Open Mike 04/01/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, January 4th, 2017 - 195 comments
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195 comments on “Open Mike 04/01/2017 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    4 January 2017 at 6:53 am

    “I support the rule of international law therefore I recognise the Assad led government as the legitimate sovereign government of Syria,…..

    Colonial Viper

    https://thestandard.org.nz/the-return-of-kim-dotcom-and-the-internet-party-and-the-nz-journalist-seeking-asylum-in-russia/#comment-1281993

    And there in, lies the difference between a National Socialist, and an International Socialist.

    Never have a couple of syllables held such portent.

    • mikesh 1.1
      4 January 2017 at 7:51 am

      There’s nothing like a spot of Godwinism to settle an argument , eh.

    • reason 1.2
      4 January 2017 at 3:22 pm

      ” the White Helmets in Syria have been filmed on numerous occasions working alongside terrorist groups and that members of the White Helmets have participated in executions, torture, driving vehicles for terrorists, providing propaganda for jihadist groups, conducting false flags and brandishing weapons in combat.”

      “Two young Sunni Syrian soldiers from Aleppo were beaten and executed by Jaish Al Fattah rebels in Aleppo. Jaish Fattah, a coalition of US backed rebel groups and al-Qaeda (Jabhat al- Nusra). The video of the soldiers being humiliated was posted by a member of the White Helmets, which the US supplied $23 million dollars to through the USAID program, as stated by US State Department spokesperson John Kirby”.

      ” In the video a White Helmet member can be seen wearing a White Helmet shirt while conducting operations ‘shoulder to shoulder’ with al-Zinki terrorists. This is the same group that beheaded a 12 year old Palestinian boy in the back of a truck in July 2016. The White Helmet member is visible at the 2:27 mark. http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/huge-video-and-data-cache-on-the-fake-ngo-syrian-white-helmet-jihadists/

      The u.s.a has a long long history of training and working with the most brutal & perverse killers and death squads in modern history ….. “The UN Truth Commission found that the units guilty of the worst atrocities, like the Atlacatl Battalion which conducted the infamous El Mozote massacre, were precisely the ones most closely supervised by American advisers. The American role in this campaign of state terrorism is now hailed by senior U.S. military officers as a model ….”
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxHEI603bF4

      This documentary shows how the savagery they cultivated in South America was brought down on the poor people of Iraq …. Death squads and torture, fueling hatred and helping Isis recruitment https://www.youtube.com
      /watch?v=BxHEI603bF4

      This doco shows the u.s.a war effort in Afghanistan includes very evil stuff …..such as protecting Local police units which rape and murder young boys, kidnap and rob from civilians, and get off their faces on Heroin while firing machine and other weapons blindly in the direction of children …. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5Q75hf6QI ……

      On a slightly more positive note here’s a shorter doco on foreign fighters who have come to help the Kurds in their battle for survival against Isis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoqds4LV9RI ….. I do hope the Kurds do not get shafted when peace finally comes …….as they were the first fighters to start inflicting defeats and rolling back Isis.

      Horrible powerful Foreign leaders prepared to extend the fighting until the last Syrian is dead are now the biggest problem in stopping the killing …………

      Syria needs a huge effort for peace and justice ………. not death squads and surface to air missiles in the hands of terrorists ….

      Reconstruction not destruction ….

      • Psycho Milt 1.2.1
        4 January 2017 at 4:05 pm

        The u.s.a has a long long history of training and working with the most brutal & perverse killers and death squads in modern history …

        Funny you should mention that, as the USA’s appalling activities in central America in the early 1980s were an exact match with CV’s position:

        I support the rule of international law therefore I recognise the Assad led government as the legitimate sovereign government of Syria, and I recognise that the foreign (US/Saudi/Qatar/Turkey) sponsored proxy war against that government as totally illegal.

        Those governments the USA was helping in central America were the “legitimate, sovereign governments” of those countries and the foreign (Soviet Union and China) sponsored proxy wars against those governments were totally illegal. Funnily enough, history isn’t on the side of the USA’s “assistance” of those “legitimate, sovereign governments,” any more than it will be on the side of Russia and Iran’s assistance of the Assad regime.

        • reason 1.2.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 10:01 pm

          Have you been hitting yourself in the head with a big thick stupid stick Psycho ? …. are you seriously saying u.s.a sponsored coups make legitimate governments ? ????

          Afghanistan: In the 1980s, the U.S. worked with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to overthrow Afghanistan’s socialist government.

          Argentina: … soon after the military junta seized power in Argentina. Kissinger explicitly approved the junta’s “dirty war,” in which it eventually killed up to 30,000, most of them young people, and stole 400 children from the families of their murdered parents …

          Brazil: …In 1964, General Castelo Branco led a coup that sparked 20 years of brutal military dictatorship……. Like other victims of U.S.-backed coups in Latin America, the elected President Joao Goulart was a wealthy landowner, not a communist,

          Cambodia:….. When President Nixon ordered the secret and illegal bombing of Cambodia in 1969, American pilots were ordered to falsify their logs to conceal their crimes. They killed at least half a million Cambodians, …. the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency provided the Khmer Rouge with satellite intelligence, while U.S. and British special forces trained them to lay millions of land mines across Western Cambodia which still kill or maim hundreds of people every year.

          Chile: …. After General Pinochet seized power, the CIA kept Chilean officials on its payroll and worked closely with Chile’s DINA intelligence agency as the military government killed thousands of people and jailed and tortured tens of thousands more.

          El Salvador: … “During the morning, they proceeded to interrogate, torture, and execute the men in several locations.[8] Around noon, they began taking the women and older girls in groups, separating them from their children and machinegunning them after raping them.[9] Girls as young as 10 were raped, with soldiers reportedly heard bragging how they especially liked the 12-year-old girls.[10] Finally, they killed the children at first by slitting their throats, then by hanging them from trees, with one child as young as two years old.[11] After killing the entire population, the soldiers set fire to the buildings…….The American role in this campaign of state terrorism is now hailed by senior U.S. military officers as a model for “counter-insurgency” in Colombia and elsewhere as the U.S. war on terror spreads its violence and chaos across the world.

          El Salvador is very closely linked to Iraq …. and the u.s.a trained murder/rape/torture squads almost necessitated a Isis like organization to protect the Sunni population …

          I notice you do not mention anything about possible peace solutions in your reply …. which makes me think you do not really give a stuff about the poor people of Syria …. or Iraq …. or Libya

          War pigs give me the shits ……………

          You could negotiate a Wayne Mapp style trade deal …… This is what he offers from NZ as bargaining chips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8veOzd39VWI

          • Psycho Milt 1.2.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 10:10 pm

            Have you been hitting yourself in the head with a big thick stupid stick Psycho ? …. are you seriously saying u.s.a sponsored coups make legitimate governments ? ????

            If you try actually reading the comment, it referred to Colonial Viper’s claim that he recognises the Assad regime as the “legitimate, sovereign government” of Syria because international law says it is. International law says a lot of very unpleasant dictatorships have been legitimate, sovereign governments, so if you don’t like CV recognising and supporting them all, take it up with him.

    • Jenny 1.3
      5 January 2017 at 1:00 am

      “I support the rule of international law therefore I recognise the Assad led government as the legitimate sovereign government of Syria,…..”
      Colonial Viper

      National Socialists think the sanctity of the nation is sacrosanct.

      International Socialists think the idea of nations is a social construct and of little value.

      National Socialists believe that nation and race are imutable.

      International Socialists believe that concepts like nation and race are fluid and changeable.

      National socialists advocate war to protect the interests of a nation from its (internal, and external) enemies.

      International Socialists advocate the abolition of the nation state, and the end of war.

      John Lennon sang: “Imagine there is no countries” “Nothing to kill or die for”

      But what does all this idealistic theory mean in practice in the real world we live in, where nation states are a political reality?

      Firstly; it means that socialists oppose all wars of imperial invasion and aggression, (like the invasion of Iraq by the US and its allies, for instance).

      Secondly, it means that socialists support all people attempting to libererate themselves from oppression from their own nation state, and support their right to overthrow that state. And also support their right to work with whoever they choose to help them achieve that end.

      The example of Roger Casement comes to mind. Roger Casement was an Irishman who worked for the British Empire in the Foreign Civil Service mainly in Africa for twenty years and even gained a British Knighthood for his work. But over this long period witnessing the affects of imperialism first hand he slowly grew to hate and despise it.

      On returning to his homeland Casement used his diplomatic contacts to get the German Empire, which was at war with the British Empire, to supply the Irish rebels with 20 thousand rifles. Unfortunately in attempting to land these vitally needed arms in Ireland, Casement was captured by the RIC and handed over to the British and was hanged for treason.

      British propaganda depicted Casement as an agent of the Germans. A charge Casement strongly denied in his trial for treason against “The British Crown”.

      The other case that comes to mind is that of the Russian Bolshevik leader VI Lenin. When the 1917 revolt first broke out, Lenin was still in exile in Europe, prevented from traveling to Russia by the French and British allies of the Russian Empire, Lenin made a deal with the Germans, who agreed to transport Lenin through German lines and into Russia. The German interest was to weaken the British and Russian Empires from within. The trade off for Lenin in particular was that he was accused just like Casement was of being a German agent. Lenin was able to stare down these accusations and gained the trust of the Russian people and successfully led the Revolution to its victory over the Russian Tsarist, Lenin;s first move was to pull Russia out of the war, which helped bring that Imperialist conflict to conclusion.

      There was echoes of this propaganda back here in New Zealand. Princess Te Puea was leading her Tainui people in a campaign against conscription for same Imperialist conflict. Te Puea was also accused of being a German agent, on the flimsy evidence that her grandfather was a German. Even though her Granfather had died when Te Puea was still a child.

      So what has all this got to do with Syria and Colonial Viper, which is what I was leading up to?

      CV is comfortable and accepts the fact that the regime of Bashar Assad detains and tortures and kills (in his own words) “scores of Syrians a year”. CV also supports the aerial genocide being carried out by the regime against the Syrian people because he alleges (with little proof) that the regime is the victim of US and NATO invasion and regime change.

      CV condemns and attacks the rebels for accepting money and weapons from some of the funda mentalist Arab States like Saudi Arabia which is allied with the US.

      Singled out by CV and other Assadists for their particular hate, and marked for death, is the volunteer search and rescue organisation known as the White Helmets, because the White Helmets receive funding from US sources.

      This is why I determine Colonial Viper to be a National Socialist or fascist.

      But really he makes this determination for himself.

      http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=roger+casement+song&&view=detail&mid=8161BACE9A7A1FFD4ACE8161BACE9A7A1FFD4ACE&rvsmid=63D2E6337448E4D97C9C63D2E6337448E4D97C9C&fsscr=0&FORM=VDQVAP

    • mikesh 2.1
      4 January 2017 at 8:10 am

      More Godwinism.
      No doubt there are many good reasons for criticizing Trump, but his apparent intention of establishing a good relationship with Putin is probably worthy of praise.

      • Sanctuary 2.1.1
        4 January 2017 at 9:24 am

        Two rightwing strongmen cosying up is hardly worthy of praise. Thinking about Trump’s rapprochement with Putin, it is certainly potentially the death of NATO. NATO, as a German friend of mine put it, is a three leg stool about “…keeping the Germans down, the Americans in and the Russians out”.

        Angela Merkel (who is popular now but will be very harshly judged by history IMHO) wrecked the first leg with her rigid neoliberalism and the turning of the common currency into a giant Ponzi scheme with Germany at the top, in the process destablising the EU (the beginning of the roll for Brexit was the shock amongst both conservative and liberal intellectuals in the UK at the ruthless German crushing of the Greeks. The British have a long romantic attachment to the Greeks and the Aegean from Shelley to Churchill, and being an island they have a long, bloody minded history of not taking orders from continentals) which has made Germany much richer but has badly weakened the EU and therefore NATO as collateral damage. The result of Merkel’s economic policies may be Germany having to confront the Russians alone.

        The election of Trump has at least called the second leg into question. Trump is probably right to question the extension of the US-NATO nuclear guarantee to the Balts and the unstable ex-Warsaw pact countries. Estonia or Bulgaria or Slovakia are not so important to US security as to trigger a nuclear war if attacked by Russia. That has been common sense real politik since Yalta. The Swedes, at least, have worked this out and are reintroducing conscription from 2018. NATO should NEVER have expanded east.

        So all that is left is keeping the Russians out. That is what makes the Baltic countries such a flash point. If Russia can over run those countries Crimea style (About a third of the population of Estonia and half of Latvias is ethnic Russians) with just an ineffectual NATO response, NATO’s credibility will collapse. So if the Americans under Trump won’t defend the Balts, that means the Germans will have to – I see in the 2016 budget they have increased defense spending by 15% and set aside 10 billion Euros for new weapons and another 10 billion for arming neighbours. 4,000 NATO troops are already in Estonia.

        My pick is before the end of the decade is Putin will try in on in a Baltic country, probably Latvia, and the Russians will be easily defeated by the Germans, Germany will form a Nordic alliance (Germany, Denmark, Norway, Finland the Balts and possibly Poland and the Dutch and French) outside NATO and NATO will become a relic.

        • Bill 2.1.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 9:58 am

          Why is an assumption that present day Russia covets “the Baltic” states embedded in your comment Sanctuary? Any, even circumstantial evidence to underpin that?

          btw – I don’t think you can reasonably throw Crimea into the mix (if you were going to) any more than you can throw the US’s major naval base in Bahrain into the mix if looking at US territorial designs. My point being that the US and EU turned a blind eye to a swift military incursion by Saudi Arabia into Bahrain to quell that country’s ‘Arab Spring back in 2011… (whereas Russia didn’t have a proxy to use in Crimea)

          • Sanctuary 2.1.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 11:36 am

            Well, first you should acquaint yourself with a map of the Baltic. Once equipped with this handy tool, I suggest you take a look at how Russia might obtain access to the Baltic sea (let alone further afield), should the entire fucking coastline of it’s near abroad be controlled by it’s rivals.

            Why, pray tell, do you think Putin invaded the Crimea? Because he likes the wine? Or because he wanted to get back the huge ex-Soviet naval base at Sevastopol? What, do you think, is behind Russia playing footsies with the hardline regime in Turkey? I’ll give you a hint: it is wet, salty and runs past Istanbul all the way to the Mediterranean.

            Putin saw the fall of the USSR from the KGB HQ in Dresden, and he drew all the wrong lessons. He is an old school Russian expansionist who has gone back to the autocratic, democracy hating, reactionary Tsarist ways of the past. He wants a new Russian Empire.

            • Bill 2.1.1.1.1.1
              4 January 2017 at 11:49 am

              Via both Baltiysk (ice free) and Kronshtadt offer access.

              Crimea was to secure access to the Med just as, from a US perspective, the ‘green lighting’ of Saudi Arabia’s invasion of Bahrain was to secure the 5th Fleet’s base.

              If Russia is to be condemned for ‘playing footsie’ with Turkey, what then of the EU’s courting and what of the fact Turkey’s a NATO member state? The motivations and what not behind those things somehow to be judged differently? If so, why?

              And again, what evidence is there to suggest present day Russia is seeking empire? Is there a shopping list of expansionist invasion and military adventurism I’m not familiar with?

              • Sanctuary …
                4 January 2017 at 12:29 pm

                You, my friend, are a naive fool. This isn’t a zero sum game of equally bad people. Unlike you, I visited Eastern Europe when the Soviet Union controlled it. Trust me, you’ll prefer western liberal democracy and that means supporting those countries that practice it against kleptocrats, thugs and dictators like Putin, Duerte, Erdoğan, Xi Jinping and all the rest of them.

                • Bill …
                  4 January 2017 at 12:38 pm

                  Did I voice some preference or hankering to live in a reincarnated USSR?

                  The rest of your comment looks to be wandering towards an intellectual and moral morass. And on another day I’d have ventured, but not today. Gotta be off.

                  Have a good one.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  4 January 2017 at 12:38 pm

                  you’ll prefer western liberal democracy and that means supporting those countries that practice it against klepotcrats, thugs and dictators like Putin

                  The problem being that the countries that are against Putin happen to be controlled by kleptocrats, dictators, and thugs. That’s what Western democracy pretty much means now.

                  Even Ceaser was popular to some degree because the loot that his armies stole from the periphery was reasonably well distributed out in the centre. It’s how empires have always worked and how the US Empire works now.

                • One Two …
                  4 January 2017 at 2:20 pm

                  The insult says you are a speculator, a slogger of personal opinion without the confidence

                  Evidence:” Unlike you I visited Eastern Europe….”

                  Trust you or your insult laced opinion?

                  That would be foolishly naive!

          • Psycho Milt 2.1.1.1.2
            4 January 2017 at 4:15 pm

            Why is an assumption that present day Russia covets “the Baltic” states embedded in your comment Sanctuary? Any, even circumstantial evidence to underpin that?

            Er, the last few centuries? The fact that it’s invaded those states twice now to re-incorporate them into the empire? The fact that it colonised them with ethnic Russians to try and overcome the ethnic basis for their independence? The fact that it’s attacked Estonia as recently as 2007? Those seem like pretty strong bases for that assumption to me.

            • Bill 2.1.1.1.2.1
              4 January 2017 at 5:05 pm

              There was no military ‘attack’ by Russia on Estonia in 2007. And as for equating Tzarsist Russia with the USSR with present day Russia when the comment only referred to current day Russia…as per usual you show yourself up to be an intellectually scoured and deflated sad sac that was only ever full of shit back in your good old days.

              • Psycho Milt …
                4 January 2017 at 5:36 pm

                The 2007 attack was a cyber one, not a military one.

                You seem to be claiming that the fact that both Tsarist Russia and Soviet Russia found the Baltic states to be assets worth having has no bearing on how present-day Russia regards those states. Well, the reasons for wanting them in earlier times still apply now, so historical precedent very much has a bearing on the present-day outlook for those states. The people who live there certainly know it, even if you don’t.

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2
          4 January 2017 at 10:12 am

          Sanctuary, Bill has it right. Why would Russia want to add the resource poor, economically backward and European mindset infested elite of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania to the responsibilities and problems that they currently have internally?

          Russia already has the management problems of 11 time zones and dozens of ethnic groups. Why would Russia want to bother with more.

          • Bill 2.1.1.2.1
            4 January 2017 at 10:23 am

            Sanctuary, Bill has it right

            Well. As ever CV…as ever 😉

            Actually. Now that I have your attention…remember that stoush over Duterte sanctioning the ‘knocking off’ of drug dealers in the Philippines?

            I came across this interesting and provocative piece by Andre Vltchek. If you’ve never heard of him, he’s no slouch and well regarded if a little bloody angry.

            I highly recommend it for anyone looking to get a handle on both the internal politics of the Philippines and the country’s position on the US, China and Russia.

            https://off-guardian.org/2016/12/28/president-duterte-of-the-philippines-for-dummies/

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.2.1.1
              4 January 2017 at 11:24 am

              That was some impressive article…read through all of it.

              Social progress is evident in the city of Davao, where Duterte served for 22 years as a mayor. Once a crime-ridden hellhole with collapsed social structure, Davao now is a modern and forward looking city, with relatively good social services and improving infrastructure, as well as new public parks and green areas.

              “So many things got better for the poor people here”, explains the driver, taking me from the Municipality to my hotel. “In just two decades, the city became unrecognizable. We are now proud to be living here.”

              But but but According to WaPo, the NYT, and the Guardian, Duterte is just a MURDEROUS THUG!!! REEEEEEEE!!!

              • Sanctuary …
                4 January 2017 at 11:38 am

                It is fine to personally throw people out of a helicopter, as long as it isn’t you being thrown, eh CV?

                http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/12/rodrigo-duterte-helicopter-161229062349259.html

                • Bill …
                  4 January 2017 at 11:55 am

                  Oh the irony.

                  A long and thoughtful piece from a highly regarded source is linked, that in part, speaks directly to that kind of reporting and you throw up…did you even read the article?

                • Colonial Viper …
                  4 January 2017 at 12:19 pm

                  It is fine to personally throw people out of a helicopter, as long as it isn’t you being thrown, eh CV?

                  He doesn’t give a damn what some cozy soft in the middle, middle class westerners think about his outrageous mutterings. That’s what I am fine with.

                  Meanwhile a CIA wet team has probably already reconned how they would take him and his lieutenants out.

                  Do you hear that sound? The PR drum beat of western regime change has just ratcheted up tempo.

                  • Sanctuary …
                    4 January 2017 at 12:26 pm

                    You must be so unhappy.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      4 January 2017 at 12:38 pm

                      The sooner you figure out that the 21st century is the Eurasian Century, the better I think.

                      The deeply hypocritical transnational corporate Anglo-US empire, will of course remain a *very* powerful player on the international stage.

                      But it can no longer sustain the degree of economic, financial and military power deferential relative to other nations needed to sustain unquestioned hegemonic dominance. (The goal of the New American Century types).

                      It will have to slowly relearn the art of diplomacy and negotiation once again, as opposed to relying on demanding, demeaning, accusatory rhetoric and undemocratic and illegal covert/overt programmes of regime change.

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      4 January 2017 at 4:11 pm

                      The sooner you figure out that the 21st century is the Eurasian Century, the better I think.

                      Meh. We saw off totalitarianism in the 20th Century and we’ll see off its bastard children this century, no matter how much you’d prefer to see nationalist authoritarianism become the new normal.

                    • One Two []
                      4 January 2017 at 8:01 pm

                      We, we’ll?

                      Who or what are you speaking for?

                      And in case I’m right about your obvious issues…

                      Asia is turning (has turned, it’s done) towards Asia, and quickly demoting relations with the war mongering, exploiting colonial nations to the basement, where they will remain indefinately

                      Will your ‘issues’ allow you to deal with that?

                    • Psycho Milt …
                      4 January 2017 at 8:39 pm

                      Who or what are you speaking for?

                      I hold no position of authority to speak for anyone. However, I do have a nationality (x two), an ethnicity and a philosophy, all of which are shared by many others I’m entitled to refer to as “we.” I get that authoritarian nationalism is appealing to the loonier fringes of both the right and the left in western democracies, but it’s not appealing to the great majority of us and we’d rather see liberal democracy succeed than be superseded by totalitarian dictatorships like the People’s Republic of China or mafia states like the Russian Federation.

                      Asia is turning (has turned, it’s done) towards Asia, and quickly demoting relations with the war mongering, exploiting colonial nations to the basement, where they will remain indefinately

                      What does that even mean? There are warmongering, exploiting colonial nations in Asia and have been for as long as anyone’s been in a position to write down what’s happening. And which Asia is turning towards Asia? Japan, Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea are effectively western democracies themselves, and most of the south-east Asian countries have a well-justified lack of trust in China. Wishful thinking doesn’t actually get you anywhere.

                  • Sanctuary …
                    4 January 2017 at 12:35 pm

                    Actually, taking out people like Duerte is what the CIA exists for. I’d rather have a Western aligned dictator who professed some adherence to norms of decent behaviour in Manila than some crazy old dude who boasts about how many people he has murdered and cuddles up to the equally murderous Xi Jinping. Why? Because having a western aligned dictator in Manila (and Suva, for that matter) keeps the murderous Chinese regime contained that much further away from us.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      4 January 2017 at 12:50 pm

                      Colonial, anti-democratic illiberal liberals make me puke.

                      Let’s treat a nation of 100 million Asians like a vassal state colony which exists primarily for our own privileged security and convenience. Fuck their sovereignty and agency.

                      Because, left wing liberal values.

                      Guess what mate, coloured people all over the world have cottoned on to your game.

                      keeps the murderous Chinese regime contained that much further away from us.

                      Tell me, how many poor brown coloured foreigners and Muslims has the Chinese regime murdered over the last 20 years, compared to the deaths caused by the morally precious US-Anglo empire directly and via its proxies?

                      Shall we do a body count? You know, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, the list goes on and on.

                      The fucking reeking moral hypocrisy.

                    • One Two …
                      4 January 2017 at 2:31 pm

                      “I’d rather have a Western aligned dictator who professed some adherence to norms of decent behaviour in Manila

                      Marcos more your preference on behalf of the people in [another]country you don’t live in, and know little to nothing about?

                      It’s not about you or your flacid opinions, Sanctuary

                      They count for nothing, but they do expose you!

                  • millsy …
                    4 January 2017 at 2:03 pm

                    They will probably try and launch a people’s revolution and install neo-liberal hatchet man Fidel Ramos as leader or a provisional ‘unity coalition’ to restore order until fresh elections are called with suitably screened elitist candidates.

              • millsy …
                4 January 2017 at 1:48 pm

                Not mentioned in the media is the fact that Duterte wasnts to emulate the Cuban healthcare system, give out free contraceptives, strengthen LGBT rights, opposes mining, etc.

                And let’s face it, if someone in NZ promised to send the army into South Auckland or Murupara and execute every P dealer and gang kingpin I guarantee you they will win election after election.

              • McFlock …
                4 January 2017 at 9:48 pm

                Got halfway through that article.

                The whitewashing of the sudden increase in deaths of suspects was pretty vile: a combination of “can’t prove nuffin'”, “what about their victims”, and “the ends justify the means”.

                Nowhere was there actually a denial that murder was now government policy.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2.1.2
              4 January 2017 at 12:16 pm

              Seems that the reason that the West is attacking Duterte is because he’s actually bringing prosperity to the people by displacing the rich.

        • mikesh 2.1.1.3
          4 January 2017 at 11:31 am

          I don’t think that “establishing a good relationship” is quite the same as the more perjoritive term “cosying up”. And ” strongmen” also seems somewhat loaded.

      • Bill 2.1.2
        4 January 2017 at 10:00 am

        More (though not) ‘Goldstein’ than Godwin I’d have thought. 😉

  3. HDCAFriendlyTroll 3
    4 January 2017 at 7:05 am

    Donald Trump, greatest American president since Reagan, puts North Korea on notice:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/816057920223846400

  4. greg 4
    4 January 2017 at 7:46 am

    take a look at this chart from the telegraph nz tops the list for most expensive houses
    http://www.telegraph.co

  5. greg 5
    4 January 2017 at 7:48 am

    take a look at this chart from the telegraph nz tops the list for most expensive houses
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/02/fears-massive-global-property-price-crash-amid-dangerous-conditions/

    • Carolyn_nth 5.1
      4 January 2017 at 9:43 am

      And the downside of this over-priced market, is people not being able to afford places to live. Rents for safe, secure, affordable housing are above many people’s financial capabilities.

      Last night TV1 News had an item about a man in his 80s leaving a sub-standard rental in Auckland. Video and print report here.

      I suspect it was Phil Twyford who went to the media on this as he features in the story.

      Frederick Shimmen has left his rental of six months in the city’s west fearing for his own safety.

      “Health wise, safety wise, it’s not acceptable not in this day and age in this country,” says Mr Shimmen.

      Mr Shimmen, a navy veteran, was paying $120 per week for a room which is part of a shed containing cooking, toilet and washing facilities for those also living in two buses and a caravan on the site.

      He decided to leave this week, increasingly worried by the recent arrival of even more tenants.

      “The set up for the lighting of the buses, all just extension cords, holes in the floors, an outdoor toilet. When the wind blows and the rain, it would all come in,” says Mr Shimmen.

      Local MP and Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says Mr Shimmen’s situation is not out of the ordinary.

      “There are thousands of people in this situation find themselves living in the most appalling slum conditions. It just shouldn’t be allowed to happen,” he says.

  6. Penny Bright 6
    4 January 2017 at 7:51 am

    There is another side to the story about the alleged harassment of Suzette Maree Dawson.

    Have you seen this?

    http://www.transparency.net.nz/

    dawson-seeks-asylum

    “WELL is this ever an exercise in self promotion / sensationalism , I was most interested to read the words on her scoop post

    “The targeting of Ms Dawson led to serious threats against and endangerment of her life and those of her children.”

    suddenly I connected the two and indeed in early 2013 I had had dealings with one and the same Ms Dawson when she published defamatory and blatantly incorrect material about me and I simply asked her to remove it from her blog and when I was ignored served a notice on her as required by the act.

    I had phoned her as first point of contact and her daughter had answered the phone, I asked for Suzie Dawson and when she got on the phone she hurled a barrage of abuse at me and a claim that I was stalking her.

    Eventually she did remove the material from her post but it wold appear that she also made a false complaint that I was stalking her.

    Knowing what I know about Suzie Dawson and having interacted with her, I do hope that she gets asylum in Russia and may her stay be a lengthy one.

    I personally would not believe a thing she says as to me ,on the evidence I have, I can conclude that she is prone to gross exaggeration and paranoia.

    She calls herself a journalist but she is not one.

    If she is one of the 88 new Zealanders the government is looking at then the government is wasting tax payers funds, it is my opinion that she does nothing more than regurgitates information which she finds on the web and publishes as her own.

    Please don’t give her money , in doing so you will be supporting a potential fraud. her web sites are https://twitter.com/HelpSuzi3D , https://twitter.com/Suzi3D, contraspin.co.nz,www. endarken.co.nz, http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sp9co7, suziedawson.co.nz, spinbin.co.nz, occupysavvy.wordpress.com , https://vimeo.com/181517859, https://winstonclose.me/2016/06/19/the-oppression-of-the-internet-is-global-by-suzie-dawson/, https://twitter.com/ redstar309z, @endarken

    [deleted, content is in link supplied by Sacha below]

    [learn how to attribute properly and how to make it clear what are your words and what are a quote. Your comment was a nightmare to read on a phone. Count this as a warning – weka]

    • Sacha 6.1
      4 January 2017 at 8:20 am

      Copy and paste of an entire blogpost from here: http://www.transparency.net.nz/2016/11/29/suzie-dawson-a-blast-from-the-past-may-she-fare-well-in-russia/

      I note that the site has no relationship with the recognised organisation Transparency International New Zealand.

      • Penny Bright 6.1.1
        4 January 2017 at 11:06 am

        Exactly right Sacha.

        THIS website actually helps expose corruption.

        Have you been following the recent investigative articles in the NBR about corruption in the NZ roading industry?

        You may find them interesting.

        Also – the 225 page Judgment of Justice Sally Fitzgerald in the recent bribery and corruption conviction of two (former) Auckland Transport officials and one corrupt contractor, is a fascinating read, in my opinion.

        Kind regards

        Penny Bright

        ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

        2017 Mt Albert by-election Independent candidate.

        • Sacha 6.1.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 11:59 am

          The website seems somewhat feverish at first glance. And no, I do not have a subscription to NBR.

          From my reading of the full judgement so far, the successful prosecution hinged on properly maintained public records (falsely-completed Conflict of Interest forms).

          • lprent 6.1.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 12:21 pm

            It is pretty typical over the end of the holiday period and even more so when coming into an election year. It always get a bit crazy and I start doing more moderation to stop the bad behaviors on the site from going exponential..

            (counts on his fingers – 2008, 2011, 2014, and 2017 yep… The site went public in August 2007)

            This is my 9th new year on the site and 4th time coming into an election. I’m getting pretty familiar with the patterns now.

            • Sacha 6.1.1.1.1.1
              4 January 2017 at 1:02 pm

              I was talking about the site Penny pasted a post from. 🙂

              • lprent …
                4 January 2017 at 1:10 pm

                You know what I am like and what the policy states. If it is about this site (or is ambiguous about which site), then the sysop (me) is likely to notice it and sometimes answer.

    • Adrian Thornton 6.2
      4 January 2017 at 9:23 am

      @Penny Bright Why do you insist on dragging this sad story onto today’s open mike?
      Please refrain from having us endure any more of this very tragic non news.
      And if you can’t control your urge to bang on about it, why not at least use the post that was actually about it….
      https://thestandard.org.nz/the-return-of-kim-dotcom-and-the-internet-party-and-the-nz-journalist-seeking-asylum-in-russia/
      Anyone who might be interested in train wrecks can then follow it there.

    • James 6.3
      4 January 2017 at 9:57 am

      if it helps penny – I’m sure just as many people trust and believe Suzie as they do yourself.

      • Penny Bright 6.3.1
        4 January 2017 at 11:10 am

        Hopefully those who can think and research for themselves will not be sucked in by, in my view, the phoney Suzette Maree Dawson?

        In my view – I’d think very carefully before sending Suzette Maree Dawson any money.

        Up to you.

        Kind regards

        Penny Bright

      • Nick 6.3.2
        4 January 2017 at 12:22 pm

        @James ….although more believe Penny than you James.

    • Xanthe 6.4
      4 January 2017 at 8:38 pm

      Funny thing, i had never heard of suzie until yesterdays post, I followed up the links and watched her person of interest video, I found it all interesting but was feeling that perhaps she was maby slightly over egging it,….. then penny and others started in with the organised character assisination and i realised she was not. Penny your posts yesterday and today have convinced me that suzie is genuine and you are a bitter old piece of ….

  7. Sanctuary 7
    4 January 2017 at 8:31 am

    This whole business regarding Suzie Dawson is crazy conspiracy theory stuff peddled by societies fringe merchants and the left does itself no favours by entertaining any sort of debate on their innuendos and paranoid insinuations. We need to be focussing on the main enemy, triumphant neo-fascism, not faffing around with the delusions of the activist far fringe.

    The left’s mission in 2017 is to ensure it rebrands itself well away from the elitist scam that is liberal identity politics and establishes a persuasive narrative that offers a clear alternative to right wing populism. The left devoting its time to the various conspiratorial combinations of the likes of Bradbury, Dawson or Penny Bright is simply to indulge in a distraction from the fringes that it can ill afford to concern itself with and definitely cannot afford to allow itself to be associated with if it wants to be taken seriously.

    If “2TB of explosive data” exists, release it and let it be judged. Otherwise, i don’t see any need for the left to bother itself any further with this ridiculous diversion.

    • Carolyn_nth 7.1
      4 January 2017 at 10:19 am

      “rebranding” is the language and MO of neoliberalism and superficial marketing exercises.

      The left needs to regroup and re-build with a strong focus on both the current context and the past histories of the left and society – and by left, I mean the flax roots left, and not something led from above by political parties.

      For me, this means engaging with and listening to the flax roots groups; aiming for a collaborative approach between groups within the broader left; acknowledging and discussing differences, while embracing things/actions on which we agree.

      • Sanctuary 7.1.1
        4 January 2017 at 11:39 am

        Please, spare me your nit picking rubbish.

        • Red 7.1.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 12:47 pm

          Poor old Carolyn trying to para phrase a hipster anarchist, out with old hierarchy in with horizontal decision making and society, meaningless, do nothing, talkfest clap trap, everyone at cross purposes, reason occupy movement lasted all of one summer

          • Carolyn_nth 7.1.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 1:47 pm

            Ah, not really. I had in mind something in between anarchism, and a totally autocratic left where some group with the most political power on the left dictates what the left stands for.

            The latter has been the case of Labour parties internationally during the neoliberal era.

            The future direction of the left, IMO, needs to come from the people – and there does need to be more collaboration between left groups. But that doesn’t mean each group will be into leaderless structures – some will be, but others will have a more formal structure. Some will be trade unions, some will be green campaigners – with some ideas arising out of actions. So not just a talk-fest, either.

            Some examples: the Glenn Innes state house campaign, Pike River protests, campaigns by unions for a living wage, Green Peace protests against fossil fuel companies’ activities, etc – basically a broad left where people on the ground generate ideas, some of it coming through action.

            • Red 7.1.1.1.1.1
              4 January 2017 at 4:01 pm

              All good to the productive side of society tell them to take a running jump or these is nothing left to redistribute

  8. HDCAFriendlyTroll 8
    4 January 2017 at 9:05 am

    “The left’s mission in 2017 is to ensure it rebrands itself well away from the elitist scam that is liberal identity politics and establishes a persuasive narrative that offers a clear alternative to right wing populism.”

    Short version: FFS stop the craziness and come up with something that works.

  9. Sanctuary 9
    4 January 2017 at 9:39 am

    Someone should tell Chris Trotter to stop posting before the prozac kicks in, his latest bit of depressed nonsense shows an aging man completely out of touch with anyone on the political left who doesn’t still brood about the Douglas era. Seriously, the left ought to tell him it is over having a Greek chorus of crusty old defeatist Cassandras wailing about what awful fate awaits us.

    Chris needs to get out there and meet someone on the active left under 30, it’ll do his dreary old heart the world of good. Why, he might even open the curtains and clean up some cobwebs in his intellectual world view.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/87999450/chris-trotter-2017-in-the-shadow-of-trump

    • James 9.1
      4 January 2017 at 9:53 am

      Mental health issues like depression are serious and impact the lives of many. It shouldn’t be used as an insult or false claim in reply to someone who writes something you disagree with.

      • Sanctuary 9.1.1
        4 January 2017 at 2:47 pm

        PC trolling and attempted derailing fail.

        • James 9.1.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 6:19 pm

          As someone who is had a family member with depression and some other issues – it’s something I’ve always taken seriously- so not a concerned troll on this matter. And hey – if you think it’s ok to joke about it – then that says more about you than anything else.

          • Muttonbird 9.1.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 6:32 pm

            What do you think of the current government’s underfunding and running down of mental health services?

    • Bill 9.2
      4 January 2017 at 10:12 am

      Kind of misses the point that if 2016 delivered us the spectacle of liberalism squirming and screaming, then 2017 might (hopefully from my perspective) deliver us its death rattle.

      Apart from that ‘mere detail’, his musings on NZ positioning regards US and China aren’t so unreasonable. The myopia on display with regards the machinations of various dull NZ political actors is kind of dim. But like I say, he assumes a continuation of this somewhat discredited and untrusted status quo that many of us, it has to be said, are now merely enduring.

    • Carolyn_nth 9.3
      4 January 2017 at 10:14 am

      Most often these annual predictions say more about the predictors than about what will actually happen.

      I do think he is right, though, that the current NZ government will face a conflict between their commercial/financial support for China and intelligence/military allegiance to the US.

    • JanM 9.4
      4 January 2017 at 10:20 am

      Yes – he appears absolutely fixated, doesn’t he – and his attitude to Andrew Little is so negative you’d have to start suspecting it’s personal!

      • Anne 9.4.1
        4 January 2017 at 10:43 am

        I’m picking Andrew Little didn’t fall over in his haste to kiss Trotter’s anointed feet at some point in time…

        • Carolyn_nth 9.4.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 10:48 am

          I think there is a possibility of a Nat-NZF-Mp coalition alliance forming the next government – but that is one of the possibilities. Trotter seems to be one of those uncritically praising Zoe Swarbrick.

          • Penny Bright 9.4.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 11:15 am

            It’s Chloe Swarbrick.

            Who supports privatisation via Public-Private-Partnerships (PPPs).

            Since when has it been ‘left’ to support privatisation via PPPs?

            Is this now Green Party policy?

            Penny Bright

            Who has actively opposed privatisation via PPPs for years.

            2017 Mt Albert by-election Independent candidate.

            [lprent: Didn’t I see an identical comment yesterday? Use your brain Penny. Do that too often and I will ban you for being a parrot trolling. ]

            • Penny Bright 9.4.1.1.1.1
              4 January 2017 at 10:57 pm

              Do folks not ‘get’ just how vulnerable this National Government is on the issue of corruption?

              Do folks not get how potentially HUGE the issue of corruption is going to be over these next two months?

              31 January 2017

              Transparency International 2016 ‘Corruption Perception Index’ is published.

              In my considered opinion, New Zealand will continue to slide down this scale.

              22 February 2017, the corrupt ‘public official’ and corrupt contractor will be sentenced in the Auckland High Court.

              I predict that both these ‘white collar’ criminals will receive ‘blue collar’ sentences, and both will be sentenced to jail for at least 2 years.

              25 February 2017 – the date of the Mt Albert by-election.

              In between – I predict more publicity on corruption, as more ‘whistle-blowers’ come forward, and more politically ‘dynamite’ OIA information is revealed regarding corrupt ‘conflicts of interest’.

              In between – I shall be addressing the Auckland Transport Board, where I hope to encourage them to comply with their statutory duties arising from the Public Records Act 2005, and provide the details of ALL awarded contracts, including all those sub-contracted, and those worth less than $50,000.

              Once AT provide that information – there will be no excuse for Auckland Council, or other Council-Controlled Organisations (CCOs) to equally provide this information.

              There will be other Auckland Council meetings at which these issues will be raised.

              The sooner other political parties ‘pick up the ball’ on this issue – the better.

              Why?

              Because the contracting out (privatisation) of public services formerly provided ‘in house’ has been proven to be TWICE as expensive.

              http://www.pogo.org/our-work/reports/2011/co-gp-20110913.html

              “Bad Business: Billions of Taxpayer Dollars Wasted on Hiring Contractors”

              Not to mention to have helped ‘breed’ corruption, as has been categorically proven in the above-mentioned recent High Court decision.

              Penny Bright

              2017 Mt Albert by-election Independent candidate.

          • Sanctuary 9.4.1.1.2
            4 January 2017 at 12:23 pm

            It isn’t a possibility, it is the most likely outcome. Everyone is going to get a shock at NZ First’s support in the provinces next election. National have used massed immigration to juke the GDP figures, a policy they neither campaigned on or consulted the public on. As in Europe and the USA, the use of a globalised Labour market to repress the pay of the local wage class will become an election issue (albeit framed through a lens of anti-immigration) that will totally blindside the insulated liberal elites of the media establishment, and mark the beginning of the end of neoliberalism in its current form.

            So what will happen here will be the same political outcome as the UK after Brexit. The right wing ruling class that dominate the establishment right wing political vehicle (here, the National party) with use the populist right as an excuse to pivot harder to the right while using populist anti-foreign sentiment as a smoke screen. In the short term, this will shore up the wealth and power grab of the local 1% elites but the long term result will be much more political polarisation and political destabilisation.

          • Sacha 9.4.1.1.3
            4 January 2017 at 9:36 pm

            ” Trotter seems to be one of those uncritically praising Zoe Swarbrick.”

            Trotter lazily continues the assumption that people who voted Chloe for Mayor were young. He’s not “praising” her, just presuming her base and mistaking quite how many are put off by mouthy old men with moustaches and leather jackets.

            • Sanctuary 9.4.1.1.3.1
              4 January 2017 at 9:44 pm

              “… mistaking quite how many are put off by mouthy old men with moustaches and leather jackets….”

              Ah, the quote of the day.

      • Gabby 9.4.2
        4 January 2017 at 12:59 pm

        He might think Andy is an actual uncouth grubby-fingernailed worker-type person.

    • james 9.5
      4 January 2017 at 10:48 am

      Thanks for the link – I particularly liked this part:

      “It is, however, highly doubtful that sufficient young people will participate in the 2017 general election to significantly offset the emotionally powerful appeal of an unabashedly nationalistic, Sinophobic and pro-American coalition of National, NZ First and the Maori Party. Neither conservative fish nor progressive fowl, Labour is likely to see its party vote plummet into the teens – and with it any hope of reclaiming major party status. The baton of progressive politics will pass to the Greens. Real political power, however, will remain with the National Party and its allies.”

      NZ First with National – which I have said several times. and Labour plummeting – although he sees it being worse (for them) than I expect – I do hope he is right.

      This could be the year that the Greens really start looking like the main party of the left.

      I pick Little will not look back on the MOU fondly.

    • Peter 9.6
      4 January 2017 at 8:31 pm

      Totally agree with Chris, I think Labour lost its heart in 1984
      and has never found it’s way back.

      • Penny Bright 9.6.1
        4 January 2017 at 10:08 pm

        Sheesh!

        ‘Blowing the whistle’ against privatisation via Public-Private-Partnerships (PPPs) and corruption, is not an easy task 🙂

        But imagine the HARD questions I’ll be able to ask in the House, if electors in the Mt Albert electorate ‘seize the moment’ and give this Government a message against against corruption, and for transparency in the spending of public monies, that simply can’t be ignored?

        (Upon which none of the other ‘declared’ candidates have (yet) made a stand?)

        Kind regards

        Penny Bright

        2017 Mt Albert by-election Independent candidate.

  10. Morrissey 10
    4 January 2017 at 9:50 am

    The foul spirit of “Sir” Paul Holmes lives on:
    Is the Mad Butcher going to run for ACT this year?

    If you can force yourself to the end of this article, you’ll find the old fool says:

    “The irony is that I was with my own granddaughter, who is herself of Ngapuhi heritage.”

    That’s exactly the same argument that Cameron Slater wheels out whenever he is nailed as a racist: how can I be racist, he whines, when I was born in Fiji and my father is dating a woman from the Philippines?

    Mad Butcher Sir Peter Leitch says Waiheke Island comments weren’t racist but ‘misinterpreted’ after woman’s video goes viral
    New Zealand Herald, Wednesday 4 January 2017

    Sir Peter Leitch says a woman “misinterpreted some light-hearted banter” after she claimed he made racist remarks yesterday.

    Auckland woman Lara Bridger posted a video on social media this afternoon claiming Sir Peter – the Mad Butcher – told her Waiheke Island was a “white man’s island”.

    She last night took down the video, saying “people were going a bit overboard with threats and racist comments” at Sir Peter in response to her post.

    The 23-year-old Maori woman said she was wine tasting with her mother and sister at Stonyridge Vineyard when they spotted Sir Peter eating lunch with his family.

    The group waved to him before heading outside, she said.

    She says Sir Peter came out and approached them and began making conversation.

    Bridger said Sir Peter had warned the group not to drink and drive before going on to say they must not be local.

    “I go ‘Yeah, I’m actually born here’. That’s when he said ‘Well this is a white man’s island and you should acknowledge that’,” she said. ….

    Read more about this sad old racist if you can bear it….
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11776258

    • Wellfedweta 10.1
      4 January 2017 at 10:21 am

      Before rushing to judgement, it would pay to look a little deeper than a single Herald article. There are other accounts that paint a very different picture to the one in the Herald.

      • james 10.1.1
        4 January 2017 at 10:38 am

        but he is a successful, rich, white male – of course hes racist and lives off the blood of others. /sarc.

        Hes the perfect target – apart from the fact he’s about as far from racist as you can get (imo) – Ive bet the guy a dozen or so times.

        • mauī 10.1.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 10:51 am

          So he didn’t make a racist jibe to a family that he knew were Māori?

          • james 10.1.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 10:56 am

            I think that the context impacts on this – and that is being completely overlooked by people who want it to be racist.

            • mauī 10.1.1.1.1.1
              4 January 2017 at 11:08 am

              I’m struggling to think of an appropriate context for his comments..

              • wellfedweta …
                4 January 2017 at 1:15 pm

                My point is – do you know what both parties actually said? I have heard reports she said she was ‘Tangata Whenua’ in response to his question about their drinking and driving. If that is the case, his response is entirely appropriate. In fact she’s playing the race card by claiming exemption from the law for being Maori.

                I have also heard reports that she approached him, not the other way around.

                Also, have you seen the full version of her video? I have, and frankly it paints her as pathetic. No wonder she took it down.

                • mauī …
                  4 January 2017 at 1:38 pm

                  Both parties agree that the “white man’s island” comments were said. They disagree on the “tangata whenua” ones. But I wouldn’t pick you to try and provide an honest depiction of events.

    • JanM 10.2
      4 January 2017 at 10:23 am

      Another patronising old git doing his ‘born to rule’ thing 🙁

    • Sam C 10.3
      4 January 2017 at 10:28 am

      What an absolute load of shit this is.

      If you look at her video (since deleted as she probably woke up with a hangover and was mortified), it is clear for all to see that she is hammered and having a crack for the sake of having a crack.

      Silly little girl. Why the Herald has to chase this sort of nonsense is completely beyond me.

      • Carolyn_nth 10.3.1
        4 January 2017 at 10:41 am

        It got a lot of attention on twitter and facebook last night. I was waiting to hear what Mr Leitch had to say before jumping to conclusions.

        Several MSM outlets covered it, including RNZ.

        It’s a pretty weak defense to say that calling Waiheke (such a Pākehā name?) Island a “white man’s island” was a joke – light hearted banter.

        This morning on Summer Report, Mihingarangi Forbes ‘ report on it included a clip from the original FB video Forbes ended by adding some context: basically, there’s many Māori and Pākehā feeling pushed off the island because of increased gentrification. I can see how that would cause some ill-feeling towards some of the wealthy incomers.

        • Sam C 10.3.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 10:43 am

          Yeah, Mihi Forbes is really objective when it comes to Maori issues. She’s perpetually offended, poor mite.

          • Carolyn_nth 10.3.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 10:45 am

            Actually, it was a pretty balanced report. If you listen, she says both sides give a different description of what happened. She is trying to get an interview with Leitch, and is hopeful of one this afternoon.

          • Morrissey 10.3.1.1.2
            4 January 2017 at 1:29 pm

            If you had the slightest knowledge of this country’s past, you’d be perpetually offended, too.

            Could I suggest you lay off the internet and set aside a few days for reading—serious reading, not the Herald—instead?

            There’s a good fellow.

        • wellfedweta 10.3.1.2
          4 January 2017 at 1:20 pm

          The assertion that he said Waiheke was a ‘white man’s Island’ is disputed. SPL claims he said white man’s law applied to Waiheke after she claimed she was ‘Tangata Whenua’ (the implication being she was above the law).

      • mauī 10.3.2
        4 January 2017 at 10:41 am

        What video were you watching?? Nice victim blaming there.

        • Sam C 10.3.2.1
          4 January 2017 at 10:45 am

          The one she posted on Facebook and has since been removed (I wonder why). Where she says “fuck” 20 times in the first three minutes of her rant. Potty mouth. “Victim blaming”. Whatever.

      • Wensleydale 10.3.3
        4 January 2017 at 11:21 am

        It’s what they do these days. In lieu of real journalism.

        • Colonial Viper 10.3.3.1
          4 January 2017 at 12:03 pm

          BOOOM. Who the frak cares what a possibly out of touch 0.1%’er “Sir Peter” might or might not have said. Just another instance of the Herald distracting from the real issues facing the people of Waiheke. But, certain types have to get wound up over someone’s supposed a-hole comments.

          Carolyn_nth got it by commenting on the underlying context by Forbes:

          basically, there’s many Māori and Pākehā feeling pushed off the island because of increased gentrification. I can see how that would cause some ill-feeling towards some of the wealthy incomers.

          • millsy 10.3.3.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 2:19 pm

            It has gentrified pretty quickly in the past 20 or so years.

            In 1999-2000 I was penpals (yes they were still a thing that recently) with a young lady who lived there. She was pretty much an average kiwi who had an average upbrining like myself, and from what she told me, her mates were all the same.

            Nowadays, I cannot help but thinking all the 19-20 year olds up there are all rich kids.

      • Banjo 10.3.4
        4 January 2017 at 12:04 pm

        I watched the video and didn’t consider her to be “hammered” at all. She was upset yes, not sure why you have jumped to the conclusion she was drunk. She has explained the reason why she removed the video, her explanation is vastly different from your factually devoid assumption. I also didn’t see a “silly little girl” as you have patronisingly labeled her. Maybe it’s just you having a crack for the sake of having a crack.

      • repateet 10.3.5
        4 January 2017 at 12:47 pm

        The Herald chasing that sort of nonsense is completely beyond you? They will be disappointed it wasn’t an All Black and the exchange wasn’t in a toilet for the disabled.

        • Morrissey 10.3.5.1
          4 January 2017 at 1:26 pm

          Aaron Smith’s ridiculous little peccadillo was consensual. In stark contrast to that, no one gave this old fool consent to make racist remarks.

          • Pete 10.3.5.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 3:51 pm

            And everyone has consent, through freedom to comment, on what happened, what was said and make conclusions.

            The only ones who know exactly what was said were those who were there. They also are the only ones who know the order of what was said, by whom, the tones of voices and the postures and other body language. All of those are pertinent to the interaction. All of those are part of the conversation not just the words.

            And the people there, minutes afterwards, undoubtedly would not have been able to give exact accounts of what happened. The basis of points of views in the wider world then becomes supposition, suspicion, and motivation. And ignorance.

            Which ends in a neat and tidy “an old fool making racist remarks.”

            My comment was about the Herald only being interested in the incident for its potential to be sensational. Its potential to be sensationalised is based on there bits of information, different perspectives of the incident, emotion and jumping to conclusions.

            For all the complaints about the Herald they deserve credit for knowing what the market is. (I look at their site. I most definitely refused to play their game by clicking on that story.)

    • millsy 10.4
      4 January 2017 at 1:17 pm

      ..”She says Sir Peter came out and approached them and began making conversation.

      Bridger said Sir Peter had warned the group not to drink and drive before going on to say they must not be local.

      “I go ‘Yeah, I’m actually born here’. That’s when he said ‘Well this is a white man’s island and you should acknowledge that’,” she said. ….”

      If this comment doesn’t have a sinister tone to it, then I do not know what is.

      • Pete 10.4.1
        4 January 2017 at 3:53 pm

        “She says.”

        If that comment doesn’t have a sinister tone to it, then I do not know what is.

    • Muttonbird 10.5
      4 January 2017 at 8:42 pm

      Noted National Party stalwart Michelle Boag reckons Leitch can’t have been racist because Bridger is, “barely coffee coloured”.

      Now that is racist.

      http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/01/04/thank-you-michelle-boag-now-thats-what-i-call-racism-we-will-get-72-hours-out-of-this/

  11. james 11
    4 January 2017 at 11:06 am

    A racist is a racist – here are some comments from brown-buttabean on how he as a person has been treated by Leitch – actions speak louder than someone moaning on factbook:

    “As i said last night on Facebook @sirmadbutcher has done a lot for me and others . I’ve been busy organising wedding and I’ve missed all this mad butcher stuff. All I will say is he’s always been good to me and has supported a lot of south Auckland Polynesian and Maori athletes and league clubs since I was a young in . These are not the actions of a racists person . I might piss some people off but that’s how I feel . I train his grand son and am friends with his daughter and son in law . They have even let us use their house as part of our wedding . I’ll leave you all with a couple of verses to reflect on – Proverbs 10:12English Standard Version (ESV) 12 Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses. Romans 3:23 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Stay safe team and God bless #teambuttabean”

    isnt it terrible how this “racist” does a lot for people – regardless of their colour. supports Polynesian and Maori athletes, and lends his house to someone who is brown for part of their wedding.

    No you are right – someone posted something on facebook – lets hang him. /sarc

    • JanM 11.1
      4 January 2017 at 12:17 pm

      “A racist is a racist” – true, but obviously not recognised as such by some of us. Patronising jokes ( the sexist equivalent is Key’s ponytail incident) designed, perhaps subconsciously, to humiliate in order to feel superior are a part of what I’d call ‘casual racism’. It is common for people to offer charity to those they see as inherently inferior.
      There is also (and probably always was) some sexism creeping into this argument. The victim blaming thing that’s going on is the old ‘she asked for it’ argument that is too often a feature of rape trials and the like.

      • wellfedweta 11.1.1
        4 January 2017 at 1:25 pm

        ‘Victim blaming’ is a label designed to stop any questioning of the alleged victim. This lady has made some serious accusations. Her story has been told in a very visceral and public manner. That was her choice. Now her story, and her credibility with it, needs to be questioned so we can know the truth.

        • mauī 11.1.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 1:41 pm

          You’re not interested in the truth.

          • wellfedweta 11.1.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 1:47 pm

            Read my response to your previous post. You clearly aren’t even looking for the truth here.

        • JanM 11.1.1.2
          4 January 2017 at 1:46 pm

          It’s designed to stop investigation of the incident and destroy the person reporting it. It may be used in a valid way to tease out the truth, but is more often misused as power play. In this case there is no need, as there seems to be ample evidence

          • wellfedweta 11.1.1.2.1
            4 January 2017 at 1:49 pm

            Evidence of what? The evidence seems to me to be of two slightly differing accounts of a brief conversation that one party has decided to publish via social media.

      • Morrissey 11.1.2
        4 January 2017 at 2:01 pm

        This is not the first time Leitch has angered people on this forum….
        https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-26042013/#comment-624745

        • Red 11.1.2.1
          4 January 2017 at 4:09 pm

          Many on this forum seek outrage and offence to simply justify the world as they see it, not what it is The mad butcher in context of his life is clearly not a racist and to justify as such on the testimony of a silly little hyper sensitive and slightly thick snow flake says more about Milsy and company than Peter Leitch

          • Morrissey 11.1.2.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 6:18 pm

            Many on this forum seek outrage and offence to simply justify the world as they see it, not what it is

            ??? What does that MEAN?

            The mad butcher in context of his life is clearly not a racist…

            So why did he do his Paul Holmes impression on Waiheke Island?

          • Wensleydale 11.1.2.1.2
            5 January 2017 at 1:36 pm

            Leitch’s most grievous error is having a shrieking loon like Michelle Boag as his PR person. I mean, of all the possible candidates… Boag? It’s like Pope Francis selecting as his spokesperson the reanimated corpse of Tomas de Torquemada.

    • millsy 11.2
      4 January 2017 at 1:05 pm

      Maori/Polys are OK as long as they stay in South Auckland where they belong, and not venture over to the white mans paradise of Waiheke Island.

      I think that was what Sir Mad Butcher was inferring. Though I have the feeling he should have just said ‘rich man’s island’. Would have saved him a lot of bother.

      • JanM 11.2.1
        4 January 2017 at 4:41 pm

        I think Te Ururoa Flavell has nailed this rather well (from Stuff)
        “Maori Party co-leader Te Ururoa Flavell said he respected Leitch for the work he has done benefiting Maori and Pacific Island communities.

        But he said he also respected Bridger for speaking out on what she believed was offensive.

        “What this incident highlights is that despite there being no intention to cause offence, it has,” he said.

        “The lesson here is no matter how you dress it up, making comments directed at someone else because of their ethnicity is racist and you’ll be called on it.

        “For that, we respect the actions of the young woman and her whanau, who have made their point and who now wish to move on.”

        • Red 11.2.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 5:02 pm

          Bollocks you don’t have the right to slander somebody on a public medium that 100000 people read because you choose to be offended Leitch should sue her for every thing she has if not to just to put the snow flake generation in thier place what you can and can’t say on line Can you imagine if the herald or TV one made such and accusation. This should have been dealt with privately been a private conversation and obviously the two groups miss communicating with no malice at least on the side of one party

          • JanM 11.2.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 5:45 pm

            Sadly, Red, I don’t think you have the faintest idea what you’re talking about

            • Red 11.2.1.1.1.1
              4 January 2017 at 5:53 pm

              Really Jan, can I suggest you engage your little wee brain a bit deeper beyond the immediate topic and ask yourself if some one posted and accusation in a public forum (face book) about you that you felt slandered your good name that 100000 people read , you don’t think you would have a civil case for slander

              • Carolyn_nth …
                4 January 2017 at 6:46 pm

                I don’t think there’s a law about slander in NZ. It’s defamation.

                But one element that needs to be proved is that the statement was untrue. Leitch has agreed he said Waiheke is a “white man’s island”. The two people differ as to the intent of the statement.

                A defense against being charged with defamation is that the person stated something as an “honest opinion”. That does seem to be the case with respect to the woman.

            • Morrissey 11.2.1.1.1.2
              4 January 2017 at 6:19 pm

              Hear, hear.

    • Morrissey 11.3
      4 January 2017 at 1:25 pm

      Brown Buttabean is, as his fatuous nickname suggests, a bit of an idiot.

      • james 11.3.1
        4 January 2017 at 1:46 pm

        Do you disagree with his comments – most of them are easily provable facts.

        Shutting down someone you disagree with by calling him an idiot just shows you as someone with a bias and a chip on their shoulder.

        • ropata 11.3.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 10:47 pm

          The lesson from all this is that it is impossible for someone to do good things AND sometimes do stupid things. You are either a perfect saint or a filthy sinner, there is no middle ground to be a human.
          🙄

          What a stupid piece of clickbait

  13. Morrissey 13
    4 January 2017 at 1:20 pm

    “Uh, Matt, I’m not going to get into colloquy on this one.”
    The U.S. has been mocking democracy long before Trump oozed into power.

    Contrary to what you might think, there ARE some intelligent and ethical reporters in the United States. One of the best is the indomitable Matt Lee of the Associated Press….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flbzqFLrnoU

  14. Morrissey 14
    4 January 2017 at 1:39 pm

    Thinking back to a happier time, when Jenny and the rest of us
    were all on the same page. Four long years ago….

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-26042013/#comment-624726

  15. Sanctuary 15
    4 January 2017 at 2:51 pm

    “…Colonial, anti-democratic illiberal liberals make me puke…”

    Well then CV you picked a pretty stupid country to live in then, didn’t you. Perhaps you ought to consider relocating to somewhere more aligned to your tastes?

    And for someone who professes to prefer the bracing honesty of dictators and thugs to the politics of hypocritical neo-colonial liberal democracies, you sure quickly turn into a quivering blancmange of outraged emotional crisis when the bracing honesty comes the other way.

  16. Sanctuary 16
    4 January 2017 at 3:01 pm

    Norightturn points out Bill English’s Achilles heel – an incompetent Nick Smith who instead of sacking, he goes on holiday with. If I were a Labour MP, I would spend my entire time imaging Nick Smith with a giant bullseye stick to his arse. A juicy, juicy target in election year!

    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/nick-smith-strikes-again.html

    • Morrissey 16.1
      4 January 2017 at 3:29 pm

      Bill English’s double-dipping (i.e., fraud) scandal means he is just as much the Achilles heel of Nick Smith and the National Party….

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2711246/Bill-English-defends-taxpayer-cash-for-house

      • James 16.1.1
        5 January 2017 at 1:07 am

        Where is the fraud ?

        You say it like it’s a fact. But he’s within the rules, and it’s perfectly legal.

        Referring to it as fraud when it so obviously isn’t makes you look like a Tin foil hat wearer.

        • Morrissey 16.1.1.1
          5 January 2017 at 9:51 am

          Where is the fraud ?

          You’re joking, surely?

          You say it like it’s a fact.

          It is a fact, and English apologised for defrauding the taxpayer. Sadly, that little exercise of pride-swallowing was his only punishment.

          But he’s within the rules, and it’s perfectly legal.

          Then why did he pay back the money?

          • Wensleydale 16.1.1.1.1
            5 January 2017 at 1:45 pm

            Generally speaking, politicians and big business love things that are deeply unethical, but technically legal. For them, it’s the latter that really matters. Usually, there’s only an apology and an attempt to makes amends when they realise the catastrophic public relations meltdown that will inevitably result once their indiscretions are publicised.

            They don’t genuinely feel guilt or shame about what they’re doing. It’s all about reelection and returns to shareholders.

          • james 16.1.1.1.2
            5 January 2017 at 7:13 pm

            I’ll tell you what – you post a link where English “apologised for defrauding the taxpayer” – I’ll apologize

            You make the claim he apologizes for “defrauding” – now back it up?

    • DH 16.2
      4 January 2017 at 4:42 pm

      English’s Achilles heel is the same as most of us – his arrogance. He’s become obsessed with this investment approach to social issues and it’s already driven him to fiscal foolishness with more to come.

      IMO when (if ) the general public get to hear what price he really sold the Tauranga State houses for he can start packing his bags. National can spin and swing asset sales to a long suffering public, what they can’t get away with is selling public assets for only a fraction of their worth.

      • Morrissey 16.2.1
        4 January 2017 at 6:26 pm

        Unfortunately, in 2014 National showed it can get away with anything. This will continue to happen as long as we have the “opposition” party led by someone who called Nicky Hager’s revelations “a distraction.”

  17. Jenny 17
    4 January 2017 at 4:47 pm

    In the news; Authorities in the occupied territories are on the search for a suspected Palestinian man who stormed into a Synagogue in Jerusalem and started whipping the worthshippers. Witnesses interviewed later, reported that the man was heard loudly shouting, accusing them of being money changers.

    Before storming off, the man was heard to mutter something about going to start his own religion.

    Other witnesses of the events said that it they could get hold of the man they felt like crucifying him.

    Oops. Sorry I picked up the wrong piece of paper, that was the story of Jesus driving the money changers from the temple. Mathew 21:12-13

    And in other news; Kim Dotcom says that he is planning a release of 2 terabytes of data, two days before the next election, iImplicating departing PM John Key and the Nationa….

    • garibaldi 17.1
      4 January 2017 at 5:09 pm

      Jenny those two items are related. It was later reported that one of those being whipped was a certain John Key.

  18. Muttonbird 18
    4 January 2017 at 6:17 pm

    The Jews are going off the deep end on the North Shore. They want their settlements!

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/321760/foreign-minister's-electorate-office-vandalised

    • Morrissey 18.1
      4 January 2017 at 6:23 pm

      Israel is an outlaw state, condemned by the civilized world. Israel is not “the Jews”.

      • Muttonbird 18.1.1
        4 January 2017 at 6:25 pm

        I’m pretty sure Israelis didn’t write it.

        • mpledger 18.1.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 8:38 pm

          I don’t think any Jewish people would write it, Israeli or non-Israeli, unless they were teenagers on the piss. It smells of people trying to ratchet up tensions/get sympathy for the National party.

          • Muttonbird 18.1.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 8:44 pm

            Aren’t all Jews Israeli citizens?

            • Andre 18.1.1.1.1.1
              5 January 2017 at 6:07 am

              You might be thinking of the Law Of Return, under which Israel grants most Jews worldwide the right to move to Israel and then become citizens after a short period of residency.

          • Morrissey 18.1.1.1.2
            4 January 2017 at 9:51 pm

            Sadly, not all Israelis are people of the moral fibre of Gideon Levy, Amira Hass, Jeff Halpin or Ilan Pappé. Israel is probably the most paranoid and heavily propagandized country in the world. It’s not “teenagers on the piss” who have destroyed the lives of Palestinians for the last 68 years, and are still destroying them. The culprits are middle-aged, sober desk murderers like these….

            http://embassies.gov.il/hanoi-vi/Hanoipicture/1528099007.jpg

          • ropata 18.1.1.1.3
            5 January 2017 at 12:24 am

            It was probably some fundie calling himself/herself “Steadfast” a few days ago… can’t find the exact comment as search is borken 🙁

    • Anne 18.2
      4 January 2017 at 7:19 pm

      Yeah… McCully et al should’ve seen that coming. The northern parts of the Shore is home to a few wacky religions, South Africans and extreme right wingers – and Colin Craig. Having said that, there are still normal people living there too. I know because I’ve met them – including Sth Africans. 😈

      Edit: OMG, I’m not accusing CC of being the culprit. Given his taste for litigation… 😯

      • tinfoilhat 18.2.1
        4 January 2017 at 7:55 pm

        Having met and taught with many immigrant south african and zimbabwean teachers I have found them all to be outstanding additions to the country.

  19. Morrissey 19
    4 January 2017 at 6:27 pm

    The thugs who vandalized that office are supporters of Israel. They quite possibly are extreme Christians, and not Jews.

    • JanM 19.1
      4 January 2017 at 6:58 pm

      Yes, from what I know of them I think that’s quite likely

    • mpledger 19.2
      4 January 2017 at 8:39 pm

      It smells of being a false flag op. There’s just no precedent for it.

    • Muttonbird 19.3
      4 January 2017 at 9:48 pm

      Tell you what though. That resolution censuring Israel was the only half decent thing this government has done.

      And it was done immediately after Key had run off…

      …coincidence?

  20. Muttonbird 20
    4 January 2017 at 6:53 pm

    This should be an election issue for the Labour/Green government in waiting. Our rivers are dying before our eyes at the hands of farmers and it’s something ordinary rural people know because it’s happening within even a child’s memory.

    Someone here suggested the other day that the election should be fought on housing an climate change. I agree with housing but climate change is too inaccessible an issue and is global. Non Green voters won’t be moved by climate change campaigning, but the state of our rivers is an environmental topic, and a disaster, and a really good way to get ordinary people to think about environmental issues.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/01/the-selwyn-river-s-unbelievable-decline.html

    • BM 20.1
      4 January 2017 at 7:07 pm

      I have said the same thing a few times, climate change is too macro, the greens, especially need to focus on more of this sort of stuff, this is where hay can be made.

      • BM 20.1.1
        4 January 2017 at 7:29 pm

        But it’s got to be pitched in a helping positive way, not a punishing way.

        I realise that sort of thinking rubs the left wings fur the wrong way, but it’s the most effective approach to getting people on board and enthusiastic about what you’re saying.

        • Muttonbird 20.1.1.1
          4 January 2017 at 8:27 pm

          And how do you propose that is done?

          This is what is happening right now…

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11774246

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/81191467/Millions-of-litres-of-water-illegally-taken-Is-ECan-doing-enough

          Anyone else breaking the law would have the book thrown at them but not farmers. Massive breaches of already weak environmental protections are occurring and the consequences are light to non-existent.

          I propose the actual enforcement of very heavy fines for breaches of local and national protections on discharge and irrigation along with further encouragement/regulation for farmers to both remove stock from nearby waterways and to plant near waterways. Perhaps local youth could be employed in the planting scheme to be jointly paid for by landowners and the taxpayer. If the farmers can’t comply – tough shit, sell up and get out.

          That’s a stick and carrot approach.

          • BM 20.1.1.1.1
            4 January 2017 at 8:41 pm

            You need to get Fonterra and all the other milk companies on board.

            There’s too much animosity between the left wing and the farming sector, there has to be a go-between to get any sort of scheme to fly.

            • Muttonbird 20.1.1.1.1.1
              4 January 2017 at 8:47 pm

              Get the profit makers to do something about the damage they do in making that profit?

              Now there’s a thought.

            • Sabine 20.1.1.1.1.2
              4 January 2017 at 8:49 pm

              you make it sound as if no one in NZ other then the ‘left wing’ has an issue with water pollution.

              so at a minimum it would be good to define the ‘left wing’.

            • Sacha 20.1.1.1.1.3
              4 January 2017 at 10:02 pm

              You’re glossing over the discomfort of genuine conservatives who tend to vote right and also treasure our environment.

        • Sacha 20.1.1.2
          4 January 2017 at 9:20 pm

          Why should respect for our environment be sugar-coated, when disrespect never is? I do not care whether corporate dairying interests are ‘enthusiastic’. They’ve had their lazy time in the sun under this feckless government. Time to pull their socks up and behave like respectful citizens again.

        • reason 20.1.1.3
          5 January 2017 at 2:50 pm

          We could play a fun game out of Nationals poisoning of our rivers…..

          Called “right direction”, it involves drinking Nationals river-water …. wearing a blindfold ……….. and finding the toilet with the help of team mates who call out instructions.

          It’s an educational game on the danger of cowboys in charge …….

          White disco pants optional ………….. 🙂

      • Sacha 20.1.2
        4 January 2017 at 9:16 pm

        The Green party have consistently campaigned for many years on clean rivers rather than climate change. Many New Zealand voters can remember swimming in and drinking from our streams, rivers and lakes without the slightest hesitation.

  21. Outdoor 21
    4 January 2017 at 9:59 pm

    When are we going to ban some One Nation politicians from entering NZ. For some reason they are offended by probably the best action by a National government.
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/appalled-one-nation-senator-malcolm-roberts-seeks-punitive-stance-against-kiwi-settlements-in-australia-20170104-gtlskt.html

    • Muttonbird 21.1
      4 January 2017 at 10:03 pm

      +1. I would have thought being on the wrong side of One Nation is a good thing. It’s probably the only good thing the current government has done in eight years.

  22. Morrissey 22
    5 January 2017 at 8:05 pm

    Is that waste of space “Sir” Geoffrey Palmer now working for the Myanmar government?

    This is the most farcical “report” since the beyond-farcical Palmer-Uribe “report”….

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38505228

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  • $41m to support clean energy in South East Asia
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  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
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  • Judicial appointments announced
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  • Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in Singapore
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  • Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visit
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  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
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    1 week ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
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  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
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    2 weeks ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
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