their unrequested higher cost power generation. If you have surplus power invest in batteries to store it.

             It's the same as religious private schools setting up in opposition to secular education and then wanting the state to pay for them or the recent palaver with setting up private birthing units.

             We could of course just put in the two turbines at the Clyde Dam that we planned for but not built.

             https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/13-08-2021/much-loved-hutt-valley-birthing-centre-set-to-close-next-month
             • weka …

               1 July 2023 at 2:51 pm

               grid tied solar is for the public good. It increases our resiliency in a climate crisis. It can be done in a stupid neoliberal way, or it can be done in a way that helps the collective. Atm neoliberalism is winning.

               Batteries are hugely problematic for environmental reasons. Not saying never use them, but it doesn't make sense to do storage like that if one is on grid.
           • Ad 5.1.1.2.1.2

             1 July 2023 at 2:40 pm

             You're a mug or a hermit if you own your own pv solar system.

             Solar Zero will install, maintain, feed you power, take all the depreciation, connect to the grid … and enable you to calculate your savings.

             https://solarzero.co.nz/about-yourself

             Way more use than shelling out dumptrucks of your capital on a rapidly depreciating asset that you actually rely on massively when it goes wrong.
             • weka …

               1 July 2023 at 2:54 pm

               sure. I don't have any particular attachment to how solar gets paid for. I just think it's bizarre that we don't put easily installed power generators on every grid tied new build and retrofit in NZ where there is decent solar gain.

               (solar hot water for that matter too, and obvious passive solar design).

               But instead we keep trying to chase our BAU tail around Big Energy.
               • Ad …

                 1 July 2023 at 3:09 pm

                 What I see the government doing is going for the biggest bangs per energy buck in the removal of carbon.. Typical examples are in the removal of all coal fired milk dryers from the big milk companies and from schools, the funding to shift Glenbrook from coal to electricity smelting, and of course in its own funding for medium-scale solar farms in places like Kaitaia and the Napier-Taupo road. They are all major energy shifts in their own right.

                 The state-sponsored land developments from Kainga Ora have plenty more heat and energy efficiency in them. So they certainly lead the market by actions.

                 The biggest shift in house build energy savings was the one that came in last year for the Building Code with respect to windows and doors. When we did the Tiny House for example we chose to stay on grid but up-spec into Argon gas triple glazing. Nothing about houses is cheap.
                 • weka …

                   1 July 2023 at 4:11 pm

                   All good stuff right. However in terms of climate and ecology, the crises, you get that we have to turn the Titanic all the way so it doesn't hit the iceberg, not just some of the way so that it still hits the iceberg hard enough to sink.

                   Turning in the right direction is a good start, but we are very late in the day now and it needs to be all hands to the pump.

                   arohamai the mixed metaphors.
                 • newsense …

                   3 July 2023 at 3:22 am

                   We talked about this Ad- living in a car elsewhere in Otago because Queenstown is too expensive doesn’t make it a tiny house…
               • joe90 …

                 1 July 2023 at 3:44 pm

                 grid tied new build and retrofit

                 Along with the WTF should we argument, there are significant technical problems associated with integrating SPV into existing distribution systems. One of the most vexing is protecting people and components during equipment malfunctions.

                 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1755008417302405
         • The Chairman 5.1.1.2.2

           1 July 2023 at 11:58 am

           Government really has little influence over them.

           In this instance, it's the return they make (or in this case what they would lose) that raises the potential conflict.

           Government can change the RMA process.
           • Ad 5.1.1.2.2.1

             1 July 2023 at 12:51 pm

             Not sure where you are seeing that as a conflict. Mostly policy decisions are policy decisions because they lose money: otherwise the market would be doing it anyway.

             For some kind of conflict of interest, you would have to show that the Minister of State Owned Enterprises has directed a generator to actively compete against smaller generators.

             If he tried that you would have an uproar from other shareholders, the NZX, the FMA and the business media to deal with.

             Genesis, Mercury and Meridian operate as mixed shareholdings. But they are governed by completely independent Board members to make money as regulated corporates just like any other. The Crown Entities Act 2004 covers most of this.
             • The Chairman …

               1 July 2023 at 2:10 pm

               Not sure where you are seeing that as a conflict.

               Sure. Let me further explain.

               Policy that assisted all homes to become self-sufficient and off the grid would conflict with their ability to generate a return from their stake-holdings.

               Potentially discouraging them from introducing policy as such.

               Additionally, as the more affluent move off the national grid, the less there are to pay for it. Adding to further cost pressures for those that remain on the grid.
               • Ad …

                 1 July 2023 at 2:29 pm

                 "Policy that assisted all homes to become self-sufficient and off the grid would conflict with their ability to generate a return from their stake-holdings."

                 Only if somehow the majority shareholder was able to direct the company not to invest in them. Which it doesn't have the power to do.

                 And just to show that this government can walk and chew gum at the same time, …

                 … this government has set up a $400m Green Investment Fund, and a $27m National New Energy Development Centre, to encourage investment in different kinds of energy production.

                 https://www.nzte.govt.nz/page/renewable-energy

                 Here's a set of their case studies for their investments already underway:

                 https://nzgif.co.nz/case-studies/

                 Going through them will give you some sense of the initiatives already funded and tested and underway, rather than some rando promotional turbine clip.

                 This kind of state has for several decades run energy businesses, and regulated those businesses, formed fresh policy, and owned the monopoly grid that enables those businesses to run, set up investment banks … all about energy, and with no conflicts to speak of at all.
   • Shanreagh 5.2

     1 July 2023 at 11:26 am

     Yes one of the worst of the neo-lib ideas still around.

     Bearing in mind the effect of high energy prices on people with low incomes and the need to have warm houses for health I have always wanted the Govt to have tackled this so that we can drop the shackles of this policy.
     • The Chairman 5.2.1

       1 July 2023 at 11:46 am

       Bearing in mind the effect of high energy prices on people with low incomes and the need to have warm houses for health

       Indeed, Shanreagh. One would think these more efficient products would be a part of the healthier homes policy. The cost of power is outrageous and trending upwards.

       Additionally, they would be more reliant in storms and heavy snowfall when the grid tends to fail.

       I also agree with your sentiment re it being one of the worst of the neo-lib ideas still around.
       • alwyn 5.2.1.1

         1 July 2023 at 1:43 pm

         "trending upwards".

         Don't expect to see any change as long as the misguided attempt to generate more of our power with wind and solar generation continues. There is no effective way to store, cheaply, power generated by wind or solar means.

         Try reading this from Bryan Leyland.

         https://www.nzcpr.com/wind-and-solar-power-need-storage/
         • Bearded Git 5.2.1.1.1

           1 July 2023 at 4:42 pm

           Bryan Leyland is right about renewable energy storage being a major issue, but he is over 80 and so may be a little resistant to fast changing technology.

           For instance China is is investing right now in 50gw of pumped-storage hydro. That is over 100 Clyde dams worth.

           https://www.iea.org/reports/grid-scale-storage

           Other countries, including NZ, are considering this.

           Battery technology development may well make battery renewable energy storage viable in the next 10-20 years. Other people have talked about harnessing the batteries of electric cars as they sit in garages. Cars are parked 95% of the time.

           Techniques to reduce electricity usage (smartmeters etc) are also happening.
           • alwyn 5.2.1.1.1.1

             1 July 2023 at 5:49 pm

             If we had nuclear power generation I could see the point in having pumped storage. These stations can run all the time at high loads and without producing any significant carbon emissions. If you don't need the nuclear power immediately use it to fill a storage lake. At the moment China has about 67GW of nuclear power from 55 stations with the intention of reaching 200GW by 2030.

             Our biggest source of electricity is hydro. Why would be want to run a hydro station, releasing water from a storage reservoir, in order to pump water into another reservoir? Leave it in the lake supplying the station and stop running the generators.
         • Bearded Git 5.2.1.1.2

           1 July 2023 at 4:53 pm

           oh and BTW Alwyn, Brian Leland says;

           "I am seriously sceptical of claims that global warming is man-made, real and dangerous."

           http://www.bryanleyland.co.nz/
           • PsyclingLeft.Always 5.2.1.1.2.1

             1 July 2023 at 5:55 pm

             Brian Leyland…..NZ Climate Denier spokes mouth is still around? Fark his available marbles must be getting less and less by now. (albeit there were not many to begin with)

             I well remember him…and what he and others of the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition did. Slimy creep…s

             https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Salinger#Case_against_NIWA

             https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Climate_Science_Coalition
       • Descendant Of Smith 5.2.1.2

         1 July 2023 at 5:14 pm

         "One would think these more efficient products would be a part of the healthier homes policy."

         Hydro is more efficient.

         Power would be cheaper if we didn't have competing companies each with their own set of management and infrastructure costs, profit being taken out instead of being invested, high salaries to senior management the shift of the cost over the years since deregulation from business (who then get to claim the cost off their income) to home owner and borrowing and therefore increased debt and interest payments in order to pay dividends to shareholders.

         There has only ever been fake competition in the electricity sector and in the instance of power and telecommunications I'm not convinced that so called competition has done anything but rort ordinary consumers.

         https://thestandard.org.nz/english-drained-solid/#comment-603719

         Remember the $546 million that English got one (supposedly government hands off ) power company to borrow $300 million dollars to buy off another power company assets which then got transferred as dividends to the government to make the books look better.

         https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4759899/Genesis-Energy-likely-to-offer-about-7pc-on-300m-offer

         The Government will receive a $521 million special dividend from Meridian Energy thanks to Genesis Energy borrowing money from its bankers to help pay for Meridian's Tekapo assets.

         State-owned Genesis borrowed $546 million from its senior bankers and is in the process of raising $275 million from investors to pay state-owned Meridian $821 million for the Tekapo A and B hydro stations.

         Meridian will pay the Government a special dividend of $521 million at the completion of the sale on June 1.

         That suggests the real value of the Tekapo stations is $300 million but the Government clicked the ticket along the way for $521 million by setting the price for the Tekapo assets and forcing Genesis to pay that price.

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/tekapo-assets-gift-govt-521m/NOVUNCADGFG5BLUFMNB53WCIRU/

         That on top of the purchase of Pike River which no-one with even the basic level of due diligence would have touched. The pretence of hands off while pulling the trigger in these decisions really pisses me off. Nationalise the shit out of them all.

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/pike-river-mine-sold-to-solid-energy/YXTAJ2CGEWAFYEBSDESGQCUDPQ/?c_id=3&objectid=10790914

         The tinkering with solar etc is just a way of you being distracted while the lost cost of hydro is exploited for profit.
       • Shanreagh 5.2.1.3

         1 July 2023 at 6:05 pm

         I also agree with your sentiment re it being one of the worst of the neo-lib ideas still around.

         Actually I have a similar jaundiced view about some elements of 3/5 Waters. This might have a last gasp of the neolibs element to it. For me not having a buffer over which charging for water begins means that for poor people paying for water is just another charge for them to meet on not very much income. It impacts more heavily on them. This concept does not seem to be a given in the 3/5 Waters discussions I saw.

         If there was an average or other form of allowance before charging came in it would catch the lawn waterers and swimming pool fillers and not those on fixed incomes, low incomes or who have a family member who has a disability and may need to wash or clothes wash frequently. .

         These regimes often say help is available via this or that policy administered outside of the water charging regime. To me this is a crock as there never is an exact match btween those affected and those who 'fight' through the barriers to get some sort of funding that may be available to offset the regime. There used to a low tariff example in the electricity charging but this was abolished as it was not fair.

         https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-and-energy/energy-and-natural-resources/energy-consultations-and-reviews/electricity-price/phasing-out-low-fixed-charge-tariff-regulations/#:~:text=Power%20companies%20are%20no%20longer,customers%20a%20low%20fixed%20charge.&text=From%201%20April%202022%2C%20the,day%20on%201%20April%202022.

         It may not have been 'fair' but was the option of extending it or minimising the unfairness rather than abolishing it looked at? If people are low income and were working hard to minimise their energy consumption then this low tariff was useful.
         • Descendant Of Smith 5.2.1.3.1

           1 July 2023 at 7:22 pm

           Disabled people even worse off eg where incontinence means washing sheets on a daily basis. And why should they have to apply and tell some water company person about their household health issues.
           • Shanreagh 5.2.1.3.1.1

             2 July 2023 at 11:43 am

             Yes good point…..applying to some faceless person you is intent on using their checklist to count you out of a concession as well as applying to another agency altogether to convince them that your income won't stretch that far are both degrading and unnecessary. The policies should be fixed much earlier than this. A realistic allowance before charging starts is a start.
   • tWiggle 5.3

     1 July 2023 at 12:26 pm

     Cantabury University is a partner in 7-year grant from MBIE around microgrids and localised energy supply. 'Architecture of the Future Low Carbon, Resilient, Electrical Power System'.. received $13.3million over 7y from MBIE in 2020 to optimise transmission and local storage across the national grid.

     It includes new infrastructure to minimise dc/ac/dc conversion along national energy lines eg Wind power is dc, transmission is ac, while many new home appliances are dc now rather than ac. One element is to develop microgrid systems that manages electricity produced by home-installed solar panels etc.

     So government is doing something, since 2020.
     • The Chairman 5.3.1

       1 July 2023 at 12:50 pm

       I have no doubt they are doing something, but the scale is far from enough and the pace is not urgent.

       The high cost of power adds to the cost of living, with the related poverty it helps generate impacting on health and crime.
       • tWiggle 5.3.1.1

         1 July 2023 at 3:27 pm

         MBIE is funding whole-system redesign there. That is not something to do piecemeal, or overnight, and without the groundwork.
6. Tony Veitch 6

   1 July 2023 at 12:12 pm

   Goldie at his glorious, articulate best. A 2 minute look and laugh!

   https://twitter.com/rugbyintel/status/1674675446959718403
7. The Chairman 7

   1 July 2023 at 12:40 pm

   The Greens have unveiled a new housing policy on The Nation this morning

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2023/07/newshub-nation-exclusive-greens-launch-new-housing-policy-which-would-allow-developers-to-build-higher.html

   It has a lot of merit. But it also has a flaw. Allowing developers to build higher.

   A lot of people don't want higher developments next door to them.

   Body corporates are a major reason people choose to buy houses over apartments.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300162866/review-or-tweak-government-confronts-body-corporate-reform

   And for some, apartments are a living hell.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/latest/124788794/living-hell-apartment-disasters-exposes-stonefields-block-and-calls-on-mbie-to-get-involved-with-wider-problem
   • Incognito 7.1

     1 July 2023 at 12:47 pm

     Oh well, they tried. Maybe better luck next time. No more ‘flaws’!
     • The Chairman 7.1.1

       1 July 2023 at 12:58 pm

       Indeed, they did. Like I said, the plan has a lot of merit. But the flaw is a rather large hurdle.

       Any suggestions on how to overcome it?
     • alwyn 7.1.2

       1 July 2023 at 6:57 pm

       "No more ‘flaws’!"

       Groans in agony. It certainly made me laugh though.
   • Ad 7.2

     1 July 2023 at 12:54 pm

     It's a slightly stronger version of the housing policy that Labour and National signed up to last year, and National has now walked away from.

     I'd be happy to sell out to a developer in Auckland to help this policy – and make a return I can reinvest elsewhere.
     • The Chairman 7.2.1

       1 July 2023 at 1:13 pm

       National walking away makes it an election issue. Creating new uncertainty for potential investors.

       Another issue is, allowing properties to build up tends to increase their value. Adding to the high cost of housing. So while the actual individual apartments may be cheaper, the house down the road that can also be built up upon will also go up in value. Making it more difficult for first home buyers to purchase (that don't want to develop it) while encouraging developers
       • Ad 7.2.1.1

         1 July 2023 at 2:32 pm

         Adding value simply attracts more investors to do the same thing. Which is what you want out of a policy direction.

         All the better if medium and high density suburbs are masterplanned, which is what we can see underway in the rebuilds of Northcote, Mt Roskill, Avondale, Hobsonville, Oranga, Pt England, Mangere, and elsewhere.
         • The Chairman 7.2.1.1.1

           1 July 2023 at 5:05 pm

           Adding value simply attracts more investors to do the same thing

           Leaving less homes available for first homebuyers.
           • Incognito 7.2.1.1.1.1

             1 July 2023 at 5:17 pm

             fewer
       • Incognito 7.2.1.2

         1 July 2023 at 2:52 pm

         Creating new uncertainty for potential investors.

         There’s already plenty of uncertainty, e.g., what will the RBNZ do with the OCR, and a GE generally adds to uncertainty. Investors love some level of uncertainty, which is why they should be called speculators. ( or gamblers).

         Here’s a fine example that was discussed here on TS recently: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/492750/rural-residents-south-of-auckland-angry-at-council-s-flip-flop-on-development

         So, development can increase the value/price of existing properties in the same (zoning) area. This is not specific to building-up developments.

         Question #1 for you: any suggestions on how to overcome it?

         Here’s a scenario for you: new developments in a suburb cause an upshift of property values. This motivates some property owners to put their house on the market. This increases housing stock available on the market, which can have a downward effect on house prices in this area. First-home buyers show interest because of the increased number of houses for sale. This can have an upward shift on selling prices.

         Question #2 for you: what will be the net result be for first-home buyers in the area and why? Hint: differentiate between properties with larger areas of land from smaller ones that cannot be sub-divided or are not eligible for building-up development.
         • The Chairman 7.2.1.2.1

           1 July 2023 at 4:45 pm

           There’s already plenty of uncertainty…

           Indeed. However, this adds to that.

           Investors love some level of uncertainty

           Some do. Although, first home buyers and those worried about what is going to be built around them, perhaps not so much.

           So, development can increase the value/price of existing properties in the same (zoning) area. This is not specific to building-up developments.

           Not necessarily. It is far more complexed than that. Requiring a number of variables to align. From the link you provided, the zoning change was one.

           Increasing allowed height, with no other market/variable changes will tend to lead to an increase in value as it is adding something new to the property that can potentially be directly gained from. Whereas, the same can't automatically be assumed for the value of surrounding homes of a new subdivision

           This motivates some property owners to put their house on the market. This increases housing stock available on the market, which can have a downward effect on house prices in this area.

           Again, it’s more complexed than that. Yes it could motivate more to list, but more listing isn't the only variable one needs to take into account when hoping for downward pressure. If the market is hot, prices can still increase despite more listing. First-home buyers tend show more interest if the increased number of houses for sale has resulted in downward pressure.
           • Incognito 7.2.1.2.1.1

             1 July 2023 at 5:15 pm

             Indeed. However, this adds to that.

             So? National should walk back their walkout? The GG should cancel the GE? Investors should all start playing Russian roulette and learn to truly enjoy it? What is your point?

             Although, first home buyers and those worried about what is going to be built around them, perhaps not so much.

             Nice moving of the goal posts; we were talking about investors. Anyway, as the saying goes, you cannot choose your neighbours. First-home buyers might actually care less about price fluctuations than investors/speculators, as long as they’re not heavily mortgaged. However, the NZ banks have certain rules for this, for some level of protection.

             Not necessarily.

             You missed the meaning of “can increase” and I even put it in italics. I was merely continuing your own line of hypothetical thought that you postulated @ 7.2.1. Essentially, you’re now arguing with and against yourself 😀

             The rest of your argument is basically arguing in perpetuity futility aka going around in circles.

             You forgot to answer the two questions posed to you. Are they too hard?

             I have no idea what your final or actual view is on housing development. Your arguments are all over the place, bogged down by trivia, lack consistency, and even are contradictory.

             Question #3 for you: how many times can one be a first-home buyer? I thought it was similar to losing one’s virginity but I’m no expert in this either.
             • SPC …

               1 July 2023 at 5:38 pm

               are even contradictory or even are contradictory? I checked and found a number of rules, but even so they, more or less, did not apply. Should I ask fewer questions?

               ¯_(ツ) _/¯
               • Incognito …

                 1 July 2023 at 6:08 pm

                 Are even contradictory

                 Ask as many questions as you like; “you will gain nothing if you invest nothing”.

                 Choice!
             • Shanreagh …

               1 July 2023 at 6:18 pm

               I thought it was similar to losing one’s virginity but I’m no expert in this either.

               'Just what are you on about Incognito?' she asked, intrigued.

               No reply needed unless to impart something like the fact that you are a Priest or some other like explanation. Does Roman Catholic celibacy mean not ever having had sexual relations of any sort including the Pres Clinton type?
               • Incognito …

                 1 July 2023 at 6:32 pm

                 Nun’s the word
                 • Shanreagh …

                   1 July 2023 at 7:56 pm

                   Oh darn!
     • Belladonna 7.2.2

       1 July 2023 at 2:51 pm

       But you would you be happy if your neighbour sells out to a developer (who doesn't want your property)?
       • Ad 7.2.2.1

         1 July 2023 at 3:12 pm

         I would be inclined to sell out to the same developer. Perfectly rational market response that also generates greater policy outcomes.
         • Belladonna 7.2.2.1.1

           1 July 2023 at 5:39 pm

           Yes. But, as I pointed out, the developer may not want to buy from you.
           Not all adjacent land makes sense to purchase – from a developer's perspective – certainly not at current market value.

           So, if that were not an option – would you be happy to continue living there with an intensive development next door? Or would you sell out at a significant loss (because few other people would want to live there, either)?
           • Visubversa 7.2.2.1.1.1

             1 July 2023 at 5:52 pm

             It just shows that you should not overcapitalize on a site that is likely to be in an area rezoned for more intensive development – on an arterial road, within 800m of a rail station or another type of transit centre etc. If you build Windsor Castle on 660m2 in such a place you are taking a real risk. Any major investment should be undertaken only with qualified advice and any Planning Consultant who knows about the integration of Land Use and Transit can assist in that matter.
             • Belladonna …

               1 July 2023 at 7:12 pm

               Pretty difficult to make that judgement call – if you bought 20 years ago.
               I certainly couldn't predict the various intensification developments when I bought my house (rather more than 20 years ago) – and certainly couldn't anticipate the various zoning and legislation changes which have happened in the intervening period.
               • Visubversa …

                 1 July 2023 at 9:33 pm

                 Certainly, time changes many things. I live 800m from Eden Park and when I bought here 40 odd years ago the Park had rugby on Saturday afternoons with practice on Wednesday evenings, and cricket during the day in the summer. Now it is one of Auckland's largest entertainment venues with night time activities on a regular basis. However, I am still in a single house zone with a heritage overlay – as I was at the time. If I had bought on New North Road, I would have made different choices.
                 • Belladonna …

                   2 July 2023 at 11:06 am

                   Well, that's what happens when you buy in blue chip leafy suburbs – the wealthy people around you manage to halt development.

                   While people in 'lesser' suburbs have seen the development and intensification rules change significantly over time.
         • The Chairman 7.2.2.1.2

           1 July 2023 at 5:41 pm

           One wonders how many homeowners would sell? And how will that impact on the area?
           • Incognito 7.2.2.1.2.1

             1 July 2023 at 6:12 pm

             I’m as concerned as you are.
             • newsense …

               3 July 2023 at 2:34 am

               Poor people will own property. Some of them are probably experimenting with all kinds of things in KfC car parks. Who knows how old they are!

               All because of density! Density!
   • SPC 7.3

     1 July 2023 at 7:19 pm

     Is not the concept of allowing a third higher build n return for valued design central?

     I presume the issue is over 2 to 3 storey in some areas and 4 to 6 in others – as per the plans (transport spines or planned communities?).

     The interesting thing is the third is not a concept in accord with a three storey city wide build – as per the now cast aside National-Labour agreement.

     And seems to be posing a 2 storey city wide, and 4 storey transport spine regime as an alternative.
8. miravox 8

   1 July 2023 at 4:03 pm

   Free prescriptions for approximately 3 million people using a publicly-funded health service from today. This charge did exactly the opposite to intended – instead of reducing waste caused by people getting prescriptions from their GPs for medications they didn't need it resulted in dispensed medicines, for people who couldn't afford to pay the fee, sitting on pharmacy shelves.

   This is relief for many – especially for people living with chronic diseases)..

   (Note that people who receive prescriptions from private presribers and specialists will still pay a $15 co-payment and the high user limit is still available for them. People prescribed unfunded medicines will also still pay a dispensing fee – so it's not quite a universal reversal of the charge).
9. bwaghorn 9

   1 July 2023 at 5:09 pm

   https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2023/06/26/forget-oil-new-wildcatters-are-drilling-for-limitless-geologic-hydrogen/?sh=78e6ca0961c8

   Who knew?

   Is it something nz should be looking at?
10. adam 10

    1 July 2023 at 5:21 pm

    So the USA under Biden is going total scumbag like the Russians, and supplying Ukraine Cluster ammunition.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/30/cluster-bombs-ukraine/

    So the "good guys" are now using mines, depleted uranium rounds and now cluster ammunition.

    MMMMmmm.

    Anybody supporting this war is jumping through some odd hops at this point.
    • UncookedSelachimorpha 10.1

      1 July 2023 at 11:35 pm

      "Anybody supporting this war "

      You must be calling loud and hard for russia to withdraw then, I assume.
      • adam 10.1.1

        2 July 2023 at 1:29 am

        I've called an end to the war from day one.

        How that happens, I'm quite flexible.

        Did think an independent buffer state might have been the answer, but now can only see genocide in that area if one side gets its way, or a sock puppet if the other.

        The longer this goes on, the grimmer it has got. With both sides now playing the war crimes game. With the usual collection of disabled, women and children get it in the neck, whilst men swing their dicks around.
        • UncookedSelachimorpha 10.1.1.1

          2 July 2023 at 12:55 pm

          "I've called an end to the war from day one"

          But not for russia, the aggressor and initiator of the war, to withdraw?

          You will (and so far have) seen genocide if russia gets its way, not if either side does. Pretending russia and ukraine are equivalent in this (including wrt war crimes)…is what russia would like you to do.
11. tWiggle 11

    1 July 2023 at 8:37 pm

    For those interested, from 8 min on the item below discusses how US financial sanctions against Russia act, and how this pushes a search for alternate trade currency options. Factual, a bit of analysis, and no overt bias.

    Wendover youtube backgrounder on de-dollarisation
12. joe90 12

    1 July 2023 at 9:23 pm

    wow

    I am not angry because the submarine was badly-made. I am angry because I live in a vastly larger pressure vessel being managed and maintained by the exact same people.

    

    https://cohost.org/hystericempress/post/1731218-reflecting-on-it-th
    • weka 12.1

      1 July 2023 at 9:30 pm

      wow is my response too. Spot on.
    • Anne 12.2

      1 July 2023 at 11:12 pm

      OceanGate's underengineered, undercooked, doomed submarine isn't merely a metaphor for the hubris of the wealthy, it is a scale model of the way the wealthy dictate our reality.

      Oh spot on!

      And it looks like we may be going to get our own version of the "wealthy dictating our reality" in a few month's time. Money buys power.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-gets-500000-in-a-large-donation-from-auckland-businessman-warren-lewis-more-than-labour-all-year/JA5KYFCJARETBDUKBIUCVFDNHA/

      Love the photo. Talk about fat cats. 🙂

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