Open mike 04/06/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 4th, 2011 - 41 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

41 comments on “Open mike 04/06/2011 ”

  1. ZeeBop 1

    Govt picks winners, it can’t help it, someone always comes off worse.
    The winners don’t know why they’ve won, invent a reason, and the
    blood rushes to their head, what more could they achieve.
    So they argue for smaller government, as it does not pick winenrs,
    government only harms! (because otherwise that would lead to the
    government selection bias being discussed and so the winners withdrawing
    back to mediocrity).
    As their egos grow their ability to see reason, check themselves,
    just falls by the way side. And they come out with such nonsense,
    like the poor have children to get a benefit, like the society has
    a right to choose for them, though has no such right applies for
    the rest of us. The obvious point that welfare is not a tool for
    social engineering, an opportunity to inflict moral and ethics,
    just misses the now complete hollow part nazi, its called income
    redistribution, income support, income is money and money
    is secular.

    Its called national socialism also for a reason, it invokes nationalism
    and socialism but not to the benefit of either greater equality or
    national betterment, but for the crude engrandizement of the few
    who government selected as winners and who we never debate
    about their inaquancy might be at fault in their thinking, or their
    abusive superior tone.

    Welcome to NZ still to learn the lessons of Nazism enough to avoid
    repeating them. It would have been wrong to send people to
    concentration camps even if they were put to death there, it
    is wrong to rig legislation to funnel people off on to a OE.
    Just so many do does not make it the unforeseen consequence
    of legislative power justified. People should have choose to
    stay or go. People in welfare need the choose of money,
    I don’t see how giving them money with the loss of choice
    is welfare, its punitive. We do not provide much benefits
    anyway, so it seems ethical to reduce not increase compliance
    in hard times.

    But alas we are ruled by the mediocre minions of government
    picked winners.

  2. Deadly_NZ 2

    The Nation has produced a couple of laughs this morning, just waiting for Crusher Collins to come on and answer Blinglish’s statement that prisons are too expensive. “A fiscal and moral failure”

  3. ianmac 3

    I hear that Russell Norman is calling for the Government accounts should be removed from Australian owned Westpac and given to Kiwibank. Now that’s a great idea.
    But I don’t think that Kiwibank has any flash “boxes” to offer the current Ministers. Damn. It was a good idea.

    • Lanthanide 3.1

      It makes perfect sense. The transition would be extremely expensive however, and Kiwibank really isn’t set up to deal with a customer of that size. However they could easily legislate that they will go with Westpac for the next 2 years and then swap to Kiwibank, so that Kiwibank is ready in time.

      It’s the sort of policy you can run on as part of your campaign, because it makes it very difficult for the opposition to come up with reasonable opposition for it without sounding anti-NZ and un-patriotic. It also helps ensure the long-term survival of kiwibank, both as a trading bank and as a government entity, because selling it off can be spun as giving the government’s services to a foreign company.

      • Deadly_NZ 3.1.1

        Except for 1minor problem. If this lot get in then kiwibank will defiantly be sold and with 6 billion to spend it could well be the Klili bank. Then of course the fix would be in dump westpac and off to klili bank to send even more of our money overseas.

    • millsy 3.2

      As much as I am a fan of Kiwibank, I think the Gov. should reinstate the Reserve Bank/Treasury as its banker. I am very uncomfortable with the idea of a private sector banker (even if its an SOE) holding the government’s bank account.

      Norman, by sticking to the regular 3rd way playbook, shows he still has a long way to go if he has a hope of getting my vote.

      I am bemused by Labour’s strident defence of Kiwibank, as they fought tooth and nail against it when in government.

      • Lanthanide 3.2.1

        “I am bemused by Labour’s strident defence of Kiwibank, as they fought tooth and nail against it when in government.”

        Um, if Labour didn’t want to set up kiwibank, it wouldn’t have been done. I think really they didn’t want to back a new banking institution like that, because if it had failed, it would have made them look quite silly to the public.

        • McFlock 3.2.1.1

          um – it was a classic example of tail wagging the dog. The Alliance wanted it, labour didn’t, but labour needed the Alliance.
          Labour were quite negative about it initially.

          • Lanthanide 3.2.1.1.1

            I know it was tail wagging the dog, but were Labour negative about it because they thought it was fundamentally a bad idea, or were they negative about it because they thought it would fail and reflect badly on them?

            • McFlock 3.2.1.1.1.1

              I’m not commenting as to Lab’s motivations, and I don’t particularly give a damn. My point was that labour DIDN’T want to have kiwibank, but did it anyway to keep their coalition partner happy. And it turned out to be a very good idea. But Labour can’t claim credit for it, even by arguing that they might have publicly said no, but secretly wanted yes.

    • jackal 3.3

      Excellent! Greens push Kiwibank for Govt contract

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5100925/Greens-push-Kiwibank-for-Govt-contract

      The Green party wants to ”fix” our banking system so we are no longer “mortgage slaves to Aussie banks”. Co-leader Russel Norman says the Government’s banking contract should be taken over by state-owned Kiwibank.

  4. ianmac 4

    John Armstrong has really laid it out. Treasury gets a black mark but it is the summary of the rest of National’s intent that is really all about the worries that Labour and other commentators here have been warning about. Wow!
    “National’s reforms have not, so far, seriously altered or undermined fundamental roles of the state. …….. However, add all this together – asset sales, a stripping back of the core public service, and extensive contracting out of management and service delivery to the private sector. Then add the opening up of accident compensation to competition…………….Then add welfare reform to cut back the number of beneficiaries and you start to get the real picture of National’s slimming of the state’s apparatus and ipso facto its role. ……..This has had little if any effect on National’s sky-high poll ratings. That may be because voters have yet to realise National’s agenda is much greater than the sum of its parts. ”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10730077

  5. Seen this?

    (I’ve done a bit of ‘slicing and dicing’ – but some of this information is VERY compelling!)

    Would be interesting to see the NZ equivalent of this information!
    Any one know of any similar recent research carried out with NZ statistics?
    ————————————————————————————————————-

    http://www.tribunemagazine.co.uk/2011/06/12582/
    Madhouse economics with lunatics in charge

    Where has all the wealth of this country actually gone?
    by Prem Sikka
    Friday, June 3rd, 2011

    Britain’s economic landscape is blighted by economic misery and social exclusion. Nearly 2.5 million people are officially unemployed and 1.5 million are working part-time but would like a full-time job. Youth unemployment is heading towards the one million mark and graduate unemployment is around 20 per cent. Approximately 13.2 million people, including 2.8 million children and 1.8 million pensioners, are living in poverty. Britain’s state pension, as a percentage of average earnings, is the lowest in western Europe. Some 15 per cent of high street shops are empty and the Government’s austerity measures are set to deepen the misery. This is the stark reality of the world’s sixth largest economy and the third largest in Europe. So where does all the wealth go? The answer to this question is crucial because it has a bearing on the possibilities of building a sustainable economy and society.

    This country’s gross domestic product has grown from the 1976 figure of £621.22 billion to a current estimate of £1,318.31 billion, but has not been accompanied by equitable share for working people. In 1976, salaries and wages paid to workers accounted for 65.1 per cent of GDP. Following mass privatisations, the demise of skilled jobs in the manufacturing sector and the weakening of trade unions, this declined to 52.6 per cent of GDP in 1996. Following the introduction of the national minimum wage and expansion of the public sector, workers’ share rose. It is now in decline again and stands at 54.8 per cent of GDP. The indications are that, at some companies, the workers’ share of value added is running at less than 50 per cent. Many are facing wage freezes and loss of pension rights. The Government is reviewing employment laws which will inevitably further shrink workers’ share. Of the 200,000 new jobs created in the last year, only 3 per cent are full-time and many do not give employees statutory rights to pension, sick pay or holidays.

    …………………

    These trends have resulted in 50 per cent of the population owning less than 1 per cent of the national wealth. The Sunday Times 2011 Rich List shows that the 1,000 richest people in the country have amassed wealth of £395.8 billion, an increase of £60.2 billion since 2010. With wealth of £4.2 billion, Sir Philip Green is listed as the 13th richest person. Many of his employees still receive the minimum wage.

    The state has not collected a higher share of the GDP in taxes to enable it to redistribute wealth. In 1976-77, taxation took 43 per cent of GDP. By 1995-96, the tax take declined to 37.2 per cent of the GDP, rising to 38.6 per cent in 2007-08 and back to 37.2 per cent in 2010-11. This decline is one of the reasons behind the brutal public expenditure cuts and loss of welfare rights. The state, or the public share, of taxes has declined even though more people are in work, there are more billionaires than ever before and the corporate sector enjoyed, before the recession, record rates of profitability.

    Corporations have been the biggest beneficiaries of government policies, as successive governments have shifted taxes away from capital to labour, consumption and savings. Hikes in VAT and National Insurance contributions are a reminder of this major shift in policy. Income tax personal allowances have not kept pace with inflation and more individuals have become liable to higher rates of income tax at middle earnings. For example, the freezing of personal allowances in the 2011 Budget may result in another 750,000 people paying the 40 per cent higher rate of income tax.

    …………….

    The supporters of corporations will point to the fact that, in 1979, corporation tax receipts of £4.6 billion accounted for 5.4 per cent of total tax revenues. Last year, they rose to £38.5 billion and accounted for 7 per cent of the total tax revenues. However, this does not tell us the amounts that they should be paying, as corporations and wealthy elites have become very adept at shifting incomes and profits by using opaque structures and schemes to avoid taxes. For example, Boots, the high street chemist, now has its headquarters in Switzerland to enable it to avoid British taxes. Google dominates the internet and its revenues from this county have soared to £6.35 billion over six years, but the company is estimated to have paid only £8 million in corporate tax.

    The United Kingdom is the home of a destructive global tax avoidance industry, headed by major accountancy firms: KPMG, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Deloitte & Touche and Ernst & Young. Various economic models suggest that, due to organised tax avoidance, we may be losing around £100 billion tax revenues each year. Inevitably, this has reduced the tax take, increased the national debt and threatened hard-won welfare rights.

    ………………
    The reduction in workers’ share and the state’s share of GDP means that more is available to corporations and their shareholders in dividends. This does not mean that their resources necessarily stimulate the UK economy. According to a government study, individuals in Britain own around 10 per cent of the shares listed on the London Stock Exchange. Investors from outside this country own 42 per cent of the shares listed on the London Stock Exchange and a variety of insurance companies, pension funds, unit trusts and investment trusts. Banks own the other 48 per cent. This means that a vast amount of dividends flow out of Britain and are not subject to UK tax.

    ……………………..

    The current distribution of income and wealth will not facilitate a sustainable economic recovery. Ordinary people spend money on everyday things such as food, transport and clothing and thus generate a greater multiplier effect compared to the concentration of wealth in relatively fewer hands. Yet the UK trend has been in the wrong direction. There is no evidence to support the contention that feeding fat cats somehow percolates wealth downwards. The obsession with reducing corporate taxes has not been matched by any boom in private sector investment and jobs.

    Too many people already make ends meet by borrowing and that was one of the factors behind the banking crisis. Yet the Government has learned nothing from that. Rather than redistributing wealth or pursuing progressive taxation policies, it expects ordinary people to take on even more borrowing to stimulate demand. Personal household debt is already £1.62 trillion, bigger than Britain’s GDP and the largest per capita in Europe. The Government expects it to reach £2.13 trillion by 2015. These are the economics of a madhouse. There is so sign of any sustained attack on organised tax avoidance or broadening of the tax base by considering financial transactions tax, mansion tax, wealth tax, monopolies or land value tax.

    Prem Sikka is professor of accounting at the University of Essex
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright
    http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

    • ropata 5.1

      In percentage terms I think NZ society has similar levels of disadvantage, helped along by govt welfare for big corporations and cuts to everyone else

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2

      A good summary of the massive misallocation of resources that is capitalism – especially in the “free-market”.

    • Here’s the link to the new book ‘Bankrupt Britain‘ which maps the social and economic decline of Britain over the last few years. The ‘Additional Materials’ link on the page provides the excel raw data and other resources.

  6. Campbell Larsen 6

    Last night I had the misfortune to be visited by some old aquaintences in the dead of night, sans invitation.

    Not only did they not seek an invitation they also hid when I went to investigate, though they were most assuredly there – bizarre behaviour, creeping and peering and more the sort of thing that one would expect from a stalker, not an acquaintance.

    But alas this was not to be the end of my woes.
    During the course of the an arguement that eventuated between two of the intruders, my character was called into question. Essentially girlfriend did not like stalking and hiding and was considering breaking up with him as a result. Boyfriend decided (perhaps it was not even conscious) that he would perhaps be able to justify it by claiming that Campbell is this, Campbell is that, so its OK to creep and peep around.
    Needless to say this strategy, deflection, was not well received and a bitter contest of name calling commenced. Girlfriend slagging Boyfriend. Boyfriend slagging me.

    Their selfish tizzy in my backyard reached the ears of my neighbour who pounced upon the slander as gospel. I heard her words drifting over from next door this morning – a self rightous tirade of hate – this despite the fact that neighbour had been years of pleasantries in the making.
    My mild response -considering I was being slandered – was a just audiable ‘I can hear you over here too’ this was the apple that upset the apple cart though.

    Next thing I know the Drug Squad is outside, dogs pining in plaintive howls.
    Her family and mine have known (or at least seen regularly) each other all of my life.
    I have fetched the paper for her mother numerous times.

    But when it comes down to it, she believes whatever she hears that allows her to condemn – justice as she sees it – justice her way.
    Injustice for me today is not being able to respond to my accuser, my judge, my neighbour.
    Injustice for me today is for one voice to be heard louder than another, or not be heard at all.

    She did not even bother to walk the fifteen steps across the drive to talk to me about it all.
    Injustice for me today is men and dogs outside my door.

    No right of reply. Soon to be searched on the most flimsy of pretexts, a snippet of passing drunken arguement. A trespassers testimony.

    Is this the stronger community that the police are hoping to create?
    This bit of my little community will not recover, ever.

    • Pascal's bookie 6.1

      That sucks Campbell.

      • ropata 6.1.1

        Sorry to hear the tale, sadly there are many small minded fools out there, who live in a world of hate and fear, I find it better to mostly just leave them be.

    • jackal 6.2

      Forget the community, make sure you recover. The people who undertake such behaviour are not worth having in your life.

    • Treetop 6.3

      Best to ignore people who over react as they can be unpredictable. Some people are hard to please and pleasing them is not worth the effort. You sound like a good neighbour and what happened was not within your direct control; if only the neighbour looked at the incident this way.

    • Vicky32 6.4

      Ear-wigging neighbours are a curse! I am reminded of the fact that on the news, and also on the ‘Darklands’ programme, neighbours love to come along and give their impression of the ‘criminal’ de jour! They don’t seem to realise (and possibly the audience doesn’t either) that all they’re contributing is unsubstantiated gossip! (Which brings me to ask – does anyone know of Latta ever covering a case involving a wealthy or middle-or-upper class “criminal”? I don’t know of one.)

      • millsy 6.4.1

        He did Mark Lundy. I think he would come under the definition of ‘middle-class’, and I think he will probably do Clayton Weatherston in due course.

    • Campbell Larsen 6.5

      The above is an illustration of what can occur when we encourage suspicion in our society. Law and order is a election football and the Nats are determined to keep this ball in play.
      I’m still fetching the paper for the neighbor.

  7. millsy 7

    “it expects ordinary people to take on even more borrowing to stimulate demand. ”

    That passage jumped out at me,

    In essence, it means the privatisation of deficit spending.

    When JK implements his welfare reforms, you are going to see a lot of people line up at loan sharks offices, because that will be the only place where people are going to get money to pay their rents, buy food, etc. Cash Converters has jumped into this market as it was being slowly strangled by Trademe,

  8. Campbell Larsen 8

    Politicians are beyond reprieve

    One word missing
    An obvious not
    Framing delivered in a high volume slot.

    This is not a democracy, this pregnant space says to me.

    A sound bite world,
    no pause to take a breath.

    An editor exec-utor pouncing on every misstep

    This is not a democracy. This space is you, this space is me.

    Politicans are not, not beyond reprieve.

    A duplicitous dictionary, bending the lens.

    A misshapen world – Jokey Hens

    Information dancing, masquerading, misleading.

    This is not a democracy,
    There are people in periphery.

    A media monster stretching its wings.

    Light filtering through blue blood and dark veins,
    dripping menace.

    Politicians are not, not beyond reprieve.

    Truth is not a ministry, minority or a majority:

    Naked and raw,
    Irrefutable and absolute,
    Mutable, subjective and sweet

    A destination conversation
    With no stops along the way

    “Hearts Trump Clubs” but this is not a game.

    It’s a reminder.

    THIS community has a voice.
    THIS world has a song.
    THIS is NOT an empty space.

  9. Adrian 9

    Penny, the figure of 48% of Britain owned by the banks is alarming but some weeks ago a report I read (probably here on The standard) had banks being well over 80% of the NZ economy. Also the figure of the richest 1000 being worth only 380 billion in the UK looks suss, I would have thought that it would be a lot higher , the richest 100 I would believe. Shell and BP alone are British owned and I think Shell is privately owned. Interestingly the Chch email and the supposed share holding in Fletchers appear to be almost exclusively bank owned, or are they shares nominally held as cover for loans. Can someone who knows how this works elucidate me?.

  10. jackal 10

    National’s Fracking Response

    http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2011/06/nationals-fracking-response.html

    There’s no question that fracking is a destructive method of extracting natural gas from within the Earth. It’s been proven to be highly dangerous and environmentally damaging in many reports and accounts over the last few years, something the Acting Minister of Energy and Resources Hekia Parata is shamefully unaware of. The destructive process simply has no place in a country claiming to be 100% Pure…

  11. millsy 11

    Paula Bennett is apparently on Q and A tomorrow.

    The opening salvo is about to be fired in the war on the most vulnerable.

  12. Morrissey 12

    MURRAY DEAKER WATCH No. 1

    Notorious race-baiting broadcaster Murray Deaker is in the news for yet again using racist language on air. But longtime Deaker-watchers know that he has been making brutal, demeaning comments about Māori and Polynesian athletes for more than twenty years.

    This series is designed to bring Deaker’s bigotry to the notice of those people who are not bored enough, or sad enough, or dull enough to listen to one of his programmes. Here then, like a sulphurous blast from six years past, is the first in the series…

    Deaker still concerned about “dumb” Polynesian players
    by MORRISSEY BREEN, Daisycutter Sports Inc.
    Monday August 29, 2005

    Great test match on Saturday, in spite of it being played at night time in Dunedin. A thrilling late try by Keven Mealamu means we beat the Springboks and are in line for the Tri-Nations title.

    New Zealand fans and New Zealand media commentators would be elated at that, surely? Well, yes, they are… mostly.

    You’ve been thinking the All Blacks have played brilliantly this season? Think again, buddy. Deeper, cleverer minds than you or I have been cogitating, and they are gravely concerned.

    Minds like Murray Deaker, for instance. As ever, the man grandiosely billed on his radio station’s promos as “New Zealand’s number one sports broadcaster” is again giving voice to his perennial theme, viz., the All Blacks, being full of Polynesian and Maori players, are just too…. well, …. too dumb.

    Tonight, in tones of deep seriousness, he informs his listeners that “our players are faster, stronger, better athletes — but they’re not BRIGHTER.”

    A caller named Mark is in full agreement with the great man: “They’re BRAINLESS, Murray! Why are they so THICK?”

    Deaker develops his theme: “Umaga — a GREAT player. But I question his judgement. If only he had somebody like Grant Fox inside him — a player with BRAINS. These guys play with fantastic athleticism but they don’t play with NOUS.”

    Got it, New Zealand football fans? No matter how good they look, those darkies are just too st00000-pid to play rugby football at the top level. They are constantly being out-thought by smarter white players, as we saw demonstrated in Paris last November, and during the Lions series earlier this year.

    When are the All Black selectors going to LISTEN to real, passionate, BRIGHT fans like Murray Deaker and “Mark”, and get rid of those darkies? Can’t they see how they are DESTROYING the All Blacks? Deaker and “Mark” can, for Chrissakes!!! What’s WRONG with Henry, Hansen and Smith? Are they blind?

    • rosy 12.1

      For sure those farmer boys of yesteryear are hard to beat…
      Just for a start – Benson Stanely – engineering degree
      Olo Brown – accountant
      Michael Jones – B.A., M.A. and B.Plan

      • Morrissey 12.1.1

        Good point. But having a university degree does not necessarily mean someone is smart—vide Murray Deaker.

        • rosy 12.1.1.1

          Yeah, I know – I loathe to equate intelligence with degrees. It’s just that the good ol’ boys are so entrenched in their views it’s really, really hard to deal with except to show they can succeed in white man terms. Oh and doesn’t Inga Tuigamala run a successful business?

          I’ve heard the same complaints about the All Blacks being dumb from the English and Australians too. Not because of the brown quota, but because too many people from state schools are players.

          Had a family member mention that the Hurricanes were playing badly – too many Polynesians, he said. I pointed out Auckland is pretty much the same and seem to be doing ok… (today excepted – go The Chiefs – Mils, Sivi, Messam, et al… ;-)) I don’t know that I’d question Mils’ smarts – especially not at the same level I’d question Donald’s.

          • Morrissey 12.1.1.1.1

            I’ve heard the same complaints about the All Blacks being dumb from the English and Australians too.
            I’ve not heard many—in fact, any—English or Australian players ever say that. I think a few journalists have, however: Paul Ackford is notorious and so is Stephen Jones. Nobody takes those men seriously, however.

            Watching film of any number of their matches shows quite clearly that the All Blacks generally have smarter players and coaches than either of those teams. In fact, no team has played dumber rugby in this country than the 2005 British and Irish Lions.

            • rosy 12.1.1.1.1.1

              “I’ve not heard many—in fact, any—English or Australian players ever say that”
              No not the players, just the supporters. I’ve heard a few too many talking along those lines.

            • Vicky32 12.1.1.1.1.2

              I don’t even know who any of these people are (I’ve successfully avoided thugby my whole life, which is quite an achievement for someone brought up in NZ, I assure you! 🙂 )
              But please, pretty please, don’t use “smart/dumb” to mean “clever/stupid”. There are good linguistic and social reasons to refuse these Americanisms! To use the word ‘dumb’ to mean stupid, is an insult to people with disabilities, and may I say, an indication of ‘dumbness’?
              http://englishusagewoman.blogspot.com/2011/04/dumb.html

              • Morrissey

                Upbraiding achieved.

                Will watch language in future.

                • Vicky32

                  That’s great, Morrissey! 🙂 Thanks so much… I used to work with people with disabilities and my tutor at Auckland College of Education had a rebuke she’d always use “That’s bad SRV” (social role valorisation). The phrase entered the family lexicon…

  13. jackal 13

    15 Ways National is Failing Kiwis

    http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2011/06/15-ways-national-is-failing-kiwis.html

    There’s been a fair amount of rhetoric and spin regarding National’s negative policies lately with their PR consultants working overtime to try and protect brand Key’s declining credibility. Presently National is purposefully avoiding the issues in a process of obfuscation that is ultimately bad for democracy. They’ve largely managed to avoid any direct criticism or had to answer the really hard questions. So while mainstream media gives National a hospital pass, the Jackal outlines some of the facts concerning recent disinformation.