Open mike 02/04/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 2nd, 2021 - 80 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

80 comments on “Open mike 02/04/2021 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Ad 1
    2 April 2021 at 7:31 am

    OMG Auckland airport is chaos inside and out this morning.

    • alwyn 5.1
      2 April 2021 at 10:27 am

      $36 million?

      That was in 2013. It was a waste of money then but the latest version was far worse. The one we just held cost us at least $250 million and had only a few entries, If you think $36 million was bad what do you think of $250 million?

      Now what good things could we have done with that sort of money?

      • Gabby 5.1.1
        2 April 2021 at 11:12 am

        It's far worse, and it won't have even bought votes. Maybe some doations.

        • Jenny how to get there 5.1.1.1
          2 April 2021 at 11:42 am

          Gabby5.1.1

          2 April 2021 at 11:12 am

          "….it won't have even bought votes. Maybe some doations."

          I can see the sense in that.

          Using taxpayers money to give donations to yourself through a grateful and wealthy third party makes a lot of sense.

          I mean, if you gave that money to poor people, they would just spend and not have any left over to donate to your party, no matter how grateful they were.

          Give it to rich people makes much more sense, they can always scratch around for a couple of loose thou or so down the back of the couch to donate to your party.

      • Cricklewood 5.1.2
        2 April 2021 at 12:02 pm

        Money well spent imo… purely because it inevitably ends up in forcing a little bit more of the industrial shite off the waterfront.

        • alwyn 5.1.2.1
          2 April 2021 at 12:40 pm

          That at least is a rational response. Cleaning the port area up might be a good idea (I don't really know and am not qualified to comment as I don't live there). Having the Yacht races doesn't seem essential for that though.

          Claiming that the America's Cup is good for the country isn't even a rational proposal in my opinion. And I used to sail when I was a lot younger so I am likely to be in the group that might be interested.

        • Gabby 5.1.2.2
          2 April 2021 at 2:36 pm

          Rich ppl playing trumps poor ppl working evrytime.

  6. Adrian Thornton 6
    2 April 2021 at 10:03 am

    Here is a piece from a few days ago when it was the tenth year since a western alliance of the USA, the UK and France bombed Libya, under the pretense of a humanitarian intervention…the result today being worse than one can imagine..and as is the case in those countries, our own media always seems to make room for news that promotes military intervention, but never an equal or more often no opposing voices to these actions…why is that?

    So of course when it all goes wrong or the west is caught fabricating reasons for military intervention on so called humanitarian grounds our media is also silent…why is that?

    And while we are on the issue of propaganda by omission, think about Julian Assange, a near media black out him now, though when the alleged 'rape' charges were being pushed, our media couldn't dive into the shit deep enough…why is that?

    Propaganda By Omission: Libya, Syria, Venezuela And The UK

    https://www.medialens.org/2021/propaganda-by-omission-libya-syria-venezuela-and-the-uk/

    • Gabby 6.1
      2 April 2021 at 11:13 am

      Are the Brits selling arms to the factions?

    • Jenny how to get there 6.2
      2 April 2021 at 1:33 pm

      Following Assad’s genocidal erasing of tens of thousands Syrians, the clean up gang come along behind him to finish the job.

      Erasing People through Disinformation

      https://newpol.org/erasing-people-through-disinformation-syria-and-the-anti-imperialism-of-fools/?fbclid=IwAR1XxbXquhnE-Na92_rO-h56zYv_cDU-uEp3-HYVk5Oo9kIlUhnd42hFH_k

      • Adrian Thornton 6.2.1
        2 April 2021 at 2:26 pm

        @Jenny how to get there
        So lets be clear here, are you saying that allowing the OCPW/USA/UK/France falsify OCPW documents and reports that allow for military strikes in Syria is OK with you because Assad must be removed by the western intervention if necessary?

        • Jenny how to get there 6.2.1.1
          2 April 2021 at 10:27 pm

          @Adrian Thornton

          I do not allow and would not allow OCPW etc to falsify documents and reports, as you impute I am.

          You are twisting things to fit your preconceived views of my motives.

          I don't have a hidden agenda. I have been to Syria and witnessed the Assad regime close up. Admittedly that was just before the war, in 2010, but I have followed events there very closely ever since, including watching live feeds of the regime's first atrocities against civilians in places I had been in only months before and knew well.

          To me the most telling quote in the following video, is this one. @7:37 minutes in.

          Which I have transcribed for you below:

          "….It is important to note that these chemical attacks are not the only documented war crimes that have been committed by Syrian Government forces throughout this entire conflict There are plenty of other human rights violations that have been committed by the Syrian Arab Army that the West could easily have used to justify invading Syria years ago…."

          Syria Chemical Attacks: 10 Truther Arguments Debunked

          One of those 'other' war crimes is the undeniable total destruction of the Syrian city of Homs. Apologists for the Assad regime on this blogsite have consistently and repeatedly refused to address or admit to the evidence of their own eyes to the scale of this mass murder of a Syrian civilian population by the Assad regime.

          This is an unaparralled war crime, no other government in human history has carpet bombed its own cities.

          This and other monstrous war crimes and human rights abuses by the Assad regime are swept under the carpet and ignored by Assad apologists to give credence to the 'regime change conspiracy' narrative.

          https://thestandard.org.nz/heroes-2/#comment-1299116

          [Link fixed]

  7. Adrian Thornton 7
    2 April 2021 at 11:44 am

    Something I didn't know until today, the BBC world Service is unregulated….so in other words, can publish or provide to other countries news services like New Zealand's, news that has no regulatory oversight what so ever…

    " BBC World Service is not regulated by Ofcom. Instead the BBC is responsible for setting its overall strategic direction, the budget and guarding its editorial independence for World Service. It must set and publish a Licence for the World Service, which defines its remit, scope, annual budget and main commitments, as well as "objectives, targets and priorities" which are agreed with the Foreign Secretary."

    https://www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/regulation

    This foreign Secretary…

    UK Continues To Recognize Guaido As Venezuela's Interim President – Foreign Secretary

    https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/uk-continues-to-recognize-guaido-as-venezuela-1134905.html

    On Russia..
    Dominic Raab to call on Nato allies to ‘face down’ threat from Russia
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-nato-blinken-russia-b1821346.html

    Dominic Raab re; Navalny

    https://twitter.com/dominicraab/status/1351077741056172039?lang=en

    Dominic Raab re; Assange

    Silence

    I could go on with examples of Raab's anti progressive/Left positions but you get the idea…

    So the mystery around to where at least some of our own misinformed, underinformed international news/views comes from is easily explained.

    One of the strange thing I thought of while typing this comment, is how many so called ‘lefties’ agree vehemently with all the positions of the UK conservative Foreign Secretary…..hilarious.

    • greywarshark 7.1
      2 April 2021 at 12:38 pm

      Aye and there's the rub!

      Our Labour government is proposing to do away with our totally government run and controlled radio, for a few shekels. Jack in the Beanstalk sold solid milkfat for unknown types of beans that happily grew into a giant plant which he climbed then found gold and a magic harp. Fairytales like this are what Labour believe in, in their hearts if they have any.

      They are planning to put the mostly commercial tv model to use for radio, the one place where they should get their message over without tilting someone's elbow. The bloody fools, they have put the cowherd in charge of running the farm, and he is selling it off like Jack while the few who should understand this and be responsible look the other way. Faafoi has announced:

      "A new public media entity would operate with a mixed funding model, drawing part of its revenue from commercial sources and part from government funding," Faafoi confirmed.

      "It would provide content across a variety of platforms, and have full editorial and operational independence from Government enshrined in legislation." (This was copied from the newspaper piece on Apr.1/2021 – Panel to oversee radio, TV proposal)

      On-line – https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124710016/rnz-tvnz-merger-will-now-get-down-to-the-nitty-gritty-says-minister

      ..Broadcasting Minister Kris Faafoi has said he expects to take a case for the proposal to the Cabinet in October…

      The members of the governance group appointed by Faafoi are Tracey Martin, Glen Scanlon, Michael Anderson, Sandra Kailahi, Bailey Mackey, William Earl, John Quirk, and Trisha Dunleavy….

      Details about them are in the on line piece.

      1984 deja vu all over again, Labour being the pointy-headed kids on the block, demonstrating (to whom?) how cleaver [sic] they are, modern, efficient, smaller government etc. How Labour can sell off, virtually, this major item of national importance capable of delivering excellent product, and tarnish it, with the old adage of commercial doing it better – that's an oxymoron. But Labour appears to be run by morons, lost in the world of Now which I can see clearly by standing away from it, noticing, educating myself, thinking about it, they are too close, too tied to the 'beltway'.

      These people, (are they?) running the Labour Party are driving us right into the BBC-media state, which is the one that helped bring down silly Jeremy Corbyn who waited to do anything to first see what the people had to say. The people couldn't see clearly what was happening because there isn't a clear path that they know to follow, to the actual news and explanations about its background. That was then, now BBC has jumped through the flaming hoop like a well-trained little hound.

      And UK Labour is held in limbo apparently by the anti-Palestine group who control and will agitate against any power that the terminal left try to exert. We will have our own agitators controlling everything we say and do that is outside of a closed agenda decided by others who have the media's ear.

      Anne Perry could write a great novel using her modern detective but ferreting out dark secrets, undercurrents and venality here just as she did for London in the Victorian years.

      • Adrian Thornton 7.1.1
        2 April 2021 at 2:44 pm

        @greywarshark…yes it is very sad that out Labour government now is Left only in peoples imaginations…the are a Free Market liberal party…just check out what is happening to our public Libraries and Universities across most of NZ…not only are Labour free market fundamentalism their free market policies leads directly to anti intellectualism.

        There is no turning Labour Left!..abandon ship.

  8. Stuart Munro 8
    2 April 2021 at 12:21 pm

    One of the strange thing I thought of while typing this comment, is how many so called ‘lefties’ agree vehemently with all the positions of the UK conservative Foreign Secretary…..hilarious.

    Certainly no more 'hilarious' than the otherwise left supporters that uncritically endorse a murderous kleptocracy.

    • Adrian Thornton 8.1
      2 April 2021 at 2:36 pm

      You are starting to sound like some sort of unhinged anti Putin fundamentalist here Stuart Munro..anyway I will say this again, and hopefully for the last time…show the readers of The Standard just one time I have said anything pro Putin or have linked to one piece that is pro Putin…

      If you cannot find that one time, then Stuart Munro you are then honour bound to give me a full apology, or if it turns out you are not a honourable person ..then how about not commenting on my comments in the future if you all you can do is spread lies and innuendo.

      In other words put up or shut up.

      • Stuart Munro 8.1.1
        2 April 2021 at 3:38 pm

        Right back at you, you tragic dupe.

        Show us one – just one time you have departed from the Kremlin script on:

        Syria, Novichoks, Navalny, Ukraine

        Which makes your views less part of genuine individual opinion, which should be tolerated, and more like braying the cant of a mischievous propagandist, which should not.

        It ought not to surprise you if many leftists here occasionally find common ground with a conservative UK foreign office, if only because policy endures beyond individual governments.

        The UK position on Russia necessarily reflects the concerns of fellow NATO members who face invasion if Russia is allowed to do whatever it will. If your views were ever informed by the experiences of anyone from eastern Europe instead of your go to nutbar sites, you might have a glimmering of why that might not be an appealing prospect.

        • Adrian Thornton 8.1.1.1
          2 April 2021 at 4:51 pm

          "occasionally find common ground with a conservative UK foreign office,"

          Slightly more than occasional…

          Julian Assange
          Venezuela
          Navalny
          Syria regime change
          Russiagate
          China
          Libya (when it was happening)
          Ukraine

          etc etc etc…man you and Boris (and Thatcher probably) would get on real well, seems like a very similar world view you guys got going there…sort looks a lot like a modernist colonialist ideology when you think about it for one second….which of course you don't, though for most intelligent people it is quite obvious you and your pals are in fact just modern colonists only just under the surface, which is why I have always described you lot as nothing more than [deleted] only waiting for the order to arrive.

          Yep the irony is that you and so many like you who go on and on about authoritarianism are all just under the surface craving that very thing..it's so transparent it actually quite funny….just like all those conservative preachers who everyone know are going to get busted for something dodgy in the not too distant future…that is you right there pal, shit for all we know you probably admire Putin deep down yourself, I wouldn't be surprised if something like that came out if you where on the couch for half an hour..LOL!!

        • Adrian Thornton 8.1.1.2
          2 April 2021 at 6:50 pm

          Actually lets see what Putin has to say about Russiagate himself, it seems that unlike Biden and Boris Putin has no problem sitting down with hostile foreign journo's…

          • Stuart Munro 8.1.1.2.1
            2 April 2021 at 7:51 pm

            I don't need to hear Putin's version. I heard everything I need to know about him decades ago – and he hasn't changed a bit.

            Maybe, just maybe, you should search out the other side of the story – the one you have chosen is not remotely tenable.

            I get that you're young, and have no access to primary sources. Doesn't mean you can take the devil at his word however.

            You might want to reflect upon why it is that the main Russiagate deniers are the kind of loons who stormed the capitol. Are these your fellow travellers? Maybe you're not as Left as you think.

  9. greywarshark 9
    2 April 2021 at 1:01 pm

    We need unions for sure, that understand employers and watch out for union members.

    Whenever we use Amazon for online shopping delivery, we should feel guilty. The company’s labour practices are notoriously unsafe. Shop floor employees in Amazon warehouses are required to work punishing ten to 12 hour shifts that routinely require them to walk 24 kilometres a day to fill orders and stack shelves. Meanwhile, their work output and journeys round the warehouses are being electronically tracked and timed to maximise efficiency…

    Gordon Campbell on Amazon and their workers –

    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2103/S00109/on-the-battle-to-bring-some-humanity-into-amazons-work-practices.htm

  10. Muttonbird 10
    2 April 2021 at 1:29 pm

    My argument on inequality is still evolving

    Translation: You don't have one and it disinterests you.

    We have to universally bury this culture of low expectations that dogs the petty underbelly of this country.

    Yet you promote low expectations when advocating for more dominance of the residential retail market by amateur landlords.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    [The first step of the Moderation process often is moving a comment/thread to OM – Incognito]

    • RedLogix 10.1
      2 April 2021 at 1:43 pm

      Translation: You don't have one and it disinterests you.

      Considering that the site search engine gives over 250 results on my handle and the word 'inequality' – then I think you're making shit up again.

      • Muttonbird 10.1.1
        2 April 2021 at 1:49 pm

        Meh. Inequality is a dependent part of the current capitalist system you champion. You love it.

        • RedLogix 10.1.1.1
          2 April 2021 at 2:02 pm

          Last time you just started making shit up it nearly ended badly. Is this what you're angling for again?

          Because your deliberate baiting here is both unsubtle and going to go unrewarded.

          • solkta 10.1.1.1.1
            2 April 2021 at 2:07 pm

            That is hardly fair given what you make up about others, that we don't really care about black people etc.

          • Muttonbird 10.1.1.1.2
            2 April 2021 at 2:12 pm

            You just don't like facing criticism about your controversial opinions. You delete comments that are critical of you as if you occupy some hallowed ground because of the length and wordiness of your posts.

            • RedLogix 10.1.1.1.2.1
              2 April 2021 at 2:33 pm

              Fuck off. (Happy now?)

              • Gabby …
                2 April 2021 at 2:41 pm

                That's hardly constructive.

                [The Easter bunny needs cheering up and I’ve volunteered your services. Have fun, you two, and see you after Easter – Incognito]

                • Incognito …
                  2 April 2021 at 2:53 pm

                  See my Moderation note @ 2:41 pm.

                  • Adrian Thornton …
                    2 April 2021 at 6:55 pm

                    I assume you censored my comment…shame, it suited them perfectly. I will keep an eye out and see if you apply your censorship fairly in the future.

                    • Incognito …
                      2 April 2021 at 7:09 pm

                      I deleted a nasty insult and if you use it again, I will delete it again and step up the ‘censorship’ until you stop insulting other commenters here with your despicable language or until you will lose your commenting privileges here, which you will undoubtedly label ‘cancelled’.

                      The Pre-Moderation filter is my friend; you keep an eye on your own behaviour here, which is the issue, as far as I am concerned, and you don’t need to concern yourself with how I apply my ‘censorship’ to others, as this is already covered well by another commenter who feels compelled to act as ‘critic and conscience’ on and of this site.

                      Stop your moaning and lift your game.

                    • Adrian Thornton …
                      2 April 2021 at 7:23 pm

                      "Stop your moaning and lift your game" …. going to end your comment with that, really?

                    • Incognito []
                      2 April 2021 at 7:27 pm

                      Fair enough.

                      Have a good Easter, Adrian.

  11. greywarshark 11
    2 April 2021 at 1:32 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/439661/state-builds-missing-from-govt-housing-package Apr. 1/21

    By Bryce Edwards* (says a mouthful and i assume it isn't an April fool)

    Opinion: Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern can essentially say "kia kaha" as much as she wants to those at the bottom of the housing market, but it won't help their plight. Eventually her government is going to have to take state housing seriously as a tool for helping solve the housing crisis – especially for low-to-average income earners, who were ignored in last week's housing package announcement.

    State housing – government housing setting a base for housing the poor, many of whom the government has helped to make that way, what a good idea.

    Seeing successive governments have followed in 1984 Labour's footsteps and discarded a great range of jobs as a sacrifice to bring in cheap goods and open trading lines, at the same time keeping wages down so that those still working find it impossible to have a life without two wages and devil take the children, say the gummint; what a good idea that government ploughs some of that money into reasonable housing in an appropriate place.

    Of course not in low-lying areas where they are packed closely together where the temperature rises high, in Sydney to 50degrees in day, falling to a 'low' of 30degrees appr. at night. https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018789468/sydney-s-western-suburbs-australian-nightmare

    With all that in mind, it is essential for the government to get off its fat bum, (not PC? they deserve worse), and do some appropriate state housing. And could you also raise the bar on the high jump for speculators whether NZ born, white, green or orange, and foreign-born of whatever colour or ethnicity. Remember Rackman in the UK! How come we repeat the history when we have had so much education to enable us to learn about?

    Perec or Peter Rachman came to England during the war as a refugee from Poland. He died a millionaire in 1962. Rachman started work in an estate agency in Shepherds Bush but soon branched out on his own to exploit the post-war housing shortage.
    Infamous residents – Peter Rachman

    • Incognito 11.1
      2 April 2021 at 2:10 pm

      I can’t be bothered with Bryce. His pieces and contributions used to be ok many years ago, but now he’s almost as bad, boring, and biased as Plan B.

      Just for you, Bryce: https://www.hud.govt.nz/community-and-public-housing/increasing-public-housing/public-housing-plan/

      • Bearded Git 11.1.1
        2 April 2021 at 2:54 pm

        Agree entirely Incog. Bryce Edwards is a devious and misleading commentator who seems to be a slave to the right. The figures he quotes in his article give an entirely false impression.

        As the figures in your link show, the Labour-led government will increase public housing by 14,000 in the period 2018-2024, an increase of 20%. Creditable, though more still would be preferable.

        Over the 9 years of the Key junta the number of state houses actually decreased. Key and English sold them off to bolster the public accounts so that they could give tax cuts to their mates.

        • alwyn 11.1.1.1
          2 April 2021 at 4:24 pm

          "Labour-led government will increase public housing". That is probably OK as far as it goes. After all one more house would make that claim true. But why do you think it will be on anything like the scale in the proposal you have linked to?

          What a trusting person you are. They say that, this time, they are going to achieve something significant. You actually seem to believe, in spite of all the evidence from past promises, that they will do what they have promised.

          Well, back in 2017 they promised that they would build 100,000 houses in 10 years. Then they gave some estimates for the first 3 years. And how did they get on? All true believers now look in the other direction. It was a total disaster wasn't it?

          They promised that by the end of 2021 there would be light rail to Mt Roskill. No ifs, no buts. It would be there. Well they haven't even got a route so far, so what are the chances that it will be achieved?

          But we are now asked to believe that things will be different this time. This time the numbers they promise are really truly going to happen. And everyone can believe in the tooth fairy as well I suppose.

          • Foreign waka 11.1.1.1.1
            2 April 2021 at 6:50 pm

            It all comes down to money, or the 16 billions they gave the rich so that a few breadcrumbs can fall off the table. There is no money for infrastructure, housing or any other improvement we wish to see. If there isn't a Corporate in line of bolstering their pockets, we are simply out of luck. Look at the timber shortage and the commercial manoeuvring in NZ. Anyone can see we are being blackmailed to give up on public housing. Meanwhile, the government needs to fill the hole of 16 bill. with log exports. Aren't they?

        • Chris T 11.1.1.2
          2 April 2021 at 5:07 pm

          As the figures in your link show, the Labour-led government will increase public housing by 14,000 in the period 2018-2024, an increase of 20%. Creditable, though more still would be preferable.

          You mean the same Labour that promised 100,000 houses in ten years about 3 1/2 years ago and failed embarrassingly to the point of giving in and saying it was bollocks?

          Why are we supposed t trust their housing promises again?

          • Drowsy M. Kram 11.1.1.2.1
            2 April 2021 at 5:46 pm

            How many houses has the National party built or promised to build – anyone?

            • Chris T 11.1.1.2.1.1
              2 April 2021 at 6:00 pm

              Probably a few.

              I don't know.

              Do you mind pointing out the relevance other than whataboutism?

              Are they the current government making promises?

              I know it is annoying, but at some stage it needs to sink in to you Key hasn't been around for 4 years or so.

              Or a we going to go with "It is ok Labour are shit at (insert issue), because the other lot were nearly as shit” for another 3 years?

              • McFlock …
                2 April 2021 at 6:14 pm

                National decreased the overall state housing stock in its period in power.

                Labour is increasing it. Has done so. Will it get to 14,000? Maybe. Would have to pull finger, but it's already moving in the correct direction.

                You know what's worse than trying to get X number of extra homes built and failing? Not even trying.

                So National didn't promise or try to improve things (well, except towards the end, when they started promising to halve child poverty in a sudden pretence of caring). Labour has tried to achieve its goals, failed on some and succeeded on others.

              • mac1 …
                2 April 2021 at 6:28 pm

                One of the things about "whataboutism" is that it does introduce the concept of hypocrisy, in that a party which criticises another party for doing 'nothing' or 'not enough' when it actually made things worse by selling off housing which it did not replace as it promised, is accountable. The 'what about you' points out this hypocrisy.

                • Chris T …
                  2 April 2021 at 6:31 pm

                  Easter holiday quiz

                  How many State houses has Labour sold off since 2017

                  • Incognito …
                    2 April 2021 at 6:45 pm

                    Not as many as the number of Easter eggs I have eaten today.

                  • mac1 …
                    2 April 2021 at 7:55 pm

                    How many were sold in areas where they were no longer needed due to population shift? The question really should be, "How many sold……… and for what reason?"

                    In the town where I live, our National MP assured us in Grey Power that houses would be built to replace those sold. They weren't. Houses that I looked at as being up for sale but in need of refurbishment under National were not sold under Labour,
                    and are being done up. As well, a hundred more are being built in the region. The spokesperson for Grey Power locally (not me!) reported to our recent AGM that he was very pleased with local and national (small 'n', =note) government efforts in addressing housing needs locally.

                    • Chris T …
                      2 April 2021 at 8:11 pm

                      “How many were sold in areas where they were no longer needed due to population shift?”

                      Exactly what National said

                  • McFlock …
                    2 April 2021 at 9:24 pm

                    Let's see…
                    current housing stock (dec 2020) 67,364 (63,788 state rentals).

                    dec 2017: 63,209 (61,323 rentals).

                    So several thousand fewer than they bought or built.

                    dec 2015: 67,182 (65,681 rentals).

                    Seems to be the usual for the last 40 years. Nats sell off state housing, then complain that Labour haven't repaired their damage quickly enough.

                  • Rapunzel …
                    3 April 2021 at 6:26 am

                    Certainly not a city's (1140) worth as the National govt did in Tauranga – who decided that was a remotely good idea to lose the income from freehold properties & the valuable land they stand on in a city with a shortage of it. The "idea" failed were English put both the entire stock of Tauranga & Invercargill up as Invercargill in 2014-2016, into 2017 when the sale was completed, was experiencing none of the demand for property Tauranga did and still does. Now the tax payer supplements the "market" rents – so lost income, lost land and supplemented rents on 1140 properties hardly stacks up as a brilliant idea by any assessment. The owners Accessible Properties had approx 1600 properties in 2017 now they have 2700 approx so any claim it would lead to social housing providers providing extra social housing on the back of it is bunkum – they are profit for purpose supported by tax payers money.

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                3 April 2021 at 12:42 am

                Probably a few.

                I don’t know.

                I’m surprised that you don’t know, given the on-going importance of this issue.

                Do you mind pointing out the relevance other than whataboutism?

                Better to have tried and failed (Labour), than to have never tried at all (National), imho.

                "It is ok Labour are shit at (insert issue), because the other lot
                 [National party] were nearly as shit shittier”

                "Nearly as shit"! Mate, yer dreaming.

  12. Muttonbird 12
    2 April 2021 at 1:48 pm

    Andrew Bolt asks of Kiwis:

    Your Government, your Prime Minister. Why are they letting Australia hang in the wind? Why are they not backing us up in this very serious confrontation with the Chinese dictatorship.

    Perhaps he should ask Peter Dutton.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/04/australian-tv-host-andrew-bolt-launches-extraordinary-tirade-against-backstabbing-new-zealand-for-sucking-up-to-china.html

  13. Muttonbird 13
    2 April 2021 at 2:09 pm

    Here's why tenants shouldn't worry about housing changes

    Sell and run?

    Property investors won't sell up and run, due to a very common trait. Most are wusses when it comes to risk. That’s not a bad thing. They know their tolerance level and they’re stable investors. They won't switch asset classes easily and often have no diversification.

    This is good news for tenants as their attitude to risk makes them more prepared to absorb regulatory shock. Long term, tax-free capital gains on borrowed money will always attract them.

    Sound reason in this article by Janine Starks. Make a mockery (and she does mock them) of landlord's claims they are going to hammer tenants for this.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/300266869/heres-why-tenants-shouldnt-worry-about-housing-changes

    • Alan 13.1
      2 April 2021 at 4:21 pm

      Grasping at straws, the simple theory of supply and demand will prevail, you just watch.

      • Muttonbird 13.1.1
        2 April 2021 at 4:27 pm

        The simple theory of supply and demand has not led to desirable outcomes for all, which is I assume what everyone wants. Constraints on the supply side render the theory inadequate, therefore some intervention is required.

        I am fairly certain that homes aren't being destroyed and house numbers are rising quite rapidly, if not rapidly enough.

        I imagine rents will rise at about the same pace as they have historically, that is well above wage growth. As it ever was 🙁

    • Chris T 13.2
      2 April 2021 at 5:27 pm

      No they won't cut and run.

      They will just ramp up every ones rent.

    • Graeme 13.3
      2 April 2021 at 8:05 pm

      This is probably the 'uninvestable' reasoning that she refers to

      https://www.wealthmorning.com/2021/03/29/637883/help-they-just-made-housing-uninvestable/

      Simon Angelo is quite impressed with what the government has done and not that keen on small scale residential rental / investment as a business.

      Even more disingenuous is suggesting that most residential rental homes are a ‘business.’ Most operators do not provide the service at any scale. Nor are they incentivised to grow profits by delivering a more productive service.

      A low-yield building that mainly allows one customer to have a roof over their head looks more like a social good, not a market product. Perhaps we need to change the way we provide it?

      Businesses produce profits across many customers. They, in turn, are subject to industry, health, trading, taxation, and countless specific regulations.

      Angelo does have a barrow to push, he sells investment products other than housing. He's quite keen on the idea of a listed company that builds and rents medium to high density housing, either as a partial float of Housing New Zealand, or a new entity.

      https://www.wealthmorning.com/2021/03/15/637215/how-investors-could-solve-the-housing-crisis/

      There's already a couple of outfits doing the build to rent thing Du Val, and Williams Corp who've previously been pre-sold builders but have been popping up on my Facebook feed with build to rent product returning 10%

    • Chris T 13.4
      3 April 2021 at 12:12 am

      Do you mind posting some actual numbersm with links, as no offence, but the link is a bit shit proving whatever point you are trying to make,

      • Muttonbird 13.4.1
        3 April 2021 at 7:05 pm

        There were plenty of numbers in that link.

        Perhaps you have trouble recognising what a number is, because you very, very rarely back up anything you write with numbers, via links or otherwise.

        I thought the article was very well thought out by a person well established in the personal finance and investment industry. It was also a relief to hear someone in that industry not hand-wring about the recent legislative changes and show that this will in fact stabilise the rental market by weeding out amateur and leveraged party-time investors.

  14. Robert Guyton 14
    2 April 2021 at 2:44 pm

    Is there room here for shameless self-promotion?

    One hour (a whole hour?!?) mooching about in my forest-garden, ruminating aloud, in the presence of nimble cameraman James Jubb 🙂

    • alwyn 14.1
      2 April 2021 at 4:30 pm

      I haven't watched all of it yet Robert, but I plan to.

      Yes, for something like this I think you are quite entitled to be proud of it and to make available to others. Mind you, I think the rampant growth of your beard almost puts the growth of the vegetation to shame.

      • Robert Guyton 14.1.1
        2 April 2021 at 9:32 pm

        Thanks, Alwyn – I hope you enjoy the watch. As to my beard; it's synchronised it's progress with that of the forest, I'm sure 🙂

    • solkta 14.2
      2 April 2021 at 5:53 pm

      Thanks Robert, just finished watching it all the way through. Very inspiring for what i am doing here though mine will be a fraction of the size. I have very sheltered but sunny half an acre in Whangarei.

      Last winter i planted a good 150 native plants and lots of comfrey. This winter i will put in plum and apricot trees now i have mostly finished my terracing. I've got four pineapple plants in pots to go in and will do more once once the pineapples are available again at the growers market. I'm also looking to put in mandarins, grapes, bananas and thornless blackberries.

      Here is a link re the pineapple people:

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018788272/tropical-fruit-coffee-potential-crops-for-winterless-north

      • Robert Guyton 14.2.1
        2 April 2021 at 9:33 pm

        Thanks for sticking with it, solkta and thanks for the interesting link.

  15. Pat 15
    2 April 2021 at 8:19 pm

    Interesting musings on the housing package by Brian Easton

    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/taxing-questions-about-taxing-housing