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Open Mike 01/08/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 1st, 2018 - 132 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

132 comments on “Open Mike 01/08/2018 ”

  1. Ed 1

    With climate change now so evident by what we’re seeing in the Northern Hemisphere, it is clear only radical and abrupt action will mitigate devastating effects for complex life on Earth.
    The bacteria must be happy the Earth is run by psychopaths, devout believers in a capitalist system which is devouring the Earth.

    • cleangreen 1.1

      Yes Ed so true;

      But the captians of industry is hard fixed only on profit -profit!!!!

      They aere blindly seeking just more profit while our ‘Rome’ burns as they no care or responsibility for what they do.

      • Kevin 1.1.1

        Tomorrow could be the last day of earths existence and the corporates would still be trying to make that last buck.

        There needs to be major wide sweeping law changes to curb their power and restrict their activities.

        • Gosman

          “There needs to be major wide sweeping law changes to curb their power and restrict their activities.”

          The call from most lefties since forever.

          • McFlock

            Yes. And failure to heed that call has resulted in wildfires in the artic circle, toxic rivers, and so on.

            Soon the repercussions will effect something or someone you do actually care about.

          • Tricledrown

            Since democracy gave 1 vote to
            1 person the Tory agenda is to undermine the power of democracy.
            Gossipboy your part of this cynical undermining.
            But gossipboy you would be nothing if it weren’t for the benefits of the universal vote.

            • Gosman

              Whatever. What is clear is the left haven’t worked out how to change the system dramatically using the levers they have available.

              • McFlock

                What’s clear is that you’d rather focus on the failure of the left to clean up the messes capitalism causes than consider how to stop capitalism causing those problems in the first place.

        • NZJester

          In the US both Republicans and Democrats are trying to do just that by getting money out of politics there by bringing in another amendment to their constitution. As long as the big corporations can legally bribe Lawmakers to ignore the majority of a countries people there can never be a true democracy. Republicans fell for trumps words during his campaign to drain the swamp. Far from draining it, he actually just replaced the mild swamp monsters with their more dangerous versions. Until true democracy is restored in the US we have little hope in NZ of doing much. We can negotiate with the American people for valid change, but we can not negotiate with politicians paid off to ignore the will of the people and ignore those corporations ignoring what rules there are against pollution. If anyone else deliberately ignored rules or safety measures and spilled the sorts of industrial wastes they do on a regular basis stole billions of dollars in money via scams they would be thrown in jail. The heads of corporations however sometimes might throw an underling under a bus or pay a small fine that does not even make a dent in the profits they made from breaking the rules because they have the lawmakers in their pockets to ignore what they are doing.
          At the moment the 3 big superpowers of the US, Russia, and China have to much power and policies being fueled by greedy people.

    • corodale 1.2

      Climate change mitigation money at the UN was billions, what did they do with it all?
      All up in smoke on “Reseach”? I couldn’t find any info that looked accountable.

      Why don’t they put something in the aviation fuel, surely more photochemical smog would reduce the warming? Like that AdBlue stuff, but for cloud seeding.

      Anyone seen any reports on progress with these mitigation technologies? Seems that smog from Chinese industry is the planet’s current saviour, blocking out the heat. Hope they don’t get too clean too fast. Could more dust storms be our lucky escape? answer?

  2. cleangreen 2

    We send our hopes for a good meeting while overseas Winston; –

    Thanks for being a caretaker for Governmment while Jacinda was on leave you did great; – and while away, we hope you keep an eye on National meddling in our new Government poliices, as National are trying to sabotage our political system at present.

    Welcome back to parlament Jacinda, we love the family pictures and the new baby is stunning – wel done mom.

    We will watch Parliament today.

    • Cinny 2.1

      + 100% was just thinking what a stellar job Winston has done over the last six weeks.

      Thanks Winston, all the best for your mission overseas.

      • greywarshark 2.1.1

        Agree Cinny
        Winston very impressive.

        • NZJester

          Winston didn’t even need to bring his A game while filling in. The second string National party front bench just cannot lie as easily as John Key.

    • gsays 2.2

      Hi clean green.
      As a very casual observer of the goings on in Wellington, I have no idea of how and when to watch parliament.

      Any tips?

      • Cinny 2.2.1

        G, you can tune in from 2pm… Question time is live from 2pm to around about 3pm. Sitting days vary, but when Parliament is in session question time runs from Tues-Thursday inclusive. After which there is the general debates etc

        Here is the link for the live stream

        Or tune in via Freeview, channel 31

        Hope that helps 🙂

        Forgot to add, that question time on sitting days re-screens at 6pm.

        And…. if you head to the “In The House” youtube channel you can catch up there… here is the link for that 🙂

        • gsays

          thanks cinny and tony below, i will endeavour to pry myself away from the workshop and tune in.
          i hope i can finish the cape cod chair i am building by then.

        • alwyn

          Question time also repeats at 10pm on sitting days.
          More use if you actually go out to work during the day.

          • ianmac

            The On Demand on the Parliament website is handy as you can just pick the interesting questions to watch.
            On Demand – Questions.

          • Tricledrown

            Alwynger Take your own advice and set up a privately funded charter school that teaches creationism.

            • alwyn

              You really are a total nut job aren’t you?
              I have never proposed such a thing. But you are so stupid that you don’t realise that.
              OK you idiot. Produce evidence that I have ever advocated “creationism” as being sensible.
              Otherwise why don’t you just keep your stupid mouth shut.

      • Channel 31 on Freeview – Question time from 2pm to about 3pm.

        Entertaining stuff!

      • veutoviper 2.2.3

        As well as watching live online, you can also watch all past sessions of Parliament via the Watch/On Demand options on the Parliament website. Here is a rough summary of what is available via the Watch option on the Parliament website I threw together for another purpose recently.

        The main Parliament site link is – https://www.parliament.nz/en

        Choose the Watch option – https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/

        You then have the choice of Live, On Demand, Video or Audio – and that page also provides this link to a Help page for watching and listening:


        The “Live” option allows live watching of Parliament including Question Time and all other sittings of the House. When Parliament TV is not broadcasting live content, it shows information from select committees about submissions on bills, petitions and inquiries – including closing dates.

        The “On Demand” option allows you “access to over 30,000 individual videos of Parliament TV content” – https://www.parliament.nz/en/watch-parliament/ondemand

        There is a generic selection choice of Oral Questions or All. However, The On Demand options were updated earlier this year allowing much better filtering and search choices – Title Search, Subject, Dates (from/to), People (MPs by name including past MPs no longer in the House) and Stage (long list of drop down options).

        The main “Video” Option offers a whole range of informative videos on various Parliamentary procedures – eg how to make submissions, NZ sign language etc – and other related matters. For example, the latest addition is a one hour video “Celebrating 125 years of women’s suffrage”.

        The main “Audio” option allows you listen live to Parliament online and also offers a range of Podcasts on various subjects including “An owners guide for Parliament”. I note that these have not been added to since 2017.

        However, RNZ run regular “In the House” podcasts on what is happening in Parliament which can be found here – http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/the-house

    • ianmac 2.3

      Jacinda is not due today. One said midnight Thursday, another midnight Wednesday.

      • veutoviper 2.3.1

        Peters flies out midnight tonight to Singapore for ASEAN and meeting US Sec of State, Mike Pompeo.

        • veutoviper

          Should have added that JA is apparently staying in Auckland until the weekend then moving into Premier House in Wellington with Clarke and baby over the weekend and staying there for the next two weeks when Parliament is sitting although may be doing some day trips elsewhere over that time. Presumably back to Auckland about 17 Aug for the two week Parliamentary recess over the weeks starting 20 and 27 August.

    • Gosman 2.4

      Yeah, he really stood up for the NZ citizen put in custody by the Israelis. You must be so proud /sarc.

      • Tricledrown 2.4.1

        Gossipboy he was arrested in international waters and tasered.
        Gossipboy you haven’t got any balls your just a minion who is like a tagger hiding behind the bushes Trumpeting reheated Pro Tory BS.
        Nothing original very little truth.

  3. Cinny 3

    Question…. why the sudden interest for national in reducing class sizes, when…. apparently the previous government didn’t gather any data about class size during their nine year tenure ?

    Chris Hipkins yesterday, good work.

    • Incognito 3.1

      I think the answer might be in here:

      Primary teachers and principals will strike on August 15.

      The New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa announced the day-long strike on Wednesday, following an online ballot.

      It’s the first strike in 24 years for educators, a statement from NZEI lead principal negotiator Louise Green said.


      I reckon it is good old wedge politics by National, divide and conquer, and attack the Government when & where it’s vulnerable.

      • Cinny 3.1.1

        Thanks Incognito, makes sense.

        So many messes for our new government to clean up.

    • Kevin 3.2

      Hipkins was all over her. Nice work.

    • ianmac 3.3

      You know those patsy questions that Government MPs are allowed to ask?
      Has Nikki Kaye misunderstood the process? Does the Hon Nikki think she should be asking the patsies to allow Chris a free run to demolish her? (Not that the other Opposition questions are much better – looking at you Simon dear boy.)

    • Craig H 3.4

      That was hilarious, basically turned into a patsy question for the government.

  4. marty mars 4

    Worth noting this –

    Most Māori nurses will miss out on pay rises won by strike action because they don’t work at district health boards.

    Nurses are currently voting on the latest DHB offer – which includes pay rises of between 12.5 and 16 percent.

    Any settlement will only apply to nurses employed by district health boards (DHBs).

    But the New Zealand Nurses Organisation (NZNO) said a majority of Māori nurses won’t see the gains because many are not employed by DHBs.

    NZNO Kaiwhakahaere Kerri Nuku said most Māori nurses work in primary health areas such as Māori health organisations.

    She said funding is different for Māori and iwi health providers, and their nurses earn up to 25 percent less than DHB nurses.

    And many Māori nurses are grappling with lower pay as it is.


    • SaveNZ 4.1

      That is bizarre that they pay Maori/nurses less if they are in primary health and work at Maori health organisations! I thought they all had to be paid the same for experience! That is crazy.

      I also think I saw something that those in ‘aged care’ also on average get paid less, and that is why that industry has such a shortage or nurses as it is already hard to get nurses as it is, without paying them less. Of course we all know how the private sector gets away with paying less for nurses…

      • Bill 4.1.1

        I wonder how much money would be available for wages if the state took aged care away from the profit gouging private sector and provided for it from the public purse?

        I also wonder (have for a long while) what capacity exists for people in aged care facilities to collectively buy their own facilities and provide their own external care requirements via some co-operative arrangement?

        • SaveNZ

          I think there is a real opportunity for fair aged care facilities. Apparently a few doctors (maybe in Nelson) have done this and have retirement homes where the residents actually own them and can sell them without any profiteering under the private models and they actually get the medical care as promised (many of the private developers with retirement villages promise the world and fail to deliver such as providing an in care medical facility or community halls) that were promised when elderly bought.

          What I can’t work out, is why Grey power is not all over this? Most private aged care is a massive property and fees scams.

          Someone was saying it was $7 to wash a sock for example.

          Saying that private enterprise is everywhere, with a mother charged $55 for 1 minute late picking up their child.

          Why worry about regulation of private practise I wonder?

        • veutoviper

          This case of disgusting private sector price gouging was reported on TVNZ just in the last day or so.


        • Draco T Bastard

          I wonder how much money would be available for wages if the state took aged care away from the profit gouging private sector and provided for it from the public purse?

          Somewhere between 7% and 10% of that spent by the government on the private providers.

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.2

      I’d heard about this anomaly a few years back and I had assumed it had be sorted.

      In that Natrad piece David Clark is quoted…”Health Minister David Clark said nurses in primary health or iwi providers are usually employed by private employers.

      While he said he values their work, their pay is not negotiated with the government and the settlement would not be extended to them.”

      …as if these providers are not funded through the DHBs….

      which according to this….https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/services-and-support/health-care-services/maori-health-provider-directory …they are.

      Now…if the funding package from the DHB to the iwi provider does not allow for the Maori nurses to be on the same payrate as mainstream pubic health/district health nurses then whoever is negotiating the contracts with the DHB or the Ministry of Health need to pull their finger out and do their job. refuse to sign contracts unless equal pay for nurses is part of the package.

      It is not as if there are not enough Maori Primary Health Providers do form a collective for better contract bargaining.

      and…the funding MUST be provided as …https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/populations/maori-health?mega=Our%20work&title=M%C4%81ori%20health

      ” The Ministry is charged with setting the direction for Māori health and guiding the sector as we work to increase access, achieve equity and improve outcomes for Māori.”

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.3

      There is a collective of iwi healthcare providers and in 2016 they commissioned this report…

      “The Sustainability of
      Very High-Needs
      Primary Care Practices
      in a Capitated Environment”

      ….which may shed some light into the dark places.

  5. Winston Peters in particular, but also Labour, have put their strongly expressed immigration policies from the election campaign on the back burner at least.

    Corrin Dann: You told your supporters you wanted it at ten thousand.

    Winston Peters: Yeah well I lost the argument because I didn’t get enough votes because people like you said it wouldn’t work. Now you say it will.

    It was one of Winston’s most prominent ‘bottom lines’, but he isn’t even bothering to try to hold Labour to their immigration policy.


    • Gabby 5.1

      Good point though petey, wasn’t it.

    • SaveNZ 5.2

      Immigration was one of the few differences between Labour and NZ First and National. Clearly it was an issue for voters – because the coalition won, not National.

      Most of the new migrants themselves don’t want more migrants until something is done about infrastructure and cost of living and they don’t want cheaper and cheaper people coming in either as it’s reducing their own wages too and creating more competition in business and not in a good way, but a race to the bottom.

      The only people screaming for more immigration is neoliberal Wellington economists, immigration lawyers and go betweens and bad businesses who don’t pay market wages and conditions (look at what the labour inspector is finding new cases of underpaying near daily and it’s the migrant anti exploitation group championing more inspectors) and our first human trafficking cases!

      Way to go, NZ! Fuck over workers, make everyone their own poorly performing ‘business or dependant contractors’ with broken down vehicles, counterfeit and stolen goods being resold and more corner shops with alcohol, cigarettes and synthetic drugs… as well as ensuring after paying for expenses migrant workers earn less than they would in their own countries, Kiwis are leaving key industries in disgust or not going in there in the first place due to the mess and uncertainty.

      Lazy non functional immigration policy and the link to paid education tertiary providers, (often with poor quality degrees) is also driving up rents and housing and put strain on all the infrastructure like hospitals, transport and schools. Due to the poor accounting practices of neoliberals they can’t see that the taxpayers are worse off with these constant scams in many ways not just money but reputation.

      They also pay so little in taxes with such poor wages that effectively it’s another subsidy from taxpayers to employers. No wonder neoliberals love immigration!

      10 years ago I thought immigration was a good thing. Under the current neoliberal version of immigration, I am disgusted how it is being used to create more and more profit for the 1% and exploiters and wreck the environment and create poor quality and unsustainable development with massive bills for the future residents.

    • Tricledrown 5.3

      Pete George he is in a coalition and he knows being pragmatic wins votes.
      PG trying for what being divisive after all your talk about being United and being boringly pragmatic.

  6. OnceWasTim 6

    Did anyone else come across Parliamentary Debates last night whilst flicking through broadcast TV channels looking for something worthwhile to watch?

    I was thinking maybe its time for Bennett or Collins to take some of the new ‘bucks’ under their wing and issue some motherly type guidelines. Remind them that when one of your own is on their feet delivering a speech, the camera is on you too if you’re seated behind. Expectations are for the mandatory ‘NOD’ and fake smile along with the occasional “hear hear!”. Picking your nose, and doing neck and embouchure exercises, along with a thoroughly bored look on your face doesn’t fit with the authoritative image the party wishes to portray.

    • Puckish Rogue 6.1

      Yeah things like that really make me despair, i mean how hard is it to just simply assume that the camera is on you always and to act accordingly

      • Robert Guyton 6.1.1

        Paula Bennet’s always acutely aware when she’s “in shot”, so much so that she behaves manically, grimacing, eye-popping, giving great horse-laughs, twisting herself into a pretzel of indignation at anything a Government minister might say or bows of adoration at every squeak from Simon…

        • OnceWasTim

          Yep. The perfect MP to provide some training in the art of media synthetics. There’s probably a future earn in it for her when the knives come out.

        • Puckish Rogue

          I’d have thought media training would have covered how not to look like a twat on camera, I guess not

        • JanM

          She always looks to me as though she’s on some sort of drug!

          • greywarshark

            Botox I reckon. Face massage and body shape management plus dress planning. All important stuff for Gnashional fillies in the race to power and prestige, jumping high over the fallen bodies of contenders with just the slightest cut from a high-heeled hoof.

            • Puckish Rogue

              “Face massage and body shape management plus dress planning”

              Do you really want to go down this road? Is this something only National do or would you like some examples of Labour politicians doing this exact same thing?

              Why don’t we try keeping it on the what they do and not what they look like instead

              • OnceWasTim

                Indeed @PR. We don’t want to give her an excuse to cry victimhood.
                Better to create some transformational muppets to mount on the wall across the road in Backbenches.
                Do you know if she’s still capable of climbing a ladder or does she have an enterage of coolies to do that for her?

                • Puckish Rogue

                  Its not about her crying victimhood its about the idea that its ok to target a female politician, any female politician, over her looks

                  It suggests that a part of a females worth, or power, is based on her physical attributes

                  It says that unless a women reaches some level of physical attractiveness (based on who knows what) her views, her politics, are worth less than others

                  • KJT

                    I thought she was an alien lizard, just like the rest of the National caucus.
                    Certainly any trace of human empathy and concern, has been long removed.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      As I say if theres a politician you don’t like or agree with because of their policies or actions then focus on that, its all good

                    • KJT

                      Like your lots constant comments about Helen Clark‘s appearance and sexuality. Eh!

                      Personally I think there is plenty to condemn Bennett, and we should not be lowering ourselves to the same level as the right wing. Who never gave a shit when Helen Clark or Jacinda Adern was the target.

                      Bennett has enough to justify, with her continued child abuse, of the hundreds of thousands of children, whose lives they blighted.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      ‘Like your lots constant comments about Helen Clarkes appearance and sexuality. Eh!’

                      They were wrong to do so then and they’re wrong to do so now. However, at some point, someone has to say enough is enough otherwise the cycle keeps on keeping on.

                      ‘Personally I think there is plenty to condemn Bennett, and we should not be lowering ourselves to the same level as the right wing. Who never gave a shit when Helen Clark or Jacinda Adern was the target.’

                      The right should also not lower themselves to the level of the left wing either, we (all of us) should try to be better

                    • KJT

                      I agree there.

                  • OnceWasTim

                    well you know me @PR. I’m an equal opportunity targeter. I base my targeting on merit.
                    But right now darling, I’m wondering whether the ‘sardonically witted’ Scott Eady’s “The Philanthropist’s Stone, (2015 ) is actually a pisstake – especially after the last gNAT Party Conference I saw at MFC where little gNitz were fawning all over it.
                    I’m waiting for him to come out and confess it’s actually an “Ode to the National Party”. A new re-imaged gNat Blue Column, upon which we mount a polished golf leaf turd, with a few glitter candles randomly poked in the substance.

              • McFlock

                I agree.

            • JanM

              Yes, botox for sure – but that constant leer looks manic to me

          • bwaghorn

            She reminds me of the generals that stand next to north Korean kim. Hoping to get noticed as the most loyal lacky in the line up . And fearing getting the chop if caught not being fervent enough.

            • joe90

              And fearing getting the chop if caught not being fervent enough.

              Our Paula would clap and clap and clap…..

              For three minutes, four minutes, five minutes, the ‘stormy applause, rising to an ovation’ continued. But palms were getting sore and raised arms werealready aching. And the older people were panting from exhaustion. It was becoming insufferably silly even to those who really adored Stalin. However, who would dare be the first to stop?

              – The Gulag Archipelago

              • greywarshark

                What an apt quote. You take the cake – the biggest piece for you.

              • bwaghorn

                Sounds like book I should keep an eye out for . Although I need no more proof of my own species idiocy.

          • OnceWasTim

            btw, I reckon she misread the dose.

            But you know, she’s happy and comfy, so no harm done eh?
            No need for an intervention or a ‘wraparound’ service just yet

            • Anne

              Thanks for the laugh OWT. “Wraparound.”

              Whenever Paula Benefit used that word (and it was frequently) I had a mental picture of her holding up a large bolt of material and running round and round her victims wrapping them up so tight they couldn’t move.

        • Anne

          She overdoes it doesn’t she Robert. 🙂

          Annette King when she was in the role of deputy leader was much smarter than Paula. Her witticisms flung across the chamber whenever the cameras were on her were not only funny… they used to rile her opponents to the point of sour complaints to the Speaker which he rarely upheld. Occasionally she was made to “withdraw and apologise” which she would carry out with decorum and aplomb (and a lovely smile) and that served to rile them further.

        • marty mars

          Fighting for her political life now that Simon has chucked her under the benefit bus.

  7. gsays 7

    Had to have a chuckle at the attitude of some Auckland air bnb operators.
    In a council ‘amnesty’ some hosts put their hands up and were landed with big bills.

    “However, Mr Pitch said it was unfair that he should have to pay while others did not”

    Oh the irony.
    It was fine when he didn’t pay fees that conventional accommodation providers had to.


    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 7.1

      bit scummy of the council to announce an amnesty then fine people for being honest.
      Still, Phil Goff has form for being in power the retrospectively changing things.

      • gsays 7.1.1

        Hi tuppence shrewsbury, from what I have read, there is talk of rates and tax.

        There is no mention of fines.

        Do you know of otherwise, or are you making things up?

    • SaveNZ 7.2

      Are they back dating the new tourist taxes to the conventional hotel providers too for years, or are they just going to hit the small operators with retrospective taxes. Um think I know the answer…. pick on the small people who probably do that so they can pay their rates in the first place! Thats that new ‘sharing economy’ the neoliberals love so much… extra sharing for big players by the look of it.

      • gsays 7.2.1

        Hi savenz, my understanding is that these fees are to bring the smaller operators into line with the conventional providers, i.e.:the ‘big player’s’ have already paid their ‘dues’.

        I do agree greed is at the root of most of the problems we face as a society.

        • SaveNZ

          I did a few homestay type activity in Auckland a few years ago, very hard work and actually risky as you don’t really get to pre check the guests. I did it to get some extra money at the time because my body corp and expenses was going through the roof, eventually I sold up though.

          My guess is a lot of these people might be doing it quite casually to get a bit of extra money so they can pay bills just to keep their house or apartment, not as some sort of extravagant or commercial venture.

          There is no way that somebody who might have to pay $10,000 extra in rates would keep going in my view as the amount you would have to charge is huge.

          The rental people charge much more for short stay about 20% in fees, you have new booking fees from the on line sites that were not there a few years ago and then high cleaning and laundry costs as well as repairs. There is not a lot of profit and was employing people…

          Maybe they should pay extra to the council but not ridiculous amounts more like a charge per guest stay like the hotels, but it should not be retrospective just like the hotel operators are not having to pay retrospectively.

          Oh well, those Auckland housing and accomodation shortages, look like they might be getting worse.

          • gsays

            hey clearly you have far more experience than me in all this.

            it is an example of a lumbering bureaucracy trying to keep up and control new business models.

            i feel you are right that most operators are looking for a supplementary income as opposed to building an empire.

            my point was the squealing nature of ‘it’s not fair’ when they were asked to pay their dues, very steep as they may appear.

      • greywarshark 7.2.2

        dThe fees have suddenly gone up by 100% or something very large and been backdated. If airbnb people are trying to start a new business and sidle through the side of regulations, and that is unfair, it is still unfair to land them with these sudden high costs.

        It is a poke in the eye for the smaller business, the system wants to sequester all the profitable business in NZ, out compete it, out-bureaucratic control it, pay lowering wages and salaries and manipdulate the market supplying our needs, ie produce that can be sold overseas at high prices and charge the same in NZ, wood that we should have for building our own accommodation, houses that we need to live in and so on.

        To look further. It is getting to the position that more and more are working just to manage to live, not to have a ‘living’ that satisfies and fulfils human needs, Most of the advantages of trading are absorbed by a small percent of people here and overseas, many of whom are into private equity, and corporates, that business and social commenters point out are inhuman entities and almost like robotic entities served by humans.

        Just to cheer you up! Now don’t thank me warmly it’s fine pleased to bring some sunshine to your day. Hah. It is a horrible scenario but we need to look at the darkness, those who aren’t hell-bent-on despising open discussion; the so-called conservatives and ‘common-sense’ types who are cowards and complacent. Heroes who will look at Mordor are needed and some are to be found here. You beauts.

        • SaveNZ

          I agree with you greywarshark! But can anybody get it through to a government encapsulated by market lobbyists and neoliberals around them post Natz?

          Labour can’t just keep saying pay more taxes and allowing market forces to drive up every price and only focusing on those who live here!

          Those that try to make a few xtra dollars aka air B& B are targeted, those that don’t try and are on welfare are told off even though worker shortages in many areas from fruit picking to health assistants could be changed so that conditions are there for workers, (do the figures currently and find out they are worse off after paying their expenses to work accomodation, travel, food etc, that is why they don’t do that anymore, not laziness!)

          Now today workers being locked out of a construction site. Why are these firms going under when apparently we are in a construction boom?

          It’s nothing to do with the workers and more to do with the process of construction has changed under Rogernomics for example into low wage trickle down, tenders, more tenders, more legal, more paperwork, less emphasis on actually getting in there, and doing the work with a quality crew that is NOT subcontracted to the cheapest worker.

          • SaveNZ

            Also if someone from the government mentions unemployed working for the dole under minimum wages, for an employer, I will scream!

            Generally the expenses one faces in NZ are above minimum wage levels for a start!

            Then add in costs of temp work of only a few weeks to rural areas like fruit picking, costs of accomodation, keeping existing accomodation going to return to, cost of dole being cut off, food which tends to be more expensive as you move around as your basics are still at home… there’s a reason they used to get people in NZ on orchards and now they don’t!

            The industry body should provide mini vans for a start for travel and pick up, ensure decent accomodation on site (maybe decent caravans that can go between sites) and provide an above wage to compensate for the temp work and mucking around in that industry!

            As well as invest in automation for picking in the future!

            But nope, trafficked workers or those not too good at Maths and can’t work out their expenses vs wages, seems to be the go in NZ for industry to rely on!

            • greywarshark

              You’re onto to it sdvenz – one of the stalwarts on here who comes up with ideas not just moans, sneers, simplistic answers, some form of ism, or just a love of being contentious and defending the comfortable though indefensible.

  8. SaveNZ 8

    So far in Auckland under Rogernomics Phil, rates rises, petrol taxes introduced, tourist taxes for hotels and now retrospective rates valuations, I hear their is a toilet tax planned as well as a new amount for organic material to be collected separately. None of this apparently can be collected with the billions they already have.

    Who doesn’t need to pay a tax at Auckland Council? America’s cup billionaire village, nope no tax for them in fact the ratepayers pay them millions for the tourist opportunity. Million dollar reports for a billion dollar stadium. Westgate developers to make shopping malls, where they are now suing the council over perceived losses…

    Oh it really helps to be a multimillionaire developer or at least a billionaire yacht owner or organiser to get the Auckland council to forego taxes, actually give them millions of dollars.

    What is wrong with this picture from an inequality perspective and going forward, I wonder?

  9. John up North 9

    This is the sort of shit that does my head in and leaves workers deep in the lurch, hopefully with the sorting of MSD some/all of these dumped workers can get adequate support to get by.

    Ebert construction folds, contractors arrive to locked gates and can’t get their tools etc back. Good ol’ receivers PWC says contractors “would have to go through the receivership process to get their assets back”

    And seems as tho’ Directors may have known up to a week ago that the plug was to be pulled.

    What ever happened to being conscientious and maybe giving people a heads up and fairly allowing access to their tools (livelihoods). How much more debt did contractors take on for Ebert in that time that has enlarged the albatrosses now around their necks?



    • gsays 9.1

      hi john, listening to the receiver on rnz, his reasoning for having the gates locked was protecting the assets of the workers.
      he reckoned that the contractors would thieve other workers gear.

      i suppose, as a receiver, he is used to people with greedy hearts.
      not everyone is motivated by getting anothers share of the pie.

      funny how workers almost always take a hit in loss of wages and income, yet there is enough money to pay receivers, accountants and lawyers- parasites in my eyes.

      while i am at it: when do directors pay for the consequences of their governance, either from their own full wallets or gaol time?

      • SaveNZ 9.1.1

        Gsays, my guess is the last thing on the receivers minds is protecting the workers. They will get nothing!

        But will the government clean up this practise of screwing over small construction firms and subcontractors?

        So far, nope, they will listen to rich lobbyists and big construction industry multinationals saying, we need more workers we can’t fill shortages, and then they import in cheap workers, so that the original developer who failed to run their business properly and goes under is back the next week, has more’new workers to exploit and the ones not being paid, go under themselves and cause a domino effect to the economy and leave the industry in disgust.

        • greywarshark

          How come they can’t be escorted in to get their tools? They need their boxes of socket sets, drills etc and it should be a case of government imposing some sort of anti-lien thing so that the company just can’t perform what is a sort of theft or denial of rights and access. Come on government central and local. You don’t seem to have any idea about business and how much effort and personal investment goes into one, or just being a contractor- John Campbell has been filling his last period with RadioNZ with a close look at the travails of contractors who have responded with some interesting anecdotes of what they have to put up with.

          The idea at present is that you go to university, or tertiary, pay for your education and that automatically gets you on the way to a good salary working for some entity, and you pay back for your education. All’s sweet.

          That’s probably what all the policy and law makers did. No idea of entrepreneurship, starting a physical business, and the extra costs in actually making things rather than getting a keyboard and buying an app and setting off as a smart alec in touch with the latest memes and in tune with the tech future. Bollocks.

          The tech future is a bunch of isolated anomic people who have given up the idea of true interacting and helpful communities living in a harmonious, and sustainable way, respecting each other’s strengths and expecting them to limit their weaknesses, willing to give a hand to others but expecting reciprocal attitudes, having freedom of choice so diversity but having concern for others. They won’t have to be perfect. They wons’t have to meet some sociopaths unreasonable time limits forced on them to keep up with the competition, talking at a rate of knots as if they are on speed. They will live on less money and be shabby chic as part of their style but not part of a fashion, making things and selling them using tech as an accessory, not their whole life frame.

          I read this about digital nomads, which was instructive.

    • greywarshark 9.2

      MXD should get dumped. A Ministry of Small Business and Enterprise should be in its place. This would help people get some enterprise going and set up markets and promotions so people can trade on top of whatever benefit they are being paid. At present the desire is to push people intoi poverty and then sneer at them for being needy and unable to manage their lives. It’s a real ‘bitch’ of an attitude in the worst sense, and is so old-fashioned and classist, we talk about Dickens and we are not wrong to compare with his scenarios.

      The idea would be to have everyone involved with their community, making stuff, helping whatever, and it would include volunteering which would be regarded as work if having a positive outcome and keeping to reasonable standards. Education and goals would be a base of people’s lives.

      Retired people would have a special place in the community as elders who were wise, and to help that wisdom they would be expected to do some education and then choose what area they would concentrate on to pass on their wisdom.
      Mentoring would be big on their agenda.

      Less rentiers and more doers of positive assistance. And wouldn’t cost more than MSD and their poisonous soul-destroying methods led by Shipley and Richardson.
      New leaders will revitalise us and wipe the crime statistics rise way down. Deadbeat dads will have a place in society where they can be good citizens and better role models to their children, even if rather inadequate.

    • Ad 9.3

      There’s no shortage of work for good builders.

      Hell at our joint we don’t even have enough staff to get the bid proposals out the door, let alone build the things.

      What is gutting is the thousands of dollars of tools that they’re forced to leave behind.

      I thought we’d passed a law against being locked out from your stuff like this?

    • SpaceMonkey 9.4

      Isn’t denying the contractors/workers to get their tools effectively theft?

    • millsy 9.5

      A $20 pair of boltcutters from Mitre 10 and a wait till sunset can solve a lot of problems.

  10. Gabby 10

    Sounds like they may’ve pulled a fletchers.

  11. Puckish Rogue 11


    ‘This displays an absolute contempt for voters, not to mention bad faith. If they weren’t willing to consider amendments, why did they even bother asking for submissions? It would have been more honest to say “we’re passing this, fuck you” from the outset – at least that way all those people wouldn’t have wasted their time.’

    Shame when blogs are doing a better job at reporting whats happening then the MSM are

    • SaveNZ 11.1

      Been happening for a long time, the politicians including councils are grossly out of touch and reducing democracy by their behaviour and have been for at least a decade+.

  12. Hongi Ika 12

    Problem here in NZ the Directors and the Management are never held accountable it is normally the small shareholders and the workers or contractors who end up sucking on the kumara ?

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      It’s not just here in NZ. In fact, we seem to be copying the worst aspects of letting the rich get away with their actions that cause massive damage to society that we see in the US/UK.

      • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1

        Quoting Why We Can’t Afford the Rich:

        How has this happened? How has the plutocracy, particularly the financial elite, been able to get away with crashing major economies, while maintaining their power and making others pay for its mistakes? In the UK, they’ve got away with it by blaming the public sector, the previous Labour government, and penalising and stigmatising those who have least to do with the crisis – the unemployed and other people on benefits. Remarkably, despite being key players in the most serious economic crisis for 80 years, the City of London and Wall Street have effectively seen off any threats to their power, and deepened their grip on politics. How come they seem to control everything when no one voted for them?

        • greywarshark

          The thing is that Treasury iis lately always on the side of business, usually big business, and has been taught to despise government as being inefficient and spenders. Why that should be a bad thing is not clear. National have spent on roads and have lost big money for the country by underwriting large and ineffective or failing technology programs.

          Treasury can help RW governments stay in power by showing them how to have tax cuts, and diminished services but still maintain living standards for the wealthy. Inevitably the people will buck at the services becoming non-existent, or scanty or random. Then the left wing comes in and tries to fix the problems somehow, but they have to keep the wealthy happy because otherwise the businessmen and women will throw their dummies out and go wah. So Labour/Coalition goes ahead and starts remedying the cracks in the system spending on delayed maintenance that has become structural. Then the RW starts the refrain that they are spenders and will put taxes up.

          And that is the unhealthy situation where the wealthy instead of feeling grateful and happy to belong to such a bonzer little country with bonzer people, become class conscious and don’t want even the shadow of a brown hoodied person in their ‘hood. NZ camaraderie and togetherness has broken down under the onslaught of constant disruption caused bythe combination of neo lib economics and the free market abandonment of NZ manufacturers. Unfortunately that seems the only cohesive system in the country, and it is anti people and so the country.

  13. Ad 14

    Nice last line from The Intercept today on whether peace was possible in Afghanistan, building on recent temporary truce moves:


    “I think it’s clear that the Taliban, the Afghan government, and the Afghan people as a whole are more ready for peace than ever. At this point, there is a need for assurances from the U.S. side that they will be willing to withdraw their troops, or at least modify their deployments, and that they will accept the result of talks among Afghans,” said Barnett Rubin, a senior fellow at the Center on International Cooperation at New York University. “The problem is that any sustainable peace deal also needs to have involvement from other countries in the region, including Iran, Russia, China, Pakistan, and India.

    The current administration is unable to even cooperate with Canada, so successfully engineering such a deal doesn’t seem very likely.”

    lols to Canada

    Which underscores not only the negative effect of the Trump administration on world peace, but also how necessary hard diplomatic work with multiple parties really is to get lasting results.

  14. ianmac 15

    Oh dear.
    Pauline Kingi has resigned from the enquiry into the process of appointment of Mr Wally Haumaha.
    So the unpleasant Bishop has undermined the integrity of a good person.

    • Puckish Rogue 15.1

      Shes still a good person but this avoids the taint of cronyism so thats a good thing

      • Rosemary McDonald 15.1.1

        I’m inclined to agree PR. I’d go further and ask how on Earth could Martin think that after such a public endorsement of this disgraceful cop, it would be appropriate for Kingi to look into the circumstances of his near Top Cop job?

        Yes Bishop and Co were just gleaning political milage out of this and I’d hazard they really don’t give a shit about the effect Wally’s words had on his mates’ victims, but his appointment was wrong and appointing a known fan of his to look into it.

    • veutoviper 15.2

      Very, very sad. And Tracey Martin again confirmed my respect for her in how she handled Bishop and the other Nats constantly interrupting etc in today’s Question 8 on this issue.


      And now Bishop is seeking to call an urgent debate on Dr Kingi’s resignation. The Speaker put it to the House but there were objections.

      And Chris Hipkins is opening the General Debate thanking Peters for his good work as Acting PM. Damn, I have to go out, but will watch on return.

  15. Ad 16

    Just in case we start getting questions about the Economic Freedom Fighters of South Africa, here they are in their own words:


  16. OnceWasTim 17

    Oh dear dear dear deary me!
    Eric Watson and Owen Glenn. What an unseemly display!
    Does anyone know where Eric has chosen his bolt hole? Greenland maybe, or somewhere up a Southland Fjord. Those 1st World problems eh? Such a bugger!!!

    • Rosemary McDonald 18.1

      Yes, and only fools will deny that the pathetic tinkering around the edges being done to try and mitigate the inevitable is not working.

      Kiwibuild will bring similar headlines.

      This government clearly hasn’t the balls to do what’s necessary.

      Thanks for the depressing links Jenny.

    • Exkiwiforces 18.2

      You’re forgotten about all those new Chinese Cities that they have built and they are still building them btw that are standing empty.

  17. eco maori 19

    Good morning The Am Show that was the bird sign that Winston gave brownly .
    The AllBIRDS Shoe range made from sugar kane rubber is cool I will by a set of there low carbon jandles most of te SUGAR should be made in rubber
    Condolences to all those people who have lost love ones and there houses we have to respect Papatuanuku more than we are at the moment . We can stop using OIL the OIL Baron’s have been blocking any proudct that compeets with OIL thats they way cheats behave I see there is a good story on the stuff website Main story
    My computa is playing up muppets once again Ka kite ano P.S so this is short and sweet

  18. eco maori 20

    Many thanks to Stuff website in Aotearoa for showing the good kiwis the truth of how te tangata whenua whenua was ripped from them with tricks cheats and lies thats a fact link below Ka kite ano


    • eco maori 20.1

      I see the neo liberal TROLL’S jumped on that first story I posted above pushing there dumb payed for troll views on the good kiwis.
      The facts are the NZ Company and the Crown set OUT to suppress te tangata whenua right from the start of contact with tangata whenua.
      The trolls chose not to hear that the waitangi settlements payments has been less than 1c in the dollar Ask Garth Morgan .
      These idiots who say what about being thank full for what the crown gave tangata whenua . Thanks for treating us like second rate people in our own land thanks for charging us for rent’s that take one person wage’s to pay for a moldy house .
      Thanks for treating Eco Maori like a criminal when I have worked hard since I was 14 I did not steal or cheat I have been honest with everyone I have met and worked hard for all my employers but that’s not good enough these people expect tangata to kiss there ASS sorry Eco Maori will not kiss anyone ASS why should I bow down because I’m Tangata whenua to anyone.
      There are many native people around Papatuanuku who are thriving without the British Crown being part of there society . Tangata whenua should be in the flash cars the flash houses and flash jobs we can not even enjoy the beautiful sights around Aotearoa how many tangata whenua do you see at all these flash Holiday locations why we can not afford a holiday because we are struggling to stay afloat so thanks for that .
      How did bill english probably not his original family name get to were he is with land ripped from tangata that’s how and that’s the point the troll’s are choosing to ignore
      All the wealthy people of new zealand are were they are from land ripped from tangata whenua Ana to kai ka kite ano link below

      https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/07/na-niu-tireni-new-zealand-made/ P.S thanks for conning my tangata that the justice systems are fair and honest

  19. eco maori 21

    I say that Te Wananga O Aotearoa should chase this industry one of the fastest growing industry’s on Papatuanuku
    I dream of te tangata whenua atua’s being main characters on video games and becoming the number 1 game in Papatuanuku I wanted to keep this to my self and set up the process to achieve this but what can one broke tane do so when I saw this story I decided It does not matter who achieve’s this task just as long as the idea lifts all te tangata whenua mana .
    People will tell you it cannot be achieved don’t listen to them just find away to achieve the goal of a large tangata whenua gaming and ap programing industry link below.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/105948215/skills-in-creativity-and-code-make-computer-games-a-sweet-spot-for-nz ka kite ano P.S make sure you find people you trust to get this going

  20. eco maori 22

    Another mess by national party after they changed the family court law the amount of warrents to take childred from there care givers rose sharply by 50%
    Eco Maori is connecting the dots on many of these topics . link below ka kite ano.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@taken-by-the-state/2017/08/15/42664/minister-seeks-answers-over-uplift-warrants P.S theres a link that the stats went from 400 per year to 600 a year .

  21. eco maori 23

    I take 11 year old whane mokopuna to the hosptial they give her something to make here sleep in my absence they do not tell me this fact the Doctor ask her some questions that are totally obscene as if she been abused. I have taken her to the hosptial 3 times she stayed 2 nites at the hospital I take her back today and nothing no service And to top it all off my daugter told me she read the notes and it say’s they pregnancy tested her urine.
    While the cops hide around the corner praying to get shit on Eco Moari also we still don’t no what’s wrong with our mokopuna we have had know advice on how to solve this problem with our mokopunas health problems thats how the CROWN treats tangata whenua I will be dragging there ASSES over the hot coals of te high COURT Muppets
    Ka kite ano P.S you see tangata Eco Maori is dealing with RED NECK SCUM

  22. eco maori 24

    Good evening Newshub Thats the way pay employers the dole to train tangata in the traded house building industry.
    I don’t know enough on the waitangi settlement that was sign in parliament today .
    I have my option on the treaty settelments industry I will inform you later .
    I will go buy some of those shoes and jandles that are carbon neutral that are
    AllBirds Eco Maori admires all the birds on Papatuanuku ka pai.
    There you go Mike our tangata whenua culture is being noticed all around Papatuanku J-Lo has noticed it thanks for this story .
    Fonterra is smelling the milk A2 milk is a high value milk product which is what Fonterra was formed to do provide more value for OUR farmers shows you what a change of generals can do to a organization.
    Hope the weather is going to warm up soon Ingrid
    Ka kite ano

  23. eco maori 25

    The Crowd Goes Wild Markere and Mulls yes the judges must have been blind not to see that the head but in the second round of Joe Parkers fight and now the cheat trys to say he had a broken hand.
    Well many thanks to Wyatt for his 200 games for the Crusaders thats a great mile stone I see Joe Moody is te tangata whenua ka pai .
    Yes Mark Graeme deserves his inclusion in to the NRL Hall of Fame I see Big Mal Manenga got a jacket to Ka pai I remember when they were playing and Wally Lewes they are hard men.
    Ka kite ano P.S you know I will be cheering the Crusaders on this weekend

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