Open mike 02/11/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 2nd, 2012 - 89 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

89 comments on “Open mike 02/11/2012 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    2 November 2012 at 6:26 am

    In Obama’s first address since Superstorm Sandy given before a technology group. And in the candidates first political stoush since the disaster on the East Coast halted the election campaign.

    Obama misses his chance to put the election in the bag. By not putting a stake in the ground over Climate Change. In doing so Obama gave Romney an opening to attack his technology strategy by claiming that private industry could do it better.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/7894223/Obama-and-Romney-outline-technology-policies

    What if instead of ignoring Climate Change Obama had said that his government would be spearheading the technology necessary to combat Climate Change. How could Romney respond to that?

    He would have been gobsmacked.

    Obama could have gone even further and delivered his version of a 21st Century Technology Ghettysburg address, a modern inspiring we will fight them on the beaches type speech to tackle the near and present danger posed by Climate Change. He undoubtably has the skills. Why he chooses not to use them I don’t know.

    Oh dear. As both candidates in seeming partnership continue to stoically ignore the debate to be had over climate change, even when it is jammed in their pathway, disrupting their planed campaigns. My feeling is, the first candidate who takes a chance after this disaster and has the courage to break the strained silence, over climate change will capture the attention of the nation and the world. Let Romney or Obama make their case. Is Sandy a harbinger of Climate Change or not? Either for or against, let’s hear them.

    Instead, why is this election being conducted like a tired uninspired slow motion palindrome, or shadow fight, avoiding all the major issues even when like Sandy it is thrust in their faces?

    In seems though the transmission of this farce had been temporarily halted by the intrusion of reality. Transmission as usual has been resumed.

    What a joke. My guess, the electorate uninspired by either candidate, turn out will be down. And as a small turn out favours the right wing die hards. Romney will be handed an undeserved win.

    I hope I am wrong. And it is not too late and Obama can lift his so far insipid campaign to reach out to the American voters to inspire and challenge them.

    • Colonial Viper 1.1
      2 November 2012 at 7:47 am

      Touting for Obama this is funny.

      Not only did the man keep Guantanamo Bay open, but has greatly extended the reach of warrantless wiretapping and communications intercepts, guaranteed the banks multibillion dollar bail outs while millions of Americans have been thrown out of their homes, and made standard practice the weekly use of unaccountable, non judicial drone assassinations in any foreign country of his chosing.

      I guess you could tout for Obama on the basis that, despite the above, “he would be a bit better than Romney” but it really is hard to see how.

    • Bill 1.2
      2 November 2012 at 9:22 am

      Climate change is an ‘inconvenient’ reality and the ‘cult of the individual’ a convenient and powerful myth. Put the two together and you get zero action on climate change because in that prevalent (or at least powerful) world view there cannot be an underlying systemic cause.

      ie. Climate change may well be (read: is.) caused by CO2. But it is individuals who choose to live in ways that contribute to CO2 emmissions. And ‘unfortunately’ that frame of reference determines that government, industry or whatever are necessarily and quite correctly invisible and powerless.

      • Colonial Viper 1.2.1
        2 November 2012 at 10:48 am

        Energy use and economic activity are intimately intertwined. Most people in Auckland at work today could not have made it to their work place without the direct use of fossil fuels.

        If you want to reduce fossil fuel use you have to reduce economic activity – or at the very least, achieve a ‘steady state’ economy.

        NO ONE wants to do this, not even the Prius buying, carbon offsetting, vegetarian eating progressive Hollywood movie star types.

        • Bill 1.2.1.1
          2 November 2012 at 12:14 pm

          I wouldn’t say that no-one wants to do this (reduce economic activity…or at least, superfluous and/or harmful economic activity).

          But my point was that when the dominant world view sees the interaction between people as naturally and principly market based, then there is no room to take any systemic factors into account.

          So (for example) there is no compulsion to have a job (it’s a natural choice). And there are no froms of conditioning shaping peoples’ fears/desires. It’s all rational and free choice being exercised on an individual level….the sum totals of which deliver us a natural, market based human environment.

          And in such an environment, there is no place for interference from government or whatever, as that would skew the rational and natural freedoms we deliver back to ourselves by living within a market context.

          A crock of shit, obviously. But it’s sitting at the center of the mind set of today’s elites and power brokers. And so the market will solve climate change. Meaning, we’re fucked

          Unless…

          • PlanetOrphan 1.2.1.1.1
            2 November 2012 at 12:19 pm

            True M8, twist and confuse language until it’s meaningless, then keep on with their self centred evil agendas.

        • aerobubble 1.2.1.2
          2 November 2012 at 1:29 pm

          Many people cycle globally. Many people live close to where they work. Really its only in the past a hundred years that we could commute for an 1hr at 50km/hr. The question for NZ, will NZ wake up to itself and re-plan its cities and towns properly and provide the incentives (money returns) to those that change their behavior. I get no extra financial benefit for using a bicycle, in fact I subsidies car use at the super market as I don’t use their petrol vouchers, I pay rates but rarely use the buses, and would love to travel more but public transport is competitive to car use not to low income accessibility.

          • PlanetOrphan 1.2.1.2.1
            2 November 2012 at 1:52 pm

            Employ teenager’s to run rick shaws so us ageing cripples can still get to the supermarket ….
            St John Cardiac revival stands at the side of the road coz those Gnats’ are still in “charge” ….

            “Clear M8!” zzzzzzz thud
            (horse shit splatter everywhere as you convulse)
            “Here u go, on ur bike M8! 😀 “

            • PlanetOrphan 1.2.1.2.1.1
              2 November 2012 at 2:13 pm

              $100 Fine in the mail the week after for contributing to “Clydesdale Emission Visibility in the workplace”
              Should get me a clydesdale I think as I attach the cardiac sleep reviver ….
              zzzzzz thud …. off to work M8! 😀

  2. Logie97 2
    2 November 2012 at 7:49 am

    There are just some occasions in the daily scheme of things where you cannot apply the capitalist theory to basic human needs. Catering for contingencies when the money men would say, too expensive or not needed in the now.

    What a shame such foresight as that given in the “Wise men of Gotham” is not compulsory reading in schools. Instead, “Financial Literacy” is the new meme.

    Instances …
    Who were and why were the Tolpuddle martyrs significant?
    Why did London build a surge tide barrier?

    • prism 2.1
      2 November 2012 at 9:28 am

      Refresh memory or learn about the Tolpuddle Martyrs – Wikipedia has a coverage on it that matches with a researched book I have read. These men were so steadfast in their purpose of improving the grinding conditions of their agricultural employment. And the Anglican Church and the landowners, gentry and judiciary were united against them and sent them to Australia to serve their sentences in harsh conditions.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolpuddle_Martyrs

  3. ianmac 3
    2 November 2012 at 8:41 am

    The new Mega storage website being built by Kim Dotcom is interesting because it will block everyone, including Kim from the contents in storage. Ironic really because the original storage allowed access to recording studios and movie companies in order to track illegal usage. Now Kim is in effect saying you guys cheated by closing me down and prosecuting me so now my new site will block everyone except the encrypted user. Take that!

    David Fisher in the Herald: “As well as distancing itself from the US, the Mega website had also promised to distance its creators from future claims of copyright infringement. It was being built with “on the fly” encryption which would lock users’ files behind an impenetrable code away from those running Mega – and anyone policing the internet.” (Good stuff coming from David Fisher.)
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10844504

    • deuto 3.1
      2 November 2012 at 9:46 am

      I have been following the development of the new site with interest via Dotcom’s Twitter feed despite being a complete ignoramous about these things. Wired did two detailed articles last week, one on the new site at a level I could understand and the other an extended interview covering Dotcom’s account of the raid. These can be viewed via http://www.kim.com/

      Links to the Wired articles are also available through the Twitter feed but a long way down now. There are lots of other links on the Twitter feed to other news reports on the new site (eg Washington Post) .

      http://twitter.com/KimDotcom

      The feed also gives some insight into Dotcom, his personality and sense of humour – eg one of his latest – “All FBI agents pressing reload hahaha….. We see their IP addresses. LOL!!!”

      His love for Mona and his children also comes through with some beautiful photos on the feed.

      • Lanthanide 3.1.1
        2 November 2012 at 9:58 am

        Kit Dotcom is interesting in that he has been very blatant about coming to live in NZ because he thinks it will be a life-raft in the coming years.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1
          2 November 2012 at 10:51 am

          We’re going to have to upgrade the NZDF significantly.

          • Lanthanide 3.1.1.1.1
            2 November 2012 at 11:29 am

            Probably the best outcome is for Aus to annex us. Whether or not the Aus military can stand up to the foreign powers is another thing, I guess.

            • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1.1
              2 November 2012 at 12:24 pm

              It’s possible for us to produce a defensive system that will hold off all invaders. Lots of R&D needed but the result will actually be fairly cheap. Armed forces really only get expensive when you want to project power.

              • Colonial Viper …
                2 November 2012 at 12:36 pm

                Fortress New Zealand 🙂

                • PlanetOrphan …
                  2 November 2012 at 12:43 pm

                  I used too call it the “Reserve army”, but that got Tama Iti and friends in prison.
                  I told them to be licensed, bit them on the arse that one…. sorry M8’s.
                  I really don’t think they should be in prison for trying to give their kids a bit of “fighting spirit”

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    2 November 2012 at 4:21 pm

                    We need a few more NZ kids to have that Kiwi fighting spirit. Not the bow down and be sheeple spirit.

              • Lanthanide …
                2 November 2012 at 1:37 pm

                Sorry, but you also think it’s possible for NZ to produce our own CPUs instead of just doing what we’re good at and trading for them, so I don’t put a lot of stock in your ideas of what is ‘possible’ or ‘reasonable’ for NZ to produce.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  2 November 2012 at 3:18 pm

                  We can, it’s just a factory utilising NZ resources. If you don’t believe that then you’re as delusional as Key and so I really don’t give a fuck what you think.

                  EDIT:
                  How Silicon Chips Are Made
                  We have the resources and we could easily find the 20k people needed to competitively research and design the chips.

                  • TheContrarian …
                    2 November 2012 at 3:34 pm

                    “If you don’t believe that then you’re as delusional as Key and so I really don’t give a fuck what you think.”

                    Basically: If you don’t agree with me then fuck you.

                    There’s that winning attitude.

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      2 November 2012 at 3:37 pm

                      wotta bout all these personal attacks springing up all over The Standard mmm?

                      [lprent: The policy is (my italics):-

                      What we’re not prepared to accept are pointless personal attacks, or tone or language that has the effect of excluding others. We are intolerant of people starting or continuing flamewars where there is little discussion or debate. This includes making assertions that you are unable to substantiate with some proof (and that doesn’t mean endless links to unsubstantial authorities) or even argue when requested to do so.

                      So when moderating the moderators don’t notice personal attacks unless they can’t see a point being made in them, the language gets too much a part of the message or they judge them as initiating or sustaining a flamewar.

                      The reason for this is because the stated objective of the site is to have robust debate rather than polite debate (try Public Address). It means we don’t try to stop people from being bruised when others get stuck into them and their arguments.

                      It does tend to lose a few people – but we also gain from people wanting to have some frank disagreements. It also tends to be cyclic and peak up on the odd occassion.

                      But so far the policy has steadily increased our audience. So we have never had to review it (and are unlikely to do so in this current peak). ]

                    • TheContrarian …
                      2 November 2012 at 3:38 pm

                      Welcome to The Standard

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      2 November 2012 at 4:32 pm

                      Nope. I actually said why I didn’t agree with him and as that comes down to actual physical reality then his belief and what he says from that belief really is meaningless.

                    • TheContrarian …
                      2 November 2012 at 4:36 pm

                      Some of your beliefs seem bizarre and delusional to others.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      2 November 2012 at 8:04 pm

                      They’re quite welcome to put up a valid critique but merely saying that we should continue with what we’re good at proclaims that that is a) already known and b) that everybody wants to do whatever it is. In NZ’s case it’s quite often farming.

                      People making such claims seem to miss the fact that a) Farming doesn’t really employ that many people and b) that not everybody wants to be a farmer anyway. They also seem to miss the fact that when they say that we shouldn’t do something or even try to do something different that the industry already exists and happens to be quite successful in NZ. Electronics is one example, pharmaceuticals is another.

                      As far as making CPUs goes all we need is the mines to get the raw material, the processing facilities to process that raw material and the factory which produces the chips. Build those and NZ will be able to produce CPUs and many other ICs. We already have the educational facilities to support them. What we don’t have is the political support as that’s been relegated to the free-market capitalists.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      2 November 2012 at 8:09 pm

                      Get an ARM licence and some cheap old 90nm chip making equipment and you’re all set.

                      Not quite Core i7 competitive, but it’ll still beat a 80286.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      2 November 2012 at 8:29 pm

                      We could just have some of our bright sparks design an ARM compatible chip set. You know, start off the way AMD did in making x86 CPUs. They could also design x86 64 CPUs as well. The factory would be able to make all of them after all and I see no reason to go to 90nm when 45nm is getting old.

                      Licensing works to but we’d really want 32nm for that and then make AMD/Intel CPUs.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      2 November 2012 at 8:38 pm

                      Nah mate you’re getting in over your head here.

                      We’ll never be granted an x86 licence, and we wouldn’t have to design our own ARM compatible chipset, we just licence one from ARM.

                      And you never ever ever go with the latest manufacturing node unless you have money to burn in an incinerator and the ability to hire teams of $200K pa production engineers.

                      Resilient systems mean systems well off the bleeding edge for which the parts and the expertise are ubiquitous. 90nm allows you to produce very advanced low power IC’s and CPUs – everything that you need to run a country on and then some. Further, that manufacturing node is barely 10 years old, but you can pick up equipment and parts for it for next to nothing.

                      You still appear to be stuck on the idea that we can have the latest and greatest without realising that it is a very very fragile place to be. Just try replacing a battery or a screen on an iPhone 5 to see what I mean.

                  • Rogue Trooper …
                    2 November 2012 at 3:54 pm

                    ya know? we have heaps and heaps of Terry Pratchitt books laying around here
                    🙂

                    • lprent …
                      2 November 2012 at 4:08 pm

                      There were exactly two authors that survived the big book purge two months ago when I shifted to ePub’s and offloaded a large number of large boxes of paperbacks. Terry Pratchett and Ursula Le Guin.

                      Lyn required them for her “decorative” book collection (I was all for getting rid of the paper entirely). 🙂

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      2 November 2012 at 4:18 pm

                      I looked at some of Ursula Le Guins’ work some time ago; interesting serendipities all round considering, engineering analogies and all that. So Cameron Slater is a professed “Christian” aye?
                      ..just when you thought you had seen it all Clare!

                    • lprent []
                      2 November 2012 at 5:29 pm

                      IMO: The Dispossessed was the best that she has done to date. But she has seldom written a dud. But it sometimes takes a while to grow into being able to grok some of her books. Like the six Earthsea books which I tended to view as trivial until I’d read some of the crap that was fantasy and realized how fantastic her ones were.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      2 November 2012 at 4:23 pm

                      Ursula Le Guin. Nice. Frank Herbert didn’t make the cut?

                    • lprent []
                      2 November 2012 at 4:57 pm

                      These were Lyn’s choices for books she wanted out of my collection. Joins all of the lit, poetry, and assorted series of books she has. The thought of moving the books again and finding bookcases was just as disconcerting as always, and this time electronic books were a lot more attractive.

                      Frank Herbert is in a set of ePub’s. I only shifted after I’d managed to get most of the books I was interested in keeping as ePub’s. So I dropped from several thousand paperbacks to a pile of ePubs getting rid of the trash on the way through and adding in a pile of stuff out of the pulps.

                      But I notice that since we moved, Lyn has only purchased about 5 paper books (for a total of about $5 in a sale), but has been reading a lot of new material in the kindle app. As I said paper books are largely wall decorations these days 😈

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      2 November 2012 at 4:32 pm

                      You been reading all the links of interest too Viper?

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      2 November 2012 at 5:07 pm

                      Some mate, some 🙂

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    2 November 2012 at 9:56 pm

                    We’ll never be granted an x86 licence


                    And that would be why my AMD x86 64 says Made in Taiwan on it.

                    Oh, wait, no it wouldn’t. Most of the CPUs in existence aren’t made by the actual company that designed them but by other companies contracted to make them.

                    and we wouldn’t have to design our own ARM compatible chipset, we just licence one from ARM.

                    No, we wouldn’t have to but you don’t learn anything by simply producing what someone else has designed.

                    And you never ever ever go with the latest manufacturing node unless you have money to burn in an incinerator and the ability to hire teams of $200K pa production engineers.

                    /facepalm

                    Money isn’t an issue and high paying jobs is part of the goal.

                    90nm allows you to produce very advanced low power IC’s and CPUs

                    And 32nm lets you produce even lower power and more advanced CPUs while using less of the scarce resources used to make them. The technology is essentially the same so it’s really not going to make any difference to the reliability.

                    You still appear to be stuck on the idea that we can have the latest and greatest without realising that it is a very very fragile place to be. Just try replacing a battery or a screen on an iPhone 5 to see what I mean.

                    No it’s not as factories don’t get made until most of the bugs are ironed out and if we could produce those here getting hold of them would be a lot easier.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      2 November 2012 at 10:23 pm

                      Yeah sorry you’re off your rocker all the way through here Draco.

                      You are correct in so far as knowing that AMD no longer manufactures their own CPUs. But you misunderstand the nature of contract manufacturing: the foundaries that AMD uses to fabricate it’s CPUs make those chips under instruction and on behalf of AMD.

                      None of those foundaries hold their own x86 licenses and none of them have x86 design capability. None can independently design, make or market their own x86 CPUs.

                      Only three firms in the world hold x86 licenses, and none of them are NZ companies.

                      Bottom line – you’re trying to construct a future world with all the bright shiny technological things that you’ve been promised. Its not going to happen like that. NZ could do very well with say 90nm fab technology for internal use, and then we have to move on to covering off other pressing needs. There’s no time, money or advantage to try and play with more advanced nodes. Why would you. You can easily run all the infrastructure of a major country on Pentium II’s and III’s.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      2 November 2012 at 10:28 pm

                      And 32nm lets you produce even lower power and more advanced CPUs while using less of the scarce resources used to make them.

                      You’ve absolutely lost the plot here.

                      32nm and smaller nodes require far greater investment in energy, plant, machinery and refinement of materials compared to older nodes. The purity of silicon materials and even clean room facilities required to manufacture at 32nm and 22nm is a quantum leap ahead of that required for say 90nm manufacture.

                      The embodied energy requirements of advanced fabs is massive and increases almost exponentially with every node (I know that the cost does).

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      2 November 2012 at 11:57 pm

                      None can independently design, make or market their own x86 CPUs.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_x86_manufacturers

                      It’s been happening for a long, long time and there’s nothing stopping anyone from designing their own x86 based chips now. It’s how AMD started their x86 line.

                      Why would you.

                      For R&D. May be able to run infrastructure on Pentium IIs but R&D and other applications require far more computing power.

                      32nm and smaller nodes require far greater investment in energy, plant, machinery and refinement of materials compared to older nodes. The purity of silicon materials and even clean room facilities required to manufacture at 32nm and 22nm is a quantum leap ahead of that required for say 90nm manufacture.

                      Energy for refinement I can understand. All the rest will be comparable. Those Pentium II/IIIs used something like 100w of power, my AMD dual core uses about the same amount but is far more powerful. The latest AMD 8 cores still use ~100w. What this means is that you can do far more with a modern 32nm CPU with the same power usage and it’s the final power usage that’s important not the energy used to make the CPUs which really will be comparable to the 90nm.

                      There’s no time, money or advantage to try and play with more advanced nodes.

                      Yes there is if we start soon enough.

                      No, I’m not off my rocker. If I was neither AMD nor Intel nor anyone else would be looking to make 32nm and 22nm fabrication plants. And NZ is a better place to make them because we already have a huge amount of renewable energy and can easily increase that to 100%. Energy to run factories in NZ is not a problem.

                    • PlanetOrphan …
                      3 November 2012 at 10:05 am

                      With the advance of 3d printing tech, you could print a chip out @ home.
                      All you’d need is a “Vacuum” print head/enclosure, and some silicon ink.

                      Who owns that patent again ?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      3 November 2012 at 1:21 pm

                      To be honest, I don’t everyone having such a 3D printing device would be all that efficient. Having them available to everyone on the other hand is and that’s generally where I’m going when I say that the government should be the one financing and building the factories.

          • kiwicommie 3.1.1.1.2
            2 November 2012 at 3:27 pm

            The NZDF could go back to making it’s own weapons and bullets (maybe even sell them to other nations) rather just buying the cheap knock offs. Plus it would be a better idea to invest in the latest gear, better to have a small quality defense force than one where the equipment is dangerous and gets New Zealanders killed i.e. helicopter crashes, vehicle crashes and faulty navy ships.

            • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.2.1
              2 November 2012 at 8:15 pm

              Yep, we could do with our own small arms, munitions and explosives industry.

  4. Draco T Bastard 4
    2 November 2012 at 10:47 am

    Well, at least one magazine seems to have got it more or less right. This is the cover and this is the article.

    An unscientific survey of the social networking literature on Sandy reveals an illuminating tweet (you read that correctly) from Jonathan Foley, director of the Institute on the Environment at the University of Minnesota. On Oct. 29, Foley thumbed thusly: “Would this kind of storm happen without climate change? Yes. Fueled by many factors. Is storm stronger because of climate change? Yes.” Eric Pooley, senior vice president of the Environmental Defense Fund (and former deputy editor of Bloomberg Businessweek), offers a baseball analogy: “We can’t say that steroids caused any one home run by Barry Bonds, but steroids sure helped him hit more and hit them farther. Now we have weather on steroids.”

    • Bob 4.1
      3 November 2012 at 3:16 am

      Draco, I think that is the first analogy regarding climate change someone has posted on this site that I have completely agreed with.

  5. higherstandard 5
    2 November 2012 at 11:20 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7898326/Report-damns-ministry-over-security-breaches

    “”I can assure people that the employment investigations will be thorough and people will be held to account for their conduct,” Boyle said.”

    Except, of course, him and his mates and assorted hangers on and sychophants.

  6. Colonial Viper 6
    2 November 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Senior official executed with mortar round

    I guess that’s one way to send a message. Make your political opponent stand on a spot zeroed in by a mortar team.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/9630509/North-Korean-army-minister-executed-with-mortar-round.html

  7. Jackal 7
    2 November 2012 at 12:24 pm

    The cost of climate change

    The issue is that to reduce emissions would mean putting a limit on dairying and using less fossil fuels while many National MP’s have personal vested interests in promoting farming intensification and further oil and gas exploration. This essentially means that nothing will change while they’re in power because they’re selfishly putting their own investments ahead of the common good.

  8. Fortran 8
    2 November 2012 at 1:01 pm

    See Winz now investigating four senior staff members who were fully aware of the computer’s systems security failure, and that they did not tell any senior management.
    Why – ????? NIMBY

    • McFlock 8.1
      2 November 2012 at 1:32 pm

      The goal of staff in a dog-eat-dog organisation is not to run faster than the bear, merely to run faster than their colleagues. 
       
      FUJIMO: feck you Jack, I’M Ok. 

      • aerobubble 8.1.1
        8 November 2012 at 1:49 pm

        Shoving shit isn’t restricted to public institutions. The moral of the story is clear. If you get a report that says you need to do work on security, and you don’t have the ability, the time, then its essential you email the report to your betters. The question for me is did these four staff follow the policy, no surprises. If they did not (and had responsibility for security), then they should be fired. As for managers who hired them, and did not check their ability to manage risk, well they should be fired too, and when the Minister does not resign because she can’t manage the risks of shaking out the back office properly, then her boss the PM should be ousted by the party, because it makes the National party unelectable. Everyone in any middle class position knows how to shovel shit properly to keep their backsides clean, if they don’t then you’d expect there to be little regulation that inhibits people dying down mines, people dying in buildings that should not collapse, investors having their savings stolen by lackluster regulators, billions of taxes to bail out investment firms, huge indebtedness from market bubbles, and shoddy design from brick yard to suburban sprawl.

        Oh, wait, that NZ isn’t it. keep churning the same anti-middle class idealists over into different positions in the public and private sector, and reap the exodus of young skilled NZ overseas…
        …because change requires the whole establishment ups and sacks itself.

  9. joe90 9
    2 November 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Bugger.

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/news/business/0915taxesandeconomy.pdf

    The results of the analysis suggest that changes over the past 65 years in the top marginal tax rate
    and the top capital gains tax rate do not appear correlated with economic growth. The reduction in
    the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth. The
    top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie

    • McFlock 9.1
      2 November 2012 at 1:28 pm

      Why “bugger”?
             
      Following paragraph: However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of income at the top of the income distribution. As measured by IRS data, the share of income accruing to the top 0.1% of U.S. families increased from 4.2% in 1945 to 12.3% by 2007 before falling to 9.2% due to the 2007-2009 recession. At the same time, the average tax rate paid by the top 0.1% fell from over 50% in 1945 to about 25% in 2009. Tax policy could have a relation to how the economic pie is sliced—lower top tax rates may be associated with greater income disparities.”
           
       
      I.e. you want to do something about poverty? Key needs to pay more tax. There is no economic reason to give tax cuts to the rich, but there is a clear humanitarian reason to tax their leeching arses. 

      • Colonial Viper 9.1.1
        2 November 2012 at 3:28 pm

        Tax corporate profits and assets (including financial wealth and capital); greatly relieve GST and significantly reduce the income tax burden on those earning less than $60K pa.

  10. joe90 10
    2 November 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Why “bugger”?

    No sarcasm font.

    Anyhoo, conclusion isn’t the right one so the report has been withdrawn.

  12. Rogue Trooper 12
    2 November 2012 at 2:01 pm

    my two cents worth (i’m not allowed to play on the p.c much anymore)
    response to resource utilisation and climate change HAS to be personal / political; if we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem.
    We have so much lattitude and scope here in Aotearoa New Zealand to discern and prepare for inevitabilities at a personal level.
    -land footprint
    -carbon footprint
    -transportation choice
    -nutrition choice
    -reductions
    -reuses
    -recyclings
    -organics
    -energy choice
    -energy dependence
    -gathering and gleaning
    -water utilisation

    I constantly reflect on whether my own downsizing path has been in a helpful direction, or if it is completed; the forces of propaganda are all about us, seeding self-doubt, yet, as the self-doubt sprouts, the self-examination withers.
    (call me an earth-sycophant, yet it is the only service of perpetual value to our childrens’ children)

  13. Pascal's bookie 13
    2 November 2012 at 3:21 pm

    I know there are still (!) a few Trotter fans about the place. But seriously.

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/because-they-can.html

    A good stirring defence of the rule of law, which he makes a complete mockery of the comments by citing George W Bush legal advice about the limits of executive power ie, there aren’t any.

    This isn’t ‘pre-identity politics leftism’, or ‘old school democratic socialism’. It’s pre liberalism. It’s monarchist. I don’t know actually, what the hell it is. It aint no part of nothin good anyways.

    Fuck him, he speaks not for me, and he aint to be trusted people, hasn’t been for quite some time.

    He’s a doublethinking duckspeaking time waster.

  14. Dv 14
    2 November 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Here is some good news.
    Wanganui College is to be integrated.

    That is a good use of 3 million
    No wonder they had to close the special schools.

  15. Chris 15
    2 November 2012 at 5:35 pm

    Just heard in National Radio that key,showing off in front of little teenage girls said that David Beckham,who he had met was a nice guy and quite good looking but that “he is thick!”!That little man is seriouslystupid!He appears to be very jealous of anybody who has SERIOUS money,so feels obliged to put them down. All in the best possible taste of course.
    Also big boar bennett is denying any responsibility for kiosk leaks.She apparently cannot be held resposible for things she knows nothing about,even though she has “very high standards” don’t you know. Time for her to go!!……….The dream is over paula.

    • Colonial Viper 15.1
      2 November 2012 at 5:47 pm

      Its not the money, Key wishes that he was married to Victoria!

      • Logie97 15.1.1
        2 November 2012 at 6:51 pm

        ”as thick as batshit” apparently. He quipped (as is his wont) to a group of high school pupils.

        Key is all class. What a nice man to have around.

        And to top it all, if a teacher was to use such language he/she would be hauled before the board fielding a complaint from some right-wing-fundamentalist parent.

        Thousands of children would have loved to have had the opportunity to meet Beckham.
        Because of who he is, the PM’s, son gets that privilege. And that’s the parental gratitude.

        • Logie97 15.1.1.1
          2 November 2012 at 9:12 pm

          Conversation overheard in a BMW this evening …
          “Can’t recall saying that.”
          “Mmmm, no acshully, I may well have said it. I’m noted for my quips. I will check to see if there were any cameras there before I completely deny it… get the names of anyone there that might have had an iPhone.

  16. Colonial Viper 16
    2 November 2012 at 6:53 pm

    Beckham’s PR people will already be aware of our PM’s comments. Key makes NZ look like the arse end of the world.

    • fender 16.1
      2 November 2012 at 11:34 pm

      Needs to have tourism minister taken off him for starters.

      Key is the batshit one and can’t help but display it all too often,

  17. Fisiani 17
    2 November 2012 at 10:21 pm

    Cheer up. Your government cares. the progress in Christchurch has been phenomenol.
    http://www.national.org.nz/canterbury.aspx

    • Colonial Viper 17.1
      2 November 2012 at 10:34 pm

      Well, lots of people have left so new housing starts required are down.

    • fatty 17.2
      2 November 2012 at 10:36 pm

      I doubt it…Sell the city’s assets and build a convention centre? That’s not a plan…and the whole East side of Christchurch is quickly turning into a ghetto. Even the cop shop around the corner from me is covered in graffiti.
      They say they plan gives us green spaces, but its only designed to increase property values in the CBD, benefit the rich, and excludes almost all people from living in there.
      They have taken our democratic voice and are creating a corporate Christchurch.
      What is there to be happy about?…anything?

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