Open mike 02/08/2014

102 comments on “Open mike 02/08/2014 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   2 August 2014 at 7:24 am

   Genocide in Gaza.

   The ongoing massacres in Gaza are too shocking for words.

   The world is demanding a ceasefire.

   Someone needs to tell the US backers of Israel that ceasefire, means ceasefire.

   Under the truce negotiated by the US, Israel reserved the right to continue their military offensive against the Palestinian tunnels.

   This was a recipe for disaster.

   As you would expect the Palestinian defenders resisted the destruction of the tunnels, exchanging fire with the Israeli attackers. To which the Israelis responded by restarting their shelling of civilian areas.

   The Israeli military had no immediate comment but media reports said the shelling began after Hamas fighters exchanged fire with Israeli soldiers on a mission to destroy infiltration tunnels.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/world/10336166/Gaza-ceasefire-over-within-hours

   Under the terms of the partial truce, the fighting should have been restricted to the tunnels. But even though there were no reports of Israeli casualties in the ‘exchange of gunfire’. In revenge at the return gunfire, Israel resumed shelling of civilian areas, killing 40.

   In response to this massacre, conducted outside the conditions of the partial truce, Palestinians resumed their rocket fire on Israel, launching 8 unguided projectiles at Israel, which as usual proved ineffective, seven landing in open areas and one being intercepted by Israel’s hi tech. ‘Iron Dome’ missile defence system.

   As well as shelling and bombing civilian areas, the Israelis as they have done in past attacks and continue to do, have been targeting the territory’s infrastructure, and have destroyed the territory’s only power station leaving 1.5 million city dwellers without electricity. The destruction of Gaza’s infrastructure including farms, alongside the permanent blockade restricting the entry of food and medicine amounts to a slow motion genocide. UN reports are that the destruction of the water and waste water systems by Israel is causing sickness and death in the blockaded territory. And the UN also report that the amount of food available to the citizens of Gaza is approaching famine levels with over 61% facing severe food insecurity. And this was even before the latest hostilities erupted.

   Israel must stop their brutal attacks on civilians and lift their illegal blockade, or be found guilty of conducting genocide against the Palestinians.

   Our Government need to warn the Israelis that we will cut off all diplomatic ties.

   And if the government won’t do it then the opposition parties should promise it.
   • Grumpy 1.1

     2 August 2014 at 9:07 am

     So Hamas break the ceasefire after only 3 hours, firing rockets, killing and kidnapping an Iraeli soldier.
     http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Terrorism/Pages/Rise-in-rocket-fire-from-Gaza-3-Jul-2014.aspx
     Who would have thought. Bet all these nice peaceful Palestinian terrorists are taking good care of him…..yeah, right.
     • Jenny 1.1.1

       2 August 2014 at 10:17 am

       Let’s quote the article in the link to the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs website that Grumpy gives us:

       http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Terrorism/Pages/Rise-in-rocket-fire-from-Gaza-3-Jul-2014.aspx

       August 1

       Hamas fired at IDF forces in southern Gaza at 9:30 this morning in violation of the humanitarian ceasefire. IDF soldier suspected kidnapped.

       The IDF were given the right to carry on military operations against the tunnels under the terms of the US arranged ceasefire. I understand that.

       According to the IDF and the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, under the terms of this ceasefire agreement, the Palestinians defending these tunnels were also supposed to disarm themselves and allow themselves to be helplessly killed or taken into indefinite detention by the armed IDF attackers.

       Now let’s get this straight, The IDF seem to think that under the terms of this ceasefire as well as having the right to carry out military attacks against the Palestinian tunnelers they also had a free pass to kill or capture the Palestinian defenders without them proffering any resistance. And because they faced armed resistance they had a right to resume shelling unarmed civilians.

       According to the same website I also see that these military operations against the tunnels were carried out on Gazan territory.

       In this case you would think that the Palestinians would have a fully justified and equal right to defend themselves from the Israeli attackers in their own territory. But it seems not.

       UN special envoy Robert Serry issues statement: He was informed by Israel of “a serious incident this morning” during the truce involving “a tunnel behind IDF lines in the Rafah area of the Gaza Strip.” If confirmed “this would constitute a serious violation of the humanitarian ceasefire in place since 8 am this morning by Gazan militant factions, which should be condemned in the strongest terms.”

       Israeli proganda tells us that their operations are to destroy infiltration tunnels into Israel.
       Even the most ignorant of commentators know that Rafah is nowhere near Israel.
       In fact Rafah is in the Sinai desert on the Egyptian border in the far south of Gaza, far removed from Israeli territory. Rafah is the site of the smuggling tunnels which have been Gaza’s only lifeline to the outside world since Egypt, Israel’s ally keeps the official Rafah surface crossing firmly closed except for the most basic of medical aid shipments.

       So lets understand this: Fully armed IDF soldiers were allowed to use lethal force to destroy smuggling tunnels in the South of Gaza far removed from Israeli territory and kill or capture any Palestinians who resisted, but the Palestinians did not have equal rights to defend themselves from these attacks?

       And for daring to defend themselves and because they captured one IDF soldier the IDF massacred 40 Palestinians with shell fire into a civilian area?

       And the world is supposed to accept this?
     • millsy 1.1.2

       2 August 2014 at 1:04 pm

       They should offer to give him up in return for your beloved IDF stopping the slaughter of innocent civilians.

       I bet you approved of the 1968 My Lai Massacre.
     • Murray Olsen 1.1.3

       3 August 2014 at 12:10 am

       Hamas claim that the prisoner of war was captured before the ceasefire took effect. Their claim seems plausible. Why do the Zionists use the misleading term “kidnapping”? Kidnapping is more descriptive of what they do to young Palestinians on the West Bank. As for the care of the captured invader, he’ll probably be better looked after than many Arabs in Israeli interrogation centres.
       • Colonial Viper 1.1.3.1

         3 August 2014 at 12:35 am

         Last I heard the IDF dropped a 1000kg munition on his last known location, probably killing him and the Hamas fighters with him.

         Of course, the official story is that the IDF were only aiming for the Hamas fighters…
         • Murray Olsen 1.1.3.1.1

           3 August 2014 at 12:51 am

           Serves him right for using Hamas as human shields.
   • Chooky 1.2

     2 August 2014 at 11:29 am

     +100 Jenny….good post…it really is shocking!…we are witness to crimes against humanity

     ‘A brief word on “We tortured some folks” ‘

     By Martyn Bradbury / August 2, 2014

     “We’ll just add these State sanctioned tortures alongside the state sanctioned drone assassinations and state sanctioned coups and invasions shall we?…

     • See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/02/a-brief-word-on-we-tortured-some-folks/#sthash.mObE0Sz0.dpuf
2. Red Rosa 2

   2 August 2014 at 7:36 am

   Well said. This is a truly appalling situation.

   What have Labour got to say about Gaza?
   • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

     2 August 2014 at 7:46 am

     Did you check their press release feed on the right hand side of this page? Or is someone else to do it for you?
     • Jenny 2.1.1

       2 August 2014 at 8:03 am

       You mean this one?

       http://campaign.labour.org.nz/unconditional_gaza_ceasefire_needed_now

       “Pressure needs to be brought to bear by the US, UN, European Union and Arab States on both sides to stop.

       “That settlement must address the potential for future violence, but also the long term issues of the Gaza Strip.

       “Gaza has 40% unemployment, a collapsed economy, food shortages and an infrequent electricity supply that sees untreated sewage piped into the sea.

       “These conditions will inevitably sow the seeds for further conflict if they’re not resolved. Young people need hope, not a future of where fighting is considered normal,” says David Shearer

       What is most noticeable about this statement from David Shearer is that like a lot of Labour Party press statements it does not put any demands on our government to do anything. Nor does it commit the Labour Party to do anything.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1

         2 August 2014 at 8:23 am

         What is most noticeable about your comment is the way you don’t quote the beginning of the press release at all.

         I guess it doesn’t suit your agenda.

         The Greens are proposing that the Israeli ambassador be expelled, Mana are calling for a boycott and an end to special visa arrangements too.

         What are you proposing?
         • Tom Jackson 2.1.1.1.1

           2 August 2014 at 9:06 am

           NZ ought to cut off diplomatic relations with these racist animals.
         • Jenny 2.1.1.1.2

           2 August 2014 at 9:11 am

           @Anonymous Bloke. Your weak defence of Labour’s fence sitting has no substance and does not address the point I was making.

           I didn’t quote the first part of Shearer’s statement because it is self evident. And has been said many times by many people. I also didn’t give the full quote because the moderator generally frowns on people giving full quotes, and usually wants us to give the link to get the full quote. Which I did.

           But just for you Anonymous Bloke, I will put in the full quote and let the readers judge if it adds or subtracts anything from my point that Labour is refusing to commit themselves to do anything to stop this appalling slaughter.

           Unconditional Gaza ceasefire needed now

           by David Shearer on July 30, 2014

           The Israeli response in Gaza is disproportionate and with the firing of tanks and mortars into civilian areas, increasingly indiscriminate, says Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson David Shearer.

           “Eight children were killed in Gaza last night, they were playing in an area they believed to be safe.

           “Israel says that no normal state would tolerate rockets being fired into their civilian areas. They are right, Hamas rockets are also indiscriminate.

           “But it is also not normal for 1.6 million Palestinians to be blockaded into a narrow strip of land, a situation that aptly fits its description as the largest prison camp in the world.

           “Around 1,100 Gazans have now been killed, the overwhelming majority of them civilians. Fifty Israelis have been killed, three civilians and the remainder, soldiers.

           “There needs to be an immediate ceasefire, without conditions, to stop further unnecessary deaths. Both sides, without exception, need to stick to it. Only then can an ongoing settlement of the situation be arranged.

           “Pressure needs to be brought to bear by the US, UN, European Union and Arab States on both sides to stop.

           “That settlement must address the potential for future violence, but also the long term issues of the Gaza Strip.

           “Gaza has 40% unemployment, a collapsed economy, food shortages and an infrequent electricity supply that sees untreated sewage piped into the sea.

           “These conditions will inevitably sow the seeds for further conflict if they’re not resolved. Young people need hope, not a future of where fighting is considered normal,” says David Shearer.

           I presume this is the quote you wanted me to look at?

           The Question is Anonymous; Is it OK to identify something as appalling and call on others to do something about it but refuse to commit to do anything about it yourself?

           In effect David Shearer’s statement is meaningless and insincere. David Shearer might as well have not bothered. Just like David Shearer nor any other Labour Party official has ever bothered to take up the invitation by the organisers to address the large peace rallies that have been held every Saturday for the last three weeks, just in case they wind up having to commit themselves to something.

           The Greens are proposing that the Israeli ambassador be expelled, Mana are calling for a boycott and an end to special visa arrangements too.

           What are you proposing?

           One Anonymous Bloke

           I thought that was obvious. I am proposing that Labour stop their insincere handwringing and take up these demands too.
           • mickysavage 2.1.1.1.2.1

             2 August 2014 at 9:23 am

             You are moving the goalposts Jenny. Firstly you said:

             “What is most noticeable about this statement from David Shearer is that like a lot of Labour Party press statements it does not put any demands on our government to do anything. Nor does it commit the Labour Party to do anything.”

             Then when it was pointed out to you that you had weakened the intent of the Labour’s press release by cutting out the really grunt part you then demanded that Labour expel the Israeli diplomat.

             National is not responsible for what is happening in Gaza. Demanding they do something is not going to achieve anything.

             And expelling the Israeli diplomat? How would we then express our disgust at the innocent murder of women and children the next time it happens? Making Israel into an even more rogue state will not help.
             • David H …

               2 August 2014 at 10:07 am

               Maybe some sanctions aka Russia ? Oh that’s right the old Israeli’s own the American poolitical system. Israel, just gets it’s rich poolitical backers to ring up the local senator and threaten to take away their funding. Sanctions what sanctions? And when you are up against that, then only the outrage of billions of people will get them to stop. But when?
               • miravox …

                 3 August 2014 at 7:56 am

                 +1 David H

                 I did email Key’s office early on in the Gaza offensive to ask if we’re following the US lead rather than using any influence we may otherwise have as an independent nation a, that could maybe soften the Israeli determination to bomb the smithereens out of Gaza.

                 No reply as yet…. he’s good at the hand-wringing for the press, but.
             • Jenny …

               2 August 2014 at 10:47 am

               @mickysavage:

               Again with the thin defence and quibbling over Labour’s fence sitting.

               What “really grunt part” are you talking about? I have read this several times and can see no demand that Labour made on anyone that I left out in my first statement. The only demand that David Shearer made and I which I covered in the first line of my first quote of his words was this: ““Pressure needs to be brought to bear by the US, UN, European Union and Arab States on both sides to stop.”

               In my opinion a completely hollow demand, because how can we hope to influence these big powers if we refuse to do anything ourselves?

               What I have mentioned several times now and is the issue you still refuse to address is the point that Labour refuses to commit themselves to do anything or even demand that the current government do something. Instead you join open partisan bigots like grumpy attacking me with confused pedantic quibbles that don’t stack up.

               I think you need to back up your quibbling by quoting exactly what “really grunt part” I left out.
             • Jenny …

               2 August 2014 at 10:59 am

               “And expelling the Israeli diplomat? How would we then express our disgust at the innocent murder of women and children the next time it happens? Making Israel into an even more rogue state will not help.”

               mickysavage

               Come on Glen. Your argument doesn’t even make sense. The innocent murder of women and children is going on now!

               Your argument is the same “building bridges” argument that the Rugby Union and the Muldoon government used to justify links to the Apartheid regime of South Africa. It flies in the face of calls for an international boycott of this vicious and racist apartheid regime.
               • Jenny …

                 2 August 2014 at 11:09 am

                 oops sorry Greg typo
                 • Jenny …

                   2 August 2014 at 11:36 am

                   Look Greg to turn your crazy logic around if we expel the Israeli ambassador and cut diplomatic ties we can always reinstate them if they change. Just as we did with South Africa when that country rejected apartheid,. And they will have an incentive to do so. Especially if more and more countries join the international boycott against them.
                   • Jenny …

                     3 August 2014 at 5:59 am

                     ‘

                     Labour and National Party activists and politicians must have a much higher tolerance level for genocide than most people.

                     And expelling the Israeli diplomat? How would we then express our disgust at the innocent murder of women and children the next time it happens?

                     mickysavage

                     Most people would reject the murder of innocent women and children on the first instance.

                     Come on Greg you can be better than this.

                     Stand up to the extreme Right pressure in your own party.

                     Do what ever it takes. Demand in the strongest terms possible (either privately or publicly), that your party leader David Cunliffe make a statement promising to suspend diplomatic relations with Israel.
3. Rosie 3

   2 August 2014 at 8:24 am

   Political life of late has been eventful, exciting and at times fraught. For some it will get more intense as campaigning moves up a gear.

   It’s been a long time between weekend socials. It may be an ideal time for letting off steam or finding a tranquil place of relaxation (Tranquil may not be the most suitable word to describe a Standard post)

   Any authors have a moment in their busy lives to put our old familiar “time out” post up?
   • phillip ure 3.1

     2 August 2014 at 8:38 am

     here ya go rosie..

     ..i’ll kick it off..

     ..how about a live-stream of lollapalooza..happening now..?

     ..and over the next three days..?

     http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/aug/01/lollapalooza-livestream-arctic-monkeys-outkast-kings-of-leon
     • Rosie 3.1.1

       2 August 2014 at 9:16 am

       Good heads up phil.

       Well worth a visit as the the tourist brochures say. Will look into that this arvo – interested to see what the line up is.

       Part weekend social part open mike, my offering is a news flash for candidates: Cafes are not private places to hold campaign update and strategy meetings. (Tea tapes anyone?)

       Old flappy ears here was intrigued and amused that the nat candidate for Ohariu sat down behind me at a cafe yesterday and proceeded to tell his coffee buddy all the news of the nat campaign. I only got one paltry piece of interesting stuff.

       I was mostly frustrated because of two things: I have this social deafness thing going on where I can’t hear conversation where there is background noise such as other conversations and music and Mr R was trying to have a conversation with me, which I had to pay attention to.

       Theres most likely an old war propaganda poster about keeping conversations private because you never know when your enemy might be listening.
       • Rosie 3.1.1.1

         2 August 2014 at 9:21 am

         Oh, here’s one:

         http://anglotopia.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/carlesstalk.jpg
         • phillip ure 3.1.1.1.1

           2 August 2014 at 9:24 am

           and if you need a wknd-laff…this will do the trick..

           http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/01/sinner-top-10-guide-happiness-pope-francis
         • Rosie 3.1.1.1.2

           2 August 2014 at 9:38 am

           or zip it sweetie

           http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4fdb4ccaeab8ea1425000008-1200/zipp-it.jpg
   • Belladonna 3.2

     2 August 2014 at 9:35 am

     Quite agree Rosie, some weekend respite from war and elections would be relaxing. Maybe one of the mods would put the Weekend Social back.
     • Rosie 3.2.1

       2 August 2014 at 9:45 am

       Am going to be in town the same time as the Palestine solidarity rally today so will most likely attend that if the gales don’t put people off – but even so some “social” would definitely be welcome, along side the political.

       I’m balancing the intensity with music, big blasts of it at the end of the day!
   • bad12 3.3

     2 August 2014 at 9:49 am

     Rosie, i think ‘Weekend Social’ had so little patronage in the way of comments some weekends that a decision might have been made to ‘can’ it?,

     ‘Open Mike’ tho is for discussing ‘anything’ so i see no reason why, especially on the weekends, that stuff like the ‘gardening’, what we re reading, what we are eating, and, all the other bits and pieces that may have got an airing in ‘weekend social’ shouldn’t be discussed here,

     (Lolz, even when the odd commenter objects to our discussions of our eating habits, ok, Bank’s eating habits might be a bit over the top)…
4. Te Reo Putake 4

   2 August 2014 at 9:03 am

   Russell Brand has been putting out some rather witty dissections of the media on his Youtube channel.

   https://www.youtube.com/user/russellbrand

   One episode where he hilariously Fisked Fox news (w)anchor Sean Hannity has lead to a cross Atlantic tit for tat: http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014/aug/01/russell-brand-takes-on-sean-hannity-in-gaza-spat.

   They’re all rather good (and hat tip to Sable, who spotted them a couple of days ago).
   • phillip ure 4.1

     2 August 2014 at 9:10 am

     @ trp..

     ..ahem..!..@ whoar ‘a couple of days ago’..

     ..http://whoar.co.nz/2014/russell-brand-takes-down-sean-hannity-video/

     ..so often first with the best..that whoar..eh..?
     • Te Reo Putake 4.1.1

       2 August 2014 at 9:26 am

       In solidarity with the English language, I’m currently boycotting Whoar, Phil,
       • phillip ure 4.1.1.1

         2 August 2014 at 10:10 am

         may the glow of ignorance envelop you..

         ..back to the herald..eh..?

         ..heh..!..

         ..that’s some thin gruel there…
         • The Al1en 4.1.1.1.1

           2 August 2014 at 10:42 am

           “may the glow of ignorance envelop you..”

           Irony roflmao
   • vto 4.2

     2 August 2014 at 12:19 pm

     Fuck me, that Sean Hannity and Fox News is unbelievable.

     Next those extreme Americans will be holding Nuremberg type rallies

     Mad americans.

     Idiot americans

     Bastard americans
     • Once was Tim 4.2.1

       2 August 2014 at 1:00 pm

       You want to try relinquishing American (i.e. U.S.) citizenship! The Land of the Free just can’t cope nor understand why anyone would want to.
     • felix 4.2.2

       3 August 2014 at 11:12 am

       “Fuck me, that Sean Hannity and Fox News is unbelievable.”

       John Key disagrees. He says Fox News is a source of education.

       Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well, for one thing, thank goodness David Parker is watching Fox News, because he might learn something, as opposed to that lefty stuff he seems to be embroiled in normally.

       (Question 1, Wednesday November 14 2012)
5. bad12 5

   2 August 2014 at 9:20 am

   Armstrong, ever the National party toadie gives in His piece in today’s Granny Herald 101 reasons why NZFirst will opt for a coalition with National after the September election,

   Just as easily read as 101 reasons why the self respecting left leaning voter should not vote for NZFirst at the fast approaching ballot to find the next Government, Armstrong has failed to address the two points that will queer the pitch that He makes in an effort at back of the envelope possible coalition permutations,

   The first, election 2011 as the actual poll neared had the possibility talked up by the likes of Armstrong and the media polls of a National Party so fatted with votes it would have been able to form a Government in its own right,

   Enter the ‘strategic voter’, after Slippery the Prime Minister had effectively made a vote for NZFirst ‘safe’ by ruling Peters and NZFirst out of inclusion in any coalition, such ‘strategic voters’ took the side of NZFirst and the % of votes which brought NZFirst back from political oblivion while being ‘unmeasurable’ will again be crucial at election 2014,

   IF, we ascribe to NZFirst the 5% of the vote allocated by the recent Morgan poll as an accurate reading of the electorate, then subtract any old %, half a %, quarter of a %, however large or small the departing ‘tactical voters’ NZFirst enjoyed in 2011, and depart they will be en masse looking for that where their votes will ensure a Government of the left in September,

   Then there is one inescapable conclusion to be drawn, NZFirst will not enjoy 5% of the vote in September,

   Second, enter the Elephant in the room, admittedly a scrawny looking ‘beast’ with eyes best described as madly staring, the butt of everyone’s skeptical humor, who might, admittedly, albeit
   accidently, just be the lefts best friend at election 2014, Colon and the Conservatives,

   Busily campaigning in the heart of NZFirst’s turf, Grey-Power meetings, should, and this is said again using the latest Roy Morgan polling of NZFirst 5% as reference, should Colon’s Conservatives abscond with any small %, half %, quarter %, of the vote previously farmed from among the Grey-Power retiree demographic by Peters then NZFirst is i would suggest again, history,

   Armstrong is today delivering the ‘soothie’ of a done and dusted 2014 election, a foregone conclusion of a National/NZFirst coalition being the result, i would say ”only in your dreams John”, NZFirst are facing the shaky ground of an election result which matches that of 2008,

   InternetMana, the new kid on the block, an unknown electoral equation might just produce a 50% result for the left in September,

   Labour 33%, Greens 12%, InternetMana 5%, read like that are not a huge ask, those numbers tho in September would add up to a Government of the left, lets do it…
   • dv 5.1

     2 August 2014 at 9:38 am

     What Armstrong is arguing a vote for NZ1 is a vote for nats
     • bad12 5.1.1

       2 August 2014 at 9:57 am

       Aha, any Left leaning voter who is also a supporter of NZFirst should read the Armstrong piece in the NZHerald today and ask themselves how having a third term National Government propped up by NZFirst will sit with their left leaning ideals,

       According to Armstrong a vote for NZFirst is a definite vote for a National Government, there’s an easy fix to that…
       • The Al1en 5.1.1.1

         2 August 2014 at 10:41 am

         Since when do any of us listen to and take seriously what Armstrong has to say?
         • bad12 5.1.1.1.1

           2 August 2014 at 11:08 am

           Since when???, Armstrong tho isn’t addressing commenters here at the Standard is He…
           • The Al1en 5.1.1.1.1.1

             2 August 2014 at 11:21 am

             Point being that Armstrong is a tory schill and what ever he writes, the opposite should probably be believed.
   • Bearded Git 5.2

     2 August 2014 at 10:27 am

     Labour’s vote crumbling says Armstrong twice-23.5%, 24.9%, 26.5%, 26.7%, 28%, 30% has been Labour in the last 6 polls-spot a trend?

     My prediction remains 31/11/7=Cunliffe.

     But if necessary IMP and Greens can support Lab/NZF on confidence and supply.
     • The Al1en 5.2.1

       2 August 2014 at 10:52 am

       I think Labour and the Greens will score a bit higher and NZ1st won’t quite reach 7%
       • Bearded Git 5.2.1.1

         2 August 2014 at 11:10 am

         Allen-the 7% is IMP
         • The Al1en 5.2.1.1.1

           2 August 2014 at 11:22 am

           Not in my scenario 😉
           • marty mars 5.2.1.1.1.1

             2 August 2014 at 11:30 am

             Allen I think you may mean scarenario
         • marty mars 5.2.1.1.2

           2 August 2014 at 11:23 am

           Nice one BG 🙂
           • The Al1en 5.2.1.1.2.1

             2 August 2014 at 11:29 am

             Quelle surprise 😆
             • marty mars …

               2 August 2014 at 11:32 am

               consistent riser – just like IMP and the polls
               • The Al1en …

                 2 August 2014 at 11:34 am

                 Without kims illegal loot propping up the bar, not so much though.

                 The biggest laugh is still at your expense. If kim was backing Banks or ultra right wingers like act, again, you’d be all over it as a disgrace and buying politicians for cash etc…

                 Your principles must cost less than hh’s, ’cause you won’t even see a penny of it. 😆
                 • marty mars …

                   2 August 2014 at 11:54 am

                   🙄
                   • The Al1en …

                     2 August 2014 at 11:57 am

                     So imagine kdc setting up Rodney Hide in a new party to take down Cunliffe’s government – What do you do and say?

                     Yeah, you roll ’em, I’ll poke ’em. 😉
                   • marty mars …

                     2 August 2014 at 12:21 pm

                     imagine? don’t have to because I’m dealing with reality not second hand right wing spin like you. Do you look but not see, do you listen but not hear, do you touch but not feel, do you allen, do you? – riddle me that bud.
                   • The Al1en …

                     2 August 2014 at 12:27 pm

                     Right, so no serious contribution, mars. Fair do’s mate, but if kim was rodder’s king maker you like most, if not all, would be over it like a rash as dodgy millionaire buying politicians and you know it, even if it’s not expedient for you to say so.

                     Principled, oh yeah.
                   • bad12 …

                     2 August 2014 at 12:30 pm

                     Alien, don’t let rational thought get in the way of your little playschool fantasies will you,

                     Kim DotCom ISN’T attempting to prop up ACT or any other right wing absurdity is He so you are in fact dribbling drivel,

                     If DotCom’s coin helps deliver a Government of the left, that delivers actual left wing policy and outcomes to the country all power to Him i say,

                     30 years of Neo-liberal dominance of politics both on the left and right of the spectrum has to be broken somehow, if it takes the large Germans money to do just that then so be it…
                   • marty mars …

                     2 August 2014 at 12:40 pm

                     allen, regurgitating second hand right wing memes thinking they are original ‘serious’ ideas is so weak really. I just thought BG had it correct with IMP at 7% – get over it.

                     plus I agree with bad’s comment – we need to change the government and winnie is not the man for that job.
                   • The Al1en …

                     2 August 2014 at 12:47 pm

                     “Kim DotCom ISN’T attempting to prop up ACT or any other right wing absurdity is He so you are in fact dribbling drivel,”

                     “So imagine” was the lead in to the point.
                   • The Al1en …

                     2 August 2014 at 12:52 pm

                     “regurgitating second hand right wing memes thinking they are original ‘serious’ ideas is so weak really.”

                     It’s not a right wing meme as far as I’m aware, but even if it is, it’s a valid point to the legitimacy of hh grabbing at kims loot and your credibility in not opposing it, but being openly supportive. Like I said, other way round and you’d be apoplectic.
                     The ‘serious’ bit is you deflecting, to which I am aware of and subsequently not giving a rats arse over.

                     I just thought BG had it correct with IMP at 7% – get over it.

                     ” we need to change the government and winnie is not the man for that job.”

                     So says you, Bad and depending on which polls you read, 1 – 2.5% of kiwis.
                     But that’s the good thing about politics, kim buying influence aside, everyone, even minorities have a say.
                   • bad12 …

                     2 August 2014 at 12:53 pm

                     ”And don’t let rational thought get in the way of your playschool fantasies” was the lead into the part of my comment you reproduce Alien,

                     i do not need to ‘imagine’ DotCom backing ACT because it is glaringly obvious that He is not,

                     So debating your fantasies is pointless in the context of the election campaign, a deliberate attempt to derail what is being discussed Alien???…
                 • Clemgeopin …

                   2 August 2014 at 1:03 pm

                   Kim’s ‘illegal’ loot? Has that been proven? Do you know what ‘cloud’ storage is? Is cloud storage wide spread and is it illegal? Is so, tell that to thousands of such websites around the world, including YouTube.

                   KDC donated to Bank’s ‘mayoral’ election fund. Not to ACT. Banks wasn’t even in the ACT party at that time.
                   • The Al1en …

                     2 August 2014 at 1:11 pm

                     Go on, just for you – kim’s alleged illegal loot.

                     And Banks, that paragon of left wing politics. He bought what he paid for.
   • Clemgeopin 5.3

     2 August 2014 at 1:44 pm

     In my opinion NZF will cross the 5% threshold.

     A vote for NZF is not a GUARANTEE that NZF will DEFINITELY go with Key/National.

     Winston is a very astute, intelligent and crafty politician. He will grab votes from lots of his usual supporters, from lots of unhappy National supporters and from some soft Labour camp. Left, right and centre.

     On the Nation today, he has taken a vote attracting strong stand against sale of Kiwi land and property, including the Lochinver Station, to foreigners, thus gazumping Colin Craig’s cunning bound to fail foray into Winston’s political territory.

     Winston is one of the most masterly politician of this country. Don’t ever underestimate his ability and cleverness.

     I think he is more IN than OUT on Sept 20.
     But WHO he is in WITH is a 2c worth question, that no one really knows the answer to, including the high priest, Chief Matai Vaovasamanaia Winston !

     Watch what Winston says here:

     http://www.3news.co.nz/Govt-under-fire-over-Chinese-farm-bid/tabid/1607/articleID/355126/Default.aspx

     [P.S as an aside re Chief Matai Vaovasamanaia Winston: From an old report through Google:

     “It’s all a total surprise, I’ve been caught unawares here. I am totally unprepared for it,” Mr Peters told NZPA.

     ‘He was good humoured as local woman dressed him up to look more special for the occasion wrapping him in a woven mat skirt and adorning his head with a sequined band’.]
   • Clemgeopin 5.4

     2 August 2014 at 3:14 pm

     Yesterday I read a post in Standard by a writer who speculated that ACT might get 4%!

     ACT on 4%?!…..THAT would be the biggest political miracle of this century!
     Even Roger Douglas, Ruth Richardson and Don Brash would be turning in their graves!
6. Rodel 6

   2 August 2014 at 9:33 am

   Congratulations to Colin Craig for exposing the secretive sale of Lochinver Station.
   “..Craig who was shunned this week by by National revealed…..” (ChCh Press-Saturday) and
   He ..”took the fight to the National Party yesterday..”

   One wonders if he had not been shunned by National as superfluous or even damaging to it’s needs, would he have been so keen to take the fight to National -or would he have kept quiet.
   I think the latter. After all, what are friends for?
   • bad12 6.1

     2 August 2014 at 10:05 am

     Colon ”i beg you to believe me, we are not loonies”, the Conservative channels Winston Peters flaming the land ownership question into a quisling racist query,

     Not only is the ‘pinhead’ diving into Winston’s form of hate speech, He’s gone after NZFirst’s voter base with a series of addresses to Grey-Power,

     Both parties are now locked into a dance of death election struggle, Colon knows deep down He cannot win and will now attempt to take Peters and NZFirst with Him,

     National are standing on far shakier electoral ground then anyone is letting on to…
     • Bearded Git 6.1.1

       2 August 2014 at 10:32 am

       +1 bad. Colon was severely piss-taken on 7-Days last night. Worth a watch.
     • The Al1en 6.1.2

       2 August 2014 at 10:39 am

       Who told cc about the secret land sale?
       I’d bet it was on key’s say so, in the hope the conservatives pinch enough votes of NZ1st to snuff Winston out of post election talks with Labour and the Greens.
       • bad12 6.1.2.1

         2 August 2014 at 11:17 am

         Alien, it is unlike you to sound like you live a delusion from prior to 2008, a vote for Winston Peters is as likely to be a vote for National, at best a 50/50 gamble,

         As Peters will talk to National first it is obvious that should the numbers require it to, National will give Peters whatever large bauble He demands up to what i see as His opening demand, the Office of Prime Minister that is,

         Peters may have gone silent on His Green hatred recently but that is only to fool the lightweight thinkers who have previously voted for NZFirst,

         Is that you Alien, a lightweight thinker willing to gamble a vote for NZFirst isn’t a vote to prop up a third term National Govrnment…
         • The Al1en 6.1.2.1.1

           2 August 2014 at 11:27 am

           “As Peters will talk to National first”

           No indication of that Bad. Not saying it won’t happen, but it’s not been flagged thus far in this campaign.

           “National will give Peters whatever large bauble He demands”

           And DC, MT and RN won’t?

           “Is that you Alien, a lightweight thinker”

           I’d never be so modest or bold to confirm or deny.

           “willing to gamble a vote for NZFirst isn’t a vote to prop up a third term National Govrnment”

           I’m not voting NZ1st, and wouldn’t, and I can’t believe there are many Winston voters on here.
           • bad12 6.1.2.1.1.1

             2 August 2014 at 12:19 pm

             Not on planet Earth Alien?, or just putting forward bullshit as a point of debate, Winston Peters has repeatedly said He will talk to the Party that gains the most votes First after the election,

             Do i need provide a link that proves the above point???,

             Rather than a 50/50 gamble on which side of the political divide Peters will opt for, and, even should He opt for supporting Labour you then have to ask ”what’s the point” another Government of ”Business as Usual”???,

             The better 50/50 is to be rid of NZFirst, don’t worry Alien the ‘tactical voters’ and those who switch their votes from NZFirst to Colons Conservatives will do it for you without you even having to spend a moment of time in actual thought,

             That better 50/50 will be the chance of Labour/Green/InternetMana to then gather between them the vote to enable a left leaning Government to be formed without the sea-anchor of NZFirst holding it firmly in the grasp of ”Business as Usual” which despite all the flourishing rhetoric is where NZFirst ‘in Government’ has proven to be…
       • Clemgeopin 6.1.2.2

         2 August 2014 at 1:59 pm

         That tactic from Key, if true, would be a double edged sword and quite stupid because it could enrage the general public sentiment against Key and Nats including from the Nats, which might actually take away more soft or patriotic votes from National towards Labour, Greens, NZF or the Cons.

         So, no, I doubt they ‘fed’ or ‘asked Collin’ to make this huge sale an issue. some one disgruntled with Key or someone patriotic may have, though
7. phillip ure 7

   2 August 2014 at 10:46 am

   steven joyce channeled muldoon..again…on the nation..

   ..he should go to thailand..and get some plastic-surgery..

   ..a dimple/chin-implant..

   ..that..and a bit of voice-coaching..

   ..and he will become muldoon…

   ..and he is likely the next leader of the tories..(!)

   ..arrogance on a stick…

   ..the perception of this govt being arrogant and out of touch..and uncaring..

   ..and now that the asset-stripping has been completed..

   ..an idea-free zone..

   ..is all further embedded in..

   ..thank you mr joyce..
   • Hami Shearlie 7.1

     2 August 2014 at 11:09 am

     He was unbelievable wasn’t he? Not content with talking over Grant Robertson’s every word and constantly sneering, he then proceeded to talk over the host Lisa Owen, who couldn’t even get him to shut up when she was announcing they were taking a break! What a boor and a bully, it was very like his behaviour every week on Newstalk ZB with Annette King! He is the personification of an uncouth bully! Bye-Bye to ever being National Party Leader, Mr Joyce!
     • dv 7.1.1

       2 August 2014 at 11:23 am

       Seems that they need to start turning their microphone off.
       • Clemgeopin 7.1.1.1

         2 August 2014 at 2:14 pm

         I thought that too!…But then the public will miss seeing what sort of lying crooks and idiots these rich prick Nat RWNjobs actually are!
       • phillip ure 7.1.1.2

         2 August 2014 at 4:57 pm

         @ dv..

         ..nah..!..i wd rather their hubris hangs out in the open…for all to see…
     • phillip ure 7.1.2

       2 August 2014 at 11:32 am

       and his bullying of/ignoring of/talking over of/mansplaining all over..lisa owen…

       ..wouldn’t have done a lot to shore-up support for national amongst women..

       ..you’d think..?
     • blue leopard 7.1.3

       2 August 2014 at 12:30 pm

       +1 Hami Shearlie

       I thought Robertson did well in what was a difficult interview (due to Mr Joyce’s complete lack of courtesy).

       It was good to see Robertson fighting back.

       That Act candidate from Epsom conducted himself in a similarly bulldozing ‘wall-of-words’ way a few weeks ago.

       What is it with the right-wing and their complete lack of respect? These are not people who are capable of governing a country with a wide view to the interests of many. I really don’t know why anyone would vote for such boors.
       • The Pink Postman 7.1.3.1

         3 August 2014 at 1:47 pm

         Right-Wing means Tory and as the old but true saying goes “There is only one good Tory ”
         I will leave al mthe elderly Lefties to finish it off.
     • Anne 7.1.4

       2 August 2014 at 5:00 pm

       Oh I don’t know… the Right like bullies. That’s why you’ve got two bullies vying for the Nat. leadership. They’re supporters equate bullying with strength.
   • Once was Tim 7.2

     2 August 2014 at 1:06 pm

     He’ll need plastic surgery on his ball sak if he keeps it up (horrible thought I know and I’m not sure how many micro-surgeons are available), but obviously something had the squeeze on – he was damn near squealing.
   • Clemgeopin 7.3

     2 August 2014 at 2:11 pm

     I LIKED the way Joyce debated today, like in a street brawl, shouting, being stupid, arrogant, being a twit, like a drunken lousy lout and not letting the other smaller guy talk. All good, I say, because the rest of the audience in the country saw what I saw too !
   • Clemgeopin 7.4

     2 August 2014 at 4:18 pm

     For those who did not see The Nation programme today,

     Watch
     the Jabbering Joker Joyce, here!
     http://www.3news.co.nz/Debate-Grant-Robertson-and-Steven-Joyce-on-the-wealth-of-the-nation/tabid/1348/articleID/355158/Default.aspx

     Enjoy! You are welcome!
     • karol 7.4.1

       2 August 2014 at 5:05 pm

       Well, Robertson did interrupt quite a bit from the beginning of the discussion as well. Joyce, though, was arrogant and sneering and into the more personal type of insults, and he did go on with his spin a lot.

       Joyce will never win a charm offensive.
8. Bearded Git 8

   2 August 2014 at 11:12 am

   Sounds like he has the perfect qualifications Hami
   • Hami Shearlie 8.1

     2 August 2014 at 12:49 pm

     Maybe for other uncouth boors – women don’t like that kind of man however! People with good policies and good arguments don’t need to talk over others!
     • Bearded Git 8.1.1

       2 August 2014 at 3:49 pm

       Sorry Hami-it was meant to be sarcasm
9. Chooky 9

   2 August 2014 at 11:23 am

   ‘BLOG WATCH: Realising what Pundit Blog and Phil Quin are’

   By Martyn Bradbury / August 2, 2014

   “It was a recent farcical column by ‘Labour Party activist’ Phil Quin that suddenly helped me understood what Pundit Blog actually was – it’s the unofficial blog for the right wing of the Labour Party…

   • See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/02/blog-watch-realising-what-pundit-blog-and-phil-quin-are/#sthash.iz1CEWyz.dpuf
10. marty mars 10

    2 August 2014 at 11:46 am

    Witty article on whyte – toby is good at this

    Does he mind this line of questioning? Not at all, he says. “I want to know who the person is that I’m voting for. People should identify who they are … the question is, where to draw the line.”

    Where would he draw the line? “I’ll give you a perfectly good example. You can’t ask me about my sex life. You can’t ask me what I get up to in my bedroom. I don’t think that’s anyone’s business.”

    Okay. What does he get up to in his bedroom? A pause. “Read books. Read philosophy books.”

    and this was funny

    Whether it’s stage-managing a picture in a bar or discussing philosophical stances on incest, he just can’t be properly honest any more, can he?

    A long pause. “Ah, yeah. That is the worst aspect of it. That is the bit – that’s the most potentially painful aspect of it. And I need to find a way of handling that efficiently. So. Richard Prebble [now Act campaign manager] suggested that the right way to think about it was: you ask me an opinion as a philosopher, but I don’t have any opinions as a philosopher any more. I’m the leader of the Act Party. I may have those opinions, but they’re not coming out … I don’t think that’s completely corrupt.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2014/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503581&objectid=11302751

    unplugged indeed – although this week i have felt some sympathy for him – he reminds me of blinkingDon in the headlights.

    More, more, more weirdos into politics please – they make it interesting and sieve effectivelly plus we are all a bit weirder than we would like people to think imo
11. vto 11

    2 August 2014 at 11:58 am

    I see the Russians are planning to train and arm the Cuban and Mexican defence forces.

    And the yanks aren’t going to do anything about it.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/10341050/US-to-train-and-arm-Ukraine-army
    • Grumpy 11.1

      2 August 2014 at 3:27 pm

      What about Canada?
12. dave brown 12

    2 August 2014 at 12:14 pm

    A couple of outstanding comments on current global chaos

    Michael Roberts Blog on a 1937 redux (i.e. forget 1914). http://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2014/08/01/the-risk-of-another-1937/
    and
    James Petras on the global Chaos and where it leads (socialism or death).
    http://t.co/S42GjR1AOT
13. disturbed 13

    2 August 2014 at 12:19 pm

    Tom Jackson , good call.
    “NZ ought to cut off diplomatic relations with these racist animals.”

    We ought to also cut off diplomatic relations with these racist animals in (Natz) National Party also.

    Especially those scheming pundits, Joyce is the tall poppy here as campaigning for National that are using TVNZ as a pubic funded Nazi style (Goebbels circa 1933) propaganda whitewashing machine against opposition parties.

    Did Joyce study Goebbels? They were similar lovers of media power.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/…locaust/goebbels.html

    The latest example is using the outspoken NATZ Mike Hoskings at a moderator during the TVNZ leaders debate, while Hoskings is yesterday on media putting the boot into David Cunliffe yet again.

    There is something deeply ROTTEN with TVNZ. They are now no more than a tightly-integrated cog in the National Party
    Evidence of National meddling in our press freedom has been raised on this blog before in 2012 and other times so we are now seeing the raw effect this election with Joyce’s fingers all over it.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/national-continues-attacks-on-media-freedom/

    Like Hitler did with Goebbels the Key/Joyce club is replicating the same model today.

    Next we will loose all traces of democracy and free speech altogether, as they cuddle up with TPPA, five eyes global surveillance and Bilderberg also of course?

    Key has been to the highly secretive Global elitist power hungry control group called “The Bilderberg Group”.

    Key was once apparently in attendance already as he was on the 2012 invitation list, but refuses to acknowledge involvement with this fascist regime born by the NAZI Party in late 1943 when NAZI power was diminishing.
    Why is our PM on this list? maybe Mike Moore could tell us eh?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bilderberg_participants#New_ Zealand

    Nasty friends the NATZ have eh!
    My Son in Germany says the NAZI are on the rise again.

    What have we got to loose say the Nat’s’?

    I think its called “democracy” you know the thing we all went to war over time and time again, and many of our brave never came home?.

    And now again it seems we are fighting a home battle, so why do these neo-liberals think they can take our liberty free press & free to air TVNZ voice away and democracy away without any law invoked as yet?
    Perhaps that is the secret next law change if they get back in, make it a criminal offense to speak against the Government.

    Didn’t they use force to close down the “Occupy wall street protest group” by enacting a law against them and using the police? Maybe we have lost democracy and freedom already now and just don’t realise it?
    • anker 13.1

      2 August 2014 at 3:18 pm

      http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/television-new-zealand-calling-to-have-mike-hosking-dropped-from-moderatingthe-political-debates#share

      Yes Mike Hoskings post is over on the The Daily Blog. Critical of Cunliffe, but denies bias! FFS.

      I am resurrecting this petition. We now have close to 5000 signatures, so that’s too good to waste. I know the issue has gone a bit quiet, but I think we need to keep going. Please sign and circulate. I know Cunliffe has said he has accepted Hoskings, which was the right call, I think we need to give TVNZ and the other msm who are bias, the clear message that we see through it and we will protest against it.

      On the same note, I went to Parliament for the last session for the year. I admit, I didn’t stay for the full session, but I saw Claire Trevitt and co in the Press Gallery and when I read her commentary I was gobsmacked. The most notable omission of Meteria clearly and persistently challenging Bill English on child poverty and Bill giving disgraceful, non answers……….Shame on you Bill. To think you are a practicing Catholic.
      • anker 13.1.1

        2 August 2014 at 3:29 pm

        http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/08/01/you-wont-believe-mike-hoskings-latest-column/

        This is the post I referred to in my comment above urging people to sign the petition.
14. Draco T Bastard 14

    2 August 2014 at 1:36 pm

    Mass immigration could see water shortages, failing hospitals – and we won’t feel richer, says Civitas

    The report from Civitas found that large-scale immigration will have a negative effect on standards of living as any economic benefits will be outweighed by pressures

    The usual conflating of financials with economics. Basically, lots of people make it easier to have lots of money but the economic strain placed upon the countries resources make it economically negative.
15. Morrissey 15

    2 August 2014 at 3:23 pm

    Media Bias for Israel Masks Israeli Aggression against Palestinians

    The comments by the vicious and ignorant hosts at CNN will be familiar to anyone who has endured the comments of Jim Mora and his befuddled Panelists over the last three weeks….
    

    As for the thick American talkback host Mark Levin: I’m not sure if he reminds me more of Leighton Smith or Larry “Lackwit” Williams…..
    
16. Weepus beard 16

    2 August 2014 at 7:04 pm

    The prime minister today called the NZ public liars today, and I quote, “there’s a perception amongst…ahhh…the public at large that politicians…ah…mislead people and akshully it’s not true”.

    Note he spread the load to all politicians instead of just himself which is what the question put to him was about.

    That’s it, I’m not voting for this guy, he just called me a liar.

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