Open mike 06/08/2024

52 comments on “Open mike 06/08/2024 ”

• Comments are now closed

1. bwaghorn 1

   6 August 2024 at 6:44 am

   https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/08/02/social-service-provider-family-start-losing-14m-in-funding/

   National is removing the fence from the top of the cliff.
2. gsays 2

   6 August 2024 at 7:18 am

   I am not wanting to pick a fight with teachers, I did that a lot when young and it never went well for me…

   While following the change in maths curriculum, I am reminded of helping my son with his maths. He is 22 now. While going through primary school, he had been given several 'strategies?' to use, depending on his style of learning.

   So far so good. I'm nearly 60, so when I came through, there was a LOT of rote learning and generally only one way to do things, eg long division (even the name sounds arduous and uninviting).

   What I found with my son, was regardless of the approach, he didn't have the times table memorised, which seems like the fundamental to any maths strategy that follows.

   Is the proposed new approach that far out of whack to get our youth achieving better results?
   • tWig 2.1

     6 August 2024 at 7:34 am

     The problem is that the curriculum change is more about continual testing of children and ranking of schools (except, of course charter schools), in the manner of the failed Ofsted in the UK. There, 'under-performing' schools were forced to become charter schools, something mentioned as a possibility here as well.

     Luxon spent a lot of time talking with Tories when he went on his jaunts overseas as Leader of the Opposition.

     'Bean counting (by bureacrats, not children) is not education'. First heard that from NZ educators in the 1980s.
     • gsays 2.1.1

       6 August 2024 at 8:57 am

       There does seem to be an ideological to and fro in education with the change in governments.

       I thought the 'cell phone ban' was a no-brainer. I work in a high school which has had that rule for a while.

       I wonder if the education political football is a result of the Nats reacting to the support of Labour by the teachers union.
       • Mac1 2.1.1.1

         6 August 2024 at 9:21 am

         I attended a meeting with a National Cabinet Minister recently. He called the teaching of mathematics 'crazy' and expressed a very strong dislike of the teacher unions. Now a former teacher, I have noticed for fifty years that many people have strong opinions about teachers and teaching. It almost seems that, of itself, being a product of the system makes one an expert in it……
   • Nic the NZer 2.2

     6 August 2024 at 7:56 am

     Children are presently expected to learn by rote the times tables in school. In fact this is much earlier than for me in the 80s when I remember doing this only final 2 years of primary.
   • Kay 2.3

     6 August 2024 at 8:00 am

     Just yesterday I was discussing the rote timetables with my elderly mother. Given that decades later we can still do them- clearly there are long-term benefits to rote learning for certain subjects.

     Interestingly, yesterday we discovered some young girls we know are doing the rote times tables at school (a small town state primary school) so it does exist in places, which is very encouraging. We threw some multiplications at the girls and they got most of them without thinking, so the system still works 🙂

     (I could never do long division in any size, shape or form- total brain block. I praised the heavens once we were allowed calculations in 4th form!)
     • Descendant Of Smith 2.3.1

       6 August 2024 at 8:43 am

       Rote learning has its place but doesn't inspire much to do with maths. Learning about other systems like binary, or the Mayan base 20, or using trig to work out the height of a tree, or discovering you could easily multiply by 11 in base 10 by simply plonking down the end digits and adding the middle two together, or moeibus strips were the types of things that were much more interesting to primary school me.

       The standardisation and benchmarking that existed back in the 50's and 60's is why some kids ended up in the dumb classes or in places like Lake Alice (true of all OECD countries). By high school it was "Taranaki maths" classes for those who couldn't get it.

       This won't make most kids whose brains struggle with maths any better off. Some effort into making maths more exciting, parent maths community education and alleviating poverty will likely make a bigger difference. Finding kids interests and figuring out how to link maths to that would also be of benefit – computer and console gaming, mechanics, telling stories (data analysis), medicine, sewing (making 5 pointed stars with one cut) – there's heaps of possibilities.

       It isn't about getting everyone to the same level – it's about getting enough people enthused enough about maths to become competent in those professions that need them.

       It is a continuation of the “if only you had the right attitude” bullshit foisted on the poor by the well off – same as pietous monogamy. One rule for the well-off one rule for the poor.

       I know plenty of people who can’t do maths but can hunt and kill a pig and dive for seafood to feed their family.
       • gsays 2.3.1.1

         6 August 2024 at 8:50 am

         Akin to yr Mayan maths and base 20 (I will have to look them up), I came across Vedic mathematics.

         Basically base 9, when it gets to large computations, it becomes almost instinctive.
       • Kay 2.3.1.2

         6 August 2024 at 9:32 am

         I was in A stream for maths until having to start on epilepsy medication half way through 5th form. I ended up failing SC maths, that drug destroyed my ability to do most maths. In the end, the stuff I did retain has been the only things of practical use- beating the supermarkets at their own game with being able to calculate 'specials', and add up scrabble scores very quickly 🙂
         • aj 2.3.1.2.1

           6 August 2024 at 9:40 am

           My grandson's school in West Auckland includes partitioning in maths which in his particular case has got his mind focussed (8yo)

           https://nzmaths.co.nz/resource/partitions

           Purpose

           This unit is about partitioning whole numbers. It focuses on partitioning numbers to “make a ten” or a decade when adding whole numbers, for example 8 + 6 can be solved as (8 + 2) + 4. The unit uses measurement as a context.

           On a side issue – Lester Levy this morning on RNZ doesn't fill me with confidence. Interview will be up shortly.

           https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/20240806
       • Mike the Lefty 2.3.1.3

         6 August 2024 at 1:11 pm

         I remember as, a young student around 1970 that my parents, who were both school teachers, told me I was learning a different style of maths, called "the new maths". Not that it meant particularly much to me then because I didn't know what the "old" maths had been, although my parents thought the new maths was a definite improvement. I don't remember a lot of learning by rote, although there was something on the multiplication table.

         I also remember my father used to teach mathematics by buying a chocolate bar and dividing it up for his pupils, teaching divisions and fractions by example. Perhaps that is part of what is proposed in the new maths curriculum? We don't know yet.

         Children should all grow up with basic maths skills. How to add, subtract, divide, multiply and percentages are all vital skills to know manually, even though most of the time we use electronic calculators.

         But given how this government likes to meddle in the classroom, like banning cellphones in classes, how much you can trust them to think of the children first and their political support second is highly debatable.
       • roblogic 2.3.1.4

         6 August 2024 at 3:20 pm

         This obsession with rote learning times tables has destroyed people's perception of maths.

         Times tables as taught with 144 equations on the wall, is a terrible and boring way to pound abstract unconnected factoids into children's brains.

         There are actually interesting ways to teach multiplication, like in Japan using the 10 finger trick, or chunking the "times tables" into interesting patterns, or noticing that the 9X table is a lot like the 10X table minus a bit. But a lot depends on teacher ability and confidence.

         The Education Review Office is well aware of these challenges and published an excellent guide earlier this year to help primary teachers.
         https://evidence.ero.govt.nz/media/hluht5p1/making-it-count-teaching-maths-in-years-1-3-good-practice-guide.pdf

         The traditional ways of teaching maths (from the 1970s or earlier) were awful. Perhaps that's why Luxon and Willis can't do their sums and crashed the economy.
         • bwaghorn 2.3.1.4.1

           6 August 2024 at 6:07 pm

           I had it x tables drummed into me in the 70s forgot the lot , now if u haven't got my ph handy I sure don't start singing the times table , I split into nearest rounds numbers or 10 , 100s and 1s
           • roblogic 2.3.1.4.1.1

             6 August 2024 at 7:39 pm

             I never "memorised" them, I simply learned the patterns and the rules of multiplication.

             Even now I picture the coloured blocks, rectangles, and groups that model the process.

             This is a cool solution if you don't have a calculator handy…
   • Cricklewood 2.4

     6 August 2024 at 9:12 am

     Ive had the same experience although my daughters still at highschool so I guess a long term problem. Sadly was told that everything was rosy with maths through primary and intermediate so was oblivious, but yeah hit highschool and it was immediatly apperent that the maths was nowhere near where it needed to be.

     I spent a heap of time with her trying to hel, like you I discovered that not having memorised the basic times tables was a massive handicap that made problems look far more daunting than they actually were and the added steps of calculating the basics blew out the time taken to solve a more complex problem.

     Going back to learning the times tables by rote from a very young age would go a long way to helping.
     • tc 2.4.1

       6 August 2024 at 1:06 pm

       Totally.

       Times tables up to 14 where along the walls in primary which along with cuisenaire rods nailed it for me.

       I can still visualise that troublesome 8 times tables.
     • Psych Nurse 2.4.2

       6 August 2024 at 1:11 pm

       I think people confuse mathematics with arithmetic. Mathematics is all about problem solving, you need language skills to read the question and present the answer. A+B=C etc.
       • Cricklewood 2.4.2.1

         6 August 2024 at 2:02 pm

         Good point, I guess it would be fair to say that we don't teach arithmetic well which then leads to difficulties with mathematics.
       • roblogic 2.4.2.2

         6 August 2024 at 3:57 pm

         Maths symbols are a language – a structured form of reasoning. Unfortunately a lot of maths tests are poorly written and the student is required to make sense of shoddy requirements. Good practice for a career in programming, probably 😛
     • roblogic 2.4.3

       6 August 2024 at 3:27 pm

       Wrong – rote recall is the opposite of what maths is about. What those kids were missing was understanding. Being able to solve 6 x 7 by understanding related facts about quantities and patterns is more important than regurgitating a (possibly wrong) factoid with no underlying reasoning
   • Stephen D 2.5

     6 August 2024 at 1:40 pm

     There was aperiod in the 2000s where the Numeracy Project, as mandated by the ministry was rammed down teachers throats. Endless giving students strategies. No effort into basic facts. There is no point in having 5 strategies to work out a problem if you can't even multiply the numbers.

     The hangover from this is in my Year 7 class, at the beginning of the year leass than a quarter would be able to complete a 12X12 grid in undewr 10 minutes.
3. gsays 3

   6 August 2024 at 9:04 am

   Just heard Craig Finlay on the radio asking for accountability for the nearly $1B wasted by Willis and crew over the ferry debacle.

   He was forthright and unflinching, something we need more of.

   Will try and link when it's up
   • satty 3.1

     6 August 2024 at 9:21 am

     Maybe there’s a connection between the maths education in this country and N. Willis ferry debacle?
     • Kay 3.1.1

       6 August 2024 at 9:33 am

       
     • gsays 3.1.2

       6 August 2024 at 10:26 am

       Excellent!
   • Incognito 3.2

     6 August 2024 at 10:43 am

     Here’s one link; it’s still behind the subscription wall, but that tends to come down after a little while:

     https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/06/ferry-fiasco-will-echo-for-decades-with-private-public-partnership/
     • Incognito 3.2.1

       7 August 2024 at 8:56 am

       freely accessible now
   • gsays 3.3

     6 August 2024 at 11:04 am

     Link asking pertinent questions of Willis and her advisors

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018949935/union-says-cancelled-ferries-could-cost-half-a-billion
   • tWig 3.4

     6 August 2024 at 11:14 am

     Big Hairy News covers McNulty's Q+A on local government funding and home affordability. Accused of wasting $1bi on planning for 3 Waters, he pointed out that the planning stage took years, and the waste came when the Coalition canned the project.
     From 10 min.
   • roblogic 3.5

     6 August 2024 at 3:36 pm

     Maritime Union: Cancellation of ferry replacement could cost further $500m

     RNZ attempts to blame Labour for being reluctant to stump up extra billions – hopefully the reporter will balance this rubbish tomorrow, by detailing National's utterly insane and irresponsible act of sabotage.
   • roblogic 3.6

     6 August 2024 at 6:52 pm

     Speculation about National's plan B for the Cook Strait

     The E-Flexer ferries the govt wants instead of the Hyundai ones
     -cost more
     -smaller
     -don't have rail
     -take years to arrive
     -50% larger than current ferries, so they'll need all the wharfs & stuff Willis cancelled iRex over
     -probably be a PPP to hide costs

     https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/06/ferry-fiasco-will-echo-for-decades-with-private-public-partnership/

     — @ClintVSmith
4. Ad 4

   6 August 2024 at 9:14 am

   Finally the paranoia and scaremongering about Imane Khelif starts to get walked back, after the damage has been done.

   “A significant error was made in a headline on a story … about Algerian boxer Imane Khelif incorrectly describing her as transgender. She is not. Additionally, our initial correction of this error neglected to note that she was born female,” the Globe wrote in its correction on Saturday. “We recognize the magnitude of this mistake and have corrected it. This editing lapse is regrettable and unacceptable and we apologize to Khelif, to Associated Press writer Greg Beacham, and to you, our readers."

   https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/08/03/sports/editors-note/?utm_campaign=Globe_Twitter&s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Atwitter
   • SPC 4.1

     6 August 2024 at 12:56 pm

     Some media presumed because of the XY test result claim that this was a matter of transgender athletes competing

     The two boxers were designated female at birth and raised as females. As was CS.

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

     Other than the two boxers, 2 footballers in the Zambian team.
   • Psycho Milt 4.2

     6 August 2024 at 2:04 pm

     "Correction" isn't the word for what the Globe is doing here. People who are "born female" don't somehow become male later in life. They don't fail simple sex tests for female sports. It's not a "correction" but an "assertion," and an easily disputed assertion at that.
   • weka 4.3

     6 August 2024 at 2:45 pm

     Additionally, our initial correction of this error neglected to note that she was born female

     Liberals again monkey wrenching language so we can no longer describe reality.

     Does the Globe mean:

     • Khelif is biologically female?
     • Khelif is biologically male, but was thought to be female when born due to a DSD, and we're too gutless to say so?

     Either way the Globe are idiots. The best they can say is that Khelif's biological sex is unknown. That they called Khelif trans is a sign they are completely out of their depth.

     Too many people think this doesn't matter. If women cannot use language to describe our reality, feminism will die.

     For clarity, male babies with 5-ARD DSD cannot be born female.
   • roblogic 4.4

     6 August 2024 at 3:51 pm

     "The IOC had a straightforward way of resolving this, of course. To conduct its own tests for DSD. It did not do this, having been captured by ideology"… (source)
     • SPC 4.4.1

       6 August 2024 at 4:02 pm

       At the moment they are only captured by inclusion policy – allowing sporting bodies to make fair competition and safety rules (such as tests for doping and levels of T and the cause … and some sports the advantage proffered by levels of T through puberty and teens before adult testing).

       The inclusion policy being based on legal identity (designated female at birth).
5. adam 5

   6 August 2024 at 10:54 am

   The Ugly Project 2025, a video explanation. From a legal perspective.
   • SPC 5.1

     6 August 2024 at 4:55 pm

     One reason why she should consider someone like Sherrilyn Ifill NCAAP and Howard University for VP.
6. SPC 6

   6 August 2024 at 12:47 pm

   Levy finally notes that the problem is not a budget crisis requiring administrative savings (the focus of which is wrong because HNZ is still in the process of implementing reform) but a lack of funding for a fully staffed and funded health system (which includes primary care providers).

   Three weeks into his new role as commissioner of Health New Zealand, Dr Lester Levy says the finances are worse than he thought.

   As well as a massive budget blowout, Te Whatu Ora is facing a shortage of clinicians, overworked and burnt out staff, long waiting lists, and provinces and regions without adequate cover and having to resort to telehealth services.

   This has been the case for years and one reason for the move to HNZ to mitigate the post code impact.

   Change needed to happen quickly, or the agency faced going broke in coming months.

   "For us, this is not a marathon, it's a sprint," he said. "We have to move really quickly to secure our financial position as quickly as possible to order to overcome this particular cash-flow issue that is hanging over us."

   Cash flow – business insolvency language in a government funded service – dystopian (looking for a cashed up outside funding source).

   But while financial issues were critical, "that's not the main show in town," Levy said – rather, "reducing waiting times, because New Zealanders are waiting too long".

   But three weeks in, he could not put a number on the shortage of health staff.

   He said he had launched a review to determine where staff shortages were most severe.

   "I have a review being undertaken right at the moment to determine if there are any areas that are potentially unsafe or challenging," he said.

   "As soon as I have that, I'll have a clearer view of whether there are any critical issues in relation to staff shortages."

   HB's had staff shortages because they had budget issues, this is just aggregation of the regional past.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/524282/health-nz-finances-worse-than-thought-commissioner-lester-levy
   • Psych Nurse 6.1

     6 August 2024 at 1:15 pm

     His first action has been to appoint four new regional managers. Another lot of mush.
     • SPC 6.1.1

       6 August 2024 at 1:53 pm

       In accord with National policy for 4 regional bodies – what they rejected for water reform.
7. PsyclingLeft.Always 7

   6 August 2024 at 1:18 pm

   Push..back

   Woolworths staff vote for strike action over low wage offers, unsafe staffing levels
   "This is a case of one of the largest and most profitable businesses in New Zealand deciding that their workers no longer deserve a fair deal and must accept whatever they put on the table – it just doesn't work that way," Lampert said.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/524273/woolworths-staff-vote-for-strike-action-over-low-wage-offers-unsafe-staffing-levels

   Let them eat..cake? While Woolworths throw cash at a rebranding spend of $400 Million !

   Countdown to become Woolworths in $400 million rebrand

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/493925/countdown-to-become-woolworths-in-400-million-rebrand

   To what effect ?

   Survey shows Countdown shoppers sore about spendy store switch to Woolworths

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/498946/survey-shows-countdown-shoppers-sore-about-spendy-store-switch-to-woolworths

   Pay your Workers more, you overpriced, duopoly arseholes.
   • Rosielee 7.1

     6 August 2024 at 2:32 pm

     They don't want to pay staff decently, or employ enough. They'd rather put in more of those awful machines, which I refuse to use.
     • roblogic 7.1.1

       6 August 2024 at 4:32 pm

       The Self-service machines are a disgrace, everyone forced to use one should get a 10% discount.

       They whine about shoplifting while making conditions ideal for more of it.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 7.1.2

       6 August 2024 at 7:52 pm

       Yea, the Grocery Duopoly make money hand over fist ($ million a day..) but as always..those kind never want the Workers to get a fair deal. And this is what the jerks pay them..at Woolworths (note it goes up..after 5 years !!) ..others similar

       At Woolworths, a nightfill worker would start on an hourly rate of $24.93 at the moment, and move on to $26.21 after five years.

       A checkout operator would start on $25.03 and progress to $26.31 after five years. A checkout supervisor would start on $26.19 and move up to $27.55 after five years.

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/520663/what-do-supermarket-workers-really-get-paid

       And what the poor Workers have to deal with….

       Union national secretary for retail and finance Rudd Hughes said workers hailed as heroes during the Covid-19 pandemic were no longer treated that way by employers.

       "Understaffing is a major contributor to workers' stress and burnout, and it makes supermarkets much more unsafe workplaces for staff than they should be," Hughes said.

       Abuse of staff by customers and other incidents of violence and dangerous behaviours at work were a growing problem, and more likely to occur with fewer staff around.

       "No one should have to deal with regular and sustained danger and abuse at work, and least of all those who aren't even paid a living wage and have few prospects for improvements in the workplace," Hughes said.

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/519921/grocery-workers-struggle-with-low-pay-understaffing-and-customer-abuse

       Shame on you Woolworths and your Duopoly buddy
8. gsays 8

   6 August 2024 at 2:07 pm

   This is more Catch-22 than Heller could have scripted.

   Our neo liberal finance minister is asking our uber neo liberal treasury, to solve the doubling of electricity market prices in our neo liberal power system.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/digital_bulletin/story/2018949971/latest-rnz-news-bulletin

   First item.

   It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.
   • SPC 8.1

     6 August 2024 at 2:34 pm

     National sells half shares in the state owned power companies and can boast it is earning more in dividends since.

     That this cost is passed onto locals in bills, or cost passed on by local businesses is one thing, another is that it reduces competitiveness of local companies against those in other nations.

     When this has a high profile consequence, National will look to find a way for the common folk to subsidise the cost of power to other users – all while pretending that it is trying to reduce living costs of the public.

     … prescription cost, rising cost of visiting a doctor … rates … home insurance (government having no plan to help with that) …
9. Ad 9

   6 August 2024 at 3:39 pm

   If Kamala Harris wants to generate fairly easy and far-reaching bipartisan regulatory legislation, she could do worse than propose strong anti-trust legislation against Google, Facebook, Apple, and Microsoft platforms.

   https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/05/business/google-loses-antitrust-lawsuit-doj/index.html

   It will take more than a District Court judge to make this one stick.
   • Macro 9.1

     6 August 2024 at 4:02 pm

     Imagine getting that thru the Senate without a filibuster .
10. SPC 10

    6 August 2024 at 4:51 pm

    Starmer's Standing Army

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/08/06/uk-rioting-standing-army-of-specialist-police-to-be-formed/

    Is it job creation?

    Or a fight for survival? As per democracy vs Project 2025?

    Likud Starmer vs Hamas Farange.

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS