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Open mike 07/05/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:45 am, May 7th, 2014 - 184 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

184 comments on “Open mike 07/05/2014 ”

  1. it’s always nice to have a soundtrack-option..i feel..

    ..and given how every word from collins’ mouth –

    since her ‘i just popped in for an oravida-cuppa..on the way to the airport’ – whopper..

    (‘do you take milk with that?’..)

    ..has been either outright-bullshit..or lies by omission..

    ..i found i had to look back..

    ..to the works of john fred and his playboy band..

    ..and their tuneful-ditty..

    ‘judy in disguise..with glasses’..

    ..somehow..it seemed the best fit..

    ..’judy in disguise..that’s what you are..!’

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1

      We covered this yesterday: read the comments prior to the exchange in Parliament.

      A nice slow simmer. That’s what we want.

      Better luck next time you flailing imbecile 😉

    • ..after politics..collins should become a ‘consultant’ for those companies blocked from access to china..for their milk-products..eh..?

      ..she could point to oravida and say:

      ‘look what i did for them!’..

      • ianmac 2.2.1

        Yes phillip. Perhaps she could go back to China now and get those infant milk powders that are currently blocked at the border, unblocked with the help of her friendly Chinese border official. She knows the ropes.

    • millsy 2.3

      Well, she can pretty much forget about getting John Key’s job when he heads back to the corporate world.

      She might keep her job at the moment, but her career has reached its high point.

    • felix 2.4

      What did you expect, chris? The frickin apocalypse?

      Sheesh man, pay attention.

      • Tracey 2.4.1

        apart from actually resigning she is such damaged goods already. I think Chris73 may have missed a couple of nuances yesterday, or tabled documents.

    • framu 2.5

      the fact you think judith is somehow winning anything in this is hilarious – keep it up dreamer

    • Tracey 2.6

      good to see where you stand on ethical behaviour by Ministers chris73.

      of course you had NO view on Clark’s painting for charity, trip in the car, or very arms length connection tot he peters/glen affair… didya.

      • Colonial Viper 2.6.1

        I suspect lprent can tell how many Parliamentary IP addresses connect to The Standard over the course of a week…

        • Tracey

          I have wondered this… perhaps he could post a number, if not any identities, pseudonyms or otherwise.

    • fender 2.7

      “Collins survives bruising barrage”

      Well if you expected her to pull out her firearm in the house to end it all I guess she “survived”. But limping from the house and chucking her phone in the nearest bin on her way home for leave is hardly surviving, it’s more like conceding defeat.

    • Treetop 2.8

      I do not think that embarrassing a border official is a victory.

      Were you a border official, would you want to be part of a sideshow/circus in a countries parliament?

      Collins Orivida friends know for sure what happened at the dinner and whether or not Collins discussed access of infant formula.

  2. philj 3

    The legal high issue highlights the government we have. One that is perceived to be corrupt and overseeing the damage to people with government inaction. An uncaring and incompetent government, and Shonkey.

  3. millsy 4

    According to a live Q and A session with NBR commentors, John Key revealed yesterday that he sometimes read this blog.

    So if you have something to say to the PM, now is your chance. It would be good if he also would have a crack at commenting himself as well…

    • Colonial Viper 4.1

      Not a revelation really. Staff from his office check this site daily and record material from it for later use. Key has in fact read out whole passages from The Standard in the House during Question Time.

      • Tracey 4.1.1


        My concern is how many MPs spend our time reading blogs. As for it being part of some folk’s jobs, scarier still. This while turning the vulnerable into pariahs.

        • Colonial Viper

          A huge amount of energy in Wellington is spent on collecting political ammo or defending against point scoring shots from the other side.

          Actually addressing the core interests of the 99%…well, that’s just another item on the to do list.

          • Draco T Bastard

            Actually addressing the core interests of the 99%…well, that’s just another item on the to do list.

            Only if by addressing you mean that they recognise that the 99% do have such concerns and that they’ll mention them but not do anything about them. The To Do list would look something like:

            To Do:
            1) Transfer more of the communities wealth to the rich.
            2) More photo ops with some rich person. Is the Queen available?

            500) Pick lint out of arse hair
            1001) Say something nice about the rabble.

    • Chooky 4.2

      millsy….lol…well this certainly adds a new dimension

    • Tracey 4.3

      “John Key revealed yesterday that he sometimes read this blog.”

      But not police reports on John banks…

    • fender 4.4

      “It would be good if he also would have a crack at commenting himself as well…”

      He did try, but “Brett Dale” (Key?) said he was “quitting the internet” 🙂

  4. Paul 5

    What a right wing toadie Espiner is…

    • bad12 5.1

      Yes, revealed, glaringly so with the interview of Labour’s Grant Robertson on RadioNZ National this morning,

      Pathetic would be the best word to describe Espiner’s sudden change of attack where He expects Grant Robertson to answer for what David Cunliffe did or didn’t do surrounding donations in the Labour leadership contest,

      Unfortunately if the right wing media are handed a stick it is obvious that they will use it any chance they get…

      • ffloyd 5.1.1

        Espiner is a hack. I did laugh when he started to lose his temper. “It is my job to ask these questions”!!!! I think the days of media walking all over the Opposition in interviews is well and truly over. And about time. The baby must be keeping him awake, he sounded very tetchy. Grant R did a great job!

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.2

        Unfortunately if the right wing media are handed a stick it is obvious that they will use it any chance they get…

        Especially when National are being shown up for the corrupt arseholes that they are.

      • just saying 5.1.3

        I’m usually resigned to these kinds of double standards – when the media compare relative misdemeanours of the opposition parties with outright corruption from members of the government, as if they were equivalent, but that took the cake.

        One good thing though, when Espiner was banging on about his job ‘holding politicians to account’ Grant said something like “Yes and it’s my job in opposition to hold the government to account”. I thought it was good that he remembered what his job was and stuck to it.

        Doing that without fear or favour, rather than with one anxious eye always on the focus groups and the polls, would ironically, give them the credibility that they seek in vain in taking the advice of the image managers and the PR wonks.

  5. jh 6

    “World On Fire” by Amy Chua
    A book about how market minorities come to dominate a majority. It is talking about the third world but is important to countries like ours where elites are “nation building” and it is assumed migrant ethnicities will be part of a patchwork, not dominating the overall effect.

    “World On Fire” is about a phenomenon Chua calls “market-dominant minorities,” groups like the Chinese in Southeast Asia, Jews in Russia, whites in Zimbabwe and Indians in East Africa and Fiji. Market-dominant minorities control hugely disproportionate percentages of their countries’ resources. Filipino Chinese comprise just 1 to 2 percent of the Philippines’ population, but control all of the country’s major supermarkets, fast-food restaurants and large department stores, and all but one of the nation’s banks. A similar situation obtains in Indonesia. Jews make up a similarly tiny proportion of Russia’s population, but of the seven “oligarchs” who control virtually all of the country’s business, six are Jewish. Lebanese dominate the economies in Sierra Leone and Gambia, while Indians dominate the economy in Kenya, along with a smaller, indigenous minority tribe called the Kikuyu. Similar examples abound worldwide.
    It’s enormously touchy to talk about the economic element of communal violence, especially regarding Jews, since rhetoric about one ethnic group exploiting another is so often a precursor to atrocity. But that’s exactly why Chua’s book feels so urgent. No matter how politically incorrect it is to talk about, her book makes clear that minority market domination is a reality in much of the world, one that’s tied up in many ways with smoldering group hatreds and explosions of mass slaughter, and one that’s made worse by Western policies.


    • vto 6.1


      Though there are many subjects one is not allowed to speak of lest one gets labelled (insert chosen bigotry here).

      • Tracey 6.1.1

        what makes you think this article would lead to labels of bigotry vto?

    • Tracey 6.2

      what religion and colour are the top 80 earners on the planet jh?

      just to be clear this is about greed and corruption, not about race or religion

      • Colonial Viper 6.2.1

        what religion and colour are the top 80 earners on the planet jh?

        Not really the right question IMO. These people don’t earn income, they OWN and CONTROL wealth. Totally different concept, and of course it is the difference between how the working class think and how the oligarchic class think.

        BTW Bloomberg reported in 2012 that the 70 richest delegates to the Chinese National Peoples’ Congress had a collective fortune of US$90B. Does that help answer your question. I think the US still has the world’s largest number of billionaires still, however.

        • Draco T Bastard

          These people don’t earn income, they OWN and CONTROL wealth. Totally different concept, and of course it is the difference between how the working class think and how the oligarchic class think.

          Exactly and it is that control that puts them in charge of our representatives and thus our democracy is actually an oligarchy.

        • Tracey

          nope, didnt answer my question at all. nicely set up to ask and answer your own though cv.

      • greywarbler 6.2.2

        Perhaps you could look up that book and tell us if the answer to your question is there.
        It sounds as if it will be a big read. I could imagine I’d have to get it from the library. But could shed light on rage and resentment.

    • Chooky 6.3

      jh +100

      ….A very important issue and here is what Chris Trotter has to say as it applies to New Zealand

      ‘A Different Address: Mai Chen assesses Auckland’s future’


      • karol 6.3.1

        I really don’t understand how Trotter came to draw those conclusions re Mai Chen, her book on Auckland, Chinese immigration.

        I did a post on a review of Mai Chen’s book.

        I haven’t read the book, but saw nothing in the reveiw about Mai Chen’s views on immigration, or the Chinese community in Auckland. And there’s nothing in the quotes Trotter uses that indicate that slant. And it looks to me like Trotter has taken those quotes from the NZ Herald review of Chen’s book,

        As stated in my post, from that review, it looked to me that Chen is about supporting the corporate views about Auckland’s future – nothing to do with immigration at all.

        And Trotter uses a quote from someone totally different re Chinese and immigration to clinch that particular slant.

        • Chooky

          dont you think that…”supporting the corporate views about Auckland’s future” has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with BIG MONEY and increasing the population hugely with IMMIGRATION?

          ( NZers birth population is static…and many New Zealanders have left for Australia because of John Keys NACT hostile policies for ordinary NZers )

          ….particularly corporate views will be interested in the HUGE PROFITS to be made from infrastructure …eg roading , private railways , private monopolies of building infrastructure/ amenities along choice real estate and business area eg wharfs ?….NZ is prime Real Estate ready in Corporate eyes both here and overseas for the taking

          ….eg on Morning Report …1) an anonymous company based in the Cayman Islands wanting to take charge and develop Aucklands wharf area….2.) the huge areas of Auckland being opened up for housing ( high rise?) developments….without consultation of Aucklanders…being pushed by who?….even the Mayor seems to be out of control

          ( and why is there a housing crisis anyway?….surely it is because of the policy of allowing foreigners to come in and buy up New Zealand housing ….which should really be made affordable for young New Zealanders and first home buyers?)

          lets face it corporate views ARE big business views and big immigration views …big easy development profits to be made to line the trust funds and pockets of the powerful moneyed oligarchy

          • tinfoilhat

            “….even the Mayor seems to be out of control”

            Seems ??

  6. and could the greens have got it more wrong..?

    ..first they vote to test legal-highs on animals..

    ..now they don’t vote to correct/undo that mistake..

    ..and when you put that together with their abandoning of their long-term mandate to argue/fight for the ending of cannabis-prohibition..

    ..(norman:..’it’s not on our to-do list’..)

    ..you pretty much have the trifecta…

    ..and a quizz-question:..

    ..who is the green party mp charged with fighting/arguing for an end to cannabis-prohibition..?

    ..betcha you don’t know..!

    ..and just that fact..speaks volumes to how much the greens have lost their way on this issue..

    ..how can it not..?

    • bad12 7.1

      The ALCP is the political party who’s reason for existing Phillip is to legalize cannabis, if there were any groundswell of voters who see the issue as one of importance we would expect to see the ALCP with representatives in the Parliament,

      There are none, so your continual crying ”wah wah wah the Green Party wont attempt to strong-arm other parties with no such policy into legalization of your current addiction” is as laughable as it is pathetic,

      Face the facts Phillip, the Green Party doesn’t exist to validate your poly-addictions, so, you will just have to content yourself with being a criminal addict every time you light up…

      • phillip ure 7.1.1

        “..The ALCP is the political party’.. that surfaces once every three years..

        ..gets their election-funding..

        ..spends that..

        ..and then disappears again..

        ..’till the next round of funding..

        (then of course..there is that campbell-live poll..showing that 84% of respondents support ending cannabis-prohibition..)

        ..and of course there are two ways to approach legalisation..

        ..one is the american free-market model..with licensed growers/retailers etc..but with private enterprise taking up those roles..

        ..and there is the uraguayan-model..

        ..where the state will grow/supply the cannabis..

        ..and the president of uraguay is so determined to remove the criminal-element completely from the pot-market..

        ..he has deemed that this govt-pot will be sold for about $2 a gram..

        ..(i favour the second model..

        ..imagine high-quality govt pot..sold at two bucks a gram..?


        ..imagine the floods of tourists we will get..?..

        ..and surely..as tourism-minister..key should be factoring this in..?

        ..you’d think..?..)


        • bad12

          Off you go then Phillip, Uraguay would seem the place for you to be,(snigger), you may ‘favor’ all sorts of things Phillip, including, laughably, giving the users of the drug P access to Morphine as a means of withdrawal,(guffaw), but, the sooner you gain the sense that no-one is listening to you the better for your mental health it will be,

          The Dunne’s, both senior and junior have dealt the death blow to any cannabis reform here for probably 20 odd years, having made an abysmal mess of first legalizing and then criminalizing synthetics the Parliament en masse will run a mile from any suggestion of any law reform of any drugs for years to come,

          Had the ‘synthetics experiment’ been a success we could have in the future i would suggest have seen an amendment to that legislation of cannabis without unduly ruffling the feathers of the ‘wowsers’, it is obvious now that said ‘wowsers’ having mounted a successful campaign against synthetics will have been emboldened to apply the same pressure to any proposed cannabis law reform,

          By the way, Kevin Hague is the Green Party spokesperson on Drugs and Alcohol and thus has responsibility for the Party’s position on cannabis law reform…

          • phillip ure

            “..By the way, Kevin Hague is the Green Party spokesperson on Drugs and Alcohol..”

            who knew..?..


            • bad12

              Who knew???, obviously not you Phillip, but, discussing law reform with the relevant people aint how you roll is it,

              ”Wah wah wah-ing” is far more your style right, dissing the only Party that has a positive approach to cannabis law reform on a regular basis will sure get you a long way Phillip,

              A long way toward being ignored as some loose cannon that is…

              • “..dissing the only Party that has a positive approach to cannabis law reform..”

                ..aside from that laughable-fantasy..things have moved on…that writer obviously hasn’t yet heard the news..


                • bad12

                  Link-whoring to your Attention Whoar site gets you the same Phillip, i have never felt the need to read more of your dribble than what you cock your leg to squirt here at the Standard so you wont be able to count me among your million,(ha ha ha) viewers…

                • and of course something else for key to consider when debating moving under urgency to solve this problem..

                  ..is that if he does do this..

                  ..he will in one fell swoop take away a lot of the votes the internet-party will get.

                  ..(should they..as expected..present a colorado-model election-policy..a guaranteed-vote-garner..)

                  ..and surely..just that fact/political-reality…

                  ..that ability to hand to deal dotcom a major blow..

                  ..should make moving on this very tempting for key..

                  ..you’d think..?

          • phillip ure

            “..you may ‘favor’ all sorts of things Phillip, including, laughably, giving the users of the drug P access to Morphine as a means of withdrawal,(guffaw)..”

            ..that one is definitely a lowest-orifice pluck..

            • bad12

              Yes Phillip, i well remember the discussion where you posted that very idea here as a comment,nice of you to admit that it was utter shit talk from you,

              Are you now leaping into denial of ever having made such a comment here at the Standard,(a hint: your claim was that P addicts given Methadone as ‘treatment’ for their addictions was a ‘life sentence’)…

              • i have never made such a statement/claim..giving morphine to ‘p’-addicts would be utter madness..

                ..that writer is probably confusing my recommendation that methadone addicts be switched over to morphine….

                ..as morphine is much easier to withdraw from..than is methadone..

                ..he also appears to have conflated my dismay at ‘p’-addicts being put on methadone..

                ..these are the ingredients of his confusion..

                • bad12

                  Dance on the head of that pin hard and fast Phillip, read what you have written there carefully, (i would go fetch the relevant comments, but don’t plan on wasting hours of my day upon your ilk),

                  So, in your latest, ‘P’ addicts are being given a life sentence by being put on the methadone program, a lifetime addiction to Methadone in other words,

                  You then Phillip propose that those suffering this ‘life sentence’ of the Methadone program be instead given Morphine,

                  The fact that you over-use plenty of them yet are unable,(more like unwilling as you pin dance), to connect the dots of your various little leg cock/squirts of invective where you jump from point to point not seeing the relevance of what you have written is laughable but par for the course as far as what you write goes,

                  If as you say, ‘P’ addicts are being placed on the Methadone program and at the same time you advocate that the methadone program be replaced with,(laugh), a Morphine program, then you are indeed advocating the use of Morphine on ‘P’ addicts,

                  A ‘lower orifice pluck’ Phillip would be your assertion that Morphine is easier to withdraw from than Methadone, please provide us all with a link to the ”Science” which says this…

                  • “..If as you say, ‘P’ addicts are being placed on the Methadone program and at the same time you advocate that the methadone program be replaced with,(laugh), a Morphine program, then you are indeed advocating the use of Morphine on ‘P’ addicts,..”

                    whoar..!..that’s a groin-stretcher..!

                    ..and surely deserves some sort of false-equivalence-award..?

                    .you’d think..?

                • MaxFletcher

                  You did say that p addicts were being given methadone. You failed to back up this statement.

                  • you file the oia’s…

                    ..and what i said was i knew this had happened in northland..

                    .(.using the justification of ‘harm minimisation’..how ‘sick’ is that..?..)

                    ..i said i assumed other areas also did the same..

                    ..and another commenter weighed in at that time..

                    ..confirming this happening in other parts of nz..

                    ..but like i say..you file the oia’s..

                    ..or give me the money to do that..

                    ..and i will..

                    ..it is definitely a story worth following up on..

                    ..hope that clarifies that for you..

                    • fender

                      The p addict person you speak of that has been given methadone must also have an opiate addiction. Blood tests to determine opiate usage are carried out in order to see that they reach the threshold required before the dangerous methadone is prescribed. This policy of reaching the threshold has resulted in low level opiate users increasing their use in order to qualify for receiving methadone.

          • greywarbler

            Why don’t you two leave it or kiss and make up or shake hands and make up?

            • phillip ure

              i am trying to ignore him..

              ..(and would like him to ignore me..it’s getting very boring..)

              ..but when he makes up stuff about me..

              ..i have to respond to that..


              • greywarbler

                phillip ure
                You may have to decide to be superior and ignore his petty rumblings. He would really be brassed off about that. So you would win by your silence.

                Of course if you did not choose to accept this mission phillip, the above thoughts and method could apply to bad12 just as well.

    • I think the Greens got it right on this. The vote last night to go back to repeating failures on drug bans was a backward step.

      Kevin Hague may be a quiet worker but he’s on the ball on drug issues.

      Politics is about picking opportunities. Until not long ago the Psychoactive Substances Act may have been a toe in the door for cannabis law reform, but for the moment that opportunity has flown out the window with the political reaction to a smaller problem that was concentrated in far fewer retail locations and highlighted by media. This initiated a wave of public opposition to drugs and politicians reacted to this.

      It’s now looking very unlikely there will be any cannabis reform until 2017. Key has pledged to not allow it while he is PM, and Cunliffe has also said Labour won’t look at it.

      So Greens can’t do anything but work quietly trying to build networks and waiting for an opportunity to help momentum swing the other way to where it currently is.

      • phillip ure 7.2.1

        “..Kevin Hague may be a quiet worker but he’s on the ball on drug issues…”

        was he the one who ensured cannabis-reform was not on the green party ‘to-do’-list..?

        ..and is his being a ‘quiet worker’ the reason for his stunning-silences on this issue..?

        ..at a time when states in america/uraguay are moving/have moved to legalisation..

        ..if he wouldn’t speak up on the issue in those circumstances..

        ..when the fuck would he..?

        ..(is he shy..?..withdrawing..?..)

        • Tracey

          and yet you give credit to banks for his stand on behalf of animals despite his stance on other matters but cant extend that to the greens?

          • phillip ure


            ..these are meant to be pillar-policies of the greens..

            ..but they have voted to torture/kill animals to test this legal-high crap..

            ..they have been silent on the issue of cannabis..

            ..they have agreed to fracking/drilling/mining…

            ..can you find me one green policy i can ‘credit’ them for..?

            ..i can’t see any…

            ..(that’s a serious question..’cos i can see little difference between green/labour policies..)

            ..and that is not a good look for the greens..

            ..not where they are meant to be..

            (update:..i guess there is always the insulation-policy..

            ..you could run that flag up the pole..again..)

            • bad12

              Phillip, ”pillar policies” of the Green Party, says who, you perhaps, the Green Party have a policy to decriminalize cannabis but as no other Party represented in the Parliament has any inclination to have cannabis legalized or decriminalized then what point would there be in the Green Party continually pushing such a policy,

              To make you feel better next time you light up ”the crutch” you use for your real addiction perhaps…

            • Tracey

              dont confuse what you want to see with what is.

              cheerlead for banks all you like, and bag the greens all you like. just be careful what you wish for.

              • get a grip..!..tracey..

                ‘cheerleading’ for banks..?


                ..i give him credit for ak dog-parks..

                ..and for standing up against animal-testing..

                ..but that’s about it..

                ..and i am not ‘bagging’ the greens..

                ..i am pointing out political hypocrisies..

                ..and i do that whatever party is doing that..

                ..and what am i ‘wishing for’..?

                ..what are you on about there..?

  7. Maureen 8

    Back page of Herald: Rachel Glucima. Leave timely as Collins faces health troubles

    Sub heading: Cabinet minister looking forward to some peace and quiet

    Both are BIG headlines

    In the article as in later interviews she talks about her concern for Maurice – she was angry that he was being asked to stand down as an MP by the media etc. She wasn’t disputing his being stood down as a minister. Covering herself.

    How can the Herald mix gossip with politics and allow such a misleading article to go through?

    • karol 8.1

      And amongst the pro-Collins spin, this:

      Collins has put up with weeks of intense questioning from media on the Oravida business, and back-biting from Opposition circles, including some behind-the-scenes of her own party, who have remained nameless.

      White-anting in National! Who’da thought?

      • mickysavage 8.1.1

        Fascinating they should use Glucina for this. If you were to drop real news you would use a real journalist? And Glucina’s crocodile tears for Collins are weird. She takes great delight in insulting others and running personal smears but now wants to play the sympathy card?

        • phillip ure

          collins’ sullen/sulking demeanor in parl yesterday..

          ..is the nearest she gets to/her take on..humility…

          ..key must’ve told her to stow the serial-arrogance..

          and to be ‘umble’..

          • Tracey

            question time is actually a pretty safe place to hide. You know the questions in advance, can work out what most supplementaries might be and the speaker relies on robust debate to hold off enforcing much on anyone answering questions…

            • karol

              It’s not the Qu & A’s so much, as how much coverage they get in the MSM. The whole of the TV 6pm news last night was about Money and Privilege within the culture of the Nats. Mallard’s stunt got repeats of his statements about Collins and husband profiting from Oravida etc. Plus the Cabernet Club… the narrative builds.

              • Tracey

                Agreed. Chris73 seemed to think Collins head had to explode otherwise she had “won”.

                Mallard showed his guile by getting chucked out, making sure it made the news.

                • @ tracey..aye..!..mallard deserves tactics-brownie-points for that one..

                  ..for getting thrown out..

                  ..had he withdrawn as asked..that ‘a half a million to collins family from oravida’..

                  ..wouldn’t have been crawling all over our screens last nite..

              • Bearded Git

                Agreed karol.

                The Cabinet Club is adding greatly to this perception of National Party corruption/privilege and will run and run…good job TV3 and Tovah O’Brien.

        • Tracey

          makes you wonder where she gets alot of her smears from…

          I’d like to think it’s a good sign that no hard news journalists would write it.

        • veutoviper

          Not surprising IMO. Glucina and Collins are very close friends apparently – and both with WO , despite Glucina and WO past ambivalent relationship. There was a discussion on Public Address a month or so ago, and their Twitter accounts have indicated the close relationships.

          Glucina’s gossip article on the Herald today also includes this re Collins

          She was expected to be a guest at the Canon Media Awards on Friday, at blogger Cameron Slater’s table. But Collins says she won’t be attending now. Her husband may attend. A self-imposed vacation is what Collins (and the Prime Minister) has prescribed – and that goes for a break from the media too.

          I also read on a media person’s twitter in the last day or so (cannot remember whose) that Glucina is moving (or wants to move) to be a political reporter. Tui Ad time.

      • Tracey 8.1.2

        national Imploding
        national in Chaos
        National emboriled in back-stabbing
        Key lots control of caucus

        funny, haven’t read those anywhere

      • Treetop 8.1.3

        And sexual abuse survivors have put up with years of flashbacks, (sometimes daily) they can also be misunderstood by people who should know better e.g. minister of ACC.

        Some people have not been given a diagnosis for physical health conditions and have seen two many specialists in the last decade; they remain unwell and untreated with unique and complex conditions which have many anomalies.

        If I sound like a bitch, being kicked in the guts again and again has made me fight for my rights and no one is going to deny me or undermine me.

    • Plan B 8.2

      Best bit of the article-

      Collins’ ego has had a shock. Taking enforced leave was the only option.

      ego leave – that must be a new thing

  8. In the late 1980s a small group of Auckland Marxists created a graphic novel which imagined Rogernomics ending in a workers’ revolution. After decades in obscurity, this remarkable work is going on display: http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/after-end-of-history.html

    • Tracey 9.1

      Think how long it has taken to unravel the intricate strategy of manipulation by the tobacco companies, for people to realise they were being conned and lied to?

      A similar strategy and funding has gone into the lie of trickle down and associated brighter future claims…

    • Tiger Mountain 9.2

      @ Public Films: As one who was ‘there at the time’ and still here, an interesting article on Dave Bedggood and his archives. The NZ hard left today while seemingly all over the road with it’s small groups formed from splits of splits has actually consolidated a bit in effect, through Te Mana Movement particularly. And is the main force behind several non Labour Party affiliated unions and active work and relationships with community movements such as Glenn Innes housing and No Drilling.

      Sectarian behaviour appears less entrenched embracing the “work with and struggle against” method.
      “Roger Comics” I recall and is still relevant. If your company closes down why take it meekly? You’re likely screwed anyway so occupy the premises and take a stand.

    • Murray Olsen 9.3

      Whenever I have another look at Roger Comic, I’m amazed by how relevant it still is. Some of the names have changed, and that’s about it.

  9. Jenny 10

    Talk about shifty

    Labour’s environmental pledges, “Missing key details”.

    Conservation group Forest and Bird also welcomed the pledges, but believed they were “missing key details”.

    The group’s advocact manager, Kevin Hackwell, said he was disappointed the announcements did not preclude the continued sell-off of the rights to mine and frack on conservation land, and the rights to drill for oil and gas in some of New Zealand’s deepest waters.

    “We are pleased that Labour says it won’t subsidise the oil and gas sector any longer. But its policy appears to allow the continued search for new reserves in some of our best parks and in our deep seas to continue,” he said.

    Jamie Morton May 6, 2014


    ….Mr Parker said his party would not ban the development of oil and gas, something environmental groups had called for.

    Jamie Morton May 6, 2014

    I wonder why?

    Is it because that National and Labour are not “much different” and still “close”, on mining and oil drilling?

    David Parker, says his party’s policies on oil, gas and mineral extraction are close to those of the Government.

    “I don’t think we are much different from National,” Parker said. “They’ve continued on with the programme that we started in respect to oil and gas,”…..

    Parker was Energy Minister during the last Labour Government and said about $20 million was spent on seismic surveys to supply to big oil companies and entice them to New Zealand.

    Grant Bradley July 27, 2012

    Because of the impending holocaust of climate change, the Green Party policy is “No New Coal Mines”.

    It is good to see that a Labour led government will no longer be subsidising the oil and gas companies, but what about coal, the most dangerous fossil fuel of all?

    Climate change and coal are those “missing key details” not addressed by David Parker.

    Is David Parker like his close friend Shane Jones a climate change denier who believes “growth” is more important than sustainability?

    Is the deliberate missing of these “key details” because Labour intend to continue on with National’s programme of pouring tens of $millions into Solid Energy to “cook the climate” while starving the renewable sector of government investment?

    Green Party MP Gareth Hughes says the money to bail out Solid Energy would have been better spent on a “just transition” for the coal workers “to jobs that don’t fry the planet.”

    As David Parker lays out a climate change policy that is a virtual carbon copy of National’s. Where does this leave any chance of a Labour/Green coalition?

    • Bearded Git 10.1

      It’s easy-vote Green Jenny.

      • Jenny 10.1.1

        I wish it was that simple. In any foreseeable government configuration, for at least the next three terms, possibly longer, either Labour or National will hold the whip hand on climate change policy.

        We are running out of time.

        We cannot wait until the Green Party are the government.

        Till then we have to shift the major parties of government Labour and National (either one or both) away from their comfortable bipartisan agreement on climate change.

        That is the reality we face and must come to terms with.

        In practice this means that the Green Party cannot afford to compromise on any of their bottom line demands, and instead should be demanding that Labour move to their position.

        Trying to bring change to a system that resists change

        If the Greens move to Labour (and National’s) position to get cabinet positions they will be lost, to become indistinguishable from them. This is how the system works. It is a tried and tested way of wearing down and changing and corrupting political parties seeking to make real change.

        If the Labour party refuse to accept a ban on all new coal mines and deep sea oil and all the other extreme methods for continuing climate change, then the Greens should sit on the cross benches only giving support on supply and demand. This would leave the Green MPs free to fight and organise and lobby and persuade Labour (and National MPs) this is how they will preserve their leading role in parliament. To go into formal coalition means to accept the majority cabinet view and give up all right to do these things, in essence giving up their leadership to Labour.

        The thing about leadership is it is not just about numbers. To sway parliamentary discourse from a minority position that is real leadership. Rod Donald was a past master at this. In saying they have no bottom lines, I don’t think the current Green leadership have grasped the essence of this legacy and in fact in my opinion are on the verge of throwing it all away to become another bland grey pragmatic party of suits indistinguishable from the rest.

    • um..!..jenny..a reality-check here for you..

      ..is it not true/correct that norman is ‘quite relaxed’ with labours’ drilling/mining/fracking-policies..?

      ..this is the green party stand as ennunciated by him in his ‘no-bottom-lines!’-interview..

      ..so..by all means have a go at labour for their drilling/mining/fracking planet-fucking policies..

      ..but please..!..don’t try to hold the greens up to us as some paragon here..

      ..words are cheap..eh..?

      ..it is their actions (or lack of them) that tell the true story..

      ..and that there is nothing labour could do that would stop the greens doing a deal with them..

      ..speaks the loudest of all..

      ..how can it not..?

      • Jenny 10.2.1

        um..!..jenny..a reality-check here for you..

        ..is it not true/correct that norman is ‘quite relaxed’ with labours’ drilling/mining/fracking-policies..?

        ..this is the green party stand as ennunciated by him in his ‘no-bottom-lines!’-interview..

        phillip ure

        What’s your point Phillip?

        How about a citation, maybe a link even?

        Here’s a reality check for you. When have I ever gone soft on the Greens for backsliding on climate change?



        New Coal Mines is Green Party policy in sharp contrast to Labour

        And I find it hard to believe that anyone could really be relaxed about the death of tens of millions of fellow human beings and the destruction of most of the biosphe\\

        cv Xdv

        • Jenny

          Oops! the cat.

          [lprent: Fixed the dups. ]

          • phillip ure

            fixed the dups..

            ..and took out my reply..

            • phillip ure

              (no you didn’t..i stuck it at end of thread..)

              why do you need a citation/link..?

              ..haven’t you heard of the no-bottom-lines interview norman gave to one of the wknd political talkshows..?

              ..and aren’t you somewhat dancing on the head of a pin there with the mining policy..?

              ..norman said that even if labour mines..that will not stop the greens coalescing with them..

              ..so..?..yr point..?

              ..and is that all you could come up with..?

              ..what does that tell you..?

      • phillip ure 10.2.2

        why do you need a citation/link..?

        ..haven’t you heard of the no-bottom-lines interview norman gave to one of the wknd political talkshows..?

        ..and aren’t you somewhat dancing on the head of a pin there with the mining policy..?

        ..norman said that even if labour mines..that will not stop the greens coalescing with them..

        ..so..?..yr point..?

        ..and is that all you could come up with..?

        ..what does that tell you..?

    • Draco T Bastard 10.3

      It is good to see that a Labour led government will no longer be subsidising the oil and gas companies, but what about coal, the most dangerous fossil fuel of all?

      Oh, FFS.

      Coal comes in many forms some of which aren’t suitable for burning. But even if the coal is suitable for burning doesn’t mean to say that it’s going to be burned.

      Basically, it’s not mining the coal that’s the problem but the burning of it. Stop the burning and encourage better use of the coal that is brought up.

      • Jenny 10.3.1

        That’s so illogical and counter intuitive that it hardly deserves a reply.

        So let’s make it simple and break down your ridiculous argument with a comparable example.

        “Basically, it’s not mining the coal that’s the problem but the burning of it.” DTB

        Basically, it’s not taking my money out of the bank that’s the problem but my spending of it.

        I ask you, Draco, why would you go to the cashflow machine and get cash out if you weren’t going to spend it?

        Maybe you are one of those weird people that will stuff it under your mattress, rather than leave it in a bank.

        Why do we dig up coal if it wasn’t going to be burnt?

        Remove the temptation, find alternatives

        I think the problem here Draco, is that you are hoping that the market will decide how much coal will be dug up. The old invisible hand of long dead Adam Smith. Well I can give you the answer to that old crock. The market will use all the coal that we can dig up, and more.

        I am not against the free market per se, but it may need a little bit of channeling. Remove coal from the market place. Market demand will seek to find alternatives (albeit more expensive labour intensive ones).

        Scientific American reporting on the latest American government scientific report on the climate released by the White House on Tuesday, puts it this way:

        Climate change has been made a polarized issue largely by those who ideologically oppose the kind of big government intervention that solutions to climate change will require.

        David Ropeik For Scientific American, May 6, 2014

        If you read any of my stuff you will often see that I refer to the World War II solution. This was big government intervention writ large. (A global mobilisation on the same scale as that for WWII is what experts say is the only viable way to wind back climate change.)

        When I was younger I often used to go to the Auckland War Memorial Museum. In the Hall of Rememberance one of the exhibits that caught my imagination, was a bicycle. (I don’t know if this exhibit is still on display). What was remarkable about this bicycle, and why it was there, was that it had no tyres. In WWII because it was required for the war effort, all rubber was removed from the New Zealand market place . It is hard to describe in print, but what the owner of this bicycle had done was replace the rubber tyres with helical springs fastened around the rims of both wheels. The display was to show the effect of rationing on New Zealand society and the inventive way people overcame it.

        This is just one example (and probably the most startling one). But there were many others, for instance because of the rationing of fuel, urban door to door milk deliveries (remember them), for the period of the war, went back to horse and dray. Less visible changes happened to the infrastructure. Because of the shortage of copper required to make brass casings for bullets and shells, overhead copper cabling was replaced with galvanised fencing wire, obviously less efficient, but did the job. I believe that some of this old galvanised overhead lines still remained in situ and in use carrying current in remote areas as late as the 1980s until they were finally replaced with the new aluminum based alloy carriers.

        But what has this to with coal?

        It may interest you to know that currently New Zealand Steel at their Glenbrook Steel mill are currently doing trials on coal substitutes, and Fonterra also who use coal in their milk drying boilers are also doing and have done previous studies on alternatives. (I can’t be bothered finding the links again).

        The alternatives are there, but of course they will never be resorted too until coal is removed from the equation.

        This why the Green Party policy No New Coal mines, working up to a complete ban on all coal mining makes perfect sense, and Draco your illogical pitiable excuse is just that.

        From Scientific American:

        The climate skeptics whose ideological and group identities are tied to the fight against action will not be swayed. They are already picking the report apart. But the National Climate Assessment makes the case that for action on climate change so credibly and persuasively that history is likely to look back on it as an important step that finally pushed America to take the threat of climate change as seriously as the danger demands.

        Unfortunately Draco with your pettifogging justification for more coal mining, I think we can safely conclude that you are firmly in this camp of climate skeptics who will not be swayed, whose ideological group identities are tied to the fight against taking action against climate change.

        • Jenny

          Climate “War” criminals need to have their deadly addiction removed from them at the source.

          US coal company sues the American government over what they term the government’s “War on Coal”.

          Coal company Murray Energy filed a complaint Monday against the Environmental Protection Agency, claiming that the agency failed to evaluate how air pollution regulations affected jobs in the coal industry. In the complaint, the company and several of its subsidiaries outlined how the EPA’s enforcement of the Clean Air Act placed “immense pressure on the electric generating sector” by imposing “costly regulations” that make it expensive and impractical for new coal plants to be built.
          “The Administrator has continued to administer and enforce the Clean Air Act in a manner that is causing coal mines to close, costing hard-working Americans their jobs, and shifting
          employment away from areas rich in coal resources to areas with energy resources preferred by the Agency,” Murray writes of EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy, the defendant in the case….

          ….In its complaint, Murray also refers to the EPA’s crackdown on emissions from coal-fired power plants as a “war on coal,” a term that the company — and the coal industry in general — have used many times over the last few years. In November 2012, just days after President Obama was re-elected, Murray fired 163 of its workers, citing Obama’s war on coal as the reason.


          If the “War on Coal” was prosecuted with the same fervor as the war on drugs, or the war on Terror, or even the war on inflation, the world might have some chance to recover, before the biosphere is irreparably denatured and humanity becomes devastated and impoverished on a global scale in which none will be spared.

          As it is, “baked in” climate change is likely to already negatively effect the health and welfare of coming generations.

          “Give Peace A Chance” says Right Wing, Washington Times editorial.

          Neither America nor the developing world can afford to wage this unnecessary war.

          • Jenny

            Time is running out.


            “Americans face choices” explains the Congressionally-mandated report by 300 leading climate scientists and experts, which was reviewed by the National Academy of Sciences. We’re already seeing serious climate impacts — such as more extreme heat waves, droughts, and deluges — and additional impacts are “now unavoidable.” But just how bad future climate change is “will still largely be determined by choices society makes about emissions.”

            New Zealand has a vital role to play as an outlier and global leader in the war against climate change.

            New Zealand needs to become the first nation in the world to take the “war on coal” seriously. No other country is better placed to set an example.

            • Jenny

              “NO NEW COAL MINES”, means no new coal mines, period. No excuses or rationalisations will excuse any concessions on this Green Party democratically agreed bottom line policy issue.

              Russel Norman and Metiria Turei’s high handed statement that they have “No bottom lines” in their personal quest for lucrative but ultimately powerless cabinet positions, must be seen for what it is. The death knell of the Green Party as an electoral force.

              Dr Norman says. He has no bottom lines for post-election negotiations.

              “There’s no bottom lines” (Metiria Turei)

              What others say:

              Reasons for parties rejecting coalition arrangements include the need to retain a distinct identity and strengthen electoral support. These aspects often outweigh the advantages such as the possibility of cabinet positions and greater political influence, especially as a party can retain some leverage from an out of coalition arrangement that promises abstention or support on confidence and supply. This can confer support party status while avoiding the constraints of collective responsibility….

              …..Under the circumstances, given it is a comparatively young Green Party with developing ministerial experience, the decision to prefer coalition arrangements outside of government, has been a wise choice.

              Success may change strategy

              As the Green Party in New Zealand grows in experience and electoral success, it may choose to review this strategy in favour of a potentially more powerful role inside a government coalition.

              Along with such a role as a coalition partner, would come the less desirable constraints of collective responsibility.

              Suzan Phillips


              Suzan Phillips cites no international examples of Green Parties agreeing to enter into formal coalition agreements without bottom lines:

              Coalition Arrangements by the Greens in Germany

              The federal German Green Party was formed in 1980, but this was preceded by three years of Green political activism at local and state level and an alliance with other groups of grassroots environmental and social activists. (Frankland, Lucardie and Rihoux 2008).

              Suzan Phillips


              Just like in Germany hundreds possibly thousands of Green Party members and supporters are organising to stop the mining of the Denniston Plateau for coal for the export market by Australian owned Bathurst Resources.

              But unlike Germany’s antinuclear movement, there threatens to be a disconnect between the grass roots movement and the Green Party leadership, who if they go into coalition with out any bottom lines will, bound by Cabinet Collective responsibility, quite likely wind up on the opposing side to their membership. And would not be able to offer any parliamentary support to stopping Denniston. (Whether it be by lobbying or even making speeches in opposition to government policy)

              Just ask any Green Party member you know, ‘What do you think of this abandonment of “bottom lines” in exchange for cabinet positions?’ And you will get a clear idea of how this abandonment of bottom lines, affects the future support of the New Zealand Green Party as an electoral force.

              • Jenny

                New Zealand’s version of German Vice Chancelor, Joschka Fischer lays out his terms for selling out.

                Make me Deputy PM and no bottom lines

                Green Party co-leader Russel Norman wants to be deputy prime minister if Labour and Greens become government after this year’s election.

                Any cabinet formed after the September election should be proportional, and the deputy prime minister role would certainly be on the table, Dr Norman told The Nation today.

                “Obviously it depends on the size of the vote,” he said.

                Labour and Greens disagree on deep sea drilling, fracking, the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the decriminalisation of cannabis.

                But Dr Norman said the Greens have no bottom line in post-election negotiations.

                Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Norman-sets-sights-on-deputy-PM-role/tabid/1348/articleID/337889/Default.aspx#ixzz31HkLUca7

                Of course strictly speaking the last sentence is not true. Russel Norman’s bottom line is his bottom (and Turei’s bottom) on a highly placed seats in cabinet, (the most highly paid ones as possible), and in return they will agree to tie the parliamentary Green Party hand and foot to the Labour Party government chariot.

                No more campaign’s like Rod Donald’s famous campaign outside of government that successfully lobbied and pressured both Labour and National MPs against stiff opposition to agree to hold a binding referendum on MMP.

                You can forget any campaign to lobby government MPs on climate change, or the TPPA, or the GCSB or any other thing that the majority Labour cabinet votes down. Under the rules of cabinet responsibility Green MPs, (even those not in cabinet) will even be forbidden from making speeches in the house that criticise government policy, on the climate, on Deep Sea Oil,on Fracking, on the TPPA. Though they may be allowed (after going cap in hand and on gaining cabinet majority approval) to give tepid and tired old speeches in the house on decriminalising marijuana.

                History will record that was how the Green Party gave away their leadership in the House to the Labour Party and became a footnote of history and so ended the Green Party as an electoral force.

                (Deputy PM salary $300, thousand per annum)

  10. Chooky 11

    Trevor Mallard great on Morning Report on Judith Collins and personal profits from Oravida

    …her husband has 5 directorships …ranging from milk products to wines to New Zealand kauri

    ( incidentally this swamp kauri is a Maori taonga (treasure) to the Maori that is being stockpiled for personal profit ….and used by Maori in works of art and carving….Labour and Maori should be up in arms and putting a stop to this! …it is a disgrace!)

    Great to have Gunner Mallard the Mouth back! ….working and machine gunning for Labour on the Front Lines.!!!!…( good on Cunliffe for bringing him back….this is beginning to look like the WINNING Team 2014!)…

    • Tracey 11.1

      smearing has always been his forte… as long as he is kept on a leash and doesnt stray into stuff he can’t prove.

      • Murray Olsen 11.1.1

        I think he was quite good at closing schools as well. I see him as a total liability, who will get distracted and do or say something stupid again.

    • Plan B 11.2

      David Wong-Tung
      It will all come down to him- how he got the job, what skills he has that relate to the job. Has he been a director of a large company before? Is he an exporter, a Milk Industry insider? Why does he have that job. If the answers to these questions, questions that will be asked, do not look good then we all have a problem.

      • Tracey 11.2.1

        I saw he was director of the 5 Oravida named companies on the rgister yesterday, and a ceased director of a few struck off companies.

        I certainly don’t hold with the view of some that he holds those directorships for the fun of it, and not for decent remuneration, either direct or indirect. I also don’t accept his personal financial gain in that regard is unrelated to how well the companies perform.

        here is a little more about him

        David Wong−Tung is a barrister and proud resident of Counties−Manukau, living at Maraetai with wife Judith Collins MP for Papakura and son James. He has qualifications in law (LLB) and business (MBA) and is a Member of the New Zealand Institute of Directors. David has an extensive corporate legal and business governance background. He is a business mentor in New Zealand and the Pacific and a legal mentor in Auckland. David is a Council Member of the Manukau Institute of Technology, a member of Business Mentors News Zealand, Auckland District Law Society Friends Panel and a past member of the Auckland Medico−Legal society. His vision is for Counties−Manukau DHB to excel at frontline services, reducing waiting lists, delivering world−class healthcare and developing programmes and partnerships to improve the health and quality of life to the people of the district. Please rank the Citizens & Ratepayers candidates in your top 7.

        from when he ran (unsuccessfully) for counties manukau DHB under citizens and ratepayers banner.

        Apparently was a policeman in his younger days.

    • Chooky 11.3

      Swamp Kauri being stockpiled by Oravida for price gains

      Swamp Kauri a Taonga ( treasure) to the Maori and used for art

      Examples of Swamp Kauri Art



  11. wyndham 12

    In the great legal high debate and subsequent legislation to ban LH drugs, where has Peter Dunne been?

    Have I missed something but I can’t recall seeing/hearing any contribution from this minister. Tony Ryall seemed to be handling the whole issue for the Nacts.

  12. Tracey 13

    People who want to get into the documents on the Collins-border official-oravida meetings could go to Polity and read the timeline, with supporting documents. By reading the supporting documents you can make up your own mind and agree or disagree with RS’ analysis, but you will know why you think what you do.


  13. Bearded Git 14

    This from interest.co.nz today.

    “Also overnight, the latest Fonterra dairy auction results are out. They show another decline but only by -1.1% this time in US dollars. In NZ dollars however, the decline was -2.5%. That means, in NZ dollar terms, dairy prices at these auctions have fallen -27.5% since the beginning of the year.”

    Spells trouble for the economy.

    • greywarbler 14.1

      Bearded Git refers to economic news that spells trouble for the economy (and us all) from a drop in the price of white gold.

      Hey problems and solutions for politicians are covered here in ‘Trouble right here in River City, with a capital T, that rhymes with P and that spells Pool.!’

      This just the song to listen to when needing some political persiflage. And shows how the conniving political tools of promoting parties can act when trying to confuse the populace about what should be their real concerns, good governance, integrity and thoughtful practical far-seeing policies that benefit all.

  14. Puckish Rogue 15


    Don’t know what Jami-Lee Ross had for breakfast but he should have it more often also a fairly blunt message to Labour as well, wonder if they’ll heed it

    MAD doctrine at its finest

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1

      I hope your allegiance to Judith isn’t wavering.

      • Puckish Rogue 15.1.1


        Why would it be? All the left have is smears, lies and half-truths

        That a law and business meeting was removed from the trip itinerary so Collins could tour Oravida’s offices. Collins said the agenda was a draft and she did not ask for the meeting to be removed. She “totally and utterly” rejected the claim by MP Grant Robertson.

        Wheres his proof?

        That her family received “half a million dollars” for avoiding the meeting. The jibe, that referred to an alleged private director’s fees received by Wong Tung, got MP Trevor Mallard ejected from the House. Collins said he was “completely wrong”.

        Today, Cunliffe refused to comment on the veracity of Mallard’s claim.

        “Under the rules of privilege, what’s said in the House, stays in the House – I can’t really comment on that,” Cunliffe said on Firstline.

        Its Mallard so lets face it theres no point in asking for proof is there

        The left have nothing on Collins so Cunliffe can say theres more to come all he likes but all it’ll be is the same old same old

        • framu

          “and she did not ask for the meeting to be removed.”

          no your right – it was removed by her own office staff

        • One Anonymous Bloke

          “Why would it be?”

          Good man. What do you make of Key’s cowardice and disloyalty?

        • freedom

          “All the left have is smears, lies and half-truths”

          Puckish Rogue, have you actually looked through the documentation that has been supplied?

          It clearly shows the planning undertaken for the Oravida ‘meet and greet’, was focused on developing a visit whose sole purpose was to acknowledge and promote the private company.

          This fact (which is all the more interesting if you read Cabinet Rule 2.62) can, and does, all on its own, completely destroy the Minister’s statement that she just “popped in for a cup of tea on the way to the airport”.

          Then if you begin to wade through the MFAT documents about the dinner . . .

          Your comments do bring attention to something many here are possibly experiencing in the real world. There is an illness rife in our land. I do not solely blame the MSM or the internet for the widespread appearance of this horrible affliction. I think many people (it does seem prevalent with those who support National) have reached a personal limit of the bullshit they are willing to swallow and it has finally infected their brains and the toxins released render the organ to operate largely without functional logic. The condition usually manifests autonomously and appears to have triggers that are transmutable. How ever it arrives, there appears to be a widespread epidemic of what can only be called, Bizzarro Syndrome. An odd condition where yes means no and up is down and those who live with it must have a tough time at traffic lights.

          BS is a tough illness, instead of logically looking at the problem, or investigating other options, or actually doing anything too radical like objectively criticize the National Party, those who suffer BS spend much of their day walking around loudly shouting “n’ahh n’ahh nana n’aah I can’t hear you”. Maybe I am being unfair, maybe it is not as widespread as I suspect. We only have our own perception and our own experiences. Maybe I have BS and only think that National supporters seem to have become even more separated from reality than normal. If I do have BS then it comes as a relief, because that would mean the last few weeks have really been fantastic days of plenty and not the stress maxed pantry bare no work shit storms I thought they were. Looks around…. nope no BS here…. this is reality.

          In my past week I have had some viscous interactions with people I believe are not only suffering from but could be contagious carriers of BS. On line and in real life, discussion of the facts of this case often created instant irrational and vitriolic attacks (quite unlike anything I have ever witnessed in an election year.)

          Not attacks on the issues, not on Judith Collins but on supporters of the opposition! I am not talking the normal ‘but Labour did this and the Greens are idiots and Mana are just rent a mob …’ Oh no, these were epic histrionic failures of basic conversational logic. I had one person suggest to me that Labour had a mole in Judith Collins office who had planted the documents that MFAT released. My head is still spinning from that one! This person also thought that the Asset Sales paid off ALL our debt. I obviously was not holding out much hope they would understand the Collins issue, but still!

          I think we have a National outbreak of BS and there is no known cure, but steady doses of transparency and accountability do alleviate the symptoms. And Puckish Rogue, if you really really think Judith Collins is telling the truth, then please be careful at traffic lights. 🙂

          • Puckish Rogue

            “And Puckish Rogue, if you really really think Judith Collins is telling the truth, then please be careful at traffic lights”

            Politics is never about telling the truth its about getting your message out there and hoping the public believe it which is why Mallard and Robertson told lies (under parliamentary previledge of course) and hope the headline gets repeated
            Or that National fund raising is bad but Labour fundraising is ok:


            The ends justifies the means, the difference is the left try to take the high ground when they’re as bad as the right in the pursuit of power

            • Tracey

              have you read the documents?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Only cowards and the disloyal need to read the documents. Judith is strong. Trust in Judith.

        • Tracey

          highest ethical standards.

          start with

          i dropped in for acup of tea on the way to the airport, and then read the documents and then come back and comment. do your own thinking, free of the manipulation of collins’ good friend cameron slater.

    • Rodel 15.2

      Do you really expect any of us to waste time looking at wailoil on your recommendation. Please make an effort to at least a semblance of thought.

    • Murray Olsen 15.3

      So Jami-Lee Ross said “To be lectured by Winston Peters about corruption is like being lectured by a lady of the night about abstinence.”?? What the hell does that even mean? Does he mean Winston is as corrupt as a lady of the night is abstinent? Is English this guy’s first language?

      The rest is just empty threats. They’ve been going on about Cunliffe’s trust for ages. No one cares except for the avid screen lickers who hang off Slug Boy’s every word. If they had anything else they’d be using it. They’ll go down another 6% in the coming week. Good.

  15. greywarbler 16

    A point made by Kathryn Ryan this morning – that education is a privilege in this country (making the point after talking about the abduction of Nigerian schoolgirls). It is interesting how the discourse has changed. Education used to be an essential for a thriving, forward-looking country as NZ thought it was. Now the thought that comes to mind is that we are lucky to have it compared to other countries in a worse state. Seems a downward move in our travel as a developed country.

    Other important and relevant news – headings from Radionz page. (You might consider that being updated on the latest episode from the South African Piss stories show is relevant, I couldn’t agree.)


    Witness feared Pistorius would kill himself ( 3′ 34″ )
    08:44 Oscar Pistorius’ three nearest neighbours have been in court today, saying they
    heard a man crying loudly on the night the athlete shot his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp.

    Farmers get employment rules message
    Federated Farmers says there are signs that farmers may be getting the message about complying with the employment laws in the way they pay their staff and do the paperwork.

    World Bank predicts more Kauri bonds
    One of the biggest global issuers of New Zealand dollar denominated debt, or Kauris, the World Bank, says interest in the Kauri market from central banks is growing, particularly in Asia.

    (I hope these wheelers are contributing high and wide to the Save the Kauri fund. Our endangered tree, a motif of NZ. It is ironic to see its name being used as meaning sound, sturdy, reliable, strong etc. for money-shakers to view in their financial kaleidoscopes.)

    • greywarbler 16.1

      Further on Kauri bonds which seem to be an IFC confection. I don’t understand about them but they are a heck of a driver on our economy so we all should know apparently.

      This is link –
      The International Finance Corporation (IFC) is part of the World Bank group which focuses on private sector lending and investment in emerging markets.
      The IFC entered the Kauri market in 2007, and has issued bonds every year except 2008….

      The Reserve Bank said in its March Monetary Policy Statement that issuance of Kauris was strong at $2.3 billion for the first two months of 2014, more than $5 billion tha[t]n was issued for the whole of last year.

      Because the issuance of Kauris requires buying the local currency, the more issues there are, the more upward pressure there is on the kiwi dollar.

      IFC head of funding Ben Powell said the reason it loved the Kauri market was that there was consistent demand for them in New Zealand.
      He said the largest investor was the banks, then some of the asset managers and insurance companies.
      “We don’t have the same real depth in terms of some of the asset managers that are active in Aussie dollars, but you do have that consistent appetite from the banks in New Zealand, I would say that’s the core investor base for us and has been since we started issuing.”

      Mr Powell said there has been growing interest from central banks, particularly Asian central banks, which view New Zealand as having a strong currency and a fiscally prudent conservative government.

      • Colonial Viper 16.1.1

        We’re the obedient well trained pet of international financiers and money managers, lucky us.

        BTW the big aussie banks by Kauris using the massively excess funds they suck out of Kiwi workers through their usury and high bank fees.

  16. veutoviper 17

    Looking for a job?

    The Internet Party has apparently placed job ads for a new Prime Minister in the Herald and DomPost this morning.

    A taste – “New Zealand is looking for an honest, hard-working, socially responsible individual who will put the welfare of Kiwis before foreign powers or former school chums.”


    They are now calling for applications for members to run as candidates as discussed in the Scoop press release. KDC has tweeted that candidates will be paid MP salaries even before they are elected.

    • Tracey 17.1

      ian fletcher says the gcsb isnt spying on us. thats a relief.

      • veutoviper 17.1.1

        LOL! Tui Ad time?

        • Tracey

          “we dont do that stuff” ian fletcher 2014 (not a friend of the pm, but the brother of the pms friend)

          • Colonial Viper

            The outright lying that these complicit little apparatchiks perform in order to secure their own positions and that of the power structures they serve is breathtaking.

            In the US, the NSA still regularly states that they do not conduct any mass surveillance of US citizens. Of course they have their own special definitions of each of the words they use (eg, they might record and store everyone’s email in perpetuity but that doesn’t count as “surveillance” in their twisted little minds because they haven’t quite gotten round to looking at it yet).

  17. logie97 18

    We know who the directors of Oravida are.
    Do we know who the shareholders might be?

  18. riffer 19

    Between 600 and 800 people in New Zealand have been estimated to die each year from alcohol-related causes (Berl 2009; Connor et al, 2013).

    Tobacco use is the leading cause of preventable death in New Zealand, accounting for around 4300 to 4600 deaths per year (Peto, R., Lopez, A., et al. (2000). Mortality from Smoking in Developed Countries 1950 – 2000: Indirect estimates from national vital statistics. New York: Oxford University Press.)

    At least one death has been linked to overdose of synthetic cannabinoids and in Colorado three deaths in September 2013 have been investigated for being linked to synthetic cannabinoids. In December 2012, after two weeks of daily synthetic cannabis use, a 17-year old girl suffered multiple strokes and subsequent brain damage, leaving her blind and paralyzed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_cannabis)

    and in a startling example of an orchestrated media coverup I am unable to find information about deaths in New Zealand due to genuine cannabis, but surely there must be at least one – I’d speculate at least one person has gotten wasted and wrecked their car.

    [lprent: Don’t dump comments in any old post. Drop them where the post is talking about the topic or use OpenMike. Moved this one to OpenMike. ]

    • JAK 19.1

      In 1988 the WHO International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) declared alcohol a carcinogen.

      There is a dose/response relationship between alcohol consumption and certain cancers.

      “A causal relationship exists between alcohol consumption and cancers of the mouth, pharynx, larynx, oesophagus, colon and rectum, liver and female breast”

      “A significant relationship also exists between alcohol consumption and pancreatic cancer”

      “Links have also been made between alcohol consumption and leukemia, multiple myeloma, and cancers of the cervix, vulva, vagina and skin, but fewer studies have looked at these relationships and more research is needed to establish a confirmed association.”

      If the articles you mention do not take cancer deaths into account, the 600 to 800 deaths a year in New Zealand from alcohol-related causes are likely to be an underestimate.

      Ref; http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/824237

  19. Treetop 20

    Does anyone know whether or not the taking of synthetic cannabis can be covered by ACC?

    The professor who first discovered the science behind synthetic cannabis was direct about the harm that is causes, addiction, unintentional suicide, psychosis, being bullet proof and withdrawal symptoms. Last night on Campbell Live the professor said that synthetic cannabis is drenched in acetone and the contents and the strength of the product differs. He was not against legalising cannabis.

    No matter what anyone does to excess e.g. drugs, alcohol, gambling, the thing is, that everyday life is just not doing it for them and the initial problem which caused its use becomes secondary to the control that drugs, alcohol or gambling has over them.

    • Colonial Viper 20.1

      Does anyone know whether or not the taking of synthetic cannabis can be covered by ACC?

      You’ll have to phrase the question a bit better – why do you think there is any accident injury in the activity described by that sentence?

      • Treetop 20.1.1

        The product (synthetic cannabis) was allowed to be sold legally without the effects of the drug being made known to those who were going to consume it.

        ACC covers people who were exposed to asbestos.

        Cigarette packets have a health warning.

        The contents of synthetic cannabis are not listed.

        Synthetic cannabis has been made illegal because of the adverse effects.

  20. amirite 21

    Media commentator and author Dr Gavin Ellis decries the state of our journalistic media, stating that the media are only serving the market, not the society as they were meant to.


    • blue leopard 21.1

      Thanks for the link, Amrite, it is an astute article.

      • Colonial Viper 21.1.1

        By Chris Hedges – the Hedonists of Power

        Hedges has a slightly different viewpoint – it’s not that these journalists and media organisations are “serving the market” it is that they love being close to (and courtiers of) the wealthy power elite.

        No journalist has a comfortable, cozy relationship with the powerful. No journalist believes that acting as a conduit, or a stenographer, for the powerful is a primary part of his or her calling. Those in power fear and dislike real journalists. Ask Seymour Hersh and Amy Goodman how often Bush or Cheney has invited them to dinner at the White House or offered them an interview.

        All governments lie, as I.F. Stone pointed out, and it is the job of the journalist to do the hard, tedious reporting to shine a light on these lies. It is the job of courtiers, those on television playing the role of journalists, to feed off the scraps tossed to them by the powerful and never question the system. In the slang of the profession, these television courtiers are “throats.” These courtiers, including the late Tim Russert, never gave a voice to credible critics in the buildup to the war against Iraq. They were too busy playing their roles as red-blooded American patriots. They never fought back in their public forums against the steady erosion of our civil liberties and the trashing of our Constitution. These courtiers blindly accept the administration’s current propaganda to justify an attack on Iran. They parrot this propaganda. They dare not defy the corporate state. The corporations that employ them make them famous and rich. It is their Faustian pact.


  21. greywarbler 22

    Notable news items on Radionz near high noon.

    Heard, but I can’t see listed as news item, is comment from Graeme Wheeler Governor of our Reserve bank. This excerpt on dairy farm indebtedness is from comment linked.
    Dairy farmer indebtedness

    Dairy debt almost trebled over the past decade, and currently stands at $32 billion. It is concentrated among a small proportion of highly leveraged farms with around half of the dairy debt being held by only 10 percent of dairy farmers. Strong export earnings saw the sector’s debt to income ratio improve between 2010 and 2012, although for the decade as a whole this ratio tracked steadily upward (figure 10).

    Also –
    Doug Avery is in big demand on the rural speaking circuit in New Zealand, with his story of how he and his family rescued their farm from collapse after discovering the drought resistant powers of lucerne.

    How come one guy with personal experience is being lauded when we have had researchers and people interested in grassland and fodder working and learning about it all for many decades? Are farmers unable to absorb new ideas until they are forced to by utter privation?

    And Invermay being shifted around like a chess piece, is that an example of the lip service that this country’s agri business leaders and dealers pay to the ‘ivory tower’ wiseguys of farming research? These wiseguys should be listened to with bated breath and be given every chance to talk to keen farmers who can then be helped to implement their ideas. They should be swamped with farmer groupies when they come to town, and ferried in open limousines to rural areas to be feted and distribute their valuable information. But has that happened? Way down south there is the use of some clever topographical information that has helped them a lot. I’m a townie interested in our rural lifeblood, so can’t convey it all off the top of my head. But it’s an example of modern farming and I think it is being done by real farmers on the land, not rich bums sitting at a desk pressing buttons and making financial deals as their first interest.



    Important last – changes in Radionz.
    From today, the number of stories appearing on the RNZ website home page will nearly triple, and over time the front page will showcase the depth and breadth of material produced by RNZ staff every day – such as extensive political, business and regional reporting and the comprehensive Maori news coverage provided by our in-house Te Manu Korihi team.

    So listen and support our nation’s radio, and keep it close to our hearts and minds.
    Or we might lose it or lose its integrity and true value and end up with mostly cutesy stories, recipes, chirpy middle class stylesetters, crime, disasters, tragedies, and victims families telling us their sad tales while the cycle of damage and societal deterioration in the background repeats.

    • Colonial Viper 22.1

      How come one guy with personal experience is being lauded when we have had researchers and people interested in grassland and fodder working and learning about it all for many decades? Are farmers unable to absorb new ideas until they are forced to by utter privation?

      The human/personal/emotional angle is critical for a major speaker at a conference event.

      Also, farmers on the whole absorb new ideas very well – just look at how farming methods and emphasis has changed since the 80’s. Mind you, not all those changes have necessarily been in the wider interests of society.

  22. Colonial Viper 23

    Microscopic Fukushima nuclear core fragments found in Europe – via North America

    Read and weep…highly radioactive hot particles from Fukushima have spread throughout the northern hemisphere.


  23. Philj 24

    Radio New Zealand’s standards are dropping fast. I do not trust it as I used to. Guyon hasn’t helped with slippery technique and a lean. Frozen funding for the last five years has started to show. Just how this announcement is to be paid for, I can only guess. Cut and paste from spin doctors I suppose.

    • grumpy 24.1

      Guyon was pretty good this morning though with Robertson. Blowing apart Mallards made up accusations and really putting the heat on Robertson about Cunliffe’s secret trust and anonymous donors. I think things are looking up at RNZ. Reduced Robertson to a gibbering wreck.

      • Tracey 24.1.1

        “… a poverty of responsibility… a poverty of truth” from the expert, j collins 2002

        its ok cos mallard said collins family had received 500k from oriavida but hasnt shown the proof – grumpy on “highest ethical standards” 2014

      • Rodel 24.1.2

        I think you are wrong
        or bulshi**in’g as trolls do.
        I’d like to say’ nice try but it’s not even that.

  24. Mary 25

    Cunliffe’s questions in the House were hopeless yesterday and this afternoon. He fills them with vitriol for the government which is so easy to bat away. Ministers don’t need to answer them because they aren’t really questions (which Carter then without exception agrees with the government on) but the point is that Cunliffe loses opportunity after opportunity to skewer Key and co by not asking questions that demand an answer. Silly stuff, really.

    • grumpy 25.1

      Not only that but the were turned onto him. Norman did no better. I thought the Speaker was very tough on National.

      • Colonial Viper 25.1.1

        Meanwhile, in non-parallel universe NZ,

      • Tracey 25.1.2

        he showed some testicles but then couldnt hide his smile each time national spoke. if he had chucked key it could be said he was impartial.

        no wonder they shipped lockwood off.

    • greywarbler 25.2

      I haven’t heard your example but I have noticed the style that you find fault with and it’s a fact that it comes across badly and just wastes time. It is self indulgent virtual wrestling for dominance, and I remember even Helen Clark indulged.

      I thought how galling it is for them to have to defend themselves all the time. But it has to be done yet quickly enough so as not to allow any vestige of rightness in listener’s minds, and to leave time to get on with the message for the day, said two or three different ways with brief sidemoves into expected cost and the benefit of it serving voters needs.

  25. aerobubble 26

    Bill English takes credit for low interest rates, and by extension GFC!

    Key says growth is higher than anywhere, but ignores printing of money that is causing the growth.

    Housing is now on the agenda, took Key two terms to get around to it. What did he have to say?
    That Labour left it in a mess. When will Key’s policies kick it? decades from now.

    Incompetent buggers.

    • aerobubble 26.1

      Key keeps rubbing open sore of Pike River, now claims Cunliffe is using the issue, as Key has spent money up the drift. Why is Key engaging the issue, because he knows the neo-liberals in National, Willianson and Collins, are implicated ideologically in the lack of regulation that led to the safety vacuum, and still nobody has been held accountable. National infighting is intensifying, as Brownlee begs Robinson to reveal the whole report, that exposes Collins-Orivida and led to her resignation.

  26. greywarbler 27

    I saw somewhere about Fox television viewers have been shown to know less than those who don’t watch any news. Notably Fox leaves both Republicans and Democrats equally dopey. One stat was that 30% of fox viewers didn’t believe in climate change science. Quite low if you are extremely prejudiced against Information-lite, and quite high if you still had illusions that analytical thought was still alive out there.


  27. Scott1 29

    Lombard finance directors got their sentence reduced this is bread an butter issue for labour.

    Simple argument is that directors and those being paid a lot of money to run companies have responsibilities that come with that, it isn’t good enough to just say, “woops I’m sorry I mislead you.. Honest mistake, I was just trying so hard to make the company do well that I just didn’t do my job properly”

    If they didn’t know how to do the job properly they shouldn’t have taken money to do it.

  28. ianmac 30

    Gary Morgan Poll: Labour/ Greens (45.5%) regain lead over National (42.5%) as scandal engulfs the National Party – Maurice Williamson resigns his portfolios and while Justice Minister Judith Collins takes a few days leave.
    Support has improved considerably for the Opposition with the Labour Party up 2.5% to 31%, the Greens up 3% to 14.5%, New Zealand First 6% (up 0.5%), Mana Party 1% (unchanged). Support for the Internet Party is now at a record high 1.5% (up 0.5%), seemingly at the expense of the Conservative Party of NZ 0.5% (down 1.5%).

    Hope it lasts!

    • ianmac 30.1

      AndThe latest NZ Roy Morgan Government Confidence Rating has fallen to 135.5pts (down 7.5pts) with 62% (down 3%) of New Zealanders saying New Zealand is ‘heading in the right direction’ compared to 26.5% (up 4.5%) that say New Zealand is ‘heading in the wrong direction’.

      • karol 30.1.1


        Poll was conducted April 24 to May 4. Gary Morgan blames Nats drop on Wiliamson & Collins. I reckon that’s too recent to have much of an impact on any one poll.

      • mickysavage 30.1.2

        Results are out


        Latest Roy Morgan

        And although the poll bounces around and one should always be careful I would hazard a couple of comments that the Royal Tour effect has worn off and the sleaze is starting to have an effect.


    • Bad for National, a bit of a bounce back for Labour but still not flash for them. The public don’t seem happy with either, Labour still – 33% has been their highest this year in the first poll of the year, and National again – two polls ago in March they were 43%, then up to 48.5 and now down to 42.5%.

      The smaller parties benefit except for Conservatives.

      It would be interesting if they had an option “Pissed off with all”.

      • mickysavage 30.2.1

        Gee Pete you don’t understand this MMP stuff do you.

        • Pete George

          Are you happy with where Labour have been in the polls this year?
          Would you be happy with a cabinet three fifths Labour MPs?

          Labour 31 to Green+NZ First+Mana 21.5
          If you add Internet Party that’s 31 to 24.

          Yeah, I understand MMP. Do you understand the implications of that Greg?

    • veutoviper 30.3

      That is an interesting result – and hope it lasts.

      The last RM covered the two weeks 31 March to 13 April (including the Royal visit) so National’s 6% drop from 48.5% in that poll to 42.5% in this one shows that the halo effect did not last long.

      This latest poll (April 21 to May 4) also only covers a small portion timewise of Williamson’s resignation and the reignition of the Collins Oravida saga so the full impact of these would not yet show, as Karol suggests at 30.1.1.

      But, on the other side of the ledger, it does cover the earlier resignation of Shane Jones so the fact that Labour has risen 2.5% suggests that this has not had a big impact.

      It is interesting that the RM wording includes NZF in the left side of the ledger, ie

      Support has improved considerably for the Opposition with the Labour Party up 2.5% to 31%, the Greens up 3% to 14.5%, New Zealand First 6% (up 0.5%), Mana Party 1% (unchanged).

  29. A late night observation, safe here at the bottom of the world, for those that like a bit of sqeamish to go with the tragedy unfolding before bed.

    Eurovision Song Contest 2014 – The humanity

    The US should retaliate with a boy band, Hannah Montana and Justin Beiber, even though he’s Canadian, and GB should unleash the mother of all hell fury in the form of a take that one direction super group and then have a cup of tea on Beachy head.

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