Open mike 04/09/2013

110 comments on “Open mike 04/09/2013 ”

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1. Retired Engineer 1

   4 September 2013 at 7:15 am

   Can someone please explain to me why Robertson is thought to have any chance against Cunliffe.

   When I think of the mess of the last few years I think of Robertson. He and his type of smart Alex’s robbed the Labour Party just like Douglas did. He has no care for what the members like. He has done nothing for the workers of this country.
   • Paul 1.1

     4 September 2013 at 7:31 am

     Not everyone whose opinion you hear has the interests of the progressive left at heart.
     The right wing media puppets have a mortgage to pay and corporate owners to placate.
     Within the Labour caucus there are people who place their own career and position above the needs of society. Also Remember the Labour Party of the 1980s was taken over by a secret coup from the top. These people, who still exist in the Labour caucus, have never said sorry for Rogernomics. Who they answer to remains a mystery.
   • Hami Shearlie 1.2

     4 September 2013 at 9:39 am

     Agreed! Add to that, the fact that he said his partner Alf had other things to do and “isn’t here” to the reporter Heather Du Plessis-Allen when they were at his favourite pub, filming for “Seven Sharp”, when all the time, “Alf” was indeed there, very close by, looking on!!! Not honest and not a good look!!
     • mac1 1.2.1

       4 September 2013 at 10:25 am

       And I wonder why a man says that to a reporter with a camera in attendance that his partner is not present. I wonder whether matters of privacy might just be part of the reasons. It’s the reason why we have ‘white lies’- to avoid a situation which if treated ‘honestly’ leads to more harm than the harm received by the reporter in this case in being told a white lie when the reporter probably ought not to have asked the question in the first place.

       Certainly much easier to deny his partner’s presence than to have to say to the reporter something along the lines of, “Why the fuck are you interested in whether my partner is here? Don’t you know that family is off limits? Don’t you go shoving that camera in my partner’s face just to satisfy your and your public’s prurient interest.”

       Because anybody who’s been in public life knows how film is misused. Just think about what has happened with Cunliffe’s art work as a recent example.
       • Hami Shearlie 1.2.1.1

         4 September 2013 at 3:10 pm

         Better for Alf to really not be there, to avoid anyone misconstruing anything, I would venture to suggest!! It just made him look like he was ashamed of Alf, and as you say, the look of things is everything when it comes to television and incidents like this can be twisted to suit all kinds of agendas. Sad, but true!
       • QoT 1.2.1.2

         4 September 2013 at 8:14 pm

         Certainly much more foolish to deny his partner’s presence than to have to say to the reporter “Yes he’s here but he’s keeping a low profile, he’s a very private person.”

         Fixed it for you.
         • mac1 1.2.1.2.1

           4 September 2013 at 8:55 pm

           Thanks QoT, that would be simpler, so long as the reporter could be trusted to stop there. I wouldn’t trust every reporter. Your far simpler answer for me in that situation would depend on my relationship of trust with that reporter, and I’ve been in the middle of some malicious journalism.
           • QoT 1.2.1.2.1.1

             4 September 2013 at 9:56 pm

             You know how you build “relationships of trust” with reporters? Don’t lie to them about fairly unimportant things.
             • mac1 …

               4 September 2013 at 11:27 pm

               And protecting your partner from intrusive reporters and TV cameras is not important?

               QoT, neither you nor I know why Robertson did not tell the truth. I just don’t have the same need to attack him for it as some folk obviously do.

               I actually don’t care about this. I can see that there is more than one reasonable explanation as to why this man did this action, and I am not going to judge him for it.

               What I believe I do detect, though, is a whole lot of judging going on, based on whether this candidate or that candidate is their preferred.

               At this stage, I prefer Cunliffe but it’s not based on this discussion, and I don’t feel the need to attack Robertson because I prefer another candidate.

               I’m in the Labour Party. I expect that all these contenders are going to remain in caucus, along with Shearer too and we’ll move on together from here- to defeat this tory government and reintroduce some politics of decency for ordinary folks back into NZ politics.

               The two journos who misused film and photos in their control and involving me, I didn’t even know, by the way. No chance to build up trust there. They did what they did, for their own motivation, probably political, certainly deliberate. Just a misuse of their power, and a breach of the trust that we place in the media to be honest and without bias in the business of the fourth estate.
               • Colonial Viper …

                 5 September 2013 at 12:41 am

                 And protecting your partner from intrusive reporters and TV cameras is not important?

                 Public place. Pre-organised media event. Lots of cameras and journalists about.

                 Like I remarked to Key and Banks at the time: you turned up to this and expected privacy???
                 • mac1 …

                   5 September 2013 at 6:06 pm

                   CV-different scenario. Banks and Key are only temporarily married, with Don Brash giving them both away. The media were invited to the nuptials, but not into the church to hear the exchange of vows.

                   The important words for me are- “protecting your partner.” The pre-organised media event was for Grant Robertson. Whether his mother, father, great uncle, nieces, aunts, bothers and sisters or his partner were there is private, unless they were invited into the spotlight.

                   I still ask the question- what were the chances of the intention of the reporter being anything less than prurient?
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     5 September 2013 at 6:31 pm

                     As I said, if you turn up with family in tow to a big media event in a public space…how are you expecting privacy for your family? If you want to protect your family from the media…why have you asked them along?
   • Chooky 1.3

     4 September 2013 at 12:29 pm

     Retired Engineer +1
2. Dr Terry 2

   4 September 2013 at 7:30 am

   News this morning that Israel says it has carried out a “joint” US missile launch (new Sparrow ballistic type) in the Mediterranean for “target practice”. Russia reports 2 missiles. News of ruffled financial markets. Refer RT-News, Guardian, et al.
   • Colonial Viper 2.1

     4 September 2013 at 8:06 am

     First official reports of CIA armed and trained rebel units now heading into Syria from Jordan. Likely been going on for sometime, but now quietly acknowledged.
3. Paul 3

   4 September 2013 at 7:40 am

   “Hollywood actor Sam Neill has teamed up with a host of stars to lambast the Government over plans to shut out the public from decisions on deep-sea oil drilling.
   Neill uses the “call to action” video montage to criticise National for threatening the oceans and spoiling New Zealand’s international reputation. He says the country is “going backwards fast.”

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9121336/Deep-sea-oil-plans-anger-stars

   And Fairfax media’s poll beside asks…
   Which is more important?
   Jobs
   Environment

   Typical!
   There is no option of both. Jobs and the Environment.
   The media is so awful. Guess when you are owned by billionaires like Reinhart, you have to support the corporate evil.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     4 September 2013 at 11:22 am

     And the majority of respondents say that the environment is more important.
4. karol 4

   4 September 2013 at 7:41 am

   Very good review of Max Rashbrooke`s edited collection, `Inequality: a New Zealand crisis` by Wayne Hope on The Daily Blog yesterday. The first part summarises some of the key points made in the book about inequality in NZ. Then Hope adds to points that he considers aren’t adequately covered in the book:

   From the government`s perspective everything was going fine until a major book on inequality was launched and publicised. Then,last week Bryan Bruce`s `Mind the Gap` documentary on TV3 repoliticised the issue at the worst possible time.
   […]
   For the Key government and its backers this is all bad news. For readers of the Daily Blog, however, it is now time for a `national conversation` as they say.
   […]
   Firstly, the destruction of New Zealand`s economic sovereignty is given insufficient attention. As Bruce Jesson observed, `Rogernomics` facilitated major changes in the structure of New Zealand capitalism. Directorial elites, institutional investors and shareholders were caught up in an unprecedented wave of mergers and acquistions
   […]
   Secondly, the book did not fully investigate the business and social worlds of New Zealand`s wealthiest people. The same can be said of Bryan Bruce`s documentary, the plight of homeless and stressed out families should be set against the luxurious lifestyles associated with wealth concentration. Do the rich inhabit a global or national world? Where do they make most of their money? To what extent are they repatriating profits offshore? Answers to these questions will provide a more complete picture of inequality in New Zealand.

   The prospect of an ongoing national conversation about inequality will be terrifying the Key government. For the truth is this. They are less interested in economic development and national prosperity than in wealth defence.

   And the stats Hope presents does not look good for the Clark government period either:

   Between 1989 and 2008 foreign controlled sharemarket value increased from 19 to 41 per cent. From 1989 to 2006 direct foreign investment increased from $1.9 billion to $82.7 billion. These funds were focussed on the purchase of existing assets rather than the creation of new productive capacity. Between 1997 and 2006,for example, transnational corporations made NZ $50.3 billion in profits from their New Zealand operations, yet only 32 per cent of this sum was reinvested domestically.

   Definitely time for a new direction from opposition parties.
   • Rosie 4.1

     4 September 2013 at 9:25 am

     Hi karol. Yes, I read this article yesterday and found it a good follow on, (with additional info) from last week’s Bryan Bruce doco. There’s many useful articles to be found on that site. I’ll continue to visit the site and read them but I’ve got to say I’m over commenting on it.

     There’s a lack of cohesion among the commenters, I would have thought by now there would be more a sense of community.The site is very Auckland centric in my opinion, and I don’t mean any offense to the Auckland authors and commenters here. On The Standard there is a sense of connectedness to the country as whole and articles about other regions, including an ongoing discussion that pops up around Christchurch.The Standard also showed it’s solidarity with it’s community by putting up a comments sections after both the Seddon earthquakes. That was appreciated. I lived longer in Auckland than any other place in NZ so I think I am qualified to make that observation about the Auckland centric nature of the site:-)

     What else? I’m over the like/dislike system – it’s a little childish.I know other blogs do it too but I only really visit two blogs and it just seems a bit more mature here, without the thumbs up/down thing going on.

     The Standard has a much better class of RWNJ’s present. The one’s over there are just rabid. Yesterday, while commenting on Democratic Distempers…………..” by Chris Trotter I came across a not necessarily RWNJ but a Jone’s apologist who was really tiresome. I found his attitude towards women offensive and that was the last straw for me. It was the most annoying and useless conversation I’ve had there.

     So big ups to The Daily Blog for fulfilling an important role in the world of online political talk, for bringing us the livestreams of the recent GCSB public meetings in Auckland and for posting good articles by good authors. But I think I’ll lurk around in the comments here more frequently than there from now on.
     • Greywarbler 4.1.1

       4 September 2013 at 11:43 am

       The position for the Clark government as I understand it, was that they were wanting to facilitate the growth of private business and the taxation and employment resulting would be beneficial, and they also wanted to maintain the social welfare net but ensure it would be operated efficiently. So really it isn’t left policy. It just wasn’t rabid right, more Centre right I think.
       • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1

         4 September 2013 at 9:34 pm

         You didn’t talk about the use of debt to create money in the NZ economy. Cullen used a massive build up of private sector debt to fuel that economic activity and to create the flows of money he could tax out of the private sector back into the govt sector.

         Simply put, Cullen exchanged public sector debt for private sector debt.
     • Murray Olsen 4.1.2

       4 September 2013 at 4:27 pm

       I actually like the comment rankings. It gives some very limited idea of how well particular ideas are supported or not.
       What I don’t like about TDB is the lack of user friendliness when you want to go through posts in chronological sequence, and Bomber’s insistence on blaming baby boomers for the ills of the world. Apart from that, I like the wide selection of authors, and hadn’t noticed that it was Tamaki Makauraucentric to any harmful degree. It’s also difficult to have an ongoing discussion there, with the wait for comments to be posted.
       • Rosie 4.1.2.1

         4 September 2013 at 5:45 pm

         Hi Murray. One of the things that put me off commenting was the wait time for comments to be posted. It seems to be down to an hour or less now, but I have been up to 6 hours in moderation. It doesn’t really foster the flow of conversation.

         The Auckland centric thing. It’s not harmful I agree. I guess I do notice it and maybe over sensitive to it. One of the reasons I left Auckland but by no means was it a deciding factor, was the sense I got from my Akld friends, workmates and acquaintances was this feeling that they were completely detached from the country, as if they existed in a city state, oblivious to what happened in other cities, towns and small towns. It was an inward looking sort of thing that made me feel claustrophobic. Like I say, probably my view of this skews my view of the site.

         Baby boomer focus. This generation does get a hammering on the site from time to time. I’d probably feel a bit miffed if I belonged to this generation and got blamed for everything, as if every single baby boomer was some multiple property owning greedy bastard responsible for todays problems. I noted the backlash one article re the reality of life for some of the baby boomers.

         Agree that theres a wide selection of authors, and that keeps me returning
     • karol 4.1.3

       4 September 2013 at 7:15 pm

       Rosie, I do think The Daily Blog focuses more on the author’s posts than the encouragement of discussion via the comments section.

       The “likes” section is a curious feature, and only is used by a minority of people, so It’s impossible to tell how representative they are.

       I guess the authors reflect Martyn Bradbury’s networks, which is why it is a bit Auckland centric.

       However, there are some very good posts on the blog, including that one from Wayne Hope.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.2

     4 September 2013 at 11:28 am

     These funds were focussed on the purchase of existing assets rather than the creation of new productive capacity.

     Of course FDI was more about buying up successful businesses – capitalists don’t take risks. It’s that lack of risk taking that the capitalists keep saying that the government has to borrow – they’re the ones who buy the government bonds and thus get a government guaranteed income.

     FDI is bad for a society. It gets the people of that society working harder and harder while getting less.
     • Colonial Viper 4.2.1

       4 September 2013 at 5:56 pm

       Greenfields FDI is something we do need more of, but not overseas interests coming in to scoop up our real productive assets with electronically created cash.
       • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1

         5 September 2013 at 10:52 am

         Greenfields FDI is something we do need more of

         Nope, don’t need that either. We can use our own electronically created cash to support greensfields and bluesky development by directing our own resources to them.
5. Sable 5

   4 September 2013 at 8:55 am

   WHY THE US IS REALLY INTERESTED IN SYRIA:

   http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1377892800.php
   • Chooky 5.1

     4 September 2013 at 12:28 pm

     @Sable…thanks for that link …really interesting
   • Populuxe1 5.2

     4 September 2013 at 3:31 pm

     Somehow I doubt it. Recall the Oil Crisis of 1973. The west has been hostage to OPEC from the begining – if anything it would be in the USA’s better interests to open up oil pricing to competition.
6. phillip ure 6

   4 September 2013 at 9:27 am

   (this really is a must-watch..(and i try not to overuse those words/that recommendation..)

   http://whoar.co.nz/2013/ed-i-have-a-new-heroine-her-name-is-hillary-mann-leverett-and-she-worked-in-the-bush-administration-in-the-lead-up-to-the-iraq-war-and-here-she-kicks-into-touch-a-gaggle-of-warmongering-presst/

   .this is 19 mins long..and is a masterclass in bullshit/black-propaganda puncturing..

   ..and is one that really needs to be watched by our (unthinking) warmongering-wannabe presstitutes/lefties/progressives..eh..?.

   phillip ure..
   • Draco T Bastard 6.1

     4 September 2013 at 11:58 am

     Actual link
7. bad12 7

   4 September 2013 at 10:11 am

   Are any of the contenders for the Labour leadership of or on this planet, proposing the ‘Living Wage’ for only low waged workers working directly for the Parliament or those contracted to the Parliament will do exactly what,

   Seriously, if you were a low waged worker earning 14 bucks a hour what would you do if it were proposed to you that you miss out on the living wage while the Parliaments workers got it, race out to vote for Labour at the 2014 election???,

   i sure as hell wouldn’t, such an elitist dividing of the workers is likely to see after the euphoria of the leadership contest wears off the 800,000 registered but did not vote bloc again withhold their votes at the next election,

   Here’s the Stuff poll from yesterday, not scientific but a lot of votes cast,

   Would a ‘Living Wage’ promise encourage you to vote Labour?.

   14,715 votes YES, 58.2% in favor,

   10,568 votes NO 41.8% against…
   • Linz 7.1

     4 September 2013 at 10:49 am

     About 20 of those yes votes are mine. I can remember Michael Bassett saying “we need to get our people to the polls as early and as often as possible.” Of course, he was quoting Mayor Richard J. Daley of Chicago.
     • felix 7.1.1

       5 September 2013 at 7:50 am

       That’s ok Linz, several thousand of the no votes are Simon Lusk’s autoscript.
   • weka 7.2

     4 September 2013 at 11:22 am

     Bad12, I also thought it was strange to raise the minimum wage in one sector, but I guess they are speaking as an employer. I thought Cunliffe originally said he would look at the raise for state servants and also all low income workers (i.e the govt as an employer would use the Living Wage, and it would also look at how to encourage this in the wider country). But in the last day or so he is being reported as saying he will bring in the Living Wage for govt workers. I think if you want to know what Cunliffe is actually saying you should ask him or one of his team or someone that is at the meetings 😉

     This is the problem with a public leadership process. It seems weird to me that the 3 candidates could be saying what they will do. Shouldn’t the party be setting policy?
     • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1

       4 September 2013 at 12:02 pm

       Shouldn’t the party be setting policy?

       Yes, it should be and why I like Loomio.
       • weka 7.2.1.1

         4 September 2013 at 12:38 pm

         Cool, they’ve gone public. Have you tried it yet?
         • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1.1.1

           4 September 2013 at 3:45 pm

           Not yet.
     • bad12 7.2.2

       4 September 2013 at 12:19 pm

       Lolz Weka as you should know by now i am not a member so attending any of the ‘meetings’ for me is out of the question,

       i will say it again tho, there will be only one result from extending the ‘living wage’ to Parliaments workers and NOT Legislating that ‘living wage’ for all the low waged economy,

       That will be that those workers who are left out in the cold are hardly likely to turn out for Labour in the 2014 election,

       If Labour can trumpet its KiwiBuild policy off of the back of a mere 1000 or so votes in a Herald online poll as ‘flagship’ which is apparently where the ex-leader judged the policies level of support from then they would be foolish to ignore the stuff poll,

       My opinion, oft expressed i know, is that if Labour goes into the 2014 election with a policy of having the ‘living wage’ in place in its first 3 year term of Government Labour will win that election hands down…
       • weka 7.2.2.1

         4 September 2013 at 12:37 pm

         Go read Cunliffe’s post here on ts, and then let me know what you think he is intending 🙂
         • bad12 7.2.2.1.1

           4 September 2013 at 1:07 pm

           Lolz, i have had my nose firmly fixed on ‘the net’ all morning digging out the zillions of links which debunk the economics 101 bulls**t that raising the minimum wage leads to unemployment, and the man Himself decides to Post here,

           From what David Cunliffe has said in that post He is in favor of the living wage being rolled out to all workers as it can be ‘afforded’,

           My view is that David Cunliffe and Labour need to qualify this in a far stronger message, IE, rolling out the living wage in the first term or over 3-4 years,

           i will tho put that idea into David’s post, where Lolz, i fully expect it to get buried among the 100’s of other’s that will have piled up while He is off to the next leadership contest in Tauraunga…
   • weka 7.3

     4 September 2013 at 11:39 am

     Stuff poll

     Would a living wage promise encourage you to vote Labour?

     Yes
     16960 votes, 59.5%

     No
     11563 votes, 40.5%

     Total 28523 votes

     Related story: Living wage plan ‘unworkable, unbelievable’

     http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9114732/Living-wage-plan-unworkable-unbelievable

     I’m curious how low income workers will respond to Key saying “If you can legislate at $18.40 a hour and have no implications, why not make it $30 and hour?”
     • bad12 7.3.1

       4 September 2013 at 12:42 pm

       i see in the linked article Slippery the Prime Minister almost waxing lyrical in fear at the ‘living wage’ should become an election issue,

       In my opinion it is exactly this point of difference leading into the 2014 election that Labour should use ruthlessly, it is not only a ‘vote winner’ it is also the ‘right’ thing to do for all those trapped in the low waged economy,

       Raising the minimum wage causes unemployment, Absolute F**king Bulls**t,

       And i quote: In the State of Nevada USA the minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, the Nevada rate of unemployment??? 10.2%,

       In the State of Vermont USA the minimum wage is $8.60 an hour, the Vermont rate of unemployment??? 5.1%,

       http://www.newyorker.com/…/the-case-for-a-higher-minimum-wage.htm...

       Obviously IF a higher minimum wage caused unemployment the State of Vermont should have a higher rate of unemployment than the State of Nevada, the reverse is the actual truth,

       From Noo Zealand, ”16-17 year old’s unemployment initially increased by 1.4-2.6%, BUT, that negative impact on unemployment was not evident a year later in 2010” unquote,

       http://www.blog.greens.org.nz/…/its-official-abolishing-youth-rates-did-not-increase...
     • Tracey 7.3.2

       4 September 2013 at 1:38 pm

       for the same reason he presumably thinks low taxes are great but stopped at 30% and 33% respectively. It has to be fair and workable.
8. Greywarbler 8

   4 September 2013 at 10:11 am

   Local and national elections. This report about new forum sounds great. See TS Ben Clark’s 3/9
   21st Century Leadership Election on the online Labour discussion Q&A.

   And tricky electronic ‘theft’ of personal name. 20/8/13 Taranaki Daily News on Line Matt Rilkoff
   A council candidate is seeking legal advice on how to deal with a website hijacking his name.
   Mortgage broker Murray Chong is one of 35 candidates standing for the city ward of the New Plymouth District Council and has the website http://www.murraychong.com for his campaign.

   However, another website, http://www.murraychong.co.nz, has also been registered and this one has nothing to do with Mr Chong.
   Instead this one leads to a Facebook page called Decision 2013 – NPDC which Mr Chong has previously stated he would not contribute to because it was biased against him.
   • Draco T Bastard 8.1

     4 September 2013 at 12:17 pm

     I’d say that the courts shouldn’t have too much difficulty there – it’s obvious that the second domain name is set up to discredit him.
     • alwyn 8.1.1

       4 September 2013 at 12:38 pm

       Would a court in New Zealand really give an immediate decision on removing the Facebook account, or whatever they would have to do?
       If it was going to take six weeks or more the election would be over and it wouldn’t matter.
       If you had won it wouldn’t affect you and if you had lost it wouldn’t help you as no-one would wipe the election and order a new one.
       Unless it has occured previously I wouldn’t think a judge would make a prompt decsion as they would probably be greatly concerned about the precedent they would be setting.
       Does anyone know whether it has happened previously?
       • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1

         4 September 2013 at 3:46 pm

         The URL has nothing to do with Facebook.
         • alwyn 8.1.1.1.1

           4 September 2013 at 4:55 pm

           OK, but I assume that what he wants to do is get the website “murraychong.co.nz” removed or cancelled or at least made inaccessible in some way. Is this what you mean by “the courts shouldn’t have much difficulty with this”; that the courts can order this to be done and the web site address must be deleted in some way? Please forgive the fact that I don’t know the technical details or the jargon of the internet. I’m just a user.
           The questions I have remain.
           Does it require an order from a court to scap the “biased” website?
           Is this routine in NZ or is this a first, and therefore likely to take longer than the election period to get done?
           • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.1.1

             5 September 2013 at 10:58 am

             Does it require an order from a court to scap the “biased” website?

             Not going to have anything to do with the website which is a facebook page but I believe the courts can rule that the URL “murraychong.co.nz” be handed over to him if it defames or misrepresents him. The website would remain but it would no longer have his name attached to it.
9. Ron 9

   4 September 2013 at 10:25 am

   How is the current leadership selection likely to affect Conference. Obviously there will be a bit of hoopla from the winners supporters but is there likely to be backlash if members perceive that they did not get a fair decision.
   Would it put you off going to conference if you really disagreed with decision?
   Just curious how this will play out.
   • bad12 9.1

     4 September 2013 at 10:30 am

     If David Cunliffe doesn’t win the contest the pages of the Standard will become unreadable, the Conference??? who knows…
     • Pete 9.1.1

       4 September 2013 at 10:41 am

       I don’t know about that. My first preference is Cunliffe. But I still think Robertson will be an improvement over Shearer. Plus whoever wins will carry a much broader mandate. I would expect a lot of grumbling, but I think this whole process overall is very healthy and the party is already stronger for it. I think either way, Cunliffe’s exile in the back benches will soon be over.

       If Jones wins, however, I think there would be the deafening sound of Standardinistas’ heads exploding all over the country.
       • felix 9.1.1.1

         5 September 2013 at 8:02 am

         Agreed Pete. Either of them will do the job well and either will be a huge improvement.

         Jones winning isn’t even worth thinking about. I have no idea why he’s in the Labour party, let alone in the leadership contest.
     • yeshe 9.1.2

       4 September 2013 at 1:21 pm

       perspicacious of you, Bad 12 🙂
       • bad12 9.1.2.1

         4 September 2013 at 1:38 pm

         Lolz, ‘He’ has to win to save the last vestiges of my fast fading sanity…
         • yeshe 9.1.2.1.1

           4 September 2013 at 5:19 pm

           ‘He’ just has to win. I, too, have but a vestige of hope remaining …
10. One Anonymous Knucklehead 10

    4 September 2013 at 10:49 am

    Nice one Len Brown: full review of CCOs in the offing 😀

    Time for some POAL directors to start thinking about their future 🙂
11. Draco T Bastard 11

    4 September 2013 at 11:07 am

    and another nail in the coffin of free-trade:

    “The trade figure just looks at the physical amounts of material traded, but it doesn’t take into account the materials that are used to produce these goods that are traded – so for something like fertiliser, you need to mine phosphate rocks, you need machinery, so you need extra materials.”

    In this analysis, the Chinese economy had the largest material footprint, twice as large as the US and four times that of Japan and India. The majority comes from construction minerals, reflecting the rapid industrialisation and urbanisation in China over the past 20 years.

    Instead of driving efficiency it’s doing the exact opposite.
12. James 12

    4 September 2013 at 11:19 am

    I’d like to hear what David Cullen has to say about education.

    National Standards is widely regarded by teachers and parents alike as a fiasco and a massive waste of teaching resources and time. The previous Labour government had put in place the NZ Curriculum, an internationally recognised system for improving the education of our kids.

    I’d like to hear more about what David would like to do.

    [lprent: I’m uncertain who you’re talking to. Michael Cullen was a former Labour minister of finance. David Cunliffe if the candidate. Shunted to OpenMike. ]
    • Tracey 12.1

      4 September 2013 at 2:06 pm

      cunliffee answered this question in the thread bearing his name, I think
13. captain hook 13

    4 September 2013 at 11:30 am

    I wish them all well and the whole process is a great way of raising consciousness of what the New Zealand Labour Party stands for.
    If the gallery journos had some more brains they would be able to explain this instead of trying to invent personal “STORIES” with no real significance.
    • Greywarbler 13.1

      4 September 2013 at 11:58 am

      Have you seen what coloured ties the Labour leader team are wearing today? And the cut of their suits? Winston seems to prefer double-breasted but I think the others prefer single style. They seem to adopt the short hair style, none have gone to the bald-alien-look. Generally I think they are all contenders for sartorial style. Who makes their suits – hand made or off the peg I wonder? Don’t know what their ideas will mean for the country though, I was too busy checking their appearance. And I did hear from a Labour source in the support team that one of them swore and threatened violence when the heavy member (naming no names) stood on his toe…
      /sarc
      • yeshe 13.1.1

        4 September 2013 at 1:22 pm

        Winston hs become a Labour leader ???
        • Greywarbler 13.1.1.1

          4 September 2013 at 2:02 pm

          yeshe
          Seeing I wasn’t being serious I had to throw Winston in – being double-breasted he could come down on the left or right. And he makes good copy for pseudo jonos like me mixing up a potfull of goodies to
          beguile the readers. Blah blah….
          • yeshe 13.1.1.1.1

            4 September 2013 at 5:21 pm

            🙂
14. Harriet 14

    4 September 2013 at 11:48 am

    “…..And in doing so we will not compromise our beautiful environment and clean green image….”

    So you agree then with EVERYTHING that the Greens will demand of you regards the enviroment/transport/housing ect ect?

    You’ll never get National’s left by taking that position – you probably won’t even keep your right voters!

    [lprent: That looks like a silly strawman argument. Did you not read my comment about what rules I was applying? Take it to OpenMike. ]
15. A. Foolish-Dickhead 15

    4 September 2013 at 11:49 am

    Well I don’t suppose tinfoilhat is actually wearing a tin foil hat, or that weka is a bird using it’s beak to tap a keyboard. What’s wrong with pseudonyms? Indentity theft? How’s about this, you let the question stand as P.Davis since no one is going to treat your imaginative handle with any of the intent this thread is supposed to contain. If it were just for people cheering and not to discover facts, why not say so to begin with?

    [lprent: And that looks like simple diversion. Diverting to OpenMike. Whine about it there. And read the policy. ]
    • captain hook 15.1

      4 September 2013 at 2:22 pm

      whale oil be a thik prik, there is a diversion for dickheads.
      I hope its permanent.
16. Greywarbler 16

    4 September 2013 at 1:09 pm

    http://thestandard.org.nz/david-cunliffe-2/#comment-691254
    Hear ye – hearye. The town cryer calls – Don’t miss hearing what David Cunliffe is saying. Go to the link and read the rest, also the varied questions on our concerns.

    But we should not be shy about investing for growth during a recession, nor underwriting high value long term infrastructure….

    Monetary settings need to be revised. Inflation is not the only goal worth pursuing, and while it matters, so does growth, employment and our external balance. Amending the Reserve Bank Act would be a significant priority.

    That’s enough to get debate going and to give you my general thrust. A Labour government that I lead would be true red not light blue; bold not shy, and compassionate not uncaring. NZ desperately needs a change and to achieve that we must win in 2014. That is why I am offering to lead Labour now.
    • Greywarbler 16.1

      4 September 2013 at 1:52 pm

      I managed to get the wrong link up. Sorry. Here is David Cunliffe’s actual comment.
      http://thestandard.org.nz/david-cunliffe-2/#comment-691191
    • bad12 16.2

      4 September 2013 at 2:03 pm

      Indeed, the next Labour lead Government needs to find the mechanism with which to uncouple ‘interest rates’ from the whole inflation equation,

      It is the thought of rising interest rates which scares the mortgages belt middle class in our society to silently agreeing to having unemployment and low wages used as a tool to keep interest rates low,

      My first thought is that the Minister of Finance should be tasked with the job of fixing interest rates…
17. yeshe 17

    4 September 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Just more unaccounted-for hidden costs in the Sky Cshitty deal .. sigh.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11119291
18. whiptydoo 18

    4 September 2013 at 2:31 pm

    I think David Cunliffe should stay away from Caspar.
    It is run for the very same people who leaned so heavily on their children that they had no other way out.
    Making an emotinal giltfest over what should be a personal tragedy is unconscionable.

    [lprent: Perhaps you should explain what Caspar is? Context helps. Moved to OpenMike as I can’t figure out the relationship to the post was ]
19. Chooky 19

    4 September 2013 at 2:51 pm

    An economist, has debunked the Neoliberal Myth that it is private entrepreneurs who should be credited with backing wealth-creating technology…

    In fact it is the State which is a lead risk taker and funder of innovation …and pioneering technologies of the past century points to the state, not the private sector as the most decisive player eg recipients of State Funding include:

    * Apple…and “every technology that makes the iPhone a smartphone owes its vision and funding to the state”..
    * Google
    * GPS
    * Touch screen displays
    * voice activated smart phones
    * pharmaceutical and biotech research
    * Green energy

    In an era of reducing public debt and State it is argued that big companies should be paying much more tax…to ensure that the State continues with R&D… and education, health and transport can continue to benefit from State investments in innovation.

    Mariana Mazzucato ,economist and professor of science and technology policy, University Sussex)…author of ‘The Entreprenueurial State: Debunking public vs. private sector myths’
    ( article ‘New Scientist’ 24 August, pp26-7)
    • James 19.1

      4 September 2013 at 3:49 pm

      [deleted]

      [lprent: see http://thestandard.org.nz/ubi-universal-basic-income/#comment-691717 ]
    • Colonial Viper 19.2

      4 September 2013 at 6:34 pm

      Mazzucato interviewed by INET
    • Draco T Bastard 19.3

      5 September 2013 at 11:09 am

      The Entreprenueurial State: Debunking public vs. private sector myths
20. Ron 20

    4 September 2013 at 3:21 pm

    What a shame that Government has decided to close the School Journal Publishing unit. A mere 100 people will be placed on the scrap heap and instead of the Government unit publishing the journal it will be outsourced probably off shore I would guess. No doubt some government friendly company will benefit from the deal. The Minister of Finance stated that all of the Government small business units companies will be investigated with a view to closing them.
    Nice one Bill!
    • Clement Pinto 20.1

      4 September 2013 at 7:00 pm

      A real shame from a stupid government that knows the cost of everything but values of nothing. A penny wise and pound foolish clueless lot.
    • millsy 20.2

      4 September 2013 at 10:14 pm

      “The Minister of Finance stated that all of the Government small business units companies will be investigated with a view to closing them.”

      This is how the government plans to sell of most of our assets. Wind the companies up and sell off the assets bit by bit. They are doing it with the railways. No need to go thru parliament or anything.

      I remember the School Journal as a kid, with its colorful cover illustrations, etc, with the year and volume “School Journal, Vol 3 1976”. A kiwi icon. The Americans have their apple pie, we have the School Journal.

      (Though, one of the great ironies in life is that the Labour government turned Leaning Media from a Crown Entity into an SOE requiring it to make a profit and return a dividend — Cullen and Mallard have as much a role to play in its demise as English and Parata).

      Here’s hoping the Correspondence School takes over the work that Learning Media does. It dovetails in quite nicely with its current role of providing distance education (which require the publishing of learning materials).
21. ianmac 21

    4 September 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Well who needs it. This National Government has worked hard (since 1991 I believe?) to close down Learning Media. This is the total SOE which produced the famously unique School Journal and other Educational Publications. They are saying that the School Journals will continue – for now but I suspect that soon even that will be closed as not financially viable. (And Roading is?)

    More than 100 jobs are under threat with the closure of the government-owned company that publishes the School Journal.

    Learning Media has produced the reading tool – familiar to generations of Kiwis – and other education resources for the last 79 years. It employs 109 staff, including editors, designers, project managers and software programmers.

    Many now-famous New Zealand authors, including Margaret Mahy and Witi Ihimaera, have contributed to the School Journal.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9125335/School-Journal-publisher-winding-up
    • Chooky 21.1

      4 September 2013 at 3:49 pm

      +1 Ron and ianmac….it should be retained! …it is an essential part of NZ culture and creativity matrix and the contributors have a place in generations of New Zealand school children’s hearts!!!!

      Nact are SOULESS cost accounting, cultural barbarians!..they are trying to reduce NZ to their back pocket wallets and trust share portfiolios ….and reduce us to a mindless yah saying backwater playground for their international friends…..

      Lets hope the new Labour Government reverses this decision
    • GregJ 21.2

      4 September 2013 at 4:54 pm

      It was not only authors such as Mahy & Ihimaera but the School Journal was an important source of experience and money for up & coming New Zealand artists – there was art work by Woollaston, Frizzell, Angus & McCahon in the Journal (many of these original artworks are held in Archives New Zealand). The School Journal has an vital role as a conduit of New Zealand culture, art & literature in the educational sector.

      Learning Media should never have been formed into a Crown Company in 1993 but it was the first step on the eventual road to what would I’m sure have been a privitisation if there had been a National led government into the 1999-2002 term. However Labour is not guilt free here either – it was a Labour led government that turned it into a State Owned Enterprise in 2005 further forcing it down a corporate path which has led to this point.

      This is definitely one resource that should be borne by the taxpayer. 30 years on and the neo-liberal wrecking continues.
22. Populuxe1 22

    4 September 2013 at 3:56 pm

    I am bloody furious about the government’s axing of the dear old New Zealand School Journal, the cornerstone of our near universal literacy rate for over 75 years. All because the Ministry of Education wouldn’t award contracts to it’s own Learning Media company. Utter UTTER Bastards!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9125335/School-Journal-publisher-winding-up
    • Greywarbler 22.1

      4 September 2013 at 4:09 pm

      pop
      Are you winding us up too?
      • Populuxe1 22.1.1

        4 September 2013 at 5:30 pm

        No. Why? Just because I disagree with some of the really nasty extremes and ivory tower nonsense preached by some here doesn’t make me not essentially left wing liberal – despite how the extreme ideologues would paint me
    • Roflcopter 22.2

      4 September 2013 at 6:14 pm

      Learning Media…. smash down contractor rates to below commercial rate, sell output to MoE well above commercial rate.

      MoE realise they can get more for the same amount given to LML, the rest is history. MoE went through a 2 year feasibility and appointment process to expand who was providing services, and LML never budged.

      It’s abject failure on LML board’s part to adapt, and they paid the price. Go ask anyone who contracted to LML, and a lot of their (soon to be) ex-employees, they’ll give you some interesting insights.
      • Populuxe1 22.2.1

        4 September 2013 at 8:08 pm

        Bullshit. I contracted to them occasionally and they were one of the best paying gigs around. Anyway that’s all beside the point – as an imprint the School Journal is a taonga.
    • millsy 22.3

      4 September 2013 at 10:19 pm

      It really comes down to a hostility towards public sector provision and ownership.

      RIP School Journal — Vol 5, 1987 will live on, however.
      • Colonial Viper 22.3.1

        4 September 2013 at 10:22 pm

        Awesome.
23. Greywarbler 23

    4 September 2013 at 5:02 pm

    Listening briefly to Mora, Fleur Revell – utterly trite and concreteheaded opinions from the right – how she can talk without feeling embarrassed by her shallow understanding, Sir Bruce Slane and Jock Anderson – one or both of them a bloated male with similar intellect. (I may be wrong – about the bloated male but not about having concreteheaded…..)

    Loved the bit from the female about the Greens being clever to get Sam Neill to make mention of environmental matters, not one of the flax weaving – hippies or something.
    • Tim 23.1

      4 September 2013 at 8:15 pm

      @Greywarbler ….
      Interesting you describe them as “utterly trite”.
      As I was listening (and wondering why I keep punishing myself), I thought
      trite – hackneyed – vapid – etc. It led me to synonyms on the net since I had nothing better to do whilst I waited for an appointment (other than perusing TS, Scoop and TDB).
      Afternoons with Jim Mora:
      trite hackneyed vapid banal routine formulaic stereotypical humdrum stodgy tiresome mundane safe dull …. etc. Intellectual anaesthetic for the masses apparently.
      Oh, and ‘NICE’ (and ‘fair and Balanced’ – just like Fuks Newz)
      • Greywarbler 23.1.1

        5 September 2013 at 10:11 am

        @Tim
        Philosophical – about words. Did we make them or is it that they made us, what we are today?
        And two more words. Slavoj Zizek. Have you ever watched/listened to Slavoj Zizek on-line. He has so many words spilling out, with such great thinking, that he has to use his hands to spread them round, he talks with his mouth and body – and great thoughts.
      • Greywarbler 23.1.2

        5 September 2013 at 10:23 am

        Incidentally those who like me don’t know who Fleur Revell is – Fleur Revell-Devlin (born Fleur Revell, 14 March 1972) is a New Zealand public relations consultant and former television personality and journalist. She won …

        She is pretty, and has long blonde hair, and is obviously a candidate for the NACT party list if she so wishes to get involved, with her immense understanding of all the important issues for the country.
24. Morrissey 24

    4 September 2013 at 5:29 pm

    Daniel Pipes is on National Radio tonight.
    Next week’s guest: David Duke?
    Wednesday 4 September 2013

    Every couple of months, for several years now, Brian Crump has interviewed a “middle east correspondent” on his Radio NZ National Tonight show. These correspondents—all women—have been either silent about Israeli aggression against the Palestinians (Lana Shaheen) or unashamedly supportive of it (Liat Collins, Irris Makler). Although it is quite clear that Crump, and on a couple of occasions Chris Whitta, have been disturbed and appalled by their “Middle East correspondents”, nothing ever seems to get done about it, and they are required to go through the gruesome charade a couple of months later with the same person or someone ideologically identical.

    This practice of interviewing “experts” from the hard right fringe continues on National Radio tonight, where one of the guests is the odious DANIEL PIPES, the founder of the extreme right wing “think tank” the Middle East Forum. Whoever made the decision to put Pipes on is either utterly ignorant, or approves of his rabidly anti-Islamic views. There are a great number of serious scholars that the producers of “Nights” could have contacted, but they have gone with someone who wrote this in 1990: “Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene…All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most.” Replace the word Muslim with “Jewish” and you could be reading a typical essay from a 1930s issue of the Völkischer Beobachter.

    Long time listeners will not be surprised that someone who writes such racist nonsense poses no problem for the serious and knowledgeable producers at Radio New Zealand.

    I recommend you do some investigation into the rancid output of Daniel Pipes, but, as a starter, the following article shows how Norman Finkelstein exposed Pipes’ mix of stupidity, fraudulent scholarship and extraordinary gullibility….
    http://rense.com/general77/norm.htm
25. yeshe 25

    4 September 2013 at 5:32 pm

    Is Peter Dunne saying outright that Henry et al are lying when they say they didn’t read the Vance emails they were sent ‘by accident”. Very clearly, he says he believes they were read !! Calls it a ‘shoddy’ inquiry. ( Just like we call his govt, but I digress.)

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9124672/Dunne-strikes-back-over-leak-probe

    Monty Python could not have written this more absurdly .. Dunne’s one vote delivering us all to the pitter patter of tiny spies everywhere and here is on the intrusions into his own secret and sacred life, right down to Dunne dunny visits apparently !! ( A wiser man might have chosen to omit that pun potential from his notes imho.)

    Wonder if he is angry enough yet to vote against the TICS bill .. living in hope I am, Mr Dunney, living in hope !
    • Herodotus 25.1

      4 September 2013 at 7:09 pm

      Re Dunn as part of the “willing buyer and seller. ” what did Dunn obtain for his singular vote ? 30 pieces of silver or something else. When does mike moores time run out in the U.S. ? Lockwood smith has the uk covered for a few years to come.
      As I have not read or heard anyone approach Dunn or key on the issue for a response.
26. North 26

    4 September 2013 at 6:03 pm

    Is this unusual for Rudman ? Don’t read him much. Here he lashes Key a bit…….assets sales.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11118940
    • GregJ 26.1

      4 September 2013 at 7:25 pm

      Rudman is generally seen as being a commentator/columnist of the left – he is no fan of Key or NAct.
      • North 26.1.1

        4 September 2013 at 8:50 pm

        Excellent chap then !
27. karol 27

    4 September 2013 at 7:24 pm

    While driving home tonight I heard a report on the latest NZ Initiative business survey on international competitiveness, on RNZ. I don’t know why anyone would take their research seriously. The radio report did have a comment from Bill Rosen saying it was totally skewed towards the interests of businesses and not workers. And there was a comment from Don brash about NZ’s low wages and vast inequality gap.

    This is the RNZ print report on it.

    According to the annual Global Competitiveness Index, New Zealand jumped five places to 18th, while Australia slipped one to 21st.

    The index measures economic competitiveness across 111 indicators including the time it takes to establish a business, innovation and infrastructure.

    The New Zealand Initiative, an economic think-tank which surveyed 50 local chief executives for the index, says New Zealand’s economy seems to be improving while Australia’s is falling behind.

    Audiofile:

    http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ckpt/ckpt-20130904-1739-nz_economy_ranked_18th_most_competitive-048.mp3
28. Penny Bright 28

    4 September 2013 at 10:00 pm

    FYI

    WHEN YOUR RIGHTS ARE UNDER ATTACK – SIT DOWN AND REFUSE TO MOVE! 🙂

    After not being invited to the Auckland School of Architecture Mayoral Forum, and after asking (nicely) to be included, and being declined – I arrived early at the Fisher and Paykel Auditorium, pulled up a seat, and refused to move.

    In my view it was both sexist and a form of political censorship, to not be invited, when I have already attended a number of Mayoral forums/ debates with incumbent Mayor Len Brown, John Palino, John Minto and the Reverend Uesifili Unasa.

    Especially given the work I have done as an ‘investigative activist’ in checking out the LAW, FACTS and EVIDENCE about the Auckland (Spatial) Plan (which the Auckland Draft Unitary Plan is supposed to implement).

    ie: The ‘million more people coming to Auckland’, is NOT lawfully-based because it is based upon the Department of Statistics ‘high’ population growth projections, instead of the ‘medium’ population growth projections, which they had advised Auckland Council to use.

    Initially, Auckland University security guards were called to try and encourage me to leave, but I sat my ground and said that although I understand they had a job to do – so had I – and that they should ring the Police because I wasn’t moving.

    In the end, commonsense and ‘fair play’ prevailed, and I was given the same opportunity as the four male candidates to explain my vision and answer questions (which I had not seen prior to this meeting).

    Full credit to the Reverend Uesifili Unasa, as the only other Mayoral candidate, who emailed me, offering his support.

    Again, I used the opportunity to tell people who is REALLY running the Auckland region – the unelected, invitation-only http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/membership

    A BIG thank you to fellow community activist, fellow ‘Public Watchdog’ Lisa Prager for her invaluable support.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/9126988/Mayoral-candidates-debate-future-of-city

    GO THE GRRRLS!

    😉

    Her Warship

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.og.nz
29. Tracey 29

    5 September 2013 at 11:12 am

    hmmmmm @

    Answer:

    “Hindsight is a wonderful thing. David Shearer put in a huge effort as Leader,and I am really grateful for that. I think we need to be more direct in our communications about the alternative we are offering, and to stand up and fight for the people who are being neglected by this government.
    by grant.robertson 11:02 AM

    Follow up Comment (1)

    Jamie Pontague

    Did you point this out to David Shearer and the caucus?

    Thanks for your comment! It’s in moderation..

    First Question

    “Looking back at the last eighteen months of the Labour party, what would have been done differently (and in what respect) had you been leader?”

    Grant also says he will give senior roles to Cunliffe and Jones if he is leader…

    Pondering that…
    • karol 29.1

      5 September 2013 at 11:21 am

      Tracey @ 11.12am, this looks like the NZ Herald’s live chat with Grant Robertson.

      So much BS, then?
      • The Al1en 29.1.1

        5 September 2013 at 11:30 am

        Bs indeed.

        I’ve asked along the lines of…

        “Grant, ABC, which you are a part of, which selected Shearer, who failed miserably, what makes you think you are qualified to put yourself forward as leader with their backing?
        Don’t you think you should do a Gillard and resign from politics if you lose?”

        No answer. 😆
        • Tracey 29.1.1.1

          5 September 2013 at 11:36 am

          LOL…

          Well, his judgment could be called into question in that he believed Shearer was the right person and ot it so horribly wrong..
      • Tracey 29.1.2

        5 September 2013 at 11:34 am

        One concern is that no one is being terribly honest about the Shearer year. Jones says nothing (about this and many things), Cunliffe says he learnt alot and has spent the last year making changes…Robertson basically says hindsight is 20/20 and I need to do what I thought shearer was going to do but I dont know why he didnt and you can trust I will.
30. Tracey 30

    5 September 2013 at 11:16 am

    To all those that say equality has arrived and that the armed forces have “changed” their attitudes toward women, be advised…

    He is facing courts martial and has NOT been found guilty as yet.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9129152/Court-martial-for-senior-military-commander

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