Open Mike 03/09/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 3rd, 2018 - 157 comments
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157 comments on “Open Mike 03/09/2018 ”

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  1. Cave Johnson 1
    3 September 2018 at 6:26 am

    Interesting take on identity politics from Kwame Anthony Appiah at the Washinton Post. “Political cleavages are not so much “I disagree with your views” as “I hate your stupid face.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/people-dont-vote-for-want-they-want-they-vote-for-who-they-are/2018/08/30/fb5b7e44-abd7-11e8-8a0c-70b618c98d3c_story.html?

  2. Ed 2
    3 September 2018 at 6:47 am

    Orwellian.
    Examples of Newspeak from today’s corporate media.

    #1 ‘Labour antisemitism row: Hodge claims Corbyn ‘is the problem’

    “War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/sep/02/margaret-hodge-jeremy-corbyn-problem-labour-antisemitism-crisis

    • Morrissey 2.1
      3 September 2018 at 6:58 am

      Hodge is like some brain-damaged stalking horse. She is obviously prepared to destroy any credibility she may have had in order to curry favour with… with whom? The doomed, discredited rump of the Blairite faction.

      Her statement that receiving a disciplinary letter from the Labour Party made her “feel like a Jew in Germany in the 1930s” is at once funny, sad, disgraceful, and reputation-ending. She is nothing more than a joke.

      Norman Finkelstein, as always, sums her up perfectly….

      https://twitter.com/mattturner4l/status/1030499575977705480

      • Wayne 2.1.1
        3 September 2018 at 7:48 am

        Ed Ball, who was senior Labour Minister also says Labour has a problem with anti-semitism.

        As much as you might want, the issue can’t be simply dismissed as fake news.

        • greywarshark 2.1.1.1
          3 September 2018 at 9:12 am

          Wayne
          It is true that UK Labour has problems with the continual application of poisoning opinion, scuttlebutt and slander from various people in the UK and elsewhere, advancing their own political barrows by manufacturing rumours about the supposed anti-semitism of Corbyn and his supporters.

          • Wayne 2.1.1.1.1
            3 September 2018 at 10:02 am

            I don’t think Ed Ball can be as easily dismissed as some might think. Though he is longer an MP, he was regarded very much in the mainstream of Labour and was in a very senior position.

            • Bearded Git 2.1.1.1.1.1
              3 September 2018 at 10:10 am

              meanwhile May toadies up to the Saudis because of a five billion quid arms deal that is slaughtering innocent kids in Yemen.

              • Gosman …
                3 September 2018 at 10:49 am

                To paraphrase:

                “Don’t look at us! Look at those other folks. They are so much worse than us!”

            • Stuart Munro 2.1.1.1.1.2
              3 September 2018 at 1:17 pm

              For a long time Blair was considered relatively “mainstream” – but like a party rather closer to home, his dishonesty in power exhausted his credibility.

              No-one who enthusiastically participated in the lies of the Key kleptocracy or endorsed Groser’s risible efforts in the TPPA negotiations or supports Israel’s murder of Palestinian children ad nauseum has any credibility on any issue whatsoever Wayne. You should hang your head in shame and depart from public life altogether.

        • Chris 2.1.1.2
          3 September 2018 at 9:56 am

          The only thing fake going on here is the characterisation of anti-semitism the likes of Hodge and her mates have chosen to adopt, and that you’ve no doubt accepted hook, line and sinker. Marvelous stuff.

          • Wayne 2.1.1.2.1
            3 September 2018 at 10:01 am

            I don’t think Ed Ball can be as easily dismissed as some might think. Though he is longer an MP, he was regarded very much in the mainstream of Labour and was in a very senior position.

            • Professor Longhair 2.1.1.2.1.1
              3 September 2018 at 3:37 pm

              The foolish “Wayne” makes even more of a goat of himself by repeatedly referring to the Blair apparatchik Ed Balls as “Ed Ball.”

              The name is Balls. Ed Balls. Let the hilarity ensue. (Not for you, though, Wayne, you humorless old fuck.)

            • Morrissey 2.1.1.2.1.2
              3 September 2018 at 5:10 pm

              I don’t think Ed Ball [sic] can be as easily dismissed as some might think.

              Arguing from authority might have some heft if the person you are quoting to support your argument has some credibility. Ed Balls was one of Blair’s henchmen. He was, and obviously still is, a notorious liar. That might not perturb someone who served John Key for nine inglorious years, but it pretty much rules Balls out as far as anyone with a conscience and an I.Q. above room temperature is concerned.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 2.1.1.3
          3 September 2018 at 10:06 am

          https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-conservative-party-rulebook-doesnt-mention-antisemitism

          FactCheck verdict

          The Conservative party code of conduct does not expressly mention antisemitism once – let alone define it.

          The party maintains that they have adopted the International Holocaust Remembrance Association definition of antisemitism, unlike Labour. The Conservative party code of conduct does include a provision for harassment on the basis of religion and belief, which would presumably be invoked to deal with antisemitic behaviour in the party.

          Nevertheless, it’s important to remember that the scandal surrounding Labour is about whether and how it defines antisemitism in its party rules. It is difficult for Theresa May to criticise the Labour on this front – as she did on Wednesday in parliament – when her own party has not specifically mentioned antisemitism in any of its official documents or rulebook.

      • Sanctuary 2.1.2
        3 September 2018 at 8:14 am

        Over time, the meaning of labels change. Once, a conservative was a follower of (to quote Wikipedia’s definition) “…a political philosophy emphasizing the need for the principles of a transcendent moral order, manifested through certain natural laws to which society ought to conform in a prudent manner…”

        Nowadays, in the UK this definition best belongs to the (largely Oxbridge) third way liberals of the 1990s. Those of this class who are members of the British poltiical/media establishment currently constitute the ascendant political class in the Tory party, the civil service, finance and big business and until recently, the British Labour party. This socially liberal political elite cling to a teleological world view which sees the identity politics and the globalised neoliberal economic settings of the 1990s as it’s transcendent moral order, which they see as manifested through the “certain natural laws” of their sole right to rule. Ergo, it follows that the erstwhile political vehicles of the left (and right) in the establishment political order, like the NZ Labour Party, are essentially conservative parties of this status quo. Thus, it follows you get “from the left” (to give an NZ example) mainly people like Grant Robertson, a poster boy of liberal identity politics and a product of the establishment political machinery who as a Labour finance minister doggedly pursues as regressive “fiscally prudent” neoliberal economic targets as any National party finance minister.

        The radical challenge to the status quo has come mainly from the right, fueled by the sense of abandonment felt by the traditional working class base of the left. What is labeled as “conservative” today is anything but conservative. “Conservative” these days means a type of reactionary radicalism, fake populism and a return to the language and tropes of fascism.

        Corbyn is no radical – if you had arrived in a time machine from 1970 you’d find his views unremarkable. But he represents a threat to the UK liberal political establishment that is existential in a way that UKIP is not. Just as with the rise of the Nazi party, the socio-political ruling order has persuaded itself that it can contain and subvert the radical right, that once in power the radical right will by and large leave existing power structures (and therefore their class privileges) intact. Therefore, while Farrage and Rees-Mogg are a problem, ultimately they are not such a problem that your kids won’t be able to follow your footsteps to Oxford.

        The rise of a “proper” left – one aimed at social and economic inequality and containing a concrete program for fundamental economic reform to re-distribute wealth downwards – is a direct attack on the economic base and the social privilege of the new conservatives of the Guardian-reading class.

        Hence the viciousness of the attacks on Corbyn from this class and likes of Hodge, the arch-typical representative of the new conservative type. Fortunately, polls are showing this this anti-semitism “row” is only a “row” in the minds of the new conservative class- the Blairite rump of the Labour party and their echo chamber in the urban liberals of the establishment media and the British public remained skeptical of these smears.

        • Wayne 2.1.2.1
          3 September 2018 at 9:19 am

          Corbyn is a radical. Anyone who voted against his own party over a 30 year period more than any other MP because it wasn’t left enough is by any reasonable definition a radical.
          His economic prescription is quite Chavista, though there is a large question on the extent his own party lets him implement it.
          By your definition anyone who is not embarking on wholesale nationalisation, massive tax increases and withdrawal from most trade agreements is a conservative, hence your description of Grant Robertson.
          Goodnesss knows what you make of the National Party, even those who would be widely regarded as moderates (Todd Muller for instance).

          • Anne 2.1.2.1.1
            3 September 2018 at 9:44 am

            Chavism (Spanish: chavismo), also known as Chavezism (Spanish: chavecismo), is a far-left political ideology based on the ideas, programs and government style associated with the former President of Venezuela Hugo Chávez that combines elements of socialism, left-wing populism, patriotism,
            internationalism, Bolivarianism, feminism, green politics             and Caribbean and Latin American integration. [my bold]

            What a load of bollocks you talk sometimes Wayne. I’m no expert on Jeremy Corbyn, but that collection of contradictions does not in any way describe Corbyn or his political philosophy which, as far as I can tell, amounts to nothing more than a relatively mild version of Democratic Socialism.

            Geez, you do like to indulge in fanciful hyperbole sometimes.

          • cleangreen 2.1.2.1.2
            3 September 2018 at 9:45 am

            Wayne Mapp;

            You always call anyone ‘radical’ that doesnt agree with your twisted views of what’s right; – no surprised here.

            try again.

            • Ed 2.1.2.1.2.1
              3 September 2018 at 1:18 pm

              Corbyn is a radical to the establishment .
              He threatens the military industrial complex’s desire for continued wars world.
              But his policies are moderate and social democratic.
              War mongerers like Netanyahu, Trump, Obama and Blair would think him radical.
              Clearly Mapp is in that group.

          • Molly 2.1.2.1.3
            3 September 2018 at 9:49 am

            “Corbyn is a radical. Anyone who voted against his own party over a 30 year period more than any other MP because it wasn’t left enough is by any reasonable definition a radical.”
            It is probably that voting record that got him the grassroots support that he has. Radical is a term that is loosely used when analysis would prove the user’s bias. He voted with his conscience, and that scares many of the politicians looking to remove him, they lost their own a long time ago, and their actions confirm this loss. They don’t believe him to be anti-semetic, and neither do you, but any port in a storm, huh?

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.1.3.1
              3 September 2018 at 11:33 am

              +111

              • Anne …
                3 September 2018 at 3:26 pm

                He voted with his conscience, and that scares many of the politicians looking to remove him, they lost their own a long time ago, and their actions confirm this loss. They don’t believe him to be anti-semetic, and neither do you, but any port in a storm,..

                Spot on.

            • dukeofurl 2.1.2.1.3.2
              3 September 2018 at 12:24 pm

              Someone has actually written about , and counted Corbyns rebellions!

              http://revolts.co.uk/?p=932

              back in 1983 ,19 times he voted ‘against the whips’ showed he was
              ‘only’ the 8th most rebellious Labour MP

            • marty mars 2.1.2.1.3.3
              3 September 2018 at 3:53 pm

              + 1 yep. Integrity – you either have it or not.

              • mac1 …
                3 September 2018 at 8:52 pm

                What NZ kids in our primary schools are learning this term in the KiwiCan programme…….

                “doing the right thing, even when no one is watching”.
                We’ll begin the term by exploring what integrity means and what acting with integrity looks like.

                Acting with integrity might be as simple as putting your rubbish in the rubbish bin, even when there’s no one there to see you – or as complicated as standing up for what you believe in, even when others give you a hard time.

                As the term continues we’ll go on to learn about: honesty; taking responsibility; and being reliable.”

          • greywarshark 2.1.2.1.4
            3 September 2018 at 10:05 am

            Nearly everyone is a radical from your viewpoint Wayne.

          • Tricledrown 2.1.2.1.5
            3 September 2018 at 11:17 am

            Looking back at Todd Mueller’s Facebook posts no one including you Wayne could describe Todd Mueller as a moderate.
            Corbyn is a true left wing politician who has criticised the way Netanyahu and his fundamentalists have ethnically cleansed Israel not unlike Hitler.
            The slaughter of peaceful protesters in the gaza strip and the ghettoization of Arabs is what Corbyn calls Irony.
            So everyone calls him an antisemitic.

            • Wayne 2.1.2.1.5.1
              3 September 2018 at 12:03 pm

              Todd is leading the National response on climate change. He has been quite supportive of a consensus approach as has said he and National are willing to work with the government on this issue.

              • dukeofurl …
                3 September 2018 at 12:28 pm

                Bridges has made his most recent marks by ‘overturning the apple cart’ by rejecting nationals consensus on other issues.

                Same goes for Maori issues, they will move to the right while in opposition.
                Wont be long before the focus groups pick up rising electricty prices as a topic which they will translate into anti climate change bullet points.
                Its caught the Libs in Australia and it will come here as quick as you can say Crosby Textor

              • KJT …
                3 September 2018 at 3:48 pm

                So long as it doesn’t cost NatIonal’s owners, anything.

          • Stuart Munro 2.1.2.1.6
            3 September 2018 at 1:23 pm

            Corbyn is a moderate.

            “Goodnesss knows what you make of the National Party”

            An unattractive assemblage of ambulant dog tucker overdue for the knife.

          • KJT 2.1.2.1.7
            3 September 2018 at 4:01 pm

            Corbyn could have fitted into Holyoak’s National party.

            Hardly radical.

            The radicals are our Governments since 1984, who have enacted some of the worlds most extreme Neo-liberal policies.

        • Bearded Git 2.1.2.2
          3 September 2018 at 10:13 am

          +1000 Sanctuary….nicely put indeed

        • Carolyn_Nth 2.1.2.3
          3 September 2018 at 12:35 pm

          Sanctuary: Thus, it follows you get “from the left” (to give an NZ example) mainly people like Grant Robertson, a poster boy of liberal identity politics and a product of the establishment political machinery who as a Labour finance minister doggedly pursues as regressive “fiscally prudent” neoliberal economic targets as any National party finance minister.

          I share your dislike of Robertson’s politics. I agree he is a neoliberal in socially caring clothes.

          But I find it curious you paint him as a poster boy for “identity politics”. i don’t see him as such, and I am strongly feminist, pro-LGBTI+ and ethnic equity, etc. Those of us who support campaigns for these various movements get dismissed as “identity politics” people by some on the left. This is, even though for many of us, those movements will never be fully successful while they subscribe to neoliberal values.

          Why not just say Robertson is a neoliberal in Labour clothing, rather than dismiss all social movements as neoliberal “identity politics? It’s an unhelpful smear.

          • Sanctuary 2.1.2.3.1
            3 September 2018 at 1:02 pm

            Fair enough comment.

            Within the left, there is always going to be a tension between the explicit emphasis on individual expression inherent in identity issues and the collectivist ideals central to socialism. The point that I am trying to make is the link between being socially progressive and being left wing is not necessarily a given in the way it was 30 years ago, yet frequently it used as a sort of cast iron set of credentials for being fit for purpose in a left wing political movement. In fact, the new conservatives are extremely adept at hijacking the progressive agenda.

            One could make a case that the absorption of gay rights into a progressive new conservative mainstream actually serves to reinforce the neoliberal consensus in the same way the creation of a brown iwi rentier class reinforces neoliberalism – that is by co-opting sections of society previous outside the mainstream into the ruling elites and institutionalising them to guarantee their support for the status quo.

      • dukeofurl 2.1.3
        3 September 2018 at 11:54 am

        Im sure Corbyn has been at the receiving end of many disciplinary letters from Labour over his long career. he never used to toe the official line

  3. Ed 3
    3 September 2018 at 6:56 am

    Orwellian.
    Examples of Newspeak from today’s politicioans

    #2 John Lewis
    ‏
    ‘Senator John McCain was a warrior for peace. He will be deeply missed by people all around the world.’

    “It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.”

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/27/one-dead-mccain-2-5-million-dead-iraqis/

    • Morrissey 3.1
      3 September 2018 at 7:02 am

      John Lewis, supporter of Hillary Clinton and scourge of Russia. He’s burned up any reputation he once had as a principled and brave fighter for human rights.

      • Ed 3.1.1
        3 September 2018 at 7:25 am

        We live in 1984, when war is peace.
        The people of Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam would disagree with Lewis.

        • Ed 3.1.1.1
          3 September 2018 at 9:43 pm

          Sarah Abdallah

          “John McCain’s history of war mongering, his laundry list of regime change fantasies, his cavorting with neo-Nazis in Ukraine and jihadist terrorists in Syria have all mysteriously been dropped from the official record of the late senator’s life.”

      • greywarshark 3.1.2
        3 September 2018 at 9:15 am

        Morrissey
        I think the real point of Ed’s comment was to be ironic. Apparently you agree and thank you for informing us on John Lewis. I have given up watching USA activities, and rely on people like you to keep me informed.

        • McFlock 3.1.2.1
          3 September 2018 at 12:06 pm

          Please tell me you left out the sarc tag.

          John Lewis is still a thousand times better than Morrissey ever will be, both in walking the walk and in giving credit where credit is due.

          You don’t have to hate McCain to be a good leftie.

          • greywarshark 3.1.2.1.1
            3 September 2018 at 3:25 pm

            McFlock
            I don’t know anything about John Lewis, but a little about Morrissey.
            I was sort of having a bob each way.

            • McFlock 3.1.2.1.1.1
              3 September 2018 at 3:38 pm

              This is the guy Morrissey was talking about.

              This guy is participating in and getting arrested at protests in his seventies. Morrissey isn’t fit to lick his boots.

              • Morrissey …
                3 September 2018 at 5:15 pm

                Sadly, however, last year he was deployed by those cunning strategists at the DNC to be the public face of their ridiculous conspiracy theory about the evil Russian masterminds, led by the monstrous Bond villain Vladimir Putin.

                He could have, and should have, been talking not about spy fantasies but about real crimes, about things that people actually care about.

          • Morrissey 3.1.2.1.2
            3 September 2018 at 5:34 pm

            You would no doubt have found reason to criticize and scoff at his protesting in the 1960s and ’70s, just as you have ridiculed and defamed human rights activists like Julian Assange.

            Does his heroism of the past absolve him from the consequences of foolishly serving as a water carrier for the likes of Charles Schumer and mouthing obscenely inaccurate paeans to people like John McCain?

            • McFlock 3.1.2.1.2.1
              3 September 2018 at 5:41 pm

              and the dog was ill.

              • Morrissey …
                3 September 2018 at 7:25 pm

                Ha! Not only witless, but disgusting too.

                • McFlock …
                  3 September 2018 at 7:51 pm

                  John Lewis is a much better social activist and human being than you are in your own mind, is my point.

                  • Morrissey …
                    3 September 2018 at 8:09 pm

                    He WAS. He’s not now. He doesn’t talk about police killing of civilians in America, or the gerrymandering of electorates and disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of black and Latino voters, or about the fouling of the environment, or the bloodyminded dismantling of education and welfare in his country. All he talks about is RUSSIA. He is not a hero any more, he is a tool of the Democratic Party leadership, which had steadily ignored him and his colleagues in the Black Caucus until suddenly deciding they would be a useful front for the inane and fantastical “Russian meddling” campaign.

                    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-16012017/#comment-1287878

                    • McFlock …
                      3 September 2018 at 8:43 pm

                      Easy start: let’s look at his twitter account, shall we?

                      John Lewis
                      ‏Verified account @repjohnlewis
                      Jul 3

                      Your vote matters. If it didn’t, why would some people keep trying to take it away? #goodtrouble

                      John Lewis
                      ‏Verified account @repjohnlewis
                      Jun 25

                      I was beaten, left bloody & unconscious while friends of mine gave their lives to ensure that every person has the right to register & vote. But five years ago the SCOTUS Shelby County v Holder decision stuck a dagger in the heart of the Voting Rights Act. We must #RestoreTheVRA
                      537 replies . 19,327 retweets 55,495 likes

                      John Lewis
                      ‏Verified account @repjohnlewis
                      Feb 14

                      This budget seeks to dismantle the social safety net. That is not right, it is not fair, and it is not just. Every person watching should understand that this budget is dangerous and unrealistic.

                      John Lewis
                      ‏Verified account @repjohnlewis
                      16 Nov 2017

                      You cannot hide the truth from the sick, the elderly, the disabled for whom this bill may mean life or death. All taxpayers expect, demand, and deserve better – much better — than legislation, which puts politics before the good of the people.

                      [re: disability rights]
                      John Lewis
                      ‏Verified account @repjohnlewis
                      Feb 15

                      It is unbelievable, it is unreal that we consider a bill that turns the clock backwards and strikes a devastating blow in the fight for civil rights.

                      All he talks about is RUSSIA.

                      not as often as you think. But quite a bit about the child kidnap policy and immigration bigotry. Also some links to some good speeches in congress by him.

                      Not quite the monomaniac you’d have us believe, is my point.

                    • Morrissey …
                      3 September 2018 at 8:55 pm

                      You’re right—he is indeed 1,000 times better than me.

                    • McFlock …
                      3 September 2018 at 9:16 pm

                      He made a couple of statements about Russia. Boo-hoo. The fact is that you completely misrepresented him when you went off on your little rant.

                    • Macro …
                      3 September 2018 at 9:32 pm

                      What a load of crap you spout Morrissey. You have no idea whom John Lewis is, and simply rubbish him, because he is a Democrat. Your misogynistic hatred of Hillary Clinton clearly clouds your judgement on these matters. Get over it!
                      Just an example of what Democrats have been trying to achieve over the past few years (because you have absolutely no idea of what is going on in US politics) in 2016 the Democrats staged a “sit in” in the House demanding the House consider introducing gun legislation in a legislature controlled by Repugnants. This “sit in” was led by John Lewis. They remained in the chamber for 26 hours, and the last to speak was John Lewis. Regrettably, despite strong public support, and support from the then President Obama, and Hillary Clinton, et al. because of the intransigence of the majority Repugnants they were unable to get any concessions to deal with gun violence.
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_House_of_Representatives_sit-in
                      This is just one example of the work that John Lewis has been doing and continues to do.
                      You should be ashamed of yourself.

                    • Professor Longhair …
                      4 September 2018 at 9:56 am

                      Easy start: let’s look at his twitter account, shall we?….

                      An admirable refutation of Mr Breen by Mr McFlock. It should be interesting to see how Mr Breen responds to being so forcefully and comprehensively told.

                    • McFlock …
                      4 September 2018 at 12:37 pm

                      Given that his twitter linked to several speeches he gave on a variety of not-Russia topics, even if tweets alone were deemed insufficient then there’s still more than enough evidence there to say you’re full of shit, moz

                    • Professor Longhair …
                      4 September 2018 at 2:43 pm

                      Indeed, Mr McFlock, indeed. Let us now all await Mr Breen’s response.

                    • Stunned Mullet …
                      4 September 2018 at 2:57 pm

                      Could you introduce some new sockpuppets Breen.

                    • Morrissey …
                      4 September 2018 at 5:31 pm

                      Macro: What a load of crap you spout Morrissey.

                      Morrissey: Oooh! Bit harsh, but hey! I’ll take it. I deserve to be dressed down for my behavior.

                      Macro: You have no idea whom [sic] John Lewis is, and simply rubbish him, because he is a Democrat.

                      Morrissey: I fear your anger with me, which is quite justified, is clouding your judgement, Macro. I think I know a lot more about John Lewis than you do, my friend.

                      Macro: Your misogynistic hatred of Hillary Clinton clearly clouds your judgement on these matters. Get over it!

                      Morrissey: There you go again. Anger is driving you to make some stupid statements. I despise Hillary Clinton for her brutal politics, her war-mongering, her stirring up of racial hatred with her disgusting “superpredator” speech in the 1990s. I have never criticized her for anything concerning her gender. Your accusation that I “hate” her is itself nonsense, but your compounding that nonsense by calling my criticism of her “misogynistic” mounts that nonsense onto stilts. You embarrass yourself and lessen, even destroy, the impact of your message by making such absurd and unfair accusations. I deserve upbraiding for my excessive and ungenerous comments about John Lewis, but your excoriations are rendered worthless when you resort to such flagrant untruths as calling me “misogynistic.”

                      Macro: Just an example of what Democrats have been trying to achieve over the past few years (because you have absolutely no idea of what is going on in US politics)

                      Morrissey: There you go again! In your zeal, you claim I “have absolutely no idea of whay is going on in US politics.” I would bet a silk pajama I know much more, and read much more, about U.S. politics than you do.

                      Macro: in 2016 the Democrats staged a “sit in” in the House demanding the House consider introducing gun legislation in a legislature controlled by Repugnants. This “sit in” was led by John Lewis. They remained in the chamber for 26 hours, and the last to speak was John Lewis. …. [In the interests of brevity we have edited this portion of his monologue]… This is just one example of the work that John Lewis has been doing and continues to do. You should be ashamed of yourself.

                      Morrissey: Oh I am, Macro, I am. In the last day or so I’ve resolved to be much more balanced in my comments, and to think twice before rushing in to print with condemnations of decent people like John Lewis. I’m going to keep things much more in perspective. You should try it too.

                    • Stunned Mullet …
                      4 September 2018 at 6:10 pm

                      Morrissey: (While dressed in his fishnets and attaching his nipple clamps)

                      Oooh! Morrissey you wit ! They’ll all be applauding across the internet….ohhh…….ohhhh….arghhhhh…gurgle…parp !

                      Enter Professor Longhair attached to Morrisey’s right hand…Breen ! You’ve been a very naughty boy……

  4. Ad 4
    3 September 2018 at 7:21 am

    Great to hear Phil Twyford on RNZ this morning in the first of the Kiwibuild homes, in Papakura. What a great electorate for excellent policy delivery!

    1,000 to be built by July next year.

    • Molly 4.1
      3 September 2018 at 9:55 am

      Have very strong ties to Papakura, and it is a community that needs considered help. Don’t see how Kiwibuild is going to do that.

      Sorry Ad, the housing issue needs more than cheerleaders for actions essentially continuing the status quo. If your cheering is for delivery of promised actions – then whoopee! If it for delivery of effective actions to deal with the housing crisis – then all that this deserves is a long silence.

      • Ad 4.1.1
        3 September 2018 at 9:59 am

        You know it’s not their only housing policy right?

        • Molly 4.1.1.1
          3 September 2018 at 10:05 am

          We’ve already been here a few times Ad. And although I’ve responded to you, you’ve never taken the time to discuss the issues I’ve brought up about their housing policy and how it will not address the security of housing for NZers.

          So, yes I do know about the rest of their housing policy. And I think they have both their approach and their priorities wrong for dealing with the housing crisis in New Zealand.

          • Ad 4.1.1.1.1
            3 September 2018 at 10:42 am

            You respond poorly. I’m quite happy to criticise this governments’ policies, and do so regularly here.

            I could list all the policy areas in housing that they are addressing, and go through them one by one with you, but actually you need a broader debate than that.

            So Molly my challenge to you today is:

            Set your criticisms of this governments’ housing policy – all of them – out in a post and submit it here.

            Let’s do a proper housing policy debate.

            • Molly 4.1.1.1.1.1
              3 September 2018 at 11:02 am

              Thanks for the challenge. I would respond by finding some of the long comments I have posted in the past, but having trouble searching my username to pick them up.

              At present, my comments have been fewer and fewer due to time constraints and if I do find the time to write a post I will, but it is unlikely.

              However, you often don’t discuss you dismiss. So, just discuss this one point.

              How will any of these policies address the wide gap between income and housing costs for NZers?

              (There have been a cohort of NZers that have benefitted from rising housing costs, but it has been at the expense of many others. None of the housing policy by the current government seeks to address that systematic failure effectively.)

              • Molly …
                3 September 2018 at 11:23 am

                … for anyone interested – there is a good link to the government’s housing stocktake report, which will probably inform better than the current to-ing and fro-ing between me and Ad.

                • dukeofurl …
                  3 September 2018 at 12:00 pm

                  Maybe you are ‘looking under the wrong stones to’ help Papakura’

                  “Have very strong ties to Papakura, and it is a community that needs considered help. Don’t see how Kiwibuild is going to do that.

                  Seems to me that building homes at the first home buyer end is all they are wanting to do. Other suburbs and cities will get similar. The big story is we havent build anywhere near enough over the last 10 years.
                  Can you see its not ‘designed’ to help Papakura specifically.

                  • Molly …
                    3 September 2018 at 1:07 pm

                    That was a response to Ad’s Papakura comment, in terms of the cheerleading… “… in Papakura. What a great electorate for excellent policy delivery!…”

                    The disjointed planning and social impacts in Papakura in the last couple of decades requires strong vision to alleviate. Kiwibuild presence is unlikely to do that.

  5. marty mars 5
    3 September 2018 at 7:51 am

    Awesome – great article

    “Boxing is an unlikely suicide prevention tool. But for some, the commitment and discipline the sport brings is a game changer…

    Three years later, Rodgers is now a suicide prevention worker at He Waka Tapu, a Christchurch kaupapa Māori health and wellbeing organisation.

    She first started boxing in 2012 and did amateur fights for a couple of years before taking a break. Not only is she fighting again now, she also pitched the idea earlier this year of introducing community boxing classes for schoolgirls, women and new mums as part of He Waka Tapu’s offerings. It’s been a success, with all nine classes full.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/motivate-me/106602358/boxing-saved-my-life-when-finding-the-will-to-live-is-the-biggest-win

  6. marty mars 6
    3 September 2018 at 8:11 am

    40 years ago and we are STILL ROCKING!!!

    “Roger Huddle, 72, co-founded Rock Against Racism in 1976 to protest the racism of the far-right (sound familiar?) — and, similarly, he saw a definitive catalyst to his movement: rock star Eric Clapton’s infamous on-stage rant in the same year in support of controversial anti-immigration politician Enoch Powell.

    “Stop Britain from becoming a black colony,” Clapton reportedly shouted in Birmingham at the peak of his fame, somewhat ironically obtained after his cover of Bob Marley’s “I Shot the Sheriff” became a hit. “Get the foreigners out. England is for white people, man. We are a white country.”

    Clapton has since said he’s “disgusted” by the outburst, posed at a time when racial violence was increasing in Britain — and popular musicians like Clapton, and even David Bowie, were seemingly flirting with fascism.

    “There’s no doubt for [Clapton] to come out with that sent real shockwaves,” Roger Huddle tells Global Citizen. “But more than anything, coming out with that statement really galvanised people into the thought that there must be something done about the national front and the rise of racism.

    “There were murders taking place on the streets — and the National Front, a Nazi organisation, were growing on the strength of it,” he continues. “So Clapton’s outburst on the stage … It was completely and utterly unforgivable.”

    Rock Against Racism, in partnership with the Anti-Nazi League, responded with a massive demonstration. About 100,000 people marched through London, culminating in a music festival in Victoria Park with The Clash, Steel Pulse, and British bands that spanned across punk, rock, and reggae. It inspired similar shows and marches all over the country. The rest is history; now Rock Against Racism is part of an exhibition at the Museum of London that highlights the city’s most important cultural and political moments.”

    https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/rock-against-racism-roger-huddle-eric-clapton/

    • greywarshark 6.1
      3 September 2018 at 9:18 am

      Thanks marty

    • Carolyn_Nth 6.2
      3 September 2018 at 10:32 am

      Thanks, marty. I went on one of those massive Anti-Nazi League demos in London later in the 70s. It ended with a Rock Against Racism rally in South London – Brockwell Park.

      Must’ve been this one, 1978.

      The sad thing is, the fashists never went away, they just got sidelined somewhat, while the Tories took many of their polices from the Fash.

      With Elvis Costello performing at the RAR rally in Brockwell Park

      1979 Doco about the ANL, with some footage of the 1978 demo:

      • marty mars 6.2.1
        3 September 2018 at 10:40 am

        Cool. We stood up to them then and we still do now. Appeasement never works – it is just seen for what it is and that is weakness. We were strong then and we are strong now no matter how many try to destabilize, minimise, and belittle our conviction and fortitude and that’s just the fake lefties – sheese next up the real righties lol.

        I love remembering these old days and finding connection to our battles today. We are blessed to have been here during these times imo.

    • veutoviper 6.3
      3 September 2018 at 10:59 am

      WOW, that takes me back. I well remember the Rock Against Racism. I still involuntarily shudder at any mention of Enoch Powell’s name.

      Thanks for the memories as I spent almost seven years living and working in London in the ’70s – loved it but Aotearoa and whanau finally called me home.

      I must confess that I still like Clapton’s music … although Queen was more my style at the time. I worked with Brian May’s Dad*, and got to know Brian through him, and also got to know Freddy and Roger through their stall at Kensington Market. So went to many of their earlier gigs etc etc etc … LOL

      * who helped Brian to make his first guitar which he still uses to this day. So much for his Dad’s avionics engineering background!

      Many pluses to your 6.2.1 – well said.

  7. esoteric pineapples 7
    3 September 2018 at 8:31 am

    This is Chris Hedges talk from a few days ago is great:

  8. Andre 8
    3 September 2018 at 9:37 am

    A striking measure of how much has changed in the last couple of years is how what used to be banal and anodyne phrases in eulogies are now considered brutal burns.

    https://www.salon.com/2018/09/02/president-trump-supporters-enraged-john-mccains-funeral-threw-political-hand-grenades/

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12117978

    • dukeofurl 8.1
      3 September 2018 at 12:06 pm

      I think McCain is being over eulogized.
      There is no great policy achievements and as a GOP senator he followed the party line in many critical votes.

      best line from a while back
      2008 assessment of MSNBC’s Chris Matthews, “The press loves McCain. We’re his base.”

      • Andre 8.1.1
        3 September 2018 at 12:33 pm

        Well, yeah. That saltiest obit you’ll ever read linked by joe90 a while back was pretty fair. And the few occasions of bipartisanship and bucking the party line that McCain is being lionized for now was really kinda normal not long ago.

        But my remark was more about how lines in his eulogies that could have come straight off a Hallmark card are being considered serious attacks against the SCROTUS.

  9. ianmac 9
    3 September 2018 at 9:42 am

    Better than real?
    “WHITE HOUSE PRESS BRIEFING” — A Bad Lip Reading

  10. cleangreen 10
    3 September 2018 at 9:55 am

    Tyres are ruled as toxic by German Scientists- studies show.

    So we now need to ban tyres also from the environment since we are going around banning plastic bags so automotive tyres have the same chemicals in them that are toxic to our health to boot.

    Just remember the next time you are following behind a large double trailer truck they call “b train” as the tyre particles coming off those 32 tyres are being breathed into your lungs and entering your blodd and tissues, and the 1,3, butadiene will get you cancer if the other Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) do not reach you.

    You would have thought by now that with all our “engineering” skills we could now make a totally ‘toxic free’ tyre now wouldn’t you?

    https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/en/press/pressinformation/polycyclic-aromatic-hydrocarbons-polluters-toxic

    Press› Press releases ›Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons – Polluters! Toxic! Unavoidable?
    Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons – Polluters! Toxic! Unavoidable?
    EU to pass new caps on PAH upon urging from Germany

    The European Commission wants to make consumer products safer and is proposing standardized caps for polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH). PAH are present in many products such as tyres and toys.

    • Andre 10.1
      3 September 2018 at 10:46 am

      The bits in your link that mention tyres are:

      “Whether found in mousepads, toys or thongs, independent laboratories have regularly detected PAH in consumer products, and often at concentrations that are not allowed for, say, tyres.”

      snip

      “Jochen Flasbarth said, “Whereas the EU has had a cap on PAH in tyres for years, there are no such caps for products like clothing, handles, toys or children’s items.”

      Tyres are controlled for PAHs, and the 1,3 butadiene that goes into tyres gets polymerised into solid styrene-butadiene-rubber so it’s no longer 1,3 butadiene.

      What the article is saying, however, is that PAHs in many consumer products are not controlled and should be. It’s your electronic device you’re using to harangue us about tyres that you actually should be worried about, much more than the tyres. And even just looking at truck-specific pollutants, exhaust, fugitive fuel and lubricant losses, brake dust are all of much greater concern.

      • cleangreen 10.1.1
        3 September 2018 at 11:18 am

        I image you are a chemical wporker or belong to the road lobby?

        Trouble is that so much of tyre dust is now entering our air that partivles of many PAH’s sre actually entering our bodies and environment.

        read how far those particles will travel and how many build up on our roads and surrounding homes now.

        QUOTE.
        http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/07/31/3554997.htm

        Each time a tyre rotates, it loses a layer of rubber about a billionth of a metre thick. If you do some numbers, this works out to about four million million million carbon atoms lost with each rotation.

        A busy road with 25,000 vehicles travelling on it each day will generate around nine kilograms of tyre dust per kilometre. In the USA, about 600,000 tonnes of tyre dust comes off vehicles every year.

        Andre you may dismiss this buildup of tovxic AH including 1,3,butadiene but many including EU are worried.

        Andre; go to the NIOSH data base and check this;

        by the way if you want to know what NIOSH says about exposure to 1,3, butadiene just look at what the lowest possible exposure level (Ca) 90.19 ppm LOQ will do to you.

        quote from the NIOSH database;
        CAS # 106-97-8 EI42000000 1,3,butadiene – Health effects;

        Hematopoietic cancer, tetrogenic and reproductive effects.

        My defence of the use of rail not roads as you would prefer we do.;

        Check to see what the tyres they use are made of and you will see that only rail is the gold standard as they use steel wheels and tracks not 1,3,Butadienee styrene as tyres use and the roads are made from oil products also (as you have probably not considered this),

        So if we used electric trains and trams we are in the golden seat of the lowest emissions’ of pollution and toxins.

        • Andre 10.1.1.1
          3 September 2018 at 12:24 pm

          I’m an engineer, and my career has been around design, research, development and manufacturing. Many of the products and processes I’ve been around use hazardous substances and processes. Assessing and managing substance, manufacturing, and end-user hazards has frequently ended up on my plate. And I’ve had employment relationships end because I’ve refused to be a part of implementing and/or continuing things that I considered unreasonably hazardous.

          A frequent obstacle to improving things are individuals that get a bee in their bonnet about something that by any rational assessment is a very low hazard, both in an absolute sense and compared to other hazards in the same environment. Frequently those individuals also ignore the warnings and processes that mitigate the actual significant hazards thereby putting themselves and those around them at real risk, for whatever bizarre reasons they come up with in their own minds. Then they are very quick to blame others and not themselves when the procedures they bypass actually turn out to have been put in place for a good reason.

          That ABC article you just linked raises lots of flags for being junk as far as technical detail goes. For instance “In the Australian outback, traces of lead from car exhausts have been found up to 50 kilometres away from the nearest road. So some of the tyre dust can travel that far — but of course, most of it will settle around the road.” is a complete non-sequitur that’s nonetheless very good at getting the ignorant to nod their heads sagely. Lead from exhaust is generated from burning a vapourised liquid, which generally produces very tiny particle sizes, that is then expelled in a stream of gas at high speed into a turbulent vehicle wake. Whereas tyre dust is generated by sharp edges of stones tearing micro-chunks of rubber off the tyres at ground level, so the particles are orders of magnitude larger and are generated already at ground level where wind speeds are much lower to begin with and die quickly due to drag with the ground. That’s not to say tyre particles won’t travel as far, or possibly further, than lead particles. Just that if you want to make a point about how far tyre dust can travel, do so by detecting how far detectable tyre dust actually travels. Or if you need a proxy, find one that’s generated in a similar manner with a similar size profile.

          Or the bit “On average, about 80 per cent of all PM10 in cities comes from road transport. Tyre and brake wear causes about three to seven per cent of this component. Each year in the UK, PM10s of all types are blamed for an extra 10,000 deaths, due to heart and lung disease.” Nice bit of scaremongering that lumps together tyre and brake dust. But the hazard profiles of brake dust and tyre dust are very different. Brake dust is much more hazardous due to it’s much smaller particle size, much of it sub-micron, and its high metal content. Whereas tyre dust particles are generally much larger, particularly in New Zealand where our coarse chip seal tears much larger chunks of rubber off tyres than much smoother macadam surfaces.

          And yet again, that although 1,3 butadiene is a constituent in the manufacture of tyres, it does not follow that it is a hazard to consumers. Because the polymerisation reaction that turns the precursors into a solid rubber means the resulting solid is very different chemically and hazard profile compared to what went in. Certainly the hazard of 1,3 butadiene is very relevant to the compounder who works with the unreacted monomer, and is quite relevant to the tyre builder that works with the rubber prior to vulcanisation, and may be relevant to tyre retailers and fitters who spend their working days inside closed spaces filled with new tyres that may be outgassing trace amounts of unreacted constituents. But for the rest of us, the tyres are outdoors where any outgassed 1,3 butadiene is immediately dissipated. I’ll also take a guess the vast majority of the 1,3 butadiene the general public is exposed to comes from non tyre sources such as exhausts, domestic fires. It’s the kind of molecule commonly created by incomplete combustion, with lots of carbon double-bonds.

          From https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=457&tid=81

          “The primary way you can be exposed to 1,3-butadiene is by breathing air containing it. Releases of 1,3-butadiene into the air occur from:

          vehicle exhaust
          tobacco smoke
          wood burning
          burning of rubber and plastic
          forest fires
          accidental or intentional release at manufacturing plants
          The average amount of 1,3-butadiene in the air is between 0.04 and 0.9 parts of 1,3-butadiene per billion parts of air (ppb) in cities and suburban areas.”

          Note that tyres don’t even make it on the list.

  11. greywarshark 11
    3 September 2018 at 9:56 am

    White South Africans marching in our streets shouting about their ‘whanau’ and wanting us to do something about the sad problems in their country. Apparently it is fair and balanced to ask our country to speak to their country about their woes because we did something to draw attention to the blacks’ woes in 1981. Ironic huh. And using the whanau word which is the strong glue used in bringing Maori together, te reo Maori being used to bring the two signatories to the Treaty of Waitangi together.

    It seems to me that the UN should be able to do sterling service on this South African wrong, along with others. But it seems a bit of an eunuch, good for managing and organising, but lacking in creative power.

    South African should be using instead of ‘whanau’, Bantu, Afrikaans, English. They have a choice! Apparently the recent government has used English as a lingua franca. Google shows ‘family’ in Zulu as umndeni or imikhaya (https://zulu.english-dictionary.help/english-to-zulu-meaning-family) and in Afrikaans: afkoms; familie; gesin; geslag; groep; huishou; stam; vrou en kinders (http://www.majstro.com/dictionaries/English-Afrikaans/family)

    A brush-up on languages in South Africa.
    The most common language spoken as a first language by South Africans is Zulu (23 percent), followed by Xhosa (16 percent), and Afrikaans (14 percent). English is the fourth most common first language in the country (9.6%), but is understood in most urban areas and is the dominant language in government and the media.

    The majority of South Africans speak a language from one of the two principal branches of the Bantu languages represented in South Africa: the Sotho–Tswana branch (Sesotho, Northern Sotho, Tswana), or the Nguni branch (Zulu, Xhosa, Swazi, Ndebele). For each of the two groups, the languages within that group are for the most part intelligible to a native speaker of any other language within that group….

    Since taking power in the 1994 election, the ANC has promoted English as the main language of government, even if South Africans often take pride in using indigenous languages for any purpose. Afrikaans also features prominently in commerce together with English, as the languages with the highest number of fluent speakers are Afrikaans and English.

    In terms of linguistic classification, the official languages include two West Germanic languages (English and Afrikaans) and nine Southern Bantu languages. Four of these are Nguni languages (Zulu, Xhosa, Swati and Ndebele) and three are Sotho–Tswana languages (Northern Sotho, Southern Sotho, and Tswana). Tsonga is a Tswa–Ronga language.[8]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_South_Africa

    • marty mars 11.1
      3 September 2018 at 10:16 am

      Yes – much more to this story than meets the eye.

      • joe90 11.1.1
        3 September 2018 at 11:13 am

        Yup, these are the pricks who want license to celebrate their racist, manifest destiny shtick.

        South African expats living in New Zealand have revived an Afrikaans national day abolished years ago as a racist relic in their homeland.

        The Day of the Vow, on December 16, marks the 1838 Battle of Blood River in which 460 white Voortrekkers fought off 20,000 Zulu. The lopsided conflict left 3000 spear-wielding Zulu dead and three of the rifle-armed Afrikaners with minor injuries

        […]

        South African expat Rudi du Plooy gathered about 20 people at a Hamilton church on Saturday, where he told them they had been thrust into an “era of being politically correct”. But he was convinced the day’s original name and focus should stand, especially in the face of attacks on white farmers.

        “This serves as a reminder that God can intervene if you talk to him. They made a promise to serve him and build a church, because of this God helped good triumph over evil. God can intervene with what is happening in South Africa now with the slaughter of innocent farmers,” du Plooy said.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/99925523/south-african-expats-revive-racist-afrikaans-national-day-in-nz?rm=m

        • marty mars 11.1.1.1
          3 September 2018 at 11:58 am

          Yep – they are still manipulating and they are still bastards!

        • greywarshark 11.1.1.2
          3 September 2018 at 1:18 pm

          Leave God out of it. He/she gets invoked by everybody to help them when we have all the powers of intelligence given to us to make our own heaven and hell.

          There are numbers of bloody conflicts between Boers and the people of the land that the Boers wanted, and the British Empah. This is one of them:

          King Dingane’s reputed instruction to his warriors, “Bulalani abathakathi!” (Zulu for “kill the wizards”) showed that he may have considered the Boers to wield evil supernatural powers. After killing Retief’s delegation, a Zulu army of 7,000 impis were sent out and immediately attacked Voortrekker encampments in the Drakensberg foothills at what later was called Blaauwkrans and Weenen leading to the Weenen massacre in which 282 Voortrekkers, of whom 185 children were killed. In contrast to earlier conflicts with the Xhosa on the eastern Cape frontier, the Zulu killed the women and children along with the men, wiping out half of the Natal contingent of Voortrekkers…

          In November 1838 Andries Pretorius arrived with a commando of sixty armed trekkers and two cannons to assist in the defence. A few days later on the 16 December 1838 a force of 468 trekkers, 3 Britons, and 60 black allies fought against 10,000 to 12,000 Zulu impis at the Battle of Blood River. Pretorius’s stunning victory over the Zulu army led to a civil war within the Zulu nation as King Dingane’s half-brother, Mpande kaSenzangakhona, aligned with the Voortrekkers to overthrow the king and impose himself. Mpande sent 10,000 impis to assist the trekkers in follow-up expeditions against Dingane.[18]:164 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Trek#Conflict_with_the_Matabele

          The British ruled over one area, and the Dutch wanted to form their own laws. They tried to set up their own areas inland, and a number of independent groups with a religious purist direction and a desire to be under their own jurisdiction tried to make agreements for tribal land held by various tribes. They sometimes let the Dutch settle but then were tempted to steal their cattle. It was bound to end badly and disrupted and changed the culture of the resident tribal inhabitants.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer

      • McFlock 11.1.2
        3 September 2018 at 12:40 pm

        Oh gosh, look what I just found: a breakdown of farming households in South Africa that reckons there are 143,000 farming households in SA headed by a white person. So that provides us the smallest possible denominator for the “one white farmer a week” meme, and therefor a maximum possible murder rate of about 36/100000, assuming that every white farmer in South Africa lives alone.

        About the same as the current SA murder rate.

        • joe90 11.1.2.1
          3 September 2018 at 1:15 pm

          I might be wrong but it seems the death of anyone killed on a farm is used to support the one white farmer a week meme.

          The problem with farm murder rate calculations

          Two figures are needed to calculate a crime rate: the number of cases and the population affected.

          The police’s latest statistics show that there were 74 farm murders in 2016/17.

          According to the official definition, the victims could include people “residing on, working on or visiting farms and smallholdings”. Experts say that estimating this total population is difficult, if not impossible.

          “It may be problematic to use an estimate of all people living on farms depending on what data is used for murders and attacks,” Gareth Newham, head of the crime and justice programme at the Institute for Security Studies, told Africa Check.

          “It is likely that many of the figures for farm attacks and murders on farms collected by organised agricultural or the SAPS for that matter, would not contain all the attacks or murders of non-farmers.”

          Until an accurate estimate of the number of people “residing on, working on or visiting farms and smallholdings” is released, it will not be possible to calculate a farm murder rate.

          https://africacheck.org/factsheets/factsheet-statistics-farm-attacks-murders-sa/

          • McFlock 11.1.2.1.1
            3 September 2018 at 1:25 pm

            Yup.

            But at worst, the murder rate of white farmers is the same as the murder rate for everyone else in SA.

            At best, it’s a small fraction of the murder rate everyone else faces.

          • greywarshark 11.1.2.1.2
            3 September 2018 at 1:26 pm

            The object is to know how many white farmers are killed each year to see if the quoted figure is correct. And there needs to be a separate figure for other white people killed on each farm, and a total of all white farming people killed to show the extent of the problem. Also how many black managers, foremen, and workers and families are killed, and what farm they were connected with.

            It is more complex than a figure that is plucked out of some statistical data.

            • McFlock 11.1.2.1.2.1
              3 September 2018 at 1:46 pm

              Apparently they do not actually have the data to create a precise figure.

              All we can do is calculate the highest possible bound to the murder rate for that claim: that every “white farmer” killed was the sole occupant of a white household with a farm.

              Any fewer people murdered, or if the population is larger than people whose household has a farm, then the “white farmer” murder rate goes down.

              And their worst case scenario is no worse than everyone else’s average lived reality.

  12. Herodotus 12
    3 September 2018 at 10:31 am

    Does our Fin Minister listen to himself
    GDP is forecasted to rise by 3%, same problem that I had with the Nat govt. Per capita GDP is stagnant. Keep increasing immigration by 68,000 and this figure is meaningless.
    Now we are told ok to creep over the 20% debt target – and that is after some dodgy accounting is taking place to “maintain” this. And the reason to be dodgy ?? Stephen Joyce did this, and Min Robertson is sounding more like SJ (8:00 in) !!!!!!!
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a
    Just as well that few watch this.

  13. greywarshark 13
    3 September 2018 at 10:35 am

    Is this a new member of the witches’ coven that want to invoke curses on Labour?

    * Peter Wilson is a life member of parliament’s press gallery, political editor of NZPA for 22 years and parliamentary bureau chief of NZ Newswire for seven years.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/365419/week-in-politics-could-it-get-any-worse-for-labour
    A political vacuum is never a safe place – it’s soon filled with speculation, conspiracy theories and suspicion.
    That’s what has happened to the situation surrounding the leak of Simon Bridges’ expenses.
    Speaker Trevor Mallard’s decision to call off the inquiry set up to find the culprit has created a controversy that isn’t going to be easily resolved.

    It all seems part of a deliberate policy of political parties of the Right to conduct a long-term flim-flam approach to government delaying and obfuscating to prevent things being thought through and done. I think it is part of a scheme to dirty government in people’s eyes and ruin the democracy that has been painfully built up over the centuries. That idea was to give direction to the activities of the country with people’s voice being heard and enabling a reasonable standard of living and behaving that benefits all people. Can we fucking well get on with this and stop treating politicians doings as the main dish in political discussion; at present it seems that their behaviours are considered the most important subject. Actually, politics was not organised to be a gossip fest amongst those who have become an elected aristocracy.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02606755.2018.1427325
    This seems a good explanation of different ways of thinking on political matters and then conducting proper discussion on them likely to lead to actions of value.

  14. Ngungukai 14
    3 September 2018 at 10:44 am

    Mike Hoskings reckons Twyford is doing a good job over riding Auckland City Council on Housing Matters and the Unitary Plan ?

    • greywarshark 14.1
      3 September 2018 at 1:33 pm

      So what’s up with Hosking? Is Twyford opening up more land for developers – so good?

  15. marty mars 15
    3 September 2018 at 10:49 am

    The tangerine tinyhands deserves it.

    “Two ex-presidents agreed to eulogise McCain, a man with whom neither was personally very close, but who both regarded with respect. It’s hard to imagine any ex-presidents giving your eulogy. So, who do you think they’ll get?”

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/106766501/donald-trump-your-funeral-is-coming

    • mauī 15.1
      3 September 2018 at 12:57 pm

      From the coverage I’ve seen the funeral seemed to be all about attacking Trump by high profile people. Can’t think of many lower things to do at such an occasion. Political point scoring and all that. Sure if McCain had given his approval before he died that speakers should attack Trump that would be a different story.

      • McFlock 15.1.1
        3 September 2018 at 1:15 pm

        Seemed to be mostly praising McCain using qualities that ‘happened’ to be shortcomings for dolt-45. And most of the speakers were no longer in need of political points.

        Given the amount of love lost between the oompahloompah and McCain, it wasn’t too out of order.

      • joe90 15.1.2
        3 September 2018 at 1:26 pm

        Sure if McCain had given his approval before he died that speakers should attack Trump

        In a final critisism of the tRump/Putin footsie he selected Russian opposition politician Vladimir Kara-Murza as pallbearer, so why wouldn’t he.

      • marty mars 15.1.3
        3 September 2018 at 1:33 pm

        T.rump isn’t fit to clean McCain’s shoe. He knows it, we all know it. Moving on …

      • Macro 15.1.4
        3 September 2018 at 1:33 pm

        Sure if McCain had given his approval before he died that speakers should attack Trump that would be a different story.
        Of course he did! Trump was not invited, but people from all other spectrums of US politics were: Here is what McCain wrote in his final letter to Americans:

        “We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries that have sown resentment and hatred and violence in all the corners of the globe. We weaken it when we hide behind walls, rather than tear them down, when we doubt the power of our ideals, rather than trust them to be the great force for change they have always been.”

        If that is not a direct rebuke of Trumpism I don’t know what is.

        Perhaps the greatest rebuke of Trump at the funeral was delivered not by a politician but by McCains daughter Meghan:
        “The America of John McCain is generous and welcoming and bold,” Meghan McCain said. “She is resourceful and confident and secure. She meets her responsibilities. She speaks quietly because she is strong. America does not boast because she has no need to.

        “The America of John McCain has no need to be great again because America was always great.”
        That rebuke was met with universal applause from those gathered.
        https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/america-was-always-great-meghan-mccain-john-mccain-s-daughter-n905716
        While the Eulogies never mentioned Trump by name they were more a direct appeal for the US to return to the less bigoted past which was the US that McCain had fought all his life to protect. If you cannot respect that then, that is your problem, but don’t criticise those who wish to return to a more equitable and just society, and were there to pay honour to a man who spent his life fighting for those ideals.

      • Andre 15.1.5
        3 September 2018 at 1:39 pm

        Thing is, all the sentiments that are “attacking Trump” are utterly banal, anodyne statements that would have been made in his eulogies under any circumstances, and none of them actually even mention the tangelo turdgoblin. It’s just the way the rotting halloween jack’o’lantern is such a despicable simulacrum of a human that makes those absolutely routine comments such a jarring contrast that it stands out to absolutely everybody.

  16. greywarshark 16
    3 September 2018 at 11:08 am

    Leading story on RadioNZ Home and News page of Top Stories.
    Business confidence ‘falling off a cliff’ – Bridges.

    I can’t see any mention of Twyford unveiling the first Kiwi build houses which was on the Radionz News this morning. At 6.42 am our Minister of Housing did something of note but it isn’t worth a place in interesting stories at the top. Tim Price did something at the horse trials though.

    However i have scrolled down through latest audio, which can find in black background at bottom of page on left.
    economy housing
    6:42 am today
    First Kiwibuild houses unveiled in Papakura
    From Morning Report, 6:42 am today Listen duration 3′ :21″
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018660801/first-kiwibuild-houses-unveiled-in-papakura

    The ballot for the first Kiwibuild homes ready for sale to first-home buyers opens a week from today. It runs for four weeks with the winners expected to be in their Papakura houses by Christmas.
    RNZ reporter Anneke Smith was at the unveiling of eighteen Kiwibuild houses on Sunday.

    (Note that the Minister’s name doesn’t appear in the precis. How bloody dismissive of our government. There is a thumbnail image but I can’t see how to transport that so have to look at the latest audio listing if you want to see it. Use the time to pinpoint it.)

    • cleangreen 16.1
      3 September 2018 at 11:25 am

      yes greywarshark,

      we do deperately need that new “pubklic service channel to get the Labour coalition message ut there.

      hurry up Labour sack the useless claire Curran and get a real minister to get our new free to air public service investigative jornalism channel going to finally expose akll national party corruption.

      All I saw this morning on the news was all about ‘Simple Somon Bridges’ on all three channels at once RNZ, TVone and newshub.

      I turned the TV off then.

      • Ngungukai 16.1.1
        3 September 2018 at 12:54 pm

        National and Slimey Bridges still monopolizing the Media Channels ????

      • Herodotus 16.1.2
        3 September 2018 at 1:07 pm

        What message is that ? That Labour govt are replicating what the previous Nat govt did ??
        Now we are told ok to creep over the 20% debt target, and that includes some trickery from Min Roberston – And the reason to be dodgy ?? Stephen Joyce did this (8:00 in) !!!!!!!
        https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a

    • dukeofurl 16.2
      3 September 2018 at 12:18 pm

      I thought RNZ headlined’ the first Kiwibuild home ‘yesterday’ ?
      That might explain why they ( more correctly their content computers) have shuffled it down today.

      • greywarshark 16.2.1
        3 September 2018 at 12:44 pm

        It was on the early news dukeofurl. I thought it was significant. It was as significant as anything that was listed for their Top Stories.

        If Radionz thought on a popular interest level well and I am not interested in clickbait, or what measures of interest is shown by the public to decide anything. Popular interest doesn’t trump journalistic nous and experience. On a channel representing the public, that item on housing should have been headlined above Bridges underpass.

    • Chris T 16.3
      3 September 2018 at 2:00 pm

      Would imagine it’s probably because it is 18 out of a promised 100,000 and don’t quote me on this because I have only heard this from non media related sources, that the building consents were granted under National

      As I say. Could be wrong on that one

      • greywarshark 16.3.1
        3 September 2018 at 3:37 pm

        Consents are one thing, completion is another. It was noted a year ago say that consents were not being followed up with building, and that consents had gone down as well.

  17. cleangreen 17
    3 September 2018 at 11:57 am

    Residential road noise gives NZTA a headache.

    Rumble strips on the side of highways are now a residential ‘noise pollution problem’ Accoding to this article they should not be used in an urban residential zoned area.

    http://info.scoop.co.nz/Expressway_Noise_Action_Group

    QUOTE
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/98594685/noise-complaints-see-kpiti-expressway-lose-its-rumble-strips

    “Kāpiti’s $630 million expressway is to lose half its rumble strips in an effort to placate sleep-deprived residents.
    Nick Fisher, of the Expressway Noise Action Group, said the work would go some way to helping noise-affected residents get a good night’s sleep, but it was a “monumental” waste of taxpayer money.”

    https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/audio-tactile-profiled-roadmarkings-guidelines/docs/atp-guidelines.pdf

    Effects of ATP (rumble strips) roadmarkings on heavy vehicles.
    Page 7.

    There is anecdotal evidence of some annoyance caused by ATP (rumble strips) roadmarkings on truck drivers.

    However, the change in noise levels and vibration levels when traversing ATP markings compared to being on unmarked roads are significantly less for trucks than for cars (Dravitzki 2009).

    It may be that the wider and longer heavy vehicles are more likely to run over ATP roadmarkings, causing a degree of annoyance over the course of a journey.

    There have also been reports of ATP roadmarkings causing damage to hubometers and that they may cause steering problems in some types of truck.

    Annoyance yes ask the people on the Kapiti Coast Expressway about rubble strips!!!!!!

    They must not be used in “noise sensitive residential zones such as thwe Kapiti or HB Expressway now hear that NZTA!!!!!!

    • McFlock 17.1
      3 September 2018 at 12:44 pm

      Next they’ll have a special “snooze” mode for the sirens that result when people drift out of their lane.

  18. marty mars 18
    3 September 2018 at 12:54 pm

    Worth noting this

    “…Federated Farmers as it encourages members to get elected onto Fish & Game’s 12 regional councils.
    … Fish & Game chief executive Martin Taylor said the idea seemed to be to get less progressive farmers on the councils “in order to stop Fish & Game pointing out that the intensive farming emperor has no clothes”.
    … He accused Feds of taking control of regional and district councils, such as Horizons, and trying to turn back the clock.”

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/106736921/fish–game-warn-of-farmers-move-to-blunt-environmental-message

  19. Chris T 19
    3 September 2018 at 2:04 pm

    This was always going to happen

    Personally think Ardern would have been better off biting the bullet and over riding Winston

    Soymun says he has sorted the woman in Bali

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/09/simon-bridges-says-he-s-arranged-for-abby-hartley-to-come-home.html

  20. chris73 20
    3 September 2018 at 2:13 pm

    Damn interesting speakers, Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f58qhCm8Cc

    • chris73 20.1
      3 September 2018 at 2:27 pm

      This is probably a better clip given how powerful the MSM is

      • joe90 20.1.1
        3 September 2018 at 2:31 pm

        Well, fascist’s hate a free press.

        Though 85 percent of Americans still believe “freedom of the press is essential to American democracy,” significant percentages now also believe the government should have the right to crack down on the press in ways decidedly antithetical to the 1st Amendment. For example, 48 percent of Republicans agree with Trump that the press is, in fact, “the enemy of the American people,” according to a recent
        Ipsos poll. (Remarkably, 12 percent of Democrats and 23 percent of Independents also agree.) Forty-three percent of Republicans now think the president should have the power even to shut down news organizations that, in his judgment, have “engaged in bad behavior.” In Trumpese, that means covering him with a critical, skeptical eye, the proper role for a journalist

        https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/08/17/trump-is-winning/?

      • McFlock 20.1.2
        3 September 2018 at 3:05 pm

        Well that was ten minutes of my life I’ll never get back. Taking invented problems as a given and coming up with reverse justifications about why those problems came about.

        But they lay a lot of shit in ten minutes for folks who claim that “long form discussions” are cheapened in a six minute format.

        Where’s the memo I missed about the “official narrative” I’m supposed to spout?

        • chris73 20.1.2.1
          3 September 2018 at 3:12 pm

          Somewhere in here I guess…might need a little more than 10 minutes though 🙂

          Quite good to have on in the background

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xc7DN-noAc
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T7pUEZfgdI
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USg3NR76XpQ

          • McFlock 20.1.2.1.1
            3 September 2018 at 3:22 pm

            for the next 9 hours?

            Yeah, nah.

            • chris73 20.1.2.1.1.1
              3 September 2018 at 3:33 pm

              9 pfft, try 12 and theres probably more 🙂

              • McFlock …
                3 September 2018 at 3:45 pm

                Most definitely.

                And if I turn into a terminally-insecure, sexually frustrated fool with a chip on my shoulder and a victim mentality, I might shut myself in a darkened room and watch them all.

                Until then, I guess…

                • chris73 …
                  3 September 2018 at 3:53 pm

                  Oh yeah he has some things to say about incels (or however its spelled), them and other drop kicks really need to listen to him

                  • Molly …
                    3 September 2018 at 4:46 pm

                    Chris73. Have listened to him enough, and read through one of his books when I was waiting for someone while in the library.

                    The reason why there is hundreds of hours of video is because his technique is to use analogies not to explain, but to justify his declarations. To do that, he has to womble on for a while so that listeners, start nodding their heads saying that’s right, he’s right, and when he comes up with a truly unjustified conclusion, they are already conditioned to agree.

                    His reasoning is to create a highly specific and unreal scenario, and present his own defined problem and solution.

                    He is not worth the time many spend on him, and unfortunately he provides simplistic answers to complex situations, and so seems admirable.

              • chris73 …
                3 September 2018 at 4:07 pm

                If you really want to know why he doesn’t use gender pronouns heres why, in his own words

                • Molly …
                  3 September 2018 at 4:48 pm

                  Since the clip is almost 17min long, don’t want to waste my time. But have watched him excuse this choice before.

                  Essentially, he doesn’t do it cause he doesn’t want to. His reasoning and emotions override everyone else’s. God forbid he takes into consideration the concerns of anyone else, or considers that his perspective is not the only one.

    • joe90 20.2
      3 September 2018 at 2:28 pm

      A continent’s history up in smoke.

      The National Museum of Rio is currently being consumed by flames. Over 20 million historical items are being lost before our eyes. I am so sad that I'm crying while I watch this. pic.twitter.com/C1XrwBLk3v— Marina Amaral (@marinamaral2) September 3, 2018

      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-fire-museum/rios-200-year-old-national-museum-hit-by-massive-fire-idUSKCN1LJ00L

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Brazil

      • greywarshark 20.2.1
        3 September 2018 at 8:19 pm

        Let’s split up our museums that record our past or we’ll lose it. We should train people to be like memory banks, and have them going around the country telling us historic tales like old time balladeers.

        • joe90 20.2.1.1
          3 September 2018 at 8:45 pm

          Pre-Columbian artifacts from across Latin America, founding documents, antiquities from Egypt and Greece, a fresco from Pompeii that survived Vesuvius.

          Gone for want of a dollar and a sprinkler system.

          For those who are asking about what Brazilian government is doing regarding the fire at @MuseuNacional below is the budget of the museum in the last year. The museum (historic building, old royal palace) was managed by the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro. pic.twitter.com/gCqIbgcIQf— Dr. Ana Lucia Araujo (@analuciaraujo_) September 3, 2018

          Marina Silva, a former environment minister and candidate in October’s presidential elections said the fire was like “a lobotomy of the Brazilian memory”.

          Luiz Duarte, another vice-director, told TV Globo: “It is an unbearable catastrophe. It is 200 years of this country’s heritage. It is 200 years of memory. It is 200 years of science. It is 200 years of culture, of education.” TV Globo also reported that some firefighters did not have enough water to battle the blaze.

          […]

          At the scene, several indigenous people gathered and criticised the fact that the museum containing their most precious artefacts has burned down seemingly because there was no money for maintenance of hydrants, yet the city had recently managed to find a huge budget to build a brand new museum of tomorrow. A crowd of several dozen people outside the gates, several of whom were clearly distraught. Others blamed the government’s austerity policies and corruption.

          Rio’s fire chief Colonel Roberto Robaday said the firefighters did not have enough water at first because two hydrants were dry. “The two nearest hydrants had no supplies,” he said. Water trucks were brought in and water used from a nearby lake. “This is an old building,” he said, “with a lot of flammable material, lots of wood and the documents and the archive itself.”

          https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/03/fire-engulfs-brazil-national-museum-rio

          • greywarshark 20.2.1.1.1
            3 September 2018 at 9:15 pm

            A museum of tomorrow, a space rocket to Mars, a monument that ‘John built’ to WW1, already well remembered. Yet the basics, the base on which the special artifacts are displayed.? That’s too prosaic a consideration.

            Don’t blame the politicians and agency leaders – blame the parents who never taught their children to think of anything else but their own high living. Never think of the joyous, generous, kindly soul that is in children but needs nurturing. Instead it’s Picture of Dorian Gray stuff; wishing away the everyday cares that meeting promises and making best decisions in awkward circumstances burden the caring and line their faces, but also along with laugh lines.

  22. Morrissey 22
    3 September 2018 at 5:30 pm

    Isn’t It Blatantly Obvious that the Burning Question in the World Today is Anti-Semitism in the UK?

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/08/27/isnt-it-blatantly-obvious-that-the-burning-question-in-the-world-today-is-anti-semitism-in-the-uk/