Open Mike 03/07/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 3rd, 2017 - 48 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

48 comments on “Open Mike 03/07/2017”

  1. Ad 1

    A little quote from Dr Jim McAloon from Vic in June 2015:

    “Labour’s interest will not be served by simply waiting for the wheels to fall off the Key government (which may or may not happen in 2017—Labour underestimates John Key at its peril). To fulfil its purpose, Labour has to lift its share of the vote well above 35 per cent.

    Non-voters are one target. Parts of National’s ‘soft’ vote are another.

    Rather than the sometimes facile suggestions that Labour’s current troubles are the consequence of being either excessively or insufficiently Left-wing, increasing the vote means convincing enough people that the party’s fundamental values are meaningful to them today and in the future.”

    Can Labour make 35% this time?

    • BM 1.1


      Andrew Little
      No policy detail
      Unrealistic “promises”
      Contradictory statements/announcements/actions
      MOU with the Greens

      • Nick 1.1.1


        Andrew Little
        policy detail
        realistic “promises”
        Not Contradictory statements/announcements/actions
        MOU with the Greens

        • Halfcrown

          Don’t bite Nick BM is only fishing or winding up.

          • greywarshark

            If only we could harness the winding up provided by all these trolls and RW afficionados we could power a wind farm which in turn would power our slightly brighter future, that we must achieve of back to the future of a new Dark Age.

      • mpledger 1.1.2

        Hilarious – National are full of unrealistic promises e.g. their predator free by 2050 policy. It means they can suck eggs now and let someone else deal with and pay for it later, if they can. In 30 or so years they’ll be dead or too senile to care that they stuffed around so much that a ton of species died because they would rather give tax cuts then fund the Conservation Department properly.

        And I can even write Bill English and. Trustworthy in the same sentence. And if you disagree go and relive last week again.

      • BM pictures himself as a spanner in the works where he’s really no more than an engineer’s used tissue, chewed to shreds by the cogs’ teeth.

    • savenz 1.2

      Can Labour make 35% this time? – of course they can. Look at Corbyn massive turn around in weeks.

      But it is ultimately votes who decide. So if voters want the change of government the voters need to make it happen with unconditional support. Yep, Labour and Greens are not perfect, BUT National is a very scary party and getting worse with their unbridled level of power.

      Now we have Thiel a Trump supporter (yep pro wall, anti women and muslims) and anti democracy billionaire being wooed by the National party and given citizenship here, even though he doesn’t want to live here!

      We have migrants that have worked hard to get citizenship here, people who live here 365 days of the year paying taxes, people in poverty, people being poisoned by Meth that has become a thriving industry since The National Party took over and residents who can not afford to rent or buy here anymore with the increasing prices foreign ownership and National party policy it is driving. Now our state houses are even been sold off cheap to Banks and finance people who set up charities as ‘fronts’. It’s obscene. National don’t even care what people think anymore.

      Every vote against National counts. Because even if Labour does not win, then voters against them dilute their power to do the massive damage to our country.

  2. Penny Bright 2

    (Turbo-charge in the broomstick over-heated and now it’s buggered 🙁

    I need a hand.


    I’ve been given the great honour of being invited to attend the 2017 World Justice Project ‘Rule of Law’ Forum at The Hague, 10 – 13 July 2017.

    Although as an outspoken ‘anti-privatisation / anti-corruption campaigner / investigative activist /whistle- blower’ I usually face significant mainstream NZ media ‘censorship’ – internationally it seems that my work has not gone unnoticed.

    (For the last three years I have participated in the World Justice Project ‘Rule of Law Index’ as an NZ ‘expert’, and I have attended 6 International Anti-Corruption Conferences.)

    This is a HUGE chance to tell fellow ‘Rule of Law experts’ from potentially 130 countries – the TRUTH about how undeserved is NZ’s ‘perceived’ status as ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ according to the 2016 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’.

    I’m not scared to speak out.

    Need to ‘seize the moment!’

    This World Justice Forum
    (10 – 13 July 2017) is NOT funded.

    It is my intention to fly out 6 July and return 16 July.

    The approximate costs are:

    Registration $200(donated)

    Accommodation at Student ‘hostel’
    NZ $63 per night.
    (X 8 $504

    Air travel (return)
    Auckland – Amsterdam
    Amsterdam – Rotterdam
    Rotterdam – The Hague

    Ball park $4000

    (The sooner I can book my air fares – the cheaper it will be).

    How much do I need?

    $5000 should do it.

    That’s 500 X $10
    250 X $20
    100 X $50
    50 X $100

    I have over 3,300 Facebook friends.

    This is NOT a big ask?

    For those of you who have helped me in the past – THANK YOU! (Again 🙂

    As you know I choose to work full time on a self-funded basis (flat mate income), no benefit or funding from any source apart from occasional donations when I’m stuck and need a hand and I have done this since 2000 (17 years).


    To get to The Hague I do need a hand.

    If you choose to help and are able – please send me a personal message on Facebook / Messenger and I will send you my bank account details.

    Let’s DO IT!

    Help send ‘Her Warship’ to The Hague!

    Kind regards

    Penny Bright

  3. patricia bremner 3

    You are looking at English BM. He lied by omission, covered up for Barclay, cut him loose when it got difficult, didn’t support a person who had worked for him for years.
    NOT P.M. material at all.

    • tc 3.1

      One of the many successes of the shonky/dirty politics era is to lower the bar for every govt minister.

      Its to the point that blinglish’s behaviour is predictably of a low standard and most reasonable people arent surprised by this level of leadership from national.

  4. greywarshark 4

    Looking at Wikipedia on the Grenfell fire, seems a good overview.

    Residents expressed significant safety concerns prior to the fire, with criticism levelled against the council for fire safety and building maintenance failures.[32] They had also said repeatedly that in the event of a fire, their escape path was limited to a single staircase.[16]

    Exposed gas pipes were another concern raised by the Grenfell Tower Leaseholders’ Association in the months before the fire; while a fire safety expert had ordered them to be covered by fire-retardant boxing, two-thirds remained exposed at the time of the fire.[33]

    There is concern that cuts to Legal aid prevented tenants and tenants’ groups taking legal action over their safety concerns. Robert Bourns of The Law Society said, “There have been reports that tenants of Grenfell Tower were unable to access legal aid to challenge safety concerns because of the cuts. If that is the case then we may have a very stark example of what limiting legal aid can mean.”[34]…

    ITV business editor Joel Hills stated that he had been told that the installation of sprinklers had not even been discussed.[20] In a 2012 report, the British Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association said that sprinklers could be retrofitted in Grenfell Tower for an average cost of £1,150 per flat, which would have added up to a total cost of £138,000 for the whole block….[38]

    Plans for the renovation were publicised in 2012.[18] Overseen by Studio E Architects,[19] the £8.7 million refurbishment,[20] undertaken by Rydon Ltd…
    …new aluminium composite rainscreen cladding, in part to improve the appearance of the building.[24] Two types were used: Arconic’s Reynobond, which consists of two, coil-coated, aluminium sheets that are fusion bonded to both sides of a polyethylene core; and Reynolux aluminium sheets. Beneath these, and fixed to the outside of the walls of the flats, was Celotex RS5000 PIR thermal insulation.[25][26][27][28] The work was carried out by Harley Facades of Crowborough, East Sussex, at a cost of £2.6 million. (The project cost included new windows and:
    The renovation included a water-based heating system for individual flats.)
    My question – If water was being piped to heaters, it would seem to have been cost-effective and efficient if extended to sprinkler systems?

    The UK government is accused of having ignored warnings about fire safety in tower blocks.[39] A former chief fire officer and secretary of the all-party parliamentary group on fire safety, Ronnie King, said ministers stonewalled requests for meetings and efforts to tighten rules….

    [After] the 2009 Lakanal House fire, the coroner made a series of safety recommendations for the government to consider, and the Department for Communities and Local Government agreed to hold a review in 2013. In March 2014, the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety & Rescue Group sent a letter to then–Minister for Communities Stephen Williams, which said in part:

    “Surely … when you already have credible evidence to justify updating … the guidance … which will lead to saving of lives, you don’t need to wait another three years in addition to the two already spent since the research findings were updated, in order to take action?
    “As there are estimated to be another 4,000 older tower blocks in the UK, without automatic sprinkler protection, can we really afford to wait for another tragedy to occur before we amend this weakness?”[41]…

    A residents’ organisation, Grenfell Action Group (GAG), published a blog in which it highlighted major safety problems. In 2013, the group published a 2012 fire risk assessment done by a TMO Health and Safety Officer which recorded safety concerns. Firefighting equipment at the tower had not been checked for up to four years; on-site fire extinguishers had expired, and some had the word “condemned” written on them because they were so old. GAG documented its attempts to contact KCTMO management; they also alerted the council Cabinet Member for Housing and Property but said they never received a reply from him or his deputy.[43][44]

    The casualty statistics:
    On 28 June, the authorities stated that there were known survivors from 106 of the tower’s 129 flats; eighteen people among the occupants of these flats were reported as dead or missing presumed dead, whereas most of those killed were said to have been in the remaining 23 flats between the 11th and 23rd floors….

    A total of 151 homes were destroyed in the tower and surrounding area. The incident ranks as the deadliest structural fire in the United Kingdom since the start of the 20th century, when detailed records began

    Note: Other buildings and deaths were involved in the “surrounding area” which I hadn’t heard much about.

    It’s the “deadliest structural fire” etc. illustrates how over the years responsible safety laws and measures get watered down, ignored, fudged and those supposedly responsible get complacent because nothing has ever happened, and the preventative idea becomes a nice-to-have. Keeping vigilant over all of our sensible thoughtful laws and systems is obviously a grassroots basic bit of life education we need to absorb through our pores, and connect to the brain.

    • McFlock 4.1

      The tragedy is a wake-up call to everyone who thought that creeping cuts didn’t really affect people. The fact is, as this shows, cuts to random areas multiply hazards. Everything from cladding change, to fire suppression, to fire service, even to legal aid, all of it worked together to create this tragedy, each cut being viewed individually.

      • savenz 4.1.1

        +1 McFlock – all the ‘small’ changes add up. That is why piecemeal policy is not effective and even the current ‘process’ way of making decisions. Yep, it might work in a box factory having everybody doing a little task without knowing what the result might be as a sum, but it’s the big picture that counts and results in real life.

        With tragic results.

        We have had our Grenfell with Pike river and the CTV building, and it is people who must hold the government to account for the Pike river deaths AND their lack of interest in them or any justice to them and question our justice system over CTV building deaths.

        • outofbed

          Just got back from London drove on westway past grenfell. Just horrible if ever there was a monument to Tory governments and there attitudes to poor People . There it is. We need to fight really hard where ever we are to make our society fair and safe for all. Look at that tower, and get motivated for this September’s fight.

  5. joe90 5

    Scroll to replies below Sinyangwe’s initial thread.

    First day in Barbados and we drove past this monument three times. I've never seen anything like it. (1/x)— Samuel Sinyangwe (@samswey) July 2, 2017

    • ianmac 5.1

      Actually I neither heard nor saw any mention of the residents of Barbados during the Americas Cup. They invested $100million in the Infrastructure but what about the locals? Good fun for them was it?

  6. greywarshark 6

    Eddication, edification, elucidation – something….
    The government thinks that we have a suficiently satisfactory education system to keep us in our place, which is competing with the rest of the world for the job placements going which are at present good payers. And lining up with the hundreds for advertised jobs at supermarket: literacy and numeracy a must!

    Actually the status of turmoil that the world and the use of competitive technology
    puts us in, requires better understanding and wider education than ever before not simplified spam handed out letter by letter and screen by screen by a machine responding to the requests for information that it itself produces so limiting thinking, self-enquiry and self-discovery.

    So help the educators hold onto what we have now otherwise they will be swamped and end up on a little promontory with their main skills being needed to keep themselves alive and to jump nimbly from one precarious situation to another.
    Keep it Public!
    Public tertiary education gives all New Zealanders the opportunity to develop skills, learn trades, and create knowledge which helps our families, communities and economy.

    But Paul Goldsmith, the Minister for Tertiary Education, is trying to change the law to take public funds away from our universities, polytechs and wānanga and hand them to private companies who are more concerned with profit than providing quality education.

    Together, let’s make sure tertiary education stays public, local and focused on learning.
    They want a minimum of 4,000 signatures. Please support. See link above.

    This would be the single biggest change to tertiary education funding in a generation. If enough of us speak out, then together we can stop it happening.
    By pledging to support public tertiary education you will be adding your voice to the many others that want to keep tertiary education public, local, and focused on learning, not profit.

    Tertiary education belongs to all of us. Now is the time to tell Paul Goldsmith you want it to stay that way.
    Keep it Public!

    Don’t leave our educators all alone, stranded, and our good education being decimated by private business.
    Need you

  7. Molly 7

    Have your say on the Scoop Hivemind discussion on housing.

    Add your own statements to the discussion as well.

  8. mauī 9

    Trumps best tweet so far #FraudNewsCNN

  9. joe90 10

    True too form, it seems the pumpkin pinochet has climbed into bed with the very worst so he can fuck over ordinary folk.


    Now a Four Corners investigation will reveal how Donald Trump, as he was closing in on his political rivals, was negotiating luxury resort deals in Bali and Java, raising serious questions about presidential conflicts of interest.

    “The project is going to be a huge one, a mega project.” Landowner

    In Bali, plans are under way to Trumpify one of the most iconic and sacred sites in Bali – Tanah Lot. But curiously, for a tourist destination usually keen to talk up what the island paradise has to offer, government officials are not keen to talk about the proposed Trump Tower development.

    “I can’t talk about this. I cannot talk about this.” Balinese government official.

    In a second development on Java, the deal to build a massive gaudy theme park and resort development has been inked, leaving local farmers frightened of what the future holds.

    “When the financial power of Trump comes here, we the original people who live here are powerless. Their enormous wealth buys enormous influence.”

    Four Corners investigates how these deals were done through an unholy alliance formed between Donald Trump and controversial business and political figures in Indonesia.

    Trump’s business partners have a troubling history with ties to the corrupt Suharto regime.

    While at home in the United States, President Trump rails against Islamic extremism. In Indonesia, he has formed political alliances with politicians aligned with Islamist forces.

    “He is dealing with the worst of Indonesia’s past, and he is going to deal with the worst of Indonesia’s future, the Islamists. I think Donald Trump is going to get his businesses messier and also Indonesia messier.” Human rights investigator.

    edit: trailer from Four Corners FB page.

  10. Stunned Mullet 11

    If you and yours aren’t vaccinated and have no medical reason why you can’t be vaccinated and haven’t had mumps before can you please pop down to your GP and have a shot.

    • greywarshark 11.1

      Yes can we have some bravery about this – the odds that anything bad will happen because of the mumps vaccination is small. Only if you are already sick, ask your GPs opinion.

  11. Treetop 12

    I really hope that Pora is awarded the adjusted inflation compensation approx $500,000. It is way overdue that the huge injustice done to him is settled as much as it can be.

    I do not want to see anymore of his life wasted on holding those to account for what he has been put through. Those who hold the power to give closure MUST not misuse their power.

    To often the forgotten are expected to forgive their persecutor and somehow get over it. E.g. those who were abused in statecare or sexually assaulted in childhood.

    An inquiry is necesssary because an inquiry is what maybe the only thing which gives as much healing that can be given.

    I have thought about Alison (story seen on the Nation last Saturday) who was committed into psychiatric care from 1950 – 1990 when aged 11, she was sexually assaulted, shock treated, put into isolation…. Alison had a brain injury from contracting chicken pocks when she was a toddler, she was never mentally disordered. I am troubled by how she was treated by the standards of the years 1950 – 1990; not much has changed.

    I would like to see a comprehensive inquiry into how her life was turned inside out and upside down. Alison is now 75 and she is in the last part of her life. She is a courageous woman. I really hope that she gets all her questions answered. Even though she has had some compensation in 1990, this would have been minimal compared to what she deserves.

    How much is 40 years being imprisoned worth?

    • Cinny 12.1

      “How much is 40 years being imprisoned worth?”

      40 years is a life time for some, life is priceless. Least I tell my kids I wouldn’t swap them for all the riches on the planet, with that in mind, both Teina and Alison deserve the world.

      That story disturbed me as well Treetop, the most vulnerable exploited, it’s a disgusting abuse of justice.

  12. Cinny 13

    Haley Holt, you are an incredibly brave woman. Your story will resonate with many women, THANK YOU, you are enormously courageous by making it so public

    When I watched Sunday last night, your story is near on identical to a dear friend of mine, a dear friend but I just can’t stand to be around when she is drinking, in fact her behaviour has turned me off booze. Will share with her, it may just change her life.

    Hayley you are even more amazing for your honesty. MASSIVE RESPECT.

    • ianmac 14.1

      Too true Xanthe. Vaguely read something about the issue a few days ago but glossed over it but now…..

    • AsleepWhileWalking 14.2

      I thought it was gone but I read it too.

      I’m sure it will be investigated by someone to prove it were true or not. After all the allegations are serious and although historic a crime is a crime.

      Although they may have limited the sharing I bet there are lots of screen shots still in existence.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 14.2.1

        In any case what happens if this guy Farrell swears an affidavit? Does the fact that he is making the claims against a minister mean it is just ignored without trial?

        • weka

          He’d need to lay a complaint with the police in order for it to be investigated. Unless the media pick it up and it becomes a public interest issue that the govt can’t make go away. Which I would guess is why he’s approaching it this way. I expect Bennett will go hard out with the lawyers though.

          • AsleepWhileWalking

            Hmmm. I thought only MSD could lay charges.

            In any case his mistake (if you can call it that) was to share it with MSM.

            • weka

              I see what you mean. I don’t know about that, especially as it’s an historic case.

              why was that a mistake?

  13. greywarshark 15

    There’s always trouble at mill, and elsewhere. Big employers are refusing to employ subbies/ employees if they have been involved in disputes. That’s interesting, they don’t want to take on all the work themselves, contract it out, and then take the power out of the contractors hands.

  14. [deleted]

    [Firefox gives me a security warning on that site, so I’m not going to look at it. But please don’t post to sites that are publishing the allegations. Putting you into moderation until I see an acknowledgement of this. – weka]

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